Ep.218: Amelia South and No BS Herbalism

0:00Music Welcome to the Plant Cunning Podcast. Where we explore a relationship to plants, other people, and the mysteries of nature. Coming to you from the High Allegheny Plateau in Central New York. We are your hosts, AC Stobble, and Isaac Hill. Welcome to another episode of the Plant Cunning Podcast. Today on the show we have Amelia South, the No BS Herbalist. And she is going to be one of the speakers at the Plant Cunning Conference this year, which will be July 24th through July 26th at our small farm in Central New York. We have some other amazing speakers including Seven Song, Kate Gilday, and they know Driscoll. We have many more than that too. And you can find out more about that at PlantCunning.com.

1:02Before we get to the show, I do want to also let folks know that I am available for Vedic Astrology Consultations. If you would like to set up a reading, you can email me at info at PlantCunning.com. Okay, thank you. Welcome to another episode of the Plant Cunning Podcast. And today we have the No BS Herbalist Amelia South on the show. So, Amelia, how are you doing? I am doing, I want to say great, but I had the flu last week. So now I sound a little bit nasally and mucousy. And I'm desperately trying to get rid of that with some herbal tea right now. So hopefully that you guys could forgive me if I sound a little weird today. But yeah, you definitely sound good. It sounds great. Yeah. And you're getting better. So you're getting better. That's good. And what's in your tea cup? In my tea cup right now is ground ivy, bee bomb. What else did I put in here? I usually put some echinacea, but I didn't today. Some marshmallow leaves, one big dried mullin leaf for reasons.

2:08Yeah. And I threw a couple of rose petals in there too, just for roses and geese. Yeah. Love that. Sounds like a good, a good kappa. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, the bee bomb is really breaking up the mucous right now. So I get to blow my nose in the middle of a podcast. Of that. That is, that's a great, I love that plant. Yeah. It smells and tastes so good. And I think people are like, oh yeah, I use that instead of oregano. And I'm like, I just love it in tea because it just, it opens up your sinuses so well. Plus it's a weed and it grows everywhere. I planted that on purpose once and it's spread in like all of my gardens. I'm like, you. But so, you know, might as well make, make, make do. Yeah. Yeah, but it's also like one of the few plants I see the hummingbird moths on. Oh, yeah, they love it. And they're so cool to look at. I love those. They're my favorite. Yeah. Yeah. Probably except for Luna Moths.

3:08Yeah. Yeah. It's a great, and you only need a little bit of the, of the, of the, of the. Oh, yeah. I put like two, maybe three flower heads in here and a bunch of ground. I, because ground ivy is awesome for mucus too, but, um, that's why that's like. Exactly. When I think it's David Winston says the worst weeds are your best friends, right? And I repeat that all the time to people and like the weeds in your backyard. That's. And it's, it blows people's minds. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we do have a traditional first question on the, on the plant cutting podcast. And it's how did you come to the plant path? So, um, long story short. I'll just try to shorten it. Probably when my daughter was born in 2009. She was like colloquy after, you know, two weeks, two and a half weeks old, started to get colloquy. I had no idea what I was doing with my first child. And, um, everybody says you, there's nothing safe. You can give a baby. No safe.

4:08Um, medications. Nothing. They, they just say, cuff it out, deal with it. Um, and I had, um, Aviva Roms, one of Aviva Roms books that somebody had given me. And I was like, huh, okay. So what do you do for colloquy, baby? Can't be meal tea. So I had some like. Keep asking me to be in the cupboard and I brewed that up. And I gave her some and it actually helped her calm down. It helped her stomach. It helped her calm down. It's like holy crap. This worked. And then like a month or two later. She had, um, really bad gas. So I ended up getting some gripe water, which I think it's kind of like fennel and catnip and stuff like that in it. Um, and I gave her that and it worked. And I'm like instant convert. Now I started looking out for plants and started, um, because I'd already. I'd started foraging and stuff and in like 2006, like wild foods. Um, but now I was like interested in the medicinal stuff. I finally started to turn things around. And, um, that was like the real like beginning. And then around 2017, 2018, somewhere in there.

5:10Um, I was like, I was basically like losing my health insurance and at the same time. Um, working for a greenhouse a nursery. Um, and I listened to some random. I don't remember what the heck it was. Some random podcast was like, oh my god, you can be an herbalist. That's the coolest thing ever. And immediately just dove my entire life changed. I started taking like every free class I could and then I exhausted those. So I started paying for classes. Whatever I could afford, which was not a lot of the time. Um, eventually when I was, you know, the insurance was gone. I, I said, all right, I can either pay, you know, this 500 bucks for this class. Or I can attempt to pay $500 a month for this crappy insurance that isn't going to work anyway. And it was, I thank God it was only like a year. I had to go like that. But I learned herbalism so that I wouldn't have to be so freaked out about not being able to go to the doctor for a while. Um, and it, again, exploded from there.

6:10I was also really into incense, incense crafting. So I did the whole Northwest School of Aromatic Medicine with Evan Celiassin. I've done like all of his programs. So he's great. That's how I like really started. Um, with herbal education. And then I got into the heart of herbs. And yeah, so I've been. Obviously every, every good herbalist is always learning. And I've got like, you know, 50 books on my shelf and, uh, listening, listening to podcasts and listening to audiobooks. And I'm still in a couple of herbal education programs. I started teaching foraging back in like 2020. And it wasn't like because of COVID. It just happened to be that, um, like. Uh, that's some, that was the time that somebody told me, hey, you're really good at this stuff. Maybe you should teach a class. I was like, okay, let's do it. Why not? And I started walking around. Uh, my, my friend had a farm and I said, let's do a class here.

7:11I ended up with like 28 people showed up to this class. It was enormous. Um, but we walked around and I was, I'm like, look at this weed. Look at this weed. Look at this. This stuff is everywhere. And this stuff is everywhere. But this is what you can do with it. And I was just, everybody's, their minds were blown. And I'm like, I've been doing this for a long time now. Just trying to survive. But then I got to the point where I'm like, I can actually do this for a living. Can't I? And so I've been doing this. My business for a living since 2023. I just, like, I stopped farming. Um, because I was, I was a farmer for almost, for 10 years. Uh, far, very, very experienced farm labor. Uh, but then farm manager after that. And, um, that year, I just, they didn't invite me to come back. And I said, I have to do something. And I threw everything into my business. And, uh, social media helped a lot. Uh, and now all the algorithms have been changing. And it's a little bit more difficult to get out there with the social media.

8:14But I still, you know, make content every day and talk with people. And yeah, I love, I love teaching foraging walks. That's like, that's my heart, happy jam, you know, watching people. Like step out their back door and all this stuff. They've been walking on. I'll be like, wait, wait, wait, taste it. And they're like, what the hell are you talking about? And I may, I make them taste like some ground ivy. Or I give them the talk about, uh, dandelion being, um, a bitter. And what do you need bitters for? And I just, I love blowing people's minds. I love it. I love seeing that. So, um, yeah. That's part of what I do. I'm like, I think I'm the only person in Connecticut that does that. Um, there's definitely other foraging instructors here. Uh, but I'm, I'm, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that like goes to your house. And shows you what's in your own backyard. And I did, I started doing that because I was like, I was teaching group classes. But like a million people can come, you know, you all come to this one place at a park or whatever. And you're learning or you're writing notes. And then you go home and you forget half of what you looked.

9:17Because it wasn't anything that's, you think is relevant. It's not in your backyard. Whereas if I come to you, you're like, I'm seeing this every day. I'm walking out in my backyard every single day. Amelia said this plant is over by the wood pile, right? Oh, yeah, there it is. I can find it and I can pick it. Now I know what to do with it because I take them in their kitchen. And I show them how to cook with it and how to make medicine with it. So that's a whole production. Yeah, it's really fun. I love doing it. I think, yeah, I think that's really awesome. Because it helps also people get in touch with their immediate ecosystem. Oh, yeah. The land you're on is trying to heal you, you know, is trying to save you basically. Yeah, I see that so much herbs popping up for, of course. And my friends that need the certain herbs, like, you know, you move somewhere and all of a sudden they're small and growing everywhere, you know. And you have it. And then people are like, oh, my gosh, it's so invasive. It's so invasive. I'm like, no, actually, it's remediating your soil into there because you've got all this lymphatic issue going on. And you've got this cough.

10:17And yeah, exactly. Oh, really? And as an herbalist, you can talk to the people about their own health issues. And then, you know, when they have a cough, they can go out to the wood pile and find that mullin plant. You know, like exactly. Are you kind of modify it to the family's needs, you know? Yeah, well, that's why I always start with the foraging walk first. We walk around. I see what they have. And that's why it's like. I'm like proving myself to them at the same time because I'm like, you damn well, no, I know what I'm talking about because I'm showing you what's in your, I've never been to your house before. Like I know. I don't know you. I don't know what's in your house. Oh, look, you have this giant patch of ground ivy in your yard. I bet somebody in the house has a mucus problem. And they're like, holy crap. Yes, I do. Yeah. Your yard is trying to heal you. So it always, it's, it's like a mind blow and it's fantastic doing it. Yeah, that's interesting.

11:17Diagnosis. Diagnosis by, uh, by yard yard. Yes. Well, that's why I ask. I always ask like, how long have you lived in the house? Yeah. I've been there for over six months and most people have been there for years, you know. But if it's at least over six months, then the plants have started to find you, you know, at that point. Yeah, I've had like one or two people say, oh, we just bought this house last year. So I'm like, well, there's probably still some stuff in there from the old owner, you know, in the yard that was healing the owner before you, but. I guarantee there's a lot of stuff here that's that's showing up for you this year. Wow. Yeah, that's such a cool. I love it. So anyway, yeah, that's my long window. Wild foods and things. Are you wearing Tremades versus color earrings? Yeah, I made them. Oh my god, I love them. Yeah, that's beautiful. You see? Yeah. Turkey tail earrings. Yep. Yep. That's why I'm using my forager earrings. I got my forager earrings on.

12:17My taproot threads. T-shirt and tank top. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See. So, um, for when you're talking about wild foods and making wild food recipes, um, before we came on the show, you also said that you just wrote a new book about wild foods and it's a cookbook. Yep. I cook book. You see this. I love your thing. That's just so exciting that you got that not for resale because it's a rant. It's the proof copy that just came in. This literally just got released a couple days ago. It's wild wild crafted eats hardcover. I know it's not super duper thick, but that's okay. Right. So it's it's not like not every single recipe is is forged. Um, but there are there's a guide in here and like the most common weeds you're going to find in your yard. And a lot of the recipes in here, like the majority of them have either forged foods or something that's, you know, wild things that you're going to you're going to want to pick from your yard.

13:19And I am so freaking proud of this. It looks so good. Um, And yeah, it's I wanted to do a hard hard back because of everybody's like, well, you need something that's going to weigh it down for when you want to open it up and cook in your kitchen, right? Yeah. I just thought your bone broth. Oh, yeah. It's sort of like winter time. It's not the best time to wild forage, but it is a really good time to make some bone broth. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And then save it. Freeze it. Always, you know, keep it. Keep it on hand with a whole chapter and a couple of, yeah, a couple different kinds of bone broth. So why why bone broth and, you know, what are some tips for making it that you found? Um, so bone broth is amazing at helping heal leaky gut. Um, so, and a lot of people have leaky gut issues. Uh, it'll reduce inflammation overall. It's, um, really nutritive. So a really deep, nutritious thing, especially to have in the winter time. Um, let's see the tips.

14:21The number one thing you want to remember if you're going to make bone broth is you need to add some apple cider vinegar. Because that's what it's going to extract, help extract the minerals from the bones. Um, the other tip that I usually tell people, um, is if you want like to, to make it a really nice flavor is roast your bones first. Uh, you know, roast them for like half an hour in the oven. Um, and it doesn't cook them fully or anything. It's just, it adds a nice little roasted flavor to the bone. Um, and I tend to throw whatever I've got. Um, like if I've got extra mushroom, you know, wild crafted mushrooms on my shelf. I'll throw some of those in. If I had some as stragglers, I'll throw some of that in. Um, I sometimes I'll throw in some, um, uh, calendula blossoms, just because, you know, why not lymphatic. Let's, let's add some lymphatic herbs in there. If there's anything not, you know, bring that signature of the full summer, calendula flower, like, yeah, solar energy into the, the bone broth, get the lymph moving.

15:21Exactly. Yeah. And if there's anything not dead outside, like, yes, time or rosemary or something. Yeah. Sometimes you can still get some sage leaves hanging on. Congratulations on those throw those in. Yeah. Yeah. That's my, my bone broth deal. Yeah, I like the roasting, especially for like the, the, I mean, you kind of have to do it for, um, the bovine bone. Yeah. Yeah. They're better like the poultry. Like it really gives us such a great flavor. You know, like it caramelizes the fats a little bit. Yeah. Well, if you've ever get a, um, venison bones too, that's, yeah. I always want to roast those because I like, if I'm just going to sit and sip on broth, like, as a drink instead, instead of tea, I usually prefer the flavor of like the beef bone broth over the chicken. Um, but chicken's not bad by any means. So, um, it's more mild, but I think of a flavor. I like the turkey turkey.

16:22Oh, yeah. Most Thanksgiving turkey bone broth. So I did learn something. I learned this the hard way last week about bone broth. Uh, I'm used to, uh, with like chicken or turkey or whatever, like all. Pick as much meat as I can off of the carcass after I roasted it. And then I use the carcass and I put that in and I, I make my bone broth with that. Um, and apparently. Like as good as that is as a, like to cook with or, you know, put pasta or rice or whatever you want to do. Um, make a soup with that. Uh, I had done basically like a one day broth fast. So I was just drinking broth all day, trying to just clear myself out to do a good thing for one day. And it got to be around like four or five o'clock in the afternoon. And I'm like starving. And I started like shaking. I'm like, what the heck is going on? Well, a friend of mine, um, a nurse friend of mine who also is a god hell of expert.

17:24I called her up. I said, what is going on? I'm like, I'm having the bone broth and she said, well, how do you cook it? And I told her, I said, I do like the roasted, um, the carcass or whatever. And she says, that's why she says, if you want to replace like a meal replacement kind of thing, you have to put meat in there. Like full on like chunks of chicken. Because otherwise you're not getting enough fat or protein. It's not like reaching out into the broth. You're just doing the bones and whatever little bits of meat are on there. Oh, that makes a lot of sense now. You know, because you want to hire fat content because your body's going to survive off that fat going through your body. So yeah, that's how I'm certain to do it. I made another batch. I was like, if I'm going to do this again. I'm going to do. I'm going to do it right. And I just bought like a pack of chicken thighs and made the whole whole back, but just straight up chicken thighs. Chicken thighs will go off that. Yes, exactly. And they taste good. And it's like I could just eat the meat, you know, off of it and then drink the broth for the fruit. So that's some really good tip. That's my only problem with the the venison broth though is that the venison fat.

18:28I just like there's like none. But I also don't like it. It's like even a little bit of venison fat is just like. Yeah. I haven't honestly had much venison fat. I've had venison plenty of times, but not there was like hardly any fat on it. Yeah. But it's this weird. It's like it's hard really quickly. You know, like, let's be their diet. I'm sure, you know, yeah. It's just, I don't know. That's my that's my only qualms. Like sometimes sometimes it's nice to just sip the bone broth, but you can. If you're rice and you can you put it in soup. Yeah. Like a meat. Oh, exactly. And that's why I said, like, I've got all this broth in my freezer. I'm like, what am I going to do? Oh, I'll just make soup with it. You know, it's fine. I'll just use it as a broth as a base for stuff. Right. It's not that it's bad. It's just if it's not high protein high fat, like what you would want to be putting in your body. If you were going to do a broth fast all day, you know, yeah. So that's just something to remember because I was I was thinking like, you know, you have one of those days in like February or March.

19:30And you're like crap. Summer's going to be here. I look fat. What do I do? I just do a fast one day, but I don't want to starve myself completely. Oh, broth. I'll drink broth all day. That'll be healthy. Right. Just do it right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so for that time of year, like February, March, when things are starting to come out in. What are you most looking forward to foraging? Like what do you look for us? Some of the first plants that are coming. Oh, cleavers. Yes. Cleavers. Because you can usually find cleavers in like March. There's there's starting to come up and love. I like to I've started like wanting to eat cleavers, which is weird because they're fuzzy. And it's not always the most pleasant thing, but like I just like the flavor. I like it. It sounds it's so good. I make cleavers juice. So I like I just I juice them. And then I freeze them. And I've got a big bag of like frozen cleavers ice cubes that got me through the flu. You know, just melt a few ice cubes, drink that up.

20:32That's good stuff. Yeah. Cleavers. That's a good idea to freeze them. Exactly. That's why I tell people I'm like, well, because cleavers don't really work when they're dried. No. I did that. I made that mistake the first year ever of like foraging like, oh, this I finally recognize cleavers. I finally got them. Yay. And I dehydrated a bunch of them. And they were like garbage in a month. I'm like, yeah. What did I do? And it's just cleavers don't last. That's all it is. That's all it's just. It's just a little bit of, uh, garlic mustard. Actually, I found some garlic mustard yesterday. It's already coming out because it's it's invasive, but it's it's it's there. Um, like it, but it's cool. It's good. It's tasty. It's tasty. It's tastier in like that winter almost spring. Super fresh. If I'm going to eat garlic mustard, I'd prefer to eat it in the winter. Yeah. Yeah, that's the same because like I had some yesterday on a walk. I was like, oh, hey, look garlic mustard is already coming up in January might as well, and it's so much more mild. It's not like, yeah, horribly.

21:38Um, spicy, not that I mean, I'm the kind of person that eats raw garlic. But it's different doing the garlic mustard because there's just that weird mustardy. Yeah. Yeah. Um, oh, God, what else comes up, violets will be coming up pretty soon, but like the leaves usually. Um, so that's there's there's a lot of fun for the mull and starts waking up again. Yeah. You know, in spring. I don't know if you ever noticed that like I've been noted, I have a bunch of it growing around my yard. So like it kind of closes in on itself. When it gets cold, it's so cool because you know, if you look at mull and get the tiny little. Leaves in the center, the cute little fuzzy ones. And the outer leaves, the very, very outer leaves just kind of crisp up and dry, but then the middle stuff comes up and curls in like a blanket over the baby leaves in the middle. And then, and then when it warms up, it opens up again. It's so freaking cool. I love looking at that. It's so sweet. It's a good strategy. Yeah.

22:38Yeah, stay warm, right? Yeah. And then those bigger leaves dying and getting crisps up or like creating a weed barrier around it, you know, and like. Yeah. Yeah. And fertilizing and whatnot. So exactly. So, um, you've, you've got this book. You sent us this book and this is very. It's a good, it's a good book. It's a, it's like an herbalist. Yes. Very practical and down to earth and no BS. Thank you. But I, but I wonder, you know, just. First off, like, how, how do you think like an herbalist? What? The whole, the whole point of that book. The book was written not necessarily for other herbalists because it's. Somebody that's been a practicing herbalist for years and years would read my book and probably maybe they'd see something that they hadn't heard before because, you know, we can all learn from each other. But most of them are going to look at it and say, I already know all this stuff. But if you think about it, your clients probably don't.

23:39Yeah. Your clients who aren't really into herbalism haven't been studying this stuff for a long time. They don't always get it, which is why they come to you or they go to their doctor. I need somebody to explain this stuff to them. And I just found after, you know, years of, of helping people that. People just don't know normal people that aren't already herbalists just don't know this stuff. And I said, what's what would I wish I had known when I was like 20, 22, 23 years old when I went out into the world? What is all the stuff I wish I'd known about my life, my body? What is all these things that could happen? And then how do I deal with it? And I started writing. And I started writing this book to myself in my 20s. And I'm thinking other girls that are just out of college or whatever going out into the world. That don't know what to expect. Can get something out of this for sure. I've got stuff in there for men and, you know, older people to this, it's for everybody.

24:43It's written for the kind of person that is very interested in learning about natural methods and, you know, herbal medicine type stuff. But they don't really want to become an herbalist necessarily. Yeah. Like, I want to understand my body. I want to know how to start figuring out remedies. But I don't need to study for seven years like this person or, you know, four years like this person or whatever. I just want to know enough to get it. And I, I do say I, I've got a good skill. And that is explaining stuff in a way normal people can understand. Like I'm good at making comparisons like that. But also, I want you to think about instead of like, hey, I've got this symptom. What herbs can I take for these symptoms? That's always the first thought people have. I've got these bad symptoms. What can I take for these symptoms? I want you to stop thinking like that. I want you to start thinking. I've got these symptoms.

25:43What's causing these symptoms to happen? Yeah. You know, and that's why that's what I'm trying to get across in this book instead of just. Oh, well, you could take this herb for this, this herb for that, this herb for that. Or this group of verbs for this or this group of verbs for that. What is possibly the underlying cause of those symptoms that that's what I should be focusing on? Because as much as I love herbs and we all love herbs, herbs aren't always the answer. You know, sometimes it's food, sometimes it's nutrition, sometimes it's the deficiency of mineral deficiency or something. And I want people to understand, oh crap. Now I get it. Now I see where I was going wrong with that. And it's like the herbs can help. And the herbs are absolutely going to be part of your solution if you're doing the natural method. But like I want you to get the foundation first. Yeah. Yeah. So that's I think like an herbalist. It's like, I think so anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I think that's a great framework for people who are getting started on like learning about herbs to be kind of reframing how the Western medical system has operated.

26:51Yeah. We're raised with like this pill will do this for this symptom. You know, that's exactly yet. And then they end up with extra symptoms because there's side effects to all those pills. And it's like, and I explain that in the book. I'm like, I'm not saying that medication is bad. Like all medication is bad by any means. I'm not saying antibiotics bad all this other stuff. Like sometimes you do need a doctor. Sometimes you do need medication. But most people do not need to be on 15, 20 different medications. They really don't. And that's what I'm trying to say. Like once you get that this is the foundation of good health. And it's so it's so easy. Once you understand it, then you start working on that. And all of a sudden, you don't need this one. You don't need that one. You don't need this other medication. Maybe you still need one or two. If there's a specific problem from an injury or whatever it is. Um, you know, I'm not going to. I'm not sitting here telling everybody stop taking your heart meds or anything like that. I would never do that. But it's like, you probably don't need.

27:51A lot of this stuff that you're on. Once you heal a lot. Once you heal the root of your body. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that is, I think, a really good thing about this book too. And the way you're, what you're thinking is very. Down to earth and common sense. And there's not always common sense. People like they have a, they're raised on a standard American diet. Or they're used to thinking about things in terms of like the doctor or mechanic model, you know. Um, but. And then they go off into a far, far end on some like very extreme version of, of something, you know, especially with social media these days. Oh, yes. Everything's a parasite cleanse right now. Right. I mean, and. That's not say you shouldn't, you know, take your wormwood and so on and. Yeah. But, but it's like. It's, it's easy to get, get sucked into an extreme or a fundamentalist idea, something.

28:51But really like being healthy is fundamentally simple. It really is. It's just that there's so much conflicting information online. There's, there's like got to be at least a million people out there who are either a, you know, a doctor doing this or a. A health coach saying this and. I hate to say it like that because I'm kind of one of them, but at the same time, like that's why I, I wrote this and that's why the whole section, like the last, I don't know 30 pages in the back is like tons of resources. I'm citing all these resources. I, I did put the QR code thing in the back because I thought that was a good idea of like a few. Some of that's just like a YouTube video that I made about a certain thing like here you can watch it now. Um, you don't have to go searching for it. It's right there. Yeah, but it is easy for people to like get sucked into with all the conflicting information, like go be a raw vegan raw vegan is the only thing where like be a carnivore. You should only eat and, and nothing else.

29:51You know, and there's maybe some people should be doing that. Maybe for a certain period of time for a certain period of time. That's the thing I get people asking me that all the time. Like I go live on TikTok and people will, oh, what do you think a carnivore? Like I think if you feel like that's a good option for you to do right now, then go for it. But don't do it more than like maybe two months, like that's like the limit. I get I see people saying, oh, I've been a carnivore for four years. I'm like, how the hell are you alive? Seriously. You need vegetable. Like, I don't even understand. I don't feel the same way for these are so resilient. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like having a middle ground, having a common sense middle ground. And part of that middle ground is sometimes you do a cleanse or a fast. Yeah. You know, you do that as part of your main health maintenance. But people get, I think it's just such a hard thing to do for a lot of people that they have to adopt a dogmatic zealous mindset in order to be able to do it.

30:52You know what I mean? That's, and that's where the psychology comes in. Yeah. Which I actually do know a lot about that too. But it's, it's all about your own mental programming and what you think is normal. What you've come to believe. You know what your environment has trained you to believe or expect. And you, there are ways around that. Like if you, if somebody comes to me and says, I can't stop overeating. I have this problem. I can't, I just, every time I feel stressed out and I just go eat an entire box of Oreos or whatever. And it's the only way I can cope. And I'm like, all right. So I start working, working with them, trying to figure out what's at the root of this problem. And you know, because anxiety and depression and all these other things, they're, they're symptoms. They're not the problem. Like what is the problem with the first step to resolving any problem is to properly identify the problem. And a lot of times it's, it goes way, way deep down.

31:54And most of the time it's way deep down to something that you learned in childhood. Or some experience that you happened to experience during childhood. Those are your formative years, you know. So that's it. Sorry to move into a different slightly different part of the conversation. Well, there is, there's this feedback loop to, you know, you have you. Certain things experiences may happen when you're a child. Then you have the certain mindset and then it affects the way you eat. And then your gut gets to a certain way and then your gut affects your brain. Yeah, exactly. It's a feedback loop. Exactly. Because the gut brain connection as soon as people start like actually realize Holy crap. What's going on in my gut is affecting my brain. Like that's step one. I'm like, Heck yeah, you're doing great. The fact that you just realized that is step one. And then you can realize, oh, maybe I should start working on my gut health. That's absolutely part of healing all the mental stuff that's going on. You know, the first easiest part that you can do if you've got like mental

32:55emotional spiritual stuff going on up here is to heal the physical body. Because it's, it's faster and easier, honestly, to heal your gut. Then it is to heal things up here. It takes a lot longer to heal things up here. So. Yeah. And so I think like looking on your on your TikTok, one of your biggest videos was this, um, the cabbage. Yeah. My ulcer video. Yeah. And then that's a really, it's really potent wave of one way of healing some gut conditions. Yeah. While it was, it was an ulcer like that. And I thought I think I had to re record it because the first time I recorded it, I swore a bunch of everybody was like, no, no, no, that's not professional. Re-recorded. So I did. Uh, but yeah, I had an ulcer in 2012, uh, say 2016. I got an ulcer and they put me on a mepazole and I didn't know. I mean, that, I got like 14 side effects from that was ridiculous. Um, they, they had me do an endoscopy. They had all this, all this drug stuff. They were given me the stuff to numb my stomach.

33:57And I was just so over it. And I think I found, I found something on either Pinterest or somewhere on the internet. Something about cabbage. And I'm like, I'm going to try this. And so I ended up curing my stomach ulcer in like three days with a $2 cabbage. Wow. The doctors couldn't do, the doctors could not do it. They didn't know. And then they finally, they were like, ah, yeah, you're fine. Go away. And I'm like, I took care of the problem myself with a natural remedy. And that's just yet another, you know, pin in the, well, I guess I better be doing this. I had already started dabbling in all kinds of things by then, but I shared that. And that's worked for like, I think that video has like two million, three million views or something like that. And, and so many people keep coming back going, this worked for me. Holy crap. This worked. This worked. I'm like, yeah, because it works. The cabbage and drinking it. Like, what's the protocol? Oh, yeah. So you take a green, I think it works better with a green cabbage.

34:59It doesn't really matter. But take a green cabbage, uh, chop it up, stick it in a blender with some water so that it'll blend, blend the love and crap out of it. And pour that into like a canning jar or something, uh, and put like a, like a piece of key shirt or some kind of cloth over the top with a rubber band. So that air can get in, but bugs can't get in. And you just let that ferment on your counter. No salt, no nothing. Just let that sit on your countertop for three days, maybe four, depending on how cold your house is. Um, and then you can, you, you can eat it like that if you want. It's not tasty. It kind of smells like fart water. It's really, like, not the nicest thing. But like, I usually say, just strain it out and, and save that water. And then you drink like maybe two ounces of that water, like three times a day until it's gone. And that's it. You also at the, you know, at the same time while you're healing, I say, you know, don't drink a bunch of soda. Don't be drinking alcohol while you're trying to heal yourself.

36:00Yeah. Just just focused and you can eat like normal, but do your best to eat healthy. If you can for a couple of days while you're drinking the cabbage water and it's, it goes in there and it heals. It heals it up. So it's amazing. That's wonderful. Yeah. The cabbage is such an amazing healing herb. And people don't really realize that often. But like a pepper like it's cabbage is, is there and it's for stomach issues. You know, it's, it's a moon and cancer herb. It's the, the healing soothing to the stomach. Yeah. It's like, it's a, it's a, it's a foundational food as medicine. Yeah. Absolutely. Cabbage and garlic, right? Yes. So much stuff. Life can be cured with cabbage and garlic. Right. So. So what other important tips do you have for healing the gut and like making sure you have a healthy gut? Well, um, much as people don't like the idea of it, uh, stopping drinking alcohol really makes a big difference.

37:02Because you can be doing, um, you can be doing your cleanse or eating the special foods and taking the special supplements and all that stuff. Um, and you work in so hard at this for a month or two, then you go out with your friends one day and have, you know, four or five drinks and you literally just sent a wave of death through your entire digestive tract and killed all the good bacteria that you built up and you have to start over again. So, um, stopping drinking, even if it's like for a while. Yeah. Um, it's a really big part of healing your gut, um, and to be fair, the majority of people that I've spoken with who finally did stopped because I used to be an alcoholic. So I understand completely. But, um, the majority of people that I've spoken with who finally did with alcohol, they're like within a week or two, they're like, holy crap, I feel amazing. And when you finally heal your gut and you've stopped poisoning your body like that, it's, it's, it's like in epiphany, why would I want to feel like garbage.

38:10Um, just, just for a couple of hours of what I perceive right now is fun, you know, to, it's, it's so much nicer to not feel like crap. I just, I just feel in general, like most people want to not feel like crap. That's the basis of feeling, you know, I want to feel good. As, when I was a young hedonist, um, there was a certain point where, where I felt in terms of my own pleasure, the, uh, the outcome, you know, the effect of drinking so much alcohol was, was not worth it in terms of my overall pleasure. Exactly. Yeah, like there's so many other things you can do that are fun, especially, you know, and there's, um, you're basically people, people drink like that because they're, they're getting over their inhibitions, right. All of their inhibitions, which is like, this is this again, I'm going to go into a little psychology here. You're, you're knocking out your internal parent so that your internal child can come out and play and have fun or sometimes, especially with women, you're inter, like your sexual side that's been repressed all the time because of society can come out and play, which is, you know, it ends up not ending well for a lot of women, but that's, that's one thing that happens when they're drinking.

39:30Um, and because that's just the alcohol kills it and the addiction part happens when you're like, that's the only way I can feel these things. The only way I can feel free, the only way I can, I can let myself go is by sucking down so much alcohol or smoking so much of whatever this is or whatever this other drug is and that's, that's how people end up with the addiction. Um, whereas the true key to feeling good all the time is to be able to get past that and heal the parts of you physically, mentally and emotionally that are going to let you let you feel good all the time. So you don't need a substance and that that's just that is the most difficult thing to get people to, to want to do once you want to do it, there are definitely ways, but yeah. Well, there are all these internal, these patterns and that are, you know, the addiction is from something inside happening and it's hard to like if somebody, it's hard to get their gut healthy if they compulsively eat things that are not good for their gut and, you know, they keep doing that because there, there's unresolved issues.

40:47Yeah, in their, in their mental body or their, you know, their, their, their, their psyche. Yeah, so what is your experience with that end of, of healing, because that is, that's a very, you know, they're both the physical and the mental are, you know, it's all healing. That's the thing, like everything I do is healing on some level. It's just that you're absolutely right people are like, well, I don't immediately, I don't think like my stomach hurts and I have mental problems. I mean, that's not what people think and it's like sometimes that is the case. So I, I always end up starting to explain like the subconscious mind and how 95% of everything you do every day is run by your subconscious mind, your subconscious programming and one of the things that I do like through a consultation and through some, I actually do touch on this in my book.

41:47Is addressing addressing that addressing the fact that some little guy back here is running the show for you and consciously, you're not thinking about that consciously, you know, Joe's thinking I want to lose some weight, but subconsciously his, his inner child is like, but I only, you know, I need cookies or I can't feel good about myself. You know, and then use like, okay, so how do we get in there and heal that heal that relationship and obviously the first step to that is acknowledging that it exists acknowledging that there is something there that's basically controlling you and it's not a parasite. I mean, it depends on how you define the term, I guess. Well, yeah, but anyway, that's what my next book is all about not parasites, but the whole the mental health thing. So, but you need to be able to address the subconscious programming that's deep within yourself to start wanting and start, start being able to be successful at healing all these patterns that keep, keep you in the place you're at, keep you.

42:59You know, eating the wrong foods or not, not. When I'm just trying away from the habits that would actually heal those parts of you, you know, stop running away from the problem. Yeah, so how do you help clients to figure out what those, what the little voices in the back of their had their, their inner child are is it like in your consultation, you, you help like it's, it depends, it depends. I actually recently, because, because I can do this, I used to be very, very excited that I could do this for absolutely everybody. And then I had to realize that not absolutely everybody wants this. So, I have, I have my intake form, you know, if somebody wants a consultation and a very important question that I recently added to my intake form is, well, there's three questions. The first question that's, that's important is how, how do you want me to help you?

44:01And the options are physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, I think, and sexually on there. And then another question I just recently added is, what are you willing to do to get the results that you want? And the second one after that is, what are you not willing to do? And it sounds so simple, but there are a lot of people that just don't want. I'm trying to think of a good example. Somebody says, like, I've got, I've got, got problems. I've got all these horrible things keep happening to me over and over again. And then when we do our consultation, we talk and it turns out that like they absolutely hate their job, they hate what they're doing for a living. It's literally like just slowly killing them. Yes. And so my thought as the healer would be, and I don't always say it right away, but it's like my, my, my mind's going, well, let's find you a different job.

45:01You know, or start a business or do literally anything other than this thing that you're forcing yourself to do every day that's killing you. But then, you know, I, I start asking questions and I, it turns out, oh, no, no, that's the one thing I will not do. Yeah. This is, this is the thing that is the biggest problem in my life. But the one thing I won't do is stop doing the thing that's the biggest problem in my life. And it's like, how can I help you if you're not willing to do that? So that's why it was very important for me to add those questions into my intake form. I hope this, I hope to God, this helps somebody else that's an herbalist doing consultations because you really have to know what somebody is willing to do. And most herbalists are just thinking about, oh, I need, you know, compliance. It's, I have to make my herbal formula taste good. And yeah, absolutely. That's part of it. But you got to know what they're willing to do. If they're not willing to even make a cup of tea every day, yeah, it's not going to help.

46:04If they don't want to keep the tincture bottle in their pocketbook or whatever, it's not going to help. Sometimes herbs are just going to be like, even if you can get them to take it, the herbs are just going to kind of take the edge off their problem. You're not solving the actual problem, right? That's why it takes a lot of investigative work to figure what is the actual problem. And that's what, that's, that's my next step in what I do is figuring out what's the problem. Like I can do all kinds of herbs and stuff with you. But it's, it's going to be neither managing symptoms or some, some herbs are actually going to help resolve certain health problems, physical health problems. But if your problems are way deep in here or in here, you know, there aren't a lot of herbs that are going to solve that fix it. So what does without giving everything I do away. Really, this, this week, my next book is going to be finished writing and I'm working on getting it published.

47:10And it is all about the subconscious mind and healing the subconscious mind, because that, that is it. That is it healing and reprogramming, rewiring all these beliefs that you've held since childhood. And it's not just, you know, let me, let me think of something that, that people would, would imagine like, oh yeah, I'm a kid. Maybe that Uncle Louis has a great time eating cake, so I think cake is the best thing ever. No, it's, it's deeper than that. You're like, I'm talking about like you're three years old and it just imagine your girl, you're three years old. You're, you're walking into the bathroom. You see your mom looking at herself in the mirror in the bathroom. And she's picking herself apart. She's saying, oh my god, I've got, I've got hair. She wrinkles here. She's looking at the fat on her hip. This is horrible. I got to get rid of this and just hating on herself. Right. There's, there's a difference between somebody saying, oh yeah, I should probably lose five pounds. I gained a little bit over wintertime versus absolutely loathing themselves in the mirror.

48:18I hate everything about the way I look. This isn't good. This isn't right. This isn't perfect. You know, and that literally you just were programmed just then to hate yourself. Oh, I'm a little girl. Mom looks in the mirror and picks herself apart. Mom looks in the mirror and doesn't like what she sees. So that's how I should act. So every time I look in the mirror, I'm not going to like what I'm never going to be perfect. I'm never going to be good enough because you just program. And parents don't do this to their kids on purpose. Right. Nobody, nobody screws up their kids big time on purpose. It just happens because they are a product of what their parents did to them and what their parents did to them. It's a long cycle. And basically what I keep looking for is the person who's ready to finally break that cycle. And not everybody is. And that's okay. It's totally I'm still willing to help people. I can help people with their physical problems all kinds of you know that's where the herbalism is fantastic.

49:18But when I finally get that that client that says I'm done living this way, I am so sick of having all these horrible beliefs. I'm so sick of having all this anxiety and just all this other crap that's going on with them. I'm like, all right, what are you willing to do? What are you not willing to do? Because we can fix this. Yeah. It gets really deep into subconscious mind and you're reprogramming all your all your beliefs that you've had forever. You basically turn into a completely different person. The person that you were actually meant to be before your parents grew up. Yeah. And just asking what are you willing to give up and what are you not willing to give up is a confrontational question. Yeah, but you can't not say it. You have to be in a good way. I mean, it forces somebody to think to think about that. And I think a lot of for a lot of people too, like they might on one level be willing to give up anything.

50:18But then on another level. Yep. Down to it. They're not actually able to give certain things up. That happens a lot. Yeah. I would do anything to heal myself. Well, will you dump her? Can you dump them? Exactly. Yeah. What can I do? I will do absolutely anything anything anything. And my husband's abusing me. I can't leave him. I'm not going to leave him. It's like, well, then you're not willing to do anything. Yeah. Because the one thing that's going to save you is the thing you're not willing to do. And that's, it's, you, you have to like not be judgmental about that. It's like, this is your life. This is your karma. You're dealing with your own stuff. I can offer. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a drink. You know, there was a magic bill. If there was a magic herb that would help you and you didn't want to take it. That's on you. I can tell you about it. But I can't force you to do it. It's the same with the behavioral stuff. You know, I can, I can recognize the problem that you're having. I can help talk you through it. I can, we can help, you know, eliminate that problem through some therapeutic methods.

51:24But if you don't want to, it doesn't matter. Like if you want to, if you say you want to quit smoking, but you're not willing to do anything to try to quit smoking. Yeah. It doesn't work, you know. But sometimes that might be able to restoling with that. What am I willing to give up? What am I not willing to give up? Can sometimes get to that the root of the problem? Because it's like with, even with like, like going on a, what is it called? The kind of diet where you elimination diet. You know, or in finding food sensitivities, like even for myself, I'm like, what do you, what, what food are you not willing to give up? And if it's like, you know, cheese or dairy or wheat or whatever. I have the same problem too, dude, man, you tell me I can't eat cookies for a month. That's what I'm doing right now. It sucks. Yeah. It's horrible. Like I'm a cookie monster. And like, even if I make them all myself, so they're super, super healthy, like grain free, you know, paleo cookies.

52:25They're like, no, you can't have that for a while because you're, you're doing a cleanse right? I'm like, I want my cookies. But you get, you know, thankfully, what I'm doing right now is temporary, but it's not always temporary. Sometimes something what you have to give up is something that is permanent. You have an allergy that's never really going to. Exactly. And with the mental stuff, sometimes what you have to give up is a person in your life. Yeah, or that job or the job. Yeah, exactly. I mean, if the person is like your mom, who is wholly toxic to you, it's like, well, you're going to have to spend all this time wrestling with. Well, I'm supposed to do this and I'm supposed to do that. And I, she's my mom and I was a blah, blah, versus no, she's toxic to your life and she doesn't respect you and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. I'm saying that for everybody, obviously, it's an example, but somebody can be that close to you. And when you finally accept that letting them letting that person or thing go is the way to go.

53:33And you finally sit like it's terrifying. It's terrifying for some most people, but you finally do it. You come out of that on the other side, you're like, holy crap, I feel amazing. This is so freeing. I don't have, I don't have this horrible feeling weighing on my mind constantly. I don't have this fear anymore. I don't have to worry about this because all I did, I cut them out of my life. I stopped talking to them or I, I changed to a different job. And I love this job now. This is fantastic. All that other stuff. Those people were mistreating me and I can see that now on the other side. Everything is clear, you know, but going through it is freaking terrifying. You know, I get it. Yeah, you need someone to talk with. And that's why I'm trying to help people, you know, that's I help people with that. Yeah, I mean, it is really terrifying because it's part of your identity and you're losing your identity. And then also for, for people like, like, say it is, is your mom, you know, it's one of the closest people in your life that she probably doesn't want you to, to stuff.

54:42Of course not. And she's going to call you and ask you and show her your door and all kinds of stuff. But no, if you can do it, if there are ways. And honestly, I'm a millennial. I don't know what you guys, I'm a millennial and there's a lot of millennials to stop talking to their parents. I didn't realize how toxic that shit was. But it's, it's happening more and more and it's, it's just so, I don't talk to my mother anymore. So, but it's, it's freeing. And it's, it's scary while you're going through it. But then like you, again, you come out on the other side. And you're basically like a new person because you're like, you're so unbothered by all the things that they used to be feeding into you all the time. Exactly. And it's like, I can be who I was always meant to be. I can finally blossom into this beautiful person that I always was. But I couldn't see it because this person or this thing was constantly, you know, putting me down or, or stopping me from seeing it.

55:44And now I'm a new beautiful person. It's, it's, it's one, it is the most mental health is the best drug there is. I am dead serious. Like nothing is better than finally loving yourself. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. So I'm just not herbalism, right? I'm thinking about it. Like, as from an herbalist perspective, like, yes, that is the ultimate goal is to like have somebody feel whole and complete and love themselves. Exactly. You know, the herbs can help us on our path. They can nourish us. They can line our gut lining. You know, they can, you know, they can calm you down. If you're super stressed out, there's all kinds of herbs that'll help you. You need to calm down. Yeah. Yes, it is like, we can make you, we can help you sleep better. But I'm just thinking about like on that path. It's like, that's not like a one and done consultation, right? Like, you're going to be working with somebody. That's, yeah, I, I have a really like a three month long program for something like that. That's really in depth. I do regular consultations too.

56:51But like, if I do a regular consultation with somebody and I figure out through working with them that they really would need this like, or it would benefit them, I will offer it to them. I don't, I, you can't force anybody to do anything. I can say, listen, I have this other program that takes several months, but it will really, really help you and help you come out on the other side. Do you want it? It's free. Obviously. So, you know, it is what it is. But if somebody wants it, great. If they, if they don't want it, they're not ready. That's totally fine. Like, I am, I am happy to give you whatever support you need. I can suggest herbs that will help manage this or, you know, take the edge off of whatever you're going through. And that's totally fine. If that's the path that you choose, just like if somebody chooses that they want the medication, that's fine. You know, I'm not here to judge you for that. It's just I want to make sure that I offer it.

57:51So people know it's there. It's an option, you know, and you don't, it's the kind of thing. It's always so hard to explain this because it's the kind of thing that you're not going to understand completely until or unless you've gone through it. And that's like, it's like, it's difficult for me to explain it without, like, as people are sitting here saying, like, this sounds nebulous. What the hell are you talking about? Like, no, it's like a total reset of just imagine yourself. Imagine the person you've always wanted to be. Like, the best version of yourself. They've got all the money they ever wanted. They absolutely love them. So they think they're the most beautiful thing in the world. They love and they trust themselves. The best relationship with another human being you could ever possibly imagine the most trustworthy and liking and loving. And that's what you become. You become that because the only person that's really out there that can give you 100% of what you need is you. Yeah.

59:01It's just unlocking that and letting her out, you know, letting them out, whatever. So, yeah, it's, I know, I hope I'm not getting into it too much existential weird shit here. Oh, I mean, this is the place for that. We're only really like a quarter on our podcasts. We like to get different. So areas of the psyche and the spirit and. Well, that's why I like I said my next book is going to be all about this. And I am so excited for that because that's that that next book that's coming out is going to change the world. And I know it is. Yeah, yeah. This is the level of confidence everybody wants, right? Yes. We want all the confidence, all the self love. Yes. Yeah, definitely. Well, it takes it, you know, you got to go through the valley to get there sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing.

1:00:02I'm going to, I'm going to sound like a negative Nancy for a second because there are probably millions of therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists that do not know what the hell they're doing. They don't know what they're doing. They don't know what they're talking about because yes, they're certified. Yes, they're licensed, but they've never gone through any of this shit. They've never gone through it themselves. They've learned about it. They've learned about it in books. They wrote papers about it, whatever they get all this like I know more than you and I can help you because I've got this degree. But they've never experienced any of the stuff that you're going through. So they literally there's no way they can possibly understand it. Yeah. And the only way that you're going to get help from like is from somebody that actually went through it and understands it at a level of like where you're at because they've been there. So I mean, and that's how many psychiatrists out there have had like a mental health disorder like none.

1:01:05No, they all went to school so that they could help people with this and and it's I'm not saying they're all bad people. You know, and I'm not saying all therapists suck or anything. I'm just saying that the vast majority of like I have I have literally never met one ever that knew what they were talking about. Yeah, because they just they they learned it. Go to school and learn something, but it's the same with herbalism. You know, you can you can go to herb school and learn all this stuff on the computer or in the book, but if you haven't ever drank an herbal tea or eaten an herb or you know rub this stuff on your skin. You don't know you don't know until you've experienced it and I swear to get like psychiatry or psychology is the whole it's the only place where you don't have to experience anything. Yeah, you can still get a degree you could still get a license and you don't have to experience anything you're still like better than everybody else, which is why I experience always trumps education. Yeah, I would I would a million times rather get the answer from somebody that's been through it.

1:02:07I don't care if they have a degree. I don't care if they're a doctorate or they've certified or licensed or whatever that crap is if they've got the answer that works. That's all that matters. To me anyway, you know, you're answering my question you're solving my problem. I don't care if you if your doctor so and so I just care that you solved my problem. I mean, the other thing is that for especially like psychiatry, I mean, I think a lot of it is just is prescribing medications, which. Oh, yeah, most of it actually there's no transformative. No, it's here's here's a drug that'll shut you up for a while. Yeah, let's lock you up and give you a bunch of drugs instead of looking at who you are or what caused this or what's going on. No, no, no, let's just give you a bunch of drugs and put you in this room and we'll forget you exist. Right, you know, and why like there's then that's one other goes back to. There's a lot of people on medications that don't need the medications because no one has ever bothered to look at them and try to help them solve the freaking problem.

1:03:14Right, and then there are also people who are on those medications that could. It's like they don't need to be, but in order for them not to be they'd have to go through some very uncomfortable therapy test. Yes, oh yeah, yeah. And then and they're not willing to do that. That's okay. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you're talking about to me also it's it reminds me a lot of like self inquiry in that process of. You know, you're digging into your what your beliefs about yourself and finding what's on true about them. Yeah, you kind of have to get into self help in order to start helping yourself. Goofy is that sounds right like you have to be into as I think most herbalists are technically like just the fact that we're herbalists were into self help because everybody wants to become an herbalist or wants to learn about herbalism to help themselves or to help others. Um, and that's I think I have a whole chapter about that and I think like an herbalist book that's about.

1:04:14Listen, if the person that you're trying to help. Doesn't want your help. You have to be willing to accept that. Yeah. Yeah. This and that's one of the hardest things you can do is an herbalist because I know people. The people used to come to be like, oh my god. I need to help my husband. He needs this. He needs this so bad. And like the or they'll buy something for me or they'll get a consultation that like all he needs this. He needs this. Turns out you talk to the husband. He doesn't want any initiative to do with it. He's like, I don't care. He wants to continue down the same path. If he wants to be self destructive. You have to accept that nothing you do or say is going to change that person. Yeah. Unless they decide that they want to change themselves. Yeah. It's it's a hard truth to accept. But like once you finally get over that, it's better for your own mental health. Yeah. To real to real. I'd like to say. I'm not going to worry about it. If that person suddenly changes their mind and they ask you for help, that's one thing.

1:05:15You know, but. I see so many people they're like, oh, my grandma. She's got this. She's got that she needs this herb. Can you help me get this herb for my grandma? I'm like. Ask your grandma. Does she even want to take an herb? Yeah. Is she going to do it? Like does she care? Because if grandma doesn't care, you're wasting your breath, you're wasting all your time and energy and. There's no reason to do that to yourself. Yeah. And it is. I mean, I, this is a lesson I had to learn the hard way. Obviously, you know, everybody has to, has to learn. I'm just trying to like. Expand the process by saying, it's okay. It's okay to feel this way. And it's okay to let those people go and do their own thing. You know. Yeah. Yeah. There's kind of like, well, so on one end. Healing, real healing requires the, the patient or the person being healed. To want it. Like, you know, there's the fire. Same thing with learning for like a teacher, you have a teacher and a student. The teacher is very important, but the student has to have his own fire or their own, you know.

1:06:18They're not going to learn. And so if somebody doesn't like ask to be helped, then. They're not even taking that first step. There's no, there's no reason. But then there's something with the person who wants that person. Like, there's some kind of like. Some. Attachment. Of, of wanting to like, force that person to be helped by you. Yeah. You know what's better. And you know what's. You know, and it happens all the time. I'm sure you guys see it too. Like, you'll, somebody will come to you. Be like, I'm desperately trying to help my aunt, Bertha. Or, you know, she's, she's, she's smoking and she's got lung cancer. And she's like, you know what? You know what? You can do. You can ask him, Bertha, if she wants some freaking help. Yeah. If she says, no. Don't worry about it. Yeah. Don't worry about it. And that's the hard thing for people because they. You, you know, you love this person or you think you love this person so much. You desperately want to see them. Stop suffering. You want to ease their suffering. You want to help them get through it and, and heal them. But you can't always do it.

1:07:18And. Yeah. It's, it is, it's up to them. Yeah. It's not up to you. You're not, you're not in charge. Exactly. Yeah. So what about our own mental health as people who are health practitioners, who people do come to us, they are reaching out to us. How do we hold space for them and also for ourselves and find balance so that we don't, you know, go off the deep end of their own mental health, which happens all the time. We get burned out. We get burned out all the time. Oh gosh, I'm, yeah, I'm in the middle of it myself. Well, get recovering from burnout myself. Yeah. I get it because you want you want to help all the people all the time, right? Um, well, I mean, making sure I feel like making sure you've got a set. Stopping time. Really helps a lot. Because I'll be sit like I, I used to be from six a.m. Until nine p.m. That's it there on my phone. I'm answering questions. I'm helping people all this other stuff. And it's like, so I asked what am I getting out of this?

1:08:19No, every now and then, of course, you know, I make a sale of a product or I get, you know, I make some money from, from it. But you can't just let that be living your life for you. You can't be available 16 hours a day for whoever wants you. Yeah. You know, I think it's important. I think it's important to be able to help people that are like, well, I've got a, I've got a really bad cough. I need help. It's like, OK, well, um, I've had to come to a point mentally where I'm like, what do I owe this person? I owe this person nothing. I am allowed to answer them when I have time to answer them. It's not an emergency, you know, it's, and it's not. I don't, I don't say that to be mean or rude or anything. It's just I have to protect myself. I charge for things now because I used to just give free advice, free help, free, free, free, free, free, free, free, free, free and so I'm talking thousands of people would take advantage of me. Yeah. I had people sending me a message like they would Google and I'm I just started answering like I'm not Google.

1:09:22Why I'm not Google you can go Google that like I don't care if I sound like a bitch like I'm you're not treating me with respect by doing that. But having a set point like all right, you know what I don't work after 5 p.m. Yeah, that's it. I do my I'm going to cook dinner. I'm going to listen to some music. I'm going to watch a movie, whatever the heck it is that makes you happy to have your time. Yeah. It's one thing if somebody calls you up and says like I'm this is an emergency. I need your help to us really, but that's going to rare, you know, yeah, having that set time to stop is really important. Getting yourself outside helps so much so much. Yeah, I mean like even if all I have time for is a walk, like just go find a park walk at the park. You know, sometimes if I can hike I hike I spend a lot of time outdoors and in the way yet all year round unless it's like a snowstorm and then I got to go out and snow blow anyway. So, you know, I'm still outside, you know, getting that outdoor time, like saying I'm not going to let anybody stop me from having time outside, even if it's only half an hour or something.

1:10:32Yeah. So whatever you need to do for your own mental health, that's going to make you feel better or feel like you've gotten restorative time for yourself, you know, making sure you sleep at night. And honestly don't don't stay up all night, freaking out about because the email you wrote to your mailing list is not perfect or something and just like all right, I can fix it in the morning screw it. It's fine that they can wait. They can wait it's okay. Yeah, that's that's some some of the best things. I had a cup of tea, I have a cup of tea, self care and I like self care is not just like, you know, getting a massage or going in the sauna or anything kind of stuff. It's it's making sure you get to take a walk or making sure you get to take that time at the end of the night to wind down. Yeah, making sure that you that are are clear with your boundaries.

1:11:33Yeah, setting healthy boundaries is setting healthy bound is exactly exactly for yourself. Yeah, somebody said that I think I posted on Facebook the other day, I was like, you know, what makes somebody a healer. And it's like, I said, because a lot of people don't like that word healer, it's ubiquitous, whatever. And I'm like, if you're doing something or multiple things that help heal somebody. I think are a healer. If you're working on different you could call yourself an herbalist or a rickie master or whatever it is. And somebody that was like on my friends that I barely know this person, but they said, oh, you know, it's because I want to help people. And I want to help people and I want to give them everything I can and give them everything I've got. And I'm not just I just tell people all the time I'm not in this for the money and I say, well, I respond to them and I said, I, I am in this for some money. I am admitting that to myself. I'm not going to, I'm not saying that to take the higher, you know, I'm not going to go live the life of a hermit.

1:12:35Yeah. I don't expect to be a millionaire getting crazy. I'm not a billionaire. I don't have a yacht being an herbalist or anything. But there's a happy medium where you respect yourself. You respect your time and you respect all the hard work and dedication and education you've put into your life. And you say, if you want my help, I'm going to charge you this much. Yeah, you can pay that. If you can't afford that, I wish you luck. You can Google. Here's some, you know, send them a book or something like that. And that's fine. Yeah. It's okay to protect your peace. And trust me, it took me three years of burning myself the hell out before I finally reached that. And you know, the other thing about charging for your services is that other people will then take it more seriously. Yeah. Just giving out free advice all the time. It's kind of often just in one year out of the other and they're just wasting your time, something they could Google. And I found that for me with my, with my astrological services, like when I charge for them, people, like they show up in their series about, they have to like,

1:13:39they have to budget to make sure they can. They're invested in it. Yes, literally. They're invested in it. So they're willing to do the work or do what you, you know, listen to you seriously, because they've got some money on the line. And when somebody just sends you a message online and says, hey, can I get this, this and this for free? Or can you tell me how to solve? Tell me how to heal cancer for free. Like what? Yeah. I've had messages like that. I'm like, no, I'm sorry. No. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a dangerous game too. Exactly. Yeah. There's like number one. There's only so many things I can tell you in the first place, but number two, no, no. Yeah. Right. I mean, my courage for boundaries right now is that I'm on multiple platforms and I get messages from so many different platforms. So any time I could have somebody asking for your health advice from different social media. But I have different emails. And then I'm like, my website contact form. And so I like, I like need to like streamline it.

1:14:39Like, oh, God, that would be nice. I know. I think about this chef, this professional chef that I worked for in high school. Like he only would be contacted either in person at the chef or on his like home phone line. He didn't do email. He didn't. Wow. He had some good boundaries. He had some good boundaries. And I'm like, I'm just thinking about that. I'm like, like, how did he make it? Like, you know, he's this professional chef. But like, people got in contacted with they, they reached out to him. They figured it out. You know, that's, that's good. Because I have, like, I have the website. People contact me through my website. And then I get messages on TikTok or Facebook or Instagram. And it's like, there's only one of me right now. Exactly. Right. So you got a streamline. I'm actually working with somebody right now who's helping you with some marketing stuff to kind of streamline everything. And she said, you know, if you, if you streamline your whole thing, you, you, you lesson. How many messages you're getting through this platform or this platform and just like. Send them all to your email list and then they can email you and it's okay.

1:15:39So I got to sit here for an hour and answer a bunch of emails. But I'd rather sit there and answer a bunch of emails than have to sit. Okay. I answered all my emails. Now I have to check TikTok. Now I have to check Instagram. Now I have to check Facebook and all of a sudden, like without having a whole staff funder made it like. No. No. I mean, there's only so much you can do. And then you don't want to give it to AI because that's just. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just have like an automatic message on like Facebook. Yeah. When people email me like, or people message me like, hey, I don't always check this. Like, if you want to reach me, here's my email. Yeah. That's a good, that's a good way to do it. Yeah, I just said an automated message for everybody. Yeah. And my teacher seven song recommended that I do consoles on like specific days of the week. So it's like this day and this day. That's a good idea. Yeah. And then you, you know, like your brain, you're sitting down for consoles that day. And I'm like, I should try that. Yeah, me. I'm sitting here like, all right, what works good for you? What works good for me? Let's figure this out.

1:16:39We'll pick a day. Sometimes I got a doctor's appointment. I can't do it here. I can't do it there. It's just, yeah. I mean, I'm right now. I'm not doing like a million consultations a week or anything anyway. So like, it's not so bad for, for me, but like eventually. It's going to, it's going to get there. And I'm going to have to go into like group consultations or something. Cause, you know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's one way to do it. Like, when my teachers has like an online platform for just thyroid health. So all of the people that I can't afford to do a console with her. Yeah. She's like in New York City, herbalist like doing amazing work. So she's expensive. So for people who want to like learn how to heal their thyroid, they can go through this program and then have access to her on monthly Q and A's. And I'm like, that's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah. Like a focused thyroid health one and another one that's on different health issues. So, um, yeah, it's there's got it. There are ways that we can protect our peace and still help people. But I'd like that idea of like batch helping people.

1:17:41Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, that's why I tried to run a retreat. I'd love to do another, uh, another retreat. Yeah. I'd like, I, I keep thinking about my, um, the mental health thing that I'm. The program that I'm talking about. And I'm like, this is going to be the kind of thing where people can come in. They'll pay me. We'll do the work together. But they're going to need support after that. Yeah. As it's not just like you can't just heal. Already 50 years of of all your programming in a couple of months. Like you're going to need some. Support and I, I'm trying to think like what's a good, you know, program I can use to do like a group thing so that they've got monthly calls or something like that. And then there's a few things like that online. I'm working it out. But, um, Like you, you want to give them the one on one. But then it's like, alright, what do we do? When this is gone. And I, I hate like how everything, everything in America is a subscription service right now. But that's like the only way to do something like that. Really. Yeah. Yeah.

1:18:41And like, yeah, you definitely need the one on one because everyone's an individual. But sometimes the group. Learning experiences. You learn from each other. You have the same issues. And someone asked a question that you couldn't vocalize. But you completely asked question. And so like it's not. Sometimes it adds to the healing rather than take away. So like in one on one. That's probably idealist. Have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's what I'm. So I'm sure by the end of this year, I will have completely built it and be like looking back going. Yeah, I was a good idea. We had it. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. I'm working on building it with my, with my online herbs school that I started just in November of this year. And it's like group sessions, but also like, you know, one on ones where people can. November. It was November. October. Maybe it was October. No, September. I don't know. But it's fall. Sorry. But yeah. So we, we tried to incorporate like the live group classes every Sunday.

1:19:44And then we also have the one on ones to accomplish goals. And it's also really hard to just like keep up with engagement online with like, you know, and like with herbal healing. Like you can do Zoom calls, but like you can't really do a tongue diagnosis as easily or like a post diagnosis or like catch a. Live like as he, you know, like there's yeah, that work. So yeah, we're just adjusting like to all of these new ways of being with, you know, the current technology that we have. And yeah, it's like always changing was now there's AI. And it's. Yeah. I know we just, we have to make it easier for everybody to get together in person. Yes. There's got to be more like we'll have to, we'll have to everybody will create a new, like you guys are close enough to me. We're going to have to create a new herb conference now. Yeah. Well, we have, we have, we've got, we've got one coming up in this in the summer. Yeah, we do a conference here in the summer called plant cutting conference. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for being on the show.

1:20:44Amelia. Well, we really appreciate it. This has been a great. Thank you guys for having me. I appreciate you. Hopefully, um, I mean, if you want to talk when my next book comes out, we could. I'll say that one too. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.