466 | Early Spring New River Smallmouth Fishing Secrets Revealed

0:00Hey everyone, quick announcement here of Fish and DMV. I just want to let you know the reason we're able to produce so much content and stay up on all the late breaking stories, like what's going on on the Potomac River with the sewage spill is because of donations from Patreon club members. This show is for the people and by the people. And it wasn't for all of my supporters on Patreon. None of this really would be possible. For $8 a month, you can help keep the show alive. And I need your help. We need more supporters in 2026 to help keep everything going. All Patreon supporters will receive. 20% off their orders to tactical fishing company. 15% off their orders to super blue stuff. Some of the best pain relieving cream on the market. 10% off their orders to tiger crankbaits. 5% off their orders to Jake's bait and tackle. You'll get access to our members only Facebook group. You'll get access to ad free episodes of the show. Members only content that's exclusive to you guys. Patreon member giveaways and of course, access to our four month long fishing tournaments that we have through 2026. You get all of this, all of this,

1:01and you get to help this show continue in 2026. Link in the episode description down below. Thank you so much. You're listening to Fishing the DMV with your host, Thomas Sarons. Fishing the DMV is brought to you by Jake's bait and tackle. Located in Winchester, Virginia. Tactical fishing company and fishing protect. Located just outside Williamsburg, Virginia. That doesn't get you jacked up. I don't know what will. Good evening everybody. Welcome back to Monday Night Live. It has been a while. And now that we are finally, finally, finally here into spring season, everything is starting to detall. All of our smallmouth rivers are starting to flow finally. And we are six days away from daylight saving his time. I have on the man, the myth, the legend, Ethan Stone of New River Guide Service. He is in the place that I finally always call Jurassic Park because it is compared to the rest of Virginia and Maryland. It's very rural. And you can catch some freaking dinosaurs. So we're going to be talking about some spring fishing here and what the New River is up to.

2:03And so as always, with these Monday Night Lives, I'm giving away gift cards to Tactical Fishing Company and Jake's bait and tackle. So please, please, please, please, please, get your good questions in there. I will let you know at the end of the stream what the good questions are and then message me after the show and you can get your gift card. So without further ado, the man, the myth, the legend, Ethan, how are you doing tonight, sir? Hey Thomas, good. How are you? I am doing wonderful, my man. How has life been down there right now as we're getting out of winter into spring? It's been good. I mean, it's been cold here. Like it's been everywhere. Kind of one of the colder winter's I can remember, especially kind of late January and February with all the snow and ice and stuff. But we kind of thought out the ice melted off the river about two weeks ago. I was on the river the last three days. I have my first guide trip coming up on Thursday

3:04and then after that, it's kind of full go all ahead. What do you do in the off season to kind of prepare? I mean, and for people that don't know, what is your technical off season? I guide for small mouth through about the middle of November. And then I work hard. I work a lot of days between March and mid November. So I kind of take the holiday season off, and then I kind of do the fishing shows like you do. In January, we did three fishing shows. And then February, man, I love to fish. February is usually kind of my time that I get to go out and fish for myself. And I mean, there are good February's this year. Obviously, you couldn't hardly get out at all. And then just kind of a lot of maintenance, just making sure not only your fishing gear, but my raft and trailer, making sure everything's good to go,

4:06because once you get doing five, six trips a week, you can't really afford equipment malfunction, putting you behind schedule. How, so Travis Eden of Shenandoah, who I've been friends with for the past like five or six years, man, he's been doing what you do with a raft forever, like 50 plus years. Do you plan on, do you want perfect world to do seven days a week? Or do you try to have like a rest day to like drink some electrolytes? Like what is a good happy mix? I take a few rest days, a few. Once I start on Thursday, I only have two days off until the end of March. And then I'm booked up, I think all, but four or five days in April, and I'm not really looking for more bookings. I'm going to keep those days off, but I mean, you just, I mean, you have to be smart, but you also, I mean, that's part of like we were just saying. I kind of give myself a couple months off, you know,

5:08so you got to work hard for the other time, you know. And just, I mean, I have some great clients, a bunch of great people, a ton of great people that I love fishing with and the new reverse, just such a special place in the spring. It's hard for, sometimes I'll be like, I'm not booking any more days in March, and then somebody I really like is like, you know, you got anything in March, I wonder. And I have a hard time saying no, sometimes, but you just got to be smart. I mean, I don't, I don't push it. I come home, eat my dinner, get some rest, you know, just being smart. And getting that, I have an outboard on my raft now and that helps a ton. I mean, just kind of the wind, I mean, the wind just kills you, being able to, if it's just low and upstream 15 miles an hour, being able to just motor on through it. And, you know, just some big long dead holes, just motor and through, that's made a big difference.

6:11If you guys don't know, please just type in new river fishing because we come up on Google like in the first three or four, I've had Ethan on a couple of times. So we're gonna do a couple of basic softball questions that have been mentioned a thousand times on previous shows, but with the new river, for people that aren't familiar with it, what would be a quick little sit rep on the new river compared to like other places in Virginia? Just big fish, I mean, a ton of big fish, I'm not sure if you saw the article that DWR came out recently with like the citation tallies by river for small mouth, you know, the new was first at like 130. And the James was next with less than 50. I mean, my boat saw 138 citations last year, you know? I mean, not all citations get registered. I know the true number of citations in the new was way, way, way, way more than 130. But even so on that data set, you know, just even in the registered citations that the new has 130 in second place

7:14is all the way down at 48, just kind of tells you what you need to know. And, you know, probably less people fishing than new. You know, probably less anglers, you know, per, so for it to still have such a lead is pretty amazing. And just like multitudes of good water, I mean, like we regularly fish about 70 miles of river and it is all good water, just it's real good habitat. So, yeah. It's, you guys don't know. I'll put a link in the episode description. I also had the biologist on last year to do their sampling of the new river. And it's crazy because I call it Jurassic Park and I mean that in a very loving way because it is rural and the fish that are that old, they're dinosaurs and it's crazy. The scenery compared to the James in certain other places is them. You guys know, I live close to Epipatomic, which is wild because it's between Washington, D.C. and the richest counties in the world. And when you get on the water, it's crazy because surrounded by cities but there, this place, remote,

8:14it doesn't usually get the same amount of pressure. When it comes to the fishing pressure though, are there a lot of tournaments that happen in this time or during the year on the new or do you have it pretty much to yourself? I mean, there's like a few people that do kayak tournaments, a few people that do like John Boat tournaments. But there's not a ton of fishing pressure, especially on weekdays. And I don't know. I think I kind of have a unique advantage in the raft because like the John Boat and Jet Boat people are cut off from a few certain areas of the river that just have too many rapids and riffles. And then the kayakers can fish some of that water but it's hard for them to fish big stretches of river like I do and cover a lot of water like I do. So it's kind of the best of both worlds in the raft.

9:17Is it more kayaking pressure or jet boat pressure? I know up where I'm at, where you're getting it up, we're talking about the Susquehanna jet boat country. Is that a thing down there? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it is. It honestly depends where on the river you're fishing. There's like some big long kind of easy water that's really popular with the jet boats and then there's some areas that are kind of really shallow and those are popular with the kayakers. But there's both jet boats and kayaks for sure. That's crazy. It is, if you guys are watching this down the road, it is the second day of March basically when we're doing this video. Right now, what is the water temperature that you're kind of seeing and what was the ice like up where I'm at like the Susquehanna for all my Patreon supporters? Literally frozen solid. So I fished the past few days before today. Yesterday, it was about 41 when we started fishing

10:18and it was about 44 and a half when we ended. The day before I fished a section that runs a little warmer usually and it got to 46 by the end of the day. Today was cold, real cold here. So it'll probably blunt back down. But I was telling you before the show, I mean, it's starting about this Thursday. It's like 70 degrees for a long time, like the week and that'll get things going real fast. And the ice, like you said, I mean, the ice, we had like the longest stretch of super cold temperatures that I can really remember since I was living here and it is rare for the river to freeze like completely. I mean, I haven't seen it in like the seven or eight years I've been guiding, you know, we'll get like the ice on the edges where it's like kind of hard to launch a boat or anything. But I mean, there was no open water for a while this year

11:20which is uncommon. That's wild. Well, what does a question that I got, I saw in a couple of comments sections, is what does ice do to the fish? Does it hurt them? Does it affect how quickly the pre-spons starts to get into motion? Yeah, I mean, I don't think it like affects, I mean, it all comes down to like water temperature with the pre-spons. So it really depends on like the weather you get after the ice, you know, I mean, it'd have to be pretty dog on warm to get the water from when it's frozen, you know, to when they want to be in pre-spons. But I wouldn't say like, I'd say if you had a late ice and then like a crazy warm front, it wouldn't, it wouldn't push the pre-spons back in general. But in terms of ice, like I don't think it, it makes too much of a difference, except I've heard my, my toe god here at New River Outdoor Company, Britt Stautamire, who's been guiding a long time.

12:22He, he always claims that like the biggest, worst fish kill he ever saw on the news, because of ice that like immediately went into a flood. He said we had like a super cold winter, like this winter. And then the, the weeks on end of cold was broken up by like a three or four inch rain storm that rained on a bunch of snow that was still on the ground. He said the river went from like frozen over to flood stage, like almost instantly. And he said they were like big like ice chunks, like churnin' and churnin' up the river. And I think he said that was in 2008. And he said the couple years after that were some of the slowest years of fish. And he experienced, he kind of says he thinks it's so good the past few years because we've gotten far enough away from that 2008 winter that he says was so hard on. So I don't think, I don't think ice that, that I think the river could totally free solid. And as long as it just kind of naturally melts away

13:24instead of getting like pushed and churned away by a big flood of water, I don't think it matters, really. That is really cool. So we do have a question here on the old Instagram, which is how does this warming trend affect the power bite? Which is what he said. I'm thinking he's saying power fishing bites. So chatterbaits, swim jigs. Are you still dinking and dunking once the ice like goes away or can you actually start really leaning into them? I mean, like I said, the water is about 44 now. We were kind of catching them. We were catching them on jerkbaits, but mainly on jigs on the bottom earlier this week. But consistently over 45 degree water temperatures, what I look for for like a really good power fishing bite. They'll bite a crankbait for sure below 45. And that's wild.

14:26But for something like a chatterbait or like a mag draft, like I like to throw, I kind of wait until 45, so those few degrees make that much of a difference. They do. They do. Yeah, I mean it. If you think about it, like you know, I start throwing top water when it's in like the low 50s. You know, and when it's 40, it's like they'll only hit jigs and tubes, you know? So I mean, you're looking at like the full spectrum almost, you know, separated by like 12 degrees of water temperature. So it does make make a lot of difference. But kind of my go like the 45 to 55 is go time free spawn on the new, you know, before 45, it's kind of more of like a cold water winner bite, which can be good. I mean, it can be good, but it's usually more of those

15:27winter patterns. And then once it gets about 55, that tends to kind of not be good for the fish and during the free spawn. But if it gets really, yeah, if it gets about 55 before the fish spawn, it's like they, it's just like they lose their aggression. They just kind of get real lazy. You'll get a bunch of short strikes. So I'm excited for this warming trend, but I generally like it to stay pretty cool because it drags out that free spawn window for longer. Why do you think that is? Why do you think that that huge jump in temperature basically turns the bite off? I don't know. I don't know. It's always been weird to me. It's just like, it's like it's just like that get lazy. It's, it's, people will probably be arguing with me in the comments section about this. And you know, my experience is mainly with the new river,

16:30you know, so I'm not going to speak to all bodies of water. But I'm a believer that kind of like fish spawn, water temperature is a factor, but it's not the biggest factor. Like I think fish really key on, key in on length of day and on moon fades to spawn. If it's real, real cold, I mean, it might push them back a little bit, but like a lot of people say like fish will start spawning at this water temperature. And I don't think that's true. I mean like fish know, I mean, we all know the weather pattern, you know, the like fake spring, you know, the real early warm front that warms the water up and then it knocks it back down. Fish know that that happens too. You know, fish kind of know what time of year it is based on length of day, you know, length of daylight it gets longer and longer. So fish, I mean, fish know if it's unseasonably warm,

17:35and they're not going to want to go up and spawn when they know the days are still real short, even though the water temperature is, you know, warm. So in my experience, fish on the new river, they spawn almost the same time every year. Like no matter if it's been a cold year or warm year, it's like the same time. And it's just, it's a weird bite to me when the water gets too warm before that time of year that they come up to spawn. It's almost like they're like, okay, I've fed up enough, now I'm just going to kind of wait here until I'm ready to spawn. But if it stays cold, they'll feed like all the way through, you know, when they spawn. So that's just what I've experienced here. I think with a lot of people in the year 45 to 50 degrees, they still think it's bone chillingly cold unless you're a river at. How long do you give a hole before you move?

18:35And it's, you're in it, so you understand that, but for people that don't quite understand it, because they think that cold water, you're sitting in one spot all day long, how long should you give a spot if you're new to it? Yeah, it just kind of depends on, you know, if you said if it's a new spot, you know, if you have history with the spot and you're like, there's always fish here, you know, you probably want to spend a long time. This time of year, when it's this cold, you got to make a few casts, you know, I mean, it depends on the size of the area you want to fish. A kind of trick of the trade is, like, analyze how the fish are biting. If you're fishing a hole and you get a bite, and it's like a good, hard, like, wow, that one really hit it. I usually think that then there's more fish around, because it seems like fish hit your bait harder

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20:39fish with confidence and make every cast count. Check out Tactical Fishing Company, link in the episode description down below. Every angler knows the feeling. Your shoulder burns after a long day of casting, your lower back and your knees feel super stiff from staying on the front of the boat. All day trying to fill out that limit. You love being out on the water, but your body pays the price. That's why I keep super blue stuff roll-ons everywhere I go. Tackle box, truck, home, glove box my boat. I've been using their products since I was young and the natural pain relief with the emu oil and herbs that works in about five minutes. With no harsh chemicals, no strong medical smell, just rub it on and get back to fishing. Spring season is almost here, so stock up now. All Fish and DMV viewers and listeners will receive free shipping off of their roll-on orders when they use the code fishing at bluestuff.com slash fishing or you can give them a call at 866-571-Blue. Again, you can use the website bluestuff.com slash fishing or call 866-571-Blue and use the code fishing.

21:41And if you're watching on YouTube, put your phone up to the screen right now and use the QR code and that'll take you right to the website. Thank you guys so much. I swear by this product and I think you'll like it too. All right guys, I wanted to give a quick shout out to our newest sponsor, Fishing Protek. They are located outside of Williamsburg, Virginia in Toronto, Virginia. If you're a serious angler and I'm talking about a serious bass angler, you have got to go check out this shop. They have one of the greatest collections of JDM, Tackle on the Planet. I'm talking Mega Bass, Depths, IMA, OSP. They got it all. And these are the bass that you're seeing on TV winning all those big tournaments. So if I were you, I would go down there and check it out, pick up the bait that's gonna win your next tournament. I'll put a link in the episode description to their Facebook, phone number, and address. Tell them, I sent you. There's probably other fish around. And even if you don't catch another fish on that bait, you might want to change baits or something, you know? Actually, yesterday I was fishing with my buddy, John, and we had a rough, rough start to the day. We ended up catching about 25 fish,

22:42but we only had two fish by like one, 30 or two o'clock. And we rolled into a spot and he was throwing a jig. And it was a tight, I mean, it was a tight eddy about the size of like a dinner table. And he threw his jig on in there and he was like, wow, it smoked it. And I was like, I bet you you're gonna catch another one out of there. And I mean, we caught three fish in like five hours. And he was like, really? And I was like, totally. And he threw back in there and caught another one on the next cast, you know? So when you get one of those hits that's like, man, that was a good hit. Usually that means that there's other fish around. There you guys have it. So there's a little bit of a science to it, definitely. But also just be, don't be afraid to move around. And the fact that they will actually hit moving baits at that cold temperature or something, I think you should take credence to. And also the size of the eddy, like I think it's crazy. Sometimes on the upper Potomacishando, like a stick, a rock.

23:42And the eddy is the size of your forearm. But then you also have those others that are like the size of a freaking Ford F-150. And that will dictate, I think, how much time it's been spent. Yeah, exactly. I mean, there's some spots that it just, you're like, oh yeah, that's a two-cast spot, you know? I mean, like, yeah. Let's see. We got Bag Chatter 10, The Blue Trailer Bank. Cool. Don't know what that means. I don't know what that means. And he goes on to something there. Okay, there you go. How much do you think, and we got B-Cal here? Guys, get all your questions in at the end of the show. I will let you guys know who won a gift card, by the way. How much do you think the water temperature will rise by next Monday? Um, I mean, so on the new river, by next Monday, that's like, you're gonna be three or four days of 70s. I'd say it'll be, if it was 40, if it topped out at 44 yesterday, I'd say by Monday, you don't be topping out at about 50.

24:45But, like, the new river takes a long time to warm up because we're a tailwater. Our water is coming from out of the dam at Clayton Lake. And it's coming from the bottom of the lake. So it's like, the water that's coming through the river is the bottom of the lake, where it's insulated from the, from the heat up, you know? So it will heat up in that, in that warm temperature, but it's, the new river takes a lot longer to warm up in the spring, and it stays warmer for the same reason in the fall, you know? Cause, cause it's kind of insulated from the weather changes. So the new river upstream of Clayton Lake is a lot warmer right now, because it's just like truly like river water, you know, whereas we're getting kind of like deep lake water. What's also fascinating about that is floods

25:47because I feel like because of the dam, it actually kind of helps with that. Like it takes a long time for that part of the river to blow out comparatively, right? Compared to if there was no dam. Yeah, I mean, it will. It does a lot less than other rivers in Virginia. I mean, obviously if it's a bad flood, they don't want the lake flooding, so they move water out. But like little like pop up rain storm, like those heavy summertime real heavy one day storms don't really blow our river out. Cause the lake kind of eats up and clears the water out before it comes to us. So yeah. Yeah, because I remember last year, I felt like from like April to like June, at least up where we're at the Shenandoah Upper Potentment, it was always high in muddy, like constantly cause it just never stopped. And I didn't know like if you guys kind of experienced that. Yeah, I know. So we're lucky like I would talk into people that said they hadn't been able to fish for like two months

26:50on the Shenandoah and the Potentment, you know. And I think I only lost like knock on wood. I think I only lost like two or three days to high water last year. That's so yeah. You know, that is so crazy. What is that like you said with that with the spawn? With how the new river sets up, what is considered spawning habitat for them? Like the Susquehanna, it's creeks, it's the back of islands. Does the new river even have any islands for them to get back up under? Yeah, yeah. We got islands, back islands is a good spot. We don't really have as many of the creeks like the Susquehanna does, but just like they like that hard rock bottom, like anywhere from like three to six, seven-ish feet. And they really, I mean, they like being in an eddy and they like being in like a solid eddy. And what I mean by that is like an eddy

27:52that would still be an eddy if the water came up, you know. So like maybe if there's a piece of rock that's sticking this far out of the water that's causing an eddy, they wouldn't like to be in behind that as much as they like to be behind like an eight foot boulder, you know. They like spots that they know they're gonna be protected if the river really rises, you know. Behind like real sturdy solid cover. Like an island. What is my view of saying, yeah. Like an island. Is it, is flow rate or turbidity something that you look at more? Like which one do you put more stock in? I mean, they're highly correlated, you know. I mean, in general, the higher flow rates gonna be a higher turbidity in general with exceptions. But I mean, I like a high flow rate

28:54and I like a pretty high turbidity too, especially in the pre spawn. I mean, it just like, I mean, in the pre spawn, the fish want to eat. I mean, they want to eat and feed up, you know. And the things that'll hold them back from eating are like them feeling not safe and secure, you know. Maybe because it's supersonic, bright, you know. I mean, on the new river, the bass are predators but they're also prey, you know. I mean, there's muskie, there's eagles, the ospreys, you know. When it's supersonic, low and clear, you know, they're a little scared to come out too far from cover. They can see your bait matter, they can see the line better. So I like when the water's high and it's a little turbid, you know, because then they're not scared to come out, they want to feed up before the spawn. What depth do they usually inhabit this time of year?

29:55Are they in the deep wintering holes? Are they starting to move up? They'll be starting to move up some. I mean, they're kind of venturing out of the winter holes at the warmest parts of the day but after that, more in front next week, they'll be really moving up. And the winter, like in the winter and really early spring, like right now, I do a lot better towards the end of the day because that's like the peak, that's when the water temperature will like peak for the day, you know. So like I said, the other day it was 41 in the morning when we got on, 45, you know, when we took off. Obviously they're going to bite better at 45 and 41. So I'm kind of dreading this time change to be honest because, you know, right now, the best bite is like the last hour or so of light, which is like four to five and 430 to 530.

30:56And now that's going to be whole hour later, 530 to 630. But yeah. When does the morning bite become a thing, you think? Is it really May, June, July plus? The first crack of daylight becomes a thing. Once the water gets like, once the water gets consistently above 45 degrees, they stop worrying about like the water temperature really at all. Like if the morning starts above 45 degrees, you know, that's good. And the morning always is going to have an advantage because it's like a low light time, you know. So like I kind of said earlier, it seems like about 45 degrees on the new rivers, this like magic switch where they like stop being worried about being cold. So in a few weeks, when the days start

32:00above 45 degree water temperature, that would be, you know, that's when the morning bite starts to be good. Especially when it's not that cold overnight, you know. I mean, you'll get those 28 to 30 degree nights like way late into April here sometimes. And those are usually a rough bite in the morning. But if it stays pretty warm overnight, that can be a good time. All right, guys. As always, please, please, please, get your comments and best comment on the night. I'll let you guys know the back. I've won a couple of gift cards here. We got, oh, I'm gonna start on the old Instagram, get some of these dialed in here. We got CM, go on. What are your top five baits and colors for this time of year? Five baits and color. If you don't have them, just go with your top. Good question. I, I'll kind of go like late winter early spring. My number one would probably be a jig. Let's hear how I got.

33:02I think I got some examples over here. So this is like what I was catching them on yesterday. Just kind of like your, your football jig and craw. I mean, that's a good one there. If they're, if the water's super clear, if they're short strike in your jig, I'll go to like a tube. Well, y'all know what it is, but two are the, the rival between the netrick and the tube is something I always like to highlight on this channel because it's my skin's versus cowboys. Growing yesterday, just a little like two and three-quarter inch. This is a blue rock tube jig and tube, jerk bait. Jerk bait is so good, it's all spring. I'm like the super early winter spring all the way through the spawn. Crank bait.

34:04And then once the water gets a little warmer, like 47, 48 degrees. I love throwing that mag draft. I love throwing a chatter bait, spinner bait. All those, yep. What's your tube set up? So I love my ALX rods. This is an ALX oxym trimmer. This is a great rod. It's like seven foot two, medium heavy. It's really sensitive tip, but it's a really strong rod. You can keep them out of those rock piles and ledges. And then I run 10 pound braid to 12 pound fluorocarbon and then either a quarter or a three eighth ounce jig head with your tube on it either. I usually throw a little one because I almost always throw a little one because if I'm throwing a big one, I'd rather throw a jig instead if that makes sense. Like the reason I'm throwing a tube

35:04is to be more finesse than a jig. So usually if I'm ever like, oh, I'd throw a bigger tube, I'd probably actually just switch to a jig. And this is also important for Puyla, I don't know. What is the new river, the new river like topography wise? Because I always, I joke like the Susquehanna is like a mile wide, but an inch deep. Is that kind of like what the new river is like for Puyla, don't know? It's deeper, I'd say, and not quite as wide. But it just has so many different topographies. I mean, there's some like real long slow pools and then there's some like really quick, riftly ledges. You got big class three rapids in some spots. Really defined by those rock ledges all throughout the river well. All right. All right, guys, we're going to get through all your questions here because we got 1,000 of them. Right now we got like 60 people watching on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube. We got Jake.hamfishing.

36:06What are the ramp conditions like that you put in slash take out at are are they a traditional boat ramp or more of a drop off to the river on the side of the road? A lot of them are more traditional boat ramps. We got a ton of good state access points on the new. There's a few little spots that I like to use where you just kind of throw in, but over the 70 miles of river that I fish, there's 10 plus good solid concrete boat ramps. All right. Can Cameron Johnson 73-47? Is there any fish or crawl? You would add to the new river to make the fish bigger if you could. Is there anything illegal that you would do to make the fishing better? In a hypothetical situation. No, I don't really think that there is. We've got bait fish. I would say the new is more of like a crawl

37:09and macro invertibit, macro invertibit kind of fishery. I mean, we have a few schools of bait fish, but I think they really key in on those craws. They eat a lot of like sculpins, like the stone cats. But I kind of like the way it is. I think it sets itself up good to like power fishing. I think, you know, if we had big schools of shad or shiners, it would almost make the fish a little weirder. But. Yeah, and then I know people are going to clip this piece here, but I know, and Jake Hartstrom is going to say this, but pound for pound, the new river has bigger fish than the Susquehanna when it comes to 20 plus inch fish. You know, let's look at the data points. The Susquehanna has a ton of fish in that mid range, like up to 18 to 20 inches. The new river has a ton over that. So I just, I don't know what else you need to do. Plus you have the rustic crawfish or the rusty crawfish. So you have that massive lobster that provides great food for them.

38:10Yeah, yeah, I mean, I agree. I mean, I have a lot of clients that do a trip with me every year and a trip on the Susquehanna every year. And they kind of say that their trip with me is, is they feel like they have a better chance than a 20 plus inch or, but that they trips up there, usually just insane quantities of fish, you know. It's so cool. And then again, one last thing you don't know, new rivers had like three state records, Virginia and West Virginia, like it has them historically. It does already have monsters in it. Yep. All right, let's see. Oh, here we go. Aaron J4793, even what temp, do you personally start throwing topwater? I start throwing it pretty early. It was pretty cool, but the first fish I caught on topwater last year was barely, didn't touch 22 inches and was right at five pounds. Like the first one I caught on topwater.

39:11But I looked for maybe 52, 53 degrees. And the first topwater bait I start throwing every year is a popper. And it almost is like a jerkbait a little bit. Like if you know, if you see the fish really moving up shallow, like less than two feet, if you just notice you're catching them real, real shallow, that popper is good. And if you kind of know where a fish probably is, you can just keep that popper there so long. You know, I mean, you can just give it a hard pop and then just pause it. And so usually the popper is the first topwater bait. I start catching them on and I look for maybe 52, 53 degrees, usually midish may, then a buzzbait works real good pretty soon after that. Right before they start spawning a buzzbait, can you real good?

40:13My question, is there a difference between a buzzbait and a plopper style bait? Cause I guess there's like 38 come as it has them now or is it just one has trouble hooks, one doesn't? And so right when I started guiding was like right when the whopper plopper was like taking off. I think. Like when it first came out and it was like the hottest thing for a while. And I hardly throw them anymore. Like I have completely come back to a buzzbait. I think almost like every fish on the river has been caught on a whopper plopper. I mean, it's just, I mean, like every person you see is throwing it, you know, I mean, and I mean fish are smart, you know, they remember how that thing looks underwater and that it wasn't real, you know? And I mean, they might not remember forever, but you know, and also they're seeing the exact same

41:15whopper plopper bubble trail probably coming over them like five times a day, you know? The only, this sounds like a little bit ridiculous. But one of my favorite times to throw the whopper plopper now is first thing in the morning in the middle of the summer, fish come like so shallow. And if you throw that big whopper plopper and it lands near them, it just scares them so bad that they hit it a lot of the time. And like on the new river, I hardly catch a fish on a whopper plopper after like the first three cranks. And so I almost completely switched mine out with a buzzbait, and I just think the buzzbait has gotten like so underutilized now that it's like back kind of, you know? And they know it's different. I mean, I usually throw one of those like,

42:16like I don't have one right now in my bag, but I throw like the skirtless one, you know, just where you put a plastic on it. And that looks a lot different than a whopper plopper to a fish in the water, you know? I mean, they know that those are two different baits. Yeah, again, it's the dichotomy between the angler and the fish where the fish knows with them. We just get so set in our ways, it's wild. And I get like the comparison like trouble, I've had this argument forever, like the trouble hooked by versus doing the buzzbait, short strikes and all that other stuff, but I agree with you. Like Cliff Bennett, who's a big river rat up where are, he thinks it is, it's fear. It's like within the first few cranks, you're in that skinny, riffle water in the summertime and you just hit them with that helicopter blade over their head and they react to it versus the buzzbait. But guys, good question. So David, you definitely, let's see. Okay, here we go. We got a question here.

43:16This is gonna be a good gift card question. David Vandoren, what's a good stretch to run a jet boat? There's a few good tools to run a jet boat. There's all through like the town of Radford, Virginia, it's easy jet boat and water. There's a big really popular boat ramp, white throwing boat ramp that's almost kind of like, it has a few like riffles and ledgers that are easy to run in there, but you can run multiple miles and both directions. The right up on Virginia DWR website is very informative about kind of what areas are easier for the jet boats and others. I think guys, on Instagram, I'll get to you guys question in a minute. There's a pilot up as well. Let's see, you've got another one here. Oh, the bag chatter's 10. Is there ever a time that you will fish straight braid

44:17to a glide bait? I don't, not really know. You probably could if the water was stained enough, but I usually fish my glides on fluorocarbon, but yeah. All right, let's keep on going here guys through these things. We got B-cow in the house. What size jerk bait do you like to use? I usually throw the big one if I'm like the normal size, the normal one tin. If it's like super, super clear water, super high pressure in sunny, I might go to the junior, but I mean, I grew up large mouth fish and more than small mouth fish and kind of, I think like I'm glad I did, because I think there's just like a little bit of like a preconceived notion in small mouth fishing

45:18that you gotta like do things smaller than the large mouth guys do, but like if you're fishing for three to six pounders, you know, you're gonna throw the same thing that you would for a three to six pound large mouth, you know, I mean, my buddy John and I were joking yesterday. Our best five went like 18 pounds yesterday or something and we were joking it like how much better we were doing than the last basalete series, you know, where they were fishing for spots and large mouth, you know, so I just like, if you wanna catch big fish, regardless of whether it's a small mouth or a large mouth, I mean, you throw big baits. So I really try not to downsize any of my presentations unless the fish like absolutely like tell me that I need to, whether it be not getting bites, getting short strikes, getting follows, but not bites, then I'll downsize, but I like to start,

46:19I start almost every day like everything full size. Hmm, there you guys have it. Oh, let's see, I'll save those questions for last. We have another one where's the other question. We had another one about glide baits I thought I saw. Oh, here we go, Lee Martins. I heard you say you like to throw a mag draft. Is there ever a consistent glide bait bite on the new river? So that's like gonna be my new thing this year. I've decided it is glide baiting. I try to stay ahead of the curve the best I can and I know people glide bait. I'm not saying I'm ahead of a curve on glide baiting, but just kinda in the new river, in small mouth guiding, I don't see too many people do it. And I kinda like the number one thing that kept me from doing it for a long time was the musky. I don't wanna get into buying expensive glide baits with so many musky around, but one hook set.

47:22Yeah, one hook set and you're gone, but this year I was talking about the ALX rods. They just came out with a new glide bait series, the swimmer series, they got I think four different sizes that they're all kinds of swim baits, but yeah, I'm gonna really try glide baiting more this year. I started doing it last fall and had some good luck on it. So I kind of bought a few more kinds of glides, got a better rod and reel for it. And I'll go for it a little more this year and have a better answer for that question next time, I guess. But I know there'll be a consistent bite on it. All right guys, we're gonna get over to Instagram before we finish out the show here. We got Kenek on, oh, so I guess someone's for me. Kenek says, Thomas, what are your plans for 2026? My plans for 2026 is to get ready for 2027. My goal I told myself is I would really like to be almost full time doing this so I can actually travel around

48:25and actually hang out with all you guys, but we need to make sure Patreon and my sponsorship list is up, so that's overall the goal is to do that because I'm tired of trying to hunt for a day job. I just wanna do this. So that's that. Oh, see the next question is for Ethan, Barry Sowers, where can I find the ALX rod you mentioned? ALXRods.com or just Google ALX rods. It'll be the first one that comes up. You could use code ALX Ethan to get 10% off and check out if you're interested, but I mean, I love my ALX rods, they are. What I like about them is there's just no guesswork. Like every rod is made for something specific, you know, so it's not like, like when you go to their website and look, he has a great search tool where like, you search what you're fishing with, and then it like, it tells you what rods, you know, work for that technique.

49:26So it's not like looking at the website like, should I be throwing an extra faster, just a fast? You know, it's just like, he makes a rod for a specific application and tells you in the description. So it's kind of takes all the guesswork out of it. Cody on Instagram asks, are you a two guy or a Nedra guy? Every time I come on your show, somebody asks this. Do I swear to God, it's a cult man it is. It's like about to lose 50% of your viewership and then I'm what I answer right here. So I'll hit it right down the middle. I like throwing a tube in the pre spawn and an ad rig through the summer. And that's like the actual answer. Like I throw a tube when the water's cold because I think the tube sits on the bottom better and people are gonna be like a heavy Nedrig who sits on the bottom fine.

50:27But it just my experience like a tube like sits on the bottom better whereas a Nedrig is better for kind of like bouncing in the current. And so usually when they're out of the current in the eddies in the winter and spring, I like throwing a tube and then in the summer where it when the water is quicker and I'm kind of drifting more in the current, I throw a Nedrig. And I actually think the Nedrig just like profile wise is not the same as a tube. A tube just seems bulkier. I'll add this question. Same setup though, rod wise and stuff or do you go with the different setup with a Nedrig versus a tube? I usually throw my tubes on a little heavier rod than I throw my Nedrigs just because I usually only throw like a quarter or three eight bounce tube. And then when I'm Nedrigging, I usually throw in like the one 10 or the one eight or something. All right.

51:28And then right down he's a fly fisherman. Yeah, that's that's, I don't know if that's hurtful or not. I see if there's that big, that big old thing. Oh, here's a good one. Again, on Instagram, do you ever use a wire leader to protect against Smusky? I don't because I feel like it sacrificed too many bass bites for you. So I'll just stay there. Now live with the consequences of my actions. I'll tell my clients like I'm giving you this glide bait under the agreement that if you see a musky tail in it, you're just crank it straight in. I don't think people appreciate you guys probably, well, I think it's actually proven with biologists. Like you have more musky like per acre than like the James does. Like you have a ton of musky. And then yeah, yeah, I think I'm not gonna have the numbers quite right. Yeah, it's survey a couple of years ago where it was like three and a half per mile on the new and one and a half per mile on the upper James.

52:29And that I think was like 40 inches or 38 inches or something. Not catch so many like 28 to 32 inches. Like the kind that makes you think you got like a giant bass for the first few seconds, you know. I mean, with the big ones, you could usually tell pretty quick it's a musky, but there's a lot of like, 30 inches that feel like it's gonna be a blast. All right, let's see. All right, guys. Andrew, you, Holman, 75, 11. I'm sorry if I butchered it. Just know your name is Andrew. Any tips for those new to fly fishing on the new river? Yeah, so we do guided fly trips too. So Ryan said, I am a fly fisherman. I am a little bit. Really? I recommend people come in the summertime. That's when we do a bunch of, that's the most fun time. I mean, they get on big topwater poppers, big topwater bugs,

53:32get out in the ripples with some streamers and stuff, but you can catch them all year, fly fishing on the new. I mean, like the real, I mean, I'm sure some people would be like, oh, you should be fly fishing in the free spawn. And you can. I mean, I think conventional is more successful than fly in the free spawn, but there's times in the summer where I think fly fishing can be just as productive as spin fishing. I mean, not to, this is kind of a long-winded tangential story, but go for it. Like when Nolan, when my buddy Nolan won the, won the Hobie on the Susquehanna, I mean, we were talking well before the tournament, like months before the tournament, he was like river fishing in July, like what do you do? And I'm like, man, in July, we catch some of our biggest fish on our fly fishing trips,

54:32throwing big topwater bugs on the fly is like how we catch. Like in July, I was like, I'd almost say you have, as good of a chance fly fishing as you do spin fishing, for a citation. And that, I mean, I had never, I've never been to the Susquehanna. I was just kind of saying how it is on the new. And so I mean, he did his research on kind of what baits are similar to like the type of flies that we throw and he found that gizmo. And then that was his bait that he like wanted on. So I mean, that fly fishing in the summer, anything that mimics, I mean, the water gets low and clear and they're just looking for something ultra realistic. So those topwater bugs that we throw, you know, qualify as such. Well, unlike largemouth, and maybe this is true for largemouths, when I extend, but not the same as smallmouth, elephants eat peanuts. I'll nukes some advice, like some stuff. Like the micro TRD, Nedrig and Tiny Tube in black matches

55:36larvae hatches better than anything on the planet. And it's just, it's tiny as crap. And on some of our rivers around here, the Shenandoah Potomac, it for some reason works better in the summertime. Don't know why. I just, I really think it has to do something about the way the larvae work. But those bigger smallmouth will freaking key in on those bites. It's just why I would think something that big would eat something so small. But they do. Well, to expand on what you're saying. Like right now in the pre spawn, the fish want to eat, like they want to eat. And they need to eat, you know, they need to, they're wanting to gain like a half a pound or a pound before the spawn, which is in a month and a half, you know. So you can really like take advantage of that by throwing like big baits, because like they, they're, they need to feed. And the summer, like you're saying, their metabolism gets so, so low. And they almost come, become, I mean, they need to eat to survive,

56:36but they, they are losing weight. You know, in the spring, they're gaining a pound, a pound and a half. And the, in the summer, they're losing weight, like crazy, you know. So that, what becomes more important to them in the summer, because they're kind of indifferent on eating. So like, it's like something that really fools them in the summertime, you know, is more effective. Whereas I feel like you don't want to be stuck doing that finesse thing in the pre spawn, because the fish are like wanting to just, getting like, gorge themselves, you know. So it is crazy, like the difference of baits you throw this year, this time of year versus what you'll throw in the summer. And you're right, huge fish do eat peanuts, especially in the summer. It's also like the conditions. I think when you get that chalky cold water, I heard the wives tell that I still believe that the cold water affects their eyesight or something, that's why they hit umbrella rigs in February,

57:37but not usually July. Don't know if that's true or not. But when you get those really clear drought conditions, and you have a 15 year old small mouth, that sucker has seen everything. And it, it, it knows that there's larvae hatches. And when you throw an underspin or something different, sometimes it fools it, but most of the time, it's like, I know that's not real. Yeah. You know, I don't know, but at least it makes sense when you throw a fly and every big small mouth in the dam river system is like, yeah, I'll chew on that, but not the water flopper. But I mean, other reason that's a bad example for the water flopper not working. I got a question here, and this is way wrong year. But anyway, I'm gonna do this one here with phantom fusion 69. Does night fishing ever work on small mouth rivers? Oh yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't do it as much as I should because like I said earlier, when you're fishing all day, every day, you gotta, yeah, yeah. But I mean, some, a bunch of people in this area do it, and it, it supposedly works real well.

58:39Yeah. All right, guys, there you, there you all have it. I think I got all cut up on all the questions. Oh, okay, oh, it got, is there a particular question? I thought I saw, actually, where's the start thing here? So I can get the old comments up. Oh, here we go, start. We got that one, we got that one done. Oh, here we go. One last question, guys. One last question, then we're gonna be, we're gonna be done. Do you ever modify jerk bait swim baits or crank baits with lead wire or tape to keep them down in the current? Only really jerk baits and what I'll do is I'll just put different hooks on them until they suspend because like, a lot of jerk baits that suspend and still water want to rise and current, it's just like the effect of the current pushing on them kind of pushes them up. So a jerk bait that's like dead nuts, suspending and still water will probably float

59:40a little bit in current. So I'll just usually put a little thicker hook on them and just that little bit of difference is usually what you need. There you guys have it. We got one more question about the sewage spill and I guess I'll just answer that now. I really just should do another thing because good Lord, I just want to be done with a stupid topic. I know it's still important, guys, but I have severe ADHD, so I get horrifically bored by talking about the same thing, ignosium. Has it slowed at all or is it still coming out at like the same pace? It has slowed a lot. So guys, the question is for people are gonna be listening to this on the Apple podcast. How will the sewage leak impact the fishing run DC? So they're treating the CNO canal that is right next to the river as an open sewer system. So they're basically where the break is, they're pumping it in at like 10 or 11 and they're letting all the shit and piss flow down to lock nine and then pumping it into blue haven. There's minimal leaking right now

1:00:42compared to what it was before because this is the main jugular of all shit in Northern Virginia and Maryland goes through this pipe that broke. The river will heal by April, May, it'll be perfectly fine. Here's the issue. The open sewer system will be that way probably for six to eight months. All of DC and Northern Virginia will smell like piss and a dead body in 90 degree heat for a long time. There will be flies, bot flies and a mosquito issue all summer. So it's gonna be an issue because every stay at home mom will walk outside and everything's gonna smell like shit. That's not gonna fly, pun intended. But the fishing will be okay for catch and release. Catfish and oysters, I don't know. Like that do it your own risk, I guess. They say it should be okay, but I don't eat catfish to begin with. I don't know about that. I just bass fish, trout fish, all that stuff. I just put it back.

1:01:43So that's my two cents on it. The problem is the smell will be horrendous. So that's gonna keep this in the media limelight for a very long time. So it's not as bad as the Dupont Mercury spill. That didn't have a smell, but it just killed everything in the river. So no one cared. This is the flip. The fishing will be okay. People care more about smells bad. Yep, yep, yep. Yep, oh my God, I've worked at a farm too. And that pneumonia spell, you can't get out of your clothes. Now imagine all the rich people in DC with their fancy bent leaves smelling that way. So yeah, that's gonna be a thing. Let's see, let's end on an uplifting question here for Ethan. Let's see where is it or uplifting. Ah, here we go. What is your favorite jig color and tube color? I mean, the main jig colors I throw are like a black. I mean, they always wanna have like a black. That's just for stain water, cloudy conditions,

1:02:47just when the visibility's low. Really like like a red, you know, like this is green pumpkin with a lot of red. You know, red is just all around good, craw color and good, pre spawn color. And then I'll have like a, every now and again, I'll have like a real natural green pumpkin, but this is probably the one I throw the least. I mean, it has to be like really sunny and queer for me to wanna be throwing this. And if it is that sunny and queer, I'm probably throwing a tube instead of a jig anyway. And my colors are pretty much the same with the two. Like, they're all like blacks. I throw like orange and reds. And then I throw like a natural green pumpkin. There you guys have it. If people wanna book a trip with you, if you have any times leftover, where can they go? New River Outdoor Company. Google new River Outdoor Company. Our website is newriveroutdoorco.com. You can call us, email us,

1:03:50reach out to me on Instagram or Facebook or reach out to new River Outdoor Company on Instagram and Facebook. Yeah, we'd love to have you. There we go, guys. So I will read off the winners of gift cards. We have Andrew, Andrew Hallman, 75-11, any tips for these fly fishing on the new river. We have Lee Martin and we have Aaron, J47-93 and then B-Cal-1 as well. So guys, message me on Instagram or Facebook. I'll get your gift cards here by the end of the week. And then we have one last question that's stuck in and dude, like because you basically comment on every single video I've ever put out, I'll let you sneak this one in before we get down here. We have Curious. If he has an opinion on the ordinance or bomb making installations on the new river at Rafford, I did know this was a thing. Have there been any events? Yeah, the Army Arsenal, the new river Radford Army Arsenal.

1:04:52Huge, huge, huge operation. It's bigger and acreage than the town of Blacksburg. I mean, that's the black beer area. I float through there all the time. It's like an 11 mile stretch of river that the whole 11 miles here, you're in the arsenal. But you're not really allowed to go up on the banks or anything, you have to just kind of stay on the river. And they are always doing, you'll hear huge booms and gunshots and everything. But after the Hurricane Helene flood, they lost a lot of materials like fuel and chemicals and stuff, so that was kind of a big deal. But I think it's all sorted out. I've heard that they're a pretty big polluter. I think, and I'm not an expert on this. But I think their pollution tends to be more groundwater

1:05:53leaching than water runoff. Like, I've heard that it's not really good to be on well water if you live around there. But it's not, it's just such a big area and it's forested and that I don't think like storm runoff is really like an issue there. But there's fish right in the river through the arsenal. So, you know, there you guys have it. I did not know any of that. That's pretty, pretty wild. Guys, as always, link in the episode description to everything that we talked about. I will leave this up for another hour or two. If you guys want to finish up, I'll leave a link. If not, this will be re-uploaded on Wednesday morning. So everyone has a chance to watch it and enjoy it. Again, if you want to, please go check out Ethan. Please go support him on social media. That is episode description down below as well. And if you'd like to, please go support me on Patreon. My goal is to do this full time so I can stop working about a job

1:06:54and pay the mortgage so I don't have to do unspeakable things behind a dumpster at a Walmart to pay the mortgage. So, please go support me there and we will see you guys next time on Fishing, the DMV. Bye. You're listening to Fishing the DMV with your host, Thomas Sarons. Fishing the DMV is brought to you by Jake's bait and tackle located in Winchester, Virginia. Tactical fishing company and Fishing ProTech located just outside Williamsburg, Virginia. That doesn't get you jacked up. I don't know what will.