Ep 179 - The 10 Things Every Successful Junior Golfer Has with Mark Govier

0:00Welcome to the Your Golf Performance Podcast, where we dive into the world of golf improvement and performance. I'm your host, Brent Dale, here to bring you insights from the game's top coaches, players and experts. Whether you're a club golfer, elite player or a seasoned professional, our goal is to help you elevate your game. Tune in each week for in-depth interviews, expert tips and little gold nuggets that help us identify what makes the best engulf rise to the top. Let's get started and take your golf performance to the next level. Welcome back to the Your Golf Performance Podcast. We've got a return guest today, Mark Govier. He's the high performance golf coach at Alters Performance in Dallas, Texas, one of the busiest online coaches in the world. We're going to have a bit of a chat today. We're sort of picked out maybe 10 little discussion topics, how to help a junior golfer or any golfer for that matter, become the best they can be, or try to make it on the pro circuit. Mark, thank you so much for coming back on. Thanks, mate.

1:00I appreciate you having me back on here, looking forward to I'm going to chat. It's good that we got our diaries aligned the first corner. I look at that. Look at that. Oh, and our hats are all aligned. For anyone that's listening, go and have a look at the YouTube video or the socials we've both got our matching Amen Corner Masters hats on, so that gave me shit feedback for only ever talking about the Masters. This episode's for you. No idea. I dare you. I think you have to go with someone for the Masters to be a golfer. Come on. Come on. How are you, mate? What's new in your world? Last time we spoke, you were back in the UK and you were pretty much just coaching online. You made the switch back to the US? Yeah, I came back here. I was about 11 months back home. When I went back to Wales, Basie was coaching online, doing a little bit of in-person coaching but generally online. Had the Olympics with a time I went back there. That was a great experience, but then decided we wanted to come back to the States and Alters.

2:00It was very kindly. It keeps me to come back. So it was perfect. It worked great. I was about to come back out here and it's sort of like plug and play, you know, back into the same environment with all the guys at Alters, same area in Texas, kids go back to the same school. So, yeah, it was a pretty seamless transition back into my old role. Was it like a weather thing or a quality of, like, what was the... What made you's move back? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a little bit of everything. I mean, it's, yes, the weather definitely makes it different, but I think after having time in both places and they're both fantastic, they're just different, just to realize it felt like too early to not be in this environment. I think I put a lot of work in to get to the stage where I started to work with some really good players and having some cool opportunities, like I said, going to the Olympics and coaching and those sort of things and then working with more pros and elite juniors and seeing the development and then I think after a bit of time away, I was like, my gosh, I started that journey and it just felt like it was just too soon to stop and give it up.

3:02So after some sort of soul-searching and discussions with myself and Sarah and the kids, we were like, okay, let's get back over there. We love our life here as well, we've got a great group of friends here, good community and obviously built up a pretty sort of good balance of players out here as well. So it was just that pretty easy decision to make in the long run. Yeah, okay. Awesome. So we've, I guess, come up with some good topics to sort of discuss and it might be a sore point for a few people that are listening in, there might be some parents or some kids or whatever they're listening in or even your regular amateur golfer that kind of is listening and wants to be the best golfer or version of themselves. You know what I think one of the first things I want to talk about is love of the game. So there are definitely kids or some people that are playing and they don't, I don't

4:03know what you were like as a kid, but a lot of the guests that I come on here and their coaches or their players, they were utterly obsessed with the game. So if they weren't playing, they were reading a magazine or they were chipping, I only had a conversation last night with one of my assistant pros. You know, I used to chip balls at my parents house from the back lounge room to the front lounge room across a little bar area, you know, smashing lights and so would you agree on that that they've got to be utterly obsessed? Yeah, I mean, it's funny you say that. I mean, I remember when I was a kid, my mum would contest this is that we would chip and allowance my dad would love the golf as well and we'd be out there and I was literally taking divots out of the carpet, we had to stick it back down, we'd put through windows, your holes and ceilings, but it was any opportunity where we could practice and have fun. I think that's a big part of it and there's no doubt about it, the parent has an important role in driving the junior, but I do feel like, you know, it's got to come from within to really push on to the next level and you've got to have that love of it.

5:06And that's why we all get into it originally, don't we? We don't necessarily maybe think, I want to become a D1 golfer, I want to become a pro, we get into it because we love it and we love competing and we love the camaraderie we get with our friends and the challenge that can be within it. And again, now like you said, you're on there's the amateur golfer and he's, you know, he or she is having the same challenge, it's just different to maybe the ones that are trying to go on and win majors, but we're all going through the same struggles and you've got to have that love and passion, just passion for it because it's a tough game, you know, and if you don't love it, it's easier just to put it down and leave it there. Do you find, obviously you work with a lot of high end or, you know, high level junior golfers, you're going to have a mixture of kids that are obsessed and kids that maybe don't hate it, maybe they're trying to help, you know, please mum and dad. Have you found a way as a coach to try to tap into the individual to find something that they love about it and sort of push it? I have some kids that will come to me and talk about, you know, Marko, is it Marko

6:09pens? You know that? Yeah. Right. And this kid the other day said, oh, that, that movement felt like this and I'm like, wow, like that's when I know a kid who this guy, yeah, okay, he's well known, but he's not very well known. And then I've had other kids where I mentioned Scotty Sheffler or Jordan Speeth and they don't know who I'm talking about. Thank you. So have you found a way to tap into a kid that, to, to, is there a way you could give advice to parents that, you know, maybe the kid doesn't love it, but they've got a bit of talent? Yeah, I think like everyone's on a different journey and certainly you do have kids like, I've got six, seven year olds that are literally, you know, they, they are so obsessed by it. They could, they watched the PG tour, they watched the live tour, they know the players, which is crazy to think of that age and their knowledge, they know, but the golf companies and they all, but the brands, you know, they really are immersed into it. And then I've got other kids that are maybe, let you say, you know, 11, 12, you know, really good players, but they're just doing it more because, you know, they enjoy doing it and

7:11their parents are obviously a big part of driving that and we all are, what are kids to do as best we can. But you've just got to treat it as an individual. The key thing for me is like, I've got to make the time that they have with me quality. I've sort of a little bit out of control what they do when they're not with me because, you know, there's lots of other outside implements is going to affect how they're going to be enjoying the game, but certainly the time that they have with me, I need to adapt to every child in front of me, whether it's more gameplay and making it more fun and challenging, some players like the technical. So you have to be pretty adaptable as a coach because if you go for the one size fits all approach, it's not always going to work out. No, no, I like that. We're welcoming a new partner to the your golf performance podcast. This will be a performance analytics partner, circles or draw more circles as you may know them. The ultimate tool for tracking your golf progress, whether you're a junior golfer, college player or coach, the everyday club golfer or a golf professional, draw more circles allows you to easily track and analyze your performance like never before.

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9:15Quality coaching and fundamentals. How important are those? Very, but yeah. Yeah. Very. I mean, I think the quality of the coach is so many. I think there's a big difference between a coach and a teacher's, and there's a teacher who's giving information. And maybe at the beginning level, you're teaching the grip, you're teaching the stance, the ball position, the posture, the fundamentals, and it's very much like relaying information. But then as you move along and the player get to more skills, and now you're coaching, but like you said, you're on as, well, now the player is, I've got to try to get this player excited. I've got to make their enjoy it. It's got to make it resonate. I've got to also bounce off there and get their interaction as a player. So I think the big thing is, is as a coach, is you have to be, be able to manage the player as well as having great technical knowledge. And there's so many great, like people who've got every certificate in the world who not necessarily great coaches. Yeah. And there's other players then or other coaches that are, you know, not necessarily might not have all the qualifications, but they're just great at getting results.

10:18They're very good at getting to the player and getting them to understand and getting things to resonate. So I think adaptability is a big part of becoming a great coach and setting, yes, great foundations, you know, great fundamental, we know that, we just talked about that, that's a big part of it. But we've also got to make sure they're putting quality into what they do away from it, how they're practicing, you know, how they're looking after eating and sleeping, you know, what they're doing, you know, like for their proper preparation, their psychology on the golf course. So there's so many different facets to it. So, you know, yes, there's the foundation, the teaching, but the coaching parts are the really better tips. It's the next level. And like are you very strict with, say you reference six and seven year olds and all that sort of stuff, are you pretty strict with how they got to hold the club, how they got a gripper, like, you know, and I know there's, it's a balancing act, right, because, you know, some, some camps will say, no, I just get a moving and then fix all that stuff later. Like it's, yeah, what, where do you sort of sit with that, or is it student by student?

11:22Yeah. I mean, I think I'm probably quite, I'm quite hard on creating great foundations, that's just the way I would do it. And my argument for the parents would be, as much as I want this kid to play well in the next few weeks, I don't want them to be shackled by technical issues that are going to catch up on them down the line, or they're going to have injuries when they're 16, 17 years, 18 years old, but they've had a few hundred thousand reps and they've worked around that poor motion. So yes, for me, personally, I would be pretty heavy on getting the technical things as good as possible. And that'll might be slowly, slowly you're doing that, just gradually moving it around. And when you look back at old videos, I always love looking back at the old videos. It's amazing how that development comes, but it's set, it seems so natural and organic rather than maybe like an overnight change the whole thing, because they've still got to go play golf. They still want to enjoy it. But yeah, for me, I would be very much focused on real quality fundamentals, just to sat them up for the long term. Yeah. I always feel like when I was younger, like a younger coach, I always thought it had

12:26to be about the swing and we've got to do this and just get them moving and yeah, okay, the grip's not perfect, but we can fix that later. And, you know, I'm getting more and more younger kids now coming for private lessons. And years ago, I would have felt bad where I just spent 30 or 60 minutes working on the grip. Yeah. But now I don't care. It's like you're paying me because you want your kid to get better and I can't have them come in with this grip that's three inches apart and, you know, super strong and, you know, they're just pick, like it's, that kind of sets the whole, you know, I want them standing well and I want them holding it well. Yeah. So that sort of gets that domino effect in the right order, not incorrect somewhere else, right? Yeah. And I think, you know, you're right on that. Like I would say, anything's on the table. If you can make it work, it's just pitiful and it's not going to cause injury. So if you can show me, you can do all those things. It's all about creating matchups, isn't it? We know that. Yeah. But, but if you're hitting a hard left and you've got every knuckle showing in your right hands and leave your fingernails showing up to face and you're doing that consistently, well, alarm bells are ringing and we need to make that adjustment at that point.

13:28So, you know, if you're hitting knuckle drawers and it's all under control, well, okay, we can work around certain things. Yeah. All right. Moving on to athletic development. So, where do you stand with? Is it part of the program there with Alters? Yeah. We sort of have trainers that we outsource our, you know, we send our kids to or our college golfers, pros, whatever it is. We like them to do it. I think it's an important part. I like kids to play multiple sports. I think that's a key part of it that helps improve their athletic ability. I think too many kids get pigeonholed into specialization of very young age, like, you know, again, like eight, nine years old, ten years old. I think that's too young. I think we've been playing lots of sports for a long time because it's definitely, you know, it's been shown, isn't it, by evidence and studies that they are better athletes by doing that. So, I think that you can get a lot from just allowing your kid to do multiple sports and then once they get to high school and they're playing vastly stuff, okay, well, at that point, you realistically need to be specializing down to one or two sports at the maximum.

14:31Yeah. And then I think working with trainers, yes, if they're good and they know what they're doing, and they have their specialists in, you know, development with children or whatever it may be or it's college golfers, etc, you need to have somebody who really knows their expertise and it's golf-specific, then without a doubt athletic, you know, training is superb for their development, for the power, for their mobility, for the ability to avoid injuries, all those things we talked about, you're on. Do you guys do group coaching for the younger ones, or is it a lot more that you do here? Yeah. You have a foundation level, but it's not foundation. I mean, I mean, if these kids are in foundation level, are probably playing US kids and shooting in the 70s already. So, I would say it's far from foundation, but I suppose within our program, we would class that as a foundation a lot of time because they're age, and then once they get to the aspire, which is the next level up, I mean, those kids are nion shooting par, or very closer, and then we have a D1 program, which is the program above it, which is then preparing them more for some grade eight, you know, like 13 years old, into high school to prepare

15:33them for the opportunities to go into college golf, and at that point, that would be covering lots of skill work. Yes, this and form, but it's mainly skill work, practice methods, college readiness, sports psychology, planning and mapping golf courses, so it goes a little bit more into softer skills once they go to those levels. And with your earlier, like your foundation and that, is it just learning skills, or is it like combining, like with our program, we may have eight kids, like young kids in the beginner program, four stations for hitting, and then four stations where they're jumping and spinning and balance things, and that sort of stuff. Do you have that sort of stuff incorporated into it? Yeah, I mean, we would have like a warm-ups, and then we wouldn't necessarily always have that. I've done it in the past, but it would be more, I would be more golf focused, so like you said, it might be form, form stations first, starting with like a form station, where that's a wedge stationing, climb plane, make sure we do the form stuff well, sprays, landing

16:33spot stuff, and then, and then from there, we've then maybe going to skills, so we play, you know, like $30 bank is like a yardage test that we play, or we do a track man combine tests, certain yardages, we might go on to like a rat race, you know, like a gauntlet style. It's sort of an initial bit of form, and we used to check it and get the kids to understand it, then we would go on to skill, and then we would have some competitive skill element at the end, then where we would have an outcome, so just see whether you're all ranking within that class. Yeah, okay. All right, next one, short game mastery at an early age, like, where do you see, is this super important in your mind? Yeah, I mean, I know it's like, hey, I know this is the contrast that people say, you've got to hit the ball long way in a young age, and I get it, right? There's no doubt about it. But, you know, I've got kids, you know, that's 70 pounds, 80 pounds, they're only so far they're going to hit it, just because the mastery have, you know, they're great athletes, you just can't hear that fine, it's, there's only so much you can create out of it. So at that point, you know, you can do what you want to do to get the distance, but short

17:34game is the separator, the kids that I coach are the most highest high highest level, they all have amazing short games. They are great players, great chippers, they've got all the shots around the greens, they can play bunker shots, they've got great distance wedge play, they're very precise, they're with their approach play, but they might not always hit the ball as far as some kids, because here you get two 13-year-olds, they can be ahead of part and 50, 60 pounds apart, can't they? And it's like, well, you know, you're not going to hit it for them, so you have to be able to have that mastery in the other end of the game where you can be a level. And then once they get the size, well, now you've got, you've got the dual prong attack of you, you've got the power, and then you've got this great short game skill which you're going to add into it. Yeah, I can't add anything extra to that. Exactly. The mod I've always said for those little kids, just be patient. Yeah, it's just going to come when it's running really good at chipping and putting and move on. Push you up. All right, competition play, you know, there's going to be some kids that are playing,

18:35you know, the highest level they can, and then some kids that are probably really nervous just playing a normal, it's a bit different here in Australia to the US, like we have regular competitions here, you know, my course is like five days a week, they have competitions on, right? So, you know, like your stablefords and all that, which you'd be probably used to back in the UK, but over in America, it's a little bit different, but like, you know, getting kids or getting people playing more competition, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I think they've got a compete, isn't it? I mean, the model's very different, exactly what you said in the UK. It's a bit more relaxed. You tend to compete with a new golf club first or don't you? So, you're in a junior section and you're playing a junior tournament and then you might play some senior tournaments, but a lot of it goes on within the club, and then you get to a certain age and you might start to play some, you know, county events and then eventually you might play some national events. But I feel it's a much more slower, more gradual progression. I mean, out here, these kids are played, I'm not even joking, they play like 400, 500 tournaments a time they're 12 years old.

19:36It's, you know, it's more than what I played in my entire, well, probably five lifetimes. Yeah. I mean, is one bit any other? I mean, we still develop great players in Europe and the same with Australia. Maybe sounds like more of a similar model to the UK. I think there's a fine line between overplaying, traveling a lot to a young age. I feel is that FOMO in all sports in the US is incredibly competitive and you feel like you should be doing what everyone else does. But there is just this more gradual progression or come with time. I don't know if you listen to the podcast with Corey and Cam, the other day on the, the podcast that it was with, over, we both, whatever you want to call it. And basically what he was saying with him, he was a very late developer, just playing with his golf club to sort of 1450 and then all sudden had this big sort of play more competing more. So there's no exact way to do it. I do like kids to compete, but it doesn't need to be, they've got to play, you know, three tournaments a week in the summer and constantly be traveling around America.

20:37It's a fine balance. Every kid is different. Hey listeners, I just wanted to give a big shout out to one of our amazing partners, True Protein. They've been with me for a while now and honestly, I can't speak highly enough about them. For years, I struggled to find a protein powder that didn't make me feel sick. Most brands would often make my stomach feel upset and I'd just truly give it up. But ever since I started using True Protein, it's completely changed. Their products make me feel great. I've never had that heavy or queasy feeling I used to get with the other brands. I'm absolutely obsessed with the chalk peanut butter flavor that I've been putting in my protein shakes with a banana and some ice and some almond milk, absolute game changer. It's become my pretty much every day go to and also the other thing that I'm sort of having probably too often is their collagen hot chocolate every morning. Just mix it in with some hot water and it's like 12 grams of protein for about 80 calories. So you can't go wrong. Plus their protein bars are perfect for snacking on the course or during lessons. They keep me fueled without the crash.

21:39True Protein is an Aussie-Meg brand that uses clean, high quality ingredients with no weird fillers or artificial junk. That's a huge deal for me because those fake sweetness is what I've always struggled with and they'd all set me off. So with our partnership, you can get a $25 off your first order as a new customer. Just use the code TrueYGP at checkout. That's TRUEYGP. I'm proud to partner with True Protein because they've genuinely made a difference for me and I know they'll do the same for you. Are you seeing a lot of the kids that are playing, you know, truckloads of events from 5, 6, 7 years old? They get over it by the time they're teenagers? Or is it, I guess they would if they're losing a lot or they're not winning a lot? Golf you're going to lose more than you win, right? But do you ever see much of that? Yeah, I mean, kids definitely burn out. I think they just go, I wouldn't say they actually stop playing from what I've seen.

22:40They've been from the kids that I've been working with. But certainly they have periods where they go stale just because they play a lot of golf. And also, like you just said, you're hitting a good point there. It's that understanding that, hey, you can't win every time. Now, when they're at that say under $9.10, the good kids, they're like winning every single week. It's, you know, they literally are winning 70-80% of the tournament they play into. So all of a sudden they get used to being like, oh, I just, I play golf and I win. And that's what I expect. And then suddenly you get the 12, 13, 14 and the events get bigger and your pockets bigger. And suddenly now you're not winning every event. You're winning every seventh or eighth event or you're finishing tenth. And imagine those expectations as some of the most difficult things. But we always use like an example of like Tiger Woods win ratio. I mean, the guy was, you know, like insane. I think he had like a 20% win rate, which is miles ahead of anyone else. So that's the de-greatest golf or one of the greatest golfers of all time, at least. So, you know, if he's only winning, you know, winning five events, then we've got to match our expectations.

23:40Go play your best, but also understand that as it goes along, it gets a lot harder to win. Yeah. All right. Next one that this is one that you were supercane on. Purposeful practice habits. Okay. Yeah, that's a big one. I think that's a separate because the time you have with the coach, hopefully that's quality time, and we always try to guide our kids in a great way when they come for the sessions. But the time away from the coach, I find is the most dangerous time because, hey, what are they doing? You know, if they're quality, do what they're doing, if they have a structure. What was it just machine gunning balls and a range? Is there no engagement? Is it not enough practice? Not enough play and too much practice? So trying to get that balance is really important. And for me, like having a plan and turning up with a plan is a massive separator. Compared to what the majority of people are doing, which is just turning up and hitting balls and just hoping for the best. Now, repetition will help. We know that, but putting more quality into it and having more of a structure and ways to quantify your skill is definitely the separate.

24:43And I think that that's one of the big things that we are very big on with analysis is putting the quality into your practice. And the kids that do that, no doubt about it are the ones that will pull away into the next level. I want to talk about something. But the next topic that I was going to say was ownership of improvement. Yeah. And I think this is the biggest thing with practice, right? Like they come, whether it's an adult, I said this to an adult last night, you know. I'm showing you and I'm standing here and I'm watching and making sure everything is correct. But I don't know what you're going to do between now and our next lesson. Because what I'm showing you is right and what I'm videoing and all the feedback tools I'm giving you, but you might be off by, let's just say it was your shoulder alignment and you go back to your shoulders being left. Well, that throws everything out and you've wasted three weeks of practice before our next session. So ownership of improvement, I had this down as a topic because I also think a lot of

25:50parents and kids go, well, it's Mark's job or it's Brent's job or it's the coach's job to make sure I get better. Well, we're guiding you and we're giving you all the right information. But someone has to own it and it is not the parent and it is not the coach. It is the kid. Am I am I wrong? No, no, I mean, I think you've got to take accountability and we talk about this a lot with our kids is we use a lot of resources, the skillless resource for the online is amazing because I think that's accountability. I can prompt them. They can send me videos. We can get constant feedback. I can ensure they're doing it well. There's so no doubt about it closing that gap between the sessions by having feedback that way. It certainly helps. It's a way of trying to create sort of more checkpoints, which I think is huge. But I talked about this actually with a, I mean, talk about this daily, but particularly, I see this resonated because one kid I coach, he comes regular, comes back with the same issue the next week and it takes 10, 15 minutes and we get him back into it.

26:53And I said to him about the last session. I said, look, are you filming your swing? Are you getting feedback? Because practice without feedback is a waste of time. He said, no, I don't close that. So why not? I said, you're, you know, you're 15. You've got a phone. You've got a tripod all the way. You see a tripod all you think, why not film it? I don't get a chance. But I said, well, look, you've got to do it. I said, because otherwise, you're just, we're coming back with the same thing. Yeah. I said, you need to get better at understanding, checking these things yourself. I said, you've got a great golf, I give you. You know what to look for. I just showed you what, what I'm seeing. And you told me what the issue is. So can we do that? He comes back to the next lesson yesterday. The best I've seen him move. It was the same path that we left with. The ball flight was under control. I was like, tell me what you've done differently. So I've been filmed myself regularly. I was like, okay, there we go. We can move on. We're not, when he said to it, he's like, it was so cool. We didn't have to talk about the same thing. I was like, yeah, me too. I love not having to talk about the same thing. I want to move on to doing skills. But if we got it, if you're not taking ownership of it, we're going to keep going around the same circles every time you turn up.

27:53Which is crazy. And for any kids that are listening, or parents of kids, when Mark and I were, were juniors. Ph.S, you ever had exactly. So I don't remember videoing myself and plugging it into my laptop to be able to watch it. I mean, I could watch it on the little, you know, the flip-out screen that it had. But it was everything right now. They are set up for success, basically. Like, you know, you can film your swing and it's 240 frames a second. May, honestly. So that's, yeah, exactly. And you've got things like skillets or coach now that we use that they can just put the stuff into. Or draw lines. I mean, it's just, yeah, I mean, I, you know, like, and I think that's what I'm making. It's like, you know what to do. We give you the homework. We give you the drills. It's all clear and concise within the app. We send it to you. So it's not like you haven't got the information we sent you off. Yeah. With nothing, you've got all the tools. You've just, like you said, you've got to have the accountability and you've got to take control of it. Otherwise, you're holding yourself back in the long run.

28:54Yeah. You're, your improvement is going to take 10 times longer. You can push your, yeah. No more of it could. So, yeah. All right, supportive environment. Yeah, I mean, that's huge, isn't it? I mean, it's, it brings, you know, it takes a, it takes an army, didn't it, to bring a, you know, a successful athlete and, you know, the coaches are a huge part of it. The parents are huge part of it. High school coaches are a big part of it. The people who hang around with a big part of it, you know, the people you play with. There's just so many different parts that have a big effect on how you perform. And I think if you speak to most of the elite level players, they'll talk about. People who've been important in that journey, whether that was a coach who did their foundational stuff that set them up for the, the basis or whether it was, you know, a top level coach and when they got on tour, took them to the next level, their parents driving them around, you know, and being supportive. Because, like you said, you know, you're going to lose more than you're going to win. And, you know, that's tough to take when you're a kid,

29:55you know, because they don't really understand. They just want to constantly win. And that's just, that's partly what makes them so good is they, they expect a lot of themselves. So being there to support them and not being too hard. And then when they have those bad weeks, you know, the human beings, they're growing, they're not going to be consistent all the time. And it's a lot of things that have effects. So as a parent and as a coach, we've got to be there to support them. And I think that's just absolutely vital. I don't want to sort of be going in two footed on these kids where they're just born. They know when they've had a bad week, what it feels like for themselves and for us as coaches. And as parents, we've got to be the ones to lift them back up and and help them get back to where they want to be and keep them motivated. Your golf ball is the most technologically advanced. Or it's not. Your golf ball is either the most consistent or it's not. It's the most trusted or it's not. The fact is, is either titleist the best performing

30:55golf ball in the world or it's not. Prove it for yourself. Titleist the number one ball in golf. What will you play? You know, just adding to that, like support doesn't always have to come with you know, the credit card or the cash in paying for things. It's like be there parent when you get in the car. You know, doesn't have to you don't have to criticize on that car ride home. I think we all have heard that one. You know what I mean? Like the kids already had a shit day out on the golf course. The last thing they want to do is get grilled on what they did wrong on the way home. I mean, my two cents with that is, you know, have the car ride home and maybe just sort of say, hey, have you self-evaluated to think what you could have done differently today versus just, you know, point in the finger saying you did this wrong, you did that wrong, you know, that sort of stuff. All right, next point, mental toughness and resilience. No, I suppose it's a little bit into what you said there, isn't it?

31:56I mean, I think as parents and coaches, we help develop that for them. Given the tools to understand that, hey, this game is really hard and you're going to get bad breaks and things are always going to go your way. And in those situations, that's where, you know, having that mental resilience is definitely the separator. Be able to recover from setbacks and get back out and practice and be motivated. And also just understand the good things that you did in those tournaments. Yeah, I mean, it's so many things that build that up over a period of time. I think some kids definitely own some players in general, just kids, you know, pros, some have naturally more of that. But doesn't mean the ones that don't have it can't learn to develop it and move that to the next level. You're trying to create sort of evidence in practice that would help them be able to pull on certain things in certain situations, would be important as well. Also, when they're in those tough situations, being able to pull on old times where they

33:01pulled off a great shot when they're in a tough situation like that, that's important as well. Using affirmations is important, you know, positive self-talk, you know, not saying stupid crap out loud, basically, the big part of it, you know, like a lot of self-talk with all players is terrible. And I was like, well, if this was someone else in to you, it would be like, abuse, but it's coming from you, it's even worse. So those things are all part of the build that meant to resilience. You're just going to be careful what you say to yourself because ultimately you're knocking yourself down when you're doing that, so catching yourself when you're saying those negative things and just trying to replace that with something more constructive. Yeah, I always reference the, you know, whether you are shit or you think you're shit, you're right. If you keep constantly keep telling yourself you're poor at something, you're going to become bad at it, right? Like you, I mean, there are outliers where there are some really great players who just give themselves a spray every time they hit a shot sort of thing

34:02that maybe some people need that mentally inside their brain, but obviously it sounds like, you know, with your coaching programs that you have there, as the kids get a little bit older, you made a comment before it's not necessarily around, you know, the group training is not necessarily around them learning new skills. Is it is a lot more competitive practice to sort of pull them under pressure so that when they go play a tournament, I always say this to my kids, I want your practice to be harder than the tournament. So like a chip shot, if you miss the green, just feels easy because you're normally competing against six other people and you're feeling all the pressure of different points or, or, you know, getting knocked out of our chipping comp type thing. Yeah, and I think that's a key part of it is it has to be the practice has to be challenging. If you can get in a key group, well, that's amazing because it's a costly practicing under pressure and in a competitive environment. And ultimately all those things do build up your resilience. The more you practice it, the difficult situation where there is consequence. As much consequence, you can create in a practice environment. There's no doubt about it. There's a downstream effect on

35:07the mental resilience when you create that in a consistent basis. The players that don't challenge themselves and they practice, it's too easy or it's always like, okay, you can just come back in and have another go. You're not really doing them a favor in the long run there. There has to be some sort of toughness to your practice to really prepare you for the rigors of Torma Golf. Yeah, I completely agree. All right, last little point before we wrap up here, patience and long term development. Yeah, I mean, it's the journey to where you're trying to go. For example, if you've got a 10-year-old, a 12-year-old, and they want to play, I don't vastly golf or they want to play college golf or they want to go on to be pros. That's a long way, isn't it? And I think you've got to be addicted to the process and get the player to really understand, like, hey, let's focus on the daily habits. Let's not try to set time, mind, just create the set goals. Goals are great. They keep us motivated. They make us want to go on practice. I want to go win the masters. All right, well, hopefully that's going to give you motivated to go on practice. But that's not enough. The habits,

36:11so are the bits that really take you to that next level. Those habits take a long time, that compound effect, that patience, that resilience that just takes time, you know, it can be two or three years of hard work. Sometimes before you see the big jumps, and sometimes you do something for three months and you change your habits and you get a big jump straight away. But there's no guarantee, but we took the big thing we do with our kids is we have habit trackers. They have these sheets that they print out every week. And they have lots of different things on that. So it would be like organising practice, physical training, look after your sleep, complete. They mean there's just like lots of different things on there. There's like every single day's on there. And we get them to be like, right, every week you're going to bring along and you're going to be honest, you're going to tick off the things you did. And just do things as much you can do at the start. And then eventually over a period of time, you start to see more ticks every single week. Now the kids that turn up with the more ticks every single week, over a period of time, they are the kids that go liked out or they start playing well, they start winning tournaments, they start having big jumps. But it's just good for

37:11them to understand like, hey, focus on the habits, the daily habits and the rest will take care of itself. Don't get too focused on like the short term, it's a long term development. I remember, you know, I had a student that was over in the US and he was playing college golf and he just wasn't, you know, a lot of kids when they go overseas, especially, you know, I find kids that come from Australia and they go sort of anywhere north over the US, they get depressed because they go from... Well, they got 365 days of golf over here and then next minute, especially if they start in January, right, which, you know, a kid that I've currently working with, he's over there and he is proper, you know. He's playing track man numbers at the moment. Yeah, this is bad. And I'm like, like, dude, I said, he looked at his, he sent me his swing last night and I'm like, tell me how your swing can't win a major, right? Just tell me, like it's pure. You need to just wait until the snow melts and just chill for a few more weeks and, you know,

38:16maybe just do some wedges in there or play the track man combines and all that, rather than worrying about what your swing path is or your club face. I've had this kid years ago, it was probably three or four years ago and he's like, I feel like I'm putting all this effort in for nothing. And I'm like, but how do you know that the daily actions that you're taking right now aren't for something in six years from now? It's hard to get the bag in on that one, isn't it? Well, I've talked about that all the time, the compound effect of, you know, just what you're doing for a long period of time, but it's hard because when suddenly people change their habits and they they're getting up and they're training and they're doing their practice and they're, you know, they're eating well and they're going to sleep and then suddenly three months later they're sort of not quite seeing the progress they were hoping for. That's hard to say to them, hey, look, this might be three to five years until you really see the massive jumps. But if you keep doing it, there's no way this is not going to be successful. Delayed gratification. Yeah, I know. It's hard when you're trying to tell a 13-year-old about it because they don't,

39:18they've grown up in an era where they just pop their phone out and anything that they want. Straight away. Yeah, so that's the world we live in, isn't it? You know, we're all living in that world as well. I want something, I'll just click on that and just, but you're the next day. Sorry, I'm going to, this is not a rant, but it's just a bit of a laugh, right? Like, you know, I'm 42, nearly 43. Like, as a kid, I had, you know, like a little asteroid's game. I had an Nintendo Game Boy or whatever. And you would just play that. Now, my six-year-old, he has an iPad and we're pretty strict with iPad use, but he has this iPad and anytime he wants to download a game, it comes to us and we have to approve it on iPad. The amount of time, so we'll say, can I have my iPad or whatever? And yeah, okay, you can have it for half an hour. And he'll download six or seven different games in that half an hour because, oh, that one's boring. That one's boring. And I'm like, this is not good for their, like, mental development, right? Just having, it's the same,

40:21Netflix, you know, they get sick of a show. Whereas, when we go on holidays, we actually like them to watch whatever kids shows come on the television because they've got to sit there with and learn patience and go, well, you get what you get and don't get upset. That's kind of what we say to them like, yeah, whatever show comes on next. But yeah, I think the world's very different now and I guess maybe we need to learn to adapt to their world. Yeah, I mean, it is, it is, but it is, and it's part of it, but it's hopefully trying to get them to understand that here is a difference team having this instant on-demand choice of whatever TV show you want to do compared to the reality of developing to a high level. And I use examples like, hey, look, see if I want it today and I wanted to go win Mr Olympia and be a bodybuilder. Like, that's not going to happen in a month. That's not going to happen in a year. It's not going to happen for three years or that's, it's that long term so certain things they'd understand it, but in golf, it's almost like, well, I'm good. So if I start doing a bit more, I should be seeing even more straight away. And sometimes that happens, but

41:22sometimes it's just, as you said, it's just a little bit delayed. It's, it's, it's no different to 20 handicap amateur coming for a lesson and, and wanting to be off scratch next week because you, you've had one 30-minute lesson with it. Mark, thank you so much for coming on, mate. How can, we spoke about this last time, but how can everyone follow you or find you online? So I'm on Instagram and Elite Golf Coach, I'm on skill list, if anyone's looking for online coaching, I support that side and that's, again, such Mark Obia on that side of things. But yeah, YouTube as well. Don't do a lot on YouTube, but there's access to stuff. There's still lots of videos there, but you can watch back and hopefully get some free tips. All right, mate. Thank you so much for coming on. All right, brother. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. Take care. See you. Well, I hope you enjoyed that episode just as much as I did. Truly appreciate having you as a listener to my show. If you could head to wherever you listen to your podcast and give this show a score out of five or a review, I'd truly appreciate it. And

42:25share it with as many people as you can. This is truly starting to get right around the world.