Germany's far-right AfD wins state election

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello, this is Alex Ritson from the Global News Podcast. We're bringing you the latest on that decisive victory for the far right AFD party in Germany's eastern state of Saxony and Holt. Join us to hear the day's top stories from BBC News to live a twice a day on weekdays daily at weekends. Search for the Global News Podcast wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Welcome to News Hour Live from the BBC in London. I'm Gary O'Donnell-Hew.

1:04We begin with what could be an immensely significant political moment for post-war Germany. That's the sound of supporters of the far right AFD celebrating a landslide election victory in the former East German state of Saxony and Holt. It was the biggest win for the far right in Germany since the Nazi era. The party more than doubled its support, taking around 44% of the vote. Though it felt just short of a majority of seats in the state parliament. It was a very bad result for the German Chancellor Friedrich Merz and his centre-right CDU party, so its vote halved. Speaking through an interpreter in the past couple of hours, he said the result had shaken his party to the core. We are all deeply shocked. We didn't expect it like this and in this way.

2:07Obviously we need to accept it. These are the rules of our democracy and yet yesterday signaled a change, not just in Saxony and out of Germany. What happens next, our Europe correspondent Jessica Parker, is in Saxony and Holt's capital, Magdeburg. Maybe we are going to see some protracted behind the doors and negotiations. Could they enter into what's known as a tolerance deal, a bit like a confidence supply deal with a smaller party called BSW, which doesn't sign up to the firewall where by other parties won't work with alternative for Deutschland, won't allow them to go into power if possible. Another option maybe is a very messy minority-led coalition by the Conservative CDU party, but of course they had a terrible night. There are difficulties in figuring out who's going to actually form a government here in Saxony and Holt, and run local services like schools, like policing, like culture,

3:10the sorts of things the state government has control over. But while people will be keeping an eye on that, you can't lose sight of the fact this is a record result for alternative for Deutschland, a party that inspires passionate support. As well, I think for Germany, some people openly compare alternative for Deutschland to the Nazi party. Now, this is a characterization of the AFD absolutely rejects, but I think the rise of the far-right in Germany, people always talk about how Germany has this particular history, its dark past, and for some people this is a turning point that they are potentially very worried about. Our Europe correspondent Jessica Parker, with the AFD falling just short of the number of seats for an outright majority, it will now have to try to negotiate a way of getting its leader elected as state premier in order to form a government. That will be tricky since most mainstream parties in Germany refuse to cooperate with the AFD.

4:12And the political maths involved here mean that it would require all the other parties to get together to reach a majority, and that would create some very awkward and incompatible bedfellows. Ultimately, there could be fresh elections, which would give the AFD a shot at getting that outright majority. Well, earlier, my colleague Andrew Peach spoke to the German member of Parliament and Deputy Leader of the AFD, Birch von Storck, how does she explain the result? Because people want to shift their politics. They are fed up with the direction we are walking towards, and they want something else. We are only short by three seats for the absolute majority of the seats, and this shows what's going on, not only in this region of Germany, it's starting off in all of the rest of Germany as well. When you say people want something different, what is it they want that you're offering? We are offering to stop mass migration. We are offering to stop adapting our country to Islam majorities.

5:14We do not want to spend our money in the world, but do not have money for our own people. We do not want to pay for Ukraine, for the wars, with what we don't have for our own people. And of course, people are just tired of this leftist, focused social politics. We gain support in all those areas. When it comes to competencies, we are leading all the polls. So it's not only for migration politics, that people think we are the most competent. It's also on economics and all the other areas. Even if you end up running a Saxony and Halton, that is still an effort this stage, even though you've got the largest number of votes. What difference can you make to any of those things? You can't run the German economy, you can't even dictate German migration policy. This is the beginning. We will have another regional elections in two weeks. And then there will be a huge debate about Mert, our chancellor. This is already starting off whether he can run the country any longer or not, because they realize that their numbers are breaking apart.

6:17So yes, of course, Saxony and Halton, it's not all of Germany, but it's the beginning. I wanted to get us down and stop us from existing as a party. And now we are talking about taking over a regional government. We are only short by three seats. And again, if the CDU tries to run the country against the will of the people, they will lose in the next election and the next. But you'll know that there are examples elsewhere. France is an obvious one, but there are others from elsewhere in the world, whereby if other parties decide that their priority is to shut you out, they can do it unless you have a majority and you don't have a majority. So the other parties could all choose to work together and leave you out of government, even in the region that alone more widely. What the other countries show France, you just mentioned, and even UK, and Italy is that the conservative parties who used to run their countries, they disappear completely if they stop listening to the people. And this is what we offer. We're listening to the people.

7:18And then secondly, then we go into a debate and then we see what's up for compromise. The chancellor's party, CDU, want to stay into power in this region where they just lost the elections. They have to go into coalition with the far left party. And they're very famous at the very moment in Germany because they're openly basically supported by Islamist, they are chanting, yalla, yalla, intifada at their campaign races. It's an open problem. It's a, it's a, the CDU goes into compromise with them. They will certainly lose people will have heard you say that. You're talking a lot about your opponents having just won the intellectual, but Taurus is the largest party in the election yourself. I've got one final question for you, Beatrix, and it's this. Obviously we're on the BBC World Service. You're broadcasting to people far beyond Germany. Some of them will be alarmed to turn on the radio today and hear that Germans have elected a far right party for the first time since the Second World War. What can you say to reassure people listening in other countries?

8:19When it comes to labeling us as far right, it's because we want to stop mass migration and the Islamization of our country. This is what we do not want. And this is backed by almost the majority in this state where we just had the election. And this is supported also by the majority of the voters of the other parties. So I think one should stop labeling us and start talking with us and then change the direction politics is heading towards. And then we will see solutions. Beatrix von Storck speaking to my colleague Andrew Peach, a little earlier. The CDU saw its support in Saxony and Halt Crater in yesterday's elections. It's been the dominant party in the state since German reunification. But it maintains its firewall or brandmar around preventing it from cooperating with the AFD. And it's looking increasingly likely that it will not be able to form an administration even with the support from all the other parties.

9:19Jürgen Hart is a CDU member of the German Parliament of Bundestag. He's also a spokesman on foreign policy. I asked him why his party had done so badly. I think the election in Saxony, Unhalt was very much stimulated by a contest between the two candidates. There was a very young and charismatic AFD leader who is not typical for AFD politicians, but typical for East German political approach and behavior. And I think he performed very well. And on the other hand, I think the voters in Saxony, Unhalt also wants to show a signal to the federal politics that something needs to be changed. It's a hell of a signal, isn't it? I mean, you heart your vote was more than half. They doubled their support. This is an earthquake in German politics, more than a signal. It was a shocking result. I expected and we all expected that AFD will perform well in these elections,

10:25maybe coming close to a absolute majority in the parliament. But the drop of votes for CDU is the alarming signal. But to be frank, Saxony Unhalt is a state with about two million inhabitants. We had elections in spring in Germany, in Bad Württemberg and in Rheinland-Politijen, where in both countries CDU performed very well in Rheinland-Politijen. We won the election and now having the Prime Minister. And in Bad Württemberg we are I2I to the governing party, Green Party in a coalition. And the mind and mood on Friedrich Merz and on the federal policy of CDU was not significantly better in spring than it did now. Therefore, no reason for panning, but we have to think about our performance and we have to think about our communication to the people, especially in East Germany. So it sounds like you're accepting that one way or another,

11:25the AFD, a far-right party, will control one of the lenders shortly for the first time since the Second World War. This is something as a result of elections in Germany. I have now to criticize the voters. I fear and I'm sure that most of those who vote for AFD last Sunday will not do it again in the next subsequent state elections and hopefully also not on federal elections. But up to today, I expect that Sigmund might become Prime Minister and then he has to show what he is able to do up to today. It's all a lip service and most of that what he promises to do is not possible for him to do due to legal restrictions and to to in-possibilities. And therefore, I think this potentially can be an eye-opener for all those who believe that AFD can change something

12:25or is a better alternative to show them that AFD is not good for Germany and not good for a state like Saxony Unite. Is it now time for the CDU to consider Frederick Mertz's leadership? I think not because we have a chancellor elected by a coalition. It's totally unlikely to change the political leadership in a period of a legislature. I think we have to work hard on our performance. This includes also the performance of the chancellor. But at the end of the year people will see that this government is much better than its image. And I expect that end of the year polls are better than now. And I also expect that the Social Democrats will keep the post of the Prime Minister in Mecklenburg for four-per-month in two weeks. And I also hope that the CDU in Berlin will be

13:26the best party in the world. And that was Jürgen Hart, a CDU member of the Bundesstuk German Parliament, speaking to me a little earlier. You're listening to News Air from the BBC World Service. MUSIC Coming up, the meteorologist who persuaded allied leaders to change the date of D-Day landings in 1944. The atmosphere was almost unbearably tense. Unerevocable decision had to be made. I had long had at the back of my mind the tactical use of weather. I had hoped that just such a set of circumstances would come about. A new film about him is out. We'll hear more about that in five minutes time. But a reminder of our main news today. Chancellor Mertz says that the AFD's decisive victory in state elections

14:29in East Germany, Eastern Germany has taken his Conservative CDU, shaken it to the core, signalling the need for a major reckoning. President Zelenskiy says his talks with Donald Trump's envoys centered on air defenses. MUSIC You're listening to News Air from the BBC World Service with me, Gary O'Donnell-Hugh. Now, Australia was the first country to introduce a ban on social media for the under-16s. Now, no government is planning to go further. Draft legislation expected this week will give Australians the option of switching off the algorithms that decide what appears in their social media feeds while placing new restrictions, new responsibilities on the tech companies to tackle harmful content. Ministers say it's about giving users more control and creating a digital duty of care.

15:34So how would it work in practice? And would it make social media more any safer? I've been speaking to Kate Mannell. She's a research fellow in digital childhoods at Deakin University in Melbourne. I asked her how the new work rules were expected to work. We don't have a huge amount of detail yet. Within this digital duty of care, one of the specific mechanisms that the government is saying will be included is this ability to opt out of recommendation algorithms. They haven't said exactly specifically what harms they're trying to target by introducing this, but reading between the lines of their comments and the motivations behind it, it appears that the idea is that you would, because you're not being recommended content, you might be less likely to be recommended harmful content. So it appears to be part of this ambition to make platforms more responsible for harmful content

16:36and by turning off recommendation algorithms, the idea seems to be that you might be less likely to be recommended harmful content. What if there's a logical problem there? Because even if it's random, it could still be harmful, I guess. Yeah, well, so what they're proposing that you would get a few opted out of the recommended content algorithm is that you would essentially get a feed of content that is chronological and is just content from people who you have chosen to follow. So it wouldn't be promoting content from accounts that you don't follow, which at the moment we get a lot of, and it wouldn't be optimised for engagement. Having said that, yes, your point still stands because of course the people you follow might post harmful content, so it's certainly not as simple as perhaps the government is currently making it out to be. This would undermine the companies sort of raise on debt, and part of the way they make their money is using these algorithms to recommend other stuff to you

17:42and advertising and things like that. Yeah, absolutely. And particularly the way that they have been optimised for engagement, to try to show you content that is most likely to keep you on the platforms so in moving away from or giving people an option to opt out of that algorithm, it would really be kind of going to the heart of their current business models. Yes, absolutely. Which means they're going to resist it, right? Presumably, yes, I would say so. Having said that, the settlement that they've just agreed to with the lawsuit in the US, apparently as part of the conditions of that settlement, they have agreed to give young users the ability to opt out of recommendation, personalised feeds, so perhaps there is a kind of writing on the wall around this anyway, and maybe there's a cumulative pressure there. I'm not sure it's hard to say exactly how they'll respond, but this growing pressure around their business models anyway.

18:45I guess some people might say, look, algorithms aren't always bad. Sometimes they bring you stuff you want and it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be harmful, but it does target you and you don't have to waste your time scrolling through stacks of stuff that you're not interested in. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, algorithms help us to find content that we're interested in. People find them really useful a lot of the time, also a lot of businesses rely on the visibility that they get through these kinds of recommendation algorithms. So one possibility is that people won't choose to opt out of them because actually they find them really useful. So perhaps it might be more helpful to not just think about a kind of on or off system, but actually asking more questions around what kinds of algorithms and can people have perhaps have more choice around the types of recommendation algorithms on their platforms. And that was Kate Mannell speaking to me a little earlier from Deakin University in Melbourne.

19:45Now, if there's one thing that unites the British, it's talking about the weather. This week sees a new film about what was perhaps the most important weather forecast in British history. The one that gave the go ahead for the D. Day Normandy landings on the 6th of June 1944. The extraordinary story behind it and that event and the man on whose shoulders it fell, James Stagg, has been turned into a movie starring Andrew Scott. David Silito went to meet him. Fade in the work, thousands of lives hinge on this. It's a film about D. Day, but more specifically, one man's contribution. The atmosphere was almost unbearably tense, an irrevocable decision had to be made. This is the voice of James Stagg. I had long had it the back of my mind, the tactical use of weather. I had hoped that just such a set of circumstances would come about that we should have been on the 5th of June.

20:47James Stagg and RAF meteorologist told General Eisenhower to postpone the invasion. I need a forecast. If you invade tomorrow, they're going to be washed away. There's a reason this film is called pressure. Why should I trust you? We must face the facts. The facts! I'll have a frightening baby! 82 years on I met Andrew Scott, the man now playing James Stagg. He appeared to me to be an extraordinarily interesting cinematic character, as well as an unsung hero from history. I really enjoyed the way that he was not interested in ingraceating himself with anybody. He's a bit chilly. He's chilly. He's definitely very chilly, very forthright, very direct and completely obsessed with the weather, and not afraid to speak truth to power. It's almost impossible to understand the level of jeopardy. One man is under. Absolutely. The stakes were so enormously high.

21:48It's wonderful that we can pay tribute to him in this way all these years later. 80 years later, suddenly. He's a movie hero. Exactly. I don't think he'd enjoy that very much. I tried not to be afraid of the fact that perhaps at the beginning of the audience might be like, who is this guy? Hopefully by the end we understand his motivations and his inner workings. What do you make of Stagg? Churchill says he's a genius. Man are too fond of that word. James Stagg's warning to the man in charge, General Eisenhower, saved the day. But it wasn't what Eisenhower wanted to hear. Speaking truth to power is a big thing. Huge thing. Might be a thing to take on board today. That's exactly right. And the celebration of experts. Yeah. And talking of experts, the film features archive material and employed a number of researchers,

22:49one of whom happened to have a familiar name. Some people were employed to sort through this archival footage and somebody came in and his name was Stagg and had no idea what the nature of the movie was. He said, that's my grandfather. And so completely serendipitously. He didn't know. He didn't know. He didn't know. You do research that worked towards the movie? Yes. Completely wonderful. There's something in the air. There isn't air. Something is in the air. That was really wonderful. Wild civilian written sleeps. History's great history is being written. And at the end, when D.D.A. succeeded, because of that prediction of a brief break in the weather, it was all over. A brief but intense moment in an epic struggle. Now the world of free men strikes in all its assembled might at the weakening chains of bondage. And David Silito was talking to Andrew Scott about his new film, Pressure, about the D.D.A. landings.

23:52You're listening to NewsHour with me, Gary O'Donach. Hello, this is Alex Ritson from the Global News Podcast. We're bringing you the latest on that decisive victory for the far-right AFD party in Germany's eastern state of Saxony and Holt. Join us to hear the day's top stories from BBC News to live a twice a day on weekdays daily at weekends. Search for the Global News Podcast wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Get more with BBC podcasts wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows like Evil Genius, Good Bad Billionaire and Your Dead To Me with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts, Add Free, with an Amazon Music subscription. You. Now in Ukraine, Kiev is suffering more daily air aid alerts than at any time since the Russian full-scale invasion in 2022.

24:58That's according to BBC Verify Analysis of government figures. There was a brief pause in attacks over the weekend while US envoys were in the Ukrainian capital. But in recent weeks, Russia's Round the Clock attacks with new faster drones have forced people to head for the shelters many, many times a day. Our diplomatic correspondent James Landau reports from Kiev. We've come to the scene of another strike right in the heart of Kiev. And it's a familiar scene. A building smoking is the fire caused by what we think was a drone. Lots of security nearby, fire engines trying to put the fire out, crowds forming. But here's the difference. This is broad daylight. This strike has not happened in the middle of the night. It happened shortly before 11 in the morning. This is now part of a pattern that's forming of more and more attacks during the day. We can't stay more than three hours without air alerts.

26:00Johan, a humanitarian volunteer, was meet as a way when the drone struck. It's not just about night, it's about day now. Analysis of official figures by the BBC shows Kiev has suffered more daily air-raid alerts than at any time since the full scale invasion in 2022. As many as 13 on a single day. And those attacks often now involve new jet-powered drones that are faster and harder to intercept. Yuri Ichnert is a spokesman for Ukraine's Air Force. He told me they're shooting down only 60% of the new drones. They know that's not enough. Ukraine's key task now is to create an alternative interceptor, cheap weapons that can provide us with protection. We're outside a well-known fast food establishment on Ukraine's Mid-Anne Square. The sirens gone again. People are coming out, some are heading underground for safety and shelter.

27:02The staff are locking the door. They have to close up every time. There's an alert, a siren, some are clutching, sleeping bags, some are clutching mats, their own drinks. Just in case the raid goes on for a long time. A small snapshot showing just how disruptive these raids are. And it's happening again and again and again. We're outside a university in the centre of Kiev. Just as we were talking to people, yet another siren rang out across the sky. And all the students are now piling out. Because this is what they have to do. Every time there's an alert, they stop their studying. Ifor is a chemistry student. I'm not scared after four years of invasion. I'm used to your alarm. But it destroys the quality of our education. We cannot study normally. The government is planning a new two-tier alert system to try to limit disruption. What it really needs is a better way of defending the capital.

28:05And it hasn't found it yet. James Landau reporting from Kiev there. You're listening to News Hour from the BBC World Service with me, Gary O'Donohue. Now that big victory for Germany's far-right AFD party in yesterday's regional elections in Saxony Unhult is beginning to reverberate throughout Europe and beyond. France's Europe Minister Benjamin Hadad, an ally of the centre's president of manual Macron, warned this is a serious moment in Europe. And Poland's Prime Minister Donald Tusk said only idiots or traitors would vote for the AFD. By contrast, Italy's far-right deputy prime minister Mateo Salvini described the result as a resounding success, adding it's called democracy. Another Europe is possible, he said. So is this result part of a wider trend earlier on News Hour? We heard from Beatrice von Storch of the AFD. This might happen in France.

29:07Marine Le Pen is close to take over the presidency. This is about to happen in UK and this happened already in Italy. The conservative parties who used to run their countries, they disappear completely if they stop listening to the people. And that was Beatrice von Storch. So what can mainstream parties do about it? I'm joined live on the line by Tim Beyer, who's a professor of politics at Queen Mary University here in London. How will governments in Europe, do you think, be viewing this, Tim? Well, I think there will be concern. I don't think it's time for them to panic yet. This is after all a regional election. It's not a national election. But I think the fact, obviously, there is occurred in Germany with its history, means that perhaps there is more concern than there might otherwise have been. It's also true, I think, if you look at the characteristics of the AFD, that they are particularly extreme and they are particularly pro-Russian, which of course will, I think, cause all sorts of concerns in capitals around the continent.

30:11Can you detect a sort of trajectory here for the far right? Because obviously we saw the defeat of Victor Orban last year, earlier this year, Arthur. We've got this AFD victory here. They're looking to do pretty well in other regional electorates. Do you see a sort of curve going on here? Well, to be honest, we have seen far right or radical populist parties do quite well in elections in European countries for decades now. They do like to portray themselves as part of a kind of unstoppable wave. But actually, history suggests that they do go up and down. Nevertheless, it is very much the case that perhaps centre-right parties which used to dominate that space have actually had to give up quite a lot of support to those parties. So those parties are very much part of normal European politics now. But I'm not sure it's necessarily the case that somehow inevitably they will be in power all over Europe anytime soon.

31:12We have got elections in some key places in Europe next year, though France, Spain too. France is an extraordinary and interesting case isn't it? Because Marine Le Pen, who heads the far right party there, I mean, is really is polling very high. Yes, absolutely. But we have seen in France, of course, candidates from the far right get into the last round of the presidential elections before and be defeated. So her victory isn't inevitable. However much she and like-minded parties like to present it as such. Italy is an interesting one because, of course, we have elections there next year. But Georgia Malone is already in some cases a far right. Prime Minister Spain is really one to watch. I agree. There we have far right party vox, which has to some extent in previous elections flatter to deceive it hasn't done quite as well as its polling would suggest. But there is a chance not for it to govern, but at least to support

32:12perhaps a party from the centre right, the party to poplar after the next elections. And I guess that could be true in Italy as well because Georgia Malone is also being pushed from the right by some new political forces there and that might force her to take on some of those policies, even though she's one of those that sort of stood out on things like Russia and the EU. Yes, absolutely. I think it's hard to believe that she will move on that plane on the geopolitical plane. It seems to me she has tied a colour to the mass in that sense. I think she is rather more cooperative with regard to her EU partners than many people presume she might be. And clearly she is a supporter of Ukraine against Russia. However, much some people on the Italian far right would disagree with that. So I don't see a big change there geopolitically, even if she does have to rely perhaps on votes to her far right. Are we well beyond describing some of these parties like AFD as protest votes?

33:14Now, are we starting or do you think the mainstream has started to understand that this is part of public thinking now? This is not kind of knee jerk. We don't like the lot of you. So we're going to have a go with this lot. Well, I think there is an element of that still. I mean, it's not true to say that everybody who votes for the far right is naturally perhaps ideologically predisposed to do so. It does to some extent reflect dissolution with some of the mainstream parties and they're failure to deliver particularly prosperity, but also the kind of migration control that some people would like. I think the important point to make really is that these parties are now part of the normal political scene. I don't think they're going to be disappearing anytime soon, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be governing anytime soon. That said, of course, they do sometimes support governments, they do sometimes get into government and of course they are capable of influencing the governmental agenda, even if they're in opposition. And it does look, if you briefly Tim, like Friedrich Merz is getting a

34:17clear message here from what he said today. It certainly does whether he will choose to fall on his sword, which will be pretty unusual in German politics. I think we'll have to see. And that's Professor Tim Bale from Queen Maryview University in London. Now, 25 years after the attacks of September the 11th, new evidence is raising fresh questions about one of the men who helped two of the hijackers after they arrived in America. BBC Panorama and Radio 4 have been investigating Omar Al Bayumi, the Saudi national arrested by British police just days after 9-11, having recently left America. He was never extradited back to the US, although compelling evidence against him was uncovered by British police and shared with the FBI. His Jane McMullen. It's a day that I would like to only think of my husband and we can't do that.

35:24If the truth remains buried, Terry Strad as husband Tom, with whom she had three children, was working in New York's World Trade Center when the attacks happened. I had a newborn in my arms. He was four days old. Tom went down the stairs, turned around and said, I'll be home by two, I love you. Tom was one of nearly 3,000 people who were killed that day. Within days of the attacks in which four planes were crashed, investigators had identified the 19 Al Qaeda hijackers. Two of them, now Afal Hasmi in Khaled Ahmedah, had lived for months in San Diego. The FBI quickly discovered that they had received help from a Saudi man called Omar Al Bayumi. We needed to know everything about them. Danny Gonzalez was an FBI special agent. You focus on who helped them, who assisted them. It was a network, but when you see who's the principal of this network is Omar Al Bayumi.

36:32Bayumi helped the two men secure an apartment, co-signing their lease. But before 9-11, he moved to the UK and 11 days after the attacks, British police arrested him in Birmingham. They took him to London where he was questioned for seven days. This interview is being audio and video recorded. At first, Bayumi denied knowing the hijackers. I don't have any link with any hijackers. But investigators already knew he had guaranteed two of the hijackers rent. Eventually, he admitted to helping them after what he said was a chance meeting in Los Angeles. Bayumi claimed to be a student who had no links to extremists. But panoramas obtained Bayumi's personal videos, never broadcast before, a vanois al-Aulaki who would go on to lead Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. When questioned in 2021, Bayumi denied knowing Al Qaeda, but the videos show them paintballing and also embracing it a meeting.

37:37After 9-11, the FBI uncovered evidence and information suggesting Bayumi might have been working on behalf of Saudi interests. Rick Lambert oversaw the FBI investigation in San Diego. It was a general consensus of people in the San Diego Muslim community that Bayumi was an operative of the Saudi intelligence service. He was a spy. He was a spy. Bayumi has always denied being a spy. British police also seized evidence from his Birmingham home, including a video he filmed around the Capitol building two years before the attacks. At the time, Al Qaeda was deciding which targets to hit. I'll be careful. Time is six p.m. Bayumi later claimed it was tourism, but in it he talked about a plan. The police also seized a handwritten diagram of a plane with dissent calculations. The plane diagram is a handwritten... He is Jodi Westbrook Flowers, a lawyer representing the families of 9-11 victims

38:40in a lawsuit against the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It's the mathematical calculation of the crash. When we figured out what it was, we knew that it was smoking gun that we'd been looking for. I would have agreed to work with that. Jeff Brineholt was an official at the Department of Justice. The flight designs and calculations is the worst, less the most inconvenient evidence for him, in my opinion. We've convicted people for less. When they found the diagram, the Met marked it up as top priority and handed it to the FBI. But neither the FBI nor the Met told the detectives interviewing Bayumi about it. He wasn't asked about the diagram while it was in custody. It's not clear why. FBI documents show it was decided there was insufficient evidence to extradite Bayumi to the United States. He was released and returned to Saudi Arabia where he remains. September 11th when it comes around every year.

39:41As they mark the 25th anniversary of the attacks, the families hope they can take their case against Saudi Arabia to a trial and get all the answers to what happened. The FBI declined to comment while the US Department of Justice says it's unable to comment on matters and decisions from 25 years ago involving staff who no longer work there. The Metropolitan Police says it can't comment because of the ongoing legal case. Panorama attempted to reach Omar al-Bayumi through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ministry of Islamic Affairs. Neither he nor the Saudi government responded to our request for comment. He has previously denied knowing that Hasmin Mithdar would go on to be hijackers, said the plane diagram was just an equation and denied any involvement in the 9-11 attacks. And that was Jane McMullen reporting just to remind that there are two editions of news that are every day. You can listen to them whenever you like. You can just go to BBCWorldService.com

40:41and you can also download them as a podcast just search for BBC News Hour in your favourite podcast feed. You'll listen to News Hour with me Gary O'Donough here. You're listening to News Hour from the BBC World Service live from London with me Gary O'Donough here. Now the UN says about 19 million Nigerian children who should be getting an education are missing out. That's the most in the world right now. One of the factors behind it is the threat of school abductions, which means some parents are too scared to send their children to class. Your Simmi Eda Gouge went to Northwest Nigeria to see two young people

41:42who'd overcome the odds after an armed bandit had taken them. So we've just arrived at the school and the senior girls are out in the courtyard. They're wearing bright green uniforms and it's raining a little bit, but they're just carrying on my godness. One of the pupils singing and dancing here ahead of the end of school is Hanatu. Like many teenage girls hearing this out in Northwest Nigeria, she's nervous about her exam results. The BBC has followed Hanatu's story closely, ever since a shocking life-changing incident. I remember it often. It makes me feel sad and I cry. Reports say a large number of school girls have been abducted after gunmen stormed a government school and kidnapped them from their dormitories.

42:46This part of Nigeria has been plagued by motorbike riding gangs of bandits who abduct people for ransom. In Zambara State, almost half a million children are out of school, partly driven by fears over abductions. After the attack, Hanatu spoke to BBC Africa Eye. We heard conshots, people crying for help and shouting. Here come the bandits. About five of us ran and locked ourselves in the toilet. There were about 350 students in the school, but only 32 of us escaped. Umu was another people at the school and was one of those abducted. She now studies early childhood education at a nearby university, but she was deeply affected by the incident. I heard a month's voice shouting, Come out, I'll kill you. I was thinking that they would kill us.

43:47Nearly 300 girls were taken. They were eventually freed, but it's disputed as to whether a ransom was paid for their release. But the girls school remained closed, threatening their futures. Nigeria already has one of the highest rates of out of school children in the world. Lissing out on education can have devastating consequences, especially for girls. After the BBC filmed with Hanatu and Umu, donors reached out via the Illymeid Children's Fund. They offered to help some of the girls affected. This allowed them to attend a secure school in the state capital. Both Hanatu and Umu now dream of careers where they can help others. I want to be a doctor so I can help the community and my relatives and the people that have supported me. The attack on their old school changed their lives, but Hanatu and Umu are determined that it will not define them. And that was Yumi's Yadagokai reporting there from Nigeria.

44:54Artificial intelligence we're told will have an impact on every aspect of our lives. One of the most controversial debates is around the use of AI in art. Publishers have been duped by AI-generated books, software proliferates which allows you to compose images and even music. Well, a 130-year-old British composer has chosen to explore this role of AI in music. Not by using AI, but by writing about it in a symphony. Now, Kerry Tan has composed this piece called The Rise and Fall of AI Humanity. And tonight it will be performed by the Philharmonia Orchestra at London's Kaduggan Hall. I spoke to Kerry a little earlier and asked him to describe his style of music.

45:54So basically there's a story that the music itself presents, no words needed. And within the story there is an existential point that all of us relate to. And most of the music was just kind of driven by my soul. Not really by any conventional technique or anything, just by my soul through bouts of inspiration. If you see what I've been. And so what is the existential point? So the existential point of this piece specifically is that the beauty of nature, the beauty of our souls can never be replaced by AI. We must never sacrifice creation, individuality and or what's truly around us for convenience, speed and technology. We should always bear in mind who we truly are, not just kind of sacrifice something to forget who we truly are.

46:57Because that's kind of the point. Because you said the title is The Rise and Fall of AI Humanity. Is it a warning? It's a symphonic fable. So it's kind of a warning, but kind of also a bit of a science fiction story, if you see. And what inspired you to take this on as a subject? Well, last year this time when I started this piece, I came into contact with a lot of a lot of AI, lots of chatbots, including ones that made pictures, ones that made videos, including ones that even made music. I started to think what would happen if these things just kind of like controlled our world, controlled our minds. And then I became kind of a bit worried about this. In The Rise and Fall of AI Humanity, AI attempts to replace creation, but fails, resulting in its eventual fall. Now I don't want to sound like an old foggy, but you are only 13 years old.

47:58This is quite an extraordinary piece. I understand, yes. For you to be in, what do you do when you're not being an international composer of fantastic music? What do you do to relax? Well, I like going on the fastest roller coasters throughout the world, something that lots of people my age would probably enjoy. Yes, I was quite a thrill seeker. I also enjoy going to these Alpine destinations. I enjoy kayaking on the rivers. I enjoy doing some hiking. And it really just gives me a sense of rhythm, gives me a sense of awe. It's something that I really love doing. And that was 13-year-old Kerry Tan, who's number three symphony, The Rise and Fall of AI Humanity, who'd be performed in London tonight, and he'll be playing in it too. Back, why don't we just take his music to the end of the show?

49:06Hello, this is Alex Ritsen from the Global News Podcast. We're bringing you the latest on that decisive victory for the far-right AFD party in Germany's eastern state of Saxony and Holt. Join us to hear the day's top stories from BBC News to live a twice a day on weekdays daily at weekends. Search for the Global News Podcast wherever you get your BBC podcasts.