Expert Testimonies | BONUS

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Hey, it's Stephanie.

In this bonus episode, I wanted to share some parts of the June 10th trial we didn't

get to an episode seven.

Ultimately, you know how this trial ends.

Judge Mata ruled in Clayton's favor and referred the matter to the Maricopa County

Attorney's Office for review of Laura Owens' actions.

This family court trial was jam-packed because there was a two-hour time limit.

So in this bonus episode, I wanted to go back to the expert's testimonies.

Laura Owens' team brought in Dr. Michael Medchill, a retired OB-GYN, who said he had delivered

over 20,000 babies.

Before the trial, Dr. Medchill reviewed medical records provided by David Jingress and reached

a notable conclusion.

Dr. Medchill, based on your review of Laura's medical records that you've identified in

your report, did you form any opinions at all regarding whether or not she was pregnant

in 2023 at any time?

Absolutely.

I believe she was pregnant with over 99 percent probability.

But the validity of the medical records Dr. Medchill reviewed were a point of contention.

You understand, Laura has admitted to faking medical records in this case.

Yes.

This became a central point of dispute during cross-examination, especially because Laura

had already admitted under oath, both at her deposition and again on June 10th, to

doctoring medical records.

But there was something even more stunning about Dr. Medchill's testimony, a moment that

became infamous in coverage of the case.

Here's David Jingress during the trial.

Mr. Eckert has said that he doesn't believe that a pregnancy was possible here because

there was no intercourse.

Do you have an opinion about that?

Regarding general, not regarding him or her, but in general.

Well, it's said that men are like basketball players.

They dribble before they shoot.

They also dribble afterwards.

And if you are rubbing genitalia together, it is possible to get pregnant.

After this moment that later became etched into the lore of this trial, Jingress asked

Dr. Medchill to address the elephant in the room head-on, and he doubled down.

How much weight would you assign to the fact that Mr. Eckert denied sexual intercourse?

Is that significant to the question of whether she was pregnant or is it a minor point?

It has nothing to do with whether she was pregnant.

This testimony gave me pause.

I always understood penetrative sex to be a near-universal precursor to conception.

So I called my own expert.

My name is Dr. Marissa Weiss, I'm a board-certified OBGYN.

I currently am practicing in the space of infertility, which I took as a specialty fellowship

in.

Dr. Weiss specializes in infertility, which means she works with the science of

conception every day.

Probably the most common comment I get from my patients, again, who are patients who

are actively trying to conceive, is how surprised people are at the likelihood of conception

on any given month.

When we are given sex at middle school, we're led to believe that if you have untrubbed

intercourse, there's basically a hundred percent chance you're getting pregnant.

But in reality, even with intentional well-timed intercourse around the time of ovulation, your

odds of pregnancy on any given month are 20 percent.

Contrary to kind of what we're told in middle school and high school, on any given month,

it's more likely that you won't get pregnant.

Importantly, what Dr. Weiss is talking about here is vaginal intercourse, not oral sex.

And there is a huge caveat that penetrative sex also has to occur at the time of ovulation,

which means there's a small window on any given month that a person can conceive.

Another part of trial that was stuck in my head was the detail about Laura running to

the bathroom after the blowjob.

Woodenick told me he always found it to be a suspicious detail in the chain of events.

Woodenick said he never ruled out a kind of spit maneuver.

But I wondered if it was even possible for someone to impregnate themselves this way.

So I asked Dr. Weiss if sperm could even survive that long.

Spermotility decreases within minutes in the saliva, and most sperm are kind of immobilized

or dead within 15 to 30 minutes.

So in some extent, it kind of depends on how long is, you know, elapsing between the

ejaculation and then the collection.

And theory, if you did it within seconds or minutes even, I guess there's a slight

chance.

But again, then you also run into all the other things, has to be around the time of ovulation

and everything else.

So it's kind of a Swiss cheese mod.

A lot of things have to line up in order for it to happen.

But theoretically, if within a couple minutes of ejaculation into someone's mouth, they

were to collect the sperm and put it in the vagina either, you know, via some kind of vaginal

insemination or elsewise, and they happen to be around the time of ovulation.

There's still a small chance of pregnancy.

But again, the odds are, I would say, probably less than 1%.

So it seems unlikely that a spit maneuver would have resulted in impregnancy at all.

But hang on for a second.

She came over to your house.

She gave you oral sex twice.

The next day you told her you weren't interested in her.

That's correct.

I rejected her, yes.

And then four days later, what happened?

Four days later.

She started making claims that she could possibly be pregnant.

And then 11 days after they hooked up, Laura claimed she'd taken a positive pregnancy test.

She was taking one of those at-home tests where you pee on the stick.

Laura's was positive.

And as we know, Laura later went to an urgent care and had another test, which confirmed

she had an elevated HCG level.

I asked Dr. Weiss to explain more about how HCG works and why it's often used as an early

pregnancy test.

HCG levels rise exponentially in early pregnancy.

And then generally, half every 48 hours, once a pregnancy has ended.

So are your impregnancy tests detects the pregnancy hormone, which is HCG?

Depending on what type of test you have, there's somewhat of a range of detection.

The early response tests can detect at a lower level of HCG, which lets you detect

kind of earlier in pregnancy or put another way sooner after ovulation.

But they're detecting HCG in the urine.

So the HCG level has to achieve a certain amount in the bloodstream before reaching the

urine.

If you're testing with a urine pregnancy test, for most people, it's kind of most reliable

within 12 to 14 days after ovulation, obviously after a misperiod, which is generally 14 days

plus after ovulation is even more accurate.

Dr. Weiss explained that HCG is a hormone you can inject.

Even if someone did inject it, they could test positive for pregnancy on a urine test.

Even if they weren't pregnant.

There's medications specifically that we use in fertility treatment in which we give patients

synthetic HCG.

So if they were to take that injection as prescribed by their fertility doctor and then do a urine

pregnancy test, it would come back positive.

Dr. Weiss sometimes sees false positives with her patients who take at-home tests.

Some other medications that have been known to raise HCG levels can produce a false positive.

And then there are anomalies.

Ways in at-home tests can fail.

There's something called evaporation lines, which if you kind of, the instructions on

a urine pregnancy test tell you exactly how long to wait before interpreting the result.

If you wait longer than that period of time, you can get something called an evaporation

line, which is a faint line that can oftentimes fool people out, you know, look initially on

the battered counter.

See it's negative and then leave it there and then come back and be falsely either positively

or negatively.

Dr. Weiss stressed that conception is more difficult than we were led to believe in high school

sex set.

And that the most reliable way to test for pregnancy is having an ultrasound in person

with the doctor.

You'd ask me the hot tub question.

I was ready for that one.

Thank you so much for listening.

Stay tuned for new episodes and bonus content on the Love Trapped Feed.

On paper, the three hosts of the Nick Dickenpole show are geniuses.

We can explain how AI works, data centers, but there are certain things that we don't necessarily

understand.

A better version of play stupid games when stupid prizes, which by the way wasn't Taylor

Swift who said that for the first time.

I actually thought it was.

I got that wrong.

But hey, no one's perfect.

We're pretty close though.

Listen to the Nick Dickenpole show on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you

get your podcasts.

Hey there folks, Amy Robock and TJ Holmes here.

And we know there is a lot of news coming at you these days from the war with the runs

of the ongoing Epstein fallout government shutdowns, high profile trials.

And what the hell is that Blake Lively thing about anyway?

We are on it every day, all day.

Follow us, Amy and TJ for news updates throughout the day.

Listen to Amy and TJ on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.

I'm Anna Navarro and on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro.

I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around

the world.

Because I know deep down inside right now, we are all cursing and asking what the bleep

is going on.

Every week I'm breaking down the biggest issues happening in our communities and around

the world.

I'm talking to people like Julie Kay Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein

in 2018.

They just this department through we counted four presidential administrations failed these

victims.

Listen to Bleep with Anna Navarro on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you

get your podcasts.

This is an iHeart Podcast, Guaranteed Human.