Dr. Scott Sherr: Why Chronic Stress Disrupts Mitochondria and Accelerates Visible Skin Aging

0:00Welcome to Biohacking Beauty, the podcast where we dive deep into the science of Aged Mwell from your skin to your cells. We're your host Amitai and… Anastasia. Founders of Young Goose Skincare. And if you're here, it means you're not just trying to look younger, you're ready to be younger from the inside out. Today's episode is one of those stuff what you're doing and listen kind of episodes. We're joined by Dr. Scott Chair, an absolute pioneer in the field of Habiburic Oxygen Therapy and Health Optimization. He's the chief medical officer of transcriptions, co-founder of the Health Optimization Medicine Protocol, and someone who's been translating complex biochemistry into actionable tools for high performers for over 20 years. And he's here to blow your mind. We're talking about what he calls the sympathetic spiral of doom.

1:04The vicious loop that keeps your body in chronic defense mode and absolutely destroys your energy, sleep, hormones, and yes, even your skin's ability to repair itself. This is the kind of conversation that bridges everything we talk about on this podcast. Data Control Health, nervous system balance, redox signaling, neuroplacicity, even how stress and trauma show up on your skin. And Scott doesn't just talk theory. He gives practical tools. We're getting into methylene blue, GABA modulation, H-bott, psychedelics, and why real recovery, real anti-aging, starts with getting out of sympathetic overdrive and into the parasympathetic edge. You'll also hear why oral GABA supplements might be a red flag, how mushrooms like Amanita, Mascaria, play a role in neural recalibration, and how oxygen can be used in medicine,

2:05not just for survival, but for regeneration. This is one of those conversations that redefine recovery, energy, and performance. Not just for your brain or your workouts, but your skin longevity too. Because what happens to your mitochondria doesn't stay in your mitochondria. It shows up on your face as well. But before we dive into today's podcast episode, we also wanted to take a moment to read a review. We are really thankful to everyone that has been living reviews on our own, all the channels where you consume it, beat Apple Podcasts, Spotify. But for the record, we choose them off of Apple Podcasts because that's what's convenient. That's 94% of where our listeners are. So if you're listening to this podcast and I've never read your review, that's probably because it wasn't on Apple Podcasts. So buy an iPhone. Brought to you by iPhone. Okay. This one is very cute. I heard Amitai interviewed on another podcast and was so impressed, I immediately started

3:07diving into all things Yangos. I have been binge listening to your podcast, and although your editor sounds lovely, I vote to not worry about keeping each episode under an hour. I could listen to you and Anastasia talk all day. I ordered several products and love them all and even feel a difference in the skin on my legs from the body cream, in just a couple of weeks of use. Looking forward to trying more items and seeing what results come from consistent use. My only regret is I didn't find you sooner. Big love to Yangos, XO, Amber. Thank you Amber. Thank you Amber. And thank you for the shout out to Jess and that sounds lovely. No, it was Chelsea who voted to do it under an hour, I believe. Oh, anyway, someone's... Okay. Shout out to Jackson. Shout out to Jackson. She's here. Shout out to Jackson, our podcast producer as well. Amber, love, 1-9-1-9. If you're Amber, love, 1-9-1-9, please email service at Yangos.com, or DM us on Instagram

4:07and we'll send you a product. Yeah, we forgot to say, if we read your review, you get in a free product, so you better leave that review. Okay. Okay. And now, without further ado, let's welcome Dr. Scott Sherry. Scott, I welcome you to the biohacking beauty podcast the first time that you are here together with Anastasia. It is. I'm excited. This is going to be... I feel like I'm a little bit intimidated. I have two people asking me questions right now. I don't know. Well... I think I'm going to be okay. It's intimidating. It's me, because I heard you guys two times on the podcast and you guys like to go very, very deep. No, no. If anyone is intimidated with me, I'm being kind of like... Exactly. All right. I think I'm the listener. They're also intimidated. Everyone is intimidated. And this is a great place to start. Sent us your intimidation in comments.

5:07Okay. Well, but today's podcast, I think overall, we just said, I will say the tone, it's going to be about mitochondria and mitochondrial health, which is everyone's mind anyway, anyone who listens to, I don't know, Andrew Huberman, he's now saying everything starts with the mitochondria, like everything and everything. Brought to you by... No, mitochondria. Anyways, first of all, you know, I used to have an old lecture I give. I give it once in the Faina. And I tried to explain psychological stress and skin aging. And it was the photo of President Obama, like before and after presidency. The president photo is really good, yeah. And then the emperor in Star Wars, like before he was beginning and after, where he looks like he's melting off. So I can tell you, the audience of like 45-year-old career women did not connect to the second one, but they understood the work of Obama. Yeah, I mean, every president that looks like they always do the before and afters.

6:11And they always look terrible, right, because they've slept for less than six hours a night. All the stress of being like the commander in chief, it's a good example of what stress can do to your skin at the very least. Yeah. And I think all the moms that hear also, you know, sleep deprived, listen into this podcast can relate as well. Yeah. And you know, you sent me, you sent us a bunch of really interesting information before the podcast. And one thing that struck me is very, very interesting is that, you know, most people think that stress is a physiological problem. And it's not. So how would you, how would you characterize it? Well, I mean, I think you have to define what stress is, right? There's a lot of different definitions out there. There's physical stress. There's going to jujitsu and get your in getting your eyes knocked around. That's physical stress. There is psychological stress. Or is that actually psychological stress? Exactly. Right. That's what I'm talking about.

7:11Right. So for somebody here, it's psychological stress. But for you, it's physical stress, right? And so psychological stress is stress that affects us mentally in some way. And then there's other type, then then then you have to also designate, well, is this good stress or is this bad stress? Okay. So that's called you stress and distress. So it's not like we're not supposed to have stress. We're supposed to be stressed to times, but we're supposed to be stressed for short periods of time. Acute stress is common, acute trauma, acute injuries, like these are common, but you're supposed to have a short finite amount of time when we're in a stress mode. And then very quickly, get back into a mode where we're not stressed at all. Our default state should not be stressed, whether it be physical or psychological. But the problem is, is that many of us, the majority of us now, this is our default state. Our default state is either going, going, going, going until we drop and fall asleep if we do fall asleep. And then go, go, go, go the next day. And this is, again, it's not all of our faults, right? We have a lot going on. It's the culture that we live in. I mean, I grew up in New York, the city that never sleeps, right?

8:14I didn't grow up in the city, but the long island where I grew up, it was very much that part of that culture. We had people that were taking trains into the city at four o'clock in the morning to go to their jobs and work in a 17 hours a day, right? And then, you know, I'll sleep when I'm dead, sleep is for quitters. I had shirts in medical school with my friends, sleep is for quitters, right? That's the hustle culture that we're all kind of a part of. And so then we bring this into our adulthood and to our children and then to how we rear our kids. And it just becomes a thing where the best counter example to all of this, do you guys ever watch the National Geographic? Yeah. Just for the commercials, I don't know, but the National Geographic, they did this great documentary a long time ago about an animal that was being preyed upon by like a lion or a tiger. I can't remember. It was like a gazelle or something like that, right? And then the animal is getting chased. So sympathetic, right? Stress, total stress, right? And then gets chased, but gets away, right? Doesn't get, doesn't get eaten. And then they go through this physiologic response, this sort of shaking physiologic response.

9:19And then within about a minute, they're back just to walk in like nothing ever happened, right? And animals oftentimes as well, but that's what our stress response is supposed to be. It's supposed to be acute, short, and then resolved. But that's not what happens in modern society because we don't have that kind of stimulus. We have, you know, pings from our email. We have, you know, we have notifications, we have children, we have, you know, poor light, poor food, poor, you know, poor sex lives, everything in between. And then we have other things that are bothering us. And so we live in this sort of world of distress, not use stress, unfortunately. You know, it's interesting. I want to add one thing. It's when you look at elite, elite, elite athletes, one of the parameters to their physical fitness is that intermittent recovery between, you know, elevated exertion, not necessarily how long they can exert maximum effort is like how fast can they recover and reexert the same effort. Yeah, the better you agree, can recover the more effort you're going to make the second time.

10:20It goes into that this balance of our nervous system, like it's called the, the autonomic nervous system. We have our sympathetic nervous system, which is our fighter flight, our stress nervous system. And then we have our parasympathetic nervous system, which is our rest digest detoxification. And I did, I did a lecture not too long ago on something called that we called the parasympathetic edge. The idea that when you're in that rest recovery mode, you recover better so you can actually do more work. You can actually exercise more optimally because you're not in stress mode when you go into it, right? If you're in stress mode, right, when you go into exercise, you don't have a lot of reserve left because you're already in stress mode, right? But if you can calm down your nervous system before you exercise, calm down your nervous system, especially after you exercise, that's when you see the biggest gains. You don't see the biggest gains from exercise when you're working out. You get your gains after you finish workout working out and you calm down your nervous system. So if you go from exercise directly to your meetings directly to doing all your stuff on your calendar and you have no breaks like me today, then you don't have time to get

11:21into your parasympathetic mode. And that's detrimental to your biology, like all those hormones that, you know, that mess up your skin, they mess up your mitochondria too. Like if you're cortisol, your stress hormones elevated for long periods of time, that's trashing your skin, it's trashing your mitochondria. If those neurotransmitters are elevated, one's called norepinephrine and epinephrine, those are elevated all the time. Those are going to trash your mitochondria and trash your skin because truly that common denominator, Anastagia, as you said, is the mitochondria, which are the part of your cell that help you make energy. And if that part of your cell is not working very well, nothing else is going to work very well either. So I was going to ask you how does chronic stress that you were describing literally age your skin and you kind of touched on it now, though you want to talk a little bit more and that's about each one you mentioned. I would, you know, something that's very interesting for me, again, from the sources that you sent, is that definition of a metabolic lock-in state because I mean, you know, going

12:25back to, you know, 14 years ago when I was in the light therapy field, there was a lot of talk about, you know, different states of the mitochondria, but it was really considered who science or unexplored and it seems to be in the forefront of latest discoveries and latest kind of strategies, assessments of longevity of optimal performance. So could you expand a little bit more about that definition of a metabolic lock-in state and how then does it translate again to poor skin aging? So both your questions are very, very much aligned, which is like what happens when you're under stress mode all the time, is that your cells, your mitochondria specifically try to start protecting themselves from all the stress that you're under and instead of making more energy, they start making less and as a result of that, it causes more stress on the system because then the body is like, I need more energy, but I'm not making it.

13:26I need to make more so that it pumps out more hormones like cortisol, neurotransmitters like neurobinephrine and end-upinephrine that try to get your mitochondria to make more energy. These part of your cell, the mitochondria are the powerhouse of your cell, they make your energy, right? You make about 150 pounds of energy of ATP every single day. Now, that's a huge amount of energy that you need and there are some cells in your body that need a lot of energy and there are some cells that don't need as much. Fun fact question, I'm going to ask you a trivia question, guys. What cell in your body has the most mitochondria per cell? Is it, I'll give you a multiple choice, is it your brain? Is it ovaries and sperm or is it your liver? Overs. No, no, I think it's a brain. No, it's the ovaries. Is it a brain? No, it's correct. Yes. No. No. So, making or building or growing a baby is the most energetically intensive thing that anybody, any human can do and so eggs have the most mitochondria per cell.

14:28You cannot think it's magic, it doesn't mean growing a baby. Right behind ovaries and sperm. No, you can't think lavender existence. I don't think you can do that yet, but maybe soon, but right now, it's ovaries and sperm that have the most mitochondria per cell and you have brains right behind that and your heart, your liver, your muscle skeletal tissue and of course, we know your skin cells have, you know, their tons of mitochondria in the skin as well and your skin is what's very interesting about it, how fast it turns over and so as we get older, our mitochondria stop working as well for a number of different reasons, which I can talk about. But the skin is one of the main places you can see it happening. So what's really interesting about looking at somebody's skin is it gives them the window into what's happening in the, like in depth in the cells. And so if you see somebody's skin aging very fast, you know that their mitochondria taking a big hit too. And so it could be the first sign that you see actually is that skin changes start happening and all of a sudden, they feel fine, but then they, you know, three or four years later than they start having energy issues, mental health issues.

15:29But you know, to go back to the mitochondria for a second there, you know, 94% of U.S. adults have some element of mitochondrial function, dysfunction, meaning their mitochondria don't do as well as they can either making energy or a compensating for the energy we make. We're kind of like a gasoline power car. We make energy in our cells in the mitochondria. We take electrons from our food, carbohydrates and proteins mostly and we bring them into the mitochondria to help make energy. But we don't make energy for free. We make this ATP 150 pounds of it. We also make what are called waste products of making energy, carbon dioxide, water, but also something called reactive oxygen species or ROS, which I know you guys know very, very well. These ROS are important at low doses, but if there's too much of them, the system starts in break, it starts breaking down because you need antioxidants in the body, things like glutathione and vitamin C, melatonin and many other ones that you guys can also mention. But you need those to neutralize that stress, but over time we get worse at that and we get more stress that builds up.

16:30So we're more like a gasoline power car, for example. What happens is that there's 94% of US adults are not making energy effectively and that's because we're getting, there's a lot of different things that are different reasons. One of the main reasons though is this stress component, like having chronic stress is causing significant amounts of damage to the mitochondria, also insulin resistance. Also if you have high blood sugars, if you have toxins in your environment like detergents and soaps and skin care and all those kinds of things that are getting not only in the skin but in the body, also infections and then also medications that people take. People that are taking medications, some medications actually are causing nutrient deficiencies, causing toxicities, causing skin changes of course too, but it can also cause a significant direct effect on the mitochondria. So you have like 94% of US adults, it's a huge number, but only 6% adults have optimized mitochondrial function and so it's a big issue and you're seeing the manifestations of that in all various levels, but the skin is certainly a major one of those because

17:31of how many mitochondria, Priscilla being, are always being produced by skin cells in such rapid clip all the time. Yeah. I would really know how, I would really want to know how to be the 6% what should we do? What are they doing? First of all, I think it wouldn't it be like a more, like a better definition to say like everyone, 100% of the population experiences mitochondrial dysfunction, 6%, their body is optimized in a way that it can recover from that mitochondrial dysfunction. That's beautifully said, yes, because we're all going to have mitochondrial stress, even if we're part of that 6%, because we're going to be stressed at work, we're not going to get sleep as well, we're going to be on a plane, we're low oxygen and hypoxic and bad air and all those things. I don't know if people know, if you're on an airplane, you're pressurized about 8,000 feet above sea level, so you're low oxygen on a plane and that's one of the reasons why you feel so crappy, well most people, when I get off my planes, because I live in Colorado,

18:31I'm at 5,000 feet, I go to sea level and Miami, my ordering was like the happiest it's been in a long time because I was, I was got two hours of deep sleep, I never get that much sleep, I get to kind of deep sleep on my ordering, but anyway, but you're right, you're absolutely right, I'm trying to say that 100% of people have mitochondrial stress, but only 6% of those people have the resilience and the capacity from a mitochondrial perspective to really be able to tolerate that without a detrimental effect on mitochondrial function over time. And that's a great, that's a beautiful way to say it. Yeah, no, that's for sure, I was just curious, how do you develop that resilience? Because I'm sure, now that you know that there is this problem, you probably, you know, devoted some time to research to see how we can go through it better. Yeah, so it's like, it's not rocket science is what it comes down to, but it doesn't mean it's easy, right? And that's the difference, right? We can, we can say simple things that mean a lot, but are very difficult for people to do, right? And that could be like, well try to manage your

19:32stress better, you know? Calm the fuck down, meditate, do yoga, eat better, sleep better, move more, right? I'm have better relationships. Make sure you're getting outside and grounding, get sunlight, right? And making sure you're, you know, doing these things sounds easy, but it's not, right? So what I typically do in, in clinical practice is that, you know, I work on people's foundational biology at the same time, looking at signs of mitochondrial stress, signs of antioxidant deficiencies, gut health, neurotransmitters, hormones, and that's a whole part of, you know, the nonprofit that we run called health optimization medicine and practice, which is an nonprofit that trains practitioners on how to optimize self using a foundational framework. And that's what I use in my own clinical practice. And so it's nice to pair those kind of pronouncements like, why don't you move more, right? With, well, this is what's happening in your cells. This is why you need to move more. Look at the toxicities you have. Look at the, look at the signs of antioxidant deficiencies you have. Look at the hormone imbalances that you have, right? And so like, look at the stress that's causing all these things, right? And then it kind of

20:33puts things together for people. And then you can create a runway, or maybe a road map is better, a blueprint, or whatever you want. No, I don't want to use the word bullpup. But road map, road map, that gives you a sense of where you want to go here, right? And like, and then how you can see feedback mechanisms, not only subjectively, but, but objectively as well. And so that's the real key. Anastasia is to understand that it's simple things that can go a long way, but pairing that with, with data is very, very helpful because then people have a road map of kind of where they are and kind of where they are going and, and track things over time. But they can't be done with one without the other. They really have to be done in concert. But what I often will tell people, and is that oftentimes I can get the, there's only a certain, it depends on where they're kind of starting from. But I can often get them feeling a little bit better to start getting them more motivated due to some of the other stuff, right? So like I can get them feeling better, using something like methylene blue, for example, as you both know, to help them feel a more energy, a little more detox, so that they start getting more energy and they're like more motivated

21:36to stop drinking alcohol, stop going to McDonald's, you know, stop yelling at their wife for whatever. And then, and then they're like, oh, I really want to start feeling better. Like I had a patient that refused to stop eating pizza for a while. I was like, okay. But we started feeling better, is like, you know, I don't want any pizza anymore. Like, like in general, just he was eating pizza 24-7. No, no, no. No, like he said, I'm happy to work with you, Dr. Scott. Like I'm excited to work with you, but one thing I'm not going to give up is pizza. I'm going to have it once a week with my family. I'm like, okay. So we started getting them to feel better. And then six months later, he stopped eating pizza, because he realized that he could feel so much better if he didn't, right? Yeah, you can have a different ritual with his family, isn't it? How would you say that? So the founder of all the nonprofit, as you know, is his name is Dr. Ted Ochocoso. And Dr. Ted is a very smart, brilliant, brilliant guy. And what he likes to, one of our kind of taglines at home hope is like, we want you to get used to get addicted to the feeling of being healthy, right? And if you get addicted to that feeling, that's where you want to be, right? But yeah, that takes

22:36time. It takes effort. Most people, it takes six months or a year or longer to optimize their vitamins, their minerals, their nutrients, their stress. And, you know, and so what can you do now to help? And that's where, you know, the twist riffsens company came in as the for-profit entity of the nonprofit, it sort of birthed out, well, how can we help people with energy, with focus, with sleep, with stress, with immune system function, and have, you know, cool partnerships and collaborations with skin sprays as well somehow, right? And so, yeah. And so that's how that all came about. I love that. And I love that a listener is can feel empowered that, you know, if they listen to those symptoms you were mentioning in the beginning, you know, and maybe they identified that, oh, I probably live in a state of chronic stress and I probably have my Takonji, Montacondrial decline, they now know that you can actually take steps and get better. You can, you know, change your status and that. And since you mentioned Method and Blue, and this is some of the benefits of it now, is there any Method and Blue benefit, like taking Method

23:39and Blue, that nobody talks about, that's really surprising, even maybe to you? That's a good question. I've, as I talk about this a lot, I don't know what's surprising, and not anymore. Looking cool. But I've looking extremely cool. I mean, except definitely you do, Amitai. I know you're, you look very cool with your Blue Tongue. Thank you. What I would say here is that you'd be surprised what feels better when the mitochondria working better. And like, I remember when we first started using Methylene Blue, I was actually quite skeptical myself, to be honest, when Ted brought it to us and he's like, we're going to make a product with Methylene Blue. We were the first company to do this in 2020, and I think Amitai, I think you were one of our first customers, I remember. And it had been floating in the biohacking world for a little while, but we were the first company to make a commercial product. And I remember like, nobody's going to do this. What do we do? You know, like, it's, it's blue, it makes your urine blue. But then I started getting these stories. Like, one one of the initial stories was a lady, she'd like in her mid 20s, she'd given Methylene Blue

24:40our just blue to her grandmother. It was in like an early 80s with mild cognitive impairment. And this grandmother started telling stories about her childhood when she grew up in Mexico that nobody had ever heard of before. And I was like, really, it can do that. And I've heard a number of stories like that over the years now where people get their life back. And like, I thought it might help with inflammation, a little bit of like focus. We like, we were focused on the Neutropic side of it and helping with brain function. It certainly does all those things. But people that I've had a long COVID for years after two weeks of Methylene Blue back to work, people with pain for years getting better. And I just, I've been kind of floored and surprised with just the the significant impact, I think. You know, I thought it would help people with energy, with focus, with brain fog. But then I'm like, I was almost paralyzed. And I know, you know, like I couldn't walk because I was so tired all the time. And now I can walk. And like, now my brain functions better. And you know, my grandmother can, you know, like all these kinds of stories. I was like, that was surprising to me, to be honest, because it's very blue. It's very surprisingly blue. It's blue in your mouth. It's blue in your urine. It's blue when you're

25:43clothing. If you get it on there or your countertop, you got to be careful, everybody. Dark surfaces. There's a story like that. Yeah, there. There's one lady I spoke to about getting blue everywhere in the bedroom as well. I was like, well, that sounds interesting. I don't know what you guys were doing. But yeah, so you got to be careful where you blew. But also you can swallow the Methylene Blue, which is, which is also the better way to go most the time anyway. But the thing about Methylene Blue, I think is that honestly, nobody's asked me that question exactly. But I think that was probably the most and continues to be the most surprising aspect of it is that how impactful it has been. And I'm not saying that people need to take it forever. Yeah, you know, I do want to interject here because I feel we're talking a lot about people's baselines starting point. You're mentioning 80 or old people. You're mentioning people walking or not walking. But there is something on again, something from the information you sent me, which was very interesting to me and very cool to kind of set things within an understandable framework, which is that spiral

26:45people, people in experience in their health. And as the CIA hates the definition spiral of do, you get. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And by saying spiral of do. It's so dangerous. I think, you know, you touch it on it slightly when you talk about perceived stress. But, you know, I really, really find it interesting that our body will, you know, that that initiation of the spiral could be either physiological or psychological stress, like either mitochondrial injury or yeah, stressor. So, so let's start there and maybe you can tell us a little bit about that spiral of doom. Yeah. So I've been, so I know it sounds dangerous and ominous. And it kind of is, but there is it's not the end of it's something we can do about it. It's just important to, I think, recognize kind of where we are in this pattern as humans, because when we can recognize the pattern, there's something we can do about it, right? And so I call it the sympathetic spiral of doom. We've been talking about this already in various ways. But the key to understand here is that when you're

27:48in fight or flight all the time, put a lot of stress on your mitochondria, okay? A lot of stress on the body, a lot of stress on your immune system, but the mitochondria really like the lowest common and denominator where everything starts breaking down from. And then we kind of flip into this energy saving mode is kind of a hibernation mode. We were talking about earlier on the time where your body, instead of making more energy, makes less trying to protect itself. It's kind of like a hibernation stage. It's like when a bear goes into hibernate, like it goes in like a low energy state so that it can keep itself, you know, through the winter. It's the same thing that you, yourself, kind of do. And this is, and then as a result of that, you have this challenge where you're not making enough energy and the body's requiring more. And then you have this spiral where the system starts creating more of those hormones and those neurochemicals and neurotransmitters, the sympathetic stuff that we were mentioning earlier, to try to compensate for the low energy. And then you get in the spiral where it keeps going and going and going. And the key here is to, number one is to recognize it, okay? And it could be difficult, but it's

28:49usually not that difficult if you think about it. You wired, but tired all the time. You can't sleep very well. You have a hard time relaxing. Like you try to go out and you try to go to the gym and you just don't recover very well anymore. You don't, you can't really exercise too much because it makes you feel stressed or you feel like if you do exercise, you're paying for it for three days later. Or if you're going to a sauna, for example, and you try to detox and you, and you can't move for three days after you get out of the sauna, or maybe even for 24 hours. These are all, and the mental health and like irritability, inability to kind of regulate your mood as well. These are all kind of signs that this might be happening. And the key though to understand, and I think this is where you're going on me ties up, you can't just address this by addressing the mitochondrial piece, like addressing the energy piece. You can't just address it by addressing just the stress piece. You have to address them at the same time. Because what can happen is if you take somebody's stress and you bring it down, if their energy capacity is very, very low, if their mitochondria aren't working very well, they're going to feel like crap. Like, and so you've decreased their stress, but now they feel terrible, right? And they're

29:52going to want to feel like they did before if it means that, you know, they're not going to feel as terrible, right? So the key is to support both how the mitochondria are working and decreasing the stress at the same time. And that's really what I've developed over the last several years, is like, is it this sort of like this nice fine balance of supporting the mitochondria and supporting the stress related systems at the same time. And if you can do them in combination, like that's when you can see the most powerful changes that are most sustainable for people. And that's really where the power of combining something like, you know, down regulating the nervous system, with improving the mitochondria at the same time can really have a huge impact on your life. And there's very simple ways to do this, by the way. It's not complicated. I want to make sure that's clear. And actually, methylene blue can fall into the category here of something that can help on the mitochondrial side very, very quickly. And on the stress side, what you're looking to do is really help people understand what it feels like to not be stressed. And that can be very interesting for people, right? Because if they've been in the stress mode for a long period of time,

30:53they don't realize that they've been in it because they've been compensating it for a long period of time. But so you have to show them and give them the, give them the experience of bringing down the stress levels. And so there's a couple easy ways to do this. And there's harder ways to do it, right? Easy ways are to give a supplement, something that works in the GABA system specifically, that can down regulate the nervous system very, very quickly so that they can feel what it feels like to not feel stressed. And that's nice and great as long as the mitochondria being supported at the same time, as I mentioned, right? If not, they're going to feel really, really tired and sort of just really washed out. So what I typically do is I give some mitochondrial support first for the first week or two. And then I start with the sympathetic down regulations, so giving them something that enhances the GABA system. And then that combination is very, very effective because you've supported the mitochondria. And now you're starting something that's helping with the stress. And now that they can tolerate coming down from that stress because they have enough support, right? Now, so a short term, I use a lot of methylene blue. I use a lot of

31:55GABA urgent kinds of supplements. I don't use GABA itself because GABA is too big of a molecule to get into the brain. If you take GABA and it works for your means that you have a leaky brain and you have a leaky gut, you need to do something about that. That should be, you should be, you might be calm, but you should be calmly alarmed. Calmly alarmed, yes. So yeah, if a person has been taking GABA supplements and was feeling much better, it's actually alarming because they're really soothing. Brain. Yeah, and I've had a patient recently, late last last six months, he started off with me using GABA supplements and feeling quite good on them. And then we, he had a leaky gut, we sealed it up, we healed it up, and then the GABA supplements stopped working. Now, the exception might be like a, like a nano-liposomal type of GABA, maybe, but other GABA supplements shouldn't work. So, you know, what we do is we formulate with things that work on the GABA receptor, but are not GABA itself. You know, we have a sleep formula transcriptions that has something called

32:58agrin in it, which is from a psychedelic mushroom called the amineum. Yeah, it's very interesting, right? The fuzzy one. Yeah, it's very interesting because it's derived from a pseudo-toxic mushroom. Yeah, it's like poisonous mushroom, right? That is, yeah, high doses, it causes GI distress, but this particular compound is not toxic. It's actually long acting on the GABA receptor. There's another compound, yeah, in there. So, the reason I'm saying it is because right as we stick right now in the, you know, something really cool with cross-striptions, obviously, the the fiscally positive arm of, of, of home hope is that you could see the ripples in the biohacking water of what you guys are doing. And one of them is I feel like there is a, there is a an uptick in in kind of the integration of amineum ascaria into things like honey or things that obviously like kind of grassroots approaches. Yeah, absolutely. But it's important to understand

33:59that this is the quality of processing is actually pretty important there. Huge, right? Because, so drying the mushroom is good because it's taking less of the other ingredient called ibiotenic acid, which is the neurotoxic ingredient out there. But you're not going to have entirely free of ibiotenic acid. And then you are going to be getting some of that in these amineida tinctures. But, yeah, there are, the longer you dry it, the less you get. Ibiotenic acid gets converted into the agron with drying, actually. So, what we did is we, we don't have an amineida extract. We use a synth synthesized agron itself. So, it's pure agron. There's no ibiotenic acid at all. I'm using super low doses of it. And it's just one milligram in trozii. And it's long acting. It lasts for about six and a half hours. And so, we, we have our trozii, which works on the GABA system, works on serotonin, melatonin. It works on the, it's called the adenosine system, as well as the anocannabinoid system. It's a very comprehensive, probably the most comprehensive

35:01sleep formula that I've seen on the market. This is the way we formulate very low doses with everything. But it's the GABA combination. There is the agron plus something called hanokial, which is from Magnolia bark. And those two combinations, they both bind to the GABA receptor in really cool ways to synergize with each other to help enhance the amount of GABA erjectone, which means how much you feel relaxed. So, by the way, if you're GABA deficient, you have anxiety, you have insomnia, you have depression, you have mental health disorders, you have tremors, and for a long time, doctors like me were taught that if you had depression, you had a serotonin deficiency, right? Serotonin being the happy, you know, neurochemical. But we now know that serotonin levels are not any lower in people's depression versus people that don't have depression, okay? And so, that theory has completely been, you know, it's hogwash, basically. But we know, as a good data to show that people with depressed GABA levels have depression, much more than people that don't. So, optimizing your GABA levels very quickly can very, very fast, very, very quickly show

36:07you how it is to be more in that parasympathetic mode. So, long term, I optimize the gut, I optimize precursors to GABA like glutamine, for example, which is also the primary fuel of the small intestine, which isn't amino acid. But, short term, you can use trozif, for example, for sleep, you can use our trocom, which is a combination of additional ingredients that work on the GABA system to really help. I mean, there's also like CBD itself and lemon balm and passion flour and ashwagandha. These are all things that work on the GABA system as well, not just, you know, our products and transcriptions. But the way we develop them is very much, you know, small, small little trokey, as you know, in a way to synergize very low doses of ingredients together, making the sum, you know, greater than all of its parts. But that's what I typically do is I'll have my patients get some, get some support with their mitochondria, like some of them, ethylene blue is good, typically. And then after about a week or two, I start them on some trocom or trozif, depending where they're having the most stress in their life. If they don't know, I just start them on the trocom. And then just start having them take it. And then that's actually very telltale for me.

37:10It's like, oh, I don't feel any stress. I'm like, oh, really? You don't. Let's see how you feel. And we start giving you something that calms your nervous system down. But a small point there is that. But important, when you first calm down your nervous system, if you've been stressed for a long period of time, it can be scary, actually, because you're not used to being in a calm state. And so I've had a number of patients over the years where they get this, they can get a reactive anxiety to when their nervous system calms down. So it's important to know that when you start taking something to calm down your nervous system, feeling anxious as your nervous system is going down is normal. It's okay. It will pass. It's typically only going to be for maybe five or 10 minutes, but just to somebody to be aware of. And that's why I always counsel people that have being anxious for a long period of time to know that that may happen as they come down. But once they find out where there is, and they can do the meditation, then they can do the yoga, then they can do the breath work, then they can do the other things that are a little bit more difficult. But now they know what relaxation really means in calming their nervous system. You know, it happened to me the first time I went to a sound bowl meditation. So I haven't

38:12meditated properly. And then my friend was in town who was already like an avid meditator. avid sleeper through meditation. So listen, yeah. So she took me to a sound bowl meditation. It was my first time that the previously I only tried meditations that were guided, where I was listening to a voice. And I kind of was like, was focused on that. Anyway, so here we are in the sound bowl meditation. My friend, true. She's falling asleep. She's snoring next to me. While I'm starting to get panic attack, it's quiet. I'm supposedly relaxed. All the sound balls that the smell and the studio, everything is supposed to relax me like no light. And all of intrusive thoughts are just rushing into me like all at once. But as of suddenly, my brain is like, oh, you're paying attention. You know what I was thinking about? And it's like all the worst thoughts in the same time. I couldn't wait for it to be over. And then it is over. I'm waking up my friend and I'm like, why did she do it to me? I thought I'm going to like burst. And it took me a while

39:17to recover. This is part of it. Yeah, that's it. She was like, listen, you really need to meditate. That's what I'm learning from it. And I did too over time. But it was such a scary experience. So I'm glad that you're worrying people that it might happen. Yeah. So on average, there's different estimates out there. But the one that I think is probably the most close to being true of how many thoughts we have every single day. It's around 70,000 or so. This doesn't mean that you're having unique thoughts all the time. And there's some people out there that have very little thought and actually like very, very little person behind them talking all the time. And I very much I'm very jealous of those people. But most people I don't like that. Yeah. Most people are you know, I have a lot of thoughts. I think I'm a guy. By the way, we can be jealous of him. He's like going through life pretty chill. That's probably true. You know, compared to speaking. We honest, most of most of the person talking to me is this guy, this girl over here. I have that. It's not about 70,000. I probably have 140,000. That's the day. So

40:22so when we're gathered efficient on a stager, we do have an elevation there. So like when we're stressed, when we're anxious, depressed, we go to like 120,000 on average around that time. So that's why I go to my dishes. Yeah, there we go. Well, don't, well, don't be, I always say, don't believe everything you think, right? Because if you have 70,000 of those thoughts every day, like, which ones are you going to believe? Like, should you believe any of them? Right? Like, that's like, that's the crazy thing about it. So, so it's a big deal. Like learning how to meditate is essential, right? And what happens when you first start meditating and everybody knows this that's ever tried. Like the first five minutes of my meditation or everything that I forgot to do in the last 24 to 72 hours or everything that I have to do in the next 24 to 72 hours. And trying to make it, you know, provocative enough for me to break my meditation to do those things. Like, I know it's going to happen every single time, right? And like, and people that are meditators, they know, but that's what your brain does, right? Your brain, your ego constructs wants to stay in control, right? And so having that experience is, it can be, it can be scary, right? Because you're like, you know, if you're not ready for it, you know, that kind of thing.

41:24And so, yeah, I'm sorry that happened to you, but it's, it's common. And that's why it's important to have that. I mean, it was a, it happened a while back, like, probably seven years ago, if, if not more. And so, but we're not allowed to have soundballs in the house. No, but I, I progressed then and I learned to meditate. But it's definitely, but you know, now that you were talking about how the, the thoughts, like the, the ego is trying to get, like, take control over you and, and make you do stuff, like, that's why actually I also can't work out by myself. Like, I have to be part of the class where I'm in a group setting or I have to have a instructor because if I'm left to work out by myself, I can't stop, like, all of the to-do list is so, there's so much pressure from my to-do list. I keep breaking my workout to write something down as if, like, I will never remember it again. Or start on the task and, like, come back to it later. So, yeah, I'm definitely, it lots of yourself. No, I get it. I mean, and I feel, so many people that are listening,

42:28feel the same way. You know, I think I talked about this a lot with gym culture and people like that are going to the gym or exercising at their house even and they go and do an asset and they're on their phone. They go to their set and they're on their phone. First of all, they're posture sucks. And so that the posture sucks, you're not getting good, you know, good, good breath work. You're not able to calm down your nervous system between sets. It's going to make your exercise less effective. Second is that you're keeping yourself in, like, dopaminergic sympathetic, but you're looking at your phone, you're thinking about your stuff. And so a big part of exercising, optimally, is learning how to, you know, meditate while you exercise, actually, right? Which is maintaining your focus while you're doing this. And this is, it's a common issue for me too. Honestly, I can relate to this, right? I'm like, oh, that's really, really provocative. I really should go check my phone for that right now because my brain is telling me this, like, no, it's okay. If it's important, it'll come back later. I hope. You know, so. And having that, having that, you know, internal dialogue with yourself. But I think one of the one thing I like a lot, and I play around with those of my kids all time,

43:30is just reminding them that they're not their thoughts. If you can observe your thoughts, you cannot be your thoughts, right? So there has to be like a place you're observing your thoughts from some other location that isn't the thought. So my eight-year-old right now, he's got that transition from like being in like magical land and, you know, being in like, you know, the real world. We talk about this all the time. Sometimes he doesn't know what's real versus what's, you know, not real, right? And so just creating some space there is really the key over the long term. I understand that you're not the thought. You don't have to believe that crazy thing that you just haven't ever thought. Let's take a second to talk about why your skin looks less firm than it used to, even though you're doing everything right. And the collagen may not be the problem. Elastin is what allows skin to stretch, move, and return without leaving lines or laxity behind. And once elastin signaling breaks down, you cannot hydrate or peptide your way out of it.

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45:32The link is in the episode description. If your routine only focuses on collagen, it is missing the real issue. So I want to summarize kind of what we've gone through until now. Which is that spiral can really happen by two major components. One is what is called what you call top down, which is stress, trauma, hypervigilance. Obviously, things that happen to you from the outside and the other one is internal or bottom up, which would be triggered by physiological or biochemical insults, which would be toxins, infections, redox dysfunction. That would, even though it kind of happens to you from the outside,

46:34I would also say things like exposure to a lot of UV oxidative stress, etc. Within that, while you're experiencing it, you would experience one or more of these characteristics, which is energy collapses, sleep fragments or becomes less deep, hormones become less balanced or misfire, inflammation rises, and recovery is insufficient. Tanks, however you would like to define that. Did I miss anything? No, that's a nice summary. I think in the end, this spiral of doom, as I talk about, is one of those things where I think the main point that you made there that I didn't make clearer until you said it, Amitai, is that it's not always the stress that starts the whole process. It can be something that happens from an insult, like a mitochondrial insult,

47:36like a toxin infection. Things like that can also cause this spiral to happen. It may not be that you had a stressful event, but it could have been that you had COVID, you had to go to the hospital for some sort of infection. I needed to be there for a couple days, and that caused the stress on the cells as well. Either way, in the end, you have to address it on both ends, no matter where it starts, because if you don't, you're going to see long-term, you're not going to see the benefits that you would all hopefully want to have long-term. And so that's the key, but yeah, I think that's a good otherwise summary, yeah. And I was going to say that I know we started talking about dialing out GABA intelligently. We talked about recovering in mitochondria, and then in the sources that you sent us, you were also talking about leveraging oxygen. I think we didn't get there yet. Do we want to talk about that? You know, it's funny. We have an internal joke, because we did prepare pretty well for this podcast. This is another thing that has brought to the table coming out of the podcast. We actually prepared. So we kept saying the sources,

48:42and now it sounds like we're talking about something that was handed from, you know, the sources. No, so I just want to connect a little bit, because you really talked about first, let's exactly immediately interrupt this spiral with immediate interventions, and then work on resilience. And within people who have things that they want to address specifically as far as like their appearance, their skin appearance, does it, but by the way, that does not matter if we're talking about a 15-year-old or an 80-year-old. It's almost unanimous that they're trying to do the latter first. It's almost unanimous where whether it's acne or whether it is, you know, basically the lack of ability of your skin to support, you know, natural aging, collagen production, et cetera. It's always going to the extreme first, you know, using peels, using scrubs, using acids, using lasers, using, you know, whatever that is

49:43surgery, whatever that is without interrupting that spiral that leads to to begin with. And that is actually why the industry has so much money in it. It's because people are not allowing therapies that might be very, very simple to work because they are not optimizing their body to respond to those therapies. It's a big deal, right? Because we talk about this a lot in regenerative therapies as well, like things like stem cells and PRP and exosomes, like they don't work very well if your mitochondria suck plain and simple, right? They may give you a little bit of a boost for a couple of months and then you're back given yourself another $10 or $20,000 injection. And so having your foundation solid is so key on my tie. And I think that what I always say to my patients and as I educate about this topic is that there are things that you want to do right now to help support mitochondrial function, to break this sympathetic loop for sure. But long term,

50:44you really do have to do the harder work of optimizing your foundational health, optimize your cells and your vitamins, your minerals, your nutrients, your gut, your hormones, your stress levels. And this can be hard. It can be stressed from childhood. It can be stressed from deaths in the family. It could be a really significant trauma that don't allow you to feel safe. And that's difficult. And it could be that you've been sick for 30 years. And like it's been this diagnosis that's been dragging you for that period of time. And it's one of those things where, you know, within about the first three to five minutes, sometimes within the first 30 seconds, when I speak to somebody, it's pretty obvious to me whether I'm going to be able to help them immediately or not using a pure physiologic approach, right? Using a pure like vitamins, minerals, nutrients and cofactors approach. Like I know if they've already seen 10 doctors, I know if they've already, you know, gone through multiple supplements and nothing seems to work for them. And most likely it's that sympathetic aspect that really needs to be addressed. And so, you know, for me, I always go back to what can help people right now with that supportive, right? And then long term,

51:50how can you help them really build a foundation of resilience so that they have that they're in that six percent, right? Or maybe in that, yeah, of the hundred percent, they're the six percent, as you described before, and that they have the resilience and that the beneficial side effect of optimizing their health is that their skin was going to look better, that their aging of their body is going to look better, that they're just going to feel better inside and out. And then, you know, we talk about this, you know, you guys and I have talked about this with with methylene blue, for example, right? If you're optimizing mitochondrial function systemically, you're optimizing it in the skin as well. And it's you're going to see that, right? And then you're optimizing it in the skin, you're going to see it in the skin, right? And they're also having, you're going to have some systemic benefits to that as well. So it's an inside-out approach, as well as outside-in depending on the situation. But I'm always looking at things like this in the context of sequencing and what's going to be the most supportive for people. And then also, what people are going to be able to engage in, right? So you don't want to give

52:51100 different options for somebody. You want to make it as easy as you can so that they know, okay, now I need to decrease my stress. So these are the two things that I'm going to do. Now I need to improve my mitochondrial function. So these are the one or two things that I'm going to try, right? And then go slowly. Don't feel like you have to do everything all at the same time. You don't have to feel like you have to do everything. Well, just try, right? And see how things go. But I completely agree with you that in the world of skincare and the world of biohacking, it's like, well, just try this $20,000 device. That's all you need. Everything else is going to work better. But the answer is like, most likely you don't need that. Most likely you can get 90% of the way there or even more by just doing the basic foundational things and working on those over the long term. It's just not going to happen right away, right? Six months or a year later, you're going to feel the benefits of optimizing your cells. You might have conjured, but it doesn't happen immediately. I ain't a sustainable way until that time. But I would say one thing and that's going to lead me to, to, to anesthesia's question. One thing that indeed does cost money, quite a lot of money sometimes, but is working, you know, as a metabolic leverage as an immediate intervention,

53:56is it kind of a system reset is HBOT, is a hyperbaric oxygen therapy. So, you know, why? What's the mechanism there? How is it connected? How does it connect to that, to that, you know, laying, whether it's laying the foundation, healing the foundation, how does it do it? Yeah, there's a couple of different ways I think about hyperbaric therapy in this particular context. I think the biggest one to understand is to kind of where people are on that stress spiral, actually. If they're super stressed, hyperbaric therapy is not only likely a very good idea, especially deeper pressures, because it's going to cause more stress on the system, where hyperbaric therapy is fantastic, isn't the mitochondrial side of things and the inflammatory side of things in the blood vessel regrowth side of things. But, and I've learned my lesson over the years. If you start it too soon, you don't see the benefits, don't, and don't see the long term benefits especially. And so, what I often do is the sequence is to optimize foundational biomarkers. I do that using the health optimization medicine framework, start supplementation that can help with mitochondrial function,

54:57start supplementation that can help with bringing down that sympathetic balance, sympathetic tone, right? Bring it down to be more parapsympathetic. And then once that's all in place, then in about three or six months, typically, that's when hyperbaric therapy can come in and be that accelerator of everything that you've just done. And that's where I've seen the most power because it can improve mitochondrial function, it can decrease inflammation, it can improve blood vascular growth, some great studies showing all of these things. And so, if you're going to use it earlier in the process, like in the beginning, I typically use only milder pressures, as versus deeper pressures in the in the later stages, I'm really trying to like deeper healing for people. The milder pressure is like 1.3, 1.5 atmospheres. Those are more for for neurologic improvements and more for like general energy, general just oxygenation, focuses or for purposes and it can be very helpful, but you don't want to go deep pressures for sure until until later in the process. And not, you know, not intensive therapy until they have the machinery that could be really able to leverage, you know, bringing a lot more oxygen. So it becomes like the for me, it's almost like the icing on

56:00the cake, honestly. And then over the years, I've used it less and less as I've realized that if you can optimize, you know, in the in the foundational frameworks, optimize using supplementation and peel off the supplementation, hopefully over time, while you're doing all the things to build their foundation, both physiologically and psychologically, then you can use hyperbaric therapy. Absolutely. And I still do, but I've used it a lot less over the years because if you use this framework, oftentimes, you know, you don't have to use it as much, which is nice. And why don't you kind of questions that our listener always like to know about any modalities that we talk about? It's why do people get wrong about it? So what do people get wrong about like age bot and healing, for example? Yeah, as I was just alluding to, they try to do too much too soon, typically. They're not thinking about it because misconception that they pull jump into it, crank it up. No, I note that I put there from reading the sources, was that interrupting the spiral

57:02buys you time, but the long-term recalibration is the true exit of that spiral. And that's going to what you were talking about. Exactly. And that is what to your point prevents reentry or or builds resilience. Exactly. Yeah. And that's the key is that long-term, we don't really want to be on as many supplements as possible. I don't want, you know, people having to take methylene blue all the time or taking trocom or trozzy. The goal is to have these things when you need them, when you're part of that six percent, and you have additional stress, and you need it, then you take it, right? And I took the outro plus column last night, right? And I do take some of these things and myself, right? I take methylene blue three or four times a week this point, you know, depending on the type of year and what's going on. And so I feel, but I feel like the biggest emphasis that I often have when I talk about this is that all of us don't want to take things all the time. We may have some of us do. Some of us, like Amitai and I, we like taking supplements. We like doing all this stuff, but many of us don't want to do that. That's where I will be. Yeah. I could not imagine when he's not going to take supplements. Yeah. My supplement cabinet behind me has been

58:05relegated to my cabinet specifically because it's too large, right? And so, but what I always say here is that we should have like a base of supplements that we're taking that we've measured what we needed, and we're using supplements that are related to that. And then we can have other things that we want to play with and have fun with. That's fine. But, but in the essence, I know that most people don't want to be like Amitai or be like me. They want to have as very few things that they take as possible. And the key with that is building resilience and breaking the spiral and having a long term long term runway when you're optimizing at foundational levels. I think that is absolutely my motto all the time. I tell my patients this all the time is that we're going to be supplement heavy in front, like as we get going. But as we optimize as you work on all these things, you're going to see this all these things come down and peel off. I love it. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about the true exit. You know, we can do it like a rapid fire since that's what we normally like doing in the end. But let's see if you could give us actionable tips. Sure. Through the, you know, obviously a lot of things are going to be repeated, but actionable tips and approaches for

59:08let's start with you're going to read the first one. Micro nutrient and co-factor balancing. So this is your like your vitamins, like your B vitamins, for example, your selenium, your minerals, things like that. The best way to do is get it tested. See what you see what you need and get some foundational testing done and watch it over time as you optimize your diet, your lifestyle, and your supplementation, for sure. Redox restoration. So redox restoration means how well your mitochondria are working, basically. And the best way to do that is to measure, is you again, to see what's kind of going on and then to understand which of the inputs or the outputs in the case like is it the inputs? The problem is that the problem making energy is a problem detoxing from the energy you make and then kind of giving yourself a focus depending on which one which side of the coin it typically is. If you don't know and a lot of people don't know, it's hard to know. Again, that's what I use baffling blue for this because it works on both sides. And low doses around 8 to 25 milligrams are very, very supportive for it. And that's what we have it in just blue at transcriptions, a small amount in there. And you can get a good redox support

1:00:08while you kind of try to understand where in the system you're kind of breaking down is in the energy production side, where the toxicification side are both and doing testing is typically the best and then of course understanding your stress and how that's affecting everything, of course, is a big one too. So just, by the way, just as for me, actually, to know, in just blue, it's basically have four big squares that are divided into four little squares. So you have 16 little squares. How many milligrams does a little square have? So at transcriptions, we have a form factor called a trokey, a buckle trokey. It's a dissolvable lozenge that goes between your upper cheek and gum and dissolves here. Now, the nice thing about a buckle trokey is that you can get very fast absorption because it bypasses digestion in general entirely and goes directly from the cheek into the into the system. And it's also the ingredients are more potent because they go directly from the cheek into your system. Now, the exception to this, though, is methylene blue. It is methylene blue is so highly bioavailable, which means almost all it gets in the system,

1:01:08whether you dissolve in the mouth or you swallow it, you don't have to have a blue mouth, you don't have to have a blue tongue, you can just swallow it. Yes, your urinal term blue, but not your mouth, okay? And the additional thing about trokeys, that's good, is that they're titratable. So one trokey is scored, so it's got a cross in the middle and you can take it, you can break it up into a quarters, halves, three quarters or full. And so it just blue is 16 milligrams per trokey, per full trokey. You break it up into a quarter, that's going to be four milligrams of methylene blue. So I usually recommend starting off either four, one quarter or one half or eight or at one or eight milligrams of methylene blue and finding the dose that works best for you. And you should feel more energy, more focus, more sustainability, you shouldn't feel like caffeine, it shouldn't feel, it doesn't typically feel like stimulating, it just feels like you're just higher elevation energy and more sustained energy for longer. So instead of those caffeine, you know, ups and downs, you just get like a sustained kind of, you kind of go. And that's that's typically what people should feel when they take it. And how many milligrams does a blue canotine, which also has some nicotine and CBD, et cetera, how much how many milligrams does

1:02:13a scored small square half? So blue canotine is a combination of methylene blue with nicotine caffeine and CBD. Okay. So we talked about methylene blue already, small amount, just five milligrams. nicotine doses, one milligram, also pretty low. nicotine is great, it's an anti-inflammatory, it's it's a helps with cognitive function. It's got this cool capacity to enhance brain function, but relax your body at the same time. That's what people like smoking, but I don't recommend smoking, smoking is much higher amounts of nicotine, please do not smoke or vape, but nicotine at low doses is great for cognitive function and inflammation. And so we use that in the formula, one milligram, there's caffeine, 50 milligrams, five zero, and then there's CBD, five milligrams. And so the average dose of that is half of all those doses as a half of a trophy, but that's one more of your your stimulant feel, it's your focus, it's your productivity, it's your verbal fluidity, it's getting you know, getting shit done for three to five hours. And so it's a favorite of the biohacker community, but it's also a favorite people that just want to, you know, feel better and work longer and not have to feel like their mind is going in a billion directions. So for pre-workout,

1:03:17Anastasia, it's also good because it kind of quits the mind for focus. That's why caffeine and nicotine are used as a pre-workout actually because they quiet the mind. They let you focus so that you can actually do your reps and focus on your muscle and your strength and do all that and not, you know, lose your, you know, your mind thinking about, you know, you're to-do list and things like that. Since you recommended it for me, I have a caveat, like, I mean, I'm still breast fitting, so probably I still can't use anything. Like so pregnant and breast fitting have to stave off all the turkeys, all of the supplements you guys make. Yes, I mean, for now, I mean, we don't have any that are available for pregnant women or for breastfeeding women at this time. All of our products for adults, some of them are used in kids with practitioner supervision. We have our melting blue-containing products that also have a potential interaction with SSRIs. The interactions, you know, it's not typically dangerous, but if you are on an SSRI, you should be working with a practitioner to make sure it's okay to take methylene blue. If you have high blood pressure, you have to be monitoring your blood pressure

1:04:19if you're taking methylene blue. You have to have kidneys that work. If you don't have kidneys that work very well, methylene blue is going to stick around for longer too and it may cause damage. Not damage, it may cause a buildup in the system over time, but our gap are urgent ones like the trocom, trozzy. Again, you can't use them if you're pregnant or breastfeeding, but very few contraindications, very few reasons otherwise that you couldn't use those particular products. They're very well tolerated unless you're using other compounds that are similar. Like if you're drinking a whole bunch of alcohol, you may not want to take them in combination with things that are also working on the GABA system or taking benzodiazepines and things like that. You guys make the coolest stuff. So I've been happy to be on this journey of my motherhood, but I do miss my trocom and trozzy that I used to take before getting pregnant. Now, level is going to be two years and a couple of days, so I just chose to breastfeed for longer, but that's the only downside for me. I miss my supplements because I have to think

1:05:21about them. At this point, I don't even know how much is transferred because it's more already for like soothing than nutrition. Of course, he's like carnivore, he's eating equal amount of steak almost with a retiree. So, but get away a little bit longer until I can get back on track with my transcriptions. Now, I'm going to also get on track with the questions. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to eliminate some of the questions. Unfortunately, I do want to touch on one last thing. And this is the thing that last piece, something we haven't spoken about for a couple of years on this podcast, which is part of the true exit, which is the psychological and emotional reset using psychedelics. And this is not, we're not going to, we're not talking right now about, you know, recreational psychedelics. Now we're talking about, you know, medical supervision, et cetera. But this is, this is basically kind of the third, the third

1:06:24spokes wheel here, spoke wheel, spoke wheel, spoke wheel. Anyway, the third kind of, yes, okay, in that, in this, in this, in this mechanism that's going to get you, that's going to get you to orbit, right? So how does one approach that? Why is that important? Why can't we just, you know, get into hyperbarics and forget about it? Like, why do we need that? Forget about it, right? Like, you know, like that. I mean, he talked about orbits and psychedelics together, which is interesting too. But I think what, what we're really talking about here, I mean, Ty, and it's an important piece is that when you're dealing with stress, if there's a trauma component to it, especially, psychedelics would be very, very helpful here. And the psychedelics help break that sympathetic activation because they can break those patterns, those psychological patterns that have been manifest related to previous traumatic experiences. And I've seen a lot of this in the world of ketamine, for example, you know, which is a legal psychedelic being used in a therapeutic setting,

1:07:25which is important, not just a doc that gives you ketamine and sends you out the door. You don't want that. But using psychedelics is a great way to, in a long term, break that sympathetic aspect of that spiral. Because, you know, I had a patient recently, like we talked about how her dad was an alcoholic, and she never felt safe as a kid, right? And when, and how she's in her 30s and has GI problems since she was five, right? And so there's no amount of supplementation that I can give her that's going to help her GI system. There's no diet that I can give her that's going to change her GI system dramatically. The only thing that's going to work is by really addressing those aspects of her biology, because, you know, you guys have probably read or heard of the book, the body keeps the score because this is true. It does. And so, you know, talk therapy can be helpful. EMDR, which is a trauma or least type of therapy with rapid eye movements can be helpful. But it really psychedelic to the frontier of this, which is, you know, having somebody go from having PTSD from being in war to not having PTSD in war in three days is just not something that we've seen otherwise since psychedelics have come on the

1:08:28on the scene over the last, you know, several years. So I'm very excited for what's happening there. Certainly not everything's legal. So you have to be careful what you're getting. Just like get to be careful with what kind of methylene blue you're getting out there because it can be contaminated with heavy metals and toxins and especially liquids on the methylene blue side. But psychedelics as well, you have to be careful of your of the person that's helping you, your officiator, your shaman, your, your guy wherever you want to call them. At least no one knows cleaning, uh, cleaning fish tanks with psychedelics. That would be a whole different. That'd be a waste. That would be a waste. But it's a piece that's important because when I talk about breaking that sympathetic side of things, initially, you can do it by things like gap urges, supplementation, trocom, trozzy, you can do breathwork, meditation, yoga, that's only going to go so far if you really don't look at the root of it all, the sort of why. And there's tons of reasons why it's not just one, but finding that and then addressing it, the virus, psychedelic group is very, very compelling. And I'm sending more and more of my patients that route when I can. And you know, within, within, within, within skin health, it's pretty interesting for both, both reasons. So, uh, as Taciya talked about before, we've

1:09:32actually had people on the podcast talk about the, the need for elevation and then did a, a, a, healthy decline of, uh, of cathacolomins or stress, stress hormones in the, or stress molecules in the brain. And, um, and if we don't have that, we increase the kind of bad molecules like MMPs that we express in our skin, which then ages faster. And that, so that's just like in general, but also we see a lot of people who are undergoing anything from plastic surgery, the cosmetic procedures to, you know, anything from like, you know, even micronealing or laser resurfacing, these things which, which require the body to get into this kind of semi, you know, hibernation state or so it's kind of self-care state. Yeah, parasympathetic. If you are, it can definitely trigger trauma or kind of trigger heightened elevation of emotions. And I think even within that piece, it's extremely important to pre-treat yourself within that aspect before undergoing anything

1:10:33really that would stimulate renewal in the skin. 100%. I mean, everything, like you guys are in a business where everything comes back to what people care about first, which is how they look, right? And so with that aspect in mind, everything else falls in the same category of ecosystem. Where you access your products, where you access our products, it's all the same ecosystem, if you think about it, right? Just a matter of where people are and where they're going to go. So hopefully we can take them on the road of optimizing their health from their skin. Yeah. Well, listen, we have to wrap up. Yeah, we have a very time, but it is always, it's such a pleasure to have you and I am so grateful I got to be part of this discussion this time. And I think we touched on a lot today, but hopefully it was a very relatable podcast. I think everybody could hear a little bit of themselves, so identify themselves and you gave so many tools to act on it. So I hope it was helpful to everyone. I think it was definitely very helpful for me.

1:11:38Well, thank you for having me guys. Consultation, but get the shared with everyone. Yeah. Yeah. And if anybody is more interested in, of course, we've done more, only time I've done a couple of podcasts in the past. We've taken some deep dives as well. And they can always check out our other work at transcriptions and find out more, educate more. And we'll have more of those in the future. And obviously we're a big fan of what you guys are doing. We love you guys as human beings. And we are very excited for our continuous, continued joint journey. Yeah. We're now developing so many more and different products for the alert. I'm going to be sending some of you away. So you get always the first to try them. Don't even, you know, I'm excited. I'm excited. Yeah. I need it. I can get over here guys. So yeah, I'm feeling so. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you all for your love you. Love you. Bye. Take care.