Don’t F**k Around, Get A Prenup!

0:00This is an I-Hike podcast. Guaranteed Human It's the US Open, which means the tennis world is about to lose its mind and I'm here for every second of it. Join me, Renee Stubbs on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast as I break it all down. The matches that matter, the drama that doesn't and the stories everyone's talking about. No cliches, no sugarcoating, just host analysts from someone who's actually been there. Coco, looking real good, her serve looks so much smoother than it has in the past. I was really happy to see you go back to what she looked like a couple years ago and she was winning dominantly. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the iHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there everybody, Amy Robock and TJ Holmes here from the Amy and TJ podcast. We're going to cover everything you need to know during this heated political season. Yes, we just saw Lindsey Graham, the death of a long time senator. Also, we've got a couple of missing members of Congress. Also, we've got a lot of members of Congress behaving badly. We've got accusations, allegations flying all day long on Capitol Hill.

1:03Listen to Amy and TJ on the iHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Self-cars September is your reminder to slow down, check in with yourself, get off your phone and maybe ask why am I like this? I'm Gemis Begg, host of the Psychology of your 20s podcast and this month we're helping you make sense of the person that you are becoming from setting boundaries and navigating friendships to understanding anxiety, confidence, relationships and attachment. Sometimes our biggest decisions, without us even realizing it, aren't driven by what we truly want but by what will prevent us from feeling lonely or being alone. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the iHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On Big Lives we take a single cultural icon, and we pull apart the story behind the image, discovering forgotten interviews that change exactly how we see these giants of our culture.

2:07We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes. I'm Emmanuel Jochi, and Kai Wright, and this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives on the iHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I, D. Bart, too, it's your celebrity, mentor Kelly, Ben Salona. Today I'm joined by one of our favorites from Bachelor Nation and host of the podcast after reality. It's Courtney Robertson, high court. Hey, Kelly. Today we get to welcome back to the pod, who's a wealth of information. He's a divorce attorney and huge on TikTok.

3:07Today we're going to talk all about pre-naps. Welcome back to the pod, Dennis Patrono. So my knowledge of pre-naps. I'm so excited to talk to the expert. I did not have a pre-nap for my first wedding, my first and only. My second engagement, I asked for a pre-nap. He declined. And so I called up my wedding four days before that decision of my life. Smart, good. Good, good, good, good. Good, good, good, good. And keep you safe. That's what Man is supposed to do. That's called boundaries, and that's called insisting on them. I love it. Dennis, it's Courtney here. I'm in the throes of a divorce, and to my knowledge, it's cheaper to keep her. Yeah, I think for the most part, but here's the funny part about pre-naps these days. More and more women are opting for pre-naps and asking for them than ever before. I mean, the recent stat that I looked at was like 52% of women are asking for pre-naps, which is so foreign to me because having been in this industry for 25 plus years, I'm

4:12accustomed to, you know, here's this over-successful guy. I, you know, gets married and says, hey, I want to pre-nap for all the stuff that I have before we get married. And of course, they don't tell you, I want you to be a stay-at-home mom. I want you to take care of the kids. I want, I want, I want, I want, I want, I want. But if we split, you don't get anything. Gritty, gritty. Well, last time I checked, I don't have a pre-nap, and I'm in the middle of a divorce, and I had just moved into a new house. I have three little kids. Everything I've done my research on you, everything that you're saying. I'm going through, so just to give a little context, my dad didn't have a pre-nap. He was married for 40 years. He's now remarried for seven years, and what's his is his and what's hers is hers. But I don't have a pre-nap, and I am going through a very contentious divorce currently. Sorry about that, Quartan. Yeah, yeah, and, and, and, and I was at least relatively familiar with that. That is, so it's funny because they, if you pull people, they say the four most scary things in life.

5:16Top four, one of which is death, right? The other of which is divorce. One, you know, out of the top four scariest things people want, you know, when you say, what's the scariest thing? So, so I don't envy the situation you're in, and as much as I've seen it from the outside, I've never been through it myself from the inside, so, so, you know, stay strong. Then I'm also within a journey. So, I have an order of protection to shout out to that. I'm going through the proper channels, but it, it is scary, Dennis, to talk about that. It's like grief, you know, the five stages of grief, and also having three little kids. So, I'm sorry to jump in so quick, but last night was the first night I didn't have the kids for a week. Dealing with three little kids on your own is also scary. Yeah. And it's funny because there's, but listen, there's two sides to that, right? So, there's the scary part of having them with you and managing everything, because that's

6:16a lot, but then even worse than that, not having them with you. Because when you establish that relationship with your kids, I mean, I have two of my own. It's like you go through so much to raise kids well, and I say, well, okay? Anybody can just throw together kids, and then it's not as hard, but to raise kids well, it's a lot, but then you establish such a bonds with them that when they're not around. It's funny because my brother-in-law, we see each other from time to time. He has four kids, and his last kid just went off to college, and he said to me, Dennis, he says, I think this is the high watermark in my life, you know? Not to say you don't have your own independence and your own stuff, but like, you know. No, but it is. It is. I keep saying it's so easy to get married, and it's so expensive and hard to get divorced. Yeah. It's a lot, and like I said, I'm moving, new surroundings, and... But yeah, it's, I mean, it's like the only degree they grant you. It's like going to college, right? Right.

7:17You can get married, done, easy. To get unmarried, the thing that I want people to know, it's really, really expensive and really hard. Yeah. Well, it's not just hard and expensive, but actually it's a... Basically, it's a filing, and so it's not up to you, your lawyer, and your ex-husband. Right. As Dennis knows, it's the state that decides when and how. And so you're dealing with a fourth party, and I'm sorry that you're going through that. You know what's interesting, Dennis, too, because I'm such a huge fan of yours on TikTok, and you say, I have a really great thing. You talk about pre-naps not being romantic. So when I tried to, you know, instill my pre-nap, my ex was said, no. But a lot of people who are getting these pre-naps are realizing that these are just pieces of paper that really aren't valid because once you go into the floor to force process, people are like, that pre-nap, it says it's not, it doesn't work. I'm not giving you ex, I'm not giving you what, what are your thoughts?

8:18It doesn't work if you do it poorly. If you do it well, it will likely work. So if you walk into my office tomorrow and you say, hey, I've had these assets premarital, I've earned these things, I built my company, I released a record album, I published a book, whatever it is, those generally can and should stay yours as part of the pre-nap. If you say in the next breath, well, I want to say that I don't have to pay child support if she has the kids and I don't want to do it. People want to put ridiculous things in pre-naps. And the problem is, then when you get to court, they just look ridiculous. So now the court and the standard varies from state to state. As best I'm aware, there are some other states that basically say, we're just going to do a redo when we look at your pre-nap and see if it's fair. If it's fair according to the laws in your state and in a way that they would resolve the divorce in your state, then it's upheld. And if it's not, then they just revisit everything.

9:20So then to me, it can kind of be somewhat worthless. But here's the point. I've never been the divorce lawyer that says, let's see how we can screw this person out of that, screw this person out of this. It doesn't get you anywhere. So let's put it this way. Even if you did that, what do you end up with on the other side? Somebody who's pissed off, they feel like they've been taking advantage of. And then we say, okay, good luck. Sit next to each other at graduation. Go to your first communion together, watch them get married. That's never going to work. That's never going to work. Can I ask a question real quick, honey? Yes, sure. So I'm in the divorce, my divorce is filing. And it's filed. It was June 19th, my son's birthday, which is a national holiday. But I put a waste clause in, because I've been dealing with infidelity in my divorce filing. So, you know, I'm in Arizona. So it's a no fault state, so all the infidelity. But let's say he's been spending money on girlfriends, this and that, to kind of walk it back a little bit. I put a waste clause in my divorce filing.

10:22Can you speak to that a little bit? Like what we earned during, you know, I have the podcast, this, that, the other thing, just to kind of run it back a little bit. Recoup that for sure. Hey, recoup that for sure. And again, you know, one of the more contentious divorces I had, Westchester County, which is one of the bigger, one of the higher income areas, one of the bigger areas in my locale. Yeah, there was lingerie for the girlfriend that we're just there were. Was it good lingerie or tackish? Oh, oh, good God. No. Who knows? I mean, listen, from this fellow's behavior, I mean, he was kind of like, you know, and then come home to the wife and want to kind of have the cake and eat a two sort of thing. Yeah, that's what I'm dealing with. So, Dennis, do these clauses like infidelity clauses, waste clauses, do they actually hold up in court? I think it really just depends on your particular state. And in my mind, if it's me, if you come into my office and you're saying like, Hey, I want to try to uphold this. I usually suggest no. I usually suggest those are very difficult.

11:23Those are very difficult to uphold. You know, at least in New York state, because they're going to look very far into the judges. We do mostly vanilla prenumps. And I prefer to do vanilla nuts and bolts prenumps. I don't want to start putting these fringe terms into it because then you know what? Now it's subjected to being questioned and motion practice and possibly hearings on it. So, I do it costs you money. Do I want to charge you more money after the prenupt or less? The point of the prenupt is to save you money. It's not to get charged money. So I'm like, look, if you're worried about this person cheating on you, you have much larger issues to really analyze. Bigger fish to fry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So speaking of these prenups and let's bring in post-numps as well, should they be updated and if so, how frequently? They can be updated, but what you want to do with a prenupt is you want to keep it as

12:25broad as you can. So it will cover the future. Now, if things change during the marriage, I mean post-numps are more difficult to uphold than prenups because prenups is before you get married, you kind of protecting things. Now, once you start asking people for things to negotiate things they've acquired during the marriage, you're kind of flying in the face of the standard under the law because technically in New York State, once you get married, everything you're earning, everything you're building is generally together unless you're prenupt says something otherwise. So what I prefer to do is the way our prenupt is crafted. It's crafted in a situation that basically says you're separate stuff that you had prior to the marriage is separate. And if the two of you say, hey, I decide whatever I make under my name in terms of building etc. is mine. So okay, I have a software company and I invent something during the marriage that I've done solely exclusively in and of myself. I want that to stay mine and mine alone. I mean, those generally can and should be upheld.

13:26But if it's like we work together and we bought a house and now I want to say like who's split, sometimes those are difficult. The post-numps I suggest when marriage is around the rocks and you're trying counseling and it's just not working. You're not quite sure where it's going to go. While you're still relatively level headed and you're not mired in the midst of litigation, try to reach an agreement. Try to be right about each other. Try to be fair and do a post-nump. I mean, I suggest look, either get out or both jump in with both feet to counseling and try to work through it. I also love on TikTok how you talk about mediation and that's how my ex has been and I we got divorced. He was a high profile person, the fashion industry. I was a high profile person in the fashion industry and it just my best friend was like, he literally drove up to my house. He's like, this is how you're going to get divorced. You're going to mediate or your accountant, his accountant, you guys are going to tie a bow on it. We're going to put it in the press, one line in the press and it's going to be over.

14:27It was the smartest thing. The only thing I regret, obviously the post-nump, the pre-nump wasn't the smart thing for me to do with my last relationship. What I didn't like is I didn't like all the press around it and I was very concerned. The daughter of a lawyer, very concerned that people were going to perceive me as this hard woman that gets the pre-nump and I'm not a hard woman. I'm just a mother protecting my nest. Mama bear. I'm a mama bear too. I Kelly, I love you and I'm going to take your energy. I think that the next question should be, how should you approach having someone sign a pre-nump or a post-nump? Also you're in the public eye, that's, I'm as well. But Dennis, how should you approach having someone sign a pre-nump that's being resistant to the idea? Well, let's put it this way. Let's start with being concerned or not about being in the public eye. Yes, it's a very real thing.

15:29For many people, your livelihood depends on your public image. How ever, right? However, you got to protect yourself and protect your kids and protect the things you've worked so hard for. So for the successful ladies out there, especially, and even just, I have a lot of young professionals that they're banking on themselves. They're like, I know what my brand is and I know what it's going to be. And I don't want a chance if this doesn't work that I lose everything. So it's interesting that you say that because I work in high-end real estate and so I work in the transaction business and my other, I have, and my other life. And I was afraid when I asked him to sign a pre-nump and then I called the wedding off and the press was coming going and I was like, oh my God, the press is going to come after me and say that I'm all these things. And what's interesting is that my clients were like, that is so buttoned up. You were so amazing. The press and the public were very, very, very welcoming. I mean, this podcast really started because of my situation, which is so unbelievable.

16:33It could talk to people like Courtney. They make money. The press, everybody has a job to do, right? Right. But my point is that it could have gone the other way. It could have been a way where it's like Kelly's a monster, all these things. But it was the opposite where we have this new podcast. We're learning all this information. We're bonding together as a community. How do we help other people so that they are not in a situation like ours? And so I was just very, very, very, so happy about it. But it was interesting because some people in the real estate industry were like, oh, this is going to hurt your business. I was like, no, no, no, they love it because I'm locked up. They love it that I'm very professional with my personal life and my professional life. It was like it was like literally pivoted me in a bigger direction for what was just amazing. But that's a lot of weight on your shoulders to carry. Yes, they. I mean, looking at those little frail shoulders, like I have, you know, I just got back from

17:35Sedona. I've been feeling and Dennis, you can hop in whenever. But that's a lot to carry mentally. I think in what I saw on you, Dennis, it's like the woman tends to be the she fault parent, right? Yeah. And that's just how it goes. Like I'm moving. Yeah. I'm filing for divorce. I'm leaving the husband who's a narc and narcissists. Like, so you're, you're dealing with the public media stuff and you can't carry all of that. At some point, you will break. Right. But here's the thing. Guys have been doing that for decades, hundreds of years without any backache, right? So now, so now here's what I say. So, so you need a support system when you go through your divorce process and anything associated with a breakup, a pre-napple, but whatever it is, you should have a support system. And if you're in a position where you're a high profile person, you got to have a PR person there getting their arms around this thing because there is, there is nothing

18:36easier, in my opinion, or more compelling than female empowerment of all of your success and say, hey, things guys have been doing for decades, things guys have been doing for hundreds of years now, just like 51%, 52% of women are now asking for pre-napps. There's no shame, there's no embarrassment, there's nothing to explain. If everything you've worked so hard for, including your family and your kids, you're stepping up and protecting. And you've got control of your situation and you deal with it. There's no reason. In my opinion, there's no more compelling story than that. Hey there, everybody. Amy Robock and TJ Holmes here from the Amy and TJ podcast with mid-term elections just around the corner were breaking down the biggest political stories leading up to November. And some of those big political stories aren't just what's happening on Capitol Hill. Yes, we just saw Lindsey Graham, the death of a long time senator. Also we've got a couple of missing members of Congress.

19:38Also we've got a lot of members of Congress behaving badly. We've got accusations, allegations flying all day long on Capitol Hill. It's just like a reality show. We're going to cover everything you need to know during this heated political season. And it starts with our morning run. Yes, go for a run with us. Maybe you can take us along when you're on your actual run outside or if you don't feel like going out still. You get what we're saying. It's our morning run. It's our daily news rundown of the top stories of the gets you going before you even finish that first cup of coffee. Listen to Amy and TJ on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. The US Open is back. That's right. Two weeks of incredible, exciting tennis. Some outrageous overreactions from players and some hot takes from people who have, let's face it. No idea what they're talking about, but it's okay because I'm here for them and you. I'm Renee Stubbs and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast I'll be breaking down everything that happens after big matches, who's playing the best tennis, who looks like they could

20:38possibly win this tournament. The surprise runs the heartbreaking exits and all the drama that only the US Open can deliver. Coco, looking real good. Her serve looks so much smoother than it has in the past. I was really happy to see Eager back to what she looked like a couple of years ago when she was winning dominantly. Listen, I'm going to let Venus decide when she wants to retire. I'm going to let the tournaments decide when they don't want to give her a wildcard because she still puts bums in seats. She still sells and people love to see her play. You always say on this show that this is the best predictor of who will do well at the US Open. If this is a preview, then we are in for a treat. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the iHot Radio app. Apple podcasts all wear. Ever you get you podcasts. Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Pointer, Chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Adriah Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you.

21:42A hundred percent of women go through menopause. It can be such a struggle for our quality of life, but even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it? The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything I never used to forget things. I've seen that one they have dementia and the other one is do I have ADHD? There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to have less pain, to have better mood, and also to have better day-to-day life. Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Pointer on the iHot Radio app. Apple podcasts are where ever you're listening now. Dear Hunnies, this is goodbye. On February of 2024, celebrated illustrator and children's book author, Patre Mathers, and her husband Michael, mailed letters to dozens of friends and family members to let them know that they had died by suicide. By the time you get the shalliter boat petra and I will be dead. Next stop, Wonderland.

22:43Patre and Michael were by all accounts healthy, happy, and in love. Why did they do it? And what did it do to the people they left behind? I would have given a million reasons to not leave this world had I known. I keep coming back to a truly hope that Patre was a thousand percent on board with the plan. Do you think of him as having killed her? Yes, I do. I hold Michael responsible for my mother's death. I'm Leon Nevock. And I'm Alice Gregory. Together we set out to interview everyone who got one of Patre and Michael's letters. And as one married couple trying to understand another. Listen to death of an artist on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I love that you're dispelling this stigma by 52% and saying that women are now making these great decisions and I love that so much.

23:45Just because you get a prenup doesn't mean you're not a beautiful woman. You get a prenup because you're protecting your family like a sea. Well, I hear you talking about core values and I'm still in the throes of it. Like for me, my husband isn't in the tech world. We don't have a lot of assets but I'm curious. The houses are only assets. So he's going to either have to buy him out to walk it back. Kelly, sorry. I'm going through it. But that's our main asset is the house. I'm on it and I would like to ask that. You know, either he's going to have to buy me out or I'm going to have to buy him out. I don't want to live there anymore because there's too many ghosts. I've just moved like I said. Dennis, if you could speak to that for somebody who might be going through it on a smaller scale. Yeah, I mean, I think, listen, we handle multi, multi, multi, million dollar asset divorces and we also handle just general two wage earners, you know, moms, moms a teacher.

24:47Dad works for IBM like they have a couple of, you know, pension plan, retirements in a house. We deal with hundreds of those if not thousands. Yeah. As you go through these processes and I'll share with you another story. When I, I never felt worse about myself than when I applied for my first mortgage. The more and this is, this is many years ago, right? And this is my, my wife had already been very successful at that point, right? I was a lawyer. It was a very successful, but I didn't really have my finances in order. Mortgage broker looks at my, he's like, you got too much debt. You don't make enough money like, like, give me the house. I'm buying it. But listen, that experience allowed me to build on something that got me to where I am. So the reality, the harsh reality of going, because most people don't do a network statement until they go through a divorce process, the harsh reality of looking at that network statement and saying, hey, I need to make more money.

25:49Hey, and that is a motivating factor. That knowledge and that experience is power moving forward. You can't look at it like, oh my god, I'm terrible at it. You can't just power. Harding point. It is a starting point. It's not an end. So when we talk about the cases where yes, maybe all there is to divide is a house. But then what I say to you is why in the hell are we going back and forth with two lawyers to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars to say, so I'll give you a good example. I'm your lawyer, Courtney. Courtney, your husband wants to know if he can pick up the children at 430. No, no, I can't. I can only do 415. Okay. I'll give you that phone conversation. He changed the locks on me the other day and I have the order of protection. So I can't get my personal belongings. So just to... What? There's going to be 25 phone calls over every little 15 minute increments. To change. To change. To change.

26:49To change. Right. So what I say to clients is I tell them and I think, you know, and what pains me in the cases where there isn't a whole lot to really fight over. And yet my client says to me, I don't know. Care Dennis, this is going to be contentious. It's going to be a knockdown drag. I'd say average divorce lawyer per side in New York state is 20 to like 50,000 dollars. Like, what are you going to, where is that money coming from? I'm going to make me cry. Yeah, but you know what? You will get through the process. You will be better on the other side. You just have to stay patient and keep your team, your support team close to help you through it. You know what was interesting is that, you know, people think that after I called off my wedding, that my life was just going to be like, you know, it's like, oh, Kelly, so rich, everything's so great. Well, my taxes weren't filed correctly. So after I called off my wedding, my there was like crazy amount of taxes that hadn't been

27:57allocated for organized. So not only did I feel like absolutely, even though I was protecting myself, then I had to, then I was like in a financial situation. So I'm like, let me get this straight. So I do the right thing. And now I'm getting slammed with a big tax bill. Like how does this math work? Like how, you know, so everybody caught my, my, the reason I'm bringing this up is not because it's a pity party for me, but to tell you that you're not alone. And there's, there, you're going to have these emotions and you're going to go through these things and, you know, financial trauma, you know, it's not, it's your, it's a constant. You're like, how am I supposed to do this? How am I supposed to do that again, please? You're not alone. You're not. You're not alone for people who are listening and tuning in. You are not alone. There are hundreds of thousands of people in the same boat that you're in and you will get through it. You will see that side. Just keep your eye on the horizon. Block out the noise. Kelly, you're the talent. Kelly, by the way, like I don't do well with paperwork.

28:58I'm, I was married, hopefully soon, to be ex, who's an attorney who's also intimidated me with the law. I'm, I'm surrounded by attorneys, but you talk about like how scary it is going through that. But Kelly, you're a talent. And so am I. Like I've always had people helping me. I modeled for 15 years with like paperwork and documents. That alone is scary. I have a stack of people that's filing up. Right now because I'm going to get spousal maintenance. I'm going to get child support. And I have to fill out this document. So when you talk about your taxes, I mean, talk about Uncle Sam. It's, that's, it's stressful. Right. But people just think it's like, people think that in our industry, if you do something, that's bright, that everything else is just so great. Well, to your point, there's all this, this, this back of house that just kind of can be really, really devastating. Okay. I need to ask this question because this is a big, big, big question, Dennis.

29:58Pet co-parenting. What can a pet clause, how, what, what can a pet clause help with after divorce? Because people are not having children as much, but they are having a lot of pets, having raising pets. The problem with pet clauses is that the way New York State views it now, it's almost like custody for children. So in the same way, theoretically, that custody for children could be a battle whether you have a terms about it in the prenup or not or because the situation is constantly changing, not as much with pets as they are with kids, because kids' circumstances change as age, school et cetera. Right. But I think, look, I think if you're doing a prenup, put it in there, put it in there. Because minimally, even if it's not entirely enforceable, the judge will get the flavor for or the spirit of what the two of you had already contractually previously agreed

30:59to. So you can't say when you come into court, well, they never had a relationship with the pet. They didn't want anything to do with the pet. No, it's in the damn prenup. We negotiated for it. I just grabbed my cat the other day. It's my cat. I've had him for 10 years, so Kelly. I just feel like, you know, children, pets is just like another tether for either the fake female or the male, whoever is the one that is, you know, has more animosity because there's always, there's always one who takes things differently. And then you do it. It's a tool. And I don't mean that in a positive sense. No. It's a tool for them to put this, I have one going on, you know, right now when I've had tons of them, where they use the pet as a lever, as a tool to get at your emotions. They don't give a shit about the pet they never have. They don't care. You want to go on a vacation where you have to pick up the cat or dog at 7 a.m. You can't go on the vacation. Right. And the problem for me is that those cases tend to, many times, not always, they tend to

32:05also be the cases where the only asset is a house or you're not, you're not multi-millionaires. You're making decent living. You're doing really well successful, but you don't have 50,000 a side, 100,000 a side to fight over the pet. And what brings me about it is I have to say, I get it, but you've got to take away the things. You've got to take away as many things as you can from the other side that they're using as tool to get at you with. You've got to take those things away. How do you do that in writing? I mean, I grabbed my cat the other day. I mean, so can we take a little deeper there? Like how do you take those tools away? It's in the prenump or what if you don't have a prenump because I just grabbed my cat the other day and I've had the cat for 10 years. So I think if you had a prior to the marriage. Yes. Okay. So that's not as much of an issue. If it was something you acquired during the marriage, during the marriage, technically

33:06is a little bit different. Pets mean a lot. They're like, sentient, they're like kids. It is. It is. And it's very easy if you say, hey, it's the 40th anniversary Corvette that she really loves and I'm just going to like hang it, hold it overhead and try to get out of it. That's fine because then I just say, let go of the car. Who cares? Whatever it's worth to get out. Let them have it. But when it's a pet or it's kids, you can't do it with kids clearly and now you really can't do it with pets either. I mean, listen, I have three German Jeopard's and two horses and two dog and a bunch of chickens. So we have a little bit of a hobby farm at the house. I got that. So I couldn't imagine not having the pets around. Do you have any amazing divorce stories where you've had to tell somebody like you got to lose the Corvette because that's also interesting to me. You got to lose the car. How do those conversations go? How do you let somebody down gently? You don't get the chickens, you don't get the Corvette.

34:08I mean, I would love to hear a little dialogue on that. I really don't do it, to be honest. I really don't let people down gently. I don't because that's not what you pay me for. You pay me for that. You pay me for it and I've used this quote a hundred times. I think on the last show as well. I tell you what you need to hear and not what you want to hear. Right. I have to tell you what you want to hear. I'm going to say, oh, we're going to do this. So many lawyers do that. Even in the initial consultation. We're going to get this. We're going to. I remember over here in consultation, we did a little while ago. And the other side says to or the prospective client says to our lawyer, I just want to make sure we do this and that to stick it to them. Oh, wow. Not what we do. Not what we do because here's what happens. If I do that, let's say I'm unscrupulous and I don't care and I just want to make money. Let's just say that's why I'm, but I'm not. Then I take money from you. I fight him or her. Then I ask you for more money to fight him or her.

35:08And then at the end of the day, we don't get what you're looking for because it was ridiculous from the start and the judge saw through you just trying to stick it to the other side. Now I've spent $100,000 of your money litigating for something you didn't accomplish and guess who they want to stick it to now. You. The messenger always gets killed. Yeah. Don't shoot the messenger. And also I think like because I'm doing with an attorney, there's a code of asset. And you have a good, you're a good human being and you're a good man. But I would love to hear. So you don't, you let him, you just tell him how it is. I just don't. Sometimes they go and find another lawyer. That's okay. It's so funny because people ask, well, do you ever represent narcissists, you know, people who are just out to get the other side. They say, yeah, yeah, I do. I take them as I find them. But my job is to try to translate what you want, what you're seeking to accomplish in a way that's going to be palatable or understandable to the judge, right?

36:12But if you're coming up with something that's ridiculous, I'm just not going to do that. And I'm just, and I'll say, you know, look, here's what's fair in this case. Here's what we're going to try to accomplish because I think what the resolution's in divorce cases, the small things are everything. The little nuances in your custody or your assets or make a huge difference over time. Dennis, when I, when I was getting, you know, winding down from the, from trying to get the pre-knip organized, I was with Marilyn Chins was my lawyer and I'll never forget walking into her office. And I was so nervous. My hands were clammy and I sat down and I just started bawling my eyes out. I was like, Marilyn, why can I not meet a man who wants to protect me? What is going on? That's what I came in with. Not like I'm such a baller. I'm going to do this. I'm on housewives. I was like, what is wrong with me?

37:12And I think a lot of women feel like that as well. They're like, well, the people women feel like that. They're like, why don't they love me enough to protect me? And I think that that's a very common thing. And when I told a friend of mine that I was crying, she's like, why would you be crying? I'm like, because like, I'm just so disappointed in myself, in him. It's all a shame. And just an embarrassment. Yes, I was so embarrassed. I mean, for me, I was humiliated. Even though it was the right thing to do, the good news is that he's not my lobster. I'm going to find my lobster. He's going to come. He's on his way. I know he's on his way, because I feel finally after my ex-husband who is so much older than me cheating on me. And then this guy not wanting to do a prenup. Like I am now, like I feel so good about myself. So I'm not going to cry in a lawyer's office anymore. I am going to embrace my new future. Yes, I'm going to come with you.

38:16With my new mystery human, whoever that is. You don't need somebody. You got yourself. And I keep telling everybody that. The freedom in taking your power back is what we're doing here today and helping people and Dennis and Kelly, thank you. It's scary. You cry. It's like the five stages of grief right now. I'm obviously in the man phase today. But you got your cat back. I got my cat. I got a smoky Robertson. You're a smoky Robertson. Let's go. The US Open is back. That's right. Two weeks of incredible, exciting tennis. Some outrageous overreactions from players and some hot takes from people who have, let's face it. No idea what they're talking about, but it's okay because I'm here for them and you. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'll be breaking down everything that happens after big matches, who's playing the best tennis, who looks like they could possibly

39:17win this tournament, the surprise runs, the heartbreaking exits and all the drama that only the US Open can deliver. Coco, looking real good. Her surf looks so much smoother than it has in the past. I was really happy to see Ega back to what she looked like a couple of years ago when she was winning dominantly. Listen, I'm going to let Venus decide when she wants to retire. I'm going to let the tournaments decide when they don't want to give her a wild card because she still puts bums and sates. She still sells and people love to see her play. You always say on this show that this is the best predictor of who will do well at the US Open. If this is a preview, then we are in for a treat. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHOT radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, everybody. Amy Robock and TJ Holmes here from the Amy and TJ podcast with mid-term elections just around the corner. We're breaking down the biggest political stories leading up to November. And some of those big political stories aren't just what's happening on Capitol Hill. Yes, we just saw Lindsey Graham, the death of a long time senator.

40:21Also, we've got a couple of missing members of Congress. Also, we got a lot of members of Congress behaving badly. We got accusations, allegations flying all day long on Capitol Hill. It's just like a reality show. We're going to cover everything you need to know during this heated political season. The head starts with our morning run. Yes, go for a run with us. Maybe you can take us along when you're on your actual run outside or if you don't feel like going out still. You get what we're saying. It's our morning run. It's our daily news rundown of the top stories that will get you going before you even finish that first cup of coffee. Listen to Amy and TJ on the IHOT radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Pointer, Chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Aedria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you. A hundred percent of women go through menopause.

41:24It can be such a struggle for our quality of life, but even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it? The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything I never used to forget things. They're concerned that one they have dementia and the other one is do I have ADHD? There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to have less pain, to have better mood, and also to have better day-to-day life. Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Pointer on the IHOT radio app, Apple podcasts are wherever you're listening now. Dear Hunnies, this is goodbye. In February of 2024, celebrated illustrator and children's book author, Patre Mathers, and her husband Michael, mailed letters to dozens of friends and family members to let them know that they had died by suicide. By the time you get the shalliter of both Petra and I will be dead. Next stop, Wonderland. Patre and Michael were by all accounts healthy, happy, and in love.

42:26Why did they do it? And what did it do to the people they left behind? I would have given a million reasons to not leave this world had I known. I keep coming back to a truly hope that Patre was a thousand percent on board with the plan. Do you think of him as having killed her? Yes, I do. I hold Michael responsible for my mother's death. I'm Leon Nevock. And I'm Alice Gregory. Together we set out to interview everyone who got one of Patre and Michael's letters. There's one married couple trying to understand another. Listen to death of an artist on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, last and final questions. What are the things you see people freak out over when it comes to prenups? I think the biggest things they freak out about is figuring out how they're going to discuss initially having a prenup and the fact that the other person needs to be part of the

43:32plan. I mean, I think the problem with a lot of the, you know, I hate to sound like it's sexist, but a lot of the guys that I've dealt with that are uber successful and maybe you're marrying somebody substantially younger than them. You can just see the control sort of like there, but they're like, you know, the reality is, but wait a second. But you said that you they're going to be a stay at home mom and you're going to take care of this and then, well, I have to give a lot of this could be overturned. Like I, I can't say I won't have to pay child support and I won't have to be made up. Like no, like, you know, and I think listen, the one of the biggest problems we have with prenups is that people don't know how to approach that conversation. And they wait until like we had one just the other day. Can you get a prenup done in four weeks? I, I can, but, but, you know, when you try to rush a prenup and you, and they don't

44:34have a lawyer and you just want me to draft something, the hand to them to sign and here's handing it to them like on the, on the alter steps like those really call into question that reliability and the sustainability of that prenup. A prenup done well has a lot of disclosure, which is exchange of information, a lot of transparency, which means see what each person has on each side. And it takes a lot of time to negotiate well with each person having a representative. That's what makes the prenup most reliable because if you do that prenup where you hand it to the other person that your, your lawyer drafted the prenup, they don't know much about it. You hand it to them in the alter steps and they sign it. And then six months later, a year later, five years later, you want to walk in and say, Oh, but I've got a prenup and they're like, but this person didn't have a lawyer, they didn't have any disclosure, they didn't know anything about it. They felt like they were under deresh. That's like the Gary Turner, the first golden bachelor got married on TV to Teresa Nist.

45:39And they, she was the one that wanted to look it up, wanted a prenup. They got married on the ABC show just saying. And, but it's, it seems like a fight, you know, and like you said, you, you don't want to sneak that in. You have to, it sounds like it starts at the beginning of the relationship. It's so interesting because when you buy, when you buy a home or you're buying an apartment, you have to show the assets. So it's like, wait a minute, all of a sudden you go to get married and you don't want to show assets. And I think too. And I think, and I think we're going to, we're going to say thank you guys so much. We've gone through so much with the emotional trauma, the financial trauma. Dennis, you have the best advice. Your TikTok is amazing, insightful and fun. Courtney, you and your family love you. I hope you're everything goes well. I'm here for you on an offline. I'm here for you. You guys are both shotgun for me. All right. I know. I know. Thank you, ladies. This was so much fun.

46:39Do it first. I love that Courtney. Do it first. Get the information first. Just wait before the prenup so you know who you're marrying. Sorry. Head the squeeze that in. No, no. Squeeze it all in. I don't want to rush the conversation. I want to, I think that we all have a voice and I think that you and all three of us have something in common, a common thread. It's no accident that we are here today to use our voices and our power to help people that don't know, that have to run in the house and grab the cat. Now the locks are changed. I mean, like, you don't know what you don't know. And I hope that we can prevent other people from feeling as terrible as divorce can feel because it's very scary. And if you don't have a support group, you think you have no one. You don't have no one. You're not alone. Right here. Right here. This is your support group. There you go. You're going to make me cry, Danette. Seriously. I love that.

47:40I'm going to go get a cheeseburger and a cold beer on you. Yes. I have cheeseburger and a cold beer. We got to laugh our way through it. You know, I know my sense of humor is in for everybody. Let's go. I want onions. All right, you guys. I sure hope you enjoyed this episode of I Do Part Two with me and Kelly and Dennis. If you did, please write, review, subscribe. Maybe share it with a friend that this could help. That's what we're here for. Do you have questions about pre-numps? Maybe you need some advice. We want to help. So send us an email or leave a voice mail. All the info is in the show notes and follow us on social media. That's the digital age we live in. I do part two, an I Heart podcast. We're falling in love is the main objective, but also please fall in love with yourself. Thanks for listening. It's the US Open, which means the tennis world is about to lose its mind.

48:42And I'm here for every second of it. Join me, Renee Stubbs on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast as I break it all down. The matches that matter, the drama that doesn't and the stories everyone's talking about. No cliches, no sugarcoating, just host analysts from someone who's actually been there. Coco, looking real good, her serve looks so much smoother than it has in the past. I was really happy to see you go back to what she looked like a couple years ago when she was winning dominantly. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, everybody. Amy Robock and TJ Holmes here from the Amy and TJ podcast. We're going to cover everything you need to know during this heated political season. Yes, we just saw Lindsey Graham, the death of it long time. And also we've got a couple of missing members of Congress. Also, we got a lot of members of Congress behaving badly. We got accusations, allegations flying all day long on Capitol Hill. Listen to Amy and TJ on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

49:43to your podcasts. Let's go! The countdown is on. To the most talked about music festival on the planet. Let's go crazy! Oh, I Heart Radio Music Festival. The show is presented by Capitol One September 18th and 19th at T-Mobile Arena Las Vegas. 15 artists, two nights, one stage. Listen on I Heart Radio stations across the country and stream it live on Disney Plus and Hulu. BTS. I hate art, I don't like dancing. Benzen Boone, Cardi B, Sierra. Google dolls, Kenny Chesby, Ariel, Lenny Wilson, Lucera Fim, Major Lazer, Snoop Dogg, The Smash and Pumpkins. Weezer. Sarah Larson, a special performance by Breakouts, Sarah Stela Lefty. And never seen before artist collaborations, you'll never see again. One wild weekend, are you ready? Buy your tickets now at AXS.com.

50:46Self-care September is your reminder to slow down, check in with yourself, get off your phone and maybe ask why am I like this? I'm Gemis Bayek, host of the Psychology of your 20s podcast and this month we're helping you make sense of the person that you are becoming, from setting boundaries and navigating friendships, to understanding anxiety, confidence, relationships and attachment. Sometimes our biggest decisions, without us even realizing it, aren't driven by what we truly want, but by what will prevent us from feeling lonely or being alone. Listen to the Psychology of your 20s on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.