GGACP Rewind: Episode #23: Brian Koppelman

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1:05GoDaddy, it's GoTime. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried. This is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopodre. And we're here at the Friars Club. Our guest today has worked with Jean Hackman, John Malkovich, Matt Damon, George Clooney, and with North Martin Landau, Dennis Hopper, and Brad Pitt. And yet, the biggest thrill of his life was to work with me, Gilbert Gottfried. Welcome, writer, director, Brian Koppelman.

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4:11who have signed up to receive a mystery box of goodies. Zero plus from a company that already swears by zero. Zero, beautiful accounting software. Now, your father, Charles Coppelman, was one of the biggest music moguls of all time. What the fuck do you do? That's a great question. Yes, what a welcome. What a welcome. We can talk about all that, but I have to tell you first, you ruined Harry Chapin for me forever. You're why, because I had sex with them first? Because you, in the cut out of when you were on my podcast, because there was some kind of recording glitch, I think, from The Great Beyond, Chapin did it. But you told me you had this murder fantasy. Whatever, whatever, here's taxi.

5:12Whenever you hear taxi or cats in the cradle. And the other night, I was, I mean, if you think this is a low rung of show business, the other night I was asked to induct somebody into the Long Island music hall of fame. Yeah. And so I went out there, and in this very moving moment for everybody else, one of Harry Chapin's daughters got up and sang cats in the cradle. And all I can think about was you strangling. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I said yes. Now, he's already gone. Yes. Now, all those people who wrote songs like that, like him, and who is the other? Jim Croci. Jim Croci. They all crashed in cars. John Denver's dead. Yeah, yes. Well, he crashed in a plane. Well, Croci was a plane, too. Croci was a plane. Correct, correct. OK, so can I spread the rumor that I was supposed to get on that plane with Croci? And at the last minute, I was buying some chocolate, and I missed it. Yes, yes.

6:13I want to spread that as a popular rumor. Now, you would help your father find musical acts. Yes, that's true. Yes, I did. Now, who was some of the people you discovered? Well, I discovered Tracy Chapman is probably the most famous person that I was the first person to hear. And others, you know, Eddie Murphy, his first record deal. But these are, this is always a very long time. Yes, yes. And my girl wants to party all the time, party all the time, party all the time. Yeah, but the true killer track on that record is Boogey in the butt. Boogey in the butt, how did you miss that? I remember. You may remember, but I just not feed that to him. Okay, first. Could you sing Boogey in the butt for us? The key line was on, put the Boogey in your butt. Put the Boogey in your butt. Put the Boogey in your butt. See, that's a little too subtle, too real.

7:15See, I like songs that you have to think about. That you got to hear it a few times, my favorite line in the song was, do you remember the item that a woman used to wear? A coolot? Oh, sure. Oh, my God. Yes, that was an ugly fashion. Well, in the song, they felt you should put a coolot in your butt. Put a coolot in your butt. That was one of the tabs at the end, in the fam, actually wrapping up a coolot and shoving it in your butt. How would you do it? I don't know. I usually do it with jeans. Did you establish that your dad was Charles Copeland, the legendary music producer and executive? Yeah, he, uh, he, uh, he, uh, I, yes, yes, you, you, you, you, I'm sure he actually said his name. Yes. It was like the first two words. I recognize them. Yeah. So you work for your dad for a time? Say no. So you work for your dad? Well, no, I was not working for my dad. I did that when I was in college. But you were a Tufts University and then? Yeah, I was in a Tufts University and then, yeah,

8:15I found Tracy Chapman and, um, while organizing an anti-apartheid, uh, boycott against, uh, you know, divest, uh, pro divestment rally. There was this movement in the, uh, eighties where these, these universities would invest their endowments, um, in just throw a dick joke in, by the way. Yes, so I'm talking about this. No, I was just thinking, and let's throw a dick joke in. Yo, you're one of those jeweled liberals. Yeah, yeah, I'm saying, I was, yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly, okay, uh, let's talk about something else here. I, okay, let's have it. It's your show. Do you have any jokes? Let's, uh, here, I'll tell you something you're going to enjoy. Gilbert, this is for you. I was walking over here and I was thinking, you know, I don't really have many stories that took place 30 years ago. Santa Padre is going back to one of 18, um, yeah, in college. Um, and, uh, but the other day, something happened to me that I thought was worthy of, uh, talking about on, on here and it is that, uh, like you, I'm a skeptic, you know, pen is both of our good friends and,

9:17I'm an atheist and I'm a skeptic. The reason you're a skeptic is because you're a Sagittarius. Yes, yeah, of course, there's a lot of reasons. So, uh, but I'd heard, I have a, a hurt back and I, I heard that there was this, all these self-help guys, um, on various podcasts started talking about this therapy called cryogenic chambers. Oh, wow, I know what that is. Yes, that's where allegedly Walt Disney is. That's what, yeah, but that's sort of like taking it to the, but what they do now is they've come up with this thing where for, this is what the pitch is. You go in for three minutes to where the, and they release in this little chamber, an, uh, an amount of nitrous oxide that's, uh, at 250 degrees, minus 250 degrees, uh, Fahrenheit, and, uh, you freeze and it reduces all bodily inflammation. And cures you of whatever it is that might be, uh, and I heard about it.

10:20And I thought, all right, that just sounds so outrageous. And what if it worked because we're all fucking suckers sometimes? And I was like, I got to go check this out. So the guy make movies with and I, Dave, we go, I look and I'm in Manhattan. There has to be, if there's cryogenic chambers in the world, there has to be one, you know, near bottom. So there's one 10 blocks. There's one two blocks from where we are right now. Yes. Is there a free one? Gilbert could check out it. It's 90 bucks, but they'll let you do it for 70, 45, the first time. Yeah, so I've got a coupon. But so on the way there, we're talking each other going like we have to be the biggest suckers on earth. Like we're really going to go and go into this thing and it's 200 degree, you know, and, uh, we start making jokes about that mammoth movie, the Spanish prisoner, with, you know, where Steve Martin is this con man. And then we walk up and you go into a building, a tiny elevator, little thing, because you know, the therapy, the cure is everybody. There's always in some obscure building down up in every movie. It's in some abandoned warehouse where you go in an alleyway and it's state of the heart.

11:23Let me say one thing ahead of time. The name I'm going to say at the end of this story is so good and so perfect for the two of you that you're going to think, you're going to think I made it up or that there's, you won't be able to come up with a better name. I'll ask you who this person should be at the end of the story. Penn knows this, it's 100% true. So we walk into the cryogenic place and it is right out of Spanish prisoner. There is a well-dressed, wasp couple, 60 years old, putting their scarves on, having just finished, saying to the guy, saying to the guy, I feel revivified. This is marvelous. And then the guy actually says, like in one of those movies, uh, let me know about franchising opportunities. I want to open these all over the country. Like as though they obviously have that guy rolling in whenever somebody comes to do their therapy. So I say, oh, I want to try this. What do I do? I'll sign these releases. It's going to be great. And they tell me you have to go in the back. You have to disrobe. Then you put on, you put on woolen mittens and clogs.

12:28And then you go into the thing, a nude, but with mittens and clogs because of your extremities and things. So I, and you, but you get a little thin robe on first. Now do you wear anything over your balls? Yes, you do. You wear, just take it. You can wear a sort of cotton, you can wear cotton underwear. Can't have anything on it. Not even a cop piece. No copy. Wow. So the whole time worried about that than my feet. So going to get short, going through the thing. I'm the whole time. I'm, I'm thinking, uh, oh, this is, is it real? Is it bullshit? You know, all these people do it. And how will I know if it, it's like, is it going to be a placebo effect? And so they start talking to you about afterwards. What you're going to have to, you walk by exercise equipment that you're supposed to afterwards to, uh, rewarm yourself up. And you can only stay in there for exactly three minutes and all the pseudo science bullshit. And I go in and there's an outer chamber. And then in it, you see, um, all the, like the smoke and everything from, uh, triogenics. And, uh, it's just this happened last week. I, I go in and I have the little thin robe on.

13:31And of course, there's this ice maiden from Poland who runs it. And she's like, you want to disrobe now or you would disrobe? And I'm like, oh, out this robe. You know, I don't give a shit. So I, I take off the, the robe and I'm standing there in my mittens and my clogs. And they just open the little secret chamber that you go in where they then turn it to 250 and it's horribly scary in the freezing. And just as I'm about to go in, a guy bursts in and says, the VIP is here. That whole treatment's three minutes. That cures you of everything. Every three minutes, how can sir anything? VIP is here. Can't wait. Do you mind stepping out? Wow. So you're then naked in the clouds and clouds and clouds, and about to step in to 250 and you're standing there with your dick and it's, you can feel how freezing it is. And I go like, wait, you said it's three minutes. The VIP can't wait three minutes. And I say, this is a real VIP can't wait three minutes.

14:34So I'm like, what the fuck? All right, okay, okay, fine. Put the robe in. So I put the robe back over the thing and I, you know, clonk out in the, the clogs and they open the outer door. So the VIP can come walking in in the robe and the clogs and the mittens. And I will tell you that when I tell you who the VIP was, you will understand that I then knew the whole thing was not only bullshit. But it was one of the great moments of my life. Who, who should it be? Who should it be? Who should the VIP be? Oh, wow, they could be Tom Cruise. Is it a new agey kind of person? So much better than Tom Cruise. Oh, better than Tom Cruise, not John Travolta, not a scientist. By the way, so much the name for where we are and it's so much better than Joe Franklin. Milton Burrell, those are great. Yeah, I mean, you know, not possible. And I can't imagine I'd pay money for that. Shaking green. You ready? Yeah, because neither you're going to believe in the prize club. So yo, go on. Wow.

15:34Oh, no, oh, that's perfect. That should have been the first name I thought it's the best. Wow, wow, that should have been the exact first name. As Ken said, the number one rule of storytelling is you, you can never say I'm going to tell you a name at the end and it's going to be as good as, but honestly, you can save that name to the industry. That's a big pal. That one and it's one of those like, oh, God, why didn't I think of that one first? I was trying to think of it in the whole history of show business. Who would have been better? Oh, I think or are only Warhol. Oh, yeah. The only name I could think of that would have been better. Was she naked with Mittens? Yeah, she had the little robe. She of course had the handler with her. Everyone else, they're like, no one can go in. It's live, but of course, her. She can have the handler go in. It's all bullshit. It's great. And then I will tell you, and this is the other part. So I step out and then Dave, my, the guy may move with the night. We'll stare at each other and we fall out laughing. And I got bummed, I got bummed to bring yoga.

16:37And then she goes in there to get cryogenically frozen, which explains a lot by the way. Oh, yes. And she comes out and the guy immediately put the sunglasses back on her. Wow. Do you know she has them seen her walking around New York? I'm sure she's always in. Oh, yes. Yeah, those, she's one of those people, like Woody Allen, who has those recognizable disguises. Yes. And so did you explain to Yoko that now that John is dead? She's pretty meaningless and it's not a VIP. I just wanted to, I tell you every horrible, you know, you wonder if you're a bad person or a good person. And then staring at Yoko, you just know what you are. Oh, yeah. So one of our guests, David Steinberg, you have a, you have a story, something that happened when you were 14. Oh, well, yeah, that's true. Sorry to go back again. We can go back. Yeah, well, Gilbert, I think I told you this, but David Steinberg,

17:37who is a great pal of my father's and sort of a godfather to me, really just one of my favorite people in the world. Q David Steinberg impression. Oh, yes. You know, I, you know, in college, in college, David, David, how do you feel about this mayor, Toronto Rob Ford? David, what's the mere torrental? He's a, he, he takes drugs. He's a big, he's a big group. And he's a drug addict. That's a little like Alan thick. You know, Canadian, say you'll have that. Take the Steinberg whisper, the Steinberg impression. Yes, first, yeah, he's established that long ago. Um, he took you to see. Well, yeah, so Steinberg said to me, uh, he knew I love comedy. And I was really interested in this stuff. And, and he said, I'm going to take you to the city to see this guy. I'd never been to a comedy club before. And, uh, he will either kill or die a horrible death.

18:42But either way, Brian, he's a genius. And, uh, so he took me to the city. The two of us went to the old Carolines and, um, you know, Gilbert came out. And I do remember every moment. It was one of the, you know, signal moments as, uh, somebody wanted to do something creative for their, for their lives. I mean, watching Gilbert do the thing that he did on stage that night, where, you know, you did a really outset, but they were with you, um, you know, you did the character with the buttoning up the shirt. And, uh, Bengus are a bit, well, he didn't do the Bengus are a bit that night. Um, no, he did this one, this thing about Ethiopia that night. It was the one line thing. Oh, oh, I, I, I think that was, uh, you know, I, uh, oh, John Kennedy died in my arms and Bobby Kennedy died in my arms. And Martin Luther King died in my arms. And I, I just got back from B, uh, Biafra and boy, uh, my arms tired.

19:45I have never heard you do that pitch. That's great. Little Tony Orlando in there about the dying in the arms part, but then, you know, it's a 14 year old that did blow my mind. So in the middle of this thing where he was doing like a fully out, you know, late period miles kind of a set, you know, he would turn his glasses in a certain way and, and then become that character who would say, uh, this isn't, that's not funny. Yeah. This isn't comedy. And, you know, that's what I obviously like all I knew of comedy was Gabe Kaplan, so that was basically Gabe Kaplan's act. There you could cross Gabe Kaplan off our, uh, our invite. Yes. I loved Gabe Kaplan. I begged my dad to take me to see Gabe Kaplan when I was like 12 at the West Bay Music Fair. And for my birthday, and he walked out and at 12, he just, it was all those Joe, you know, all set up punchline regular observational jokes, except then he wanted to prove like all these guys are going to TV on a regular show.

20:47They want to prove they can work blue. Oh, yes. So then he started doing all these fucking masturbation jokes, which is a 12 year old. Yeah, he did all these jokes about, uh, I remember one, uh, where he compared, um, having a wet dream, but he would call it nocturnal emission. The proper and, oh, yes. And he would do a whole routine like it was the Apollo launch. And it would go all prepare for nocturnal emission. And this whole control towered a thing. And, um, I just remember sitting there thinking, Oh, Gabe Kaplan's not funny. Yeah. I remember it was a horrible realization. I think it was, I think George Carlin said it's easy to go from being a dirty comic to a clean comic, then from being a clean one to a dirty one. Sure. And, and let's all have a moment of silence for Marshall Strassman. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, Mrs. Carter, who went on to have a reward. I, yesterday, we're having a good laugh. Over the day of a night trip. I loved her. It's now I thought she was the, as a young boy, she was the greatest.

21:48Now, so we, we met there at that, uh, we did. We met then, and then you and I met also, uh, everybody says they were at the Hilton that night of the, uh, the fryers roast, but I was there as I told with Frank Tejacamo, who ended up writing that piece of the Hefner roast at the Hefner roast. I was at the Hefner roast with Frank Tejacamo. So I saw that whole thing and I met you that night, but, um, you were, uh, and you were nice and I went up to you and I said, uh, oh, Gilbert, we have some friends in common. I'm, I'm good friends with Alan Havien. You said, why? So Alan Havien turned up in, uh, turns up in rounders. Absolutely. Of course. There's a few comedians at that table. Lenny Clark. Yeah. Lenny Clark's at the table. Absolutely in rounders. Um, sob. And, uh, yeah. Well, Havien's been my friends with, uh, I was a nice week guy. Was Josh Mastell. Yeah. Yeah. Two and he's a knock around Josh Mastell in a couple of movies. I love Josh. He's a hilarious guy. And, um, you guys should have, have you had Josh on the show? No, we should.

22:49We should. He's perfect to have on the show. This episode is brought to you by Redfinn. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfinn, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfinn isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals when you find the one you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at redfinn.com, own the dream. What if you could have the most reliable Wi-Fi at the same price for five years? That's the Xfinity five year price guarantee. No annual contracts, no hidden fees and our best equipment included. Plus, get online in minutes with same day Wi-Fi. Just five years of fiber-powered Wi-Fi that boosts speeds to the devices that need them most. Lock in your price and unlock the possibilities. Xfinity, imagine that. Select plans only restrictions apply powered by fiber connected to the premises by coaxial cable actual speeds vary.

23:52The world moves fast. You work day, even faster, pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data. Microsoft 365 co-pilot is your AI assistant for work built into word, Excel, PowerPoint and other Microsoft 365 apps you use helping you quickly write, analyze, create and summarize. So you can cut through clutter and clear path to your best work. Learn more at Microsoft.com slash M365 co-pilot. Now, now when when we met the David Steinberg go, Brian, I want you to meet Gordon Burke. I think you and Gordon Burke will get along swimmingly. I think he might have said don't talk to Gilbert. I know. I think anyone is that just watch him from afar, watch Gilbert. So let's talk a little bit. Your dad's in the music business. Yes, you're oh, wait, wait. I just remembered some because you mentioned Gabe Kaplan.

24:54I did. And and your father didn't he produce albums for love and spoonful. Yes. Oh, yes. OK. So what's the connection here? The biggest, his biggest hit. Oh, God. Later. That's exactly right. Very good. Welcome back. John Sebastian later. I mean, you weren't working together by then. Yes. Later, John Sebastian did. He did do the the song. I have a feeling that's probably his biggest money maker. Oh, I'm sure. Well, no, do you believe in magic? Oh, yes, yes. There would have to be do you believe in magic and then summer in the city. And then probably welcome back third would be as a publisher's son. But I'm just thinking does he get paid every time? Welcome back Carter. I think he does. John Sebastian? Yeah. Because that's one of those shows that's always going to pop up somewhere. Well, that's quality in the tank. Can you name all the kids on? Welcome back. Sure, I can. Yes. Freddie Boom Boom Washington, Juan Epstein, Arnold Horshack,

25:56and Vinny Boom Boom Barbarino. Do you know not Boom Boom Barbarino? It's a just Freddie Boom Boom Washington. No, Vinny Barbarino. Do Vinny Barbarino. You know, I'm a nickname. Well, but then he would do that song. Barbar Barbar Barbar Barbarino. That's true. On as a riff on Barbarino. Barbarino Beach Boys. That Robert Hedges and what's his name? Sammy Petrilo. Oh, so yeah, I know you mean. Ron Polillo. Ron Polillo. And Robert Hedges died in the same year. So when they were doing the thing on the Grammys, rather than show two separate clips, they had a clip of them together. Wow. And it saved time. Saves two seconds. Yeah, it's important. You had a clip of them together. When Polillo died, something very sad happened for us and our office, which is whenever we're asked to make cast, you know, you're always, when you're making movies, you're always making these cast lists. And, you know, you, I'm sure you guys have this, there are just certain things you say to each other by road. So whenever we have to make a cast list for like the butch lead of a movie,

26:57one of us always, no matter what, says, well, obviously, Polillo. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, but now that he died, somehow, that seems disrespect. Oh, yeah. Before. Everything we've said to this point is fair. But remember, now on Polillo, like so many of those people, like, like, Erkle, and all of those, and like Dustin Diamond, they all try to act really tough at one point, to show their he-man. Did Polillo go through the tough? Right, Polillo was in that boxing show. I don't remember. I think he- Celebrity boxing? Yes, celebrity boxing. And it was- Oh, he hit though. He lost. That's right. That's right. Oh, you're right. He fought another nerd. Did he fight Todd Bridges? No, no, he fought like, I think it was another nerd. I think our crack research team is working on it. I remember Danny Boniducci fought Donny Osmond. Oh, yes, yes. Which we'll ask Danny. Which was- That was that celebrity boxing show. So it was like a nightmare. Poor Ron Polillo.

27:58Yeah, but he fought- Oh, who did he box? This is hard. We're working on it. Do you think during those three years, that Polillo always somewhere inside of him new, this is all it's gonna be? Oh, my God. What do you think? Yeah, I have a sneaking suspicion that he really thought he'd be like this respected Shakespearean actor because he went to acting school and everything. And I had- So- Is this a bad time to point out that I worked with both Ron Polillo and Robert Hedges on the TV Land Awards? He used to be a dry billionaire. Wait, who played, who played Boombom? Uh, no, no, no. Oh wait, Boombom was which one? A long-tailed Jacob's. Yes. Yes, nice man. And who later on would play the father of Michael Jackson? In the Jackson TV movie? Yes. Very good. I'll work it over time. And he was also, and he was also one of the muggers in Deathwish.

28:59That's correct. Deathwish had a lot of famous muggers. Since the loan turn up and- Oh, was that bananas? It's the ones on a subway in this right now. He's also a suspected mugger in Prisoner of Second Avenue, which is a Jack Lemon. That's right. But the other muggers in Deathwish, a muggering rapist, Jeff Goldblum, and- and another part, he's just there for a second, Denzel Washington. Really? Yeah. Well, he's a mugg- Boombom Washington, and Denzel Washington. Excuse me, Dan. I originally couldn't call the film Washington. No idea. David Steinberg once directed me. And what did he directed me? In- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in-

29:59in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- in- shows you this is a horror story he had an eye the size of an orange and it was like bleeding at the end of this and I thought oh you know the fun to this I enjoy these horror things as much as anyone and this is just wrong I didn't think doing this podcast would make me this sad to all about I'm just deeply

31:01I think this is most people have killed them I never knew what a clinical depression really was until right this must be what it feels like I have to walk around all the time feeling like this let's I'm determined to ask you about your your screenwriting career you're working anything you want to how did you you you're working in the music business we're scouting talent we talked about on the phone we talked about my father's place a legendary music hangout in Long Island where we're both from yeah oh yeah yeah I was I was always I always figured that's what I do would be somebody who would go because I did grow up my dad sure is in the record business as you guys said and I grew up going to recording studios I spent a lot of time going with him and and watching these bands you know watching Barbara Streisand record her albums or Dolly Parton or all these pop acts that's really what my father did these pop music act mostly and and I had a real affinity for it and I was able to recognize when a song would be successful even from a young age I kind of you know you you're if you're if you pay attention and you're around it you

32:05picks up bunch stuff up so I figured that's what I do and then in college when I found Tracy and then help make that first album that was so successful it just felt like that's the path that I was on and I worked at various different record companies but something in it left me cold for a variety of reasons and it was really after the the the birth of my son I was I this may be a little too hopeful and sentimental for Gilbert to handle and but I realized like I wanted to tell my son to go chase whatever he wanted to chase is he grew up whatever dreams he had and that I wasn't and I was kind of miserable doing what I was doing because I really wanted to do with this thing of fine way to make movies so my best friend and I was at that time a degenerate poker player living in these poker clubs I would go to work I would stop home see my wife and my son when they when Sammy would go to bed because I had to go I had to go watch bands

33:06all night long that was my job the in between I would just go play cards all night and and but I walked into this poker club and and one guy said to another guy there was a there was a Hacidic guy playing poker at the table and and and he and another guy at the table got into a fight and the one guy accused the Hacidic guy of cheating and the third guy at the table said come on has he's a man of God and the guy said man of God come on he's the only Jew I know took Germany plus the points and a guy said that in the room and I remember just going like holy shit this is the movie and I called my part Dave was my best friend and I said I know what we should write about and then starting the next morning we started writing rounders and spent a long time researching it and going to the clubs and writing stuff down and you know lines of dialogue ways

34:09people looked at one another fights that happened and we just started putting together that this story and then we met every morning for two hours before I go to work Dave was telling bar and I guess before he would go you know he'd finish his thing come over to my apartment Amy had cleared out a storage area under our apartment building it has slop sink and nothing else and we sat in this room and wrote that screenplay in like five months and four and a half months or something and it got rejected by every single agency in Hollywood they all said it one guy would say it's overwritten the next guy would say it's under written all that stuff and then some kid manager young guy never sold anything said I think I think this thing is great and I think it's a movie and he got it some producer got it to Harvey Weinstein who bought it and you know within two days all those same agents called the sign up of course and I got to say to them but you said it was overwritten you said underwritten I still don't know what those terms mean and that started us being able to have this other life making you know making movies and television inspiring now you had your

35:09dialogue recited by a ridiculous cast I mean Matt Damon John Tattaro Melkovich Melkovich Martin Landau yeah I mean an incredible it was amazing yeah I was there every day we were on set every day in a part of it yeah sure and Fomke Jansen yeah good good Jansen was in oh yeah oh she was the girl with the dark hair yeah she comes in offers herself to Matt Damon I forgot about Fomke Jansen yeah sure one of my favorite names and in fact even in a small little part before she was famous um Melina canna Caritis who then had like you know five years of her own show on TV's in the movie it was great it was an amazing thing and you thought oh this is what Holly was going to be like writer script and production within a year the movie comes you know the movie comes out within another few months of that you know just felt like you get the dream actors you thought making movies was like these movies about making movies yeah you're going to

36:11then you go to room with your buddy yeah you're right the script and Matt Damon's in it there's a pile of cigarettes on the ground crumpled paper and next thing the movie premiere exactly what I love about it too is it's one of these movies that teaches you something I remember reading an interview with John Houston once and he's talking about the gold panning scenes in the treasure of the Sierra Madre and if you and how you learn what I'm actually learn to pan gold that he thought if you could teach somebody something if you could actually show them show it happening on screen this movie teaches you I don't know anything about poker but after I saw the movie I felt like I had but it's in treasure thank you that's true but it's in treasure Sierra Madre just the greatest oh yeah you see echoes of it in so many movies now yeah well has that yeah yeah that's a mention of bugs money cartoon oh yeah yes yeah they were always doing that and those Warner brothers yeah there's like I think there was one a simple plan sure yeah all these movies that have people who are friends who get money and then turn on each other yet so many of them and

37:14also just even I think like the beginning had the panning for like the beginning whole piece of it the way the rip-offs happen what they're trying to do I you just I see echoes of it in all sorts of movies just visual echoes of that movie if people haven't seen it that's and I nobody's disappointed when they watch I remember that movie when Houston goes you're dumber than the dumbest decades he does dance he does that little jig it's great and do you remember who the little Mexican kid is no who is it Robert Blake oh yes that's true yeah a young Robert Blake yeah that was one of his first roles doesn't he hit him up he hits Bogart up for money oh yeah and then later I think he sells him a lottery that's right that's right what's your theory on what happened to look what do you think happened to that guy oh god knows what you think and then then Robert Blake is the one who recognizes at the end the bags that Bogart that's right that's how okay what happened the rabbit

38:16you know what do you think he was money to begin with yeah right yeah that's obvious I think even on those two Carson when you watch him on those Carson episodes he's very oddball but he's he seems in control of the crazy yes well Tom Slider show too the one-on-ones you would really see the meltdown more than Carson Robert Blake though has said an interviews that he he resented Johnny Carson because he knew after he was doing them that he was abusing him that he was taking advantage of the fact that he had emotional problems and Carson like that Carson like oh we have a fun nut on the show like oh this guy's crazy we're gonna that's the name of that yeah hey yeah we're gonna book him right after Gabe Kaplan and you know what I think too with that murder where you know yeah that's what yeah where he just disappeared you know this is funny a friend of mine took me to that restaurant and when I was leaving the

39:18waiter chased me outside because I had left my sunglasses that were like a five dollar pair of sunglasses did you murder him yeah no I thought so allegedly Robert Blake was able to leave a gun on the table and walk away but I sure see I think that murder case was like when she died at the jury was like oh fuck her if he didn't kill or someone else what a fuck her but he did like when you would see I never seen you see a picture of somebody and they're they're just such that you know so radically unrecognizably different oh yeah well I think he had a troubled childhood from the game if you tell he talks about it I think he was troubled like Gilbert says from the get go yeah I don't think it was something that the vet that Hollywood but it's amazing with someone's I mean just one thing to talk talk about Palillo but when you think about where because Palillo sort of even if he didn't know it was just a short yeah we knew oh yes

40:21but Robert Blake was the biggest star that there was when he was on that show yeah Robert Blake on the Titanic star well first everyone knew him first from in cold blood and then electric light and blue oh yes I like that one yeah yeah of course in cold blood and then electric light and blue which has you know one of those great 60s bad end you know endings where it doesn't end happily oh yes and then yeah then Beretta and he is like the guy he's the biggest TV star he can go and tell you know any show we want and then the thing just just goes away it's you know I have a great Robert Blake clip that I'll send you from YouTube from what period of time singing singing with Gavin McLeod on the Dinosaur show oh my god which has to be seen to be believed oh my god but getting back to rounds I remember I loved them so I just did think Beretta because I was probably seven or six years so I just the Beretta was the greatest human ever created like the coolest guy right but now if you

41:23watch it it's so can't be in horrible oh but when you're a kid it seems like horrible 70 shit yeah that only the 70s good yeah in the 70s your toughest cops had a cook-a-too on their shoulder or a lollipop in their mouths and those are the signs that's right those are the icons of toughness and a wheelchair an iron side for wheelchair wheelchair was it was it tough with rounders to to make poker cinematic was that one of the challenges you know we work with director John doll who if you saw the last adoption or rock West used an incredible visual stylist I guess you know we were we were just trying to figure out we were so fascinated by those people by you know like poker players and I still think it's the case even though the tournament competitive poker maybe cuts it a little but they're like gunslingers where their people I will always just admired so much in a way it's like comedians people who can kind of put it all on the line the way that card players do there there's

42:23no guarantee that they can even eat next week or pay their rent next week but something tells them like I have to pursue this and I I wouldn't have the guts to really do that I love plant poker but I would never have cashed it and I mean I didn't quit my job to start writing movies I was responsible about it you know I was like well I have to do this in the morning for two hours and then I'm gonna go to work because I have a family these people are willing to just go like I'm gonna I'm gonna try I think I can be this thing I think I can beat you and I think I'm smarter and sharper and and so that idea that's what we wanted to communicate right more than and then at that point I wasn't directing that movie day so it was like well John will find a way to do that other piece it was very important that the actors and it seemed smart enough cool enough aware enough have the emotional depth to play it and then I I felt like well it'll find an audience we just wanted that movie to be like what Diner was for us when we grew up Diner Harold Ramus movies that we would know

43:24them by heart and quote them and know every single word and we just wanted rounders to be the kind of thing that other guys would feel that way about so when that was the end result that's it we got everything we wanted out of it it was completely satisfying not a commercial success when it first came out you know what's refreshing to hear you say because everyone else has that story that I wanted this movie made and I quit my job and I was getting kicked out of my apartment and nobody on my credit card yeah yeah I put it on my credit card and I was about to get arrested and my kids were being thrown out in the street but I fought and it's like here you finally cut through the bullshit and go no no I kept my job I'm not a fucking idiot just see what I'll tell you you know I was like just getting back to my dad so because my dad someone really came up from the streets you know I think he went to seven colleges and graduated none and you know it's been a life knocking

44:27around to finally like find a way to get some success and worked with artists whole life I remember I went to him and I said you know I really realized this right at this time I and I probably was thinking I'd quit what I was going to do and I said you know dad I I really think I need to be a writer you know the writers are able to access their inner thing and the distance between the thing and you know I can really express the incoherit rage in me and if I just and so maybe I shouldn't he just looks at me and he was just sitting on his bed I remember and he just looks at me and he goes you want to write right simple and I said yeah so he goes I'm not gonna quit your job what do you like an animal I mean how are you gonna how are you gonna you gonna eat quit your job and I was great I was like oh yeah of course I don't have to quit my job I just have to get up earlier it's yes it's so important I quit my job if it's so fucking important get up at six yeah right if I told you if you got up at six

45:33you could get a fucking blowjob from Christy Turlington you'd get up at six right yeah get up at six where does the where do the great tail come from the the Oreo cookies in the in rounders just something you guys were you were searching for the tail because it's such a big reveal I was one of those things I'm sure like when you told me how you write when you're on stage Gilbert we just knew in that first scene was we were writing it that we wanted the Oreo we didn't know that it was for a tell we just knew we wanted that character when the guy comes to the door and looks through the this you know slot in the door we wanted Teddy KGB to be eating something and sort of have a you know very satisfied look on his face and so we just put oh he's eating Oreos then so we established the Oreos and then we put them in a couple of times and then when we wanted to tell we realized oh yeah it should just be the Oreo then we went back and then made the way he ate the Oreo significant each time and then Malchavitch added

46:35the ear to it and that says you know actors when they you know great actors you've met some good great actors will take your thing and they won't try to change it or go like well what if instead we use a grape but they'll take the thing you give them and then they'll make it even richer better deeper and that's like Malchavitch did so respectfully and nicely and hey I have this thought and he just started like when he would open him listening to him and to just add it and communicate it to the audience what was going on in a much more clear way and you worked with him again and knock around guys love that guy is so smart such a great actor so now it's Malchavitch he's one of those people I always watch and go is this guy a nut in real life is he a pain in the ass he's a brilliant person no I mean I would he is with it among the very easiest people to work he's a super super smart person you know read everything reads ten you know knows everything in every newspapers read every book speaks every language

47:37he's a brilliant person so he's he doesn't suffer if you're an asshole he can give it you know if you're a jerk he can really take care of you but he's if he senses that you're working as hard as he's working there's nobody better he just will give you everything he has and and he was invaluable to us like on knock around guys when let's say a producer was trying to you know oh if you know the overtime or whatever John just quietly come up quietly come up to us and say I'm yeah I can tell you if you do this you'll the crew will do that to do that thing and John constantly protected us all the time that's totally the different opposite image I always had of him yeah of course because he's so good yeah and watching in the movies I always think oh this guy's got to be the biggest pain no he can obviously he can access this incredible inner rage and he he's again if someone like if you lied to John I mean under you're dealing with this incredibly smart person with an enormous emotional range but he's got a

48:40wickedly great sense of humor and if he thinks you're all right he's a delight don't fucking lie to that guy don't try to con him and everything's in the acting range I mean he's played to play to play a scumbag like he does in in rounders and then you think about the character in places in the heart where he's just the most sympathetic the blind man oh no there's nothing he can't do oh and think about him in the the killing fields right we're dangerous liaison and we keep naming him out so what he's and I just something to every time burn after reading yeah my memoir you know you I just had a flashback where you're talking about your father and I thought like I also like had a father who actually worked for living right who actually got his hands dirty you dad on the hardware store oh yeah yeah in Brooklyn where like nothing but he knew he could you know there was no calling someone in to work on the apartment he would start bashing down the wall rewire plaster it painted and he knew how to do this stuff and and you know

49:46got next to no money at a scrounge for it and it's so funny whenever I think whenever I'm offered a job or I'm at a job and I'm thinking oh god this is the worst I can't believe and I'm thinking okay if I was sitting in the room with my father now well what would he think of me bitching that I got to tell a couple of jokes at a comedy club in Hawaii no the way in which people who do the things that we do are indulged and then you get the worst part is that you become a cut you don't even you're not even aware of the fact that you're just living in a bubble oh yeah and that you're so protected and that you are that the things that feel like the high that's why you know in our country even I mean they're you know 30% of the country living in poverty but for the the other people you know if you take resources away for like just two days it's pure anarchy yes and then you've seen

50:46it that's like that's like there are at least about six twilight zone yeah where they shut the lights down the Martians shut the lights down and the whole town turns on each other but all the things sure all the things that we think you know during the course of your day are an annoyance like oh what if the construction happens out to the window and people can't hear our podcast perfectly oh yes we fly into a frenzy how about if tomorrow I took the fucking water away yeah you want to write right so you basically said I think I'm gonna write movies and within a couple of months there you are with John Malkovich and and Martin Landau and Matt Damon and that has that had to be I mean do you pinch yourself even now yeah oh yeah I have total awareness of how lucky the whole thing has been hundred percent you know you're aware again not spoiling myself every night that's my dick joke that I was gonna throw on I was

51:48gonna say if there's if there's is it is it is it's doing it now no dragons are Vaseline I just dragons are Vaseline just now you know you know I just remember I when talking about that thing of working and not I remember one time leaving the set of Hollywood squares and it was a little longer that day well that's a shitty job yeah yeah listen but I remember I had a driver to take me back to the hotel I'm sitting in the back of the car and the driver said how was your day and I started to go oh you know this is like the word and then at all of a sudden the other part of my brain said okay you went you were driven to work you had breakfast you told three jokes broke for lunch told another three jokes and I'm now being driven back to you but you actually had the presence of mine to connect that right yes yes I I caught myself that's great

52:49yes I caught myself because I was about to say like oh you know you should really feel bad for me this was a horrible day horrible day is the center square yes he wasn't even lucky enough to be the center square let let's talk a little bit about oceans 13 and sure yeah let's see the Soderberg how did you how did all this come to be that was great which I just rewatched by the way and there's so and so did you do that Damon movies yes did you catch the godfather reference when Elliott Goulds on the bed we're not children here I know you caught the godfather the candy shack one the Paul anchor quotes no there are two quotes in oceans 13 from Paul anchor's rant at his band how did you miss it Frank your entire job here is to catch that so disappointed in my sense that you are here Paul I can not buddy rich that's the fucking way it's done there are two he says first of all he says right to George Clooney when I move I

53:54slice like a fucking hammer oh I love it Al Pacino says that and he says don't make a maniac out of me right off the pole I miss them both I am crushed that you didn't have that right I was so sure you would know they're a little catty shack when somebody says is it is it Scott Khan says hey how about a little something for the effort yeah there's there's and there are tons of godfather references but the Paul anchor ones and I had to this was so I because of Steinberg and my dad I know Paul and you know you're writing these things when you write a script you know you're you're you're writing it you're putting everything in it you're not censoring yourself you just wanted to be totally entertaining so we put the Paul anchor stuff and we'd given cheap and we gave out the tapes to listen to because we were like this is kind of how your guy is hilarious so we give him the tapes to listen to Ivanka at the band he loves it he's like give me more of those lines if you can yeah so we write a few of them in there there are a few of them in there it's great my favorite is I sliced like a fucking hammer because you know hammers don't slice right no that's what makes it funny you're gonna catch your wondering that's where the I love that wait so but then I realized the movie was coming out and I had to call Mr. Anka because I

55:01couldn't have him go to the movie theater because you know he is one of the last of those two genuinely tough saloon singers oh yes I want to last guys around that work intimately with Sinatra right I mean he's and you know the Sinatra's a runner throughout the whole movie our fascination with Sinatra handshake and all that stuff and so I had to call Paul and and I said you know I just want you to know there's an homage you know as long as you're calling a lot there's an homage to he was he was just a total delight kid I'm sure you took great care of me that's great you know just what you want to exactly what you want to hear get in the game with the college branded Venmo debit card record team with every tap and earn up to 5% cashback with Venmo stash a new rewards program from Venmo no monthly fee no minimum balance just school pride and spending power get in the game and sign up for the Venmo debit card at Venmo.com slash college card the Venmo master card is issued by the bank

56:03court bank NA select schools available Venmo stash terms and exclusions apply at Venmo.me slash stash terms max $100 cashback per month not sure how to tackle your taxes are you sweating the small print you may be experiencing FOMO the fear of messing up the answer using turbo tax on into a credit karma they help you get your biggest refund and then we help you do more with it with a personalized plan designed to help you hit your money goals it's time to take your taxes to the max start filing today in the credit karma app now what did you think of the first ocean so I mean you mean the one from the fifth oh yeah yeah that's the red I listen I have an endless fascination with the relationships there's there is you could put Sinatra at the sands on anytime that album and I'm gonna listen to it all the way through it's my favorite I just wish I could jump into it right you know what is the line what do you say the meaning what what are all these people doing in my room in my yeah in my

57:05yeah in my right yeah in my room that the line that he used every night yeah we're all yeah people doing in my room but they did seem fresh every time yeah of course and I think both Sinatra and Dean Martin use that line yeah that line too what's a drunk line yeah right yeah why don't these people doing that right yeah but would Dean Dean would do it when he was performing on stage or as a guy I think so I've heard him do that a few times so like I'm totally you know I think they were probably in lots of ways horrible guys to be around certain ways and you wouldn't but but to have just rolled with them for a weekend would have probably been the if you could have somehow hung in and just surfed behind them you know surfed their wake I always think I always think they'll never really make an honest biography about the rat pack or Martin and Lewis yeah it's very hard to that one movie I mean I think Cheetle's great as in that movie as a Sammy yeah Sammy and but I mean all of it fascinating to me you know

58:06brother-in-law for like all of it is amazing the movie I think we all can acknowledge is a piece of shit yeah but the those guys and the way that movie came together which is the best part of that movie the rat pack does show in a great way how they all decided to make that movie together and it's great how like law forgot rope to you know how they all sort of like did it for a variety of reasons and to be out there but I know you guys I'm sure you've read that that that I don't know if you know it's the guy's name Bill Zimi oh yeah the guy that writes the guy writes about late night TV yeah he wrote this amazingly great not Bill Carter Bill Zimi Z.E.H.M.E. he wrote this amazing thing about when about Sinatra back then like for Vanity Fair and then I think it might have ended up in a book but he talks about this moment which is it was in the morning and suddenly coming across the they're all had villas around the pool in Vegas and suddenly the doors to a couple of them opened and Sammy and Joey

59:09Bishop and probably not Dean let's say Sammy Joey Bishop Peter Lawford one other of them started running across the pool and someone said what's going on what do you what's going on and Sammy said Frank's up right hilarious yeah what are they doing just waiting in there they're not allowed out until he's up or they're just sitting there can they order room service what can they do you know my problem with the Cheetle character and those movies is that you know they're doing the usual stuff they're like Italian gangsters and Jews you mean in the Sinatra movies yeah oh in the rap pack yeah yeah not the cheer you mean the Sammy Davis not the Cheetle yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and it's like so they're doing the usual like I where they pick them up I'd like to thank the NAACP for this award and then they show him with like tears in his eyes and I've taken no I I don't think so they show that oh I

1:00:11think that's a good moment they show that one moment where no he goes along with it Sammy and then yes they linger on his eyes for one second but you know I don't think any of us can know what do you think you know what Sammy was feeling I don't know my guess is Sammy knew he was getting pussy and money I don't know you really do you think Sammy was I think I think probably there were times that Sammy went back to his room I mean if you were able to have second thoughts in the car after Hollywood squares it's a perfect analogy you don't think there were moments that Sammy went the Sammy by the way you know was the most talented of all of them which brought I mean well you know the kid could dance and you can play the drums and the bass and sing and all of it you know the key ever went back closed the door and was just like mother fuckers not if Kim Novak was that sure oh yeah yeah all right so it's a little mitigator there's three minutes and then but then after that he goes oh boy that

1:01:15black choke that Dino may do that are you familiar with that story of Frank and Dino and the president of Hunts foods no please tell oh god you're on me that's good the president of Hunts foods his son of daughter was getting married and he was having dinner with the parents of the you know they're the in-laws and so they were having dinner and Frank and Dean are bombed out of this goals and yelling they own Vegas so they do what they want and he asked them if they could hold it down a little because they were having a nice dinner there and Frank and Dean beat the shit out of the owner of Hunts foods he fell through a glass table and it was in a coma for a while I think he he lived with some problems for the rest of his life and the creepiest part of the

1:02:20story they said the president of Hunts foods did not press charges yes horrible that's that let you a little taste of how creepy that it really was I know someone who's a dinner with Frank towards the end like it within the last four or five years of Frank's life and they were at a restaurant in Florida and they were bringing around a dessert cart you know you hear the story oh wait you probably know the person who it was never told on a podcast or any but I mean it's a story that is true and someone told me the dessert cart's coming around and I guess there's a piece of pecan pie and with the big thing of you know whipped cream on top of it and Frank says I'll take that I'll take the pecan pie and I guess it's great Mr. Snatchin starts wheeling the car to weigh in such as Nick I said I'll take the I'll take the pie and he says no don't know this is only for show we have to go back you don't tell me I want the pie Mr. and everyone at the table saying I really don't think you should

1:03:46give me the pie so we put the thing down and it's it's not whipped cream you know it's Chris go so it doesn't so it doesn't melt on the display card it's a show pie with Chris go on the top of it Lord and so Frank goes that good and he fucking dips his spoon and puts the Chris go thing in his mouth and the person who's there said his face turn really goes what the fuck is this what kind of joke you trying to pull on me boom goes the card boom goes the table just destroys the entire place so let's bust that up he's like you know 74 and he just destroys the place wrecks it and the so the person I know it's like where are you all going to you know what's going to happen are we going to jail because everyone's just standing around like in the good fell asleep and Frank has just destroyed everything and then the manager guy was with him just took out a lot of like 20,000 in cash and said you know how do we how do we make this go away oh wow you always walk

1:04:47to them if you went to dinner you had to bring like 20k because you knew at any moment one of the things that's always been super compelling to me to try to figure out and you've been around so many of these people is like what's lost in the list is Frank was a great great great artist like the greatest of the great yes I mean you you listen to in the wee small hours you listen to any like any of 10 of those albums and singles he was able to communicate like you know this incredible amount of depth and beauty and artistry and break your heart and inspire you and you'd want to follow them to the ends of the earth and somehow he was able to tap into this what some essential thing about the human condition like about what we are in the way that he would communicate these songs perfect pitch he knew he could tell you if the third bassoon was out you know and then somehow he's able to take that thing off like break your heart and then just go beat the shit out of some poor I just said what is it is it a life of being is it just being that indulged that's it that's range it's that's

1:05:50range it's I know what do you think that is Gilbert it's but I was thinking it's kind of like that scene on the godfather with James Conn smashes a guy's camera and then throws a water bills down on the ground oh sure yes sure that's probably for the Don's instructions so that you don't get in trouble but you know you know what's what I think of two it's like that idea of like separating the artist from who they are yes it's a very it's kind of hard to do though yeah it is it's impossible like I am not going to admire this Lenny reefing stall yeah great eye for composition great eye for composition because she did all these propaganda films building up the third right and I'm supposed to go yes but did you see that scene I know but like it makes Adolf look like a god but I may but we're all able to forget like with Frank I like

1:06:51I said I listened to that I listen to his music and I'm a rock and roll yeah I don't listen to I but I listen to Frank all the time and you forget you just swept away in this thing so yes to Sammy feel that way I'm I have to think there's no chance Sammy didn't know because he was a bright guy yeah that he didn't know there's something I'm selling something I'm selling out something kind of essential about myself but I'm doing it he had to know that he he had made some kind of a deal with himself now now that my guess they was all like the controversy when they cut off Frank Sinatra at the Grammys or something I don't know if you remember that and Billy Joel was angry about everybody was saying and and I heard that Frank toward the end like they said there was one roast of him and he was up at a podium talking and he was rambling and they sent out as a joke this famous black boxer will say Muhammad Ali I don't know who and to like take Frank's drink away from him like a boy and and he says

1:07:57to this famous fighter he goes no I am not through with that drink when I am through with that drink then you could take it away and it's like he thought it was the waiter yeah Frank Sinatra ladies and gentlemen yes all right so we want to ask you about caper movies but sure I do want to ask you this we're running out of time okay so you may oh wait wait before we go here's a joke silver's chewing gold and silver's choking on his own genius here's a joke that brings poker for your your movie rounders yeah this brings poker and the dick joke great okay a guy's playing poker a guy's playing poker he gets a call from his

1:08:59wife his wife says hey it's late get home right now and the guy says I can't go home now I've got a stack of quarters the size of my dick and the wife says well take your seventy five it's a great joke nothing to me tops your Paul the Paul Lynn joke that you told the other podcast maybe two weeks ago I think to weird out oh that's my maybe my favorite joke maybe my favorite I've made several appearances on the show that may be my favorite one that is in case anyone missed it yes in case anyone missed it or in case anyone wants to hear what you have to say Gilbert was on Robert Osborne show and he picked he picked five movies he was he was a guest and he was asked to pick program for the evening he picked the swimmer yeah and for and Todd Browning's freaks and the French connection and a couple of no no not the conversation the conversation excuse me yeah those are all great right and the original of mice and men with Loncini and Burgess Merritt so we have to ask the filmmaker what besides

1:10:04treasure this year the price of that is the Paul Lynn joke okay you'll get the Paul Jake Paul Lynn was where Barnard now with guests Paul Lynn because I want to tell it to Yoko the next time I see her perfect the next time you're freezing naked next to Yoko I promise if I see her again I'll tell her this joke if you tell her right now wherever I am you'll knock on her chamber yeah and so Paul in so Paul Lynn why not at least the third appearance of the perfect you're come on it's a perfect joke this is basically like talking to your old relative and go did I ever tell you about the time and I said yeah you told me this fifty times already but so Paul in was booked in this place to perform and it looked like an old barn that was remade into a theater a really

1:11:05shitty place and he he looks around and goes this place smells like a cunt I think I wish I wish we had video so you could see Brian compliment leaping out of his chair he just did the wall to use the dance from church yeah Paul didn't hate it the Jews you know that you're gonna say the joke which I bet you would have liked he hated the Jews I have it confirmed when I was on Hollywood squares the producer was the same producer and he said that during the lunch hour only other guests would get together and be having lunch and you know telling stories and laughing and there don't be a lot of fun and Paul Lynn would be bombed out of his skull and he was an angry angry drunk and he would go oh those fucking Jews Hitler said the killed all of them

1:12:11that's Jews of the race and I don't have a career did you ever meet him no no no I wonder but I I I think you should write the TV movie because he was he was fucking one of these young boys or the boy was fucking him and then well Frank should write it Frank the writer you have a little time no you should I think it's a great way to the Paul and the Paul in story I meant to good writer well that's not our five movies want five about Jim J Bullock and the Paul and story that's that was that working for you well you see we can't say Palillo anymore yeah give me five give me five movies and the guy he was with ran out he panicked and they say Paul and actually could have lived had this guy called the ambulance the is that oh really yeah yeah and the guy didn't want to be oh yeah he got to he panic right and made a run for it and other people tell me Frank's not your kill Paul over it can't do it junior because because Paul

1:13:16Lynn was in on the Kennedy assassination so Frank what's awesome is the percentage of people listening who know who Paul and even they do know that's the best like I have to say that's like the best part of the Paul and joke from it I'm 48 and I'm barely not why the joke is good people who worked with Paul and don't remember Paul I remember Murph Griffin always would have foreign girls with foreign accents well Jojo Gabo was the biggest but they would always manage to accidentally say something risky and like they had no idea of course what if that was the big thing like they would go oh I I went out for a blood job and then they go oh I'm in dinner I like to suck a cock I mean no I meant I like to take a nap I like getting fucked in the end no no I mean I

1:14:26enjoy oh why I don't know what Murph Griffin showed you watching you're saying Paul Lynn isn't really sure what the barn you're saying you're he's not sure what the barn smells like he has he has a feeling from what he's heard yes from what he's gathered yes from what he's gathered but he doesn't have personal surprising I don't want to reveal something I don't want to talk at a school but Paul Lynn I think was gay so that's the joke I got it joke is how could he know that it smelled like that I know I like that I didn't know why now I know that it's great because I think Paul Lynn didn't get a lot of pussy right so then he how do you know yes he's not gonna know that's helpful that you've helped a lot of people now the Godfather too okay I'm writing them down the Godfather too because I watched the other night again I watched tonight's in a row actually you know

1:15:28you it's not as much fun to watch as the Godfather but it's it's a single moment and I okay I you know there are great mysteries you guys answered the greatest mystery about the movie went to Annie was on the show which by the way if they're if podcast I mean I think there are podcasts awards but you did the Danny L.O. episode the best podcast I know it was gonna do all year and I say that as someone with my own podcast called the moment by the way with compliment and would you get on iTunes but when I L.O. answered the question it's that's haunted me my whole like I watch that movie for someone I was a little boy you know the question of why Michael Corleone says hello when it's not Michael Corleone is killing him and Danny told you that he just made it up yeah yeah and couple it was like go with it but the other thing that's always been a mystery to me is why Michael decides to have Fredo bring the two million because nothing has changed in his view of Hyman Roth or he interesting nothing is changed he goes down there Hyman Roth doesn't he's figuring out that Hyman's bad

1:16:29he hasn't he thinks so ahead of time he's not sure whether it's right right why does he say storytelling wise why is it nothing changes he doesn't renegotiate the amount Hyman Roth wants two million and he has Freddie bring the two million and the last time I watched it the key is when they're sitting at that outside outside veranda talking he wanted Freddie down there so he could look at him and figure out if Freddie was the rat and the way he he needed to give Fredo a job in this thing and find a reason for Fredo to come down there when he gets Fredo down there now he's sitting with him now and you watch Michael's expression when Fredo was saying you know usually you watch Fredo when he's saying why couldn't we've been like this before why couldn't you know and we know because we've watched the movie much times the regret that Fredo has the feet you see when you watch it next time don't look at Fredo during that scene only look at Michael during that scene see now that's the definition of a great film yes that no matter how many times you're always finding something well you are and you just watch watch Michael watching Fredo and you go oh my god he the whole

1:17:30reason he has him there is he's gonna figure this thing out and it's breaking his heart but he's Michael's gone over that's the moment when you know Fredo's right there on the veranda Michael knows everything and he's just waiting for the final piece it's awesome why did godfather three suck to high heaven I left the fucking vacation early I was on a working you know this one was a Christmas vacation I and I came home early to see the fucking movie because I was on an island somewhere I flew home to see that piece oh shit and I mean he's the greatest director nobody's movies have made me want to do this like you know it's the transfer couple the comb brothers Barry Levinson Scorsese Quentin there's Spike Lee they're these but you know he's the ultimate I mean the conversation is as good as anything else watched it that's the two godfather movies fucking apocalypse now would be the best movie if you're not transfer copula that's the best movie you've made apocalypse now it's one of the great moves but boy did everybody just whiff on that thing it's kind of like I feel like no one in godfather three ever watched the first two I think it comes

1:18:32down to something really simple I've given this too much thought I just think it's as simple as them not paying Duval really don't think about the moment Tom Hagen's not in that he's the anchor of those movies the moment Tom Hagen's not there to be the person looking at Michael for us Tom Hagen processes the change in Michael Corleone he's right from the beginning talking to him at the wedding he's there the whole time he's the guy in the second movie who's his change and his watching Michael change and then when you don't have that guy who was the other connection to Don Corleone and to Sonny it can't work then you have to make not suddenly you just make up the story couple there's nothing tethering him to the the world Mario Puzzo yeah they're a lot of problems I think that's like yes but they I think they come from that because then you have to invent the Joe Montana character right then you have to invent all these other things you had to be passionate for making it he spent 25 years avoiding it yeah it's very difficult and when you watch you know Pacino and godfather two and one where he's so quiet and intense where it

1:19:38looks like he's not doing anything and then in three you feel like he's chewing the scenery oh yeah yeah you say cold could you pull it back a little you know okay so godfather two is why I heard a great Pacino story the other day I'm gonna tell this is not my story it's Hank his area story but I'm telling it Hank I'm telling your story okay Hank there was once in a barn yeah and he said you gotta get his area you guys have to get Hank his area on this show he'd be a perfect guest for you guys but big fan he's on the movie heat with Pacino and Pacino it's late at night and they're gonna do that scene where he says you know a great ass you know Michael Mann who's direct in a real that movie is famous for working people very hard and for very many hours and and Michael Mann is also like you know super cool it like the way one of these guys you know leather Jack the perfect leather jacket the perfect way whatever even it however old and because they're working so much you know actors will often say to a

1:20:39director tell me where I am in the story and so Pacino says to Michael Mann you know where are we where am I in the story and Michael Mann leads it's three in the morning they're working Michael Mann goes well you know you're coming from a place Bobby to near Bobby just Jackpot did you you were Jackpotted by Bobby and now you got Hank here you're Jackpot in him because what you're trying to do is you know you're trying to put Bobby in a Jackpot and where you can do that is you're gonna Jackpot Hank here you got him wrapped up in a Jackpot because you got Jackpotted by him and you're furious because they're out there this motherfucker Jackpot you and now looks at him and just goes I have no idea what you just said it's great it's okay Godfather 2 I would have to put a cone brothers movie on there the big Lebowski if we're doing it is not my five favorite movies while time just what I would want to do a program you know you could say Miller's crossing but I'll say instead I'll say but I'll

1:21:40stay Lebowski I'm only gonna do one from any filmmaker I would say good fell as Diner Diner for sure and I would love and and I have to end it end it early the next morning a sentimental pick perhaps it's between it's between Bridge on the River Quai which is not the sentimental pick between that and Groundhog Day hmm just something from Harold Rames but but bridge on the River Quai is something that everybody needs to see but don't you think but you know you know it's funny I was watching a documentary yeah left out loud I was watching a documentary on the actual River Quai that whole thing the whole story from the oh really being these people you know English and Americans help prisoner by the Japanese and they were telling what was going on there and they said outside of the concentration camps the worst

1:22:41treatment of anyone was those who are holding them hostage you know right before you know what that's seen when the guy gets put in that hot thing he gets put what do you call that thing that hot box oh yeah right before Yoko Mono went in there really yeah because he was gonna get in the hot box and then yeah oh okay what other podcast covers the bridge on the River Quai and Dustin Diamond beating the shit out of Ron Polillo thanks for doing this Brian was fun this anything else you want to plug besides the podcast anything else coming out there's a show that'll come out on showtime but not for a while we're starting to shoot in January it's called billions Dave and I wrote it with the journalist Andrew Russ Sorkin starring Paul Giamatti and Damien Lewis and really excited about that my podcast the moment with Brian Coleman and Gilbert I have to tell you I didn't tell you this when I was in college they had this game show called remote control remember it on MT

1:23:44yeah and they went around the colleges to audition people to be on this game show and they at my school tufts 300 people showed up for this audition they picked three out of 300 I was picked and the way I was picked so they would call you up to the stage you would get up there and they would say tell us something or do something I was in the audience and they said you know Brian Cobbleman come up to the stage and right from my seat I went stop too much and stop no more enough and I did it for I just did three minutes of you walking up and on to the stage I never opened my eyes the thing and they picked me to go on the show so thank you wow yeah 19 and that was a 19 I was doing God Freedom Presence back in 87 so you owe me your career the whole thing happened from being remote control that's right so thank you wow thank you for that do a little more Gilbert before we stop stop it's too much it's enough already enough stop it's more than I can take it's not even fair it's not

1:24:46nice it's not it's beyond nice well that was either Brian Cobbleman or Gilbert Godfried saying that that's enough and so it's too much yeah it's too much so we have been talking to in Cobbleman and and I still don't know what the fuck you do but that's not important we've been talking to screenwriter Brian Cobbleman and this has been Gilbert Godfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host Frank Santo Pottery if you like listening to comedy try watching it on the internet the folks behind the side show network have watched a new YouTube channel called wait for it it's got interviews with comedians like

1:25:50Reggie Watts, Todd Glass, Liza Slicinger, Slicing Draven Friends with her for 10 years one of the funniest people out there and I still have a hard time with the last name Liza our very own Owen Benjamin that's me takes you on a musical journey down internet rabbit holes and much more you don't have to wait any longer just go to youtube.com slash wait for comedy there's no need to wait for it anymore because it's here and it's funny and I love you a few days ago Brooke Tudeen posted an inspirational quote on her wall they got 17 likes and three comments thumbs up Brooke Geico also wants to make a comment in just 15 minutes you could save hundreds of dollars on your car insurance by switching to Geico and nothing says inspiration better than saving money well except for those posters that say things like teamwork excellence and make it happen hashtag keep climbing hashtag savings Geico 15

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