FLOODGATES OPEN: CLANCY CHATROOM MOM CALLS SON, 2, “ANTICHRIST,” KILLS HIM?

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Tonight, the floodgates are open, a Clancy chatroom mom after being heavily invested in the Lindsey Clancy trial in and out of Clancy chatrooms day and night. Suddenly calls her little boy Barrett, just two years old, the Antichrist and hangs him dead. Now claiming that she too, like Lindsey Clancy, was in a psychotic break. Well, here we go. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. It's so-called loving mom, Lindsey Clancy. Twice, they've sent back notes to the judge saying, we're deadlocked. We cannot come up with a verdict for you.

1:00We need a verdict. There's no new evidence. Okay, there's no new defense. You've heard everything. This point, I'm going to declare that the jury is deadlocked and I'm going to declare a mistreat. You had 11 jurors that didn't necessarily believe your case. What do you say to those people who felt that the whole prosecution was insensitive? What's what? Insensitive. Insensitive. Insensitive. Insensitive. Insensitive is killing three children. Insensitive is ignoring those facts. We have an obligation to stand up for those people and see justice and make sure that they're authentic justice and make sure they get justice. So if people can't understand that, I don't know how I can answer that question. Ms. Trial. And not only that, the defense attorney, Reddington, attacks the whole day out, Gerar. They know that they were robbed by one man for whatever his agenda was who stole seven weeks of the life of these other jurors that were so attentive, so beautiful,

2:03so wonderful, and listen to this evidence. And you can see how defeated they were sitting there. And I got a funny feeling that they were to go on for another week if they had. From our friends at East Idaho News and WBZ, the floodgates now open. To Dave Matt crime stories and investigative reporter, now we have two-year-old Barrett hung in the home. I believe cut down by a neighbor who tried to attempt life-saving measures. And mom upstairs in the tub with superficial cuts on her legs and arms. What happened? And was this mom, 40-year-old Corey Walsh, who is now saying I was not guilty by reason of insanity, I had a psychotic break. Is it true she was, quote, heavily invested in the outcome of the Lindsey Clancy triple murder trial?

3:04You know, Nancy, this woman was not just heavily invested in the trial of Lindsey Clancy. She was online constantly on message boards, commenting about the Lindsey Clancy trial. Her son, you mentioned a neighbor had to come in and cut the child down from a basement room where Barrett was allegedly found hanging this little two-year-old and is cut down by a 17-year-old neighbor. Tries to get help. Life-saving measures are attempted, but sadly the two-year-old does not survive. Meanwhile, mom, Kualsch is upstairs in the bathtub and we're talking superficial wounds to the wrists and thighs. That's it. This goes down in a residential area of Frankfurt, Illinois, extremely low crime rate. Okay, Dr. Bethany Marshall, I've got so much to cover with Lindsey Clancy, including her lawyer attacking the holdout juror

4:06with his name, Everlyx, woe unto him. That is not what our system is about and just this morning, he stands by his attacks on the juror and begs Trump for a pardon. Okay, before I get into all of that, Dr. Bethany Marshall with us for now is Psycho-Analyst. You can see her on Bravo, on Hulu, on Peacock. You can find her at drbethanymarshal.com, hit podcast on the couch with Dr. Bethany. Bethany copycat. You predicted this was going to happen and it wasn't even 72 hours after the mistrial and it did. And that's the one we know about. You know, Nancy, you're right. That's the one we know about. And what I would be interested in with this woman in terms of a forensic evaluation was what was the nature of her preoccupation with the Clancy trial? What were all those messages she was putting on online? She was communicating with multiple people through multiple social media,

5:08channels, and was she pro-Linsey Clancy? Was she against Lindsay Clancy? Did she feel Lindsay Clancy was guilty? Also, what was her relationship with the two-year-old? His name was Bear. That was her nickname for him. And how does she treat this little boy? Did she have empathy for him? Was she... Hold on. Dr. Bethany, I think I know the nature. Cory Walsh's relationship with her two children with her two-year-old son, Barrett, because she called him the Antichrist and the Devil. And she is admitting that she hung him in a quote, psychotic break. Now, how did she know how to say I was in a psychotic break? Of course, she is not guilty until proven innocent, but I'd like to just point out, you know, hold on, Dr. Bethany. Mark Astor is with us joining us at a Baker-Reton veteran criminal defense attorney,

6:11Astor Simovitch Law Firm, and StarbHitpuck as the journey by Mark Astor. If this is not a similar transaction, I don't know what is. A similar transaction in that two moms, white females, roughly same age, young children, kills a son in the home, then has superficial cuts on her wrist and in Cory Walsh's case on her legs as well. I guess she's going to tell us she was trying to slice her femoral artery. That said, mom at the home after failed suicide attempt, heavily invested in the Lindsay Clancy case, obsessed with it, living in Clancy chat rooms, and now Barrett is dead. Nancy, I agree with you. I think there's definitely some similarities, but this is not the first mother who has killed a child or killed children. There's a whole history of mothers killing their children.

7:11I think what is similar is the idea that this is a quote caused by a psychotic episode, and also now we're going to use post-partum depression as part of the insanity defense. And I think this is not going to be the last case where we see a mother who killed a child or children, and it's not going to be the last case now where we see somebody who claims insanity because of some type of post-partum depression. That's the similarity, but we are going to a new world where behavioral health issues are now becoming part and parcel of criminal defense work. So we'll have to see what happens with this case, but I understand where you're coming from. Her obsession with obviously the Lindsay Clancy case is concerning, but maybe that goes to her state of mind too. You don't seem to, because you're really calm. You're just casually predicting that, well, it's not the first and it won't be the last ever, my cold dead body. Dr. Bethany, the comparisons are overwhelming. And you predicted it that there would be many copycat cases after the Lindsay Clancy case

8:14if there was an NGBRI. And here you go. The similarities, overwhelming superficial cuts on the risks and the criminal artery, please stop. I'm thinking might have happened and what we may see more of our murder suicide cases where the mother is wanting to get rid of the child because the child is sort of disadvantageous to her in some way. Maybe she's having an affair, has another lover. There is no suicide, but there was no suicide. What I was going to say, Lindsay Clancy is playing dominoes. It took very mental facility and this mom is getting three hots and a cot also at a mental facility claiming psychotic break. Oh, that's awesome. Now, if this is the anti-christ and this is the devil, then who told her to kill him? The other devil? Well, you don't see people malingre psychiatric illnesses all the time to justify their crimes. I was asleep. I was in a psychotic state.

9:15I was in a fugue. I woke up in the middle of the night and I was sleepwalking. And I'm always, you know, a little suspicious with when an attorney comes up with the idea, like a brief psychotic episode, but it hasn't come from any professional. You're saying the home where Lindsay Clancy reportedly tried to kill herself. There is blood. And there you see along the outer windowsill suggesting she lowered herself down and then then did a much shorter jump. She is paralyzed. That is true. Shannon Hill joining us. Star of Shannon Hill News in the courtroom during the Clancy case. I'd like you to hear what Kevin in addition to attacking the holdout gerar, what Kevin Reddington, and the defense attorney, I'm really surprised he was not held in contempt by the judge. That said, what he blurted out on GMMate just a few hours ago. You said you crushed the prosecution in court, but the final decision was a mistrial.

10:16That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's after the fact. And, you know, the, the emotions run high and we just finished a six, seven week trial. But, you regret saying it? No, I don't regret saying it at all. I think that, I think the defense was, was very strong. I think that, to say that perhaps Donald Trump, who felt compelled to speak out about this case, made very well, Mr. President, I would hope that you would consider this young lady, type of person she is, what she's been through, and consider a pardon. That's from our friends at GMMate and Shannon Hill. While he's with GMMate, he doubles down on his attack on the gerar. What was it a mistake to actually reveal the gender of the juror? I know during the course of the SJC argument, I believe that the gender of the individual was revealed and then it just followed through after that. And also, Shannon, he is standing by his attack on the holdout gerar.

11:22Listen. Going on for another week if they had to. So I hope that guy can sleep well. You know that they were robbed by one man for whatever his agenda was, who stole seven weeks of the life of these other jurors that were so attentive, so beautiful, and listened to this evidence. And you can see how defeated they were sitting there. And I got a funny feeling that they were going on for another week if they had. So I hope that guy can sleep well. That's from our friends at East Idaho News and WBZ. If he does not need to be held in contempt, I've never seen a lawyer that deserved it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

12:23What's going on? Nancy, in the courtroom, attorney Kevin Rennington revealed that the one juror that was standing out on this not guilty, was a male. And typically, we don't hear the identity of the juror. We don't hear anything about the jury members because it's supposed to be concealed. So he did reveal that and people are now kind of talking about how that shouldn't have been information that was privy to the public. He's also referring to saying that he crushed the prosecution as courtroom or a vato. As we know, attorney Kevin Rennington will act fast on all of this. He filed a motion when it was leading up to a mistrial and the judge declared a mistrial. Attorney Kevin Rennington fought to file a motion and did it within an hour. So what we do know is that attorney Kevin Rennington will act fast for his client. There is a hearing on September 29th that will determine where this case will continue. Straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan, joining us, Professor Forensic, Jacksonville State University.

13:27And he is a star of a YouTube hit body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Joseph Scott, thank you for being with us. I want to address which is very disturbing on many, many levels. Immediately following the deadlock and Rennington's attack on the holdout girar. Immediately after that, this mom, Cory Walsh, 40 years old, three children, is in chat rooms talking about the Lindsey Clancy case, pro Lindsey Clancy. Obviously identifying with a mom who kills her three children. She's in those chat rooms according to reports right up until she, by her own admission, hangs her two-year-old son, Barrett. Also similar to the deaths of Clancy's three children, Dawson, Korra, and Kalam.

14:36Explain what this two-year-old child endured. Yeah, absolutely. I'll let you say her name. I'm not saying it. I'll say his Barrett. Also went by Barrett. This is what they saw. So when the finder went into that basement area where that child is down there, away from the mother, he's suspended from the rafter. She used some kind of ligature. We're not really sure yet, but what I do know is that Nancy, his feet, his little feet were suspended up off of the floor. So this is not what we refer to as kind of a passive hanging where an individual kind of slumps down into a ligature. He's literally suspended up in this air with his feet not touching the floor. He cannot support himself in any way to kind of wiggle out of this. I would imagine his hands were probably thrown up at some point in time. He's trying to defeat this ligature that is wrapped around his neck. And here's another clue that I have noticed is that when Barrett was taken to the emergency room,

15:43and they were trying to do heroic measures on him there, the notes and the court documents that were released actually stated that the findings at the emergency room or at the hospital were consistent with what the finder found. That is the teenager that came over and you know what those were, I can tell you right now. This child probably had what's referred to as a ligature furrow, which would have run deep into the neck. It would have traveled upward behind the ears. Okay, that's and it comes to an apex on the back. This is what we refer to as tinting feature TNT, I N G, not like tint on a car, but like a pup tint. So he's being suspended by this and this is digging into his neck the entire time he is fighting for his life. Let me tell you what else happened more than likely when they do the examination on this precious little angel, they're going to find a particular, particular eye in his eyes actually maybe even in his mouth,

16:45maybe on the surface of his lungs because he is fighting for his life, he's struggling for breath. All the while she is up in a bathtub with a knife and I don't know, crying for help. I have no idea what the nature of this is. All I know is superficial injuries to her, but fatal injuries to this baby down in the basement. You know, Dr. Bethany Marshall hearing Joe Scott Morgan describing what happened to bear. And again, the mother in that case, Cory Walsh admits she killed hung bear just two years old, but said she was in a psychotic break at the time. She was treated at a local hospital for three days then transferred to the Will County adult detention facility where she is being held without bond. In both cases, Clancy and Cory Walsh, she is innocent until proven guilty. The husband was gone and Clancy carefully orchestrated to have the husband gone on an errand.

17:49Superficial cuts to the wrist, the murder in the home of the child, psychotic break claimed and curious, or let me rephrase, probative. This mom, Cory Walsh was in chat rooms, defending and talking about Clancy right up until the time that she hangs her son. That has to mean something, Dr. Bethany. It does mean something. First of all, she's well enough to care for four children, right? So, but then later she says she's psychotic. That doesn't go together. She's organized enough to get on to all these chat rooms and interact with people. That does not suggest psychosis to me. What we really need to know is what was her relationship with this little boy bear. And I have mothers like this in my practice sometimes they come in and they're just not bonded with their kids. They hate their kids. They have sadistic thoughts towards the kids. They resent the needs of the child. And often what we see in abusive families, and I don't know what will come out in this case,

18:54is the parent has a hateful preoccupation with one child, but loves the others. You know, it's like there's a split between all good and all bad. Also, I'd want to know, did she have some kind of an ongoing argument with the little boy's father, because often with when mothers commit homicide, with their children, what we really see the primary motivation is that they're trying to get back at another spouse after an argument. So, we'd have to look at that as well. And then that she was so pro-Lindsay clancy. And Nancy also, she did it in such a cruel way. More will come out as Joe Scott Morgan said. But did she torture him before she hung him? Did she try to affixiate him first so he wouldn't suffer? I mean, how did she want this child to die? And if you're psychotic, it's kind of hard to be that sophisticated to hang a child from a rafter. I mean, you have to be pretty organized psychologically. So this is an organized crime, not a disorganized one, which is what we would see with psychosis.

20:02To Shannon Hill, joining us, Rob Shannon Hill, news on Insta, Shannon, the viral videos that are populating online after the clancy mistrial is, it's very upsetting. Nancy, what we are seeing is a trending video going viral of women reenacting intrusive thoughts that they may have had during postpartum. So they are taking these baby dolls and tossing them down the stairs or knocking these baby dolls heads to the wall as some sort of indicative of what's been being discussed online with postpartum depression and intrusive thoughts. I think what we're seeing is this sort of insensitivity to your child. You have the time to prop up a camera and film yourself, dropping a baby doll to somehow be a part of the conversation, but maybe also wanting to get engagement and by reality online. It's quite confusing, if I'm honest, to watch this as a mother and as somebody who comments on topics, especially Shannon and light of the first that we know of,

21:12copycat murder by a Lindsey Clancy obsessed mother in Frankfort, Illinois. What about it, Joe Scott Morgan? Yeah, I think the similarities between these two mothers is the fact that they chose means in order to take the lives of their own children that are very similar. And what I'm talking about is as fixial deaths. The reason that this is very similar is that there is a line that runs through a six-year-old desk that makes them different than any other kind of death out there that we investigate because it's very, very personal Nancy. We're talking about the use of either a ligature or we're talking about, say for instance, if an adult puts their hands around the neck of a child. This is a way where you can see the life literally come out of the individual that you are choking to death. You'll see their face turn colors. You'll see their eyes begin to swell. You'll see the struggle that they're going through and back to this child in the basement as well.

22:17You know, there's a mechanical part to this where this child literally we've heard the term over the years strung up as it applies to hanging. This is the mechanical part of this is bearing witness to this because this child literally their feet would have been dangling in the air struggling for this. There's a real element of satism here Nancy. What is the next move? Listen. I do know that one of the questions I'm out here right now regarding retrials. I will let you know that there will be no decisions made today regarding that. I'm going to be meeting with our team and we will address this case further at the appropriate time and the context of an official court proceeding. So you want to get an answer on that question today. I'm Ace Aiden and I'm using WBZ. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Straight out to veteran trial lawyer joining us Mark Aster.

23:19Of course there's going to be a retrial. There is no way that the state is going to drop this case if they believe that firmly that this is a triple homicide and that Lindsey Clancy formulated a plan which shows intent and premeditation. Then they've got to go forward. It would be derelict of their duty not to if they truly believe that. I agree with you Nancy. I think they're going to retry the case. I think the big problem that they had was was was establishing or even presenting any evidence of premeditation. That was their theory of the case. We didn't hear a motive until miss break the prosecutor was sort of 40 minutes into her closing argument and said this was a mother that just snapped. Well, that may be the case, but where's the evidence to support that now I know you're in your glitz the offices down there in Boko Riton at the Aster Simovich law firm. But have you been under a rock in a cave on the other side of the world with no cable because apparently the answer is yes.

24:27No evidence of planning. I think I just burst a blood vessel Dave Mac. What's the evidence of planning that was brought on to the jury. It started with the whole plan of getting her husband out of the house and sending him to the furthest restaurant away to pick up dinner. Then planning other stops so he would be gone even longer. Then when he calls during the middle of all of that. She calmly answers his questions about what medicine to pick up for the kids. Yeah, there was plenty of planning that kept her husband away so she could carry out her planned murder of her children alleged murder. Correct me if I'm wrong, Shannon Hill, but didn't Lindsey Clancy do an apple map search to figure out just how long she had to murder the children just how long she could get rid of her husband. And he actually called her. He was gone. Less than an hour. He called her in the middle of it.

25:31She picks up the phone and saved normal tiny bit distracted, but normal. Correct Nancy. She did a Google search to see the distance of from their home to the 3B restaurant and then to CBS. And that gave her a timeframe. Also prior to Patrick leaving, she had called the CBS to confirm whether or not they had a PDLX. And didn't let Patrick know to pick that up until he was almost out the door to kind of make it a sort of last minute errand for him to run to add some time to that period. So there was definite. I would say evidence of premeditation and planning this out. Yeah, you're right, Shannon. And leading up to it, Dr. Bethany Marshall to further enlighten Matt Mark Ester. She had gone to Coraz pediatrician that morning. And all the nurses saw her and she was completely coherent and interacted with them. She then went playing in the park with the children and took pictures and videos of them and sent to her husband and her mother in law.

26:43Comes home and starts planning around 4 p.m. Even calling the CBS to make sure they had an in stock so her husband would not bother her by calling and saying something like, hey, they don't have it. What was it? Can with this substitute do with that substitute do should I go to Walgreens? As CBS does have nothing like that. Everything was accounted for. Yes, it was it was methodical meticulous Nancy that that really does show a lot of planning but wait. Let's think about what happened after after she went to the hospital. That was when she first started using the word command hallucination and that other people around her started using that word and later it was reported that she was well like that the psychiatric facility. So planning doesn't just happen before a homicide in really really sophisticated cases. We see the person planning for what they're going to do and say after the homicides right.

27:43So being likeable being connected being engaged organizing herself so quickly that she asked for one of the psychiatrist phones so she could call her husband. So it's pre and post that I think paints a very important clinical picture for me. Hey, before I get a recap with Mark Astor, I had another similarity that popped to mind as you were speaking, Dr. Bethany Marshall in the previous case, Lindsey Clancy. She looked up, can you treat associate path? Did she think one of her children was associate path because in this case, Corey Walsh from Frankfurt, Illinois called her two year old child bear at AKA bear called him the anti Christ and the devil. See to me that that speaks to a rationalization that the person is trying to come to so you know, can you treat associate path.

28:43So if you're a doctor, you can treat associate path, mothers who are not bonded to their children or who are hateful to their children as we've seen in those TikTok videos with the baby dolls. Usually they experience their children as being greedy, hateful, extracting things from them, but often that the children have no conscience and they fail to take it into account that when children are little they want food, they want to be taken places. Others that seen as sociopathic as if the child is callously possessing the mother for its own needs and that's why in abuse of cases, we also see parents, you know, putting locking the refrigerator because they think their children are so greedy, they're going to come out and you know, eat food in the middle of the night that the child doesn't deserve. So it paints a whole picture of these parents seeing the child as unconditionally bad. To Mark Astor, partner at Astor Symmovitch in Buck, Riton and star of the journey by Mark Astor, I believe he said something about there's no evidence of premeditation.

29:48Well, I think what I said Nancy was there's no evidence of motive. I mean, that's the problem if you're going to prosecute somebody for premeditated first to remodeling, you better have a motive. I mean, I understand what Dr. Bethany is saying and maybe the prosecutor needs to call her as a witness because I didn't see any evidence in the trial that would have really agree with what Dr. Bethany said. I think they spent most of their time with the experts trying to argue about what Dr. Resnick said and that's my point. I mean, if what Dr. Bethany said is correct and I'm not disagreeing with her, then we need to have that evidence because I think that's why the Commonwealth had such a very difficult time of overcoming their burden. And let's not forget in Massachusetts, the burden is entirely on the state. It's not an affirmative defense. It's the state's responsibility to sort of negate the insanity defense. And I think that's why they had a problem doing that. And that's why we had a hung jury. Mark Astor, if you'd like me to give you a playback of what you actually said, I can do that. You stated there was no premeditation shown in trial and no motive.

30:56You are a veteran lawyer. You know the state does not have to prove motive period. And there's plenty of evidence of premeditation. That said, I don't see any world, Mark Astor in which there is a plea. Do you? In the real world, I think they're going to negotiate something. No, because I think Mr. Renington is adamant that his client is not going to spend the rest of her life in prison. And for what it's worth Nancy, I think that she probably should. Do I think she will? I mean, probably not. And let's let's not forget all of this sort of show boating is really is really done to preserve the record for appeal. I mean, we had the Andrea Yates case where she was convicted. It got reversed and she ended up being found not guilty by a reason of insanity. And she's been sent to a mental institution. So there is some precedent for all of the things that are going on in this case. And that's what I think the goal is here, but potentially preserve this case for for an appeal. That's the only one you can think of. Andrea Yates. That's really going way back in time to get a similar.

31:59I'd like to point out Deanna Laney, Rotman who bludgeoned her children with rocks killed two left one permanently brain damaged. She went to a mental facility and got out and is walking free amongst us in eight short years. Just got Morgan reality check. What happened to Korra Dawson and Calon? What did they experience before they were killed? Nancy, here's the reality. These defenseless children actually had these ligatures wrapped around their neck. Nancy. And the life was literally strangled out of them with these elastic cords. And you know, Nancy, one of the things that's that's quite striking about the nature of this is the fact that what she chose to use as a ligature in this case is not a static thing. She took a piece of wire or a piece of bailing bailing rope or any kind of other cord she actually had a elasticity with these things.

33:03So she would have had to have adjusted then readjusted and then readjusted because it doesn't work the same as say if you had something that had a bit more tension to it that required much less strength on her part to do it. There would have been this constant readjustment. That's one of the reasons that you know, I used the term sadistic a few moments ago thinking about the elasticity of these cords and how long it would have taken this would have taken much longer. Say for instance, if she had just merely used her hands or use some other item other than an elastic cord Nancy. If you know or think you know anything regarding the hanging death of two year old Barrett Walsh dial Frankfurt PD 815 469 9434 repeat 815 469 944 34.

34:07And let us remind you that a retrial of Lindsey Clancy is anticipated, which means the state is starting over rebuilding its case. If you know or think you know anything regarding the murders of Korra Dawson and Kallen, please dial 781 934 5656 or if you know someone suffering from suicidal ideation dial very simply 988. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye friend. This is an I heart podcast guaranteed human.