Facebook’s Invisible Back Button And How to Fix It & When Audio Description Goes Too Far

0:00Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called chat-concierge and it's simplifying car shopping using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks. It doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trading value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One. Right here on the channel that brings you such shows as reflections here, my audio boot, coffee, series people talking about serious issues, and us. Hello, hello, hello, hello, Sean Priest. How are you today?

1:01Awful. Absolutely terrible. I'm bereft. Steve, what's going on? No, I can't go back. That's it. I just can't go back. I'm trying to think it's a song I can think of. Is it a can't go back? Can't I know who you lose? Yes. Can't you DJ at me? Too many years doing radio. Hit me with a song. We'll get an artist that I miss somewhere. Maybe they're on one, but we'll get one. Well done. In the latest update to Facebook, the back button has become invisible. Now, I'm sure you know about this, Steven Scott, because it seems to be the number one hot topic in social media in every blind group out there. It's all I see. It is annoying, true. But yes, there's a solution. We have fixes. Yes, we have fixes. We have workurines. Yeah, let's go with that. Look, this is a bad one.

2:02And look, Facebook, they've got form here, right? There's been a lot of, I should say, issues over the past few years with the app where something updates and breaks something else. Not unique, by the way, this is other apps are broken too. That's the balance. Other broken apps are available. But but honestly, you know, it is getting a bit annoying. This particular issue affects people who are trying to use it. As you say, the back button and it is appearing as, well, it's not even appearing. It is on the screen, but it's invisible to voice over. Unless, I think if you use screen recognition, right? Yeah, that's why I don't use as much these days. I find it quite logical. You use it when you absolutely need to. So there's two workurines for this screen recognition. If you turn that on and swipe around the back button magically reappears to voice over. But of course, the trouble with screen reader is you want to turn it off as soon as you can because it makes navigating around everything else. Screen recognition. Yeah, yeah. Screen recognition. What did I say? You said screen reader, which would be actually harder.

3:05Oh, yes, that's very true. Screen recognition. I will admit, I'm going to tell you something, this is a double tap fact. It is harder as a blind person to navigate around your screen without a screen reader. That is a fact. I'll give you that one. Yes, screen recognition. But it does allow you to find that back button because once you go into a post, oh, that sounds interesting. Let me double tap and go into that post. Now I'm stuck here forever and lots of people have been going into the app switcher and closing out the app. But yeah, you can use screen recognition. Far easier, though, is to use the two-finger scrub gesture. Now why've realized? Because I jumped on or sure of myself and say, yeah, it's fine. Just use the two-finger scrub to go back. And what I discovered by that, Steven Scott, is that not everyone knows the two-finger scrub gesture. I believe we call that here a double tap. Who knew? Who knew? Indeed. I think it's more I'm in my own little bubble. I just assumed it's just part of my... That's the whole point

4:09of who you use. That's exactly why I invented the words U and New and put them together. I did all by myself. And I think it was the combination that was the king moment there, really. Was it incredibly marketing? Yes, it's all about putting these words in the right order. But yeah, who knew? And that comes out of the fact that there are these things that people will know. We will know individually or otherwise. I mean, the other day, I was saying to you, God, this NVIDIA voice is so loud in my head, how can I turn it down? And you said, oh, yeah, it's just NVIDIA control left out or right out of until you get to volume and then out of up and down to change the volume. Who knew? I didn't know that was an option. Little Roger almost built into NVIDIA. Yeah, you did. But that's the point, isn't it? It's called the synth ring or the voice ring. Yeah, but yeah, it's very cool. Synth ring. This has something of what? Star Wars. Oh, well done. I knew you were going to go sci-fi. I just didn't expect it. Did I get it right? Yes, yes, you did. Well done.

5:10Did I? Is it a thing called a synth ring? Stop it. No, there isn't. The thing is, thing is I use the two fingers scrub instead of the back button because it's just so much more convenient, right? No matter, no matter where you are, you don't have to navigate to the top of the screen. Even if you do a four finger single tap at the top half of the screen, which jumps you to the first element, which is usually the back button and then double tap. It's fine, but we all know voice over focus issue. Sometimes you get to it, you'll hear it, you'll go to double tap and it jumps just as you double tap. Two fingers scrub. No matter what the app, no matter what it is, will take you back to the previous screen. It's so convenient. You do it anywhere. The problem I had is like the rotor gesture. People seem to have difficulty performing it and trying to describe what a two finger scrub is. Well, I sort of think I've got it down now, but it is really difficult to scrub with two fingers on the screen. What would you mean scrub? Well, that's unique. Yeah, it doesn't. So how would you describe it, Steven?

6:14Scott, over to you. Well, here's my definition of it. Backwards N, perform a backwards N from right to left. As if you're writing on a mirror, that's how you do the back of the two finger scrub because it's just up, down, up. So interesting. Okay, so that's my take on it. For the longest time, it was draw a Z with two fingers or a Z. And now you like it. Draw Z on the screen. I've also, you know, draw a C on the screen. And I think actually that's the easiest one for people to grasp. And again, though, right? So it tells that this brought up. We're describing draw a letter on the screen. And then I saw a post from someone saying, I've never seen. I don't even know what a letter looks like. Looks yeah. Yeah. Of course, I'm telling you to draw. So I would say two fingers on the screen and you draw a semi circle. Just draw a circle. And it works. I've also said, just put two fingers

7:18on the screen and go left, right, left, right, left, right, left, right, right. A few times, slide your fingers, left them right. And eventually that works as well. So yes. Just delete your Facebook account. But what about the nothing glasses, Steven Scott? What about it? What was I going to do with it? That's a different app. Yeah, but it doesn't work. There's it. You need a Facebook account if you delete it. Okay. Well, don't just delete the Facebook app then. Oh, I see what you're saying. Never use it again. Just never go on there. That's it. Abandon it. Okay. Messing. Here's the thing right. He is what gets me right. All these advocates jump up and down when, you know, Elon Musk comes along and buys a company. That's it. We're abandoning ship. Everyone's, don't care who follows me. I'm off. See you later. Screw you. And then, you know, Facebook has some issues and they go, well, we kind of like Facebook. It's kind of useful. And we kind of like it. So, you know, I know they've done strange things and their app isn't particularly accessible and, you know, questionable this and questionable that. But, you know, well, principles, but never mind. We like this one. So we'll stay with it. Yeah. Excited. It's just hilarious to me. Makes me laugh. Tell you what else I noticed as well. And I didn't like this.

8:23So, as I said, everyone's asking this question. I can't go back. Where's the back button? I saw it a thousand times. And I noticed that after the initial, you know, three or four of them at this. Yeah. I am. No, listen. This is important, Stephen Scott. Is it stuck? I noticed that people were coming on saying, oh, not this question again. He's been answered a thousand times. And that was it. Do you know what? Maybe they didn't find it. Maybe they just stumbled across this panicked and what it's a post a question just answered the question. That's going to say, were these people actually offering any solution or just say, oh, he was good again. Oh, this has been answered already. Oh, this has been like the thousandth post I've seen of this. Well, you know what? You can say that. Absolutely fine. But also just say, and you can get around. Here's the work ring. Just give the answer as well. You want to silence people, Sean, please? That's what you want to do. I don't want to silence the censorship. I don't want to silence the report. It's just, you know, it's when you ask a question in your mate to feel like ridiculous about asking the question or making you feel a certain way about it. I don't like that. Anyway, stop being a, hang on, let me think.

9:29No, that's not right. Stop being a bad person. Yes. I didn't exactly bother if, by the way, because I was thinking of using a swear word, but then I thought, I thought he would, he would disapprove. So you thought swear words? You thought of Mr. I immediately thought, yeah, I hear a lot of them, you know, mostly in the meetings. I'm sure Facebook will be, I'm trying to save you here at Stevescott. I'm sure Facebook will be fixed in the next update. There's lots of, I saw a post from ACB and FB. So I'm sure they're aware of it. And hopefully it'll be fixed. Keep checking all these people with all these deep connections inside all, you know, I see this all the time, all these organizations with their deep connections and their strong relationships. Yeah. Could you get the web version fixed? I know this is all great. And I hear there's a bunch of people on Android who use Facebook who are saying, hey, hi, we've had issues for years. No one seems to care. If it's not in the iPhone, no one's interested. So, you know, come on, let's, yeah, let's, let's just, you know, let's think beyond the bubble here. I mean, you know, we're not all iPhone users. Let's just get that out there.

10:29I'm not, I'm not leaving Facebook behind here, Stevescott. I've got something else to say. Still going on about this. Is it ironic as someone that's more set? Good Canadian lady. Oh, do you feel like that? Stop it. I find it really ironic, right? I listen, we're still talking with Facebook. The two, the two shut up, the two finger gesture, right? Lovely. Great. I use it all the time except in meta AI where it doesn't work. And you've got to go up and find that terrible back button because it's the only way to go back. Good. Well, there we go. Now we know that's great. Well, let's move on, email time. I'm not saying email. That's it. You're brewing it. Go. Here's your mail today. Goose. There we go. I knew you'd do it, eventually. How wait a long enough? Oh, so you didn't give us a ding dong? That's, no, no, you don't get a ding dong. You don't deserve it.

11:30Sorry. It's not for me. It's for listeners. So you've, basically, you've upset the listeners now. You've not said me. You've disappointed. That lying people say they say, you've not set me. You've disappointed me. I think there's none of that works on me. So that doesn't make any difference. Listen, quick, hello to everyone who was at site village in Glasgow. I'd lovely chance to interview some nice people, meet some great people as well. Listen to David, who came up to me and said he loves the show. And he was enjoying the program, I guess. Yeah, I mean, I think I think that's fair. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yes. Thank you, David. Did he, did he say enjoy the bits where it's me specifically mentioned you to be honest with me now? No. No. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I think about some English guy who chimes in every so often. I'll talk about that. Yeah, yeah. Very honest. Also Tracy as well, hi to Tracy, who's doing some volunteering work with the Scottish charity. Lovely to meet you to Tracy. Thank you for listening. I was amazing. It always amazes me. It still does amazes me

12:33and people come up and see people listen to the show. And if you listen to this, I mean, you just done 10 minutes on Facebook, whatever the hell that was you were talking about. That was interesting breaking current tech and news, Steven Scott. And you're trying to move along. I'm just going to get some judges ruling on this. No, right. Yeah, right. Let's get some emails. Tom's up first. Yeah, my name's Tom from Michigan. I'd like to put it in a complaint against Apple. Never since Apple went to 26th and September, when you make a call, voice over reads the length of the time that you're on a call. Yes. And also when you answer the call, it still reads the length of the time of the call. And so basically, in 18, we didn't have an also if I was not blind and you didn't use voice over, it would affect us.

13:34I've complained every time there's been an update since September. And Apple has not fixed it. We pay $1,000 for our phone. And it doesn't seem like Apple cares, you know. And I do apologize to the department that handles assistance for the blind. They're very good, but I complain every time. I thought maybe with the way double tabs the popular you guys have, you might be able to help implement and get rid of the length of the time you're on the calls. Thank you. Have a good day. Thanks, Tom. Look, I hear you on this one because I have this too. And I notice it, especially whenever I make a call. And it's on my meta glasses because, you know, at that point, if it's a phone call and making not necessarily a WhatsApp call, you will start getting that

14:36read out. Now, it's not all the time. Doesn't do all the time. It seems to be whatever just focus lands. And of course, as we know at the minute on iOS 26, and I would say across voice over, across most of the platforms, you know, focus jumping is an issue. It's an issue. It is an issue. You're absolutely right. Now, the only way to there is no fix, you're absolutely right. And never apologize for bringing their attention to a bug, even if you've done it before because it is an issue for us voice over users. The only work around is obviously you can mute the speech before you actually make the call. Or you just move, you just move focus swipe on the screen, move the focus to the telephone number, which is usually the next element on the list as far as voice over is concerned. Yeah, but it's funny. You see that I've done that as well, but it does sometimes bones back to what the time is. I do have it because it's obviously a moving item on the screen. So it's a changing item on the screen. So perhaps that draws focus to it.

15:37Yeah, I tend just to double tap with three fingers to mute the speech, but you're absolutely right to bring this up. And it has been there a while. And it's one of those, I don't notice it all the time. But when I do, it's, oh, no, that means especially, as you said, if you're doing hands free stuff, I've now got to dig the phone out of my pocket to move focus. It's annoying. It is what I tend to do. And just it's one thing I can do really is when I get on a call, as soon as I'm on the call or as near as damn it, I put my hand in my pocket, turn the phone off as and just press the power button once to just shut the screen off. Because what I've also noticed is that even in my pocket, sometimes it will action. I don't know how this does it. The Apple Watch is the same, but it seems to be able to action itself. And I'm terrified one day that's going to call someone or do something that's very close to it in a few occasions, done it, where if the phone is unlocked, you know, it just starts doing things. It's like having, I don't know, AI, but really, really, really bad AI in other words, your pocket, press the button. I'm going to say something here. Pocket AI. And for sensitive listeners, please just be aware.

16:44Is that your thigh, Stephen Scott, activate the screen? If you put your phone in your pocket with the screen facing away rather than facing your, your moist thigh, your moist thigh. But I'm just, I'm just saying, it needs to conduct some sort of, and let's focus you on. But when I leave the house, I don't know about you, but I put what's called clothes on, which, yes, I mean, you know, I have to say, I know I tend to rebel against society quite a lot and a lot of things. That's not one area that I do. I tend to go along with society on this one. I think we should all wear clothes. I see wear clothes. Sorry, I just assumed it was a kill affair. I don't know. Okay. Yes, moist thigh. Okay, please don't say that again. That is. Yeah. Yeah. I did to the long list of bugs that we have, you know, for voiceover. And I know it's frustrating. And I know a lot of the time, it seems like you're banging your head against a brick wall. But the only thing we can do at this point is just keep telling them. Yeah. That's it. Well, we will pass it on as best we can. You know,

17:48I suppose it's, you've got deep connections. I've got deep connections. Yeah. Yeah. No one listens to me. You're kidding. Right. Let's move on. But I will definitely pass it on the time. I appreciate that. Okay. Let's move on to another. Thank you guys for all the great work you do. I just wanted to let you know that I just had an experience with dish network. They wanted me to upgrade my dish service to Hopper Plus. And the technician came and upgraded everything. And then soon as you tried to set up the accessibility, it didn't work. So I just wanted to let you know that I had a bad experience and the accessibility did not work. So he had to change it back to the old system. Thank you. Okay. This, I'm guessing, is a satellite network? I'm guessing dish. I'm not all that. I have people that work. No. How many help with this one? Other to say, it's so

18:52annoying that I've had this myself, right? When I was looking at getting a new TV provider. You ask, don't you? I need an accessible set top box or whatever it may be. And that front line salesperson has no idea. Absolutely. 99% of the time has no idea. So you say, well, it's essential. I can't use it without accessibility. So then maybe you'll get someone else further up the line and they'll say, yes, yes, it's accessible. And then you find out they're referring to it's got subtitles or it's got the large print or a dark mode or whatever it may be. I need it to talk to me. And you just never know for sure. I mean, do we know that that particular service is not accessible? Or did the engineer just not really understand how to turn on accessibility or what you needed? I mean, I would hope he did. But who knows? It takes me back to the conversation we have with Michael Babcock about his, was it Samsung? Was your dryer? Yes. I didn't even know

19:53that it had accessibility built in. It was just that his son picked up on the fact that there was accessibility option. The engineer who installed it had no idea. Yeah, you know, I mean, you got it worked up. They got it built up so that you could use it with the app and stuff, but didn't realize it actually had its own built-in accessibility, which is amazing. But you need to know what's there. Yeah, this is an ongoing issue. It really is. And that's a really important point, Sean, because how many times have you had an installer or someone from a company come out or you go to a store and you ask if it's accessible? They might say no. They might actually tell you, no, no, it doesn't do that. Yeah, but it does. True. Yeah. Most of the TVs now have some kind of accessibility built-in set top boxes. And of course, the apps that live on them can have issues as well. The one, the one issues, the one that I heard about in the States was, is it Comcasts? I want to see X infinity. I could be wrong. Maybe it's just infinity or something like that. Wasn't it? And I don't remember there was a story a while back. I don't know if it's still true.

20:53You can tell media listener, but I remember a time when you had to pay extra for like a premium X infinity or whatever it was called box. And that was the one that had the speech in it. So you had to pay essentially a premium to get accessibility, which is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Press the button, Stephen Scott. It is wrong. Yeah, it makes no sense. They're taxing you for needing the accessibility features that are only available on the top of the line package. That'd be like Apple saying you only get voice over in a Pro Max. On a pro. Yeah, absolutely. That's a perfect analogy. Steve, well done. Thank you. Thank you. Before, you know, I mean, not very well admit, but you know, how one wasn't bad. Yes, but I can't help you out in that specific, because I honestly don't know any of those networks or providers, but I don't know. Yeah, and I'm sure listeners around the world are listening to this and we'll be able to get involved and give us a bit of an indication as to what

21:54these are. Let's hear from another listeners on a similar topic of accessibility of media. Hi, there. Steve. This is Chimehart in Sherman Oaks, California, USA. I was led to your program by Top Tech Tidbits, and I have an issue that I cannot solve. Back on October 28th, CNN began a subscription service, and none of their apps, whether it be on the Google TV streamer, the Amazon Fire TV or the Roku, none of them are accessible. For example, on the Roku, it says launching CNN, and you get no more speech. You can kind of push buttons and hope that you've been on the right channel that you want to stream. I've written to CNN at several addresses, tried calling them. There's no switchboard anymore. You get either leave a voicemail or dial by name,

23:00and they never call you back and they never write you back. So I've done everything. I think that I can in these months, and it would be just nice if somehow, some way someone would get with a developer to make them fix these apps. It's just really something. I mean, the fact that I can authenticate through Direct TV means that I'm not paying money for this, which if I were, I would certainly want a rebate. But if anyone here has any ideas, please maybe we can figure something out. Thanks so much in advance. And by the way, I'm a Linux guy, and he supposedly has something about Linux last week, and I can't fly. I'm looking through the MP3, and I can't find it. All right. Thanks so much. Never said it. Don't you're talking about Linux. Whatever. Yeah. Right. That wraps up the Linux segment. Obviously, can't remember if we did. Okay. Yeah. We don't know if you're sorry. CNN, the various apps across various platforms, seemingly totally inaccessible. Again, it seems

24:06to be the theme so far. I mean, what can you do other than tell them about it and shout about it? I would argue that the best point of contact, if you, you're getting nowhere with direct contact with the company itself, they're not getting back to you, whatever. So social media can actually work sometimes. If you talk to the company director, and they see that it's a public comment, and other people may say, see it, you may get a response. But also let the organization, site loss organizations know like the ACB, like NFB, because they do have the weight behind them. And if they get enough people complaining, and they know it's an issue, then actually when they get in contact, maybe the company will listen. But again, incredibly frustrating. Issues. Issues everywhere. Terrible. Not a drop to drink. Can I tell you, I, for the first time in a long time last night, I watched a movie with my wife. We sat down last night, we watched a movie. It was a beautiful movie. Spoiled a little bit though by the audio description.

25:14And not in the way you might think. So not being there. Well, that's right. You know, first off, trying to find the movie with audio description was a challenge. I had to subscribe to some network called Lionsgate, whether that is, I had to sign up to that for a seven-day trial, must remember to cancel. And, you know, so I signed up to that because it was available on one provider, free of charge, I could watch it, but it didn't have AD. The other one did have AD, but I had to sign up to the trial, hoping that it was accurate. So, you know, signed up for the trial, started the movie. There is the AD. A very monotone male voice was the subscriber. And I swear to you, Sean, it got to the point where I had to turn the AD off because literally every single second that was silent in that movie, he filled with, I have to say, very, very flowery in our boss description. I mean, it was just too much by the end. I had a headache by the end of

26:17it. And the thing is, this was a movie. It was called Wild Rose. It was a movie about a Scottish girl from my hometown of Glasgow. She wanted to go off to Nashville to be a country music singer. So, that was the story. So, you can imagine there's lots of great country music in there. She's singing and all the rest of it. And this is another aspect of audio description that kind of irritates me sometimes. It can spoil a movie that's kind of focused on music. So, we watch for example, The Greatest Showman. And The Greatest Showman is all about the music. In fact, I've never seen a movie with so much music in it. It seems to be never stops. No one seems to stop singing all the way through it. And one thing's for sure, one one song stops, and the other one will start. But of course, they'll do the subscribers. Yap in a way all over it. This is me, song, the big finale song. You know, you're getting all the description. Now, you can say, well, of course, that's important. It is, but you're going to watch that movie twice. You've got to watch it once with the A.D. Understand what's going on. And once without, so you can actually

27:19enjoy the songs. Yeah. So, this was, and this was the example. And I have to say, this was the one occasion. I know that way. I was, all these people in my life who've said to me over the years given up on TV. Can't be bothered with it. Feels like crumbs just being flung at us, or it just just feels it's too much to deal with. I was very close to that last night. I was almost like, you know what? I'm going to find radio dramas and listen to that all day alone, because I just can't deal with this anymore. My head was bursting last night with the headache with after having to deal with all that. Well, you know what? It shows. It just shows the importance of getting the actual target audience involved in the screening of A.D. tracks. I mean, if it's using flowery language, like, like I'm asking, you know, chat GPT, did describe my garden or something, and the light is dappled through this trees and whatever. You know what? Just a lot of occasion. In one occasion, it said the character looked like she was fed up as if she was ready to give up on life. And I thought, it's not relevant to the story, though. Maybe. Yeah, but it was

28:22almost an of the expression or the mood of the character could be important. But what audio descriptions not meant to do is to drive a narrative. It's not, it's meant to just literally see what you see. Yeah. She looks depressed or slukes upset. That's all you need. You don't need to get their impression. I've made a joke before years ago. I think someone's listening to me clearly and took the wrong, took this as an idea. But, you know, I used to talk about the joke of having an opinionated audio describer. You know, someone who sits and says, yeah, you know, he did it. He did the murder. It was him. It was definitely him. Yeah, trying to figure out the twist in a movie. Yeah. He looks like the kind of guy that would commit a model. He looks like that kind of guy. You know, that kind of thing. And so it seems like they've kind of built that into these movies now. And I thought goodness me. But it was just to find that every single second of that movie, well, there was any moment of silence was filled with voice. And it was too much. It was just too much. And it spoiled it a little bit for me. Yeah. It's it's it looks. That's that's be honest. That's just AD done badly. I mean, well, arguably done well. You could see

29:28because it does it did describe everything. It was just what I don't think it is often seen here is how it actually, you know, in the moment or in that particular section of the movie, they focus in on that particular bit in that particular area. They focus in on, you know, making sure that each individual bit is perfect. But what they're not doing is sitting back and watching it. And thinking, if I am listening to this, does it sound like someone is literally firing a machine gun next to my head? Yeah. Does he get in the way of the enjoyment of the movie? AD doesn't I see I know there is a bit of a disagreement in the community about this. I don't think AD has to describe every single thing that's going on. It just needs to describe things that are relevant that I need to know to enjoy the movie to follow the story or whatever it may be. And that's enough for me. And when it strays above that, like when I'm watching soaps here in the UK, I don't watch soaps. Okay. But I do hear them when other family members are watching them. And I've heard it say that was, you know, character name talking. I don't think

30:31you need things like that. If you're watching it anyway, you know who that was. And they may say that a few times during the conversation. It's like I can tell the difference between voices. So at one point, the winds walking down. It says the women's walking down the path towards her home. She opens the gate. Now, audibly, she opened her gate. Yeah, that's her front door. You know, there's elements too. I thought, I don't know. Maybe I'm just thinking of this the wrong way, but it just felt there was too much information. Anyway, as I say, I just wasn't overly. I loved the movie, but it was spoiled a little bit. I have to be honest. So you're going to watch it about AD next. I think I might have to watch it again. Yeah, just just I can enjoy the music because the music, it was really good. It's a great movie. I think I don't know when it came out. Good for years ago now. And again, this is an example of a movie where, you know, I'd love to have watched it because Glasgow hometown, you know, it's that thing you want to see your town represented. And, you know, I had to wait until an AD version finally was made available. I had to wait for some time. We're used to that. I mean, that's hard.

31:31We shouldn't be used to. We shouldn't be used to. No one would print a book without any words, isn't it? And say, oh, well, you know, if you wait a couple of years, we'll eventually get the ink ready and you can get the get the words on the page. I've been trying to watch I swear that movie. And it's appeared on Netflix now. No AD, at least last time I checked. I'm hoping the thing with Netflix is that sometimes it will start off with no AD and then suddenly, oh, it's there, but you got to keep checking it. That seems ridiculous to me. The only place that had it available with audio description was Apple. If you bought it or rented it on Apple, you got AD. But again, it's like, I'm subscribed to Netflix. I'm subscribed to Amazon Prime, which is also on doesn't have AD. I mean, why? The track's there. Someone just tack it on or whatever you need to do. Yeah. Anyway, that's a old discussion that we've had many times about AD. That's the movie of John Davidson, the man with Tourette's, of course, most famously, he got himself into a bit of hot water at the the bafters in the UK. I'm sure you all know the

32:36story after after an utterance he made, but he has Tourette's. That's the deal. That's what happens with someone who's got Tourette's. They see things. They come out with things they take. The reaction you're already over that was unbelievable. He is there, right? Because people are applauding and acknowledging the impact that that movie has had in making people aware of the issues, the problems, the struggles of having Tourette's. And yet, because Tourette surfaced at the event for the awards ceremony, people were, oh, this is absolutely. Did you actually watch the movie? Do you understand there is no control here? This is a tick. Anyway, sorry, let's not get into that. Yes, I really want to see the movie. Listen to you on them. I've told you this before, the people who shout and preach the kindness thing and be kind to everyone. Be nice. They're going to be kind and oh, it's all be lovely to each other. Not the nicest people. Tell you that. Tell you that right now. Not the nicest people. The other ones who always tell you,

33:36you need to learn. You need to learn about your subjects. Well, you go to some learning then. This is my point. I've made this point so many times. I feel like I've repeated myself for 15 years. You know, when a blind person says to me, oh, those bloody sighted people, they don't know this. They don't know that. And I will say, what do you know about being deaf or living, you know, being in a wheelchair? What do you know about that? Bet you know nothing. Bet you didn't bother to learn about that. Bet you didn't go to figure out those issues. Well, you know what? You've got been around now. I've got a solution to that, Stephen Scott. That is forced disability for everyone. At the age of 21 for five years. Actually, I think that's more of a proclamation, isn't it? That's the second one. That's the second one. Tell you this by the way, Dean from New Zealand wants this played in three times a day. He wants to hear the fanfare three times a show or else you defuses to listen. He says three times. Come on. And and if you keep monster.

34:41Most hated sound effects. Thank you, Dean. That is now the Dean's signal. Three horns. Right, let's move on. Here's Caleb. Oh, hello, hello, hello, Stephen and Sean. Last season, I was invited by the Minnesota Vikings, our American football team to be to test their new partnership with the one court device at a live game and I could not be more impressed. I was able to track the play in real time as the ball moved up and down the field. My sighted partner was able to leave me in my seat and I didn't miss anything that was happening. It was an incredible experience and one that I am excited to repeat as soon as I possibly can. Such an exciting piece of technology. Caleb from Minnesota gave vikes hashtag friend of the shed. Oh, friend of the shed. I'm in a while. There's a throwback. Oh, thank you. Go vikes. I think that is so interesting. I'm really glad you got in touch to let us know how you got on with it because I still struggle to

35:42is it really that real time? Do you really feel involved because it just seems like so far fetched to me that you can follow along in real time. But yeah, apparently you can and your email just shows that as well. I'm so glad about it. Your eyes have been opened. That's right. Yes, I was able to put my milky dead eyes have been opened to the possibility. That was one. That was an audio describer said that the other day about someone watching a show and the AD voice said the woman is blind. She opens her lifeless milky eyes. Okay, lifeless milky eyes. I know people who believe that. I know some people don't like the term milky but lifeless. How dare you? So I feel a bit and life. Well, you, I mean, overall, no eyes. They won't give you that, right? But the rest of you apples for sure. You can't stop my life. They never hurt my eyes. They never sit still. What's going one way there is going the other way. It's fine. If there's if there's

36:45an opportunity to offend a blind person, it's going to be with the nodule description, right? Because especially when it comes to talking about blind people, I might just say I was that was a show from I think the 1990s and there were some other questionable language in there. But you know, that was not from the AD. Yeah, when was the AD added? I think we've got to ask the question. Was it was it you know, as there's a stroking the chin moan? Was it a different time shomps? Was it from a different time? Can you just be an over sensitive Steven Scott? Are you being what? I believe the term may be called woke about this. I mean, what's wrong with that? Yeah, you I'm very much awake. Like, I mean, is that a description of their physical description? Yes, that's it. I just I think there's better choices of description. I think lifeless, milky eyes. I don't know. Do you know what I felt? That felt like a sighted person's view on blindness right there. That was exactly what that was. A sighted person's view. Talking to another

37:48sighted person. Not too evil. But I don't know what they look like. I don't know what the eyes looked like, but they look lifeless and milky. I think if I said to someone coffee, you know, you can hear your eyes are lifeless. I think that might upset someone, don't you? Yeah, I think so. I think on focus or whatever, I think there would be a nicer term. Well, she's I mean, you could just say blind. What opened her blind eyes? I mean, I mean, I even refer to them. I don't understand. Why refer to them? It was vital and essential to the show. But the woman's blind. I mean, the audience who are blind listening to the audio description, better mind that's the audience are blind people. I think the majority, I'm just going to put out there. I think the majority of blind people get blindness. So you don't really have to explain it in the sense of, oh, by the way, you mean your eyes don't work. Do you know what? I kind of knew that. That is actually a very, very good point. Who's listening to the audio description? I didn't even think of that, but you're right.

38:51That's right. It's like a sighted person talking to a sighted person. That's how it was written. That's how it felt like it was written. But anyway, it's like that. We got Camille up next. USB cables nightmare. I got myself a multi-purpose cable. I got it for $15 Canadian. It has four different ends, two lightning, one USB C and one micro USB. Hit that helps. Happy tapping, Camille. Thanks, Camille. Yeah, I was talking a while ago about taking cables abroad and doing things. Cables are nightmare and the cables are terrible. And you know, I did see a thing on Facebook or something in one of those videos we were watching. And it was a retractable charger. So it's like a box that sits in your desk and it has these retractable USB cables that you can pull out and any ideas you just reel it back in. Like a garden hose. One of those is a retractable garden hose type thing. Yeah. And it just goes back in. So it's neat and tidy on your desk. But I couldn't find, let's just say a reputable name that behind it. And I don't know about you,

39:54but I quite like my house as it is. And I don't quite fancy it. Burning to the ground. So I decided not to buy it. Quite right. But I believe anchor do battery packs we have built in retractable USB C. They are available out there and anchor is quite a good thing to do to that. But cables aren't hard work, Stephen Scott. It's the easiest thing. And now we've gone USB C. I mean, that's not the issue. That's not the issue. The issue is that if you do the issue, I will tell you if you listen is if I put two cables in a drawer, nothing else in this drawer, right? If I put nothing in this drawer, I put two cables in that drawer. When I open that drawer the next morning, those cables will be wound together. Like me being told, I don't like braille wound up together. Then you untangle them untangle, detangle. What does that happen? I don't know. It just does. The little USB earbuds I've got, you know, the ones you get for the,

40:57you used to get them for free. You don't get them anymore. But those little USB earbuds that you get from Apple are all impossible. Impossible. I roll them up neatly. I put them away. Not house cable ties. No, I roll them up. I put them at a pouch. I've got a pouch for them. Every time I pull them out, they're always jammed together wound up. But how on does this happen? If they're in separate pouches, how do they get tangled together? That's right. That's right. That's right. They're my questions. No, there's multiple ones in a single pouch. In which case, of course, they're going to get tangled. Are you saying I'm a lion, Sean, please? Yes, yes, I am. My lifeless, milky eyes. We both went there. Okay. Do you know what? Actually, they are a great option. You can get these in multiple ways. You can get them with, say, a micro USB, a lightning port, a USB-A, or whatever. There's four ends on a cable, which sounds like the one there. But you can also get them where it's USB-C, and it comes with a series of adapters. I've got like drill bits almost with a selection of USB-C to micro USB or lightning.

42:03They're also very good. They're nice to have. I've got one tied around my battery, power bank, because whatever I've got, then I can charge using that. Because I'm so clever. I know what I'm doing. Thank you very much. Thank you. Well done. Well done. You're a hero, Sean, please. Yes. A hero. Thank you. Well done. Now, though, as I've played that, now I need to wait for them plus the finish so we can move on. I'm just going to bask in it. Okay. Enjoy it. Enjoy it. Thank you. Right. Yes, Dan. Hello, Steven and Sean. This is the resident trouble maker, Stan Warren LaTral. At least that's what I will call myself. But I think you'll find this funny if it wasn't so serious. I use this service called Script Talk to look at by meds of which there are many. In looking for a certain medicine that I have to take, I must explain that I'm only fluent in the one language, English.

43:05And my given name is Stanley, although I prefer Stan. Now, I was looking for a certain medicine and I've gone read my Script Talk label about the store has done. It starts reading in a foreign language that I don't know. And the only thing that it could tell me was, Stanley did 12 and I'm thinking, what the world is this as they have the pills, labels, I don't know how they do the Script Talk labeling. But I do know when it is done in a language other than English. So I have to go down to the store and have a little conversation. But I will be diplomatic and nice because there are such great people that I can't get angry

44:09with them. But I do want to let them know that they should be careful in doing this. But I thought you guys, I got a laugh out of it. I mean, I chose not to be angry that doesn't accomplish anything other than raising your blood pressure tomorrow. We're taking medicines to counter that problem. What do you think, y'all? Anyway, have a good day and have a fantastic weekend. Take care. And I hope you enjoyed this little rant. Absort. Take care. I'm with you on this then. Yeah, Micah rant, yeah. Well, you know what? It's so funny because the amount of times I've gone into pickup prescription and you got to wait around because we need to print the labels out. It's like, you know, I can't read those labels and that's where a service like Script Talk comes into it, which is a, it's a system that they use at the pharmacy to make the labels speak to you.

45:10You use an app or a piece of hardware. I don't know if the hardware still exists, to be honest. But it used to be you could use an app on your phone to scan almost like an F.C. the label of the prescription. And it would be spoken to you, hopefully in the language of your choice. But I find that sometimes I'm going to say my pharmacist just throws tablets in there. And oh, yeah, actually, that's the wrong one or he may give me tablets that feel different. So the ones I'm used to. And I say, oh, yeah, yeah, am I, are you sure these like usually they're round. Now these are just like tic tacs. Are you sure these are the right tablets? Yeah, they just got a different name, but they don't seem to realize how important what we go off to actually identify medication. It's incredibly important. You see, we are lucky to some degree here in the UK that our medicines are brailed in the UK. So we do get not all of them. I'll admit, you can go into pharmacy and certain pharmacies are better than others, but you can go in and you will

46:12find a lot of the off the shelf stuff, especially one brand. I mean, if I think about boots in the UK, a lot of their, I thought their own brand stuff is brailed. If you were to buy something like a bottle of gavascar or a pep to Bismol, that would be brailed. Now I don't know if that's the case everywhere, but it certainly is the case in the UK. So that's good paracetamol or I know it's different names in different parts of the world, but paracetamol or ibuprofen or those kind of things. Those would be brailed. Most of the medications are, but why not use these names in the world? That's right. Although it's very handy for learning how those were to spell. I had no idea how to spell paracetamol before I started using that. But how many times do you pit up your medication and find the label all over the brail? Well, this is the issue. So when you get prescribed medication, you know, in my case, I'm buying a box of medications that doesn't have those labels on it, but if it's prescribed, it does, and that's exact through the problem. They put the label on top of the brail. And you just sit there going

47:15really because, you know, I'm dealing with my mum's medication now. And so her prescribed medications, that is exactly the problem. I'm getting these labels. So I've had to speak to the pharmacist and say, look, I really appreciate you doing what you're doing. And like you stand, you know, you don't want to be annoyed at these people because they're doing a great job. But I need you to think about this a little bit because I need that brail. That's how I read this. And sometimes they'll say, well, you know, the labels too big or, you know, whatever. And you say, yeah, but I don't care. I got to figure out how we run this. I'll just leave the label off or just cut the label and half or do something. I need the brail bit. Yeah, absolutely. It's like, well, I've got to put the printed text on. I don't know. It's that low. I'm assuming, but it's like, well, it does nothing for me. Anyway, yeah, I mean, it does. I mean, so the important thing to realize is that the label has the instructions on the uses of the medication. So, you know, one to be taken twice a day, that kind of thing. So that that's not on the brail. The brail only really tells you the name of

48:16the medication and the strength of medication. That's often all you can get because, of course, there's brail, right? That's a small box. And often that label will be wrapped around us because there's not enough surface area on a package. And it's just wrapped around. So it's like, is it even possible to read it? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I mean, seeing AI does the job for that for me, to be honest, I mean, it's not obviously as good as something that's script talk is going to be, it's going to give you defined information. I am hesitant to use AI tools. I mean, I know I'm talking about seeing AI, but that's different. I'm using OCR instant text, that kind of thing. Yes. But, you know, I wouldn't necessarily use a Gemini or a chat GPT because I'm concerned about the information, the names, the addresses, things like that. They would be on there. I know a lot of the information is anonymized, but even so, I'd probably rather I wasn't giving it all that information because it's not the thing that I think that people don't think about with AI is, yeah, okay, the information goes to this database, right, which is essentially fueling AI. But that data is anonymized. The issue for me isn't about that so much. The issue for me is

49:18that's building up a picture of me as an individual in my account. So on chat GPT is part of my memory, you know, I'll say something one day to chat GPT and then like three weeks later, I'll say, well, based on what you told me before, remember you would need this. I mean, I told it, for example, my wife was looking for something in the house. She wanted to be a specific size. It was fitting into a particular part of the house. It had to fit a certain size. But whatever reason I had uploaded something that had information about the measurements of this room, like weeks before, because I was looking for something else. And it said, remember, it won't fit into that space because your space size is only this. And I thought, geez, this remembers more than I do. It's exactly the great point about it though, right? Yeah, it's important. It's good. If it makes it better, yeah. But who holds that data? That's the question. I'm not holding that data myself. It's not in my house. That data is on an opening eye cloud somewhere. So, yeah, anyway, let's move on. Let's move on to talking about metaglasses and access to them in

50:22India. Hello, Stephen, Sean and everyone. I am Sard from Pakistan. Meta has launched a different range of glasses, including ones with displays and even an SDK, which seems very cool, by the way. But do you know, we haven't even received the older Meta AI functions in the glasses yet. And I can tell you, the reason is not the same as Europe, because Pakistan is an under-regulated country. There are no proper rules and legislation for technology yet. Even law and order are generally quite disturbed here. Okay, the market might be smaller here due to poverty, but there are individuals and organizations that could purchase or have already purchased them. I know people who have these glasses, and I think I could purchase them too. So, I just wanted to ask, do consumers only exist in Western regions? I love your show, guys. I've been watching on YouTube for about a year, I think. Bye-bye, Sard from Pakistan. Thank you, Sard, appreciate it. And listen, I'm with you on this. I've said this for many, many times. We've got to get out of this bubble that the only people who are available to buy products, able to buy products, able to use

51:24these products are in Western nations. We've got to get out of that bubble. And it's interesting you talk about India, because my understanding, at least in the numbers I've been told, and Sard, you've welcomed, come back and correct me on this. But what I was told is that there are around 60 million people in India living with a visual impairment, 15 million of whom are blind. So, that's a massive market. That's huge. I mean, that's that's almost the size of the population of the United Kingdom. Yeah. Just, you know, if all the blind people in India wanted to live in one place, they could live here. Yeah. And anyone's to take names on who I'd like to get rid of this country. I'll happily start a list. You can welcome over here. What's the issue, though? What is the problem? The issue, isn't it? No, no, no. So, aren't the glasses actually available to buy? Because Sard did say that they, you know, he knows people that do have them. Are they, you know, imported them in from somewhere else? Or are they actually available to purchase in

52:29India? Or is the problem here? The lack, you didn't be specific. But, you know, what AI features are missing? Are we talking live AI like here in the UK? I think that's his point, isn't it? These features are perhaps not available. Sard, come back and tell us, give us more information. As you're saying, if this is essentially an under regulated market, then it's almost like saying, yeah, anything good? We're under, yeah, if everything goes, if law and order doesn't question, then can't we just get live AI at least? Yeah. So, yeah, I get your point. I do take your points, Sard, I appreciate it. Thank you for that. And thank you for listening. Really appreciate it. And watching I should say on YouTube, one final comment that before we go, yeah, yeah, that there, yeah, we're still on it, you know, we're still there. Hello, people still listening. I'm waving audio description. Oh, thank you. There's too much to verbose. Right, let's get one final comment from Renee. Good morning, guys. This is Renee from Kentucky. I very much enjoy your shows. And Stephen, your new screw gun drill is great to be hanging drywall. Keep that in mind.

53:37Also, I would like to make a request. Sean, I think you need to get back into doing your podcast, Sean and the shed. You had a very good podcast instructional podcast. And the first one I would start with would be the scribit.io. Michael had that on week to go Saturday. And he did a great job on showing how it worked. But he did not show how you go about downloading it and the cost of it and things like that. I know that if a person is well educated in that stuff, it might be simple, but for us older people would say that, you know, not that much into computers. But I would love

54:41to have that on my computer. So keep that in mind, Sean. And I love your shows. Keep up the great work. Bye bye. Thanks, Renee. Sean, over to you. Final word. Okay. Thank you. No, funnily enough, I am actually, we've been talking about this. I'm kind of, I want to do something on the NVDA add-on. So I'm looking at getting back into it, trying to figure out how to do it. I don't know. There just seems to be so many resources out there now. Do you really need another one in me? But I am looking into it. I urge you to go to a library and then ask, you know, or go to an aspiring author and then say, ah, I was in that library the other day. There's too many books in there. I don't really need to write that book. I think the answer would be yes. It depends on the author is what the answer I would give you. Well, I think absolutely is that depends on the author and someone who is very gifted at putting together these instructional demonstrations in a fun way, Sean Priest, which is how we came to meet in the first case.

55:45Okay, right. I think you did it this stuff. You got to do it. So there you go. Thank you. Rene has spoken. I also love that you've got your first task as well. That's brilliant. I love that. Listen, that is it from us today. Thank you as always. We'll be back into your feedback tomorrow and of course all the news as we get it here on Double Tap. Thank you, Sean. Thank you. Bye-bye. Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called chat concierge and it's simplifying car shopping using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks. It doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule

56:48a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trading value, advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One.