Female Psychopath Explains How She Manipulates Men - Kanika Batra - #1142

0:00Your diagnosed sociopath, you also say that you're the most manipulative person I'll ever meet, and you can lie better than anybody. Why should I believe anything that your ruts tell me? Well, I don't have a lot to lose by lying. People know who I am, people know that I can manipulate in many different ways. It's just an idea of I understand that you're a certain type of person, and I know how to work every type of person. But I can verify my diagnosis through independent sources, like business insider. Why should I believe anything you're going to tell me over the next couple of hours? Why wouldn't you just manipulate your way through the entire conversation? Because I'm lifting the mask, okay. I'm lifting the mask, I did it before, I'm going to do it again, I'm going to give you raw and un-pilted, and then you can just cut out whatever you don't like. That sounds good to me. Should I be scared of you? Absolutely not. I'm five for one. What am I going to do? That's fair, that's fair. Okay. So, what is a social-spac?

1:01What's your specific diagnosis? So, I've been diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder as well as narcissistic personality disorder, and I've fit the profile my psychiatrist says of a factor one psychopath. Because psychopathy actually comes from narcissism. So, the glibness, the superficial charm, the ability to essentially go from one job to another, being able to pathologically lie, all of those, and being very grandiose. They're all very narcissistic traits. So, that's where psychopath diverges into factor one and factor two. Factor one is primary psychopathy. So, that's basically your engine running. Factor two is causing a lot of problems to society. It's like the more anti-societal norm behavior. So, it's like being a truant, stealing, lying to people, committing crimes that will put you in prison, all of the reckless stuff that we tend to do.

2:01So, I lean more onto the factor one because I've had a brain scan, and my amygdala does not light up. It just doesn't. So, I know what people are feeling. I just will never feel it. And I know how to mimic a natural response, something that they would want to see. Like, if someone's just died, right, my friend died last week. I just, I can cry on command. So, I can just go to the funeral and cry. You seem just wrote about it. I am. I only knew her for about four years. That's kind of long for a lot of people, friendships, long age. Okay. Talk to me about the DSM sociopath isn't a diagnosis. It's more a colloquial term for anti-social personality disorder. I wanted to explain that because everyone keeps getting at me. Like, says the path isn't the real thing, or I thought you was a sociopath, and then you say, it's like a path. So, anti-social personality disorder is one of the bases of psychopathy,

3:05factor one and factor two. So, factor one completely lacks anxiety and has no fear response, which is me. Factored two is they do get a lot of anxiety. They get very violent. They're very aggressive. They do not have a conscience. They are unable to feel guilt for anything that they've done. But they are hot tempered, whereas I'm cold, essentially. I can plan over months and months if I'm trying to achieve something. If you say, for factor two, if you just say something that they find a bend, they will blow up. They will. More impulsive. Way more impulsive. Way more chaotic. More likely to go to prison. Interesting. More dangerous or less dangerous. It depends. Because a factor one psychopath, let's say, I don't know, a good representation would be Hannibal Lecter. Like, he, I think he's a bit of a threat. But then sort of more chilling than terrifying. He's a lot. Yeah, exactly. So, factor one is chilling. Factored two is this guy is going to set me on fire right now.

4:07What about the antisocial personality disorder? Anti-social. The basic traits that you need is like a lack of remorse, lack of guilt, lack of empathy, having anti-social crimes, so anti-society or norms. So, this can include hurting animals, hurting children, hurting other people around you. Those are sort of the hallmarks of anti-social personality. And then when you combine anti-social and narcissistic and put them together, you get either a malignant narcissist or the kind of psychopath that will absolutely ruin your life. What was childhood like for you? It was fine. I used to witness a lot of domestic violence. So, my father was aggressive towards my mother and my brother. I was never treated badly by my dad. He bought me anything I wanted. He essentially never said no to me.

5:08We had just flown to Australia from New Zealand and I was five or so. And I said I wanted a specific Barbie doll. And he walked three kilometers to go get it. Even though it was jet lag, you know, it was like, because we had to pack up all our stuff and move. And so, that was something that I had. My mom would beat the shit out of me though. Because... So, dad beat mom and mom beat you? Yes. But I didn't mind because it's like, that's the kind of discipline that I think I needed. Because I was a maness. I was an absolute maness. I was a truant. I used to lie, I used to steal. I used to physically harm people. I used to harm other children as well. Mostly my age. Like, I pushed her girl down the stairs and she broke her leg in three different places. And then I got her suspended because I said that she made a racist claim. Which she didn't. But she was the kind of person who you could believe would say something like that. So... How old are you? 14.

6:08Yeah. So, pretty early on I had conduct disorder and I had calisthenne emotional traits. I guess that's why I got the anti-social personality disorder. It kind of is a precursor to that. But I would say in terms of the rest of my childhood, I also had dialisemia. So it's a blood disorder where my bone marrow can't produce its own red blood cells. So I have to get transfusions every three to four weeks. And so because of that, I got so much attention constantly. Like, people will always around me making me making sure that I was feeling good, you know, not sick. It's kind of a center of attention. Not necessarily for a reason that you want, but you still get a lot of attention. Yeah, exactly. And then also because of that, also on top of that I should say, is I did child modeling. So I got a lot of validation from there too. So I always got validation from everyone around me. Just not for the things, but it was always for the things that I do, not me as a human.

7:11So I feel like that kind of shaped how I saw things and how I made everything very transactional. Is that... When did you realize that you were different? Probably four or five. Well, did that look like it? It was just that I couldn't understand why people looked so happy and how they could be friends with each other. And they didn't really do anything. I couldn't understand what was so attractive about a person and wanting to be their friend. I was sort of forced to deal with other people. I think that's my fourth birthday or my third birthday. I had a friend who was a really fat girl and I told my mom, like, do not let her ride my new Barbie bike. She's too fat and it will break. And she let her use the Barbie bike and it broke. So I'm just saying. But outside of that, I was like, how are people... How do people react normally to things? Like, what's wrong with me? It just... It started to crystallize more around, I think, 10-11. It just felt like there's like this glass between a wall of glass between me and other people.

8:17That I can watch you. I can observe you. I can study what you do. I can see what's successful about you. And I will emulate that. But I will never feel it. Like, I will never understand what proper, I guess, guilt feels like. I won't feel what remorse feels like. I've never had anxiety a day in my life. What have you come to believe about whether sociopaths are born or made? So I believe that factor one psychopaths are actually born and factor two psychopaths. I know they tend to say factor one is psychopath, factor two is sociopath, but that's inaccurate. For factor two, I would say that's being made. You're being made. Why? Because that's after an abuse. It's usually during an abusive home life. So they experience all of the volatility, they experience domestic violence. They see that this is the way to get power in life is to have physical strength and full control over another person.

9:22And it's so overwhelming for them. And they turn to violent crimes because of that. And I think with both of us, like both factor one, both factor two, they, we have equal levels of loneliness. So we sort of channel it a little bit differently to them. Is there a history of mental illness or anything in your family? I would say my paternal side is extremely psychopathic. I know on my mum's side there's one person who was... Is there anyone worse than you? Yeah. Okay, so this is a pretty dark story. But okay, so my aunt, when she was 17, she had pre-marital sex with a guy who promised to marry her. And then he refused to marry her. And because she had been tarnished, they weren't very happy with her in the family. So she was found burned on a stove. She had third degree burns all over her body. And she asked for a red sari to be buried, like not buried.

10:23But when she was in the hospital fighting for her life, she asked for a red sari because she believed like she was gonna get to marry the guy that she saw. Well, to red sari, sorry. So you'd wear that, you're wearing, you know, a sari, like the Indian, yeah. And so yeah, she asked for that. And I asked my dad, like, because I didn't even know this happened because burned on a stove. Her head was put on the stove. And then they put care scene on her as well for the rest. Who did? My grandfather. Because she'd had sex before marriage. When they refused to marry her, yeah. So she's tarnished. Did she survive? No, she's dead. I didn't know she existed. Like, I saw a photo of four little kids in my dad's, like, there's like this old box that he has. And I was like, okay, but you have two siblings, who are these other ones? Like, which ones are you? He's like, no, that's Raju and that's baby. And baby was the one who was killed. And she was only 17. Raju died from, I think, some sort of kidney problem. Okay, yeah, that might be a little bit of a history.

11:25Yeah, and then on my mom's side, this one's crazy. So my uncle, he got married five times, different women, swindled all of them, took all of their money, took all of their happiness and sanity. And then he ended up selling my grandparents' home, which is worth a lot, a lot, to three different people. So he took the money from three different people and he fled to America. So if he ever goes back onto Indian soil, he will be arrested. Five women swindled all of them, sold the house. Yeah, and now he's married to his childhood sweetheart. Look, you can't have a happy ending, apparently, after all of that. What do you think it was like for your parents growing up with you? My mom used to call me Shedan, which is Satan and Hindi. Okay.

12:25Everyone's got to have a cute nickname, I suppose. Oh, I guess, yeah. Yeah, so she called me Shedan. They had problems with me early on because I was attacking other children. And so they were like, oh, what's wrong with you? And I'm like, I don't know. If I knew, I wouldn't be in this position. What did that look like? It was just, I guess, because I've heard other children. So it's not always something you can discuss, but I would say it's more like a part from pushing the girl down the stairs. Like, I burnt people. Like, I've done some things. And my parents had a cover for me a lot. So that was a problem. But because I did so well academically, the teachers would always hide with me. Everything was like kind of copacetic for me. And yeah, but my mom used to call me Shedan.

13:25My dad called me Grille, which means little doll. And so I got like unending affection for my dad, because my first word was papa. And yeah. Do you think that there's something around the tension between dad seemingly being coddling and enabling and mum being the disciplinarian that created a bit more tension? Yeah, I'd say so, because anytime I would cry or cause any stress in the family, my dad would always, always take my side. And that would mean that he'd have a fight with my mum. And so I guess I weaponized that a lot. So it kind of created a triangulation that I didn't know was a thing back then because I'm like, I don't know, seven, eight, nine. When did this get most extreme or intense? Because I don't know. You haven't walked in here. At least yet, you haven't attacked anybody or burnt anyone. You know, it seems to me you're now married.

14:27You've got a husband who's come with you. That seems relatively domesticated compared with the person that we're hearing about from childhood. Yes. If you're sort of tracking over time when the most intensity of this unmarried... Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk me through the timeline of sort of where that got to and where it fell off. Absolutely. So I would say the worst for us was in my teenage to early 20s. So I stole from people including my parents. I was very violent in my high school. I would cause not only physical damage. I was supposed to scare off her stool every morning. And the stool's are pretty high. They're up here in the science lab. And so I would knock her down every single day and her legs were super bruised. I would also end up... I guess sabotaging friends who I thought were getting more success in me or I'd get very, very angry if someone said that I wasn't as intelligent

15:29as I knew I was because of my scores. So that would result in like fist fights and pulling people's hair out. But as you've said, you're five foot one. I know, but that... I would have been smaller back then. Back then, I've been five foot one. So I was like 12. Okay, I recall, yes sir. Yeah, but luckily other women are easily like other female children easy to neutralise when you know what to go for. If you go for the eyes, if you go for the throat, if you go to certain areas of the body, it's like no matter what your size is. You sound like the New Zealand bass rutan if you don't know if they go from the fucking UFC. Oh, yeah, that's brilliant. So that was bad. But then in my early 20s, it was like fraud. I would steal people's credit cards. I would go like have a competition with my friend who I believe also has antisocial personality to see what we could take from different stores. And there was actually a fair bit. I was pretty awful to people. Like I would break up with them on their birthdays, create drama in terms of smearing their character

16:37because I know how to do that very well. But because I was like sort of shifting a little bit because I was seeing a psychiatrist. So when I got diagnosed, like do you want to know about that? Yes. Okay, so I got diagnosed at 21. And this was after I tried to kill myself because I tried to kill myself. So I was getting migraines every day. And I was thinking I don't want to live with this kind of pain daily. So and the doctors weren't taking me seriously. My GP told me to stop calling. My neurologist said it wasn't a big deal. And I'm like, yeah, it's not a big deal for you, bro. You're not dealing with it. And so I was like, okay, fuck it. I'm going. So I took the pills, work up in hospital, realized I'd failed. Disappointed about that. What did you do? What did you try and do? I had 15 end-ep pills, so 15 amitriptolines, which really is actually lethal. So I don't know what happened. And so I woke up and they said, do you want to be in an inpatient facility? Or do you want to go outpatient? And I was like, yeah, outpatient. I'm not going to them that house.

17:37I'm sorry. And so when I went, I was evaluated for over 16 months by a forensic psychiatrist. I've actually been on TV with him. And he told me that I had anti-social personality disorder. He would talk about ways, because, oh, yes, I forgot to say, he also worked in prisons. So he would try to discourage me from criminal activity because he would tell me specific stories about the women that and what they get treated like in that prison. So he's like, you will, he didn't try to do it from a moralistic place. He did it from, you're going to suffer. You're going to have a utilitarian. Yes, utilitarian. That's exactly the word. That's exactly how he talked to me. And like talking to him probably made me a bit more glib, bit better at like creating charm. Why? Because he would teach me ways of talking to people that were kind of new to me. So I would recognize that sort of language and mimic sort of, I'm very good at mimicking people.

18:38So I'm good at mirroring. I'm good at giving the right responses. And he kind of taught me some of the right responses that I didn't already know. So what he's trying to do is explain to you the situation, explain your diagnosis to this person who's 21 years old and has been dealing with this for as long as she can remember. But what he's actually doing is laying out a blueprint of how other people operate, which you then take and use. Exactly. And use specific language to do it. So that was really helpful. What's specific language? So if someone's going through something like you're going through severe pain in your life, just being able to say, I understand what you're doing. Like I feel it really badly. I can't believe this is happening to you. You mean so much to me. And then just the tears. And yeah, that would be generally what I would do. You have the idea of a peas on B. Have you heard of this? No. Well, philosophical is on B. So it's a thought experiment. People kind of accuse AI of being this too.

19:38It's able to do all of the things. Imagine you had a human that looks like a human walks and talks like a human and makes all of the actions and responds that way. But there's nothing, there's no motivation going inside. That's not quite the same because there are motivations. It's just the reason for the motivations are more contrived with you. But it is kind of peas on B. A Jason. Yeah, a little bit of interest. That actually makes sense. Okay. What emotions do you feel? I feel all emotions except for like, I don't think empathy counts as an emotion. So I would say the fleeting emotions are like joy, happiness, being proud of myself. Anything positive is very long. A lot. Anything positive is very short lived. Everything negative like rage, like contempt of anything along the lines of anger that stays for a while, which is really frustrating because it's like, why couldn't you give me more of the good stuff? Like, why am I feeling the bad stuff?

20:39Why is there not psychopathy for positive emotions? Well, it's just people walking around in bliss all the time. There are. And the problem is it's like two different areas of the brain. So one is like, yeah, you should feel shit all the time. And one is like, I'll give you five seconds of like a good time today. And it's like, why are you doing this to me? Tell me if this sounds familiar. Train regularly, you eat reasonably well, you feel fine, but you're just kind of going off vibes. Most people have absolutely no idea what's going on inside their body. And that is why I partner with function. Function gives you access to more than 160 advanced lab tests spanning hormones, heart health, kidney function, and even detects early signals linked to more than 50 types of cancer. To put that in perspective, your typical annual physical might test 20 markers. Function runs over 160. It's huge. Best of all, you test twice a year and everything lives inside of a simple dashboard. So you track trends over time, make sure you're moving in the right direction. And this level of testing would usually cost thousands, but with function, it is $365 per year.

21:39Just $1 a day to actually know what's happening inside of your body. And right now, you can get $25 offering it down to $340. Get the exact same blood panels that I use and save $25 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com slash monomersome. That's functionhealth.com slash monomersome. So you feel all emotions, but you skew toward negative. Unfortunately. And not just, it sounds not so much, is it depressive negative or like active negative? No, so I do experience depression, if you will, but for me, it's no profound sadness. It's a completely flat feeling of having nothing. And you just consume so much time, like volumes of time. And you don't even know what you've done with it. And so it's like you kind of just flound up. And that lasts for a while, unfortunately. So I really don't like that. I can't handle boredom at all. You said you don't think the empathy is an emotion. No. But something like guilt, I think would would almost certainly, I think almost certainly guilt has to be.

22:43The reason that guilt exists is to identify it's a self-identifier from your system to tell you that there is an imbalance in the ledger between you and something else or somebody else that I have taken too much from this situation. You can imagine why in a tribe this would be needed, that you need to ensure that everybody else sees you in a positive manner. And if you're the person that's always taking from the food and never giving it, you should feel guilt because it's an early warning sign that, hey, other people are not going to like you at some point in future. Which is where the transactional stuff comes from. But for you, guilt. That's so interesting. I actually didn't know that. So the way I see guilt as a social, it's a social conditioning emotion that is generally useless. Because what can I do about things I've done 20 years ago? Am I going to go say sorry and just going to fix it? No, it's not. I guess that's why I burned a lot of bridges. But it's just something that I don't feel.

23:44It's like I live in the present. If it's not in the present, it doesn't matter. Well, you say that you live in the present, but a lot of time is being spent maybe planning and concocting ways to get back at people. That's living in the future. That is does. Yeah. Okay. So I've been asked that before. So basically what I do is like in my everyday life, I have interactions with people on a daily basis. Like I coach a lot of people. They want to be ruthless. So they somehow come to me. And so they come to me and they're like, make me less emotional. So at that time, I'm telling them exactly how I feel and what I do. But in terms of if someone has wronged me, that stays lodged in my head until it is taken care of. So there was a group of 1200 women on Reddit who were posting images of my... They said I should get ripped again. They gave my address to the rest. They would comment on every single thing that was wrong with me about my appearance, which was wild stuff.

24:48So when I found out certain people were in that group, I realized that just says needs to be served. So I intend to ruin one of their birthdays every single year, so far everyone's three years. What have you done? I sent a pig's head to her door. I sent the police for a welfare check. I sent a my out. She banned to come at 6 a.m. I sent the Jehovah's Witnesses. And I will next time be sending the Mormons. Well, that's the worst one of all. Right far. She was shocked by the pig on the... I'm not going to lie. You've said the... Oh, sorry. And I don't know if you've watched the help. But Minnie makes a very specific pie for her old boss. And let's just say there's fecal matter in there. Luckily, it was outsourced because I couldn't do something like that. But that was delivered to her house, and I hope she ate it. And this is one person? Yes.

25:48And this was the leader of this radic group that you say was an attack on you or some kind. What was their issue with you? I think it was just... I don't know. There was leaked video or some... not video audio. And it wasn't legitimate. It was just a string of my words put together from different clips. And they're like, oh, she's such a big it. Oh, she's such a piece of shit. All of that stuff. Were they accusing you of having sex? The racism. Right, okay. Yeah. Okay. And I was like... And what's your heritage? Indian? Indian. Right. Yeah, I was like, I didn't say that. Like I've never said that. Interesting. Yeah. And then also because Sam had made some posts on Twitter. This is your husband? Yeah. He made posts on Twitter about Virginia Dufre. And he was just making showing... Every up scene posted. Yeah. So he was showing some inconsistencies in the stories all. And then they blame me for that. So I was meant to be like the full guy or something. I don't know. Like they decided I was the proxy.

26:48I would be attacked constantly. Hmm. Are they still around? I mean, we got some Reddit thing taken down, which is great. But... What else from an emotion standpoint is interesting? I'm aware that a lot of this to you must be... Like me talking about what it's like to be Harry Potter the Wizard. But it's very hypothetical. Right. Yeah. But I imagine that you've spent a good bit of time thinking about not just so that you can manipulate other people, but so that you can function in the world at least remotely well. What are the differences between your experience and other people? How else... What are the other big differences you think between sort of how you go through a day in terms of feeling things? So why? Yeah. Yeah. Emotions operating. So most things I don't feel very heavily. So if something happens and it's a great thing, like I don't know, doing a podcast of you, I'll be like afterwards, Dan that was fun or like, Dan, that's going to be cool when it comes out. That will last for about 20 minutes. And then I'll see someone like say something annoying on Instagram and I'll be like,

27:51should this person get attacked later or not? And then I'll sort of go through that. But recently I've found Christianity through Charlie Kirk and that has radically changed a lot of what I do. So yeah, people don't really like sharing about religion or politics and I'm a conservative who has a lifelong conservative and I love Charlie Kirk and that kind of, they don't like religion either. What was that brought on by? So when he passed, I loved Charlie Kirk so much. Prior to him, pastor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved him so much. I loved everything he said. I loved how kind he was. I loved how he was, he was like the true beacon of masculinity if there ever was one. Seems surprising that you would admire somebody who's kind given. Yeah, he's the good person that I can't be. And then when he was taken from the world, I just realized there's no good in the world. What was the lesson that you took from that? Well initially it was how cruel people are and like how disgusting they are.

28:55And if I as a psychopath have more of a morality than you, it's saying something. And so I saw these people just like mocking his death and like it became a trend on TikTok. And I was like, he was a fucking human being, but he was a human being. He was 31. It just really pissed me off. And so like I actually grieved him more than I've grieved anyone in my life, including my family. Like my grandfather died in front of my eyes, not the one who burned his daughter. He died in front of my eyes when I was 10 years old. So that no emotion, nothing. The other grandparents died, no emotion, friends died, no emotion. But like for Charlie Kirk, I was crying every single day, made no sense. That's strange. Is that strange situation for you? It is. Because I don't know if there's any other kind of like such strong masculinity that's not also like just nasty, you know what I mean? Like the way he would talk about women, like he would always be very gentle with women,

29:57like he wouldn't yell at them, he wouldn't do anything. Like he would be calm, he would lead, he would provide, he would protect. And so and he did it in such a way. And we did, we differ on some beliefs, but we all of us differ on beliefs. And your conversion to Christianity has happened after Charlie's passing? Yes. So I decided to feel me as charade Bible again. My parents are Christian and I purposely did not become Christian. So I read the Bible properly, like I threw a context and everything. And I found Orthodox Christianity, which has really spoken to me. And I love that it's a hospital. So they see it as a hospital and not a courtroom, which is really nice. Like when you've been called a bad person your entire life, like you kind of want someone who's like, no, you can be redeemed. Yes. Do you think you're a bad person? No. Why? Because I used my skills to help people.

31:00Initially I did hurt a lot of people, but eventually I built my platform and women who I've helped women escape domestic violence. I've helped them heal from sexual trauma. I've helped them like own their own lives. And so like I just felt like that was a positive thing that I could do to offset the bad stuff. And there might be a little bit of penance to be paid. Yeah. The sounds of the first couple of decades of life. I'm interested in this pivot to Christianity a little bit because one of the core tenets of that is to turn the other cheek. That's what I'm having the biggest problem with. Yes. Somebody who is the biggest problem with. You said that you love revenge. Yes. Why? Because I believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. If you are ready and willing to make me feel like shit about something, you should be prepared to feel the same back. Like recently I had some ugly girl comment on my video saying, oh, you're not 40 kilos, you're more like 62. And you're like, you're losing your attackiveness.

32:01You need a bit of brain. And I was like, listen bitch. I am 40 kilos. If you would like to watch the scale you can. And then I was just like, if you think that you should be making commentary, I feel like you have not seen a mirror in a very, very long time. And so I have my best friends who will go and sort of swarm as well. So if you're willing to try and knock out me because I had an eating disorder growing up. And that's also what happened in the group. They were constantly trying to call me fat so that I would go back to an eating disorder. Yeah. So I fucking women, I swear to God. And so yeah. So I'm telling how to go to the gym. Like you can see the fat rolls on that face. And shit like, I am exactly 40 kilos. What is the most extreme length that you've gone through to get revenge on someone?

33:01Okay. So there was a girl I did pageant sweat. So she won a pageant and she went to the international. And anyway, so she came back. We did miss well together. And she was super arrogant and she was really, really rude. She'd get under my skin a lot. So she would say like certain races shouldn't be able to compete. Certain people shouldn't be able to compete. Short girls shouldn't be able to compete. And I was like, all right, it's time for this bitch to learn a lesson. So I deleted anything controversial that I said. I screen recorded the whole thing. And then I sent it to every single girl that she had insulted. I sent it to the pageant director who immediately kicked her out of the competition because she is, she's a liability at that point. So they throw her out and it's her last year to actually be in pageants because she's too old. So she can't compete again. And that's what I took the most satisfaction in. If you're saying that someone like me shouldn't compete, you will never compete. And so yeah, she was completely taken out. And then I decided to take in the extra level.

34:04I reached out to Miss Venezuela. And Miss Venezuela has millions of people who support her. And let's, luckily this woman, she was awful enough to let me know that she let Miss Venezuela sleep through her alarm and miss the preliminary finals. And so I told her, I'm like, you know, she purposely doing that. You go. And then I think the entire country of Venezuela that is in love with pageants turned on this girl. And they were leaving so many hate comments for like months and she had to go private. And then she's, she got a lawyer and let's just say she works in retail. So it would have taken her hours and hours and hours and weeks to earn enough money to get a lawyer to send me a cease and to sister letter to which I responded low. Because if she had actually anything against me, if she had the means to sue me, she would have done so. She wouldn't have given me a cease and to assist.

35:04And this is because she said some mean words to you. Yeah. And was making racist comments and so on. That's it. Yeah. You managed to set the entire country of Venezuela on this person. Yeah. Okay. Have you been to jail? No, sir. Certainly some things you've done that could have got you to go. Absolutely, absolutely. But people wouldn't believe it. Like people don't look at me. Like would you think that I do anything that I do that you wouldn't? I'm generally quite smart. Like I tested 138 and I'm never testing again in case it's lower than that. Because I couldn't wait for that shame. It seems like with a few of the things that you've brought up, I am 40 kilos. I promise. My IQ is 138. Like I don't want to test it again in case it goes back. Some sensitivity around people saying what's happening with your age, whatever. It feels like status and renown competence, reputation.

36:10It feels like that's a core part of what it is that you desire. Is that right? Absolutely. I think that is what comes from the narcissism. Whereas the ASP or the psychopathy is more the machine in my brain that tells me to slow down and do it in a way that doesn't blow back at me. So you've got, that's an interesting way to look at it. One is an engine and the other is a brake pedal. Exactly. Exactly. That's how I see it. I hate the narcissism. I'm not going like, I wish I could just be, just not worry about other people saying, like, think that they're better than me. I wish I could say that. I wish I could actually be in a position where I don't care so much about looks, intelligence, worth, status. But I feel like those are objective metrics that have been proven. If you're in a beauty page and there's a certain level of beauty that you've attained. If you do extremely well on your year 12 exams, which I did, then you have intelligence.

37:11If you have an actual quantifiable number of your IQ that shows that you're not dumb. So when someone says that those things aren't true or they'll accuse me of having a fake nose because it's small or breast implants, it's like, that's my genetic superiority. And you're trying to say that I'm a normal person who has to go pay for it. And it pisses me off so much. And that's why my psychiatrist was like, we need to detach you from these things because it's going to be really, really bad when you do age. And my parents are really good. Because it's coming. Yeah, it will be coming. But my parents. How old are you? I am 30. Cool. Have you ever wanted to kill anything? Yes. What? People. Okay. How'd that go? Not so well yet because I have a lot of people around me who would stop it from happening. But I would plan it over a long period of time. There are some people like in that stock group, for example, the Reddit thing.

38:14Yeah, yeah. I would absolutely just skin them if I could. Like physically myself like Catherine Knight. Who's that? She's an Australian woman, the first woman to get life in prison without parole because she ended up, so she killed her boyfriend because he didn't want to get married. And she stabbed him like a hundred and something times. Then she skinned him like a full skin suit and hung him up by the door. And then she cut off his head and sorry. It was on the stove and she cut off his like a meaty parts and cooked them. And so she was going to serve them to his children and that won't hurt children, presumably. Yeah. Right. And then she took some benzos and fell asleep and tried to act like she had an overdose. But I feel like that's what they deserve some of these people for. The hell that they put me through especially because I was dying in the Maldives.

39:15Like I hadn't had a blood transition. My hemoglobin was so low and my oxygen saturation was like, I was like on the edge of dying. And these bitches had the audacity to be planning this, writing an open letter to Kaniika Batra. If you don't do this and this and this and this and this, we're going to destroy your life. We're going to go into every part of your comment section which they do. We're going to send you horrific emails. We're going to try and make and give you bad reviews on your book, even though I know it's good, even though most people, I think I'm going to single person saying it's bad. And so it's like if you have that capacity to treat me that way, you don't deserve to be on this planet. This episode is brought to you by Woop. Most people treat recovery like it's optional, but unlike politicians, data doesn't lie. How you recover is literally going to determine how good your next day is going to be. Woop tracks all of it. Sleep, strain, heart rate, recovery. It's like dog the bounty hunter, but instead of criminals, it's tracking down your bad habits. All of this data gets pulled into a dashboard that actually tells you what to do with the information.

40:19And now the brand new Woop 5.0, 7 cents smaller. It's got two weeks of battery life. It shows you how fast you're actually aging. It comes with hormonal insights for women managing the cycle or pregnancy or men hiding from it. Once you see the patterns, you start making better decisions. It's that simple. Best of all, you can join for free, pay nothing for your Woop 5.0 strap. Plus you get your first month for free and there's a 30 day money back guarantee. So you can buy it for free, try it for free. If you don't like it after 29 days, they just give you your money back. Right now you can get the brand new Woop 5.0 and that 30 day free trial by going to the link in the description below or heading to join.woop.com slash modern wisdom. That's join.woop.com slash modern wisdom. It's so interesting. I'm noticing inside of me as you're talking the balance between the emotion of wanting to give you sympathy for going through the access and horrendous, being on the edge of dying in the molded. And also like absolutely knowing that you didn't feel much other than the rage and the resentment

41:22and the bitterness. It's very strange. Obviously, it's because you're explaining there's so much exposition going on. I'm like, why is feeling sympathy for somebody who doesn't feel guilt? Very interesting calculation equation to try and do in my head. Like that's mean and horrible for anybody to go through. But also this person doesn't respond in the normal way to that. It's very interesting and I'm noticing that coming up inside of me. Okay, so you would kill somebody if you could get away with it, you think. Yes. Okay. I've heard you talk about freedom, like not wanting to risk your freedom as a big part of this. Is that the main sort of utilitarian reason that forensics, the likelihood, so if you had the skill to do it? Yeah, I mean, if I had the privilege of being able to do it like Ted Bundy, I actually

42:23relate a lot to Ted Bundy, not for the killing stuff, not at all. But he had the same sort of, like I listened to the hours and hours of him talking. And he has a lot of like words, salads. But when he actually talks about his experiences, like when he didn't know how to talk to people and he didn't know how people would associate with each other, so he's still listening to talk back radio. So he could understand how actual conversations work and how they should be happening because obviously it wasn't happening naturally for him. And then he would talk about the same kind of depression that I have where it's not profound sadness at any point. It's just this feeling of like I can't do anything. And it's like you're just laying there. Flat. Flat. Just flat. There's nothing that can like lift you out of it. And so that's something I really related to. It's like depression without the sadness. Yeah, literally, literally. It's depression without sadness. So what was it like when he first started listening to Ted Bundy talk?

43:23It was that was the first thing and then how he struggled to make friends because he couldn't understand why people found it off-putting by the things that he was doing. Like he was set like cages. He'd set up a trap in the forest so he'd have a trap door and then there'd be like sticks and stuff holding it back. And so people would fall in and they'd hurt themselves because they'd be a bear trap. And he couldn't understand why that was bad and why people hated him for it. And I couldn't understand why people hated me for what I did because like it wasn't something that I'd planned or anything. It was just something that happened. And then also the way his family would treat him, like they would call him evil when he was just a child. I don't think any child is inherently evil. So when that really hit home, the fact that he had this girlfriend, Diana Edwards, she's known now, how she dumped him. And he was just so angry about it because he built himself up to be this person who's

44:26at university, who has achieved a fair bit. And the revenge that he had after that, like leading her on for a whole year. And then planning and waiting. And then he just stopped writing to her completely. He stopped. He stopped communicating. She was frantic and she called him and she's like, why are you doing this? And he's like, I don't know what you're talking about and hung up on her and she never heard from him again. So I like the idea of that as revenge, but also like how he would flip flop at university. So he'd do different degrees. Like I've done that. He never really held a stable job. I've held stable jobs, but it's just like I get bored within a month or two and then I'll be gone. It's different if I had like, you know, my own show and like if I'm in conservative media, like for that, I've always been interested. And he went straight into politics. I went straight into politics. On my 16th birthday, I joined my conservative party, which is the liberal party in Australia.

45:26I joined at 16. I was VP by 19. And so he was there to rub elbows with like more, I guess wealthy people, whereas I just did it because I have a lot of rage and I have a lot of like ability to scheme and plan things. And so in politics, you're rewarded for that. You're rewarded for any sort of gravity you have. Like I had a friend who backstabbed his mother. I won't go into it, but he backstabbed his own mother to be in the faction. So it's like where you thrive, your sadism can thrive without you actually going to present. And so he utilized that as well. You wrote a book that had Ted in, right? Yes. Yes. That's it was a fiction novel thing. It was an a female serial killer at the same time. It certainly seems like there are some analogies between the female protagonists and yourself. Yeah, people keep saying that. I'm like, no, she's way better than me. You mean more proficient at what she does? More proficient, more attractive, like Richard.

46:29That not be the dream. I deal with it. Yeah. No, because there's a lot of things that she does that I can't do. It's like the promiscuity. Promiscuity really disgusts me. Like it gives me a bizarre reaction. I don't know why, but like if I like, it's hard to see someone as a person. Like if they're, you know, doing really vulgar things, I guess because I grew up in such a conservative home that like that stuff is seen as very generate. I've got a video that I want you to react to. Yeah. Let's get this up Mark. Rodney Alcala. Don't say like that. It may be the creepiest episode ever on the dating game because this bachelor looking for love back in 1978 is actually a serial killer. I'm called the banana and I look really good. No one had any idea that Rodney Alcala had already launched his killing spree when he appeared on the popular dating show.

47:29He was a real creepy guy, a real idiot. Jet Mills was bachelor number two and nearly 40 years later, he's still haunted by their encounter. This creep comes up and he puts his face practically in my face and he says, I always get the girl. When I think about what he said, I always get my girl. He kills them. That's what he's talking about. That's your best time. The best time is at night, nighttime. Despite Alcala's weird behavior on the dating game, the bachelor aunt chose him but never went on the date because she reportedly found him creepy and lucky for her because Alcala would later be found guilty of seven murders. Investigators believe he may have actually killed up to 130 victims based on photos found on his property. Why did you respond that way when you saw him? He's just someone I find really fascinating because I was actually watching a documentary on him probably about a year ago and it was actually crazy how much he managed to get

48:34away with. Also his eyes are so demonic. You can just see in them, there's nothing behind there. There's no soul in that at all. You can see his contempt towards women. If you'll notice, there's no Dushan smile. It's a genuine smile. You'll see it up here as well. There'll be crinkles. His stays entirely here. He's not being genuine at all. If you look at his eyes, there's nothing there. If you actually muted the video and played it, you can see the micro expressions on his face that he's getting that delight from juping somebody. That's interesting. The ability to convince somebody of something that you're not, that is itself rewarding. I would say so, yeah. What's your dating history like? Always a serial monogamous. I don't think that sexual activity or anything of that.

49:37It should be outside of a serious relationship. Ideally marriage, but a serious relationship will do in this society. Because of that, I primarily date. I am bisexual, but I would have a number of different people that I would go on dates with and I would selectively cut them off. Basically, I would trim it down until I had the person I wanted. With them, it's fantastic to have somebody, but I could never really lift the mask. For any of them. Because I couldn't be fully myself. It's very tiring when you have to wear this mask constantly and you know that there's going to be consequences if you don't. What does not wearing the mask look like in a relationship? It can get pretty ugly. I do still get a lot of rage. While I'm better at handling it, I get very frustrated at people around me for not doing

50:38the right thing and backing me up immediately or doing things like that. I can't tell them honestly about things that I've done because it's too much to have found them. There's an article that I mentioned a lot, the hidden suffering of the psychopath. It shows how lonely psychopaths get even if they're dating multiple people. They even say Ted. That's why they believe that psychopaths can feel grief and love and love. The problem is that loneliness and that wedge between you and other people can turn you into someone who commits a violence. For me, that wasn't what turned me. I knew I couldn't really show people how I am outside of the social things that they experienced me at. Everyone's always like, you don't seem like a psychopath and you don't seem like you have this and this and this. I was like, well, if I told you what I actually thought, you'd probably think differently.

51:42That's sort of the issue I have. Also, I get very, very tired of people. If they're too high maintenance and they're constantly texting, constantly calling, it's like, why don't you get another job? If you have so much time on your hands and you want to chat on the phone all day, I have things to do. It's like the cleanliness I can't deal with. Then again, non-shelon, I can't really deal with it either. It kind of has to be this happy balance. Trust me, it was very hard to find that. I've heard that you say you have pure contempt for most partners after three months. What was happening there? I think I would start to see them as the real person that they were instead of the fantasy that I projected onto them. I tend to put people on a pedestal sometimes. I also actually really love giving gifts and I love bombing. I do it naturally. It's not necessarily planned. I love doing all of that. They get hooked on it and then they start getting really, really obsessive.

52:43They'll be like, okay, why aren't you calling me more? Are you seeing other people? You must be seeing other people. There's this contempt. I have to handle this creature. I have to care about it and do good things for it. It just becomes like prose versus cons. We want to do it on your terms because you want to live from them when you want to live from them. Exactly. Exactly. But you don't want to do it when they want it. That's partially, I would say it, but also I would say that it's just overwhelming because my internal system is flat. It's completely flat. Whereas people spikes and it drops and it's like, I don't have time for that. I don't want to deal with that. That's also why I would never actually date or truly be friends with someone with borderline personality disorder because there are pendant issues or something severe. I had one who would text me literally five times an hour because I wasn't responding

53:45on my tone. It seemed wrong. It's just like, I have important things to do. She was threatening suicide every weekend. To be on the phone with emergency services, telling them that she'd cut her wrists in a shallow manner. It was frustrating. She'd have all of these tears constantly. I was like, I can't deal with this. It's not my problem. I just get fed up. It kind of is your problem if you're in a relationship with someone, right? You want them to be there for you when you need them. Your friends who stayed up until 4 in the morning, you have an awful lot of respect and gratitude for her for doing that. If your partner was either attempting to or threatening to take her on life, that felt like that was burdensome to you. Well, she did it every weekend. That's the problem. If she did it once in six months, okay. But there was a lot of other things she had a drinking problem. She expected me to pay for everything. It's like, I don't want to do that. If you're going to spend an hour in the gym, you might as well look hard and feel comfortable

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55:53non-typical approach when it comes to scrutinizing partners and dating multiple people, at least in the beginning at once, given that, why have you gotten into dating advice? Because other people need to learn science and manipulation. Especially I got started when it was like the Red Pill podcast and everyone was like trying to degrade women and make women humble women, tell them they're not special, tell them that. Like the advice was literally on par with the infographics on domestic violence. So the isolating, the gaslighting, like the triangulation, making her feel crazy. Like, I know how that works because I've done that before. So I figured like, you know, I have all of these women who all of a sudden like me and they are having so many problems, they like email me every single day and say, well, I have this happening, I have this happening, please help me, no one else can help me. And so I guess because I come across as like Ruth less sometimes or very friendly at other

56:53times, they get the impression that I will care about what they're dealing with. So do you? Only once, I think. Only once. Like it was a bad situation. It's interesting because you're obviously passionate about this topic, but you still don't really care about the people that are going through it. It's like you seem to care about the sort of symbolic injustice, but not the human side. Exactly. Also, I'm noticing throughout the conversation a lot of male power over women is a big bug bear for you, especially manipulative male power over women. But that's something that shouldn't happen perhaps history, abuse, assault, also maybe seeing dad with mum. Have you tried to sort of reverse engineer where this evangelism for not having men manipulate women comes from? I mean, you know, I really should be able to agree that that's bad, but for you, it has a different flavor to it.

57:54Absolutely. So obviously with Indian culture is very patriarchal. And so men have the final say in everything. And when I was 13, my mum told me that it was time for me to learn how to cook. I said sure as my brother learning to, she's like, no, you're a girl. You do it. And I was like, fuck that. I'm not going to do this. So I was just like, no, I'm not going to play into this. And then obviously I've seen the dynamic online. I've been on the receiving end. Like I absolutely would annihilate anyone who wouldn't egg me. Like, yeah, so that would happen a lot. Like at a casino at one point, a guy was like, yeah, your, your heart, be not that hot. Like, you're not like, I wouldn't go for someone like you normally. I was like, listen, your five foot six and fat. No one wants you, especially not me. But yeah, I do feel that I have had a mental soft spot for women going through abuse, but everyone except the one man who wrote to me, every other person who's ever been good to

59:02me has been a man. And every person who's caused me stress or caused me any kind of struggle in life is always women. Women were in that group. Women are, I am a comment section like, or policing my tone. Women are the ones spreading rumors. Women are the problem. Interesting that most of your protection is of women against men, but at least in your experience, most of your good treatment has been from men and not from women. Literally, men have always helped me. Men have been, my dad's loved me forever. Men on the street helped me parallel path. So what do you think's going on there? Square that circle. You know what's really odd is, okay, so I had this initially. I didn't think men had feelings. Like I literally thought men don't have emotions. So seeing someone have emotions, it was like, okay, maybe they do. But realizing that they're the ones who have assisted me since like day one and they're

1:00:04the ones who have supported me and been like loyal, apart from my two female friends, it's just, I don't know why I had the advocacy for women. I don't know, like I actually have quite a contempt for some of my audience because they're very leftists, sort of feminists and they want me to be like on their terms about gender and shit and I don't believe in that. Okay. What are the best pieces of dating advice you've got for women? So never sleep with them until they're in a serious relationship because your body wasn't meant to be used by multiple people regularly and also your heart wasn't designed to break for so many people. I would always make sure that you are actually safe. You don't have any concerns about red flags. So you should, I put out some advice in terms of red flags. If he's pushing too soon in terms of he's flooding you with attention, he's giving you everything you want.

1:01:06So he's basically everything that you think of all through the day. That's a bad thing. That's really, really bad. You don't want to, you don't want a guy who is making you feel like that because he's depriving you of contact from other people who will pull you back into reality. Also I tend to tell women not to say people's names under their actual name and to use a mildly insulting term to keep them there, like for their contact name and then also turn it. Let me get to it. Okay. Turn off notifications on Instagram and on any other platforms and also turn off your activity status. So I do this because one, dopamine comes in real quick from attention from this person. So you don't want to have the life sucked out of you because you've slowly been developing this level of respect for this person.

1:02:08Like let me put it this way. If I have a guy saved on my phone as hepatitis B, how sad would it be if hepatitis B didn't text me back on time? So women get really obsessed with the Instagram status because they would be like, okay, this guy was active nine minutes ago. I sent him a message 10 hours ago. So they start to feel like there's something wrong with them. But if you have your notifications and your status off, you don't know when it was online, you don't know when you were online, you're mysterious. So it's like it's a it's a place where you don't feel the hurt if you don't get a text from him. So you're you're priming your body to be neutral instead of like emotionally connecting onto someone who you don't really know very well. And also I would say don't text all the time because that's creating more intimacy than is actually capable and real at the moment. Like the false intimacy that comes from texting for like weeks and weeks before meeting

1:03:12is ridiculous. Hmm. I understand maybe an early dating not falling too fast for someone that you don't trust is perhaps not hepatitis B, but it's not a bad solution generally. But eventually do you advise women to completely remove their mask as well? Yes. So I would say to women until you are engaged to your single and you should you should maintain you know your body. You shouldn't be out sleeping with people don't date five people and sleep with them. That's not where we're at. And so that's kind of where I go to tell women and then so another thing with the orthodox church it tells you that marriage is when you become a martyr for each other. And I think if there's no investment in you first you don't need to be a martyr for anybody. Like but you were also concerned about somebody investing in you too much first. Well yeah because that's love bombing. But you just said that you'd like to love bomb people early on in a relationship.

1:04:15I know. You do. I do yeah. So it's okay for you to do it but it's worrying if somebody it's a red flag if a guy does it for a girl. It's worrying both ways because there's plenty of females psychopaths who just don't really hear about that. And I'd be saying to if you were advising the guys that you were dating if there was two of you. And you saw you behaving the way that you do with guys. What do you think you would advise the guys? So basically an antidote to someone like me. What would you say? Would you be that's a red flag? I'd be worried about this. Yeah. I would tell them which red flags are there. And I do have men that I coach because like I've yeah another thing that I wanted to say about how I discovered how much men helped like I went to a party with my husband and it was all and it was like you use for friends. And I was they were talking about their girlfriends and whatnot and then they said that they would be devastated if they cheated on them. And I thought men and actually like they don't have that emotion and like they wouldn't hear about cheating on someone and sent the guy saying he couldn't live with himself. It's he to done it.

1:05:16Yeah. If he'd done it. And it's like okay Matt maybe they're not so bad. And then I went to Europe by myself and every single time it was a European man who would help me get my bag who would get it off the the conveyor belt. And they would get me like free meals and stuff and I know the intention behind some of that but some of it was genuinely just helping. No the gentleman or like yeah like and even like Russian guys like Russian there was like a lot of these airports that have like the stairs going up and down for the tarmac. And so I did love my suitcases up there and it was so annoying. And this Russian guy he just grabbed my suitcase took it down went across the tarmac went up the stairs to the plane put it over my head and just walked away and I was like gentleman. What's the story about you and your husband? Okay so we met when I was doing Miss Universe New Zealand and I went on a date with him which was meant to be a double date with my friend and that guy bailed so it was just like him

1:06:18with two Miss Universe girls and he got really really nervous beforehand but we just hit it off so fast. So we were talking about politics like we have the same belief system I don't have to lie and so I was like a leftist for a leftist person. So he was a genuine conservative I'm a genuine conservative he was like he was consistent with his effort and he was such a cheap skater at that time. So if he he went out of his way to go buy new clothes to see me and I appreciate that. I appreciate putting in time and effort for somebody because that's also what I will do if I truly find interest in somebody I will dress how they like. I will be you know make sure I'm in their corner always but he was fantastic. We had a couple of dates before I to go back to Australia and then I flew him to Australia with my money and he never left. So we kind of moved in together he moved into my parents' house which was pretty taboo at the time but I mean they weren't too angry because they saw that he was genuine and

1:07:24after three months I didn't feel content I felt happy like I felt open like I can actually talk about things. What was the difference? I think because he's so calm like he's this anchor that I've never really had outside of my father and he is one of the best men I've ever known like he doesn't even eat if I haven't eaten and he is like he's known as floor guy because when I go to transfusions he sleeps on the floor with me while I'm getting transfused and like there's not a lot of people who would go to those lengths like the way he sponsored my Europe trip like he was working so hard and he does so much for me he does so much for our like fur babies and he has the values that I've always really appreciated. Is this the first time? Are you in love? Yes. Right. Is this the first time you felt that? I don't know it was one before but it wasn't the same.

1:08:26This is like this is something that can endure. I didn't think that one could endure the first one. Is it difficult being in a relationship you mentioned if somebody says something gets on my nerves and noise me agitates me if they're doing something wrong if they make me feel a certain way negative too much push back if I kind of don't get what I want but in relationships it's really important to have that push and pull because you don't always know what's right for you and if it's somebody off the street or somebody you have no loyalty with that kind of doesn't matter but if it's your partner it's really important for them to push you into place to show you the blind spots. A lot of those blind spots are going to be uncomfortable. If you do something say hey you're being an asshole and that's what he says. But why is that? Is there a tension inside of you now? You've got this person, you've got the loyalty thing but you've also got this very fundamental physics inside of your system that you've had for far longer than him. Yes. To those two things clash?

1:09:26They do clash a lot. The thing is with him is that I see everything that he does for me and I also give him grace because around him I don't have to wear a mask. I can't, of course he causes agitation. In France when he was sleeping I was like you snore like a fucking chainsaw and it was pissing me off. And then I was trying to learn French on Duolingo and he kept like being annoyed when the bell went off when I got something correct and so I got really angry at him but the way I sort of handle the relationship with him is that we keep things pretty fresh, we change things around a lot because I don't like monotony. What does that look like? So we like travel to different places, we were involved with like going through the Epstein files like we were on to that well before it was like being talked by the DOJ and so we went there, we were met up with Jeffrey's brother Mark who was nothing like Jeffrey.

1:10:30He was a great guy, great amazing guy. And so we get into like weird places, like together we've been a force to be reckoned with. Alone I can be sort of like an explosive that can go off at certain times or it could be like an ice block that melts over time but with him he kind of will reign me in and he can also do it in a way that I don't find disrespectful and I've had my fights with him. And so I had a time at the pool I went to with my friend Marie who had an Asian background and this white lady was like oh you two can't swim properly and I was like I've been swimming here every single day for like two years so you can just shut the fuck up. And so my husband he didn't stand up for me that because he's not a confrontational person. And so I threatened to break up because I was like I can't deal with someone who won't stand up for me because I'm a very confrontational person if someone has a problem with me and they talk shit about me I'll go directly to them.

1:11:31So that was sort of a problem we hadn't start and he was a little bit worried about like you know what psychop of he is and all of that food. I imagine he might have had a few questions. Yes, yes. Yeah, that's fair. In other news have you ever noticed how some websites make it ridiculously easy to buy while some feel infinitely harder? Back in my day I had to walk 10 miles to the local store. I'm getting younger than me. Yeah but my dad got a DUI. Anyway, the reality is most businesses just get the website wrong and if your setup is messy you lose a ton of sales which is why I'm such a massive fan of Shopify. They power 10% of all e-commerce in the United States including brands like Jim Shark, Skims, Allo and Utonic because when it comes to converting browsers into buyers they are best in class. They check out 36% better on average compared to other platforms and with shop pay, can boost conversions by 50%. So upgrade your business and get the exact same checkout that we use at Utonic with Shopify. You can sign up for a free trial period by going to the link in the description below

1:12:34or heading to shopify.com slash modern wisdom that shopify.com slash modern wisdom. In 2021 you said that you were scared of becoming an abuser. Yes. Today your slogan on your website is stop being the victim, start being the villain. See I don't know what happened to the woman who was frightened of becoming abusive. Well, I don't want to be abusive to people I know. I don't know what all the shit people have done. If you're dealing with a guy who's ruined your life why shouldn't you be abusive in return. But I also must say that he runs my website so it's not your case. It's his copy, not yours. It's not mine. Interesting. I think looking at a lot of the dating advice that's in your book, some of the stuff that's on the website, it just feels quite manipulative. Is that fair? I think it is fair. Yeah. Right. Do you think that teaching women manipulative dating tactics could cause them to introduce toxic games into actually healthy relationships?

1:13:35I try to avoid that especially with my coaching clients. I tell them where ruthlessness should begin and where it should end. And it should definitely end when you're in a secure relationship. You don't want to damage that in any way shape or form. So I value people's relationships if they are good for them. But if some guy is making you feel like shit saying that he's got better options than you and he's treating you like you're nothing, like you're a speck of dust, then it's more than fair for me to tell them. Like if you want to get revenge or if you want to feel empowered again, like if you want to be in power again, then you can use these methods. So you can have the benefits of psychopathy without all the negatives of psychopathy. What are some of the methods? So the methods of getting revenge on somebody or of regaining power especially early in a relationship I suppose. So basically I've had a lot of women who like they, I don't know, slept with a guy for

1:14:36a while and they don't know how to make him commit and they don't want to give him up. And so they'll book coaching calls for me not take my advice because they're weak women are weak and so it pisses me off. But I still tell them like this is what you need to do in terms of methods like if he thinks he's better than you show him your other options like not directly because men aren't stupid and men know when things are happening. So don't rob it in his face, just let him know about it. Just let him know you've got options and you're going to put up with the shit. I also tell them to have the shit tests, right? The shit tests are important because you need to see what he will do under different circumstances before you commit to him. And I think men should be able to do that as well. I just don't like the advice that say fresh and fit give of like making a woman feel like she's garbage so that she's like lowered herself a steam to be with you. So that's not really what I tell people to do at all.

1:15:38That sounds like some of the bits of advice that I've seen from you get perilously close to that. The push and pull that you're supposed to love by him and then withdraw it that you should find out what makes him anxious and vulnerable and then know how to push those buttons in order to make him need you a lot. That to me feels just like an inversion of some of the worst bits of dating advice that have come from the other side of the fence. Okay. So I feel like women can't do as much damage as men most of the time. There are some exceptions to that of course. And I also know that women are very moderate so they're going to pull back what I say. They're going to not do that because they just can't. Like I have proven time and time again that they can't. They want to live by curiosity through me but they cannot carry that out. But if they can carry it out to a point where they don't feel unstable, that's what you need to be. So I know the limitations. I know that if I put him here to a certain extent and they obviously will not go to that

1:16:43level, they will not go to that line. They will be well before that line. It's kind of like when in your drama school when they're like bring out all your energy and then drive back in. So are there going to be a couple of women who become genuinely abusive potentially? But I am not giving them any materials myself. If they choose to harm someone, that's not my fault. They can choose to take the advice in a book in general or they could not. If Andrew Tate published your book with the pronouns reversed, how do you think he'd describe it? Pretty much his like it would be his ticket to fame except without sex trafficking. When it comes to dating advice though, a lot of what's being put across, it seems like you really stand in opposition to men that are manipulating women to men that are trying to use dopamine and psychology in an attempt to create a need that maybe isn't there, create

1:17:48a power differential, a degree of dependency. People are saying that women men don't feel the impact of that in the same way that women do and that women can't deploy the power of that in the same way that men can. Exactly. Maybe I would say women are into personally much more deft than men are, are much more effective. Women are better lying detectors. They're also better liars. They are better at venting and gossip. That's why the movie Mean Girls was made about it wasn't mean boys, it was mean girls. I understand what you mean that empathy may be a little bit higher in women on average. But something tells me that those are the sorts of women that are going to be seeking out your content. I wonder whether or not we're putting a performance enhancing drug on top of women who already maybe have this disposition and you've identified yourself, there's, wow, I didn't know that

1:18:52men would feel guilt if they cheated on their partner. Well, I didn't know that men would feel, you know, there might be another, wow, I didn't know that men actually might be able to feel pain of being ghosted or men feeling the pain of being ghosted. Absolutely. Absolutely. I would say so. Yeah. I think if a guy is, look, the certainly men who understand that applying enough a lot of romantic pressure early in a relationship can get a woman to fall for them. But what they're doing is trying to emulate the realness of that. Yes. They have to be men that are just doing the realness thing, right? Not everybody is trying to play the game or else the signal wouldn't work. But the thing is, men are far more likely to be Machiavellian. Far more likely. It's like one in twenty for men. It's like one in a hundred for women. Okay. So you're talking about 5%. Yeah, but those are 95%. Those are 95% for women. That's true.

1:19:52That's a fair point. You know, you're right. The men that are the sociosexual few at the top. Now it's interesting. It's actually the sociosexual few men with the sociosexual few women. Yes. Doesn't tend to be the guys that are like the 80-20 thing doesn't seem to really be that true anymore. I understand what you mean. I understand why it's important for people to understand how manipulation works. I think what's dangerous is when you start to teach people to do it in reverse. That's where you... What you do is you create the incentive to damage people who are trying to do things legitimately. So the romance, the love bombing, the care, the attention, the affection, it might just be a guy who's like, I found my fucking woman. I found my woman and I can't stop thinking about her. I'm going to do the flowers thing. I'm going to send to the messages. You know, the Disney Princess romance movie. Think the exact romcom stuff that I think a lot of women want. And what I worry is that those women become skeptical of the motivations of guys doing

1:21:00things with all of the legitimacy that they wanted and everything is seen through what that's love bombing. You know, if he's texting you three times in an hour, that's too much. Or if you get flowers after the first, because if you don't ring a girl, that would be bad. But if you got flowers the next day, that would be too much. It's like, well, I don't know. Maybe he's just like, oh my god, that was the greatest night of my life. I've found my wife. He's telling all of his friends. Or maybe he's a fuck boy that you're just on the roster. You're in the WhatsApp broadcast list and working out the difference between those two. I worry that there might be some women who basically lose the person who was doing the thing they really wanted because they're seeing it as a tactic as opposed to an emotion. Does that make sense? That's the purpose of shit tests. So you ask them to go slightly, inconveniently out of their way to help you in some way. So I'm not saying you have to help move her house or something. She's moving house. You have to go handle all of that. It's like, do you mind picking this up on your way here? Do you mind meeting me here even though it's a little bit further from you?

1:22:00Do you mind? It's the utility stuff because a man who loves you, or cares about you, or wants to genuinely be with this woman and he's like, oh my god, I love her so much. This is fantastic. I met my woman. They're not going to have a problem with that. They're not saying. So you're looking for effort. Exactly. Yeah, there's a word. Words mean nothing. There's a line from Matthew Hussey, which is invest in people based on how much they invest in you. Exactly. And that is for him, especially softly, softly Matthew Hussey, quasi-suspectic, right? Because it's to do with the transactions, to do with the, as long as she showed for me. Look, I don't disagree with... Also, realistically, how many men are going to actually take you to Paris later that night? They promise you in the morning and coffee. How many are they going to actually take you to Paris that evening? I guess it depends on how good the sex is. Tell me in the past how you dealt with breakups.

1:23:00Okay. So I broke up with, I tend to accidentally break up with guys on their birthdays. So one guy I broke up with him and he was like, he drove to my house and he was sitting outside and he was crying and he was texting me constantly. Please come out, please come out, please come out. On his birthday. On his birthday. I didn't know because I didn't ask. So I was like, I'm not coming out. I'm not interested. I'm done. Please leave. And if you don't leave, like, I'm not going to come out regardless. Slay that night. So I was just watching him cry in the car. How did you feel when you were watching him cry? I think I laughed a little bit and then eventually got really pathetic. So I just close the blinds. So I tend to be as gentle as I can or I tend to just move very slowly away. So I'll start to draw back. Like, there'll be less communication. There'll be less effort from me.

1:24:00There'll be less prioritization. Like not clean cut. You don't just say sometimes I do. Sometimes I'm just like, okay, we're incompatible in this and this and this. And these are things that we cannot overcome. So we just need to handle it. And so I've dealt with all kinds of like breakups with people. So I think the most effective is generally fading away. The most effective way to break up with somebody is... Yeah, because the ones that I tell them that we can't work out, they're always like, oh no, I can do this and I can do that and I can do this and we can make a work. It's like, I don't want you to. And they don't take that as a final answer. Even I don't want you to isn't taken as a final answer. Yeah. That's happened to be plenty of times. Rather than giving justifications, in the past, did you try saying, I don't want to be in this relationship anymore and not give a justification? Well, once I called a guy, they told him he was getting fat.

1:25:03That's still a justification. I don't want to be in this relationship anymore. No, no, I would not do that. Why? I don't know. I've just not been a person like that. I wonder whether there's something about that utilitarian thing coming through again, but whether there needs to be a ledger of some kind. I have to have a justification for this. But that's actually needing to have a justification for it is actually quite a human thing. Yeah, so it's like letting them know that something exists, not necessarily them actually doing it. So I'll set up an arbitrary boundary of like, don't take some for this time and then they start doing it regularly. And I'm like, okay, I've given you this. And my actual motivation would be completely different to how I presented. You just don't want to be in the relationship, but you made this rule interesting. Let's say that you had neurotypical children. Yes. Would you encourage them to date a sociopath? Yes. Why? Because if you are a real sociopath, a real psychopath, if they are genuinely on your team,

1:26:08you have someone who is willing to harm people for you. They are right or die for you. They're in your corner. They're choosing to love you every single day. They're not a slave to their emotions and the brain chemicals. They are making an effort to be there for you. And Dr. K, he's from Healthy Game Adity. He even spoke on this. He said people who are capable of these heinous things have chosen to be on your side and they will carry out the instrumental damage to other people for you and they will be your shield. So I think there's absolute, like first you bet the crap out of them, bet them, bet them, bet them. Even sociopaths think about the mass slips regardless. If I hung out with you for a week, it would slip fully. You would see it. No matter how hard I try, it will slip. How long? Because you know, you can hold together a two-hour podcast relatively well. When does it begin to get difficult? A couple of days in, a weekend, a couple of weeks.

1:27:09A week. A week, you'll start seeing. What does that look like? What does start seeing? You start seeing like less enthusiastic responses. You'd see like less courteousness, although more callous. More callous, definitely more callous. It's less me trying to appease or trying to cater to somebody. It would be the true self coming out. Do you think some men get turned on at the idea of being manipulated? Yeah, they do. They come into my DMs regularly. They're like asking me if I can manipulate them. They'll give me money for it. Was that pay pig stuff, but manipulate pig stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah, pay pigs. And then there's like submissive men, especially. They'll come up to me and they'll be like, oh, I find you so attractive. Or I love that you could like make me do anything. And you say the most dial things and still are so hot. So I get that a lot. I find it really repulsive because I do.

1:28:10Anything that's linked, I guess, to sexual gratification is something I find really dirty. Sajuli. Yeah, casually. And that's exactly what they're wanting. I mean, they're getting off on it. There's nothing for me. I had a friend in university who was doing financial, findom, financial dominate, dominate tricking. And this guy would send her, I didn't realize how it worked. It's fucking gnarly. This guy would send her his pay packet at the start of every week or at the start of every month. And she would drip feed him 50p, one pound, one pound 50 daily. And he would have to beg and she would have this, all of these videos and stuff. And it was a consensual and consensual relationship. Like because the whole premise was, I need you to send me more. No, I won't. But then at the start of each month, she would get his entire pay packet.

1:29:10And there was a time when the car was out of gas. And he was married with kids. The car was out of gas. And he needed to drive to work. And she just sent him 50p instead, get the bus instead. And he said, that can't even get me that. And she said, well, just walk. And you go, okay, at what point does this weird kind of self mistreatness, kind of like financial self harm that you're legitimating somebody else doing on your behalf? Yeah. Ethically, I still have no idea. That was 15 fucking years ago. And I still don't know how I feel about it. But it's strange that some people can get off sexually with that. And what your distaste is around is the fact that they're feeling sexually, even if you don't feel it. Yeah. That's very interesting. I don't like the other feeling of them thinking they can, I guess, sexually have power. Still pleasure in the way. Yeah, exactly.

1:30:10I think it's interesting that you're sort of stopping. You've got this disconcerting sensation around men wanting to be manipulated by you. I feel like part of the status issue as well is it's such a lowering of them in comparison to you. It seems like pity is a little bit of an element in here as well. Is that fair? So I've had a lot of guys come up to me on Tinder or whatever and say, you're too good for me. And there's something really disgusting in that for me. It's like either he's trying to get me to compliment him to the point where he's at the status where he believes me to be or he wants me to abandon my own self and, you know, it's a game or it's low self-wise. Exactly. Exactly. And so when they say that, like when they said it before, I used to be like, okay, let me just respond with something nice. And then I realized most of them are really terrible people.

1:31:12And if you're automatically disqualifying yourself, then like I have no reason to show any interest in you. And I don't find it attractive that you don't have any self respect. It's just it's something that's eaky. I don't like weakness and I don't like pathetic sort of situations like that. What are some of the things that you don't understand about yourself? Why I have so many hypocritical positions on things, why I've cultivated an audience that isn't anything like me. Like I'm a conservative. If I want a conservative base, I want to be able to talk about politics. I want to be able to talk about things that I care about. And my audience is just capturing me in this place where I have to pretend to care about the ridiculous and quite often degrading and degenerate behavior. Like I've cultivated this and it pisses me off. And then anything with psychopathy, it brings more women, more crazy women in my inbox.

1:32:17And it's like it's great if they're buying my book, okay? It's great if they book, booking coaching sessions. But I hate them. So it's like this, there's this like duality of it. It's like you either provide me use or you don't. And that's kind of a position I have. I also don't know why I support women in general when women of course me the most harm out of everyone. I also feel like how I expect empathy and stuff from other people, even though I can't reciprocate. The weirdest thing about me is like I would say... Oh the weirdest, come on. The weirdest thing about me is that I get really confused when people don't like me. Like I'm saying people I don't even know and they're in relationships with other people who are not me. Like it makes no sense. It's like I know logically that I know I exist, right? But it's like how can someone be in a relationship with someone who is not me?

1:33:19Is that the grandiosity? I think it is. I think that's narcissism. Narcissism. But yeah, like I really saw that example of what I'm saying. The example of what a psychopath or alleged psychopath is, is cancelons. So over time she dripped feeds her audience like little bits of, oh here's more information about Charlie's death even though it's got nothing to do with Charlie and he's just trying to get views. That's a psychopath's play. How can someone detect if another person's a sociopath or a psychopath? Like the eyes, then you could do a simple test with the your own test, smile test. We don't, you're on when you're on. We don't smile. Laughing isn't contagious for us. We'll generally mirror what you, your positions are. Tilted head means more like they, like we're looking like we're actually trying to understand everything you're saying. Remembering your name, all of those things that are very, very specific, compliments on obscure things. Like I like people's noses and so like I think you have a nice nose and I think there's

1:34:24like Rob Lowe is my ideal because he's got like the perfect, most tiny little nose. So things like that, like there's the peculiarities of psychopaths. And another thing that you would notice is so we have weird justification in our head for things. And so you know BTK, Dennis Raider. No, he wouldn't, he was a serial killer, a bind torture kill. Okay. I didn't rape the women because that he killed because he said they'll be cheating on his wife. And what's the edge, Ed Kenpo was like, yeah, I killed her, but I never hit her. So it's like there's this weird little things that you'll notice that are off. And there are, you'll tell that there's, if you can study people's faces, there'll be little microaggressions. Like usually when you lie and get away with it, there's like a little bit of a smile coming up like and like I don't know what the direct term for it is, but that's really, really something you'll see. And also with actions, you'll see psychopaths will help you only when it's useful for

1:35:28them generally. But if they are helping you in times that you are offering nothing in return, then you've made it into sort of a successful relationship with a psychopath. Who do you think some of the most famous sociopaths in the world out there at the moment are? Ken, so I was just in Tudor, Gavin Newsom, JD Bands. Who else? JD, but not Trump. Not Trump, Trump's a knock. He's a narcissist. Okay. Yeah. Who else is? Oh, so many people, Kevin Spacey. Please don't kill me, Kevin Spacey. They all seem to go. I think you're the wrong gender for Kevin. True. True. Who else? Angelina Jolli. I think Angelina is a sociopath. I think the front of being an ambassador for charities and not speaking out for the Jews

1:36:31and not actually acknowledging that women were raped and tortured on the seventh of October in 2023. That's really hypocritical. She loves stealing other people's man. She literally breaks up relationships on a regular basis. She seems to use people a lot for what they have and nothing that she does seems like it is genuine affection. But also Mark Zuckerberg. He's like a lizard. You can see he doesn't blink. That's something you should probably look at. But the Mark Zuckerberg thing, that was before he had his sartorial revamp. As soon as he started wearing chains, all of that stuff went away. I've spent time with Mark and I was like, okay, I'm going to lock in. I'm going to lock in on this guy and I'm going to check. Is there a second set of eyelids or whatever? I'm not here to fucking shell for matter or close up at all, but he is outstandingly normal.

1:37:33I watched him and Jocka Willink roll BJJ together. I looked real close. You really didn't notice anything. I'm pretty good at reading people. Really? Yeah, I'm pretty good at reading people and I didn't see anything at all. A nice guy around his family, a nice guy around his kids. You don't know behind closed doors. It's true, but it was like two or three days watching him interact with staff, watching him interact with definitely a real high thinking, airy, distracted guy. Who the fuck is punished to build businesses like that and doesn't have that skill? I'm not the sociopath whisperer here. Ariana Grande is a prolific homewriter. Oh, yes. I was going to say Ariana as well. But do you think can someone be a homewriter without being a sociopath? Yeah, they can. But the way that she does it is in the most malicious way possible. That's her goal is to break up the relationship. It's not that she's just madly in love with this man.

1:38:34Why would that be something useful or interesting? Because there's joy in watching the pain. I guess a side of sadism. But you haven't talked about that. We haven't talked about the sadism thing. You've talked about wanting to get revenge on people. Some girl says something that's mean and then you do something. The sadism side seems to have fallen away a little bit. Well, I've been really gone into detail. Well, let's go into detail. Tell me about the sadism part of it. So there's a lot of people that I purposely, like I tell them that I like them and whatnot. I like show them vulnerability so that they'll show me theirs. And then I actually enjoy watching them suffer. I'll give them incorrect advice so that I know that they are not not my clients. But literally I will lead them astray. I know exactly how to turn them. I know exactly how their mind works. I can make them. I can break them. Seeing someone begging you to see them and like being a fully grown man crying.

1:39:37There's a satisfaction in that. There's a lot of satisfaction. What's the sensation? Thrill. It's like a thrill. It's like adrenaline. It's like, oh my god, look at what he's willing to do for me. My power. The power. Yes, some submitting, I guess. And that's something I like outside of, I guess, sexual relationships or romantic relationships. I don't really like submissive man. I think they're disgusting. But I'm saying in terms of like seeing emotional pain, that is something that I enjoy. Like I write the most, like I think funny insults. And I'm like, I'm like, you have less integrity than Reinhardt Hydrix. So let's not get into that. But there's a certain sort of suffering like where you leave an emotional gap for them that they desperately need closure from you. And so they'll like run, like run in circles trying to please you, trying to get that out of you. And I will never give that person closure because I know that I'll have control over them

1:40:37for the rest of their lives. People try to get over it. But I've had people from nine years ago tell me that they're having dreams about me. And so I feel like to a level it's working. And there's also with the physical say, the physical say to them was more something in childhood. I would enjoy watching them get injured. I would enjoy watching them bleed. I guess I would enjoy pushing her off the stool because every single day she had new bruise. I used to, but now I think because I guess there's an element of being charged as an adult for crimes like that or like for fraud. If I start stealing credit cards again, or if I see people like, for example, when I stole a credit card from a girl's wallet at university, I went and I was like, I'm going to go to the hospital. And I was comforting her. She was like, someone went on a shopping spree with my card. And I was like, that is so awful. People are despicable. People are really bad. I was like hugging her. Meanwhile, I was spending all her money.

1:41:37So there was that kind of delight in watching her do that. And then the girl that I ruined, the patient one, there was so much joy in seeing her like go into a level of depression that seemed unbearable because her depression is not like my depression as that I don't think it is. So seeing that struggle, that one felt righteous though. It's righteous. I feel like those, I did the girl with the credit card do anything. No, she cancelled the card. I mean, did she do anything to justify the stealing of the card? No, I just wanted to. So I can see, this is where for me, the real discomfort comes in, which is if you do something to someone and you get an outsized piece of revenge, horrible, very painful, but at least in the equation of normal human psychology, you can understand it. It's when it's senseless. There's no justifiable reason.

1:42:39There's no understandable explanation for why this thing happened. That to me is where I go, holy fuck, because I think the reason that feels that way is there's no control. Yeah. That if you decide to poke the bear too many, want too many times and it hits you, okay, at least if I don't poke a bear, I'm not going to get hit. Whereas if I'm just some girl who didn't do anything, didn't try to say something mean to you at Miss Universe and then the country of Venezuela comes after me, that I was just some girl that had a handbag and there was a card there and now it's gone. And then I'm being manipulated into thinking that I've got a friend and the friend's actually spending all my money and that feels a bit different. Yes, yes, and that's why I don't do that anymore. But maybe there's something in the subconscious level that I didn't know what I had a reason for it, but nothing comes to mind. It would have been jealous of her. It could have been something else. It could have been anything really. Do you ever wish that you could feel normal emotions and care for people like a typical human? I feel like I already do that for people who are worthy of it.

1:43:44I don't do it for what am I going to get out of being kind to someone who's not going to support me. She's not going to be in my corner when I need them. It's just time-consuming to care for many, many people. And sometimes do I wish I could be behind a glass wall? Sure. It's lonely sometimes. It is. And people don't realize that. People don't realize how hard it is to actually deal with this disorder. And people try to fake it. They want it. And it's like it's actual hell. You never actually feel like a full functioning person. I feel like I didn't really grow up either. It talks to friends that I haven't talked to them in years. They will have children doing all of this. And I'm still in the same mindset. And it's like it's really frustrating. And though I've achieved quite a lot since then, I was on my dream show the other day on Sean Hannity because I used to watch him with my dad when I was little.

1:44:47And so that was amazing. And I do all of that stuff. And I've been at the trials of Gilland Maxwell. I've done all of this stuff. I was literally in her bathtub to get a photo. Essentially? Well, she wasn't there. She was impressive. So her house was up for sale. So it was like the perfect time to go in and get evidence. You treated it like a museum. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. Yeah. I was just trying to see the logistics of that bathtub and how many people it could fit because the junior due fray and was saying that Prince Andrew had a tour in that bathtub. And so I was just trying to see if that, like, you know, panned out. What did you discover? I could barely fit. I'm five foot. As far as I know Prince Andrew was six foot. And Virginia was five eight. So if I struggled in there, I'd... That feels like a flimsy bath. So for somebody that's got a lot of money.

1:45:47Her house. Did you judge her? Yeah, her house is trash. But it's in Kensington. So it's like... Expensive postcard. Yeah, exactly. So I understand about, I think I've got normal emotions. I think I do have emotions for the people that I care about. Do you know the difference between a local maxima and global maxima? Yes. Cool. So you can only optimize the things that you know. Exactly. Stuff that you don't know you can't optimize for. And sometimes you're stuck inside of a local maxima. There might be a higher, higher or more returns that you can get by trying a different approach. But if you don't know the approach, you're constrained by what you know. Yes. I'm wondering... I'm trying to give you a very utilitarian justification for perhaps broadening that. Like that. That it does make sense to do things for people, even if you were looking at it totally star-ily, apart from the fact it's good and prosocial and rar-rar-rar. It makes sense to do things for people that you can't see a direct return from, especially

1:46:48if they're different on new things, because you don't know what you don't know, and you don't fully understand how that repercussion could come back around. Many times you talked about somebody from nine years ago that you've forgotten about is still being affected by you. You might not have known nine years ago that that would be the case. So you had a local maxima there and there's a global maxima that's higher by doing something you didn't know about. The same thing can happen in the positive way too. You go, I'm just going to do this thing for a friend and maybe they pay me back, maybe they don't. And then something happens. The return that comes back around from this, even if you couldn't have done the calculus, ends up being unbelievably positive for you in your life. So I wonder whether you're going to slowly accumulate more of these algorithms where you go, huh, that's an issue. Because what you're doing basically is a very slow walk of pro-social human evolution just inside of one person. Like you're having to learn it step by step by step as opposed to being bootloaded with the source code that most of us have got. Absolutely.

1:47:48And what I'm interested in is, first off, if you make it to the end of life without getting into some like real, real trouble. But secondly, how far along that you get? It's like how many normal human behaviors are you going to learn psychologically through deliberate practice? And because you said before, you had physical and criminal tendencies more so, they became a little bit more domesticated. Okay, now I've got friends. Okay, now I've got a partner. Okay, now I've got now. I've got responsibilities. Exactly. Yeah. How far along are you going to get through life? I think that's kind of... That's actually a great question. So I think that like the Christianity really helped and Charlie Kirk really helped get me there. It was the fact that, you know, he would say like do one good thing every day for somebody. And the thing is I am, I love showering people with gifts and I love like taking care of them. Even if I know that they could pay me back maybe.

1:48:52But there's just like, I just like that. So sometimes like with the love bombing, sometimes it's like I am genuinely excited because I'm so flat that things sort of, I need things to happen to actually feel anything. But in terms of actually developing pro social behaviors and learning from other people, I feel like I'm doing that. I feel like I'm doing that on a regular basis. I feel like the traditions and the authority of the Orthodox Church is helping me. Like being... Because I actually love hierarchies. I love hierarchies. I love... Presumably if you're quite high up then. But the thing is it's like there's this discipline that it teaches you that I don't have and I want to learn it. So you have to stand for two hours. You have to submit. Yeah, you have to stand for two hours for the service. There's no sit down. There's no pews. You have to fast Wednesdays and Fridays. That's a way to reduce gluttony. And the church is a hospital.

1:49:53So if you're sick or if you're committed sins, like what I have, they don't treat you like a criminal. They treat you like a person who needs help at a hospital. And the priests that don't judge you. So it seems to me that the forgiveness element is a big part of that. But how is it that you're learning the value of forgiveness for you but not applying that to other people? If this is now the new thing which is one of the biggest life changes that you've gone through, I would assume, okay. I'm trying. I am trying to be more like forgiving to people like to pray. How's that going? It's hard because my priest says if you can't pray for them, just pray for yourself. And they're like, you are a little hatred for them until you are at a point where you can pray for them. And I just feel really connected to them because like I love the advice that they give. I love that it's like a spiritual father. So my natural father, I've got a spiritual father who I can run decisions by if they're

1:50:54like, you know, something that would be harmful to other people. Like I like having that as a sort of restriction. And I like the stability of the church. It hasn't changed in 2000 years. So there's like this sense of traditional circumstances, traditional values that I had in my home. I don't think that necessarily I can do everything an all more human can do. Like we love in our own way. We have care for people in our own way. It's just a lot of people don't make the cut unfortunately. And I'm trying to get to that stage where I'm able to do far more good than bad. And I feel like I'm well on my way to that. I've heard that you're some special type of soprano as well. Coloratura. Can I hear what that sounds like?

1:51:56I can't do that. And nobody can. Can't make a mantra, ladies and gentlemen. What's coming up next for you? Like what do you want out of the next couple of? I want to write another book. I want to be a commentator politically for the conservative movement because it's got a big rift in it at the moment. And I would like to ideally be on the way to having a family and be baptized into the old adults church. I'll be watching with interest. I appreciate you very much. Where should people go to check out everything you do? Everything's on my Instagram. My website is canekarbrose.com. It has my book on it. It has the concilium where I teach you how to avoid manipulation and how to get your freedom back from the cage that is your brain. Thank you. Thank you.