GGACP Rewind: Episode #24: Roger Corman

0:00Okay, if you like Glow Budget B-movies about outlaw biker gangs, giant sea serpents, man-eating plants, women in prison, teenage cavemen, loads of violence, and hot girls in skimpy clothing, or no clothing at all. And if you don't like that, I don't want to know you. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome genuine Hollywood legend, the one the only Roger Korman. Well, that was a pretty subtle introduction. I hope I can keep up with that level of intellectual as a writer. Now, you have introduced some of the biggest names, and if someone doesn't know who you are

1:08and I'd be ashamed if they didn't, you have introduced two-show business, Francis Ford Coppola, Martin Scorsese, you're on Howard. Peter Bogdanovich, Jonathan Demi, Joe Dante, James Cameron, Robert Town, Jack Nicholson, Peter Fonder, Bruce Stern, Dennis Hoppe, Natalya Shire, Sanger Bullock, and Robert De Niro. One or two others, but I think we'll settle for those for the moment. Now, how did you first get into movie making? It started when I was an engineering student at Stanford, and I was writing for the Stanford Daily, and I found out the critics for the Daily got free passes to all the theaters in Toronto, so I thought I like to see pictures for not paying, and so I wrote a couple

2:12sample reviews. They took me on as a critic, and then I started to really examine and analyze the films in order to write the reviews, and I essentially became hooked. I thought this is much more fascinating than I realized just watching films casually, and I decided to move from engineering to filmmaking. And you were reading scripts at one point? Yes, I was a story analyst at 20th Century Fox, which is a sort of overblown way of just saying a reader. And one movie that you helped get made was the gunfighter starring Gregory Peck. Yes. And so what happened to you there that sourd you on that job? Well, what happened with the story editor said, Roger, you knocked every project we've

3:17sent you to analyze, and I said, well, I'm the youngest guy in the department, and the reason I knock him is because they're no good. You send me all the bad stuff, send me something good, and I'll praise it, and they sent me a script called The Big Gun, which was a very good western, and I thought this could fit because I knew they had a commitment with Gregory Peck, and they were looking for a western for him, so I did an editorial job of a little bit of rewriting, and one thing another. And somebody else got a bonus for my work, so I quit and I went to Europe on the GI bill to get away from Hollywood, and frankly, just to go to Europe and look around. Now is that Gregory Peck movie, the one where one of the biggest controversies with the studio, was that he wore a mustache in it? Yes, they didn't want him, they wanted him to be clean and shaven, but if you look at

4:22pictures of the time, you see that probably the majority of men wore mustachees, and I forgotten who were the producer and director, but both the producer and the director, and Peck all felt he should wear a mustache, and the studio executives finally said, okay, they didn't want to make an issue of it, and I think it was very good because it lent a sense of realism, which was lacking in as we know in some films. And so Roger, at that point you're disenchanted with the movie business and your experience in it. Get us from there, from walking away from Fox, to making your own films. Well, when I came back, I went briefly to Oxford on the GI Bill, and then I came back, and I got a job as a literary agent, and I wanted to write, so in my spare time I was writing, and I wrote a script, put a different name on it, and as a literary agent sold my own

5:26script, and I, of course, explained what happened to the head of the literary agency and paid him his 10% commission. He laughed, and he said, okay, I understand. And I then said to the producer of the film, as part of the deal, I will work for nothing for you as an assistant, but I would like to get an associate producer credit. And again, he figured, why not? He had somebody unfaith working on the picture, but credits are very important in Hollywood. So I knew that at the end of this, I had officially had on the screen a writer credit and a producer credit, and I took the money from the fail of the script, raised a little bit of money from various friends of mine, a grand total of $12,000, and then I had some deferments. And I made the film, a film I called, it stocked the ocean floor for $12,000 plus the plus

6:31and the deferments, which build it up to $27,000, and I sold it to a little distribution company. They thought my title was too arty, and they changed the title to Monster from the Ocean Floor. And that launched my career. The film was successful. I produced one more film, The Fast and the Furious, a picture about sports car racing. And I did very well with that title, because the picture was successful. And I made money. And later on, a few years ago, Universal was looking for a title for a car racing picture they had starring Vin Diesel and Paul Walker. And they heard about my old title, The Fast and the Furious. So I sold them the title. So I scored twice. Now I heard that on The Fast and the Furious, you bought up a bunch of used cars. Race them and bang them up.

7:35And then basically hose them off and return them. Well, I mean, everything is correct except, hosing them off and returning them back. I essentially wrecked them, because what is a monster, too? I sold them for junk. Roger, do I have this correct that you did several jobs on Monster from the Ocean Floor that you were the producer, the assistant director, the driver, and the grip, and you did a little bit of everything? I did everything, including the truck driver. I drove the truck. And the representative from the teamsters came out to see the shoot. Of course, he wanted to have a teamster's truck driver. And he was talking to me, he said, who's the truck driver? And I said, I am. And he laughed. And he said, you're the first producer truck driver I've ever heard of. And he said, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll make you an honorary member of the teamsters for this picture, because I know you don't have any money.

8:36But you have to have a teamster on the next picture. And I said, that's fair deal. And from then on in, I was with the teamsters. Now, I heard an interview with some people who worked on a few of your films, where you would look at the script and take a pencil and scribble notes on it. And one of the notes was maybe able to use a bare breast shot. For a little while, that was true, not at the beginning. At the first day, you could have nudity until, I think, around the late 1960s, when the rating system with our ratings came in. And we had our rated film, made a number of our rated films that were successful. But that didn't really last that long. They were successful because they were just our rated. They were never anything more than that.

9:38We never had any ex-films or anything like that. They were successful because they were new. And then it sort of faded off. And we haven't had an our rated film or a film with nudity for a long time. I think what it amounts to, they get so much on the internet, there's hardly any point in putting it in the film anymore. Roger, tell us about working for American International Pictures for AIP. And how that started. Well, it started with my second picture. After a monster from the ocean floor, as I said, I made the fast and the furious. And I could see the trap for the producer. You put up your money. You sent the picture up for distribution. And over maybe six months or a year, you got your money back. And you could make another film. And I felt that this was a system that really meant you were not working for a long period of time.

10:38And I had offers from a number of the smaller distribution companies. And American International was just starting. And they came to me and they were Jim Nicholson and Sam Markov ran the company. And they were very enthusiastic and I liked them. And I said, here's what I'll do. I've got offers from established companies. But if you can do this, if you can raise enough money so that I'll give to you for distribution the fast and the furious. And you give me my negative cost back. You pay me back what I've got, I'll invest in it. And then I'll ride with you from them for the profits. But I'll have my money back and let's make a three-picture deal. So I do that three times and each time I get my money back as soon as I finish the picture. And then I gamble for the profits. And that started American International and me. And it turned out to be a very successful formula for all of us. Now I heard and I hope this is true.

11:42On one of your films, they were shooting outside and it became evening. And they called back to you and said, we don't have enough lights. And you said, well, your cars have headlights, don't they? Yes, it actually is true. And you know, the funny thing was I had a very good clue. And because I just met different people like them. And everybody was good. I would hire back an over a period of a three or four films. I had a crew, including a couple of guys, who were Academy Award winners. And when they didn't have anything to do on a big picture, they would work for me. I had an Academy Award cameraman saying, all right, pull the Buick up, point on the bright, bright with the Buick, move the old's mobile over there just with the dim light. And he was an Academy Award lighting cameraman, lighting a car with the headlights,

12:45lighting a picture with the headlights. That's great. What do you remember other things like that that you did during your movies, like real money saving special effects? We did all kinds of things. We never bothered with permits. You know, you pay the city for the permit and they want you to have a policeman out there. I have no idea why either they think they're going to protect you from being robbed, or they're going to protect the public from you attacking the public. But whatever, all of this is nonsense. We went out there without permits, without policemen or anything else, and just shot. And if somebody came by, which occasionally a policeman did, we said we were students from UCLA Film School just shooting a student film. So, and didn't you give them directions that if the police did come,

13:46or there was any tension, just run for it? Well, it was something like that. Actually, yes. The way you phrase it, yes. What are you essentially saying? It was just sort of fade into the crowd. You know, put the camp in a way and get lost. But I think essentially, run for it is a better way to describe it. How many pictures did you make for AIP? I made a lot of films for them. I made probably around 40 films. I think maybe a little more than that. Including Jack Nicholson's debut film, The Crybaby Killer? Yeah, I made that one for Allied Artists. But then I did a number of films for AIP with Jack, including a picture called The Trip, which was about an LSD experience. It starred Peter Fonda, Bruce Durd, and Dennis Hopper. And Jack wrote the script for that. Jack was actually a very good writer.

14:48He could have had a career as a writer if his career as an actor hadn't taken off. Now, here's what always strikes me when I watch Jack Nicholson in one of your early films is that his Nicholson, a legend, internationally known film star. And when I watch him in those movies, those early movies, I think I want to take him aside and go, you know, you have no career in acting. Well, a lot of people felt that he, at one time, I was almost his source of income. He had done four or five films for me, and other people weren't hiring him. And I never understood why, because he was clearly a good actor. And then all of a sudden that hit, he started working, and he was playing co-star roles in low-budget films and so forth. An easy writer was the film, which is sort of a follow-up to my picture,

15:51The Wild Angels, about a motorcycle gang. And again, it started our usual guys, Peter Fonda, Dennis Hopper, and Jack Nicholson. And that's the picture that really made him a star. Is it true, Spinger, Wild Angels? Is it true that George Shakaris was cast, but he couldn't ride a bike? He couldn't ride a motorcycle, and then you went with Peter Fonda because he could ride? Yes, exactly, I did not. I didn't want to do what they did in all of these things. The guy jumps on the motorcycle in the closed shot, and then he'll cut to the long shot, and the stunt driver drives a motorcycle away. I really wanted the picture to be as real as possible. And I wanted to be able to show the leading man or one of the other character actors get on the bike and actually drive the bike away. For a few shots, we did have stunt drivers, but they were for sort of a danger, semi-dangerous shots.

16:52Everything else, I insisted that all of the actors be able to ride a bike. And how did you first meet Jack Nicholson? I met him in an active class, as I said. I went to Stanford as an engineer, and I started as a writer, then produced two films, saw what the directors were doing. I thought, well, I can do that, and I started directing. And maybe the engineering background or something, I thought that I learned the technical aspects, working with the camera, editing all of that, and directing, that I felt I learned that fairly quickly. But I didn't really know enough about working with actors, so I enrolled in a method acting class in Hollywood, and Jack was in that class. And he was clearly, as soon as I saw him work, I realized, I think he was only 18 or 19 at the time, that he was clear that he was a very, very talented actor.

17:52How many discounts does USA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount, safe driver discount, new vehicle discount, storage discount. How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usa.com slash auto discounts, restrictions apply. Lifelock, how can I help? The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't. One in four tax paying Americans has paid the price of identity fraud. What do I do? My refund though, I'm freaking out. Don't worry, I can fix this. Lifelock fixes identity theft guaranteed, and gets your money back with up to $3 million in coverage. I'm so relieved. No problem, I'll be with you every step of the way. One in four was a fraud paying American, not anymore. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. Now in the beast with a million eyes. Yes. I heard that they filmed it and completed the movie,

18:53and everyone sort of liked it, but then they came to the realization that they didn't have a beast with a million eyes. That's pretty much correct. They have a beast with a million eyes, but one thing, it didn't have a million eyes, and it wasn't much of a beast. And I did the picture for AIP. So that was the only picture on which I said, okay, you're supposed to give me a certain amount of money. Give me a couple of thousand dollars more, and I can put in a better beast. So the beast never reached a million eyes, but at least it reached some sort of acceptability. Now I heard at one point, they tried taking an old teak kettle and punching a bunch of holes in it, and putting a light inside it. That was a myth. Somebody said that. I forgot who said all kinds of stories build up, and very often,

19:55the story is better than reality. Let me ask you, going back to the trip for a second, Narajar, the film was about LSD, and you decided, what, at a certain point, that you had to know your subject matter a little better? Exactly. Really, I was a very conscientious director. I was working on short money and short budgets, but I was trying to do the best I could. And I thought, I can't direct a picture, I would produce a indirect picture about LSD, unless I take it. And when I was sort of the straightest guy in a fairly wild crowd, so when people found out that I was going to take LSD, and we went up to Big Sur, because I'd heard you should go to a beautiful place to experience it. We had a cavalcade of cars going up to Big Sur, and we actually had the schedule who would be taking LSD, it was like a film schedule, and who would not? So there'd be somebody always sort of straight

20:58to make certain somebody didn't do something dangerous or harmful. Now, I heard a quote about you. That was that Roger Korman could negotiate a film on a payphone, shoot it in the booth, and finance it with the money out of the chain slot. It's a great story. I wish it were true, but it's a sick, you know, what should I say? There is a realm of thought behind it that is somewhat similar to what I did. Obviously, I couldn't do that, but I kind of like that story. And I heard Jack Nicholson said, occasionally, Roger Korman could accidentally make a good movie. Well, I was never in it.

22:01Actually, Jack was in a couple of good films. I was actually being created rather well by the critics for making a little budget films. He really started with a picture. He talked about the people who started with me and actually that most of the young people, whether watching this or listening to this, I wouldn't know Charlie Branson did a picture called Machine Gun in Cali, or that shot, in 10 days. And Charlie was his first lead. And the film was nicely reviewed and made money in the United States. But the French critics, the new wave critics in France liked American genre films, and they gave it really great reviews. And the picture was a bigger success in Europe than it was in the United States. And Charlie went to first France and then Italy. And on the basis of Machine Gun in Cali, he became a European star.

23:01Before he came back here, he was an international star based in Paris and Rome. And then eventually came back to Hollywood as a full-fledged European star. And that's the movie that ends with, I think, a real-life quote from Machine Gun, Cali. Yes, that's true. I had done some research about Cali. Cali was public enemy number one. And the FBI had him surrounded. And they expected him to fight to the finish. And instead, he threw down his gun, walked out of this cabin where they had him surrounded in the woods and surrendered. And the head of the FBI, you know, whatever he was, said, Cali, we didn't expect you to surrender. We thought you'd played all the way. Why didn't you have, why did you surrender? And he said, I knew you'd kill me if I fought. And I built the whole script around that.

24:01That Cali was not as tough as people thought he was. And what was Branson like to work with back then? Branson was delightful to work with. His reputation is, and it's true. He is a very tough guy. He was a semi-pro boxer at one time, picking up a little money just in flight clubs and things like that. He really was tough. But he was an intelligent and sensitive actor. And I think that's one of the reasons he became a star. It was clear when you saw him on the screen, you were looking at a genuinely tough guy. But he was a very sensitive actor, which went against type. And that's what I think surprised people. And you worked with, well, I mean, in the Edgar Allan Poe movies, you worked with Boris Karloff, Peter Laurie, and Vincent Price.

25:01And Basil Rathbone? Yes. Yes. And Vincent, of course, was our major star. Vincent was the lead in H's of pictures. And again, I was very fortunate. This was the first of the poll pictures was the Fall of the House of Usher. I've been making 10-day pictures in black and white. And I convinced AIP, on this one, they gave me, I convinced them to give me some more money. And I would shoot three days in color, three weeks in color. And I felt I was in the big time I had, for the first time, three weeks. And I had some good sets built by a good art director as a friend of mine, Danny Haller. And I was very fortunate in that we had a good script from Dick Matheson. And Vincent read the script and all that we didn't have enough money to pay his usual salary. We paid him most of his usual salary, and it percentages of profits.

26:03And the film did well. And we went on to make a number of full pictures. Now, I heard Peter Laurie at that point didn't take any of it seriously. And was making up his own dialogue, guess he went along. He took it seriously, but he'd been trained in the Stanislavsky Method in Berlin, working with Bertold Brecht, which involved a lot of improvisation. So he was working very seriously, but he was improvising lines. And this caused a little bit of a problem with Boris Karloff. Boris came to me on the morning of the second day. And he said, Roger, I come here. I come on the set. I'm prepared. I learn all my lines. And then Peter is throwing lines at me that aren't in the script. So I stopped shooting that for a long, for about 10 minutes. And Peter and Vincent and Boris and I all had coffee.

27:08And I explained to Boris that the denser Peter liked to improvise and that he should be a little bit loose and go along with them. And I said to Peter, what you're doing is great. I love it, which I did. But you've got to stay a little closer to the script. You fell in love with Poe as a kid, right, Roger? And this is why you had a lifelong affair with his work. Yes, I think I was in junior high school. And I think it was some English class assignment that I read a whole whole house of Usher. And I asked my parents for the complete works of whole for Christmas. They were delighted. I could have asked for a shotgun or something. They were delighted to give me a book. And I've also heard quotes about you that you were known as the King of the Cult Film and the Pope of Pop Cinema. Yes, I've been called many things. Pope of Pop Cinema is one of the things I like of the best.

28:12There are other things we will not repeat here that didn't like so much. Tell us a little bit about working with Basil Rathbone too and Tales of Terror, one of my favorites. Oh, yes. A Basil Rathbone had been a major star. He was fairly old at that time. And he was a little bit weak. He was fragile. And he had some difficulty in learning his lines. So I had to be very careful and treat Basil, which I always did with all actors with great respect. But I had to be very attentive and sensitive to the fact that he was quite old and couldn't do some of the things and they were written in the script. But he was very good. He was a brilliant actor. And I heard Nicholson was thrilled to be working with Laurie Karloff and Rathbone and Price. Yes, because he was just getting started. If people were just beginning to recognize him as an actor

29:16and they liked him because they recognized that he was a good young actor. And he learned a lot working with them. They went out of their way, particularly Vincent, to help them and to give them advice. We have to talk a little bit, Roger, about the terror. Because a favorite of Gilbert's in mind, and we were watching the wonderful documentary about you. And of course, Jack Nicholson is talking about how the film he defies anyone to understand the plot. Yeah, I heard the writers didn't understand. What happened was this. The picture was only made because it rained on a Sunday when I had planned to play tennis. I was sitting around my house and I had nothing to do. So I called Leo Gordon and I had to wait. Still to go. I just shoot the raven. And I thought, what I can do? I can write, come up, I came up with Leo

30:18with a storyline for the terror on Sunday. And I said to him, right around, around I think 30 pages or so during this week. And I'll come back on Monday, Tuesday of the next week and shoot those 30 pages in two days because that's all the money I had. And then I'll stop and you can write the rest of the script and I'll shoot the rest of the picture, which is what we did. And it starred Boris Karloff and Jack Nicholson and Boris shot the two days. And that was all he was in in the picture. And I said to Jack, he'll be you and Boris for two days but for the rest of the picture is just going to be you and some other actors. And you will be the star of the picture. Now I was signed with the various guilds and I didn't have the money to direct the rest of the picture myself and I shot on, now and then when I had a little money.

31:22So my ace assistant, Francis Coppola shot a couple of days and then he got a job at one, I think at Warner Brothers. And then a month or so later I had a little more money and money helmet shot some of that Jack Hill. Finally the last day of shooting, Jack Nicholson came to me and he said, Raj, every idiot in town is directed part of this film. Let me direct the last day. So I said, okay, Jack, you might as well direct the last day. The problem was every director had a different interpretation of the script and when we cut it all together it did not necessarily make sense because at that time I was shooting another poll picture and I had a set. So I kept the crew for an hour late one night and I brought in Jack and Dick Miller and I had Jack threw a dick up against a wall of this new castle and say,

32:23I've been lied to ever since I've come to this castle. Now tell me what's really been going on at which point Dick explains all of this stuff that didn't make any sense of the whole movie. But he wrote enough so it almost made sense. Weirdly enough, some critics have really tried to examine and work out the themes that are in this script. That scene of Dick Miller explaining the movie is one of the most strange and ridiculous. It goes on for like an hour and a half, it's like. Yes, so the thing goes on with all these weird things and actually we ended up in which Boris Karloff played the Baron Bum lap who owned the castle. A dad Jack came to him and the picture actually seemed a little bit dull to me by the time not only did not make much sense

33:24in the little dull when it was over. So I made it up a whole subplot and I shot I think one scene to fit it in which he was not the Baron Bum lap. He was an imposter who had killed the Baron Bum lap and taken this place to give us a surprise ending. And just so we can repeat so I can make sure I have this right. The only reason this movie got made is because you wanted to play golf that day and what tennis, tennis, you wanted to play tennis and it rained so you figured I'll make a movie. Right movies have been made for stranger reasons in that. And speaking of the Nicholson pictures, we have to mention a little shop of horrors, Roger. It was an original story. What had happened? I had noticed that in some of my horror films after the audience would scream at the horror scenes,

34:28there would be a little bit of laughter. And I wondered why are they laughing? I thought that scene worked pretty well. Everybody screamed and I thought, you know, there's something between horror and laughter and the laughter is a little bit of a relief from the shock of the horror. So a little shop of horrors I made as a sort of a joking experiment, as I say, we shot it in two days, actually two days in a night in which I put together comedy and horror to see if they would work. And the film sort of became a cult film that kept playing year after year midnight screenings and college campuses and so forth. Then it became a Broadway musical and the thing still keeps going after all these years. It had to make you laugh when it became a Broadway musical. Yeah, that surprised me a little bit. I probably should have, I got a little percentage of the profits. I probably shouldn't have negotiated harder on that one

35:30but I was still thinking of it more as a joke than anything else. And one of your quotes in making a science fiction film is that the monster should be bigger than a leading lady. Yes, and that came from my engineering background. I did a picture called, let me see if it was entirely conquered the world. And the monster had come from one of those giant planets out in the far reaches of the solar system Jupiter or something like that Saturn. And from my studies in physics I knew that a giant planet would have very heavy gravity and a giraffe for instance could not exist on a planet like that because it couldn't stand against the power of the gravity. Anything living would be more like a turtle built low to the ground to withstand the gravity.

36:33So I had this creature built that, you know, I was trying to be accurate from the standpoint of physics and being physically correct. So I had this low creature there, a Beverly Darrell under which a leading lady was very happy and very funny. The morning of shooting I was having coffee and she walked over to the creature and she knew I was looking at her and she looked down at it and clicked it and said, so you've come to conquer the world, they take that and she picked it again and I immediately knew I was right from a standpoint of physics but from a standpoint of psychology I was wrong that monster had to be bigger than Beverly. And so this is the most thought it sounds like that you ever put into a movie. Let me see that again.

37:33This sounds like the most thought that you ever put into a movie. Well, I always try within the budgets, you know, to do what I could. I figured I'm limited by the size of the budget and the shortness of the shooting schedule but I'm not limited by my imagination or what I can come up with. So I always worked very hard on the scripts to try to do as well as I could. Now, can you describe, because I can't, can you describe what that monster looked like? It was very strange and models had been made of it for this reason. I said to Chuck Hannawall at the key grip in Dick Rubin, the head problem, I wanted to take this creature I was going to shoot it right away but I'll wait until I have to lunch. I want this thing built up to 10 or 12 feet tall.

38:36So what it was, the mouth and the eyes were all very low because that was the way the creature had been designed and they had time to rebuild that. So they built sort of a touring head above the eyes and they looked very, I will say, a little strange. So it was like, I remember it having like a tiny face and a giant head around it. That would did exactly. Now, you tried to make a more meaningful film at one time than the creature from the ocean floor and beast with a million eyes and you did a movie starring William Shatner. Yes, it was Bill Shatner's first film. He'd come out from New York where he'd been not necessarily a star but a successful actor on Broadway.

39:37And I did the intruder which was about racial integration in the South. This was in 1961 schools where in the South where being integrated, the picture got, went to a couple of film festivals, won a couple of minor film festivals and got great reviews. I remember giving it a second. One of the New York papers said, the intruder is a major credit to the entire American film industry. It was the first film I ever made to lost money. I felt I was too serious with that film. It was nice to win a couple of prizes at festivals and get the good reviews. But I felt I'm not here to lose money on the films. So I went back a little bit to what I've been doing before. Now, I heard in a last-ditch attempt to get people in to see the movie, it changed the title.

40:38Yes, there was a drive-in order in the South who was a friend of mine who said he could put, because the film has Southern background. I don't remember the title. He put some exploiting title. I think the title that got re-released as is, I hate your guts. That's right. That's what it is. And the film did a little business in the drive-in, but it wasn't enough to break. Even weirdly enough, I shot the picture in 1960, lost money. But when Bill sat in here and I did a narration, and we sent it out on DVD in, I think, 2002 or three or something like that, with the DVD release in the year 2003, something, we finally got our money back. Now, I heard it was really dangerous shooting that film down south.

41:39Yes, we had death threats. We were run out of several towns by the police. It was a very difficult film to shoot the final sequence. We were shooting in Southern Missouri. I wanted to be, for some reason I thought if I was in Missouri, a Midwestern state, I would have some safety. But if I was, what they call the boot heel of Missouri down by the Mississippi River, I would have Southern accents because they're mostly local people playing the townspeople, and I'd have to look at the south. It turned out I did have to look at the south, but unfortunately, I had the feeling of the south, and that we had a very tough Ku Klux Klam scene, which was the final scene of the picture. We'd already been threatened, but the people said they were going to kill us. We shot that scene. It was a scene at night. We were staying at a motel. We packed our bags from the motel, shot that scene,

42:42and when I said, printed the last shot, we just jumped in our cars, and when didn't go back to the motel, we drove straight to St. Louis. Were you trying to keep the locals on the end of the police from finding out what the picture was about? What's your intentions were, Roger? We let them know roughly what it was. We rewrote a few scenes in the picture to sort of tone them down a little bit. So people knew what the picture was about, but they didn't know quite how tough it was. Now, I actually remember meeting you when your book came out, how I made a hundred movies and never lost a dime, and right after I got that book, somehow I was at an event and ran into you, and I said, oh, I just got your book. I haven't read it now, and you said to me, I'm just glad you bought the book.

43:44I don't give a damn what you're reading on now. Yes, I think it would have been nice to read it, but it was even nicer to pay the money for the book. This is why you have my hero. Roger, speaking of danger as shoots, so I just want to go back to wild angels for a second. You hired actual hell's angels. Yes, we were working with the angels playing themselves in the gang. Actually, they threatened to kill me. I remember what happened the first, but the picture was a giant success. Nobody realized that in any way that it was going to make as much money as it did. I was told up until that time it was the most successful, little budget picture ever made. The record was broken a couple of years later by Easy Rider, but at any rate, it was a huge success, and they announced that they were suing me for a million dollars

44:47on the basis that I had played them as portrayed them as an outlaw motorcycle gang, whereas in reality, they were a social group dedicated to the spreading of technical information about motorcycles. That got a lot of publicity of that statement, and then they announced and they got a lot of publicity that they were going to kill me. And the leader of the angels called me, and I remember almost a word for word in the picture. This was in the early 1960s, and I still remember it. He said, hey, man, we're going to snuff you out. And I said, look, Otto, you've already announced that you're going to kill me. Now, if I slip and fall in the bathtub, the police are going to come after you, because you've already stated you're going to kill me. On the other hand, you're also suing me for a million dollars. How do you expect to collect the million dollars

45:48if you kill me? My advice to you is forget the momentary pleasure of snuffing me out and go for the million dollars. He said, yeah, man, that's right. That makes sense. That's what we're going to do. That's a great story. That's wonderful. Someone else, you're going to go through some of the directors and some of the people who you gave a start to Roger. But Peter Bogdanovitch, is it true? The first, but the Bogdanovitch film that he directed for you had no dialogue and was added later? No, it wasn't that. It was, I had bought a couple of Russian science fiction films because science fiction was very popular in Russia at that time. And they were making really big elaborate science fiction films. And he shot a couple of additional scenes to tie the picture together.

46:48And we tried to pretend that, since I didn't want to pay for a sound, that the actors used mental telepathy. But when I saw how it worked out, I said, we better put some dialogue in here. And I heard that you actually got Ron Howard. You wanted him to star in the film, and he wanted it to direct. Yes, and what happened was we did this car crash picture called Eat My Dust. And he started it and he had a percentage of the profits. And again, it was some of these films really made a lot of money. And Monday morning, because it opened on Friday, and we already knew Friday night, because we got to gross the first night that we had a success. But Monday morning, we were sort of calculating everything and booking new theaters and everything. And I called him and I said, Ron, I want you to know,

47:50you're going to do very well with this picture. This is a big success. And he said, I already know that. I checked myself and I've been waiting for your call. I want to come in and talk to you. I said, come on in, Ron. And he came in and he said, whatever an actor stars in the picture. And it's a big success and they want him for a sequel. And I assume you want a sequel. He asked for more money. I will not ask for more money. I'll do the picture for the same salary and the same profit percentage. And I'll do one other job for nothing. And I said, what is that? He said, I'll direct the picture. And I said, Ron, you always look like a director to me. And he directed the picture. It was his first picture. He starred in and directed it. And that was a grand theft auto, which was a big success for us. And just like fast and the furious, I collected twice on that because a video game company stole the title and made a lot of money with grand theft auto.

48:53And I sued him and collected the grand theft auto, made money for me twice. Now, I heard at one point, Ron Howard started complaining to you about that there wasn't enough money on the picture and not enough extras. Yes, that's true. There was one scene, demolition, derby, and he wanted a bigger crowd. And I said, this is all the money I got. And I remember, I remember I said, well, I'm trying to think this is so long ago. I said, Ron, if you do a good job on this picture, you will never work for me again. Great story. So the best thing you can offer him was to never work on another Roger Corbin. No, we've been good friends as a matter of fact, there's a possibility that we may remake and eat my dust on a bigger budget and he will produce it.

49:58He won't direct it, but he'll produce it. He and I will co-produce it. Now, you made some films recently for the sci-fi channel. Can you give us some of those titles? Well, it started off when I only see it. I did a science fiction picture about recreating the DNA of a dinosaur of a crocodile. And I called it Diner Croc. The sci-fi channel heard about it and they called me. It was Tom Vitale. He was ahead of the sci-fi channel. I said, he'd heard about it. He'd like to see it because they might be interested in buying it. And he did. And he bought it. And it did very well. So he asked for more. And I did a number of them. Each picture seemed to get a crazier and crazier title. We went through Supergator, Diner Shark, Peronaconda.

51:03And finally, they called me one time. They said, Roger, you've come up with the titles on every film. This time, we've got a title. And I said, what is it? And they said, Shark, do you want to make it? And I said, no. And I said, why don't you want to make it? And I said, which I actually believe, I said, you can go up to a certain level of insanity with these titles. And the audience is with you. But if you go over what I might call the acceptable level of insanity, the audience turns against you. And I think Shark Depus is above the acceptable level of insanity. One thing led to another. I made the picture highest reading of the year for the sci-fi title. So we then made a second Shark Depus film. And that got a giant rating. And we're now in the process of making a third one.

52:04Was that Shark Depus versus Terracuda? That was a Shark Depus versus Terracuda. Came out this summer. We're trying to think of another creature. We haven't yet come up with this title yet. Now, I also heard that back then, guys like you and Sam Markov would have a title first. And which have a title worked the best? You're right, a movie around it. Yes, we occasionally, not often. Generally, we had an idea for the picture and came up with a title. But every now and then, that's true. We did have a title and we wrote the picture around the title. Roger, let's talk about your relationships with some of the people you started in the business. Joe Dante, Bogdanovic we mentioned. We have to mention Martin Scorsese. And is it true that you approached Martin Scorsese came to you with mean streets? And you said you could make it, but only as a black exploitation picture?

53:08It's partially true. He had directed his first Hollywood picture for me. A picture called Boxcar, which was a very good picture. And he had this picture that he wanted to make, that he had written himself called mean streets. He asked if I would finance it. And I said, well, I don't really have enough money, but if this were a black film, I think I could raise the money. And he said, and he was right. He said, it can't be because black films were very popular at that time. And he said, you know, it's really written with an Italian. It's based upon, in part, my youth and the Italian neighborhood of New York. It has to be an Italian film. Here's one I have to ask you. On one of your films, you would have the cameraman chase after fire trucks and amulets that just happened to be going by.

54:11Yes, we didn't chase after them, but we photographed them and used them, because I knew that kind of footage could be used in action films. And we did do that. I just want to ask you quickly, Roger, too, about some of the acting work that you did for your protegeys. I mean, audiences might know you from Godfather, too. You're one of the senators that's grilling Michael Corleone. I know he was a bad guy, as soon as he walked in the room. You're in the howling. You're in Apollo 13. Silence of the lambs, Philadelphia. You have any fond memories of these acting parts? Yes, I do, because they were all done for directors who were friends of mine. They were always two or three day roles. I didn't have the time for a longer role. And I think they thought I didn't have the ability to carry a longer role. So it was just sort of getting together and having fun. I just have good memories of the whole thing.

55:12How did you feel about getting that honorary Oscar a couple of years ago? Because Demi and Joe Dante and Tarantino and Peter Flandin, so many of your friends came out to salute you. Must have been very moving. I was very pleased I'd gotten a star in the Hollywood Walk of Fame a few years earlier, which I thought was fine. But I never expected to get an Academy Award. I was really surprised. There's these were the lifetime achievement awards, which are given at the governor's ball. So you're not surprised at the time. You're told you're going to get one. And I remember they called me after a meeting on the board of directors of the Academy and said, they just voted to give me an Academy Award. That truly surprised me. I never expected to get that. Well, this is one of those interviews that I wish could go on for another month. So many things I won't talk to you about. Maybe we can do it again.

56:12Oh, I'd love to. And I remember hearing a quote Scorsese said in your films, they was no need for taste. What is art school of horrors about real quickly? That's a little budget film I did with of the San Francisco Art University. They gave me one of those honorary PhDs. And I looked at some of the work done by the students. And I thought, you know, this is really quite good. And I talked to Diane Baker, who's the head of the school. And I said, if I gave the students a little money for their senior project, but they like to make a feature film. She talked to the students and they said, yes. And she agreed. So they made this little film. We took this title slightly from Little Shot before us from Art School of Horrors. And it's a horror film with comedy. And shot in an art school.

57:14So they were able to just shoot it in their own school. And they didn't have to spend any money on that. Wonderful. So like a little call back to Bucket of Blood. Right. And oh, you know, and I'm going to wrap up in a second. Your movie, The Last Woman on Earth. Oh, yes. Was that the one with Robert Town playing writing and acting? Yes. He wrote the picture. And we were to shoot two pictures in Puerto Rico. And he hadn't finished his script. And I didn't have very much money. And I knew he was a good actor. He had been the same acting class with Jack Nicholson and I were in. So I said, you've got to come to Puerto Rico. And while I'm shooting the first picture, you have to finish shooting this script. And since I don't have any money in the budget, you're going to play the young leading man. I had to write the script. And this was a movie where everyone died because the oxygen

58:18was sucked out of the Earth. The atomic bomb, right? And then the scuba divers who weren't around for that popped their heads up just as the oxygen came back. That's right. I love that picture. And one story, I'm sorry. I got to ask you and then we'll wrap up. When Dick Miller first came to you, he said he wanted to be a writer. And I heard you said, I don't need any writers. I need actors. Yes, and he was a good actor. And he played, he actually did write one script for me at a later date. But he did. I don't know. I must be 20, 30 films we've done together over the years. And I heard he said, you cast him as an Indian. And in the same movie, cast him as a cowboy. And he wound up shooting himself. Yeah, because we had the Indians fighting against the cowboys. I didn't have very many, very many extras.

59:21So I put them in the front, I think, as a cowboy. And then when I reversed the camera and photographed the Indians, I put them in the back, dressed as an Indian. Nobody ever noticed it was the same guy. My hero, Roger Corman. Well, ladies and gentlemen, this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with the great legendary Roger Corman, a man who makes Edward films look positively high-tech. Roger, thanks for doing this. We really appreciate it. Very good. I've had a good time and I thank you very much. Oh, thank you so much. Thanks. Very good. Good night.