Episode 1750 - SPX: CK Gormally!

0:00From New York City, this is Hanuk News Insider, a few weekly podcasts for African comic book, animation, sci-fi and pop culture produced by Joe Gonzalez. Here's your host, Jimmy Akino. Episode 1750, everybody's Jimmy Akino with another small press expo that is SPX. Interview special. I got about 10 interviews, not about it did I get, I got 10 interviews at SPX over the weekend. This one is going to be with CKG or Mally, whose new book Everything Is Fine. I'll just work harder. Confessions of a former badass is out. They're also a biology professor, a professional researcher, etc. We talked about our love of research and how I like to do deep dives and how they like to do them as well, just to find out things that interest us. Really cool. Yeah, we talk about the book, obviously, and much more. It is autobiomial memoir, and it definitely deals with a tough subject.

1:05But a really great chat with CKG. Let's get right into it. Here we are at SPX. Hi, we are winding down SPX. I'm Sunday. I'm here with CKG or Mally. How are you? Good. Thank you for having me. Of course, thank you for taking the time. I appreciate it. Now, Everything Is Fine. I'll just work harder. Confessions of a former badass. The book. Tell us a bit about this. Oh my gosh. Okay, so the book is the title is Terrible Life Advice that no one should take. Everything is not fine, and you should not just work harder. But it's really like a way that a lot of us survive. I think through trauma and I think also in capitalism. We're just like, let me just grind a little harder and I can make this happen. Yeah. And it's good. A wife former badass. Are you not still a badass? I feel like you might still be a badass. I think I want to say that like my life, the way that I live has shifted. And then maybe my goal is not to be a badass in the same way. Yeah.

2:05So tell us just a bit about the problem. Sure. Yeah. Sure. So the book is really like about an unexpected journey in therapy. A essentially a person who had sexually assaulted me, reached out to me through the internet. And it led me back to therapy. And then it led to really this big unpacking of all kinds of things that I had not realized how intertwined these various experiences had been and how formative they were in shaping kind of like my everyday life. Yeah. I mean, it's like, it sadly probably happens far too often. Totally. Yeah. I can't out of act in things like me, you know, we're going to get a firm repressonant that annoying hides in the kitchen. You know, that's the worst it can't done, but I can't imagine. And you can show it in the book. You talk about it in the book, like the moment it happened. When did it happen? What was that just like, did it just hit you right away? Did it take a minute to feel like, well, why did this happen? Why did it just personally come out?

3:06Yeah. It was really like such a big shock. And it kind of, and it was because of that, that it really like took me out of the way that I was living and made me realize like, oh, what I'm doing. It's essentially cope, isn't it, working anymore? And that's what levied a therapy. Yeah. Yeah. I'm mentioning, like, you know, obviously, I've had this app as well. Were you hoping like this book, like, that they could relate to this and see it as that? Yeah, definitely. And I think, like, for me writing this book felt like just this thing that I was so compelled to do. Like, it kind of like, in a way, I felt it like almost like fall out of me. Like, I had to do this thing. I mean, I want like other survivors to see themselves in it. I also kind of, I think comics are such an amazing medium for talking about trauma and for talking about like using rhythm to show and like pacing in the story to show kind of how people trauma survivors survive.

4:06Yeah. So the art is black and white with a bit of blues and a couple different blues in there. Like a lighter one for closing and then more of a blueish, maybe a little more like mostly water. It's in the red and redish in there. Why these colors, why do you choose that way? So I really wanted to make the, I wanted the story. So the story itself feels pretty heavy. And I wanted to make the art feel like it could hold that story. And there's something about the black and white and the simplicity of it that offered some lightness, I think. And then the colors were really important to me. And the lighter blue was like a kind of signature color that I personally love. And then the darker blue was really like, it was how I could convey a lot of emotion in the story. Oftentimes like it's breaking the panels. Yeah, so that's kind of how I chose the color palette. Yeah, and I can say someone who deals with that kind of issues myself, but by the other things and seeing like the moments of the darker blue drowning and feeling that moment

5:11like it, you know, I think a lot of you can relate to that in different ways, a feeling of drowning. And I don't know, maybe some musical theater, former musical theater performing me, maybe think in Hamilton, there's a line in one of their songs about the moments when you're in so deep it feels easier to just swim down. And I can imagine that might have been happy in your hands and things like that. Yeah, I mean, I think one of the biggest parts of this book and like that was true to let's really true to life is like the experience of learning to be with like really difficult emotions because they think so much of our daily life. And like I think our whole society is set up so that we are essentially like suppressing emotions. And I mean, you can only do that for so long before everything's going to come out. It's learning how to like, how do you be with these things? How do you be with these things that you didn't want to have happened that did happen?

6:12Yeah. Yeah, yeah, processing emotions, often different from everyone. And like you said, I for years just stayed down there knowing them. And then one year, one time I remember talking to a therapist, a friend of mine, just a friend and I'm like, therapist. And she said a couple things that I could have found. Oh, what? I was like, you know, sort of therapeutic cry. And I was like, oh, and then now I sort of like started noticing it. It's come better about like noticing it. Yes, I'm sure. Yeah. And it's like sort of like the more that you're tender with yourself and you can like be with them, then the more that these things become, I guess like integrated and like like livable and some kind of way. Yeah. I never told you you used to really like, let's see, sort of would show your head pop you off. And I was like, oh, this is association. Oh, oh, oh.

7:12Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this is where like comics are just so fun because you can play with these things where like if I had to write about disassociation in words, I mean, that could take like pages of really can be that effectively. But I think by using my head basically as a balloon head floating off, it's clear what's happening. It's like visually clear. I think my editor and publisher like really pushed me to think about how to use the panels for that. So in some parts of the book, you'll see the panels are actually like taking up like a big like a third of a page so that you can see the head floating up. And that was huge. That was like such an important part because that is such an important like coping strategy to escape and to be like in this other, essentially other reality. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. The author showed just sort of like a lot of normal everyday moments, which was kind of nice as well to see what, why did you want to include these moments to sort of like just

8:13sort of break the story up a little and like that. Well, because I think really like this is like the wild part, right? Of like trauma responses is that I think we sometimes think of trauma responses as these like really extreme things, but actually like kind of responses and reactions are often like just everyday ways of being like overworking. You might be a trauma response. It could be that like the overthinking, the hyper vigilance, those can be trauma responses. So I wanted to show that visually in the book and so like showing that through the arc of a day and showing like what a day looked like, I think was like hugely important to show kind of like how it showed up in my life really. And you do after all this, you know going through therapy and everything else and you do find a way back. I can talk about that journey and how you showed it in the book.

9:16Yeah. That journey, so the journey was tough and I think that's what made me want to write this book because it was so transformative. I started as one person and I think I kind of unfolded and opened and became this other person through this journey. And so I wanted to show that journey of like grappling with these big emotions, what that looked like. I wanted to show the journey of like kind of like coming home to myself essentially. And I think I also kind of wanted to give people the hope that like this is possible to do. Yeah. And obviously through actual therapy, you know it was part of it but also as you were making the book, I assume that was probably a bit therapeutic as well. Yeah, it's so interesting to think about this because I think it's like really important to be like the book itself is not therapy for sure. Therapy-dick in some ways but also in some ways like really challenging because like in this way I had to like grapple with it again. And so it's like you look at other layers of it.

10:17So there are some parts of the book where I'd be like crap like that took it out of me. So like yes and no. It really interesting. I think what ultimately was really therapeutic though is that there's something been there since something really powerful and like profound about seeing my book out in the world. It feels still really magical like surprising to see it out there and then to know like when readers talk to me about it, that feels incredible. And I think what's also therapeutic is like I got to this place where I was like oh this looks my story but also it's not the story I'm living anymore. And so there's something about being able to close that book. Yeah. Like not workly and physically. Yeah and I always say like when I've known Kalee for years and interviewed her, I've left her book a year or two ago and then she got physically upset during the interview because we can talk in a time she's you know it's my story and I want to tell it.

11:19I don't live that one. It's a very similar idea where like yeah I want it out there. It didn't happen. But I'm in a much better place. I'm very happy for readers to find that out when they read your book and it's like oh it's so good. They made it through and great. Yeah I'm on a different plot line in my life now which is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So I tend to like to look around and interview with you know social media and their websites and things like that so I did a little bit digging about some interesting things. You did research into comics about shame. Uh huh. Something I dealt with a lot with the loss of my mother back in 2019 you know you know you had that guilt and shame while I kind of had a better son. Like that. Can you talk a bit about that what you found out about that? So really like from making this book this process I got nerdily fascinated with shame. I realized how much shame was almost like I wanted to say it's so visceral like almost

12:24like sticky and it like keeps you stuck. That's a really interesting thing. Yeah and in the book I try to show it that way but I got fascinated with like the way that it held me back. And then I got curious about like I was like why do we have this and like why does it affect so many people and so I dove into research about it and I made a whole bunch of comics about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you come to any conclusions why people like I'm asked for brand. Well I think that like a lot of it is coming from so much of shame it's like unjustified shame. I think ultimately it's like there because we're people who we want connection and so it's it's it's unfortunately this like kind of crappy evolutionary strategy to manage connection even when things are hard. And I think it's really also important to like differentiate between shame and guilt.

13:26Like guilt when you actually like have responsibility you need to own up to versus like shame when it's been like something's been unloaded on you. And I think like it's really important to like try to look like so tenderly at that shame and like what is where is that coming from like why is that coming up in that moment. And be kind to yourself with it. Yeah. And it's something that you know I think like that. And I know everyone goes through that. Well, I'm interested in checking out this comics for sure. Now talk about your research but you're out your researcher in a biology professor as well. For sure. I haven't done any biology comics. Yes. So I love making comics about like questions and curiosities that I have and then I do like these deep dives into research and I try to integrate it with like everyday stuff.

14:30I'm working on this new work. I got super nerdily interested in climate change and in birds and things and so I'm working on some makeup for a bit into that. Yeah. Do you have a favorite thing about teaching biology? Oh gosh. I mean I think I really, one of the biggest things I strive for in teaching is well a couple things. So first people come in like often with a lot of baggage about science like I'm like oh I don't, I can't do science or they're intimidated by it and I think I really want to nurture people's curiosities and sort of stimulate them to think about following their curiosity with it because like we have with we have phones. We have like literal all the information that we need right at our fingertips. So it's like kind of about like how do you motivate people to be interested in asking these questions and then finding information that's accurate and and also being like curious about like you know we're not like divorced from the world.

15:32We're part of the world and I think there's a lot of like dissociation from that. So like really connecting to like how are we impacting our environment. Yeah I that was one of my favorite classes in my senior year in high school is my AP Bio2 class. Oh, oh. So I did it. You know we did experiments and all that. I did pretty well. I was like oh no. So I always enjoyed. I always enjoyed that subject. Now that you mentioned research or like that I'm not a professional researcher but I'm curious and maybe it's part of my GHE where I just have to know things like I'll be lying in bed and this stuff thought will go through your head of like who invented the paper clip. So I have to get up and look at Wikipedia and find articles. Same with me say by the way 1867 for Pat Pat and this would be a good comment. And although his was not there when we used today it's more than just one but it's okay. Yeah I learned a lot of paper clips. But I love what I find someone else who does it because I love details.

16:33Yes. Is that what you sort of fell in love with it? Oh I mean I'm like a consummate like 3 a.m. researcher. Like I'm like oh shit the internet is at my disposal. Yeah you know it's like you wake up in the middle of the night and questions pop in your mind and you're like what about that. I love that. Yeah and I comments come out of that. Yeah that's great. And I just saw and you kind of briefly mentioned you were working on another memoir series of Brady, the SA's and Moshe on Herodon's climate change and puffing. Can you go a little more into detail about it? Yeah so I'm actually working on two things. I'm working on a kids graphic novel like a trilogy series which is super pumped about. Can you talk about it? Yeah the first book is about a turtle on the lamb. Yep so like slow run but it's called turtle on the run. We can envision that turtle on the run. She's like on the lamb because she's trying to track down her missing friends.

17:34So it's like a series of misadventures for her to become reunited with her friends. And then I'm working on these braided essays and they're about climate change and puffins and like emotional inheritance and like grappling with like challenging family dynamics. And I think that's something a lot of people grapple with. One in four people like people don't want to talk about being a strange but like one in four people are a strange. So yeah what is that like and like what is it like when you like reunite and so all these things. So I'm excited about that. I am too excited about the size of the difficulty of a children mother you know there's definitely another family member that we're sort of estranged right now and it's just like one side is one one side together and you're the side that's waiting like everything comes back around you know no matter what you do. See I be very trusted so I'll be following that. Yeah yeah I think it's that kind of stuff I like I'm interested in tackling those kinds

18:36of things that like people don't want to talk about but that are so common and you're like we choir people not talking about this when like so many of us are experiencing this. Yeah. When can we expect both of us? Oh gosh well I am essentially. I'm going to take a while people to say no. And I'm essentially my editor for my kids graphic novel trilogy is essentially my child who is like a brutal task master. It turns out it's like not a good idea to live with your editor. So yeah. Wake up it's time to work out. Yeah wake up. Why have you not done another page? Where are the pages? Like yeah. Wow. So yeah I've gotten great feedback from my kid. It's like wonderful to have like an audience in the house. The timeline for that was according to them probably like yesterday. I do have a pitch ready. I'm looking for an agent so if agents are listening like please reach out I would love that.

19:37And then for the other book that's a good question. That's like a more of a like slow work in progress. Yeah. Yeah I'm hoping to do. Lots of research and I'm like kind of hoping to do published pieces out of it and then put together a collection of all the essays. Oh that's great. Yeah. Have you read anything watched? Listen to recently really enjoyed. Oh gosh. I mean so many things. I'm so happy. You say. Okay what have I been reading and comics like what I've been reading? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh my gosh. I'm having such a blank and I'm like in the middle of reading a bunch of things. Okay so I've read Sarah Levitt's last book about her partner's death and that was like kind of blew my mind about how she used panels and how she used just like visuals.

20:39Some of it is just like color and like almost like metaphorical in a way. I don't know if you've looked at this but it's yeah that's pretty awesome. I'm trying to think what else if I read recently. That was one of the big things that I read this summer. Yeah. Well it is. I've always started noticing more and more of that and I love it that people are working outside of panels more and making more natural like it's a ear book of course and then they're doing this. Carp tenancy yesterday I case the iris and she sort of let's her colors bleed into the next thing and almost like this. It really flows beautifully. They're all with like the day to nine panel arc in there. The things really work but it just depends on what you're feeling. I've also been reading like a lot of kids graphic novels as I'm working on one. I mean dogman like of course because dogman's great and catcake comics club but also most recently Maggie Rams bat cat. Oh. It's amazing. It's a trilogy.

21:41Cat it's like such a lovely character and I feel like the expressions are super fun and the colors and oh gosh there's another one that I just read. Oh I've been reading. It's more like manga. Cats with jobs. Hilarious. Like amazing. I've been like very into like animal stories with kids animal stories. Oh that's so great. Yeah. What about like any sort of TV or film are you more a reader reader? I. Okay so I've been I have not been like watching too much TV and film. I would. I will say I watch this documentary. I went through my kid and I got really into watching cat documentaries. Okay. There is a documentary called Cat Daddy's highly recommended about guys with cats so so lovely like all these profiles of these guys cats and amazing and then also this documentary about parrots of telegraph.

22:41I'm not remembering the name of it but it's about these parrots who are cared for in San Francisco. There's like this whole kind of colony of them. Got none like a documentary kick recently. I do fall into those like YouTube faces of like the planet earth and everything else are animal ones. The animal planet you know you're just watching constant like following out on this family of lions. You know that I love what it was like. I love that. Can people find you online to say hello? Yes I would love that. I'm on Instagram at ck underscore gormally g-o-r-m-a-l-l-y. There's also my website. People are welcome to reach out to me there. That's my government name which is carousel. I love saying that. gormally.com. Yeah and I love chatting with people who read my book and I love talking about comics. Yeah.

23:41The book is out now. Go get it guys and thank you so much for taking the time. Yeah thank you. Thank you so much ck. Really appreciate you taking the time and if everyone wants to get a hold of us you can do so here. You can find us at comicdoosinsider.com. Email us at comicdoosinsider.com. Follow us at facebook.com.com. Subscribe and follow us on places like Spotify and iTunes so you can get this podcast automatically each week. While you're there leave a nice five star review with nothing but love. If you want to contact your host Jimmy he's all over Instagram blue sky tumbler etc. Under the handle at Jimmy Aquino. That's at JIMMYAQINO. Alright yeah mostly Instagram and blue sky these days. Alright plenty more SPX specialist to come. As I said I got 10 interviews overall. Already a few have been released and more to come. Thanks everyone for listening. This is Jimmy Aquino and this is Comic News Insider.