Ep. 99: Time to Talk About Agents! with Michele Cavallero

0:00Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of From B.A. to Broadway. You know who it is. It's me, it's Mr. Brennan Steffanick and I'm bringing you some general programming reminders. So folks, every Monday we are here with our main episode and every Friday we are here with our mini series in the spotlight. But that's enough about that. That's not why we're here today. Folks, today I am joined by the one and only Michelle Cavalero, Michelle what is going on. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. Michelle, who the heck are you and what do you do? Okay. So I am the senior theatrical agent at take three talent agency. So I handle all things TV, film and theater at the agency.

1:02Oh my goodness. That's a lot. Yes. Very exciting. I love it. Now we met many, many moons ago at the equity building for some reason, but we don't really know each other. So if you consent to it, I have the get to know you speed round. Oh, okay. That's so fun. All right. Let's do it. I'm going to ask you a series of 10 questions. I just want your gut response. I want to get to the essence of who you are as a human. I just want to know who I'm talking to. So I'm going to put 60 seconds on this clock. That's very real and very important. And here we go. Favorite subway line. Queue. Perfect summer outdoor temperature. 70. Reces or rescues? Reces. Breakfast, lunch or dinner? Lunch. Favorite store to just walk around. Bora. Okay. Bigfoot, real or fake? Real. Good. Best pasta shape.

2:03Rigatoni. Nice. Best seed on an airplane. Okay. I like... Short answer, window. I usually don't say window, but my preference is window. Understood. Best kind of theme park ride. Roll the coaster. Okay. And last but not least, best cut of french fry. Oh, waffle. Okay. Good. Correct. You really... You checked all the boxes there. Just hit 60 seconds right in the nick of time on that very real clock. Thank you so much. I know exactly who I'm talking to now. And Michelle, did you go to school for theater? I did. I did. So I was a musical theater major at Emerson College in Boston. Nice. I love that. I'm from Massachusetts. Oh, apart. I'm from like South Central Mass. So I'm really... I'm really right on the border of Rhode Island. But like kind of middle of nowhere, Massachusetts. But I am... Okay. I'm familiar with all the stomping grounds, you know. As it goes. Amazing. What was your theater star?

3:04What was your theater origin story? So I started when I was very young. I started dance at about three years old. Oh, my God. And I absolutely loved it. I have an older sister so she was in dance. So I was always brought to her classes and was watching at a young age. And so then I was like, I definitely wanted to get into those classes. So started as a dancer. And the dance studio we were at was very theatrical. So the dance recitals had like theater numbers in it. So I was really, really involved with all of that by the age of like eight. So then I started auditioning for local like community shows at about nine or ten and really knew from then on that I loved the industry in just always. At that point, I was very interested in performing. But just as I continued my career and my journey, I also started the love of the business side of things. Okay. Understood. Understood. Now, was there pressure for you to go to college and was it like kind of always known

4:05that it was going to be for theater? Like was that kind of widely known and accepted? That is a great question. So okay. So I actually didn't want to go to college. Okay. So my parents just to apparently give me money and just move to New York. Isn't that incredible? That's what I wanted. So I pitched the idea to them. It was a hard no concept. Do you give me money? Yeah. I was like, well, you know, you can just give me the money that you were going to pay for college with. And I was just going to go to the city and have an apartment and just like start right then and there. They were not they did not like they did not confirm that idea. They did not approve that idea. So they're like, no, you're on a college. Understood. So I knew then if I was going to college, I wanted to major in theater. And to be honest, my parents didn't, you know, argue that or anything like that. They were so thrilled that I was even going to go to college and like was up for wanting to go. So it was great. So I was a musical theater major. I had a minor also in marketing and PR.

5:06Oh wow. It was a really, really lovely mix of both. Yeah. That right. Did you end up moving to the city right after graduation? So I was in Boston for the four years for school. And then I actually moved out to Los Angeles for about 10 years after college, which was incredible. And then moved to the city in about like around 2008 or nine. I went to the city and have been here ever since. Wow. What made you choose L.A. over New York? So when I was in college, there was a program where you could leave Emerson for a semester in Boston and go to the L.A. campus of Emerson and experience just the classes out there. And you also would do an internship for credit while you were out there as well. And you're still enrolled in Emerson, but just through their L.A. campus. So I did that really fell in love with L.A. I loved the weather. I loved the palm trees.

6:06I loved the energy. Everything was so entertainment industry focused. I really loved it. So I did that the fall of my senior year. And then went back to Boston to graduate in the spring. And then I was like, you know what? I want to move back to L.A. A lot of my friends were also at the time like living out there from Emerson. I was like, I want to go back out there. So I moved out there and I just loved it. Awesome. So I was there for a good chunk of time. I was there for 10 years, which went so fast. No kidding. Geez. That's crazy. Yes. Were you working in theater versus film more or? So I was actually working mostly in theater and dance. Okay. So, you know, it's so rare. I feel like someone's moving to L.A. to do theater. Yes. But when I was out there, I was teaching dance at several studios around the city. And then also auditioning for theater projects, but also film and TV. I've always had that love for theater. And there's so many, besides like the touring shows that are auditioning out there, there's

7:08also a lot of productions just happening in L.A. as well and great connections to be made. So it was really a fantastic part of my career living out there. That rise. So what made you decide to make the switch over to New York and how was that transition? Because I feel like they're two very different beasts. Yes, they are. Okay. So I grew up in Connecticut. So I was very East Coast already. And when I was younger, I mean, we'd always go into the city. So I was very used to New York. But when I was out in L.A., my sister and her husband who live in Boston were expecting a baby. So I was like, I cannot live that far when my nephew was going to be born. So that was the reason why I moved back East because I was going to have an nephew. And I just wanted to be closer to my parents and my grandparents and my family at that point. But I still loved L.A. I was like, you know what, if my family is close to New York, then why not move to New York? I could do what I love in New York and have that family atmosphere too.

8:12So I was like, we're just going to do it. Of course. So I did. What was it like kind of like in terms of the change of pace of the industry and also the world around you? Because I just feel like L.A. is very relaxed and go with the flow in a way that I personally struggle with. The first time I booked a regional gig was in California and I was just like, even just like driving to a place, I was like, everyone seemed so calm and ready to just sit here behind a stoplight. And I am ready to rev on out of here. I can't believe this. Like, what was that kind of transition like, especially with the theater industry in particular? Sure. So when I was out in L.A., just like you mentioned, like you're driving everywhere, I actually loved that though because, you know, the car was just like a place of like silence. I was able to think, I was able to think about choreography. It was just a really, really nice time where I just like had a minute and by nature, I'm

9:12very go, go, go. So I feel like the laid backness of L.A. was actually very good for me because naturally I'm very go, go, go. So it was actually great to have a bit of a contrast there. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then when I moved to New York, you know, you're walking everywhere, you're going place to place. The studios where I was teaching out in L.A. also had branches in New York. Oh, man. So I was able to transfer to the studios in the city, but that's a different ballgame because in L.A., you're driving studio to studio and teaching in New York. You're like running to the subway, going uptown, going downtown everywhere. So it really is just really mentally taxing. I can imagine, yeah. It was definitely a shift in terms of energy and dynamic, but then I got in the flow of it. I think it was helpful though that I was so used to the city because, you know, from Connecticut, we always were in the city. My dad worked in the city. So that was always very like home feeling to me.

10:13So it wasn't like I was really going to a new place. I was very familiar with everything. I understood. Yeah. I feel like I do miss a car. I love to drive. I do miss that luxury, but also just like the idea of being in a car in the warm weather of California. I feel like I would be able to really romanticize my life a little bit more there. You know, like I could just drive in with the sunset and the windows down. I can imagine. But you know, it's, you can romanticize your life depending on where you're walking in New York, but you can't have a destination that you really need to get to because otherwise you're it's too much. You know, at this point, I'm walking through Times Square throwing elbows to get to where I need to go. And it's just like it's, it's crazy. I feel like a more ruthless person than ever these days. It's wild. Oh my God. Good times. Absolutely. So what was the transition like going from a performer and teacher into talent agent on what was that? What were the kind of steps and journeys and positions that you took along the way?

11:14Sure. When I was in high school, so I went to high school in Connecticut during like Christmas breaks and whatnot, I did a lot of internships in the city at some agencies and casting offices. Oh, nice. Because I wanted to get a feel for the business side of things. When I was younger, I watched the movie Life with Mikey and Michael J. Fox played a talent agent in it. And from when I watched that, I was like, one day I'm going to be a talent agent. Wow. And I became like obsessed with that. So yes, so I did a lot of internships because I wanted to just get a feel for it. And I liked it. And I always wanted to really know like what was going on behind the scenes. So then when, you know, I lived in LA, I mentioned for a bit. When I was out there, I also worked at a dance talent agency, which was incredible. I had such a fantastic experience there. And then when I moved to New York, I was auditioning first and then transitioned into agency work. So when I was auditioning and performing, it was just, I loved it.

12:18But I felt like I was, it was very exhausted. It was an exhausting lifestyle, you know, I was getting older. And I was really drawn to the business side of things. So I was like, you know what, maybe we're going to give this a try. So the great thing is I was able to transition to the business side of things. And I wasn't missing performing, but I was still really involved because, you know, we're sending our clients auditions. I'm hearing how the auditions went. I'm seeing clients and shows. I'm still able to be so immersed in theater, which I love. But the pressure of me auditioning and performing is just not there. Of course. Yeah, no, it's a lot. It can really be a lot and it can really be a slog. So, you know, it's, I feel like it's a natural kind of course when you come to the end and you're like, you know what, I need to live life a little bit more. You know, I need to not be so caught up in everything and, you know, it's just how it goes. It's just how it goes.

13:18Now agents, I feel like there's a lot of misconceptions. I feel like everyone is always like, I need an agent and then all of my problems will be solved. So let's dive into it. Okay. What exactly is a talent agent? So we represent clients. So in my department, we represent clients in TV, film, and theater and we try to get them work in projects that they're excited about. And when we get them work, we advocate for them. We look over contracts, we do negotiations. We really are a team with them. So just have their back. Listen to them and relate to casting to production teams exactly what they're looking for. So what exactly would you say is the division in responsibility between agent and actor? Like what are the things that an actor will continue to be doing on their own or continue to have to do independently after getting representation in that stuff that maybe people

14:21think is just something that an agent is supposed to handle or whatever, you know? Yes. Okay. So it truly is a team. It really is a team. So agents will do their part, but actors still need to, of course, be making those connections, taking those classes, continuing with training, going to the EPA's, going to the ECC's, being seen in person for things because in agent, we could push and pitch and do everything. But the actor also needs to get in front of folks as well. And truly, we're just a team working together for the goal of securing actor work. Wonderful. So, you know, we need those updated headshots, updated materials. We have to make sure all of the materials are competitive. So then casting bites on their end. Once someone gets an agent, it's not that the agent then does all the work. It really is just an addition to a team. Understood. Now, what exactly is the difference between an agent and a manager and how do y'all kind of work in tandem and separately at the same time?

15:22So if an agent and a manager work together, they're really just two parts of the team. And they really work together for the goal of finding work for the actor. Every agent and agency works different with management companies and managers. So I could really only speak for myself in the sense of how we work. So as an agency and as an agent, I'm very hands on. So I really love that hands on approach were a midsize agency, but we have a very boutique feel. So I love being part of that journey. Managers will do, you know, and every manager is different as well. So they guide careers. They have a really close relationship with their clients. Sometimes clients choose to have an agent and a manager on their team. Sometimes they'll just go the manager out. Sometimes they'll just go the agent route. It really just depends on their preference. But we're completely open, of course, to working with managers. Again, you know, someone else to the team to bounce ideas off of to, you know, think

16:23together on strategies and goals really is just a strong combination. Yeah, for sure, for sure. So now the age old question, of course, is how does one acquire an agent? So let's say it's someone who doesn't have like a showcase at school or anything and is entering this industry professionally. How are we doing that? First of all, what should we be considering when looking at agencies and trying to find, what on, quote, that right fit, you know? Well, so definitely asking friends or mentors if they have an agent, if they have recommendations because referrals are fantastic. Someone who has worked with the agent before because they can give you that hands-on, you know, knowledge of how that person is to work with, you're going to want to find an agent who you can jive with, who you could talk to, who you won't be afraid to ask questions to, who will be open to that conversation. Because again, it's part of the team. So you want to put a work with your team. So in terms of acquiring an agent, though, there's a couple different ways.

17:24Either, you know, this showcase, but if you don't have a showcase and you're just looking for an agent, you could always, of course, go to a website, a lot of agencies. I know we have a submission drop down on our website that you could submit through a portal. And then we'll always look at those materials when they come in. We love referrals from other clients or just casting directors or teachers referring to actors to us via email, fantastic. We have some actors who are still mailing us headshots and resumes. I love a hard-copy headshot and resume that brings me back to my days of performing. When I was looking for an agent, I was like sending them out in like that big man out envelope. I had my mom go to the post office to like make sure I had the right amount of, you know, make sure the stamp was the right amount for that envelope when I was younger. Yes, it really brings me back when we get those hard copies. I love that. Yeah. Referrals really are great though. Of course. Of course.

18:25Now, how do you feel about paid-of-play showcases and that kind of thing? Is this encouraged? Does this, do we think as fruitful as is advertised in general and stuff from like programs that are doing that kind of thing? Absolutely. Do you never know where exposure can come from? Or has it? So I mean, you can do those and you never know who's going to be either at the showcase or who sees a recording of the showcase. So you know, there's never really harm in doing that. It's also another chance for you to get up and present yourselves to do material, anything like that. I mean, I think that's another just great way to get out there, but of course, things get expensive. So really, it just depends on if the actor is able to swing something like that, but you never know who could see it. Of course. Of course. You know, it's the nature of the beast where like this is an industry that you have to invest in. You know, when you have to have your casting profiles, you have to make sure your head shots are good and whatnot. So like, it is just the delicate balance of like, what are we devoting our time and our money to, you know? And like, I mean, a lot of times, it can feel, it can feel quite frankly, very hopeless,

19:30you know, it can feel very hopeless. Sure. And so I think it's always nice to have these reassurances when the people that are actively participating in them are like, yes, this is a viable way to do this. Like this is something that can help you. You know, so a, thank you for that. Sure. Well, I mean, we met because you were at an agent access audition and I wasn't even the monitor for it. I was just working the front desk and you entered with like such a nice energy and like seemed genuinely excited to be there in a way that quite frankly doesn't always happen. And it was just really refreshing. So also, thank you for that too, because that's another thing is the agent access auditions is like, people will spend their entire day at the equity building just to try and be seen at one of those, you know? So it's always, once again, another one of those things where it's like, is this actually worth the time and the energy and knowing that that is like a viable option once again is just nice to hear, you know? Oh, absolutely. And I've signed many clients from those agency access auditions.

20:32I'm always shocked when people sign up for them to see me. I'm like, always with me is when there's actually people there. So thank you for signing up to those. Of course. Of course. Now, if you apply to an agency or whatnot and you don't hear back anything, how long would you say is an appropriate amount of time before one considers maybe reapplying to the agency? Like I think one can assume that like time should pass and they should maybe hone certain skills or whatever, but how long would you say would the interim be appropriate? Great question. So I mean, you know, it really depends because rosters change all the time also. So it's we always, as you know, I never want to have too many of the same type on my roster because I really don't want them to bump each other out for the same roles. Of course. But rosters will change all the time because abilities will shift, you'll have clients that'll book things. So you never know when there could be a spot open for the certain type that you are.

21:33So I mean, you could wait a month, you could wait a two months, you could, you know, if you book a play or something and you have an update to share, you can always reapply to the agency with that update as well. Oh, amazing. So you really kind of gauge what it is. If it's like an online website portal, I mean, you could wait a month, apply again, you never know. They sometimes do get busy. Those portals and then really it could be that the agents haven't looked through them yet. Understood. Either. So it could just be a beat until you hear something. Heard, heard, heard. Now, when we're starting to like get in talks with agencies, say we're window shopping and whatnot, what are the kinds of questions that you think actors should be asking potential agents? You know, what are we? I think this is another kind of thing like with the audition kind of mindset where it is not only like a talent-based thing, but it is also a vibe check, you know, it is also a job interview. Yeah. And it's a job interview that goes both ways. It's the, yes, you want to know how I can work for you, but also vice versa, you know? Absolutely. And the actor really is interviewing us.

22:33So again, you really want someone who you feel connected to and you feel comfortable talking with. So I mean, questions that I always think are really great questions is how many actors do you have on your roster? How many do you have that might be going for the same role that I fit? Yeah. What's the best form of communication for you? What do you look for in a client? You know, tell me a little bit about yourself. You'll have actors who will ask you that as well. I mean, since I have a performer background, I love that because I feel like, I'm able to really connect to the performer side of things because I was in that area. So asking your agents background can really help you get to know them better as well. Yeah. Of course, of course. I mean, it is at the end of the day a relationship in every sake of the word, you know, it is something that is not only beneficial, but can also be turmoil at the same time. So it's important, especially this is an industry full of personality is this an industry full of opinions, you know, it is important that we kind of find those right fits and

23:36whatnot. And that being said, in that aspect of the relationship, at what point would you say one can recognize that maybe this relationship isn't serving them on either side of the coin? And maybe it is time to consider the breakup or the parting of ways and all that stuff. Sure. So I think a lot of that can be felt in like the energy. Understood. Is a brace of energy if there is, you know, if someone's very short, you know, if there is someone, you know, you want to make sure it's the right fit. So if the energy and attitudes, I feel like speak a lot in that aspect. So it's like, you know, our job, it's very twenty for seven. So you really don't want to work with someone who doesn't have a great attitude. Of course. So I feel like energy and attitude is something I really look for. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Now what would you reckon in terms of like just general communication, like how frequently and what are the best methods that you would say an actor and agent should be communicating,

24:40you know, because I mean, obviously you got a lot of clients, you got a limited amount of time. So like what would you say are the most efficient ways of clear communication that should be utilized? So email really is, I would say what should first be utilized because if something isn't time sensitive and we're not able to immediately respond, we're able to pin it, pin the email and then circle back with it. Or if an assistant or a coordinator is CSEED and if the agent is away from their desk or handling something else, they're able to pop in and answer. So I always think email is the most effective. My clients also do have my cell phone as well. I always, for, you know, text or anything like that, I always try to keep it to, if it's an urgent matter, text me if you're going to be late for an audition or if something is due really soon and you need an extension, anything like that, of course, shoot me a text. But since it's my personal cell phone, my text sometimes get lost because I also text with my niece all day.

25:40Of course. So I would hate for something to get lost in there. So it's just safer to do it on email because my coordinator is CSEED as well. But I'm very communicative with my clients for over text and call and of course, if something is urgent, I'll always call them as well. Yeah, of course, of course. So when we're applying for agencies and whatnot, what should we be having prepared? What should we be sending in, you know, are you watching hundreds of videos? And if so, do you have a preference over like Reels versus Clips and all that jazz, you know, these, I feel like there are one million people saying one million different things about what should be done, but it's never actually coming from the agent's mouth. So I am curious as to in terms of intake of information, what is the most beneficial for you. So, and you know, it's so subjective, I feel like. So I mean, you know, I'm only again speaking for what I like. So headshot resume, I think a real is great.

26:41Clips are also great. So truly, whatever you have that shows your strongest material I'm fine with, I like Reels because it can show a variety of things. But if you don't have much footage or anything, a clip of something is as effective, really. Understand. It's really case by case, depending on what the actors have. A strong headshot resume and some sort of footage is key. Wonderful. And then also on that same note, what should folks be having like on their actors access? Like how many clips, once again, it is a, it is a what we're investing in and this is important. Like, what would you like to see already from folks in terms of how they are already trying to market themselves and put themselves out there via things like actors access? So in terms of photos on actors access, I love a variety because when we're submitting, we're able to customize in default and hide photos, depending on the role we're submitting

27:41for. So I love a variety of photos because we're able to really pick what photos we think, identify most with the role that we're being submitting for. Okay. So a variety of photos is great, making sure of course the resume is current, updated, everything is clear, you know, no spelling errors. The font looks uniform, the headings are bolded, making sure that just looks professional. And then in terms of media, so you could have a reel up there, you could have different types of footage if you wanted to break it down with, you know, different types of vocal clips. If you had monologues, if you had scenes, also since so much is done over self tapes these days, also find if you don't have professional footage from like a show or something like it. If you put up a really strong self tape, we're so used to looking at self tapes these days that that's completely not out of the picture to have a strong self tape up there because sometimes it's hard to get footage if you have, right?

28:42If you know, if you haven't done a film or a TV show or a professional stage production. So it's like you work with what you have, but just having that stuff up there. And then when you get an agent to look and they'll kind of tweak things and suggest things, just depending on what they see on the breakdowns and what they think could help you be more competitive. Of course. Wonderful. Now, in terms of like submissions and things, when it comes to the actor agent relationship, what would you say is once again the kind of division of responsibility in terms of what is being submitted for and then is it kind of the agent's responsibility to kind of know what shows and what kinds of roles they should be submitting their clients for? Or is it like, I'm going to ask them first what their opinion is and what not, all that kind of jazz. Great question. So this is, and I would assume this is different for every agent with how they work. So in terms of what I really like, so we submit for anything and everything we think

29:44clients are right for, but I love when they email me and flag projects for me, because it truly makes my job so much easier, because we're submitting for, you know, we think that they're right for what they've expressed that they're right for, but they know themselves best. So I want to make sure we're submitting and pushing and advocating for things that they're excited about and want to do. Understand. It's hard for us to email them every time there's a breakdown that comes out being like, would you want to do this? So we really just put it out there and we, you know, customize everything, submit them, pitch them, but I love when they flag me on projects. It's just so helpful for sure, for sure, for sure. And in that same vein of like the internet of everything and whatnot, how often would you say that you are utilizing social media and websites when it comes to like, also like finding talent and also trying to gauge what kind of presence your clients should be having on the internet these days. So I mean, again, you never know where you're going to get the exposure.

30:44So the social media pages, the website pages, I mean, keeping them, if you have a personal one that's separate, that's private and then a professional one, keeping the professional one looking professional, if that is the one representing you as an actor, because there are folks that are going to look at these social media pages. It could be directors, it could be choreographers, it could be casting directors. So you want to just also be careful what you have up there too. I think a website is great. It always helps me with a website to you to pitch clients using the website. Yeah. But I mean, there's so many different ways to pitch someone. So if you don't have a website, that's also fine. But social media, I mean, having an Instagram, having anything up there where you have vocal clips or some sort of clips or advertising a show you're in, helpful, of course. Really? Because again, you just never know who you're going to come across. Yeah. 100%. I feel like especially these days, we are kind of in this mode where everyone, the key word, the buzz word right now is authenticity. I think we are in an age where there are so many talented people, everyone's talented

31:50for sure. But like, what are we doing to make ourselves stand out in terms of who we are as a person? You know, sure. Would you say that you kind of have any like, I don't want to say red flags, but anything you flag in terms of this person is doing what they think I want them to be doing and not necessarily what they should be doing in terms of like representing themselves holistically as who they are as a person. Hmm. Yeah. I mean, of course you want, you know, authenticity, of course. I feel like that is a really, really good question, right? I mean, I feel like, you know, I always want to make sure everyone is being their authentic self. I don't want my clients to feel pressure of any sort to like impress me. And you know, some clients be like, oh, I just want to, you know, I'm so sorry, I'm not looking at anything. I just want to make you money. Oh, my God. I want them to take that pressure off of them, you know, I want them to just be themselves out there, you know, the right opportunity will come along.

32:50So if someone is, you know, not being their authentic self or putting, you know, or something trying to impress me, I try to talk to them about it too because that's just not necessary either. I want them to be doing things and doing things that they love and expressing themselves and how they want to hurt. I love that. I mean, once again, it is just the buzzword of the century and I am also one to really pitch on this show that like, you need to have a very well-rounded life and we shouldn't just be sitting in holding rooms only talking about theater, you know, like we don't need to be showing up in our Sunday best to every audition, like we can be comfy, we can be wearing the clothes that represent us best and whatnot because at the end of the day that is what we are advertising. This is a business and we are essentially a product in a way that we need to market ourselves but also we've all been in a process where we show up and there's one person that's just, you know, it may be a little unbearable, a little tough to work with and it's like, oh, well, they were very different during the audition, you know, they were very different

33:53in that moment and now we're seeing the, the real person, now we're seeing the authenticity and it's kind of a little too late, you know. Oh, yeah, of course. Tricky, tricky stuff, but. Absolutely tricky. I mean, once again, it's a business so we're dealing with everyone in opinions and everything, so we love it. Good times. Now, I mean, this audition season has felt particularly crazy and on like the actor side, also on the monitor side and everything, we're seeing a lot of changes kind of in terms of, I'll say general number of people and it is harder and harder these days for non-union to be seen at EPA's and ECC's and all that jazz and a lot of people are taking their card just for the sole aspect of getting seen at auditions. Sure. What is your kind of lens on the union versus non-union? When is it time to join? What is most useful for you as an agent?

34:56And once again, this is subjective. This is different for everyone, but like in terms of the general conversation, what are kind of your thoughts on the debacle of it all? Sure, sure. So now that, you know, it's open access, you can join really at any time. And I support wherever my clients are with joining. I know a lot of clients will come to me saying, do you think I should join, do you think I should join? If someone's still open to non-union opportunities, I always suggest to hold off, so they can still experience those non-union tours or those non-union contracts if they are still open for working non-union jobs. If it is someone who is like, I'm not interested in non-union tours, or I really only want to focus on equity work, absolutely. You know, join equity, it's great. You can really be seen in those EPA's and ECC's. It's great to get in front of casting that way, so valuable. But really, it's so personal for everyone that I really support everyone's,

35:56when clients have come to me, I've never had like a huge argument with someone, either joining or not joining. I really support whichever way they feel as best for themselves. It's their career. I'm part of their team, so I really always put my two cents in. But at the end of the day, if they want to join great, if they want to hold off great, they can join later too. Yeah, that's, I mean, it's definitely a big topic of conversation right now, especially because the EMC program is about to end in May. And so now, once again, we have this whole other pool of people who are now going to have to make this decision of, are we going to take the card or not? And also, really tough for EMC to get seen these days. So I feel like we're going to see, once again, another surge of people joining the union from that pool as well. So just even more food of thought to take into consideration of, well, now there's going to be this whole group that was non-union that is now in the union, which also means, at the same time, more non-union opportunities, but also how are we going to get them if we're trying to just show up and be seen at all these

37:01things? There's so many pieces to this puzzle, you know, and none of them really seem to fit together too perfectly. So it's, it's, it's a doozy, it's a doozy. Sure. And I feel like you could spit in your head so much about it too. But, you know, the right, everyone will make the right decision on what feels best for them. For sure. But I know it's such a tough decision to take and when to make it. I'm in that EMC pool right now. So I'm having this mental fight where I'm like, you know, like, am I still open to a lot of non-union opportunities? For sure. Can I afford a lot of the rates that they're necessarily paying these days? Not necessarily, you know, all that draws. I'm also, I'm 29 years old. You know, I'm a 29-year-old guy. I would like to have a more stable life if I can. So it's just, in my heart of heart, I'm thinking that it will probably be more in line with what I do and what I need in terms of all that stuff to join the union. But there's just so many opinions being thrown at you at all time. So it's really, it's one of those things where you do need to know yourself. You have to

38:06have enough sense of self to kind of rationalize these things. I always, I always talk about my rational brain, you know, I have my rational brain that kicks in when I'm kind of in that fighter flight mode to say that, you know what, you know, you just want someone else to tell you, but in your heart of parts. It's totally. In your heart of hearts, you know, and you need to just do what you need to do and not worry about whatever your mouth thinks, you know? Absolutely. Which can be hard, which is a hard thing. You sometimes just want someone to tell you what to do. Exactly. You know, it's always nice when you can say, well, this person told me to do that. So I can blame any results on them or give them a credit for any results, you know? It's like, yeah, it's being an adult is hard. Being an adult is hard and having any guidance is always helpful and, you know, especially in an industry where it can get tiring of fighting for yourself. Like, it's always nice to have those other voices and those other opinions of people who want to fight for you or want to see you succeed. But once again, you have to know, in your heart of hearts,

39:07if that is what's best for you, you know? Yes. So true. Absolutely. I know. It's a very tough decision. Yeah. It's a very deep philosophical thing, but like, that's life. That's life, you know? Now, having been a performer, are there any kinds of ways that you kind of approach being an agent to kind of alleviate a lot of the general stresses of the acting life and all that kind of thing that you kind of, when you were becoming an agent, you were like, you know, what I want to make sure that people don't necessarily have to go through these things as much as they can if I have something to do with it, you know, if I can help in that way. Sure. So I always want, I mean, we have to celebrate every win. So every single win, getting a tape request, that's a win. Of course. Being seen in person for something huge win. So every step along the way, even if you're not actually getting the job or the role is a win because you're planting a seed and something can happen because of that seed later on. Of course. So as a performer, I feel like when I was performing,

40:14it was so long ago at this point, but every, you know, for me at that point, the win was when you got the role or you got cast, but I really love to celebrate the process of it because, you know, if you get the role that's really just the cherry on top, but it's like you made the connection casting was able to see your tape. You were able to put the material on tape. We have that for future pitches. So there's so many other great things that happen along the way and just really keeping the attitude up, keeping the momentum forward to and also trying to, you know, you submit for something and trying to just forget about it, removing on to the next thing, whatever's going to happen happens. Because I remember when I was auditioning, I was like harping on the last audition and oh, am I going to, you know, refreshing my email 50 times and am I going to hear something and checking it with my agent, things like that. So, you know, I feel like it's also important to, you know, audition, put it out there and then kind of, you know, move on because it's out of your hands. Yeah. Yeah. And that can be time. This is. Oh, of course. So much easier, something done.

41:19It's once again, one of those things where I'm like, we need to have a well-rounded life so that we can just leave it behind and we can go and we can focus on the next thing or we can go and do a hobby that we enjoy and whatnot to just, just leave it in the past and have time move forward. But we always just, you got to keep moving forward. It can be so difficult. Also, we have great tools that can also be very much abused like audition update and call back corner and all these like online forums where it's like, we can use them as a tool for sure, but we can't live and die by them. We can't be constantly checking them and, you know, we can't focus on the what-ips of the past. We can only focus on the works of the future and how to navigate those healthily because we can definitely do it unhealthily. And I think we all fall into that trap every once in a while where we're like, you know what, I have to delete this tab from my favorites because I cannot continue checking this online forum for my own sanity and well-being. It's not worth it. Absolutely. No, of course, mental health first and it could get affected so much with things like that.

42:23100%, 100%. I feel like I've kind of hit all of the big points that I want to hit. Is there anything else that you feel like you would like to talk about in terms of the actor agent, relationship or dynamic or whatnot or anything important that you want folks to know? No, I mean, this was such a great, great questions, Brennan. Thank you for having me. Of course, of course. I think this is really important. I don't think there's as much transparency as there should be when it comes to kind of like the the agent side of things or the casting side of things. You know, I think it is important to open up those those kinds of paths of communication because answers are hard to come by. You know, answers are hard to come by and you also don't want to be annoying. You know, you want to make sure you're fostering good relationships and putting yourself out there as best as you can, but it is it is hard to know for sure on a lot of these things. So I'm really I'm just really grateful that you were willing to sit down with me and have this chat today because there's a there's a lot that people want to know that may be too

43:24scared to ask or don't know the proper channels to ask. So I just I want to get this kinds of discussions out there for sure. You know, and once again, it is all subjective that it is all opinion based, but it is nice to at least have yet another opinion and conversation out there in the world. You know, yes. Thank you. Of course, of course. Thank you. You know, it's it's important. And I really once again, I was just really refreshed by your energy and your outlook on things when we first met. So I was I was really looking forward to being able to share that with the rest and kind of instill a little bit more hope in those realms that are always scary and gray and vague, you know, that kind of stuff, you know. Thank you, Brennan. Thank you so much. Awesome. Amazing. Michelle, do you have any other words of wisdom you would like to share or any advice for the young Michelle's out there? Young Michelle's. Continue training, continue auditioning for things you love and keep relying on your support group as well. Your friends, your family. It's so

44:25important to have a team there with you to help navigate through what sometimes could be really tricky times. Yeah. Of course. There you go, folks. But thank you for having me. Thank you so much. Everybody, get out there. Start doing the thing. We're rooting for you. We are your biggest supporters and you can be our biggest supporters by finding us on Patreon. That is patreon.com. So I should be able to Broadway your general disclaimer. We are not gatekeeping any vital information on there. That is just for fun, silly bonus content, silly stories from the folks that I bring on the show, things I cut out of the episodes for various reasons, looks into the lives, all that kind of stuff. So get over there. It's a fun time. As always, you can find us on most social media platforms at B8A Broadway. Michelle, where can folks find you if you want to be found? So you could either go to the take3talent.com website or my email address. It's Michelle with 1L M-I-C-E-L-E at take3thenumber3talent.com. Amazing. Thank you so much for being here.

45:30You are truly welcome back anytime this was a delight. Thank you. And until that next time, folks, bye. From B8A Broadway is created, produced and edited by Brennan Steffanick, Music by Dylan Kaufman, and Cover Art by Jordan Vong Seifi.