Gilgo Beach Killer Plea: Eric Faddis Breaks It Down Live

0:00This is Hidden Tillers Live with Tony Bruski and Robin Dree. A man charge, the allegedly killing seven women across nearly two decades on Long Island is now expected to walk into a courtroom and plead guilty. After almost three years of maintaining his innocence after his defense fought to throw out DNA, split the case in a separate trials, dismiss a murder charge for insufficient evidence and point the finger at another convicted killer Rex Hewerman reportedly has decided to stop fighting. The question nobody can stop asking is, why now? And whether this was always inevitable or whether the prosecution boxed him into a corner that he couldn't think his way out of, joining me to discuss this new development in this horrific case, Eric Fattis, former prosecutor defense attorney, and of course my co-host

1:03Robyn Drake, retired FBI special agency for the counterintelligence behavioral analysis program for the FBI. Eric, let's start here, a man stands before court for nearly three years, saying he did not do this, and then reportedly decides to plead guilty to seven murders from someone who's sat on both sides of this Eric, what exactly is happening inside of those conversations between Rex and his attorney that seems to have brought us to this? Sure, Tony, from the outset with a client, you kind of have a strategic plan. You're kind of like, okay, we're going to explore these defenses. We're going to assert these potential constitutional violations. We're going to file these motions, and we're going to try to improve your legal position. But as the trial is looming, and as it gets closer, reality starts to really kick you, and the client hopefully kind of appreciates their exposure at that juncture, and it's not uncommon for plea agreements to happen.

2:06Once trial is getting closer and people start to get freaked out. Eric, what do you think he's pleading for on this one? I guess that's the huge question. There's so many questions this one, but inside New York, no death penalty, so it's not like the coberger case where they're trying to leverage life for coberger with a plea deal, so that's not in it. The son of Sam Law, I've researched it, but you probably know this better than me, so I'm curious about your take on whether this impacted or not. So son of Sam Law says that he cannot profit from any proceeds from his story. But his family can't according to the law, but it really depends on what the judge says. Is that true? I mean, how's what do you think was the motivation? Yeah, good question. There could be certain provisions included within a plea agreement whereby Huroman could not benefit in some form or fashion from selling his story to HBO or something like that. But yeah, what is his incentive? Because there's not death on the table, and usually the step down from that is life without

3:07the possibility of parole. I can't imagine that they're offering some sort of cap on prison time, like a cap of 40 years or something, but then again, you know, he might just kind of be done and ready to resolve this and sort of see the writing on the wall, but what are the benefits he might be trying to seek? Those are a little bit unclear. I don't know if it's prison placement. I don't know if it's- Is that on the table? You think so? Sometimes it is and sometimes it's not. Does the judge have the ability or does the court have the ability to do prison placement? It usually depends on the jurisdiction, oftentimes not, oftentimes it's up to the Bureau of prisons. But there are certain things that can be written in to a plea agreement that might be valuable to Rex. And so perhaps those are being negotiated present. I mean, even if they do have some sort of initial set of like, okay, we're going to send you off to this prison here. Isn't that ultimately always up to the Bureau of Prisons at the end of the day?

4:10I mean, like, okay, well, initially we'll send you here. Couldn't that just switch at any moment in time? Did they- I mean, maybe I'm completely off on this, but I don't believe that, you know, at some point in time, they were like, well, no, we can't move this prisoner because of the part of the plea agreement says he's going to be housed here indefinitely. Is that ever part of it? You bring up a good point because usually the court does not have jurisdiction over the Bureau of Prisons. So we can't tell the prison what to do. It can make a recommendation. Yeah, it can say, hey, you know, it's the court's hope that that the Bureau of Prisons, you know, accommodates what was listed in the plea agreement. But yeah, that's not set in stone and it's not something that's really enforceable. It's really aspirational. People roll the dice all the time when it comes to this sort of stuff, especially when it comes to like, proper agreements and things like that, where they're going to sit there. And I will give you your information that you need. And at the end of the day, I'm going to get this out of it. I'm not going to be prosecuted or, you know, like we saw in the example of the, the

5:13opair affair recently where everyone thought, oh, well, she's just going to go back to her country of origin after that. Nope. Surprise. You get 10 years because there wasn't, it wasn't completely in stone. It was suggested, maybe you'll get this. But at the end of the day, someone can still make a decision. That's a strong suggestion and suggestions aren't necessarily set in stone. Do you think he is, is he, is this where he's at where he's at this big of a, of a, of a disadvantage where it's, it's like, well, I'm going to hope that maybe I get a good suggestion here and have little to no control over anything. Is this how little control this man has left and is this him trying to grasp at that last little hair of it, pardon the pun? You know, that very well could be in, and Tony, as you would rob and know, there are other killings within this vicinity over the course of time for which Rex Veroman was suspected. And so perhaps there's something like, I'm just speculating, but if he, you know, cops

6:17to these seven orders, if that's what the believe room it looks like, then he could somehow have immunity from the additional suspected killings. You know, is that really a tangible benefit for him? I don't know, but it's an optics benefit, may help his family in some form or fashion, may reduce potential restitution that he and his family would have to pay. So there are some bargaining chips, but they're very small. You know, that'll be really interesting, Eric, because so if you're going down the road of what a typical, I don't know if you want to use a word, typical serial killer is a lot of them are about that, you know, that large narcissistic sociopathic grandiosity, always looking for more, you know, BTK is a great example, grandiosity, look at me, I'm the best, I did this, this, this, I really wonder if that was part of that calculation that mind of his is like, all right, I'm not going to get away with this. If I get a plea deal and I don't have to be charged more, I can try to get a suggestion

7:19of where I get to live, and my family gets the profit from the stories, if he's, if he feels compelled to put out more, if his driving focus is that grandiosity and being like the best at this, that might have played into what I wonder, just like he feels at liberty then to start trickling and exposing this, this, this, and this, that's an interesting take on it. I wonder if that'll play into it, it'll be interesting. And also, when you think the victim's families were thinking about this, are that you think they're part of this discussion, this dialogue, and what do you think the impact of them's going to be from your experience? Yeah, that ego piece could very well be a part of it, you know, maybe there's some subjective perverse benefit to him in saying that, hey, you caught me for these ones, but I know in my mind, you didn't catch me for these other ones. I'm not saying he's necessarily did the other killings, but there's a strong suspicion. So, and then in terms of the victim's families, yeah, they're going to, they buy law, typically have to be involved

8:22in the plea negotiation process, have to receive notice of it, have to have an opportunity to give their position on what the plea offer might be. What do you think this is going to be? With, with this many potential homicides, I can't fathom the prosecutor doing anything, life without the possibility of parole, and like I said, maybe there are some minor concessions that they could give him if he's willing to come to them. Right. Thanks. We're trying to figure out, you know, what inspired him to take this route. We got the housing area, you know, maybe there's something with that. Do you think, do you think any of this comes down to his family? Do you think there's, there's any emotional lever here that he has decided to pull that, that this somehow is, is to protect his family from going through this, this trial,

9:26and in all that they're going to be drugged through, and all the extra exposure that they're going to face. Do you think it ended up being a conversation? Because apparently, Osas still been visiting him in prison. I mean, in the, the doc that was made more than a year ago, and the doc, she said that she still, you called him his hero. I have no idea what Osas opinion of him is today, and it could easily have changed within the course of a year. But I do wonder if, if there's something there of, he's doing this, you know, on the surface for them, but, but maybe at the end, it's more so it will prevent a trial and it will prevent them maybe, maybe even her, I don't know, from possibly exposing Rex for other crimes. I mean, I'm wondering if there's something there, and I'm not accusing Osas of committing any crimes or anything of that nature, but it does seem like she is a bit of a vulnerability to him. And because whether she knows it or not, she knows more about Rex than most people do,

10:26and, and she would be able to connect some dots and expose him probably in ways that she's not even aware that she'd be exposing him, but he is. And I'm wondering if this, there's something there that there was a lever and it makes strategic sense for him. Maybe he was pressured into confessing by her to not be put through this. And he's, he's, he's rolling the dice going, my odds are better if they'll keep her shut up more. And her less in the spotlight if we just kind of get this stuff pushed through and wrapped up. Tony, that's kind of where my head went, too, because like you said, the wife, Osas, has been kind of by his side, at least it is certainly early on, or at least supportive, and not something we often see in cases like this. And so, yeah, was, was it some sort of way to protect the family from, from this crucible of trial? You know, they've already had to deal with so, so much due to Rex's alleged actions. But over time,

11:27five, 10 years from now, that can blow over. However, if there isn't nationally publicized multi week trial, multi month trial, potentially, that goes into the nauseating details of everything Rex did. And that could reflect on the family. Maybe he wants to protect them from that. Maybe he's even vying for some kind of immunity for his family. If, if there is any sort of suspicions in terms of knowledge or complicity or something else. Yeah, I tell you, it's so interesting, isn't it? Because, I mean, you have these incredibly psychopathic serial killers, which typically don't have empathy, they feign empathy, so they can victimize people, and a lot of them are just pure actors. But then, but you see these behaviors like BTK, I know we keep bringing up because there's so much similarities here. You really wonder, is there a true bond with the human beings in his life, especially because, you know, it's here, point Eric, the children. You know, maybe he doesn't want his daughter and his son exposed to the true horrors of everything he did because of that. I wonder if that did weigh on him at all when making that decision. Yeah, very well could be,

12:31I mean, these people are human now, you know, barely. But they still have at least the theoretical capacity for those emotions. You know, Robin, you say, you know, he does he have a bond there with his kids and his wife or his ex-wife and, you know, that there's a bond, but what is that bond? Yes, it is. Is it a fool or, yeah, is it, is it a lever that he can pull? Is it, is it, is it a transactional bond? Because a lot of people have bonds that on the surface to the rest of us who don't have transactional bonds and the bonds are there because we genuinely care and we have love and relationships that are built on, on those, you know, tenants of life and, and meaning that, that, that build true, strong relationships and there's people who have surface bonds that are built on transaction. And, and I think sometimes those folks who live in a world in a life where their relationships are solely based on transaction, they don't even contemplate a deeper meeting.

13:32They think everybody works on transaction. And, and I'm wondering if that's part of it, if like I was saying, if there is a transactional detail to that relationship with his family that somehow it, it works to his advantage to, to make this specific move. The other aspect of this that I, I come to wonder about is kind of the coberger aspect of it. Why did coberger do this at the very last minute to at the 11th hour? I mean, basically the evidence was there. He was going to be crucified and the mask was going to not only slip. It was going to be ripped off and exposed whether he liked it or not. And I'm wondering if there's an aspect to Rex Hirman like that too, where I mean, this was a very, very secretive man. At least nobody was, was digging deep enough for the majority of his existence. And I'm wondering if all those secrets that he spent decades trying to protect. I mean, a lot of them have already been revealed. But there we're good, no, we're going to get in there deep if this went to trial every little aspect, every piece of dust,

14:38all of it is going to come out and exposure to personalities like this. And it's hard to read him completely in his personality type. But if he is anywhere along the dark triad and has some of the narcissism going on there, that removal of the mask is like kryptonite. That's the worst possible thing. You really want them to feel shame or whatever it is that makes them feel bad. That would be the way to do it. And if you're going to have this done seven times over in a courtroom for seven different victims, I wonder if his just, if his give a shit just kind of got to a point of like, I don't want, I can't take that. That's too much. Yeah. I agree with you, Tony, to I'm highly skeptical as well of him using, and they might even say it or they'll put a release like he's doing it for his family. But I seriously doubt he has capacity to do it because like you said, that transactional. And also with these serial killers, I mean, that imagery that they do

15:39for their own wacky sexual satisfaction of their trophies and how they align them in placement woods or whatever they're doing, to have that no longer secret, it kind of burst that bubble of theirs in their mind and that fantasy world they're living out. And so if it all gets exposed, he's left with nothing going to do. So I think that's probably more likely like like you and Eric were saying. Yeah. And you know, you look at briefly the like the zodiac killer, for example, that person got off on the fact that he's not that they weren't going to be found out. You're not going to learn the details of what they're doing. You're not going to, you're not going to get into the inner workings of that. And when that is exposed as creative chaos, if I said in the comments, that that's rips the control from Rex Herman too. This could be a way that he still maintains control over those details. I mean, yeah, I mean, that's the other aspect. I mean, this is, I'm sorry, Robin, it's clearly it's a lever of control that he's trying to pull because he has

16:40none and the extreme level of control that this guy operated under. I mean, I mean, it was almost comically bad where he like literally writing notes, like take the head, cut off the tag, like you if you're you're doing this, you really need notes to remind you're like, Oh, shoot, I forgot, I was supposed to take the head, turn it. If you only wrote a name down part of the fantasy, if only that was on notes, I'll put a post it about it next time. And he does. And he does. There's another element to this. The judge still has to accept the plea. Eric talk about this. This is like a legal end of this. What would it, what would make the judge rejected? Can he reject it? Is that a real possibility or is that just a formality at this point? Oh, it's definitely a real possibility. And I've seen countless pleas rejected by judges. You know, judges usually have substantial discretion in that Tony. And it's kind of like does the judge think this is fair? Does the judge think this is just under the circumstances? Now oftentimes

17:43the judge will go along with a mutually agreed upon plea agreement, especially if the victim's families are in favor. But for some reason, if the victim's family is presented at court during the plea hearing and said, Hey, this is not fair. It needs to be more serious in some fashion. The judge could say, Hey, we've got, you know, a multiplicity of killings over the course of decades. And, you know, these concessions or whatever is built into the plea that my benefit racks just might not want that. So it could be rejected. Yeah, is that typically what sues the lever of influence on the judge is families or is it something else about whether to accept or not accept it? You know, in your experience, what is the driving most of the driving factor? The family's position plays a huge role. And, you know, the judges want to do their best to do right by these victims families. So that could absolutely, that's usually the driving factor when a plea is rejected. If he wants to plead guilty here, the judge can obviously reject the

18:45terms that they come to and say, Nope, here's what it is. There are no concessions for him. It's exactly what I'm going to say. It's going to be take it or leave it. And Rex could take it or leave it. He can't necessarily force a trial to take place if Rex is going to plead guilty. I guess only if Rex were to not agree to whatever the plea agreement would be, would be what would force a trial, correct? Yeah, yeah, that's correct. If, yeah, if Rex didn't agree to it, he would still have his right to a trial and he could always change his mind, even if there is a criminal place. Yeah, you know, the things, things could change. So many interesting angles to this, just in your opinion, do you, do you see a world here where, where the judge may reject whatever, whatever comes down the line? I mean, number one, the prosecutors would, you know, be kind of rolling the dice a little bit if they're going to bring something to a judge that they think may be rejected. I'm going to think they're probably going to bring something

19:45that they're pretty confident in would be agreed upon to. What didn't they? Yeah, absolutely. You always consider that as a prosecutor. You're like, if I extend this plea offer, it's meaningless if the judge doesn't agree to it. And so you've got to have that forward thinking of like, hey, is the judge going to view this as acceptable? So I wouldn't just debate that. But if there is any cap on prison, for example, even like 40 years, like up to 40 years in prison, I wouldn't be surprised if a judge looks at that and says, that's too lenient, things can happen in prison. You know, sentences can be reduced. He might get out later. I'm not going to accept that. I wouldn't be surprised if a judge showed such a position. That's interesting. Your thoughts on the comment section on Substack in YouTube is we continue to break down Rex Hiramon and his supposed plea deal that has not yet taken place. But we are in anticipation of Substack in YouTube. The links are in the description to continue the conversation there.

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