Does a Cody Bellinger-Cubs Reunion MAKE SENSE?! | CHGO Cubs Podcast

0:00Hey Chicago, what do you say? It's the CTO Cubs podcast on a Monday presented by Toyota. Let's go places. What's up everybody? Hope you had a wonderful weekend. Chicago Bears going to the wildcard round. We're here to talk about some Cubs, Joy Kirstopples, Justin Roman in the studio. Sean Anderson running the ones and twos today, and we have a very special return. It's the return of the Stuckmeyer. That's right, ladies and gentlemen. There he is, everybody. 2026. Better than ever. It's the new model, Luke Stuckmeyer. Luke, man, how are you? Thank you so much. Good to see you. Just let us know how you're doing. Someone's muted. You muted yourself. You're not talking. We cannot hear you. Is Luke possibly could be muted? As we're doing some Toyota super chats. Greg Brenda. All right.

1:03Well, welcome back, Luke. We got Gary in the chat here right now. We promised Luke visually. We did promise. There it is. There it is. I don't know what was up with that. Okay, we're back. We're back. Okay, now let's do the car break. Tell us how you are. Let's, you know, happy New Year. Tell us how you're feeling going into this year and where you are right now. Well, I was trying to say, first of all, thank you to Gary for saying welcome back. Thank you for the get well soon package. The chocolate covered fruits to my favorite things right now. Vitamin C and chocolate. So I will start on that after the show. How am I doing? 2025 ended like a wounded animal staggering to the highway and 2026 has started like I'm roadkill on the back of the highway cleanup truck. That's that's so far. How it's going. Okay. I feel like road. Yeah, we've peeled you off the side of the road to hear your thoughts loaded to hear your thoughts on Hunter Harvey.

2:08Oh, you're right. But I'm going to have 15 days. What's what's happened? Really? The Cubs sign of Hunter Harvey. You missed nothing. What are you doing? I said all along. I felt like maybe you were faking a little bit because you were just kind of waiting for the big signing and then you were going to come back for like the big breakfast, whatever it is, you know, but but you really were sick. We're happy to have you back and Luke really wanted to be here in studio. I mean, Joey, we're like, no, you're good. You're good. How'd it remote? Yeah, right. You kind of hang out of the house for a little longer and we'll see you soon. That's right. And I was told by the front by the people up top. I was like, hey, it playoff start this week. Why don't we just keep you in a bubble for like three more days? And as we don't make sense, nobody wants to risk a Greg Bragg's is phone got hurt yesterday apparently. Yeah, broken phone Bragg's lost his mind. As we joke though, before the show, we are sending you to the Green Bay Packers locker room this week for a rousing motivational speech of coughing, spitting, whatever, whatever you want, man, whatever's going to get him up for the game. Yeah, a big healthy cough under the microphone

3:10and then hi, Jordan love. My name's Luke. Let you do it. Love. There's a little attacker when saying K variant. So we able to watch the game last night? I did watch it last night a little bit. Yeah, man, that first half. I don't know. I just don't know if the defense is going to be good enough that you like, they could go all the way to the Super Bowl or they could disappoint us and lose to the Packers, right? Isn't that the way? I mean, every game comes down to like the last play. Yeah, that would have been their seventh, seventh win in the final two minutes. That sort of terrifies me in the post season. It means you're not out of it. But like, I was saying one thing, I will say one thing to kind of tied into the Cubs here is that we cannot lose to the Green Bay Packers on Saturday because we can't have the Brewers and the Packers knocking out the Cubs and the Bears in like one kind of seasonal year. Like that would be horrible for Chicago. That'd be a tough, that'd be a tough rivalry for the I 94, the I 94 back and forth between Wisconsin and Illinois. We're not enjoy that for sure.

4:17My thing with the Bears is really quick is another number that I'm not really appreciating is over the last three or four weeks. It just feels like opponents are possessing the ball three times to one over the Bears. And if you're just limiting offensive opportunities on a team that is offensively led, I have no faith in this defense whatsoever, even if it is Ben, but don't break. Every time they have the ball, they have to do something. They have to draw, and they're putting themselves in positions at midfield to go for it on fourth down. It's not the best place to be in, especially in the playoffs. You want to possess the ball and be in control and the Bears have struggled to do that last three games. So in the next three years, do you guys feel better about the Cubs versus the Brewers or the Bears versus the Packers? It's a quick, it's a loaded question only because we don't know what the Cubs are going to look like come opening day as of right now. I do love the Bears future. I think what Caleb Williams and the offensive tools he has, and I believe they're going to attack, they're going to attack the defense in the offseason.

5:18I don't know, anyone's guys, right? Well, we did this topic, Justin, when you were out, Luke, of what can we learn from the 2025 Bears as it relates to the Cubs about doing business? So my answer to that question is I feel more confident about Bears Packers than I do about Cubs Brewers because the Bears feel like they're in a position right now where not only do they spend top dollar for Ben Johnson, they spend top dollar for Dennis Allen. They have, in theory, you know, who knows when the new stadium happens, but there is that carrot out there that incentivizes them to be as good as possible in the NFL. And this is the Bears time to go for it. Here on this CHGO Cubs show, we also think now is the time for the Cubs to go for it, but it is yet to be seen whether the front office and the guys are in charge signing the checks and the contracts, also feel that way as well. So I have more confidence right now in the Bears saying we are going to spend a little extra or maybe spend that draft capital to get Max Crosby. Do whatever it takes,

6:22where, you know, Luke, man, I'm, you know, this isn't the rock bottom of the offseason, but I'm getting kind of towards that place where you've got baseball media guys making fun of the Cubs and rickets again. They haven't made a move or just sitting there and waiting and it's, it's just kind of getting to that low point in the offseason where we really need the Cubs to hopefully step up and make some kind of move. Yeah, I would feel more confident in the Bears over the Packers the next three years than I would in the Cubs over the Brewers. And I think the thing we can learn from the Bears season is they fixed finally, they fixed what was the obvious missing link to this team, three offensive lineman up front. It took him forever to get to that point. It took Ryan Poles what seemed like an eternity to fix it. But when the offseason came and he knew they were close, he basically fixed the offensive line with money and also, you know, anything, any resource

7:26he needed to get it done. So now the Cubs need to get it done. What is missing? We know they're missing a starter and we know they're missing a bat. Will the Cubs take that seriously or we try and just kind of patch the holes a little bit like the Bears did for a few years. That's what I would say the differences and that's where I can see that the Cubs should learn from what the Bears are doing. Also, I don't think there's any doubt in its different sports, but Ben Johnson has had a bigger impact on his team than Craig Council has early in his time for having the track record that he did. And on the opposite side, Johnson having never been a coach before, I would say Johnson has had a bigger impact on his team by far than Council has had on the Cubs. That doesn't mean Council has done a terrible job. It's just and it might not be apples to apples, but Ben Johnson made a much bigger difference. Yeah. And honestly, both owners actually did pay top dollar for their guys, right? I mean, the Bears did pay top dollar for Ben Johnson. Don't forget, you know, Tom Rick is this been top dollar for Craig Council record setting contract for a manager, I believe,

8:29right? So they got the guy they got the guys they wanted. As both you guys, this, you know, everyone kind of make a fun of the whole checked in on talking to, you know, the Cubs have been linked to Cody Belinger, Alex Bregman, Boba Shet, and I'm thinking missing one guy. Oh, a Bregman, Boba Shet, not Kyle Tucker, Cody Belinger. Oh, my God. Anyways, my point is this. For us, the E. Hanoes for us, maybe Sky. Well, yeah, whoever, a bunch of a bunch of big name, a bunch of big name free agents. My question is, is that all smoking mirrors? Are they walking away with nobody? Or they do have this money, earmarked for a big time free agent? And we just don't know who it is yet. And we're all getting impatient, but there is a big move to be made. Is it smoking mirrors? Or is it going to happen? We just don't know. Good question. I mean, for me personally, like, checking in on Belinger, Joey, how about that? Like, first of all, just the checking in. What, what does that even mean?

9:32Checking in. You guys checked in with a live a few times, but that's, is that checking in? Well, yeah, they still have his number. It's the holiday season. Probably just wish to marry Christmas, man. Like, I, like, I get it. And it's part of one of the main topics today, because it's a newer piece of news, right? So we're going to cover it. We're going to discuss it. And then we can decide whether we think that there's interest so we can decide whether to dismiss it. I'm fairly dismissive of this, this linking of the Cubs back to Cody Belinger. Personally, if you're telling me right now that the Chicago Cubs had Cody Belinger on a three or 80 million dollar deal, traded for Kyle Tucker, opted to then trade Cody Belinger, and exchange that whole thing out with Cam Smith. And now they're going to bring back Cody Belinger. That's just seems like a false thought process. That seems like you're changing the way that you think about how you wanted to build this team only 12 months later. It feels knee jerk reactionary. I just, it doesn't make any sense to me at all, Luke. I don't know. Do you think Cody Belinger

10:36is any shadow coming back to the Cubs? I don't, but like, I think he'll end up with the Yankees, because he had a good season there. And I think they're starting to realize they have to do something. I agree with you that if, if the Cubs were to somehow end up in the 24th hour of the 24th day and the 24th minute, if they somehow end up with Cody Belinger on a bargain deal again, does he make the Cubs at least better than they are today? Yes. The answer is yes. No question about it. If they end up with Cody Belinger as their big bat this off season, does it point to the Cubs? Obviously, did something wrong in the last three years? Yes. Yes. Obviously, there were some misplaced cards, and it would have to be owning up to that. I don't think it's happening of all of all the options of guys that come back. I bet you Belinger's the lowest on the list. Yeah. Because you'd be admitting like you just you just laid it out. All the

11:38moves you made, you'd be laying out that you made mistakes. And now you couldn't get the guy you wanted. So you're like, well, we can make an incremental improvement over what we have now, but is it better than what we had last year? I can't say that. And real quick, you'd be making an admission about the money thing, right? Like we always go back and forth with, you know, we, you know, we, Cubs don't spend money, but they do spend $230 million. So those are the two sides of the fence, and then they have that conversation. If you're bringing Cody Belinger back in the mix, you didn't have to trade him probably in the first place. You did it to move the money around, which we all signed up for because we were getting Kyle Tucker made a lot of sense. Michael Bush took a step forward. Sayazzookie had 30 home runs and 100 RBI's that makes a lot of sense. But moving off of him and then bringing it back is a tacit admission that money had a lot to do with it. And to piggyback that, you know, a lot of people think that I make excuses for the front office in our chat here. And I explain, I don't. I miss, I'm more of the kind of guy that's like, I'll judge this team on opening their roster versus, you know, January six or fifth, whatever it is. But

12:42the Cody Belinger thing, I must have mad they traded Cody Belinger. I'm mad they didn't do anything with the money they got from the trade because it clearly was a salary dump. And I will, I will, I will smash the Cubs in the fact that like, I was okay with the trade. Fine. You know, you got, you got Tucker awesome. And you want Michael Bush to be your first baseman? But like, you didn't do anything with that money to make our team better last year. And that I think put us behind the eight ball early on. You saw our bullpen was horrible early on in the year. I know, just fix it all on the way. So that is my one like black eye on the Cubs last year was kind of like, you can't, you can't lie to us by like making that trade. But it really was a salary dump. You didn't really spend that money elsewhere. So that's, that's where I met about the Cody Belinger thing last year. Now guys, this year, um, you know, between, uh, Belinger, uh, Berg, Bergman, Bishet, and let's just say, Cal Tucker, or nobody in Euras estimation here, what is more likely for the Cubs? Are those five options right there? I think, I think nobody out of those four,

13:45I'm hoping is the least likely because to rope back around to this bears conversation that we're having, Luke is like, when you talk about those interior offensive linemen, previous iteration before Ben Johnson, before, but BBJ before Ben Johnson was what Coleman Shelton, uh, who was the guy Patrick Lucas, uh, Nate, Nate Davis, right? Like they were moves. Yeah, they were valuation moves were polls thought he was outsmarting the room by getting someone on the cheap and plugging in there to a really, really important position. And we're sitting here on this show saying that the bit, the Cubs need to replace Kyle Tucker, really important part of the team, a 92 win team last year and they need to add a starting picture. And I want them to go out and try and drew Dolman this thing. I want them to go out and Joe Tune this thing, right? So one of those four guys, I think has to be the one. I'm so maintaining that I think Alex Breggman is the guy because he just makes the most sense with the dollars, the years, the interest. He's not going to cost

14:49as much as probably a Kyle Tucker oboe, but shit, he's a little bit older than Alex Breggman, but again, he's probably maybe a little bit more, maybe a higher floor, just a touch, even though Bushette's ceiling is probably a little bit higher. And Belinger, I just sort of think like been there done that. So of all those guys, that's kind of where I'm landing on this. I think Breggman number one for you. I think Breggman is the most likely rational scenario for the Chicago Cubs impact bat wise as it stands today. Jump in the chat. What do you think? Who should the Cubs sign? And who do you think the Cubs need to sign or maybe more rationally? Who do you think the Cubs end up signing? We're going to take a break here on the CHO Cubs podcast. Luke Suckmire is back. Ladies and gentlemen, so don't go anywhere. We're going to hear some words from our wonderful partners. Today's episode is presented by Toyota and let's take a break right now. Hey Cubs fans, whatever the moment, it's never over at that 365 right now. New customers get $200 in bonus bets. When you bet $5 winner lose, they also have the football early payout offer with a wild card weekend right around the corner. You can pick any team, but I recommend the bears.

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16:53cooling, plumbing, electric and generator needs. No extra charge for nights, weekends or holidays. Save up to four grand on furnaces and comfort systems with four seasons heating air conditioning plumbing and electric. Furnaces start at 39 bucks a month. Furnace AC combos at $57 a month. And if you call today, you can save 50 bucks from your trusted local experts. Four seasons heating air conditioning, plumbing and electric has been serving our area in Chicago for more than 50 years. We are sponsored here at CHGO by four seasons visit four seasons heating cooling.com for all their special offers and money saving coupons. That's four seasons heating cooling.com don't get left out in the cold. Coming back here on the CHGO Cubs podcast presumed by Toyota. Let's go places great to see everybody in the chat here. Let's do a quick Toyota super chat with Craig Brindle. If you go up just a little bit, Sean, you'll see trade chart and sign Breggman. Good to see you man. Good to see you staying solid. Good to see you staying consistent there.

17:56Craig, I will say I'm not saying we're not going to sign Breggman. I see a situation when we sign Alex Breggman. I don't think Shaw is getting traded. I think if we sign Breggman, I personally think Niko Horner is the one that gets traded and not Matt Shaw. There's my hot take. Yeah, Luke, I don't want it. I'm not saying I'm advocating for it. I'm saying I think they keep Shaw and you trade Horner at that point if you're signing Breggman. Yeah, Luke, what is the, you know, we're getting words about maybe trade talks heating up with John Heyman had a big weekend. Luke. I said very sarcastically. He was doing the Lord's work. parentheses, Boris's work for him this weekend. Trying to heat up the market and accelerate it for a lot of guys that are clients of his. They're on the Yankees name in there, which the Yankees and Cubs have seen be kind of pitted against each other in terms of just interest in players. Do you see and the question also of which one is most likely least likely feel free to answer that too as well. But again, Belinger, Bashet, Tucker,

18:57Tucker, Breggman, which one do you think is off the board first? All their markets have seemed to come down to slow down to a bit of a crawl. You're hearing nothing about Kyle Tucker right now. Nothing, which is crazy. There's nothing going on about Kyle Tucker. If Tucker's the last one on the board, he'll end up with the Dodgers. That's my prediction. If it if it unfolds that way and he's the last one on the board and everybody spent their money and they're looking at it saying, I don't know, I'm not sure which guy is the Dodgers will be the team that'll give him some insane amount of money for one season. And they'll roll the dice and come back again and he'll chase a ring with the Dodgers. That's what'll happen. I think with Tucker, if it goes away. And by the way, I shouldn't say the Cubs have only done Hunter Harvey while I've been out because let's not forget Tyler Austin. Oh, and and think about how excited listen, Cubs convention is what? Like 10 days away, something like that are 11 last two weeks, 11 days away. If they come out and alphabetically

20:02introduce him as the first player and they're like, this is off season. We had a Tyler Austin. That's a disservice to him. It's it's nothing he's done wrong. It won't be fair, right? Unless they fans know that something else is coming down the line. They will just be there will be an angry fan base if that's what happens if we get to that point in 11 days. So do I think the Cubs get something done before Cubs convention? I do. I think they would love to time it out to do it literally the day Cubs convention starts. They're not going to wait. They're not going to do that on purpose. But if it gets close and they're like within a couple hours, they will hold that information as long as they can. Follow up to that. Do you follow up to that really quick? Do you think that said player would be in Chicago? They would do everything possible to make that player available. Yeah. Even if it's a trade. Now that's I don't think it's Tucker. I don't think it's Belinger. I think the most likely edition

21:06bat wise is still pregnant. But you have real competition eventually when it comes down to it from the Red Sox. They still really want them. And the Cubs do have a cheaper option if they want to go that way. So I still think the most likely option is they don't add a bat of significance. Not one of these four guys that we were taught. Not Belinger, not Tucker, not pregnant, not the shit. I think the most likely possibility is the Cubs add none of them. And they're just waiting to see if some bargain falls to them. I'll have Belinger 2.0 happen the first time. I don't know about Belinger 3.0, but 2.0 was not as good as 1.0. All right. Justin, they got themselves in a really interesting scenario too. We're like, let's just say they continue to push the trade market. And I know we keep bringing up his name, but they have to be pretty careful that if they do want to land front of the rotation starter, and whether it's Edward Cabrera or McKenzie Gore or whatever the name

22:06is, if match shot is in that deal, that then changes the price of what Alex Breggman will be. Right. Because all the sudden people look around to the Cubs and say, well, you don't have a third basement. Do you? Yeah. It's like almost like the chicken of the egg will come first, right? If you sign Breggman first, maybe your negotiation leverage lessons a little bit. I'm a trade market. But if you trade someone like Nico or Shaw first, now leverage on the free agency with Alex Breggman, you know what I'm saying? It's kind of like there's leverage on both sides. They're going to play here. I said it before I'll say it again. I know the optics are really, really, really bad. I don't care personally about Cubs Convention being a deadline for this front office. I want the best player at the best price at the best budget for this team by opening day. I know the optics are bad, but again, I don't want to jump the gun or drag things out just because of this like false Cubs Convention deadline. Am I wrong for that? No, I don't think you are. I think

23:06part of it though is I think that's a consideration with the Cubs just from a PR perspective, right? And and and Luke, I you know, I know you were saying it tongue in cheek, but like there's nothing you there's some truth in that of like Tyler Austin is also calling the Cubs being like, all right, so I'm not the headliner of this thing, right? I'm just triple checking here. I know I want a lot of shine and I'm happy to come back to the major leagues, but I'm not like the big signing. Am I? And it just changes a little bit of the tenor. And I would like to believe that the Chicago Cubs would want Cubs fans at the convention to be excited. I know that the 2016 reunion is going to put a lot of gloss over the inactivity of what's happening right now. And for those of you that also aren't familiar, I believe Bruce divine over the weekend did report. It makes a lot of sense that any current player or active player in major league baseball that is a former club will not be there out of respect, obviously, for the current clubs that they're with. So Kyle Schorber,

24:08knock him off the list, hobby bias, knock him off the list, Chris Bryant. Also, I know surprising still, in major league baseball, knock him off the list too as well. That kind of sucks though, because those are three very important pieces to the 26. I know you can't like push it back, but it does kind of suck to have a 2016 reunion, but you can't have Havi, KB or Schorber. It feels almost like empty to me. Yeah, but it's realistic. The difference between some of the other ones like when the White Sacks did it, these players were so much younger. The Cubs wanted with like a bunch of rookies first year. They're all still in the game. It's only 10 years. Some of them aren't driving like they were, but Chris Bryant can't with that contract in Colorado and not playing show up at Cubs conventionally on another franchise. I mean, Kyle Schorber can't sign his deal and then show up and be like, hey, I'm here. All right, about 10. Here's a funny question though. And I love Chris Bryant for what he did for my team, right? For what he did

25:09for the Cubs, but they hate him in Colorado. Could it get any worse if he did come on stage and we all just go crazy for him. Yes, it could. If he was showing up celebrating with another team before he went to spring training with the other team, he can't show up to spring training with the Rockies and be like, I just came from Cubs convention. That was, that report was factual that Bruce put out, but I think it was, I don't know how it's surprising to anybody. Like, of course, they can't show up for that. No matter how much they want to. Yeah, best time of my life. Kyle Schorber just signs $150 million dollar deal of fillings and he's like, Oh, that was the greatest time of my life forever. Luke, a couple minutes before we go to break here on the other side of the break, we are going to talk some pitching stick around. Chris will also going to have our lovely segment coming back in 2026 for the first time, a stuck with me Joey crystal ball and a just in time. Want to just round out the hitting really quick. I feel like we've hit everybody,

26:12except for one dude that I want to get your take on as things develop. When we say, are they going to sign any of these guys? Or are they going to sign none of these guys? Is it also time for Cubs fans to at least begin the rationalization of an AU Henio Suarez? AU Henio Suarez, a little bit older, high K rate, 49 homeruns last year. I don't know, I wouldn't count on him for 49 homeruns again this coming season, but again, buys you time with Matt Shaw. He can play a little third once or twice, you know, once or twice a month or whatever it is, whatever kind of blow you want to give him, can do a little DH to kind of give an alleviation to Mo baller if you want to kind of ease him in a little bit. AU Henio Suarez would be short term. AU Henio Suarez would probably cost about 18 million AU Henio Suarez. Fits the Cubs. Mold a little bit, Luke, before we go to break, where would you land on that? Would that really, would that get you jazzed up? Would that really pump you up?

27:16What? It wouldn't get me jazzed up, but at least it'd be improvement over what they have now. You know what I mean? Like would it make them a better team than what they are right now? Yes, would I prefer Bichette or Braggman? Yes, I would, but we all know the fans aren't the ones holding the purse strings here. We're not, we're not calling the shots with the money. So if that's the way the Cubs are going, I don't think he's unrealistic. I think you could end up with a Suarez and a trade for name the pitcher, right? And I know we're getting on that. I don't know. I think if you're going to, if you're going to make a trade now for that front line pitcher or even number three starter, we, just in touch on this, I think you have to wait out the third base picture. You've, you've got to figure out if Braggman's going to be your third baseman, if Shaw's going to be your third baseman or if Bichette's going to be your second baseman. I think you need to figure out

28:16which of those scenarios is actually going to happen before you make that trade. I agree, because also if you're signing Suarez, you're not trading Shaw. If you sign Braggman long-term, you might be more apt to trade someone like Matt Shaw. But I agree, you've got to fill that third base hole first before you enter the conversations of trading for a pitcher. Yeah, he's the little, literal version of a stopgap. And in your scenario, Luke, with the signed AU and Suarez and trade for a pitcher, that probably puts the Cubs back in the position they were in last year, just in where they're like 15, 16, 17 million under the luxury tax instead of pushing right up on it. Speaking of pushing up on it, we got to go to a break here. We're going to hear for some of our wonderful sponsors on the other side. We're talking pitching. We're talking more cups baseball with Luke Stuck, Meyer, Justin Roman in the house. Do not go anywhere. It's the C.H.O. Cubs podcast was done by Toyota. We're going to take a break and be right back. Hey, Cubs fans, I want to talk to you about Game Day men's health. Now, I don't know if you know this, but a couple days ago, I just turned 42 years old, which means it's that time for me to

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31:22Stuckmeyer. Let's get a Toyota Super Chat in here from Evan Cordy eight five seven one. We'd love to sign Breggman or Bashet and then trade shot in a package for pitching. Nico is so steady and consistent. I'm on board. I'm on board. But he's got one year left. You know, Nico Horner. I like what you're saying. I love Nico Horner. But he's got one year left. So you're talking about been extending him as well. We don't know what his price is or again, Shaw is on that rookie deal for years and years and years. It's it's got to think of all that stuff. Yeah, no decisions to a major. What's more valuable to another team? Nico Horner or Matt Shaw. Matt saw right. I get when which team you're trading them to like if you're trading into a team that's thinking about three years from now, Matt Shaw is the more valuable player. If you're talking about the Yankees, then Nico Horner is more valuable. And you know, Seattle. Yeah, it's funny. You said the Yankees because Jim Bowden and MLB Radio said that the Yankees

32:22are looking hard at Nico Horner. So take it for what it's worth. I know that guy's been wrong before, but you know, we're all just kind of guessing and and and connecting the dots right now. But you know, Nico's name has been in trademars for now two seasons in a row. And you know, he's is an impending free agent. I mean, it makes sense for someone like the Yankees, you're right. But we'll see. We got to sign the third basement first. Otherwise, they're both staying. Yeah, Luke, I said it on the show last week that it's just like the thing that would really bum me out is because of a free agent signing or because of a particular trade, it means we then have to move Nico Horner's money off the books, not the player. His money would have to come off the books. And I said, it's be like, tell him the new family. We just bought a new car, but now we have to get rid of the dog. It's like, all right, we don't we can have we can have both things at the same time and still try and survive. I want to move over the pitching side with you, Luke. We've we did a lot of the two of you on my here on the show. And he decided to make his choice to take his talents to Houston, three year deal, $54 million guaranteed up to $63 million. A lot of escalators

33:28and incentives there, $10 million posting fee. And also he's able to opt out after one year. I'm going to keep this broad and open for you. I just want to get your take. We haven't heard your thoughts on on the MI signing with Houston and and did the Cubs get it right or get it wrong by not coming correct and and trying to outbid the Houston Astros for his services. Well, the first thing I want to know is if it's true that the Cubs were second in line here, then can then how can the arguments be true that they weren't they weren't really sure they were skeptical that it would play at the major league level? Like, which is really true? Were they interested or not? Like, it doesn't it doesn't matter if it's 80 million or a one year or an opt out, either you like this guy in your near the top of your rotation. It's not like we're saying, oh, they were going to give him a five year deal and roll the dice on the guy for a year. That's a totally different story. Like, either they were interested in this guy that was going to get this deal or they weren't just because they didn't get them doesn't mean they weren't interested. And

34:31so I'd also like to congratulate Sean and the White Sox Chicago being the best check-in team this offseason. We've been great at it in Chicago. We've been checking in on everybody. We both checked in on the MI, both fan base to thought they were getting in my, we didn't get in my. Okay, if we all want to believe it's a good thing now because it won't translate wonderful. If it does, we're all going to sit here and go, what are we doing? Yeah, it's, he goes to Houston and replaced his founder, Valdez. We're going to be angry if he turns out to be the next real deal coming from Japan and a pitching staff. If he goes out there and he's just some guy, then we'll all say thank goodness. I can't be mad about it yet. I'm just disappointed that it hasn't happened yet. But if they end up with Mackenzie Gore or whoever, Mackenzie Gore is really high on my list now. I don't think, you know, all the talk with Cabrera and the Yankees,

35:37it scares me because of the arm stuff. Like he's super talented and I love that he's right handed and I love that he's got the best stuff maybe in the group. You don't have that many impingement times where you're taking out shoulder or elbow impingement and you're saying, I can't pitch. That doesn't go away. And so that part of it scares me. So I don't know what to make of not getting a my. I believe that the Cubs probably were in on it. And when they didn't get them, then the things were leaked like, we weren't that in on it. I don't know if we really believed in that. I think they're in on them. I think all along it was the opt out after one year. I think that the Cubs did not want to do that and Houston was willing to do that because, you know, there's a comment maybe a little higher up where it says, you know, other MLB teams also passed on him with that contract. And the contract definitely seemed like it was beatable. I think it was that opt out in the first year. You're paying the posting fee and then he just bounces, right? I think that Cubs

36:38didn't want him, but at least for two years. But regardless we didn't get them. Can't cry over spilled milk. My question you and I Luke is, okay, of Valdez, Suarez, Galen. And then let's throw in Cabrera and Gore, most likely pitcher that will be in the Cubs rotation or none of the above. No, I think one of men's up with the Cubs. I think the trade things becoming more and more likely than even the signing the bat thing because the signing the bat thing, we know they're not in the huge contracts and nobody's carrying like this massive contract financially or years that you're looking at for the others. And they are going to have to finally trade some prospects eventually. But the question we need to answer is what are these we want to know what are these teams asking for? Like realistically, what is more likely to happen based on what the other teams

37:38are asking for and what the Cubs are willing to do? Are the Cubs willing to move some prospects? Yes. Are they willing to maybe move an infielder? Well, they certainly haven't told teams know about Nico if all these teams are asking about Nico because of the one year thing. But he's also like the heart and soul of what they do, right? Like there's a way to improve what he does at second base and that is having more power there. But everything else is everything you want in the guy. He's everything you want in a Cubs baseball player. So while they're listening, I don't know that they're super anxious to trade Nico. And the interesting thing about not wanting in my and then thinking about the opt out thing is I can see that both ways. I hear what you're saying, Justin, like they don't want to pay the posting fee money, right? And then see him leave after one year. At the same time, I could also see upper management in front office

38:42and ownership saying, well, yeah, but if we have a workshop and he leaves after one year, isn't that what we're trying to do basically clear the deck? So I don't know. I don't know where it stands. If you're asking me which one I would want right now, I would say McKenzie Gore. If I was going to roll the dice on one of those guys, I would say McKenzie Gore. But I don't know if his asking price is more than Cabrera. I don't know of that. I believe McKenzie Gore will bounce back. I think having McKenzie Gore would be a good thing. Now, would I be willing to trade matchoff form? Yes. It just depends on what else you would have to trade for him. Yeah, can you try and move him off of does it have to be Shaw and Wiggins? I guess that's probably where what we're coming around to, right? Because you believe in Wiggins. If you believe Wiggins is going to be at least as good as McKenzie Gore was last year, why would you trade Wiggins right now?

39:48No, exactly. They're certainly going to want pitching back, but I'd be more willing to give them pitching lower down like high end guys in lower levels, right? Like really highly thought of prospects. I'd rather give them two of those and let them double their chances than I would Wiggins. If Wiggins really is Kate Horton next year, but I think that's, I think that's the rub. Luke is that chef Kevin Penner. I'm in agreement. There are almost out of prospects that have any value. We keep going over the same names all the time in the system. It's KC Robola. Wiggins, Shaw, Jefferson, Rojas. Kind of it, right? Like Brandon Bertsell as a shoulder injury. Maybe he's something. Maybe he's a guy. You could throw maybe Ethan Conrad out there. You can talk about a Christian Hernandez. If you want to Jonathan Long, I think he's a foray player, right? They don't have a lot of depth in their system. And I think that's the rub Justin of it. It's like, I think they're a little resistant to trade these prospects. And I think they're hugging them a little too hard.

40:50It's because after that, their 20th ranked farm system probably goes into the higher 20s. Maybe even to the bottom of the league. And that's the problem that the Cubs have. It's like, I get it. The owner doesn't want to spend any money. The people that he has employed. And this is a criticism of Jed, the general manager that he just extended is overseeing a farm system right now that is lacking in depth. They're doing a good job at the top of the draft. Their first strong guys are graduating. The guys when they traded the cubby core, a couple of them have cracked through, not Caleb Killian, right? But Peter Armstrong, yes. So they're able to go out and they canvass. So guys that they want from other systems and bring them in. But outside of that first round out of those high picks, like a Horton in a match, none of these other guys are really developing the way that I think that they would like to per the amount of money that they want to spend, which is why I just keep sitting here. And it's not just the Cubs fan thing of me sitting on a cow cheating potato chips being like, right and money. It's because I think it's the only,

41:52I think it's the only course for them to get better at this time right now. If they want to, if they want to pillage those top four or five guys that we all know the names of go for it, right? Go for it. But then that's it. Then you're kind of done, right? And they're in a cycle right now when they should be competing. And it's so funny. My final point on this is we're in the same situation, Justin, where we did shows around the trade deadline. And we would ask ourselves a very fair sports narrative question of what are the guys in the locker room think when a front office does nothing for you at the deadline when you're going for a division and possibly going for a pennant and they don't add in any reinforcements. What does that say to a locker room? Does it say that the front office believes in you? Does it say that the front office thinks that you're close? We're going to go one step ahead. The inactivity of this offseason continues that storyline of does this front office think that they are really that close to breaking through as we think because if they do believe that then they should be adding reinforcements to

42:55this group that is already really solid. This ultra defensive team with a bunch of guys that are rock solid, but none of them are superstar players. They should be adding to that right now just like they did at the deadline and they're struggling to do that again. Yeah, I mean, all I can tell you Joey is that there's still time. There is still a lot of time actually. I mean, we've spent our time talking about like four major bats and three pitchers from the fridge market and two more on the trading market that make your team better. There's still people out there to make this team even better than they were last year. So all I can say, I feel your passion. I understand all along I said they were going to make one for age and signing and make one trade and I still really believe it's going to happen. I mean, there's still possibilities of both those things happening. It's just kind of a game of musical chairs right now. Like, where, you know, who do we get on the heading side? Who do we get on? But I think both areas are going to be addressed. Yeah, I hope so, Luke. I really do. And in the meantime, and maybe we can blame the structure of an MLB offseason.

43:59I think it's fair to as well because a lot of this stuff keeps getting dragged out every single year. But at the same time, Luke, like Cubs fans have to sit there while guys like Ken Rosenthal weekend and other baseball media guys that I personally have respect enough because they've been in the business long and long enough take shots at our organization, right? It's not just Cubs fans now making pointed little jabs at the lack of spending or at least the lack perceived notion of we are the Chicago Cubs. And we have a marquee network and we have this jumbo tron that was supposed to pay for everything. And we've got these patches on our jerseys now that was supposed to pay for everything. We own a neighborhood that was supposed to pay for everything. And now we're not paying on anything. And we have a manager that makes more than anyone, right? Like you have all of those things going on. I think there are I think there are skeptics in the media and I think for good reason. I think you sort of earn your reputation, right? Like that's that's just the truth of it. There

44:59might be somebody that has an axe to grind for whatever reason, whether that's the front office or management, whatever it might be. I think those people do exist. But when it's this many saying why aren't the Cubs spending, I think it's a I think it's a fair conversation like you you've earned some of it. There's no question about that. And as far as the trade thing goes like what what happened to the point where Jed was like we got to the trade deadline and we realized we should have done this in the offseason because the price was just too much. That led me to believe that their strategy was get these deals done. And so we're still sitting here waiting. And I agree Justin, like the Cubs could quite a lot of people by getting a lot of things done. Could they quiet the most people by signing Tucker or some big deal? Yes. And I don't think it's happening for a multitude of reasons. But the Cubs could still have a successful offseason and it really is

46:07part of it is at least major league baseball has screwed up this system. Like I don't want it coming down this close to spring training. I don't want guys making their decision to try and decide if they're going to be in Florida or or in Arizona days before they go there or even after the teams have gone. Like give us something. I don't want to wait this long to know who my team is. I want to be excited about my team so that when the holidays just rolled around, I can go buy the new jersey if I want to go buy the new jersey. They're missing out on all those opportunities. Yeah, Luke, like that's that's what I was saying. Right. We had a little side conversation before the new year. That's exactly my point. I hate MLB for agency. I really, really do. I think football has got it better. I think basketball has a better there's a window there. And I think that this you're just dragging this thing out. And again, you're creating false deadlines, invisible deadlines for the Cubs convention because we don't want our fans to be mad. It's like, well, they realistically could wait, wait, wait, and sign Bregman, you know, we before spring training and you still got Bregman.

47:09But I hate the fact that you can do that. I think that there should be a window. I also hate the fact that we talked about Bregman last offseason. And he signs a quote unquote for your deal. Nope, just kidding. I'm going to opt out and do it all over again this year. I think that MLB, I love baseball and I love a major league baseball. But I think the free agency process is flawed. And I do hope they can fix that without going on strike. That's my hope, obviously. But I think they have to fix it because I agree with you. I think I think free agency and baseball is a flawed system. Both sides compelling cases. They did they did do the Tucker deal last year before Cubs convention. That was done. He was at Cubs convention, even though, but this is not the, you know, some people are saying like, excuse me. This is the first year. It's not. This is like year six or seven where we see this winter meetings mean almost nothing to most of the teams. It's just like they go there and hang out somewhere warm, have a couple of drinks and meals together, and then we wait for two more months, right? Yeah, yeah, that was that was kind of my my I was

48:12grousing about it last week of just, you know, I I wish and you mentioned a little bit before in this episode of just if I had my way as a Cubs fan, I just wish that there was a little bit more intention and a little bit more conviction with some of this stuff of like when you said like, well, we're interested in a lot of guys like why don't you just go out and get the guy that you personally think is going to fit best either in your clubhouse or in your lineup or in your pitch lab or the guy that you think is going to extract the most wins for you. Just go out and get your Chicago Cubs. Just go out and make it happen. And it's a complicated argument in terms of the signing thing personally, because I think both sides have interesting arguments about it. Unfortunately, if you do guys, if you do want guys to sign earlier, that means salary cap. The reason why there's an NFL and NBA flurry of free agency when the bell rings is because these guys are more or less sort of capped in probably what they can get. Now the NFL is different in terms of guarantees. That's how you get competitive in a deal. You offer more guarantees than another team, but in the NBA, all this stuff is slotted in, right? And frankly, like these owners drag their

49:15feet and we can throw out the C word, like collusion of the longer we wait. I think the better deal we get where a guy ends up just signing an AAV deal, AAV high end deal. And then yeah, he opts out, right? Because he said, I think he's kind of pissed about the process. And the other part about it too is that I think the Cubs are gaining a reputation of, yeah, we're interested, but come back when you're desperate. And unfortunately, that's kind of the position that Cody Bellinger found himself in. Now, when I say desperate, he made $27 million. I wish I was, you know what I mean? We're talking sports here a little bit, but if you're Alex Bregman and you were, you went down a certain road with the Cubs last year and you start wrapping your head around, man, maybe this is where I'm going to live. Maybe this is where my family's going to be. The Cubs really want me. And it drags out, drags out, doesn't work out. You take a different deal. You opt out and now you're talking to the Cubs again. At some point, there's a human element of like, guys, like, what are we doing? I know this is business, but do you want me or do you not want me? And the Cubs seem very, very

50:18content dragging it out as long as possible and grinding a player down to get at the price that they want. And I applaud them from an on paper perspective. But from a human baseball perspective, I can imagine that maybe being a little grading at times. I have a question for you guys and it just kind of popped into my head. I never really thought about it before. If there were a salary cap and a salary floor coming and that was going to happen in two years, would Jed Hoyer be a better president slash, let's still call him General Andrew, if you want. Would he be, would he be better at this with a salary cap, salary floor, or would he be better at this in the current format Major League Baseball has? Like, which actually would benefit Jed Hoyer in the job that he's doing? Would he be better at it in the new rules or is he, is he going to be a better job at that in the current rules? He would be better at it with a salary cap because then teams wouldn't be able to spend a certain

51:25amount than they would be capped if they did spend on an Otani. So then that way this kind of flesh wound that is not signing a star and consistently letting Belinger Tuckers go out the door. I think it would be able to be able to satiate that need for a star a little bit easier. You could maybe also make that argument that maybe he could sell more on the intangibles of the IV. And for real though, you could sell more of all the, of all money is equal. We do it better here than everyone else with all the little stuff. We take care of your family. We provide certain, you know, a lot of these players care about like the doctor, the picks up the phone at 1 a.m. and the team helps them out if their little kid is sick and stuff like that. And NFL, that really comes down to it sometimes when it's really just a dollar for dollar match. What is the fit geography wise, vibe wise, locker room culture, all that stuff starts to play a little bit more of a role than money. Yeah. And I think that I think that I think that Judd is actually, you know, I make it crucified for this. But I think Judd is actually pretty good at his job when

52:27it comes to like, you know, finding identifying deals. I think it's pretty good at trades. I think having a salary cap and a salary floor, now you have parameters which, which you're to operate in. I think he would thrive in that situation. But Luke, I think that for me, salary cap, yeah, but salary floor is the key word here. I think you put in a salary floor in baseball for agency. And it's so much better all across the board. I think if you're forcing the pirates and the rays and those guys to spend money, there's more money to go around. I think it's a healthier baseball offseason. I think, listen, they got to change a lot of things. But salary floor for me is one of the highest priorities. I think that baseball needs to implement because that will fix a lot of these problems. I hear what Sean saying and I hear what you're saying. I can't decide which Judd would be better at the salary cap world or the current world in major league baseball because I think current world is already he's already sort of operating in some sort of salary cap world. At least we believe so. But you know, who's really shown when it comes down to,

53:32all right, everybody's going to be spending about the same amount of money. The brewers have shown that they're elite at that. Elite at it. Like better than the Cubs. The brewers spend way less and are still better than the Cubs. So while I agree, I could see a world where Judd is better in a new format than he is in the current format. I can also see why a team like the brewers would be like, yeah, but we've already been doing this. And as long as we spend above the floor, who's going to be better to do it than us? That's that's the one thing that scares me. There are teams. Yes, it levels the playing field for you with teams like the blue jays, the mets, and the Dodgers. But it also increases the chances of those lower teams if they have if are already over that floor, the ones that really know how to work the system. I would think they have an advantage too, no? So my pitch for current system over salary cap is first of all salary

54:36cap. I don't want it because frankly, the owner will every year just go darn it. We ran out of money. We wish we could. We totally would. I promise you we would, but we can't because the rules, all the rules, the written down, they're right here. They're on the wall. The thing about the thing with Judd is one, the thing that worries me about salary cap. And this is where we have a slight disagreement is I think that means more years for players, where you're going to have to spread money out. Personally, I think of you're the Chicago Cubs. I think you should be in the business of high AAV. And if you want to have short term deals, if you want to get creative with the show to type contract, the Chicago Cubs can do that. I think that Judd Hoyer thinks about things in three to four year cycles, which is why I'm so mad about this one off season because I think this is year three of a four year cycle of having a group, a core of players together to try and go for it and do something. It was 83, 83, 92. Let's see what happens in this fourth year, right? And I think he's gotten good at finding the valuation of flipping guys and rehabbing guys. If you have a salary cap, in my opinion, AAV goes down years go up. So I think the 10 year contract comes

55:43back. I think the six, seven year deal for a pitcher comes back because you can only give him so much money that can slot into a team every single year. At one way or the other, I think I think the salary cap does eventually screw the players. But in some way, they still are going to have to get paid. It's a great argument. I don't even know if I fully believe I don't have the full conviction of what I'm saying right now because I think it's really complicated, right? But I would think that if if Judd and look, I texted you guys a real sicko text this weekend about how the Cubs could go over the luxury taxes here and fly right under it next year and sign guys that we're talking about right now that Cubs fans wouldn't even believe. But I do think that flexibility that they've gotten good at some of this lower mid-tier stuff. And with the high floor, I'm with you. I wish the pirates would spend more, but you are then giving money to lesser players. And there's a weird bubble that it starts to create sort of like in the middle where you're starting to say, well, this guy has a five point whatever ERA, but he's making this amount. It gets a little

56:46complicated in that, but it's a good, it's a good question to think about for sure. Yeah, are we going to save our, yeah, New Year's Eve stuck with me? Do we want to save that for tomorrow? How long can you still do New Year's stuff? You know the Larry thing? How long can you still wish somebody happy New Year's? I didn't know if I was supposed to do that. I like what you just brought to the table. So I think we should save it to tomorrow. I left the house today and my wife, Mara, was taking down the Christmas tree. No, no, no, no. Today was the day. Is your real? Is your real? Are you a real tree? No, it's a fake. She's allergic to pine. Oh, man, I don't know. That seems early. I don't have, I can't do it. Took it down yesterday. What? Wow. Why do you guys? Hey, Christmas. Like, what is this? I didn't do it. I will go. I'll tell you what, like honestly, in the Roman household, we're talking about probably it'll be down first week of February. No, we're all January. Listen,

57:52my wife goes crazy for Christmas. And that means bins on bins on bins. I said, listen, I'm down, but we're keeping this up. This Christmas spirit is going to be up to January because it's a lot of work. I'm not doing it for a couple of weeks. So if you guys want some Christmas cheer, come to the Roman household. It'll still be up in January, but February is done. Happy St. Patrick's Day and Christmas. Still from the Roman household. It's the, it's the Clark Griswald meltdown after the squirrel goes out the door and snott the dog jumps out and he has the total meltdown about the boss. That's how I feel. We're going to have the happy, happy. Oh, real quick. Before we go, we got to go in like one or two minutes, but before we go, Luke, you got to weigh in on the Christmas draft. Highly controversial around here. Do you remember the Christmas draft at all? Because Twitter is a weird twisted place. And I won the poll on Twitter, but Justin also had Jesus

58:52and Santa on his draft draft. Oh boy, that's a tough comment. Two rounds. My first two picks was Jesus and Santa. And then Twitter decides that my team wasn't strong enough. What's my name? Wait a minute. Did you guys end up labeling it the Christmas draft? Or did you label it the holiday draft? Now, well, we labeled it the Christmas draft. It's up on the screen right now. If you can see, well, if you're doing the Christmas draft, Jesus is pretty high on that list, you know, he's pretty much a locket number one. And then it put Santa Claus number two. Let me look at this. Now, this is a joys got Christmas tree, home alone, the Grinch cookies, WAM last Christmas. Yes, the Christmas song of the board. To be fair, though, I think Justin drafted Santa Claus the movie because somebody who ever produced it, who ever produced it, Sarah spelled it wrong. Santa Claus with an E. So this is the clause that makes you Santa. Santa. It was Santa Claus like the guy. The man. Yeah, okay. It's not your fault. It spelled wrong.

59:57I think Jared loses. I don't know if you can put cigars and smile on basically and make each other. Well, Santa's not putting Cubans in your stockings. Yeah, you're not blowing a stokey smoke at the kids while they're opening up. And Gary in the chat says not everyone celebrates Christmas, Justin. I understand, but it was the Christmas draft. I mean, like, I understand you may celebrate Hanukkah, but this was the Christmas draft. Jesus and Santa, that's a dynamic duo. Yeah, I can hear you still on the board. Joey, Joey apparently wins because he took the Christmas tree. Yeah, a song called Last Christmas. You mean the trees that everybody's taken out already? Yeah, well, I mean, I took the New York, uh, New York, the Times Square Christmas tree. I took a tiny tree. I took a big tree. I took a small, I took all the Christmas trees. The way you took all the leftovers, I took every Christmas tree on the planet. Pretty powerful. More powerful than Jesus. No, but I don't, I don't think of cinnamon,

1:00:59Justin's third pick was cinnamon rolls. I don't think of cinnamon rolls necessarily as a holiday thing, but they're one of the greatest things on the planet. So now he's got Jesus, Santa, and cinnamon rolls. He's hit my sweet tooth, too. Uh-huh. Uh, I mean, based on my holiday, the Vix Vapourub was a big pick. That's all I'm going to tell you. That was very, I don't, I would, I would lean towards Justin on this. That was a very savvy, and I understand what Gary's saying. That's why in years past, sometimes we've done the holiday draft. And so if you want to put Hanukkah in there with Christmas, or if you want to put New Year's Eve in there. Right. But this was the Christmas draft fund. I was working within the parameters. I was working within the parameters of the Christmas draft, kind of like how your hypothetical with Jed working in the parameters of, you know, uh, salary cabin, salary floor. I was in my zone right there. I, I would put a first year head coach Justin Roman as the champion, I think. I'm sorry.

1:02:01You know, now that's the cough. That's the, that's the meds talking. That's what I think's happening. That's the best thing we got. I would week myself as the winner, really, because it's a holiday. I went through. I deserve some sort of win. Well, we got to get out of here on the C.H.O. Cup's podcast, presented by Toyota. Let's go places, Joker, stop, let's just rent头 Roman, shoutout producer, Sean Anderson today. Luke suck, Meyer back in the house, back in the fold, you will see him tomorrow with me and Justin again have a great day, everybody light, subscribe. Do all the good stuff. Enjoy the day. We're out here as Luke says. Always, buy the W. the W.