Episode 64 - Review of Shadowhunt

0:30Hello operatives, welcome to season 4, episode 3 of What's Put A Kill Team, the podcast about narrative play in Warhammer 40K Kill Team. I'm Jason. I'm Sean. And I'm Joff. And we want to talk to you about building stories around the gameplay of this great dark terrible universe. In this episode, we'll review Shadow Hunt from a narrative perspective, but first up, it's Hobby Corner. What's everyone else been working on? Jason. Yes. Is it a list as long as normal? Well, Barry, I don't feel like I'm doing that much hobby, but I've had some bits. Anyway, finished, finished the Screamer Killer in the, my version of high-fleet Riksharsha, I've, I've spent a Riksharsha. What a beast. I absolutely, I'm so glad I did this. It's a real monster. It's a real monster. So glad you enabled me to get this one of my favourite models of all time. It just looks absolutely cracking. Yeah. And I think we talked ages ago that with Tyranny, it's once you've got kind of a formula

1:32worked out. It's actually a pre-straight forward paint job, actually, so yeah, it's a bit paint by numbers, isn't it? Because of all the Kightin. Yeah. But, you know, it's great. I think it looks good, hopefully our listeners may have seen it on the Insta's and in our discord. I also have finished the XV26 Stealth Suit team in, I haven't got a back up. This is about the first team I've ever done. I don't, I haven't already worked out a backstory for, or not much of one. I've made a kind of, like I've given the, the leader a name, I shall give all of them a name, but I haven't got a rich backstory partly because I, I don't know, I kind of not sure. Yeah. Anyway, I'm very pleased with the paint job. Let's go with that. Towelook, excellent, I think, and these models do look good. So yeah, super, super happy. Now I've played against them a couple of times, I'll come up with one in our games.

2:32I'm not entirely sure I'm going to enjoy playing them that much. They seem not very to cerebral. They're too passive. I think if you're going to win with the Stealth Suites, you've got to sort of not charge in. But, you know, sure, and you won't understand what not charging in is, but imagine, you've still got some operatives left in turn four. Imagine that I've been doing some more work on the bomb trolley. They much talked about bomb trolley. I've now got red bombs because red bombs go boom bigger. How about that? That's true. And a black kind of thing and Josh made me a little grot smoking a cigar, which would be perfect to sit on the pile of bombs, I think. So thank you, Josh, for that. No problem. Yeah, so I'm just, everything's got a base coat, but I just need to make it look super nice. I've started converting the Void Boys troop team over to the Murder Wings.

3:37I bought Senor Del Vulture, a 3D printed model with sort of wings with engines in the boots. Amazing. Although, if you ever asked to get into a tight space, it just isn't going to happen. Well, they're not allowed under vantage. So you're fine. Okay. Great. That's great. So, yeah. I really pleased with that model. He's a tiny bit unbalanced. He's on a 40, maybe, and it's still, and it's still, he's still, his wings are so big and he's sort of leaning back that he's a bit unbalanced. So I might have to wait the front of the base or something, but it's going to look phenomenal. I haven't, what I haven't done yet, and this is, this would be one for next time. I've got to put, I mean, the freezer, I've got to put my old guys in the freezer, could break them super good. Yeah. I'm a bit, and I've got to warn my partner to be careful going in the freezer, because there's going to be some models in there. So yeah, that's, that's a new territory for me, freezing models.

4:40Yeah. And then I think I mentioned, did I mention the last show I've bought a shadow sword tank you had, or you were in the process of doing so. Right. Well, I now have taken possession of a super heavy shadow sword tank. So for, there's quite a myriad of the big tanks. I think Bainblade is the most famous one, but the shadow sword is the one, it doesn't have a movable turret. It has a volcano cannon specifically designed to delete titans. Right. So the body itself has to turn for it to aim. That's right. It's technically, I think, in the armoured fighting vehicle, nomenclature and assault gun. But it is whopping, and it does have four turrets with less cannons on them, and heavy bolter, twin heavy bolters. So it's not, it's not without some secondary armament. Obviously, this is too crazy for the game of kill team except I've, I've already made

5:41a mission for it, and it is going to be one of the killer zones in the great war event that I'll be doing in October. So if any of this is intriguing in any way, you'll be seeing it. Got, I've got big plans, but I haven't started painting it yet, but I'm going to get some ossified to give it a light tan, and it's going to help me do a desert camo. So it's all happening. How about you Sean? I have had a marathon hobby session this, certainly this last week just gone. The guys on the call can see in the background, all of my gorgeous MDF terrain from TT combat. There's currently in this disassembled state, just, just for our listeners, think Baradur out of, out of Lord of the Rings, but sci-fi sci-fi version of Baradur is like a tall tower with lots of sub-towers, cool, they're having so, so I'm in, I'm in full swing getting ready

6:41for a start. He's a salt. So I've got this gorgeous, gorgeous set of MDF terrain from TT combat that Josh and I had the joy of playing on, we'll get to that later. And what it does mean is I spent 24 hours with PVA glue sticking it all together. And now my whole house just kind of has a faint smell of charcoal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for all those laser cut edges, everything's, everything's got that like pine forest on fire smell. It's a, you're a smokehouse. Yeah, it's quite a crowd who's talking about Sean's well being that those one can say a few hours. 24 hours. Yes. I did, I did do, I think I did 14 hours on the first day and then broke up the rest well, because I needed it for us to play on. So I had, I was like, I've got to go, I've got to go, I think I was doing it till two in the morning one night. So I've been doing terrain. I've been doing digital terrain as I've been designing us up some bespoke boards for a start.

7:42He's a salt as well. I'm talking to a couple of 3D printers to get them all printed off and then sent off to Josh Jason and myself to get them hobbyed up. And I've been finally putting some paint on my murder wing as well. Nice. That bit's kind of fallen by the way, so because I was like, oh, yeah, I'll paint my murder wing. And I was like, I've got all this terrain I need to sort out. That takes priority. So I'm going to be chipping away at that. Don't chip away at it. Well, yeah, good weathering. And Josh, what about yourself? I have been, I don't know, I don't want to use the word chipping away now. I've been working away at my white scar murder wing. I've been spending a week to try to find the right speakers or speaker looking things for the shrieker, because I don't imagine the white scars do a lot of shrieking, but I imagine there's quite a lot of ominous, have throat singing and war cries and stuff. So in the end, I set it on using the boosters from the back of one of the horror terracy

8:43ad mech for both things. And I think they look really good. So I just got to glue some like cables or something to them to make them look like they not just a load of half-trafficking discs, half-trafficking and stuff like this goes back a little like a school. Can't they be wireless speakers? No. 40K has lost the art of wireless, I'm afraid, everything is very wired in. And honestly, how well does Bluetooth work even now? I don't see how it would. I can't, I can't chaos fox somebody, because my speakers would link to my Bluetooth. I'm trying to pair it. Yeah. I like, burdu du. Okay. That's underarm. Of course, I've been rummaging through my box-o-bit in the hope of, keep actually up with some more starties for a start-heat assault, because I played, well, I've had two games with Sean and I'm now fully hooked. Yes. So all the kids are talking about. Talking of games? What games do you play, Joe? What do you... I've been playing a start-heat assault, which I think is...

9:48It's a really fun game mode, but I'm probably not qualified to talk about really as much as Sean is. You qualified. You played it. You qualified. That's true. But I'll let Sean talk about it, because it is his baby, but I have joined a little tournament at the Guilford Games Club, where I and Sean play, and my first game was against the Rathamans with my age to death, and then he went against Tom, didn't you? At a lovely Tom. And I just got... I don't know. It's been a long day. I just got a bit annoyed at playing against the Rathamans, because it's like, oh, OK, I can't do anything. You know what I'm saying? Oh, look, they are there. Oh, they've done so many. Oh, OK. That guy's been in. And then I've foolishly played Plant Banner, which was just a terrible decision, but I didn't really feel like I had a good one. And I thought, at least it might be entertaining if I rather know, grab my banner and run on the ground with it. At that point, I didn't find it entertaining as I thought it would. This one. You know, Ravanans are frustrating to play against, because they're these gorgeous, you

10:51know, 20-woon models that are kind of show pieces on the board, and they spend half their time off to the side. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Killed team supposed to be fun, right? Yeah. Well, I think I'm looking at the game as like starting with my vegetables, and I've got like the rest of the meal to get through. There you go. You've gone through the mandatory vegetable. Is that what they were the Ravanans thought? Space Marines, crunchy on the outside, chewy on the inside. Exactly. Gross potatoes. Sean, me. Yeah. As Josh said, we played a started assault saturday, Josh came over mind late afternoon, and we managed to squeeze in two playthroughs of the mission, did some play test tweaking in between the two, because the first one, we didn't last very long at all, and all three of us were in capacity to demo them, but then we're like, how am I going to revive anyone from here? So it was a mission failure. Second time round, much, much better, a bit smoother on the playthrough, or the MPOs

11:54and everything. It was an unrelenting wave of all my world-eater cultists trying to swamp the three of our Marines down. We had really good fun. I kind of ended up letting Josh control all three Marines, and I was kind of just DMing the bad guys and kind of changing the mission on the fly to just make it as fun as possible. Yeah. You smashed it, because it was super fun. It was really enjoyable. It was really good to play. So for anyone, I don't know how much we talked about it before, but a start is assault is like, space Marine 2, but, you know, analog, and so it was really enjoyable to play the different classes, I think, in the second game, where we got more hands on experience with them, because we lived for a long time. We had the bullwalk, the sniper, and the hangout road. Yeah. And that was brilliant. And just outline what mission you were attempting to do. So we, because I only had built up half of the MDF terrain, so we kind of did a condensed version of my, what have I called it, because I've changed the name of the mission.

12:58We're playing through my demolitions mission, so it's a three-star tease start. You've been dropped in that you're by your course Blackstar at the top of this spire. We've got to get down to the structural support of this Habblock, because some insidious cult has taken root. You've got a plant email to charges, and then you've got to get back up the tower where the Corvus Blackstar is going to whisk you away for extraction. Philly attacked right now. I'm usually the, the Gene Steeler cult guy, and I've got some of these, you know, invaders coming around demolishing my house. This is a way to tell you how every single Gene Steeler cult story ends. But at the holiday, right, it's a freedom, freedom is how it ends, ascension day, everyone have cake, freedom from life. Right, cool. I love the tower idea. That sounds really thematic. Yeah, and I thought the scenery was pretty massive, like, when we were playing it, and then Sean was like, oh, it's going to get twice as tall. It's going to get twice as tall, a little bit wider, and then you've got to paint it

13:59up. Well done, Josh. Yeah. Brilliant. I think it'll be amazing when it's, um, but it's all done and all together. And if I don't totally ruin it with painting, I think it'll look amazing, and it'll be really fun to play. Well, you've said that. My wife has actually said that she won't forgive me if we do paint it up because she really loves how the MDF kind of looks with it. It's like laser cut details and everything. And she, I was trying to convince her like, no, I promise it'll look good. It'll look good. And she's like, she didn't trust me. I'm shaking my head for everyone. It's an audio platform. I'm shaking my head. It doesn't trust me that it still will look good painted. So no pressure, Josh, no pressure, but you've got Sean's marriage on the line here. I'll take the blank one. Other games wise, I've also had my first league game of our doubles tournament at the, at the Guild for Games Club, and I went into Dave's plague marines and I had an equally frustrating game where I felt like a wave of sand smashing against a wall of stone.

15:00If you know contagion, contagion is where it just makes you hit as if you're injured and melling all the time. Yep. And I really like hitting on threes as marines and hitting on fours. How does anyone get anything done and my poor, my poor, you bring a lot of people. That's what happens. Right. Well, I've got five, no six crap. And then my depredator hits on fours anyways. So him hitting on fives, I was like, I mean, you're either dead or I am, and the answer was I am nearly every single time. I was down to three marines by the end of turn two. Okay. I charged them in. They didn't die. So I learned that you had to shoot them, but my doing isn't really built for shooting. They've just got some little basic bolt pistols and everything. I had a really cool play lined up because I'm with one of their five flight poise. You can add three inches to someone's move when they boost. So like you could dash and move and do a 12 inch move, which is crazy.

16:04You're just not allowed to fight or shoot it afterwards. But that's fine because my melty gunna flung him 12 inches forward to a breach point. His last APL breach the point, hoping that I would stun the two marines that David like cuddled up behind because they were going to breach and go through next turn. I managed to win initiative. It was a gamble. And then I was like, oh, yeah, time to Melter. So so rolling for stuns, no more stuns. So my punishing didn't go off on my strategy poise. And then my melty gun managed to roll, no, my melty gun didn't roll anything because we were on opposite sides of the wall and then the wall didn't exist. We were actually in control range. So I couldn't shoot with my melty gun because we were in combat and then I've just got little fists up against his icon bearer's plague knife. I managed to do, my doing's got a dishonorable thing where like instead of hitting with a critical die, they can instead like just push you in the face and then fall back for

17:06three inches. So I had to end up doing that. Could you have said that when I'm guard and then from the wall, but not within an inch of then when the wall disappeared or was it that would have been the exact that would have been the correct placement. However, I hadn't thought about it. I was like smash the wall, go bugger. You got a lot of you, kill you new toys and you want to get on and start getting stuff with them. Exactly, exactly. On the other side of the map, I had senile dead chaos, the shrieker and my champion. They I was thought I was being so sneaky like they'd all boosted up hidden behind barricades getting ready to go through some doors and start scoring me flank. No, they were all within two inches of each other. Mr Bombadier throws a little black grenade in, starts poisoning everyone, brings everyone health down quite a lot. And then the flail guy comes in and just double taps his flail, champions dead. Senile del chaos is on four wounds. The shriekers on three wounds, they're all poisoned says when they activate, they all

18:08go down by one. And I'm just, I'm just they're like sweating like like they haven't done anything and everyone's dead. I just had to say at this point to anyone else who's played against murder wing and been absolutely devastated. I think they're probably all playing tiny violence at you right now or something. Yeah. Well, I'm actually, it's same as death watch. I don't think there was overpowered as everyone thinks, especially if you're not top tables tournament players. If you're a middle of the road guy or like me, a bottom of the road to guy, you're the top of our roads. John. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Thanks. Thanks guys. I think they're fine. They're very glass canony and going into playgrounds took the cannon out of it. So I was just glass. Right. When we, when we come, when we come to the review, review section, I've got, I've got some thoughts on this will return to it. So that was me. I've done my rant. Jason. How's your games been? Awesome.

19:09Pretty, pretty awesome. Anyway, right. So first up, I played the third game in the Conor, Conorck Rising campaign. I played against the lovely, lovely Adam with his hand of the Archon, which is the last time I played him. He's like highlighted all the edges to their arm and they look sort of super gorgeous. Nice. Yeah. Bloodmongers or, or goldmongers, but my, my, my bloodletters do all right against elves. They hit they do four fives and so two hits and it's good night, Charlie, and he can bring all the darklances he likes, but he can't do any more than eight wounds on a, on a goldmonger at once. Of course. So it looked, I think by turn two or something, it was looking all over for the hand of the Archon. Now, I want to say I live by what I tell other people to do in events. So if you come to one of our narrative events, one of the things that we say is in a lot of games, there'll be a time when you can do the safe boring thing or the risky, exciting thing

20:11and you should do the risky, exciting thing. Well, this is what we tell people who come to our events and it was turned for one of my guys is on a teleporter at the other end of the, we're on two world at the other end of the teleporter was one of his gunners. I could have stayed safe, not done anything and won the game. However, that's not how we roll to do the boring rubbish thing. So I charged and it should have been easy, right? I've got a goldmonger. He's got a gunner who doesn't have a close combat weapon. No, totally flood my dice. I was out re-rolls. I think I just, I couldn't if he killed me or I just failed to kill him. Anyway, what it meant was he ended in a draw and yeah, draw instead of a win. But I will stand by that decision. It was fun. It was, I've been wanting to use the teleporter and then on the two world in an exciting way, which I'd failed to do the other times. But actually, the teleporter never goes where it's that interesting, usually.

21:14Exactly like that. It's always on the edge and it goes to the other edge and you're like, well, I want to be in the middle. If it went to an objective or something, it'd be different. But we'll talk, we'll talk about more exciting teleporter in a minute. Anyway, that was good. So I ended up in the campaign with one win, one draw and one loss. So that's, you know, as much as I could imagine doing. Then I managed to get a game with Friend of the Show, almost a regional Friend of the Show, Sal, great to catch up with him again. I brought Exaction Squad, seeing as they had a little Boosty recently and he brought his beautifully painted XV26 stealth suits and we had to go on the upstairs downstairs descent maps. So I've had to go on that. So there's a couple of things. Firstly, it is very odd and the idea that you've got to bring two sets of terrains, play one game, I feel is going to be, so unless you've got the terrain wherever you are, I don't know, it just means you've got to bring two sets of terrain with you, but it was definitely

22:15really interesting. And one of the features of this one was the teleporter in the tomb world teleported you on top of a Vantage, a Valkus Vantage in the upstairs version. I've got to give credit to Sal. He did the great move of teleporting his fusion blaster guy onto this Vantage and absolutely turned my, I forgot what the Exaction Squad leader's called now, proctor, something, something. He turned him into molten slag, so that was a good move. However, it didn't, you know, it didn't all go sales way, but the Exaction Squad have got some moves against stealth suits because they can arrest people, quote unquote, with the manacles, they can stop them falling back and I managed to stop them falling back a few times and the dog can stop people falling back. So, you know, so when you actually close with them and then close combat, you can actually

23:17keep them there or you have a chance to, and the sweetest move is, I think, self thought you could get an easy kill. I had a, the, the scoped pistol guy on guard and self thought you could just get an easy kill on this person. There's no way I'd kill him in one go except the scoped pistol is lethal five up. I rolled one six and three fives, four, four crits, yeah, one shot him through the eyeball. That was quite nice. The first time I think I can say, you know, certainly in a long time, I've maxed the crit up. I killed every single one of the stealth suits. Wow. Sal still won. Oh, yeah, his drone is gun drone killed four of my guys on his own, because I kind of ignored the drones and just went for the, the main people drone to people, which, which, well, God, I sound like a racist to get drones now. No, they're not people down with all that. Anyway, yeah, there's nice to max the crit up. I don't think I've done, or even seen it, I'd no one's ever maxed the crit up on me in

24:20quite a while. Anyway, so that was good fun. The other thing that was quite good, I helped out at the London, London Wargaming Guild kill team beginner night, organized by Naseef, who does a fantastic job. If you're in the London area, you want to go for a practice or pure, you're a beginner, you want to, you want a nice, nice entry into it. They run monthly beginners nights. It's on meetup on the London Wargaming Guild, so sign up to those. I, I helped out, I think it was just one of the loveliest spectator things I've done in a long time is watch two people play their first game, and all they did was just charge at each other and shoot and stab. It was almost no tactics whatsoever. It was absolutely a, if you've got to watch a spectator game, that was, that was one to watch. And finally, I've got, I've played the exactions squad again against the, a wreck crew. There's no such thing as a bad, as an unfun game against the wrecker crew, and it was fun, except I had the exactions squad. So I was doing a lot of computer says no, and double parries, and I actually, I actually

25:22managed to win there against the wrecker crew, because the exactions are good into elite. Even the dog, right, I had the dog who was on four wounds. He would have killed an all boy on his own, but for the fact there was a just a scratch, save this guy. So even the dog was in on it. So I've had some, I've had some fun games, and I've got, I've got a pledge. Now, we'll see how far this pledge goes, but I've got a pledge. So I looked at my, I record all the games that I play and what teams I use. And it turns out, I've got quite a few teams that I just, I haven't played much, or perhaps they're new, and I haven't had a chance to play them much. So my values, I'm not going to, I'm only going to play the teams that I haven't played much to get them all up to five games each. And I've worked out that that's going to take 37 games. I should be able to, yeah, sort it then. That's my yearsoid. And presumably there'll be some more teams coming along this year that I may actually want.

26:22So, and yeah, and several of these are like kind of the, you know, the, the, the super elite teams like murder wing and all scouts. So we'll see. But yeah, so I'm going to try and play my lesser, lesser played teams, so we'll see if that comes forward. Okay. That's games. Killed him news. I think I wrote this a while ago. I didn't want to see the new mechanics. I'm trying to, I have no idea, or I'm going to have to look this up. New Mechanicus troops look very proxy friendly for Killed him. Do they indeed? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, you guys have properly got me into narrative and joint ops and, uh, what's the joint ops? Where it's like PDP, the, the adversary, adversary, I keep being like, oh, that made it cool. NPO. Yes. No, stop it. Stop. No, I don't need it. I don't need a box of those guys. No, this is someone's with coats and long legs. You were, you were thinking of, right? No. No, this stock here. They're like, they're pretty lucky lads.

27:24One's on the thing at least. Yeah. Just, uh, uh, I'd like for reals. So just, just to give, just to give you a list as a peak behind the curtain, anytime I see anything that I want to put in the next show, I just write it in. And this was probably days after the last, last record. So I, I can't actually remember who these are, which was three weeks ago at this point. Yeah, yeah. We're, it's only another peak behind the curtain. We're trying to keep to three weekly episodes in case you're, listeners are interested. I've got it. It's the Murmordon Destructor host. There we go. There we go. They look cool, though, right? If you also, also great, if you want to pinch some, uh, bionic legs for some terminators. The gold mongers. These are going to be some chunky, legged gold mongers. It's going to look like Wallace and Grommett's wrong trousers if you do it like that. Uh, right. Here's, here, this is, could be latest, latest news. Did Josh resist buying made to order grots? I did. I did. I managed it, but I just, I worked out a lot of pounds per grot.

28:27This is not, it's not a good day. It's not a good idea. Yeah. Then dress up as pirates. And I love goblins of any sort. And, you know, if you did it by weight, it would probably be better because these were, these were the future models, weren't they? Pounds per pound. Yeah. That's probably what I said better. Still. I just don't forget. I'll be bringing you six grots on Sunday. So thinking it's like 20 to 30 grots, we've got, these are rookie numbers. We got to boost those numbers. I thought I could satisfy him with my six grots for these, no, never at all. Okay. I just wanted to add this here. We don't normally do rumors here because they're, I don't know, we're, anyway, by, I, I think for the first ever time this week, I looked at a Valrec video and I don't even know why I try not to get into the rumor mill thing. But he seems to have heard some whisper on the warp that the future kill team may be

29:28awk mega knobs. Now he caveats it himself with this, you know, just a rumor made it true. And often I, you get the impression that someone he knows has seen a picture, but they're not always exactly sure what it is. I think someone works in the warehouse. Yeah. But mega knobs are one of my favorite things and I have some from my galopox, you know, proxy team. So let's get the judge hold it together. If that were true, yeah, look, we, if you, if you like, if you like the, if you like the words, net mega knobs, you wait till we get to the great wire talk, going to try and hold it together. I'm so sorry. Anyway, first of all, man, I should go over this by now. I never grow up. We're all basically 15 in our heart or something. It's fair. Anyway, but who wouldn't, who wouldn't like, who wouldn't like a mega knob in their hands? There we go. A little. Quite. A little treat, you've all. That's going to be, I mean, talking about goblins, I think I'm going to be called

30:28to have like a couple of runs and like, what would you end up with by five push? It would be five, I think. Yeah. I think it'd be called to have, I mean, you'd word it in a slightly less confusing way than the supernettings up to three times. You could not take an algorithm and have a ploy instead, but you could basically flex in and out a load of grots as well. I think that would be fun. That's fun. Or would it be Gretchen? I don't know. I don't know. Grots. I think that turns around to change a ball. Gretchen have tools. That's all I know. Yeah. I've been using them interchangeably in the, the boss battle document up a bit together. Get that in a minute. Okay. Well, anyway, I was vaguely got a bit of pulse racing at the idea of New York models. Okay. Connect rising. I think I mentioned in my games that I finished the first three on a one win, one draw, one loss, and I'm playing ritual. Josh, what's, what's, how are you getting on?

31:30So I've done the, yeah, the initial three, uh, and I cheated. I didn't spend time to play the finale game, but our, our, what, the group that I was in, we managed to feel two groups at the Gretchen games club, which was pretty exciting, but the one I was in, uh, plunder with a winners with three wins. That was death watch. So we're on to Nick, who was piloting the death watch. I guess I came in second with two wins as the record crew, and then we had, uh, preservation with the, uh, with the Yagers who I had a great time. I think it was the Yagers, which, which Botan team can chuckle out of mines out and you've got to be like, is that, is that a real miner? Or is that just a token that's the, the other one's salvages. It's not the Yagers. It is the salvages. It's tricks. Yeah. Uh, so I had a broke time charging bombsquakes through and being like, yeah, if it's not a mine, then great. I discovered that's not a mine. And if it is a mine, it's like you was going to blow up anyway.

32:31It's all record points. Yeah. Uh, and then Paul, uh, John drew out a shocker with the, uh, the goal one goes, who did not. I don't think got to do their ritual, they end up three losses, but they might have ritually shed a load of their own blood. I guess as far as caught with that, you don't care. First disappointing as a ritual player. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, um, destruction were the winners in my group with three, three winners. Uh, okay. Interesting. Uh, yeah. I'm playing my next, my finale game next week against, like, you call him not friend of the show, Tom, which makes it sound like he's not, not a friend. Is he another nemesis? No. I need to get these red, red hill, Tom. How about that? Red hill, Tom. Um, but, uh, yeah, that'd be good. I've been really loving this campaign and I've heard, certainly my, my red hill crew were really, really into it as well and looking forward to more, um, we'll see if I'm sure if, if, if we all give Tom, uh, friend of the show, Tom, enough great feedback.

33:34He'll be doing more of these because it's been fantastic. Um, boss, boss challenge challenge. We have some progress on the boss challenge for you. So this is where we have set the challenge of painting, building, kit bashing, a, a big boss of some kind, a non, you know, something a bit more than the average, guilty, operative. That's great on a tone. We love to see what people have created. If you also want to make, uh, like a stat sheet for it, that would be amazing. Um, good starting point is the catan nightmare in the, um, Shadow Hunt dossier. And then if you want to go three for three on this challenge, um, you can also create a scenario that this boss sits in and share it with us, um, and share it, share it with our other listeners. Uh, how have we gone, how have, how have, uh, have the crew gone? I've gone pretty well.

34:35I've got my model, I've gone and based, he's a demon, right? He's the demon prince of corn. He's up on the shelf, somebody's angry. That's what we know. He's very angry. I managed to get what a, a 3D printed resin base, um, there's kind of recessed and it's got, it's just filled with skulls. So he's already stood on a bed of skulls and then to bed that in, I put more skulls around it. And then I'm going to do like just a very thin, kind of transparent red resin port. So it looks like he's just wading across the, the realm of corn well. So just a gauge, if listeners out there going, you know, how angry someone get, right? This is the level of angry. He's just stood on a Lego piece in bare feet and he's, he's plugged his phone in. He's just about to go out for the evening and he realized he didn't switch the plug on and his phone is all 1%. Yeah. That is the level of anger. I'll do it. I think we can all identify with those two things together.

35:38You imagine. You can instantly achieve a pothiosis if I was that level of rage. And uh, you're thinking of which, if demon prince, my mission, my mission for my demon prince is called a pothiosis. I'm hoping to play test it in a week or two days. Excellent. Certainly. Josh. So I've gone sort of the other end of the scale. We've got a screamer killer, a demon prince of corn and I've just got one killer can, one wacky little guy, little fella. You're a crazed grot. Yeah. I thought I'd sort of, I've gone the other way. Like I think a, a sort of, I don't think of a boss fight, the memorable boss fights for me aren't like just a stand up fight. That's a bit dull. So I was trying to think like a, what could a killer can be doing or what could you be trying to do that killer can would stop you doing. So I've settled on, uh, the idea of a, like a bank job, uh, where a killer can, uh, had to basically punch the hole through like into a bank or an armory or something and then loaded as little grot mates trying to, uh, sneak in and make off with a load of

36:44gold or ammo or weapons or whatever. And so he's standing there trying to stop you from getting into the bolt. Uh, and you've got to try and, uh, ink of ass, I am or work your way past him, uh, so I kind of adapted the rules from the, uh, the Catan, uh, but instead of it being a sort of terrifying deathless specter that feeds on stars, when you take him down to zero wings, he goes into a mode called panic repairs, um, where you just hear a load of kind of banging and clattering and someone trying to spark up a welder from his particular cat, um, he's in the, so basically for a, uh, I think it's, you count up the number of times he's being classified previously and roller dice and then you add those together and that's how many activations he's fixing up his thing for. So it represents the fact that as it gets injured more and more, or as it gets taken out of actually more and more, it's harder and harder to fix the pieces up. That's fantastic. I love the image of how fast this grotting side is working away with his spanner just

37:46to try and like, just make it work, you know, the duct tape being pulled off the roll and like, yeah. Also that, that kind of classic movie thing where, uh, you know, um, the characters are trying to start the car and they can't start in. It turns over sort of plaintively and then the last second, just when they need it, it fires up. Let's go ahead and let's see just that right on. So these, uh, the rules I started to, uh, prefer to us upstairs, downstairs because Jason's referred to us that so many times and I misspelled dissent as like decent and so I've just started going off the downstairs. Yeah. It's the decent terrain. It's alright. The upstairs, we are full sized bulkess to give people a bit of maneuverability around the killer can and then downstairs will be, uh, probably just use Gallaudart or something to represent like a bankable or something. And so turning points one and two, there's only one entryway marker to get sort of downstairs

38:47into the vaults, which is inside the building can is defending, but then as a strategic gambit in turn point three, the grocks are going to blow a hole in the steelings last draw. And the entryway markers two and three will be put on there. And then all the grocks are trying to escape and get to the chopper with a, uh, a grock copter marker that will be dropped in at the start of turn and went for and basically you've got to just try and gun them down before they can escape. But, but, but, but, I love it. This is, this is great. Get to the chopper. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, a, um, a difference from all of those. The planet has been invaded by tyrannids. You are in the command center of the last outpost on this planet of Flinders crater. And your command center has been identified by the tyrannids as something that will break the last resistance. And they're not taking any chances. They've sent in a screamer killer. So there are going to be four fortress buildings or three fortress buildings in your command center and this screamer killer, every time it demolishes one of these buildings that

39:52all the tyrannids get some power powers. The first one they, they get an extra inch of movement, then they get, uh, an extra attack. Yeah, it gets spicy. The more it goes on. But if you can hold the bunker by turn four, you might, you might, there's a sliver of hope. Not a lot of hope. Let's be honest. The planet's been taken over by by tyrannids. Yeah. I've, I've got it basically written, uh, we're going to play test it on Sunday. I just want to give a massive, uh, big, thank you shout out to Killian L.A., I've said that right. Sorry, dude, who gave it a read through and also suggested, uh, a bunch of rules that I've incorporated. So really big thanks to him. And, uh, what are other people doing, uh, so we've got the wonderful digger owl who's such a lovely fellow. He has proposed a Lictus stroke death leaper. So, you know, the idea of camouflage, chameleon like ability, bit, bit stealth suitie. Um, I think that would be amazing, uh, uh, Killian L.A., as, as not done one boss battle

40:59rules. He's done two. That's gone excited. What a ledge. Uh, I, I put a plaintiff cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck out there because someone, because someone who won't for a crisis battle suit and, and he answered the call. He's done one. He's really, really good. He did it in less than 12 hours because he's, uh, he's, he's on Australian time. So when he checked the message, by the time we check the messages again, he's like, I've done it. I think he's on a small island with only 40 K to, to, to do something, but the real, the real one from him is agar first disciple of likeus, if I've pronounced that correctly. So this is using most of the model of the war spider, uh, it's not the exact, what's the one above that Phoenix Lord, which is what it's just, I've seen that model. It looks amazing. Anyway, and he's, he's kept bashed it. So I cannot wait to see the full rules for that, uh, you know, mega monster coming

42:00out of the warp. Uh, yeah, I'm sure it's going to be great. So, um, but if you have an idea, even if, if you've just painted up the model or if you've done one in the past, give us a picture, it's on the discord, um, or tag us in if you're on the insta's, um, if you've got an idea for some stats or a mission, again, hit us up. We'd love to hear them. We're hoping to do a thing where we were able to sort of share all of these. So you can all have a girl playing each others. So that is the boss battle challenge. Oh, and you've got until first of May. So plenty of the moment still, plenty of time. It bends. I've been used to it. We want everything done by the first of May because on the second of May, 2026, we've got a start is assault. We're going to be hosting it at the Guild Fitzgames Club. We're currently finalizing the details. I'm getting closer and closer. I've got the ticket page ready to go. I just need to hit publish and not save as draft. Um, we're going to have 18 tickets going on sale.

43:02Um, and I would love you, the attendees to show off your personalized to starties. The packs going to be going up soon. We've got seven different classes for everyone to choose from. Each one of them is so personalizable. That's wrong, but I'm going with it. Um, so unique. I doubt. Yeah. You're unique. Um, you can, you can really make the operatives unique to, to your wants. And I've really highly doubt that anyone's going to turn up with the exact same lowdown. So just to be clear, this is an event where you, you can, if you want to, turn up with one model and have the time of your life. Yeah. You get to play one super badass ball kicking space marine on these amazing missions, on amazing terrain sets with two buddies.

44:03So each, each board will have a team of three Marines, right? Yes. And you get to play against some NPO's that I'm sure are going to try and stop you from doing your mission, exactly. So if you have ever thought you want to play a space marine like they're written in the books, this is your chance. And I say you may what you could bring one, you can bring one, you'll play for the day, you'll be very happy. If you want to change up how you want to play, we're going to have two or three games over the course of the day, depending on how long some of these missions gone for, you're more than welcome to swap out what armor and load out your, uh, your Marines wearing and, and go for it, go for a different class as well. So if you want to make two or three, hell, if you want to make all seven and just, you know, make it up as you go along on the day, more than Mario, I can't wait to see them. Okay. That sounds brilliant. So look out on our socials and discord and various places for the tickets when they go live, which I'm sure may will be by the time this goes out, perhaps that's not the

45:04only event. We've got an hour schedule. So we have one that I'm sort of leading on called the great, why? So we've partnered up with the fantastic rolling zeros, who we had on a few shows ago. In October, or should I say, October, the 17th of October, mock in your diaries, we will be playing an orc only throw down smash out tournament. So you can either play an orc official orc team. They're requis and commandos or this is what we really want to see proxy any teams rules, any kill team, we're not worrying about classified nonsense. So any team that's ever been legal, well, there's currently legal, but proxied with orc models, you must be turning up with orc models, but it does not have to be just the two official teams. And the title is open, boss knob of boss knobs, there will be prizes. There'll be best painted, there'll be best proxy, there'll be best squeak, I think that's

46:11the one we all want. Yeah, there's going to be a 10 bespoke kill zones with adversary up rules. So there will be NPO operatives in there, there'll be environmental conditions. It is a tournament, however, it is not going to be balanced, is not going to be fair. The best person probably the best person may will not win, but if you are an orc lover, this is got to be the event for you. So we have it live on BCP, but I'm just waiting to follow Sean's event before we make it where to notice. So it's going to be an arcanist tavern in Hoxton, in London, probably is worth traveling for. Yeah. In talks at the moment about doing a third event, not sure, I won't say any more because we don't know the dates yet, but we've got more to come. So if you've been to one of our events before, I think you know that we run a pretty, pretty you know, externship.

47:12And if you haven't been to one of our events before, they're pretty good. And there's suites. Why the hell not? There's suites. God damn it. I would do a twokler if your dice didn't do good, so I'm excited for that at least. Jason special. Yeah. War goals, Jason. Yeah. I've got prodded. We've added record crew. So we now have 26 different teams covered in war goals. So just a quick reminder, this is you get to play a thematic mission, a little goal, a little tiny bit of admin over six games. So if you regularly play a team, you can do any match play mission with this. And it just adds a little bit of theme, a little bit of narrative to what is otherwise, just regular games. Your opponent doesn't need to know if you don't want to, but I'm sure it's lovely if you do. Anyway, we've got record crew there now. Imagine what sort of war goal they'd have and you'd probably be right. Book review.

48:13So I did a little vote with a little poll and the Death Watch Omnibus won six votes to the night. So I bought the Death Watch Omnibus and I am currently working my way through it. So this is almost quite good for the upcoming Asstanti's assault, because I am feeling the power crazed excellence of being a space marine, although I just had a bit where they ended their mission and they were ordered by the inquisitor, just to kill everybody. And some of them marginally reluctantly did it and others did it with a bit of glee. Is it possible they're not the good guys? Definitely not the good guys, but they're the best guys we have. Damn it. Okay. Anyway, I'll quite enjoy it, but I'll give it a fuller review. I'm sure when I've read a bit more, but I am the shield of slaves, that's what you need to know. Josh, you've got a new book as well, think? Yeah. So I picked up Grootnik or Grootnik at the local library.

49:16I'd go there every week with my kids, just to give my wife a bit of a break. And because you should support your local library. So yeah, I picked that up. And true to form, I have fallen off with the various goblin characters or Groot or Gritchin. I don't think they're all pretty interesting to me. Little green guys. Oh, little green fellas, because I think I'll see us as, you know, in that kind of week, you and these ourselves, we're always going to be looking at sort of all the culture from the outside and sort of, uh, Gretchen's slash goblins, slash grobs. So they give some really interesting, like insights into what it's like to be around Orcs and it, like insights into Orcs' psychology that would be awkward to give a bit was written from an Orcs perspective. One of my favorite bits so far, not very far in, is Grootnik loses one of his arms or hands. And he's yelling to all of his, like, attendance to, you know, find me another arm. And one of his orderlies, kind of quite proudly, like, display this huge awk arm that he,

50:19like, found earlier, which raises some questions. And even though all the, all the Groot orderlies are terrified of Grootnik, he turns around and he's like, that's a, that's a really nice army found there, Ricketts. But I need one with a farm on the other side. And I said, oh, he's really nice. And then he's not nice again. He's got a bit of a japan hide thing going on. But yeah, it's really interesting. One of the characters is kind of mocked by a lot of the other Orcs because he's patient. He's got the ability to, like, wait. And he's quite happy to wait and see what happens. And they're all like, what's that about? I'm suspicious of this person, as a guy. No, he should be crumpin. Should be waitin' to start. But sometimes, you know, he's waiting for the right time to crump or waiting to see his most important thing to crump. I don't know. Smells of me. Wow. He's just, he's a beast's nagger. So it's quite interesting to see about, because I don't know too much about the beast's nagger. But I quite like them. I quite like their hair. Is it were boys to, like, crazy Orcs that stand on top of their, their kill rigs?

51:22Oh, they're liking their eyes and stuff. They're quite cool. And then, yeah, after someone in the Discord asked for the list of all the books that were recommended in a previous episode, I've made my own list of the books that I have read and then the books that I worry. And I somehow have missed a load of Warhammer crime books. I thought I'd read them all, but there's more. I hadn't read. And I'm a massive fan of quite a lot of crime books. I just, and there's books that you especially would like, because two of my favourite characters are called Baggett and Claude. And they are a rattling and an ulgring. I've certainly read one of their books, which was then led to me by Matt Enemy of the show, Brown. Yeah, no, I did like that. It was quite good. It was a real, yeah, that was a heartbreaker, because it was like the, the rattling's are really oppressed, and it's like, they've become, they've become horrible as a defence mechanism. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's really sad. But it's a really, you know, I really like Warhammer crime books.

52:23I'm a big fan of Warhammer, like at a, at least at 4K, at like a sort of human level. I sort of lose interest when we get into the big Macro, like, innovations of a whole planet with like 10,000, you know, like a full legion of a starties or whatever. I remember that. Okay. These numbers have stopped meaning anything to me. You know, it's when it's like two best friends against the world, and they've got to do some crimes, and possibly solve some crimes, but mostly do some crimes, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I can get behind this. I think that's why the, you know, the O's and O's books work so openly, I think, because it's like, okay, there's a lot of these massive scale events, but really it's like one guy, and then you're reading it, trying to work out where he crossed the line, which is up we could do a whole podcast on if and when O's and O's crossing the line. Well, watch the space, kids. So just just to just reiterate, we have a very thriving book recommendation channel on our discord. If you either are after some recommendations, I want to chat about the books that you've been reading, or you've read something brilliant, and you want to share that that's the place

53:26to go. Josh has just bought a very handy list of things we've discussed on the show, I think. So yeah, go check air, listen to feedback, I'm continuing the musical thing. Yeah. We've had an email from Tom, another Tom, Tom White from all the way on the other side of the world in New South Wales in Australia, Sydney, maybe. And he writes, hello, Jason and Sean, nothing for Tom, nothing for Josh there. My name's Tom. I'm a long time listener. First I'm writer. I run a Warhammer Alliance club for year five and six primary school students in the west of Sydney. I love kill team and using Warhammer systems to promote English and mathematics. This is genuinely very good. Yeah. Outcomes in the students. I was listening to episode 50, where you talked about joint ops and solo play and heard you talking about making a set of rules for space marine operations. That sounds like a great idea. I was wondering if you had finalised the rules because I'd love to do something similar with my club. There's nothing better than a power fantasy to draw young players.

54:28Do you want to encourage young kids to power fantasies? Anyway, we're all the wearing up in a day and age, Jason, where we don't necessarily have all the power that we want against the forces that being so yeah, but you make a good case to draw young players in and get them talking about the stories they want to tell in the grim darkness of the far future. I also know that GW released a tabletop version of space marine operations, but the rules were not very kill teamy. I just want to give Tom extra points using the word kill teamy there and yeah, mate. We want to encourage. We want to encourage more sucking up. May the dice be kind to you. Anyway, I thought this was a really nice and I think Sean, you answered this one. Yeah, I did. I sent him an email back saying that he's going to get a copy of the rules before we even run the event because I want to know what the kids in school get up to and how much they enjoy it. I can't wait to hear because we've had a follow up from this one as well. I can't wait to hear what stories you and the children dictate as you play in the games together. I think I think everyone controlling one operative and just having fun as their own

55:33like school based kill team, I think I think that's going to be really good fun. And who's not here to promote play as a way of advancing all your skills that you need at school? I think that I think the whole thing's so cool. Yeah, I'm obviously terrible at math, but I've been playing Warcry with my son and give him a bunch of numbers that are equal to or less than six and you can add them up real quick now. So, you know, wait. It means virtually beating up his dad, it's funny how their maths improves, isn't it? Yeah, first of all, I let him win and now I've stopped letting him win and he's still winning, which is alarming. I think you can carry on with the myth of your letting him win, but yeah, cool. Well, thank you. If you have a letter you want to send to us, you can do so with updates on your campaigns, talk to you about the show, any advice you want, it's once upon a kill team at gmail.com.

56:33We're also available on Insta, Threads and Blue Sky on once upon a kill team. Yeah, get a touch now, a message from this week's sponsor, Sean, would you like to take it away? And the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. But beyond the borders of the Imperium, there is profit. No warrant bearing captain in the deadly frontier of Warhammer 40,000. We're seeking bold souls, gunners, dealmakers, explorers and boarding troops ready to trade with Xenos, plunder lost worlds, and outrun anything at the warp throws at us. Share in the loot, access to forbidden relics, glory beyond imagining. Survival, not guaranteed, report to Port Wander, bring your courage, because on the edge of the galaxy, fortune favors the ruthless. Join the road traders today and see the galaxy. So I'm, yeah, what's your love? Absolutely. A really obvious trap, but I think we can all appreciate the road traders are super cool.

57:36Well, the Baron von Bratznickel, the twelfth, who led last year's campaign, the Tom Rowe, was a lot of fun, I have to say. And his rivalry with Digger L's road trader was, was good fun too. Okay, this brings us finally after, like, you know, gone an hour into the hour of preamble, main topic of the show. Okay, we're going to review the Shadow Hunt box from the narrative perspective. So first, I just want to give a massive thanks to Harry H, who let me have the Shadow Hunt dossier, and also let me have the two sort of half boards that come with that box. So really huge thanks to him. I would just add that he was also giving me the pretty good sell on boarding actions. And because I happened to, when I picked out from him, he was running a boarding action night. And I don't know, I've almost got enough for 500 points of a start. I don't know, if you guys played boarding actions just on the side, I have it little warhammer.

58:43You do have enough models, Jason, for sure. He just isn't a fun game. And they do weird things, but sure, it's a point I've made before they do weird things with the end to the dark terrain as well. Okay. Well, but, but give it a go. He was super friendly and he gave me the hard sell and I, you know, thought there's something here. Anyway, so Shadow Hunt, so as, as ever, long-term distance to show, I'm actually generally a big fan of the fluff that you get in these dossiers, these books that come with the big boxes. You know, I think they're really good at sort of giving you a flavor of the, if we're on a kill zone or if we're in a particular teams. However, this one was, I don't know, I thought it was slightly muddled, but here we go. So we are now, this story brings us to the industrial world of Garanox in the Ultramar sector. So I guess this ties in with our 500 worlds campaign, I guess, which is the main sort of current theme.

59:43The area was the victim of the plague wars and for the most part, lost touch with sort of official Imperium Dumb. But now the Robooti Gilamon is back in town. They're looking to reconnect these 500 worlds. And so Garanox has been approached to rejoin of this mini empire, the planetary governor is keen, but the Ministrarter on the planet of Garanox is less keen, apparently. And it's the Ministrarter that have the battle sisters because they can't have no men can take arms for the Ministrarter, but in some kind of technical loophole, apparently a woman is okay. So, but all of that backstory, as far as I can tell, is irrelevant because they've also found a tomb world out of nowhere in a hole. The nuns with guns are going to go and investigate. And then for apropos, absolutely nothing, a murder wing team has turned up. So we're on the planet of Garanox. We're in the capital city of Saint Merin's heart, which is a great name for a hive.

1:00:47And we're investigating a crew tomb world with battle sisters, we've got proper battle sisters at last. That's pretty cool. And we've got a murder wing. Okay. Does anybody enthused by that fluff? And I've tried to give it a… It's nice to see full fat sisters. Yeah. Cool. Nobody to shame them. They'd be working out. They're musly. Just give them a break. I think it is nice. No. It's cool that Games Workshop are trying to tie because the 500 worlds is the big narrative in the game. That's their big crusade, but they're just released for different narrative books, 440K. So it's cool that they're tying in the kill team with that alongside. Except… No, I don't think there's much of a tie there was, I thought it was whoever does the team that does kill team was sort of made to chew a bit of 500 worlds into the existing bit

1:01:48of… Anyway, that aside, however, let's go into the teams. So I'll give the overall background 3 out of 10 see me, but I think it picks up a bit with the Celestion and Incidience. Again, really long term fans of the show will know I have never bought into the idea of the… No, no, no, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No. No, no. No, no, no. I'm glad that they are now in the game that we've got full proper battle sisters, and these aren't just ordinary battle sisters. If ordinary levels of intolerance is what a normal battle sister has, to get into the celestial incidents, you've got to have the mindset of better a thousand innocents die than one heretic goes free type of mentality. That's the kind of

1:02:52level man. And so these are the these are the absertionists, I think I've pronounced that correctly. So really uber fanatical, they don't like a cycle, they're really against a heretic. This is so full week A day away that the emperor is a cycle. And then shut your mouth. Yeah, you better, if I if I wrap you out to the celestial and incidians, they're coming around and giving you a punch in your teeth. And how would they know? Would you have the sense of astropathic message to them, presumably they're going to use those. Josh, I'm not liking your attitudes. This is outrageous. No, no, no, you make you make some good points. And also, you know, like they're they're praying to Saint Sylvesterine. Yes, walk, right? It's what magic. Anyway, but from what they believe, they believe they are rooting out, witches and heretics and rogue psychers. God's don't count. And but I think this is like really,

1:03:54you know, in addition to the sanctifiers being religious nutcases, but that was on a sort of, you know, sort of cult level. These are the these are the professionals, these are the professionals turning out. And they've got some, I mean, I think this has been born out in games we've seen so far. But if you've got a team that relies on quite a good cycle, just don't bother turn up to play the the the incidents because they basically switch off psychers. They have like an icon that that someone taps on the ground three times. And it just, you know, no cycling going on around them. They've got psych out grenades. They've got this is the bit I quite quite I can't quite believe they got wooden stake throwers. Did I do a lot of damage to the vampires? Yeah, well, yeah, it just has a has a little bit of the Cape Beckensole, you know, yeah, I thought they had that stuff over about it. No, the other Cape Beckensole

1:04:592000 underworld. I was going to say we're not we're not dissing those films. But there's here's a bit of that going on, I think. Yeah, so I recognize the the stake throwers the sort of because I think what sort of implied I think that the it's not just like a wooden stake is it's like I can hell boy, you know, really like has that shell that's loaded up with like shaving as a white oak and holy water and silver and garlic and it's like they're like soaked like soaked in ointments. Yeah, and they've also got like pentagramic wards and stuff like etched into them by a blind monk, you know, on a monastery world somewhere and all this stuff. By recognizing them from Let Commander, I thought it was really cool to see them like, you know, in the hands of professionals rather than the hands of us. Yeah, he's on him as a sort of half starved teenage Ganna who's on a massive come down and

1:05:59is fighting for their life in some dank tunnel somewhere. But this is all pretty thematic stuff. So I think, you know, the, you know, they are the best that the battle sisters can offer. They're, you know, I think it's 10, 10 person team and pretty cool, pretty cool. I think the models are pretty cool. I'm not, you know, I'm not a, you know, battle sisters are not my favorite faction, but I'm glad they really glad they exist. This is the proper way to have done them. Yeah, what's your thoughts on them? I think that they're like, no, having fun, you are psychic thing is it interesting as someone who used to play walk cover and then just about got my head around hopefully walk cover and before they got balanced data slated to death, it does just feel bit weirdly implemented. Yeah, it's not just like they've got really really good saves against psychic stuff or that your psychic stuff got a less chance to hit or it just doesn't work is like

1:07:05very heavy-handed and you have to wonder if there's going to be more psychic kill teams that are coming out in the future or something that they're like, that they're doing it. The release is this around so that, you know, if there is, and there's always been rumors about rumors of like a oops all demons team. Yeah, presumably psychic and then they don't want to be accused of, if this team, you know, they do release a demon team and it's super powerful and then they release the incidents and they're like, no psychic stuff, but they don't want to be accused of releasing the incidents. That would be really, that would be really odd if they released a super powerful psychic team, but only one team can be good against them. That would be holding itself. Yeah, so I mean, from the cheater chatter I've got from people playing them, they seem pretty overtuned, but only slightly less overtuned than murder wing, so they haven't had the spotlight on them, I don't think. Yeah, so I mean, as ever, I would reiterate Jason's rule,

1:08:06wait two data slates before you play a new team and it'll be fine, most certainly already better. I would add from a narrative thing here, so in the last season, I think it was we had blood and zeal, which was the sanctifiers with statue and we had the blood and zeal cards. I think both of these teams, but at the very least the battle sisters would work brilliantly with that statue and those cards. So if you're still on them banging around, I think resurrect them, because I think that would be a great combo. Okay, well, we'll move on to murder, a murder, murder wing, so the fluff. So a band of ruthless chaos space marines, who are typically a mix of raptors and warp talons, who I've only just learned are two different things. Chaos marines with jump packs covered in spikes, health and safety, third narratively, they come out of nowhere, slaughter

1:09:08you from the skies. The box art is all night lords, but I've got to say in the dossier, they come up with different warpans. So we've got the warp claws who are word bearer, murder wing. We have harrocks teeth, which is an alpha legion, a murder wing, and we have the caca demonis who are a black legion murder wing. And I think you can just basically make these guys into any flavor of chaos you like. I haven't seen any Nergal ones yet, but I don't see why you couldn't, I guess. So the raptors are jump pack space, chaos space marines, other than that, they're sort of normal, quote, unquote, normal, chaos space marines. The warp talons, however, and I've got a quote here, they've really fallen to the fell pals, and here's the quote, no longer capable of speech or reason. They can rent the very fabric of the warp with their claws. So they literally come out, you know, thin air, a bit like a mandrake, I guess. Yeah, and so this is what makes up a murder

1:10:14wing. I like this quote as well, let the welps flee, let them turn and fight. If they will, I have their scent, I taste their blood, they shall rive upon my glaive. Now, I don't say that to a date, I would say, that was savrasque hunt master of the warp claws. Yeah, so pretty cool fluff, I've got to say, jump pack, raptors, murderous, sounds great to me. I hope no one hears this out of context, by the way. So the big thing is jump pack marines. Now, I think I've long said, you know, I love a jump pack and kill team, and I do. Now, I've got a theory, right? So these are, these are sort of, except when Sean plays them, these are considered practically unbeatable. And certainly if you're a, you know, like Valkus, where there's a lot of high buildings, these are really powerful team. But I think sort of thematically, they've missed a thing,

1:11:18right? So the jump packs, I think, make you quite unwieldy in close combat. So I think they should, they're, they're like, full powers of close combat powers should only work when they charge and jump. So when they do a boost. And when they retaliate, I think it should be either like one less attack dice or one less to hit because of the unwieldy backpack. I don't think when they're on the ground being attacked, I don't think they should be as good. This would be my solution to their a bit too good. But I don't, I've not heard that anyone suggest that as a way of curbing them. But I think they would thematically work. I don't know. That's my thought. My argument there is Jason that each of them already weighs half a ton and swapping out the electoral nuclear power pack, the power they've got nuclear plants on their backpacks. That's what generates the power for the power armor. And they're just swapping out for two turbines. I don't know. But they're big, right? They're pretty massive. I also, having played Space Marine 2, the turbines are never off.

1:12:25It's just how much on they are. So I don't know if they're just always like lifting themselves. So if you, if you charge one from behind, you're just going to get hit by, you know, rocket flames exactly. Okay. Well, thanks for rubbish. My wife thought was a really cool idea there. Thanks, thanks, buddy. Yeah. So I think, I think, you know, like, I've been wanting forever to have bloody jump packs, Space Marines. And here we have, we have them. That's the argument I've heard. Five seems to work. If I had five in that game the other day, that would have felt so bad. Yeah. I don't think we can use you as an example of their tournament success. And, uh, Josh, you're building a loyalist version of these guys. How do you feel about them? I mean, I mean, I just think that it's cool narratively. Like, I think, flavor wise, it's interesting. I really like being able to fly around with the festfids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I think they don't seem to have as many

1:13:29rules for, like, keeping them alive as some of the other team do. I know the captain's got that, like, the chaos law, sorry, it's got the, is it offensive damnation? Yeah. Which can help. And I know that I think they've got some, uh, sort of CP. So, you know, some employees to help them with some stuff, but it feels like, yeah, they might be fairly glass canony if you come with stand for charge. But I think some of their rules are a bit like unfun in as much as like, oh, you've been flown over, you've taken four damage. It's like, oh, don't least give me a chance to revolve a dice before it takes some damage. But are you excited to have flying white scars screaming across the tabletop? Yeah. Yeah. As carning, as car intended. Yeah, the temptation to bring, um, you know, I thought we'll speak around with me. What would you speak of and play the who, that's the who like HU not WHO. Uh, frankly, I've not just volume on playing them. It's going to be

1:14:30fairly difficult to resist, but I will do my best. Keep it near budding. Uh, but it's probably my age, but I mean, he was going, which who song is he? I will tell you, uh, which who song to go, look up the who hate you and go, uh, UV, I UVE so good. Jason, it's a Mongolian rock band. That's what I'm saying. One of their, their bass guitar is shaped like a bow and arrow. It's so cool. For anyone who, unlike Sean and I, isn't into Mongolian folk metal. I'm not, I'm not, uh, okay, with it, it's over, but yeah. And, uh, I try, I try not to think about the, you know, cultural appropriation going on. But anyway, let's not dwell on that. So murdering might well be one of the top kill team, the most of all kill team teams ever, possibly. They, they, they definitely, they certainly tickle of those boxes, spec ops, elite, behind enemy lines,

1:15:33special missions, hard as nails. They tickle the kill teamy boxes. So I certainly approve. And I think once, I'm sure they'll tone them down a little bit. And once that's done, they're just going to be pretty fun. At least fun to play. Maybe not. We'll see how they go in next year's funnest kill team ranking. Or this year's maybe later on this year. Okay, right. Well, let's move on. So we do have sort of a new kill zone. It's not quite full, full blown terrain, but we mentioned it a couple of times. We've got dissent kill zone, which is a new way to play the game with your old terrains or existing terrains. So this is two half boards. It's a half open board, which is smaller than a half into the dark board, or two world board, or Gallaudet board. And the idea is that your one is above the other, but you've got to sort of play them side by side. But you've got to imagine that they're one

1:16:33above the other. So it's the tunnels underneath a city, or a two world underneath a city. So I've played one game on this. It's a bit odd that you start. I don't think there's any other way to do it. So I'm not really complaining, but you start. You can kill your drop zone. Your starting drop zone is on both levels. So you need to split your forces between the upper level and the lower level. So you've already descended, or some of your forces have already descended to this lower level. And I don't know, there's a bit of the dungeon crawler desire in me that wanted to start on the upper and go to the lower. Anyway, I'm sure you have to split your forces out or could you just wait it all on one side? No, but one of the objectives, the objectives are also split between the levels. So there'll be two objectives on one level and one objective on the other level. So if you don't split it, there's objectives, you're going to find harder to get, I think. So I don't think there was another way of doing it. So I'm not really

1:17:34complaining, but it is as I'm imagining these things happening. It's a tiny bit odd. But you know, I think it adds an interesting thing. And the one game I played with Sal, for a first couple of turns, nobody traveled between the different levels. We was almost like playing two separate games. And we had sort of slightly split our teams, roughly equally between the two zones. And I think it was only the later levels we sort of started traveling, but it might be, I just need a bit more practice on this type of kill zone to really utilize the going between levels. I did quite like the idea that, so these tunnels, I wish I kind of think like there's a ladder going down like a manhole to the other level or up. So if you're in control range of one level, you can be shot by someone shooting down the tunnel. By the way, as you can't shoot any more than there. And it costs three inches of movement to travel down one of these tunnels to the different level or up or up. And the teleporter often goes between the levels as well. So that's

1:18:37kind of interesting. And he certainly played a big interesting spectacular bit in my game with Sal. So I think it's pretty interesting. I don't think there's any reason why this couldn't be in proper tournaments. So it doesn't have to be just a narrative thing. It could make it. I haven't haven't seen if anyone's doing decent for tournament play, but I think that the coach and Jack Moves squad games are going to give some decent tables ago in their next one coming up. Yeah, but they're not, they do narrow, even there, not strictly narrative events are a bit narrative. Yeah. So they're good people. They're our people. Yeah. So so I don't know. I think this is definitely interesting. I would definitely like to play some more games. The only bit that puts me off is the fact that you've got to sort of travel with two sets of I often have to travel to games with my terrain. And it just means I have to double up the amount of terrain I have to do. You only need half as much terrain. You do, but then I've all of my stuff's packed in

1:19:42you know, a box. And I'd have to get out. It's almost less effort to bring to them. Oh, I don't know. It's something to think about. Yeah. Did you have you ever go, Josh? Did you say or you're about to have a go? No. So I'm using the rules for my, I guess, killer can, bank vault, heist thing. And I've actually got a game chewed up on Monday to kind of play test it, with a new player called Elliott. So I don't know how well joint ops and descent will work for an introductory game, but I think, you know, all the general principles are the same. And I think it will be interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes the corrupt and stuff means that you can just hold two of the objectives and you're sort of you're right. So I do wonder sometimes you might just be, but then I guess both players will know that. So maybe both players stick all the rock tips down in the lower kills alone. And she just got a really, really intense and bloody game of cool team happening on effectively a half size board.

1:20:46Yeah. Blast. Blast. Yeah. Yeah. Just the other thing to mention to our listeners really is, if you didn't get this box and you're thinking, can I play this? I haven't tried to exactly try this myself, but I think you can just fold over your existing boards to a half. That's good. So it gives you the like, if you're using a two-model galodog thing, it says like use the, I think it's six squares by four. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's hard, or you might have to like just ignore some bits or something. Yeah. So the main thing is you don't strictly need the boards from the pack itself. It just makes it mildly simpler. So that was quite good. We do have a whole host of narrative missions in the box. So I'm going to go through some of these because these are, I was really impressed with this. This is almost the most impressive bit about the whole thing. So we have a joint op, some three-game campaign called the Awakening. So the fluff, there's

1:21:49even a bit of additional fluff for this. We have Vorak, leader of murdering, discovers an underground aberrant, and he's not heard of what killed the cat and decides to investigate. So against, and the game comes, adds rules for NPO non-player operative versions of essentially the conoptic circle. So you get all the operatives from the conoptic circle are now a NPO to have stats in the in the dossier. So the joint op is a three-game campaign. The first mission is called Find the Source. The second, called the sarcophagus. And the third, you find out what's in the sarcophagus called Rising Doom. And it is night to bring a time. So if you also have the night bring a model, there is the mission to bring him out or it's out to the catans, have a gender. It's a no, isn't it? They're good. They're Star Gods or something. I would

1:22:55be quite keen to play this joint op. Myself, it looks pretty fun. The only problem is I don't personally have any Necrone anything. I don't know anything Necrone. So to play it strictly, you need some Necrone team warriors. I think however you could play this with anything. And if you have a different boss as we all have now on the podcast, instead of the night bring a, you could do something else. So I think finding a tyrannied nest would work equally well for this and just use the same boards and layouts. You could put almost anything. Yeah. Yeah. Adversary. You're struggling for a narrative reason why coming down there. You see that? Sorry. Go on. No, no, no, sorry. You finish. I was going to say if you're struggling for a narrative reason why the the cool model that you've got might be in the bottom of the two worlds, you can just say the Trays and Electronics. Catching devices down there. Yes. And now, I don't know, whatever you've got, what kind of effects or Alim and Ross or whatever has popped out. Alim and Ross. Yeah. No,

1:24:00that is a good call. Yeah. They also have a group of adversary ops. So this is where you play against a human opponent. So it's a normal match play except there are some NPO's in the middle fighting both of you again. And this I don't want to be controversial with the first mission of this three three game campaign is called into the depths. Hold on. That sounds familiar. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine imagine a they're cheeky. They're so cheeky. They they don't only nick the idea, but they have the cheek to actually nick the name. The whole name. The whole name. Yes. Quite. So I don't know why we're not boycotting this box to be honest because of this area. So we've got into the depths, unlock the vaults and awakening. And yes, it's Catan time again. So imagine an NPO coming up between you're trying to have a normal game of kill teams and a Catan turns up in the middle and unkillable Catan guns up in the middle.

1:25:04And then in addition to that, all of those are those two full three game campaigns. You've got four additional descent maps. So if you just want to play a normal game with no adverse reops, there's just four. So I think this is pretty generous on the narrative side really compared with a lot of the other boxes. Certainly. Yeah. You've got two full campaigns here. You've got one that you could play solo if you wanted to and one if you've got a buddy. But it's still a campaign. You've got, you know, there's things to do in that. So it's six narrative games. And then four maps just to just to kind of get interested. I think it's really good. From that point of view, like I say, the caveat for me is I don't have any netcron models directly. However, friend of the show Nick has about a million. So I might be Nick if you're out there. I might be getting touched to try and play some of these. They may not be painted, but they're going to be

1:26:04the right things and they'll have loads of them. Grace close enough to silver. It is, it is. Yeah. Doll, Dull Gray, two world. Yeah. So what were your thoughts on the campaign? Does that sound attractive? I think it sounds good fun. Yeah. I think it's cool. They've made it into three games, because I think that's pretty manageable for those people. Yeah. Yeah. It would be quite obviously really cool to then to even branch out into a longer thing, but I think that would put a lot of people off. So I think that's a good shout. Yeah. I mean, we've, with most of the campaigns that we've done, certainly ones I've done, I've tried to keep it to three games. My thinking usually is that's the sweet spot. You could do it in a day. You could meet up with a buddy and easily do three games in a day if you wanted to or over three evenings if you have a regular club night or something without too much trouble with people finishing. I remember from our old spec up days, trying to get people to do six games of something was an ask sometimes. Anyway, I think that

1:27:12I'm a bit, if you're on the fluff, I think it was a bit shoehorned in and not quite as rich as some of the other things. Yeah. That's fair enough. And none of this and none of the series of tied together, they've all been absolutely individual. They've had to have something to do with investigating a tomb world. I think out of the ones we've had so far, I think I like the stealth suits invading a tomb so that they can steal their faster than light technology. I thought that was the sort of had the most hook for me for a story. Anyway, just to finish up, one of the things that we love to do most on this show is a little bit of proxying. So if the actual Nuns with guns were not your thing or chaos is not your thing, if we got some other proxy ideas for how to use these rules. I mean, you could always talk about Eisenhorn earlier. You could always try and proxy the incidents as like Eisenhorn's die staff with the whole sort of

1:28:16null anti-cycle thing going on. I think that'd be quite cool. I just rereads Hereticus, the second book, where they sort of he uses the die staff the first time in like a full scale assault. I thought that was really cool. It's something that could be interesting. I don't know what models you would use, but you could have a huge amount of flexibility. I've seen Hermonda or like there's an inquisitor model who's got like the witch hunter hat, the sort of yeah, the teen century hat, which I always quite like as the model. By the end of the inquisitor of retinue would really work here. If you're into kit bashing, there's lots of individual models here. You could keep it the basic, wizzy wake, but do all sorts of cool things. It's probably quite a lot of cities that say my staff you could use. It's probably loads of stuff you could cover together and it would actually be an interesting opportunity to have them drawn from all walks of life and all over the place and all look different, but make sure you model them all paint them with

1:29:19something that ties them together, a color or a bit of equipment or something that they've all got in common would be quite cool. Yeah, okay, so please somebody out there make an all-do hereticus inquisitorial retinue. I'm doing... I've got one for the murder wing. Go on Jason. Oh no, I was just because I mentioned earlier I'm doing the all storm boys murder wing. They're switching from being actors, murderous actors as the void dancer troop to murderous jump pack people seeing as the molecule in stopped having fly. So yeah, that was my other contribution, but yeah, sure, what have we got? Murder wing, but we do it mainly as neckron flayed ones. So flayed ones are meant to be like the walk talent. It would slice in and out of their pocket dimension into reality, but instead of boost, it could be just them like running on all fours, scrambling like

1:30:22you take damage because it's running through you. It's picked you up and it's dragging you alongside before it gets somewhere else. These are the guys covered in sort of human flesh, right? Yeah, they keep trying to mash it into their not open mouths, lovely, because they just want to feel something. Hope no one's having dinner will listen to this. I just had like live a an idea, it's probably one of my stupidest ideas, but I was just thinking about like rules wise how the murder wing move is that they can't do their they can't do their flying or whatever from underneath vantish terrain, which is a bit like a huge big jump, right? If they if they try and jump on the botched terrain, they're going to bang their heads. Who do we know that do great big huge big bounces and jumps? It's it's squeak riders. And now I'm looking on now I'm looking on my favorite website mini compare to see how big a squeak hopper it is compared to a murder wing. That's fantastic.

1:31:24Was the result. I'm apparently I can't say all squeak hopper. Let me see. He's let down by spelling not too. It's actually not too bad. The squeak hoppers are like a bit they're a bit bigger, but I think if you that's mostly because they're all on like mushrooms and stuff. Bigger's fine. It's when it's smaller. This is the problem. Okay, right. Matt's enemy of the show brown. I'm pretty sure did a squeak hopper team back in the day. What did he do them for? Yes, he did. He did. He did them for squixters of violence. What team is that proxy? I can't even remember. Well, so that was to go alongside the Ork Stodys. He did his sisters of silence as squeak hoppers. Well, he's got. He did his own Ork Stodys. Yeah. Matt, make it happen. So that's great. And then you know, the obvious, the obvious one which, you know, the world and his mom are doing, which is loyalist jump pack marines of any chapter flavor that you like. I think if the world and his mom

1:32:27weren't already doing it, I'd be doing someone for the hearts of oak. And who knows, maybe in the future, I'll just do it anyway, because I love jump pack marines. Just do it your hipster. Yeah, I see what you're going to. And it's going to happen. I'm tempted to do it. And I've already got a murdering team. Yeah, I don't have a death watch murder. I don't know. See, I, in my head, I saw Ross from GFN Gaming. I think back in the day, he made about seven legionary teams because he just did a different flavor of them and just couldn't stop. He was slightly addicted. And I sort of sort of almost certainly wrongly thought, I'm better than that. And but it turns out I'm not actually better than that. Okay, that's great. If you, if you listener have any ideas for having to proxy these teams into cool teams of your flavor, let us know on the discord or via one of the other channels. If you've got pictures, even better to let us know. So guys, that's that's a show. Next time on on some kind of kill team, we return for another show, Tom, who made

1:33:28Khanek rising. We're going to get him on to talk about that campaign. How it went. I think Plot spoiler. I think it's gone really well. But yeah, we've had him on the show a few times, but it'd be great to have him back. Would you like to support the show? If nothing else, it would be amazing if you could post your review of the podcast on your favorite prod feed and subscribe to our YouTube and TikTok channels. If you could spare the cost of a coffee or a beer, you can make a one-off or more regular donations on our coffee account. That's also the place where you can download our considerable offerings of campaigns, joint optimitions, objective markers, and more. It's all appreciated. I will also say once we've run the Astasis Assault event, that packet's going up there for everyone to have it play at home with as well. It's worth mentioning that every time we do an event, a brand new event, we then add the pack to coffee for everyone to download is free, but we also need to give the lights on and I know you love us, so throw us a couple of quid dollars yen, something. Thank you for joining us on

1:34:32once upon a kill team. Just remember, it's not whether you want to lost, it's whether you survive the onslaught of raging screamer killer tearing into the place, tearing into the plastery of your command center and sparing your brothers on its quad talents before niching up torrent of biopathema. See you next time.