Entrepreneurs' Self-Sabotage And Breakthroughs

0:00What if the biggest thing standing between you and your next breakthrough? Is it your strategy or your market? It's not even your ability. But instead, it's a ceiling that you didn't even realize you've put on yourself. Welcome to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast. In this podcast, Dan Kennedy and Chris Cardell explore why entrepreneurs with good ideas and plenty of opportunity still sabotage their own progress and what separates wanting a result from actually intending to achieve it. You'll hear why implementation can change what you believe is possible, why dabbling becomes increasingly expensive as you grow and how the final stretch towards real mastery can produce disproportionate rewards. If you suspect you're capable of another level, but haven't quite reached it yet, listen closely. Here's Dan Kennedy and Chris Cardell. I don't think there's anybody that has had a bigger impact in the field of direct response than Dan Kennedy. The legend of Dan Kennedy should be ignored at your own peril. They're not really the lessons, they're laws that you'll live by. Dan opened my eyes to what small business marketing looks like.

1:03Dan teaches strategic direct response that is timeless. His ripple effect touches people who don't even know his name. The world we know it was changed because Dan Kennedy became obsessed with marketing. Welcome to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast with your host, Dan Kennedy. Welcome to this month's Diamond Call. I have with me Chris Cardell, who I assume is calling in from the other side of the pond. Chris, welcome. How's the Queen and the little baby and the castle? The Queen sends you her love and best wishes as ever. There is still the open invitation for tea at the palace whenever you so choose, but she knows how busy you are. Wonderful. Wonderful. We can do that on this call, as you know. I've discovered that Brits have a wonderful sense of humor about everything but the Queen. It is not like we make fun of our presidents by any stretch of the imagination.

2:08So you and I share an interest in passion for fascination with why and how people sabotage their own success and create their own success as much by their thinking and behavior as by any particular business or marketing methodology. And that will be where we'll go with this call and we will let people get in fairly early and start playing. But I'm going to let you do your own introduction and origin story. So a little bit about what your business is today. A little bit about the starvation period of time at the bridge between the two. Sure. Well, I feel like it's always a test to be here with you and the team. Okay. So the easy description, I guess of what I do now if you want a simple description for everybody.

3:11I kind of do what Dan does, but I do it in the UK and Europe. That would be the simplest. So we provide marketing internet marketing, sales and business success strategies to business owners across the UK and Europe. We don't niche. We do it across the board. We have membership levels. We have seminars and events. We have a high end $15,000 a year coaching group. It's the model you're pretty familiar with, I guess. In terms of the story, well, my story is I started off my professional life in radio. I grew up with a passion for communication, which maybe this is also where the interest in mindset started because when I look back, there's kind of some interesting links. So I had all sorts of interesting things going on in the first few years of my life, including when I was about four or five, I set over and knocked my front teeth out, my two front baby teeth out. And if you've never had any front teeth, you can't really speak because nobody understands what you're saying.

4:13So by the time I got to that five, six years old, I was incredibly shy. I couldn't look people in the eye and I really had sort of stopped communicating. And I was sent to speech therapy and there's still a letter from this speech therapist to my mother. And the quote is Christopher will have a lifetime of problems communicating. And I have that up on my desk, the next one gold medal I got for my later radio broadcast in career. So somehow this all morphed into a fascination with communication and to cut a long story short. I ended up working in radio broadcasting, which was a still as a big passion of mine. So back then this is going back like 20, 25 years ago radio in the UK is very different to the US and back then. There was only one big radio station in London and I got to I got a job there. I was the morning news guy and producer and it was a big deal back then. I mean like the raw family you've listened to on the evening and the prime minister's family. So we had to become a pretty good at what we did. And I got into doing that very young and I did a lot very young.

5:14And I just started to get kind of itchy feet in my kind of mid 20s, I guess. And I just had that I just wanted to be entrepreneurial. I could only really carry on and go into management in the broadcasting. I didn't really want to do that. So I decided that I was rather good at what I do, which I was like one of awards and I really I'm a specialist compulsive. So there's only about three or four things in the world. Good at that. But radio broadcasting was one of them. So I thought great, I'll put up a radio sponsorship company and I'll use these great creative skills. And I know if I went and at some point I have that moment. I think probably that's on this call of had when I look in the mirror and I go, you know what you're you might be brilliant at what you do. But you've no idea how to get customers. You've no idea how to market. You don't really know what advertising is and that's probably what you got no money in the bank. So I then went on a sort of global tour back then really we had to come to the States to learn how to do all this. And I learned marketing really for myself, but then when I went back to the UK,

6:17clients started wanting help and that's how I kind of morphed into what I'm doing now. I originally was a consultant and then when the internet came along, the internet really sort of took everything to the next level. Now that hides a few years in the middle, which you refer to, which was a heck of a considerable lack of money. I'm not sure what the debt got to because I never actually counted it, but in in dollars, it was probably up in the $152,000 dollar area. And at that point, I kind of added to my knowledge. I already had about the marketing. I became again somewhat obsessive about learning about the mindset of how people who had achieved what I wanted to achieve had done it. So what is an entrepreneur in the air doing differently to me who is broke, not just in how they're running their business but in how they're running themselves.

7:17And alongside that, a real fascination with the subject of money, an in-depth study of how does money work, how does money move against something that you and I share a fascination with and interest with. And it was really that that got me out of where I was and I now run two very successful multi-million dollar businesses. I have a second business that's done for you business because I knew the marketing stuff when I was broke, but I was still broke. And the difference that made the difference was understanding the mindset and the mindset of that. That's such an important point. There's an enormous number of people who know the mechanics of things, advertising, marketing, selling, as well as the technical aspect of a business, and are somewhat mystified by the fact that they're still not doing well.

8:21And you know, there's this entire other box of non-technical things that matter has much or more, and that many people tend to devalue or even sort of think badly of, make fun of, and simplistically characterize as that positive thinking stuff. But it's hard to find somebody who's really kicking butt and taking names, who isn't invested in that, who isn't working on that. You also find your way to NLP, right? Yeah, so I got very interested in that about the same time. I also had a lot of my own stuff. We all have our stuff. I have my stuff. So I'm looking with tea out of the other thing without going into a 4-odd in session with you.

9:23I had six operations by the time I was 5 years old because I was born with no vision in my left eye. Until I had lots of operations. This is another reason I kind of ended up really shocked. And I grew up with no vision in that eye. And I started asking my late 10 years what I could do about it. And there's a street in the heart in London called Harley Street where all the top eminent surgeons are. And I went to 12 Harley Street surgeons. And everyone told me I was waiting my time. And one of them actually shouted at me. And what I ended up doing was I combined kind of natural vision approaches into natural, original therapy. But also I got involved in the... And when I say NLP, probably not the NLP that people think of as an LP. But I got to know John Grinder and Richard Bounder and the founders of it. I went to the core of it. And I really got deep into the connection between the conscious and the unconscious mind. You're unconscious mind-runger body. You're unconscious mind-runger emotions.

10:23And again, to cut along so I started getting some vision. And I started improving my vision. Now I've done something that's supposed to be completely impossible. And so that was a very powerful metaphor. When I hit business problems or debt problems and even today when I wanted to business challenges or problems, they kind of paled into comparison to what I was able to achieve myself. So yeah, that's how I sort of stumbled on an LP. And again, I became a bit obsessive about it. If you learn it from the right people, it's an extraordinary tool. So tell me, so you work now coaching entrepreneurs and business owners. You have obviously those who make great strides. And while they are with you, multiply size earnings, revenues, et cetera. And I assume you have some that kind of never get their act together and come and go relatively unchanged.

11:29Probably not at the top level of the business, but at the other levels of the business. And it gets us to the perpetual mystery of what's the difference? How is it that two people in the same business at opposite sides of one, then one can get very, very rich and the other one in the same period of time can still be where they were at the very start? What do you find? And maybe what frustrates you the most trying to get people to get their act together? Well, it's obviously a huge subject, but I can give you kind of three big is, if I've got a chunk of time to give you the three big is up. The first one is what I call unconscious ceilings. So I came across this when I had my first sort of high-end group.

12:32So I had a kind of similar to your platinum to 10-end groups. I did the 20 or 25 people paying you 20 or 25 grand to meet three times a year, sit around the table and sort out their businesses. And they were successful people, several of them were running multi-million dollar businesses. And they all got used out of that group, but as you said, they had very different results. And what I saw, and it was just crystal clear very, very quick, we all have a ceiling, a limit to what we unconsciously believe we can or will or should achieve. I believe we all have that limit, including you and I. You and I are probably, probably, hopefully, recently consciously aware of what that limit is. I, for example, don't want to spend the next year, the year is growing 100 million dollar business. I don't want to do it. It's a blow, etc., etc. The problem comes when people consciously think they want millions and millions,

13:36but they're not unconsciously alive. So if you stop 100 people in the street and say, would you like to win a million in the lottery, 100 will say, yes, the reason none of them will do it will end up as millionaires, or probably no more than one out of 100, is they don't have the kind of unconscious alignment. So we, through early beliefs, mostly end up with this kind of ceiling that's either what we believe we can achieve, deep down, and believing you can achieve something deep down is different to wanting something, or it's a ceiling of ethical moral beliefs around success. This is a bit different culturally in the UK. We have more negative hangups about success and wealth in the UK than in the US, but I think it may exist everywhere around the world. And if you don't become consciously, now you can change that unconscious ceiling, that limit. But if you don't become consciously aware of it, it will sabotage you.

14:38If you go to a running situation where, as you say, somebody has the knowledge, and they know what to do, but they don't do it, they're sabotaging because they're hitting the ceiling. And they don't know why it happens, but things just start going wrong. So that's one, and I can talk for hours about any of these, so I feel very compassionately later. The second is what I describe as a lack of intent. I think there's three ways for going for anything in life. One is sort of wanting something. Again, we all want to be rich and we all want to be successful. It's better than not wanting, but it's reasonably useless on its own. The other is where you have pretty clear targets and goals. I'm running my business. Here we are coming to the end of the year 2015. I want to achieve an X income sales profits in my business. That's kind of a goal or a target. That's much better than most, but in my experience, it's not enough. The third is what I call intent.

15:39Intent is you're going to do it. You are going to achieve it. I love the Stuart Wilde analogy from that great book, The Trick to Money of Having Sam, where he says, if you're swimming along the bottom of a swimming pool and something grabs your ankle, how much ferocity and determination and strength, what's your intent going to be to get away from that grip and get back to freedom? I think it's the same with us as entrepreneurs. If you don't have that intent, that absolute, and this isn't positive thinking, this is a whole state of mind and state of being, then that's the other reason it doesn't happen. The third, and you said, what's the thing that really frustrates me? It's the difference between people who dabble and people who are into mastery. I think there are only two types of entrepreneurs. I think there are people who dabble and there are people who are into mastery.

16:39And what frustrates me is when people come up to me at seminars and say, you know, I'm thinking of, maybe I've told them to go and learn Google AdWords or something. I'm thinking of doing it and what we're going to do is we're going to spend the next six months getting our website together and then we're going to do this, and then have a holiday, and then maybe I'm going to let you know, that's pure dabbling, and most of the population dabble. And if we're going to have a honest conversation about this, even successful entrepreneurs, you can do pretty well dabbling because your competitors really haven't got a clue. So you can do pretty well dabbling, but the red, the top of the tree are committed to mastery. They would do whatever it takes, and that's extraordinarily rare. But it's there for the taking for anybody who wants it. You know this, Dan. I try at least once a year to come to one of your events. You did a direct mail training seminar. A couple of years ago in Cleveland, and I decided to go to it.

17:41And people said to me, because people said to me, well, why are you going there? Because I do a lot of direct mail. I don't claim your expertise or experience, but I've done a lot of mail for millions of pieces. I know what I'm doing. The reason I want to come is because I don't want to, you might have some nuance. You might have done some test, but I don't want to miss out on. So I chose to go to your event in Cleveland, flying across the United States. I can't remember where it was, but some tornado or something here. And we landed in the middle of nowhere the afternoon before Dan's event. We're in the middle of nowhere. Sometimes I need a little airport. I went out to the counter and I said, I need a flight to Cleveland. And they said, well, the next flight's not to the morning. You'll get into Cleveland lunchtime. I said, well, that's no good. I've got to be there first thing in the morning because Dan's starting eight o'clock. I might miss something. Well, no, sorry. There's nothing you can do. And I stood in the middle of his airport. I thought, I don't have any choice. And I got my cell phone out. And I googled private jet for the wherever I was in the middle of nowhere. I pressed the button.

18:41I said, I need a plane. I've got to get to Cleveland tonight. They said, stay where you are. We're sending a limo. We're sending a limo. We're taking you to Cleveland. That seminar cost me, I think, was $18,000 just to get through. But to me, there wasn't any option. That's mastery. That's mastery as opposed to doubling. And the thing that drives me nuts. And very frustrating for people who've had their smart enough to be open to new thinking and new ideas of the approaches. They're smart enough to buy products or go on seminars. But for some reason, something, and they're not bad people, but something in their psychology is stopping them from really, really mastering the subject. Yeah, and I think you can often judge somebody and predict their future based on how easily they are stopped and disrupted.

19:42And the story you just told is very parallel to one I tell often about flying across country on a red eye and using helicopter and all to get to a seminar on time in order not to miss a word of the first speaker who I really wanted to hear. And at the end of the day, I walked out of there with less than a page of notes. But one of the things in the notes was well worth it even though at the time I could heal afford the expense. And at least you, in this case, are well past the point of that being an economic issue. It's more an emotional issue about do I want to spend 20 grand to get from point A to point B in order not to be three hours late. But I think I find most people are very easily disrupted, derailed, stopped, and that's really what they don't get where it is that they set out to get.

20:49And the thing is that it doesn't take much to get in their way. Except there's nothing you can do sir way too easily. And some of that I think is sort of conditioned behavior that your people are conditioned to believe that there are all these circumstances beyond their control and that there are authorities that they have to bow to and to accept. And it seems like the highly successful people basically ignore all of that. When you say culturally that there's a little more success reluctance or success intimidation in the UK than there is here. What do you mean?

21:54The way it's often described in Britain, it's changed from what but when I was growing up, if you saw a Rolls Royce it would often have a scratch down the fries because if people saw that sort of demonstration of wealth they would attack it. So there's that side of it, there's a perception that people, I don't know nobody particularly likes being sold to generally but we're very very touchy in the UK about being sold to. So therefore there's a whole kind of thing around money and wealth. And there's just the kind of the wartime post-war spirit of the UK that kind of got us through rationing and all that kind of thing is about sort of toughness through. We're proud of our toughness through adversity as opposed to being driven by success whereas you're a country that like didn't really exist not long ago and look what you've created in how many years it is. So you have in your culture this drive towards success and achievement we have more a drive to sort of get out of bad situations.

22:58Well I so that's I often say that one of the bad things about being broke but resourceful is that you can get so good at being broke that it stands, no skill stand in the way of the skills you need to be prosperous. And I was certainly once there. And when you talk about entrepreneurs being able to do pretty well just dabbling, you're right. And that is a skill set in and of itself that that gets in the way then of the skills of mastery. And so it's because in Java it's particularly true by the way if you link this in the marketing it's particularly true because of what you can now do online. I mean if you look at things like Google AdWords that system is set up and I spent three million dollars of my own money on Google AdWords. One of the things I'm pretty good at the whole system is set up so that the mass of people who come on them and don't really know what they're doing do well enough to keep going.

24:08But what they've done so brilliant is within the system they've also built it's in there if you want it for the high achievers to really do well. I mean a great Google AdWords appetizer will probably do about 10 or 15 times better than everybody else. But there's a lot of things now you can do quickly and pretty effectively online successfully which is great. But again if you're off the frustration with oh my god if you would only master this subject you know when I learned AdWords it was I mean it's a room on a Friday afternoon and came out on the Monday morning. I think all I did in the tween was watch the sopranos and I'm just total obsession about that. So I interrupted but it is sort of an important thing around the internet world these days. You know the margin so when you say that somebody really zeros in on it and is obsessed with it and really learns how to do it will do 15 times better than most.

25:15I just saw a statistic actually I think it was earlier today when I was taking my lunch break that here the top the top 20% earners in taxable income do seven times better in income than the bottom 20% and these sort of big. So if margin differences exist in pretty much every business every field every population group you would put together where if somebody takes the trouble to get more knowledgeable smarter more capable the return on that time invested. So the return on that energy invested is such a big multiple that I mean that's a big key to to well through earnings at least if not through equity.

26:28So I in my own professional practice is copywriter and consultant. I mean the last so last week the two contracts that were signed here with clients one is for 128,000 and change and the other one is for almost $80,000 in change. And earlier today somebody will be the right copy and speak it in an event. I didn't even have to ask they put a $75,000 guarantee against 33% of the revenue on the table and my field is full of people who I have a 10, 15, 20, 25 times spread between what I bill and what they do. I'm not 15, 20, 25 times better smarter more capable. In fact, they're close. It's that last you know 10 yards to the goal line of mastery level understanding that they stop short and in this particular competency I didn't.

27:48And yet it's multiple is far greater than the proportion of difference in our skills. I think that's true in everything don't you? Yeah, I met somebody in the summer who was she's a nutritionist and she'd worked with the Olympic team I think in the athletics. And I said to her like you know when you watch on TV you do get this impression that people are either gifted athletes to a certain extent or not I said but I just have this niggling that watch the truth. She said the truth is you can tell when in a minute when they walk in you can just tell from their attitude for the people who got gold the minute they walked in they were bombarding her with questions they wanted to know everything they was to know about how this right and then that one could give them this edge over that edge they researched it then understood it. They lived and they believed it and yes, so absolutely I think it applies across the board and it definitely definitely applies to our world. I mean when you go back to Google when you look at Google. There's results there's three results top left and there's about seven or eight down the right hand side.

28:54The ones top left do get 10 times 15 times more clicks and the ones on the right and it's it's it's sitting there in every single field just waiting. Just waiting to you know to be taken me you look at them like Kevin spacey and you just think like just an amazing actor and again it must be the gift but the Kevin spacey story is that he he was a theater and there was there was the director of the play was about the director of the game. He was about the director of movement that he really wanted to be in but nobody knew who he was and the woman next to him had an invite in her bag to the after the reception it was sticking out of the handbag and during the place you fell asleep and so he stole it out of the bag got into the reception and when a gap came you know on the director's table I went and said next to him and asked for the you know audition on the rest of history so you don't you know don't fall into the thing I'm thinking it's all about you. I'm thinking it's all about about talent in fact in our world we all know people who we probably think they're more talented than who would be impacted on us sometimes so absolutely it's there for the taking I think is the message.

30:04Well I certainly know a lot of people think they're much more talented than I do aren't doing it nearly as well and they may be right about talent. It's it's more about this whole beyond the base level of capability that almost everybody in a field shares it's that extra in this case willingness to steal the woman's invitation. There's a great heist story when he was a good CEO at Disney of him dragging four executives into the middle of the night in dark clothes to climb over a fence to go see what universal was building in their theme park that they had under wraps. These stories are sort of normal among the abnormal they are almost every I just read this great book about Edison and these are guy by the way you guys have lights because of them.

31:16Thank you very much you have come to because of us yeah well yeah if you guys had no Martin Unison in red. We don't be in trouble. This great book about Edison and you know the general perception of him is as a great inventor but if you really study Edison that's probably the least of what he brought to the table. He himself and he was not a humble guy but he himself characterized his skill level has a engineer and a technician has adequate but it's everything else he did and that he did to a to a greater extent that he was clever about smarter about he was really the first. If not the first one of the very first American entrepreneurs to actually do personal branding and to make it make a difference whether you were getting this particular device from from an Edison company versus any other company because of your understanding of the man of Thomas Edison.

32:39So when you now coach what is the process look like for you like with somebody new who enters the car del world for the first time. So how are you trying to get traction to get them moving in a new or better or faster direction. Well on the surface we're providing knowledge and information so on the surface we're providing is how you do Google AdWords is how you do Facebook is how you do your direct mail etc etc etc. But if you look at anything I'm doing for more than about five minutes in build to every level is everything that we're talking about and I made the decision and I think you follow a similar course and I've probably got it asked advice from you that with a few exceptions I do some courses sometimes on advanced thinking and related fields but generally speaking I don't promote it as part of what I do but it's just kind of in about in built there from from from from the beginning.

33:48So around any around any kind of training or knowledge or information I pack it with metaphors examples of success you know real life things that they can relate to and whenever I can I I have the conversation that we're having here sometimes if it's like if it's my private coaching group will do sessions on this if it's a kind of lower level we just incorporate it. So I think it's a way to enter the conversation but it is just just hammering away at people that the difference that makes a difference is it's mindset one of the I suppose to specifically answer your question one of the things I aim to do and it is because it's tough to change other people's belief systems but it's not impossible one of the things I'm trying to do is to raise people internal unconscious belief about possibility. And I'll do that I'll do whatever it takes to achieve that either through examples and stories the best way to change someone's belief is to give them an experience which is why I and you and everyone in this fully on this call who specifically those of us in info marketing obsess about trying to get people to implement because important to understand implementation is it's not just a result and the success and the money in the bank it's a shifting belief system that happens it's a way to change the way that I'm doing it.

35:16So what I'm focusing on very strongly all the time is beliefs if you can shift someone's beliefs you can shift and change their lives. If I'm doing on a more personal basis if people are open to it then you can do some really cool stuff. If you're one to what so some of the advanced NLP and related fields have belief change processes you can spend an hour or two with somebody and I mean literally you can go through and you can show them how to reprogram their thinking their mindset and their belief systems I did a lot of that early on in those difficult years and it absolutely makes a huge huge difference. And as I said at the beginning you know we all have our stuff and the idea that there is some kind of split between our professional working lives and our personal lives and they are separate I think most of us are the level of this group probably know how insane that is.

36:19There's a very strong overlap and so I do a lot of things probably more under the radar but I guess the number one is I'm I'm focusing on beliefs if you can shift the belief system you can do you can do amazing things. I'll ask you one last thing that is more specific since you brought it up and that is marketing specific. So what do you what's something you think you really understand that a lot of people don't about online and what's something that serves you very well that you still think a lot of people don't understand about offline. Wow if I had to pick one I guess it's going to be an answer that people have heard before but with online it's just the commitment and the obsession about testing which goes back to our earlier conversation.

37:24I know we all know what testing is but I don't actually see huge numbers of people we probably have about 40 or 50 different different tests going on at the moment and that's fairly average for us. So that's one thing if you want me to talk about the shiny I tell you a shiny new thing which I think is very very interesting. We're having some fascinating results with YouTube so YouTube have created this new system of advertising where your ad your video appears before the video that someone's watching on YouTube and if you've been on YouTube you'll know that they can skip people can skip the ad and you don't pay if they skip the ad. So we've got this this phenomenal way of reaching people in a very targeted way so YouTube advertising is done through Google AdWords. You've got all the amazing targeting that you've done on Google AdWords. You've got this additional bonus that you only pay when people choose to watch your ad which by the way creates a fascinating thing with the ad because we've all grown up trying to create ads that get people's attention and keep them reading and watching the ad.

38:36While we're now playing with ads where we're spending the first 15 seconds trying to get rid of people because if we can get the not very interested people to go away we have to pay for them so that's fascinating. And they are really interesting. That's very interesting. It's very reverse psychology. And the other thing is Google don't care how long your ad is because there's no limited inventory like in the 15 minutes whatever it is of time on the TV. So your ad can be 30 seconds or 3 minutes or 7 minutes or 10 minutes. You don't pay anymore. They don't care. So everything we all know about long copy works and longer videos tend to work. It's very early days but it's a pretty extraordinary system. The thing I know about offline that most people don't know is that you should be doing it. And I know you do this again and again and again but it's a point worth I think reinforcing.

39:37So I'm known primarily and I spend more time I guess training people in online than offline. I have spent the last three months I spent 70% of my time over the last three months focusing on direct mail, print advertising and TV advertising. And if I can just hammer home to those of you who are living down the world and familiar with him or those of you who just come across him more recently. When you hear Dan encouraging you to work on offline to do direct mail to not be dependent on online. These are not the much rings of an old Fadi daddy who doesn't like modern technology. Well they might be a bit but they're generally not. They're also the best, best business marketing advice you can get. Everything that's great about online is also potentially a problem.

40:37Facebook's amazing. I spend all my time telling our members and customers you're not doing Facebook but you're to advertise to existing customers, your nuts. It's this kind of crazy and market system. It's dead cheap because no one's really doing it properly. All that also makes it somewhat unstable and somewhat unpredictable. And there's a lot of people in our world who've been the last year talking about how they've built the businesses on just based on Facebook. I guess a dangerous thing to do. So I spend all my secrets, I spend more time on offline marketing than I do on online marketing even though I spend most of my time training people in online marketing. I mean I've watched you really master Google ad words and then just focus on direct mail and ring that out so that you have the super grip on it. Then Facebook and you probably of all of the info marketers I work with you probably have the most balanced attack on your market of anybody I know.

41:48And it's tough and it's hard working. It goes back to everything we've been talking about so far. It's taken far longer than I would have liked it to. It's involved far more failures than I would have liked it to. And it's still not perfect. But we're running some TV ads. We're making TV work for us at the moment. And all I can say is the feeling you get when you make offline work is different to the feeling you get when you make online work. Because no matter how much money you make from your Facebook or your Google, somewhere there your subconscious knows that it might not be that tomorrow. And that isn't the case with direct mail and it isn't the case with a TV radio and print. So I have that obsession because of you so I'm extraordinarily appreciative of that. One quick last question. Looping back a little bit to the event. So it's called the sovereignty summit. What does sovereignty mean to you?

42:52The sovereignty means a very unpolitically incorrect conversation about being elite. The whole thing around the 1% and you have your protest there. We have them here outside our parliament and outside St. Paul's Cathedral. I get it. I understand it and I understand people's angst about the unfairness. Maybe it isn't fair but surely it makes more sense to look at the 1% and say how do I join them? And so to me sovereignty is what are the equivalents now the Lord and ladies of Downton Abbey. So the people we see on the TV series achieved their wealth through heritage. They inherited it. The people now achieving that wealth who are living in the multi-million dollar pounds, mansions in London or New York or Los Angeles wherever it may be. They are working for it and they're achieving for it. And they are the kings. They are the Lords. They are the ladies.

43:52But they haven't inherited it. They've been everything that we've been talking about here today and more. So to me sovereignty is it's the new royalty but it's a royalty that you can choose to join. Whereas in the past you never ever could. Cool. All right Chris thank you for your time and I appreciate you being on the call and for everybody. Thank you for being on the call. Have a great rest of the day everybody. Thank you for listening to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast with Dan Kennedy. If you love hearing it on these lost Dan Kennedy talks and speeches and calls then please let someone else know about this podcast. That's how you can help it to grow. And the more it grows the more free Dan Kennedy we can bring to you. Also Dan would love to give you the most incredible free gift ever designed to help you make maximum money in minimum time. Now this free gift comes with almost $20,000 in pure money making information for free just for saying maybe you can get this gift from Dan right now at nobsletter.com.

44:53Not only we get the $20,000 gift you also need a subscription to two marketing newsletters will be hand delivered by the mailman to your mailbox each and every month. One from Dan Kennedy and one from me Russell Brunson. To get this gift in your subscription go to nobsletter.com right now.