DESERVED: Oklahoma State's Jax Forrest Has Physically PROVEN Why He's #1 & Primed For A National Title!

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1:01You get ad free episodes of your favorite Lockdown show, access to a members-only group chat for fans of your team, and you can even jump into the national chats and talk about whatever's happening across the league. Tap the Every Day or Club link in the show notes to learn more. Penn State Wrestling has eight. That's right. Eight title contenders at NCAA's, most of them are the favorite. Interestingly enough, the Oklahoma State is projected to finish second. So how many title contenders do they have? You are Lockdown College Crossover, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, 14 every day. And this episode is brought to you by five hour energy, have your cake, and drink it to birthday cake flavors back with no fork needed. You get vanilla cake flavor, caffeinated kick, and no sugar. It is party time order now at five hour energy dot com or Amazon.

2:02You are locked on to NCAA wrestling, Penn State and Oklahoma State wrestling. My name is Zach Sake on the host of Lockdown Knitney Lions. He is Cody Stove, all the host of Lockdown Oklahoma State. And thanks so much for joining us on this crossover episode. Initial takeaways here for the bracket. Now that it's released, should jacks have been the number one CD wrestled half a season. Basically, the committee says that the regular season really doesn't matter if you come in right away and win with style points. But we're going to begin with how Penn State and Oklahoma State stack up against one another because Penn State has eight title contenders. Most of them are going to be title favorites. But I think Oklahoma State might actually have a solid amount of contenders themselves with how they're projected second at the NCAA tournament over Ohio State, over other teams in Nebraska. So Cody, how many how many title contenders do the Cowboys actually have with David Taylor? I think four off off the top is very fair.

3:05And you know, I talk a little bit off air. I think Cody Merrill does have the capability to at least get to a final. I don't know if he's quite advanced enough to win it, but I think Cody Merrill can make some noise and at least potentially get there. And he loves low scoring affairs and a lot of these title matches are typically fairly low scoring affairs. You get Cody Merrill in a championship match and it's super, super tight. I mean, things could happen. It's unlikely, but you know, let me ask you this. Are you all still the king of wrestling right now? I mean, I think so. Should you all win the title this year? Yeah. Did you guys shatter a bunch of records last year and likely have the capability to do it again this year too? I would think so. Yet the story of college wrestling last year was Oklahoma State's wide Hendrixson and the story of college wrestling this year's Oklahoma State's Jacks Forest. So you guys are still the king, but baby, we're coming and the country can feel it. It's one individual versus an entire team. I don't disagree that Jacks Forest right now is essentially the face of NCAA wrestling

4:08and it's not where wide Hendrixson is is one and done with Oklahoma State. No, it's Jacks Forest for this season and the next three after that. I mean, Sergio Vega. I there's a lot of optimism for for D lock it. Yes. And you mentioned, and you mentioned Cody Merrill. So I agree definitely with Jacks Forest and Sergio Vega because the only one who can beat Jesse Mendes at 141 is probably Sergio Vega. I think that's a hundred percent accurate. Yeah. All right. And Troy Spratley, he has the capability, right? Because he proved it last year. He made it all the way to the title. It didn't go his way, but he'll get redemption against Robinson. This go round to get himself an opportunity to do it again. Do I think Troy Spratley is the best 125 in the country? No, I do not. But I didn't think that necessarily last year either. And he made a massive run. So yeah, it all depends on what versions of these guys show up. Specifically, you point out D lock it.

5:09If the beginning of the season aggressive version of D lock it that beat Mikey Calle Indo, if that guy shows up, yeah, he's got a chance to at least again, kind of like Cody Merrill get there, but maybe not win it, but get there for sure. But this last, I don't know, seven or seven in the last eight or so matches, D lock it has been non-existent the first two periods. He seems hell bent on doing everything miraculously in the third period in the last 30 seconds. I don't know why it's become this way for D lock it. So yeah, if the aggressive version shows up, he'll have a chance to do something special. The latter half of the season version shows up, yeah, he's going to be on the outside looking in. It's probably going to be for third place, because I don't seem getting past mess and brink in the sound. That's, he just meets him in the semi-final. If he was on the other side of the bracket, I'm totally on board with the mess and brink D lock it and CWA final at 165, but not when lock it would have to go through mess and brink. And you basically describe Marcus blaze, Marcus blaze just, he's somebody that, okay,

6:14I would say that yeah, he's more of the defensive wrestler, but he down the stretch, whether it's because of the difference in competition, I've just seen his offense drop off. And it's not because he's bad, where he's mediocre, where he's good, but he's not great. No, he can be graded offense, but he's elite when it comes to his defense. I feel like you're describing with what you said about D lock it absolutely applies to Marcus blaze. Well, and I'll tell you a name to at least pay attention to somebody that, as you and I discussed earlier in the season, Alex Fakundo and Zack Ryder, Robo, they were non-existent in scoring points, right? And I've text you about how I was frustrated with it and yada, yada, yada, now Zack Ryder has got an injury, I don't even know if he's going to be a competent wrestler in this tournament with that shoulder, but Alex Fakundo has been turning it on. Lately, he has been starting to score more points and put himself in a position to make

7:15things interesting. Do I think he can be a podium guy, possibly, probably not, but he's at least scoring points, which the first half of the season, him and Ryder, we're not scoring Cody Merrill, Conor DuSette, we're not necessarily scoring a bunch. So I do think this team clearly has an emphasis on getting to those bonus points. We're not quite there yet, but you are seeing improvements on most of the guys. The only guy that literally seems to be going backwards is DeLocket. Everybody else, as found ways to get in the bonus points classification, what you have to have in the NCAAs. Like even if you don't get to the title, if you tech fall your way on through the bracket, you're going to give Oklahoma State a chance to do what we just mentioned, which is finishes number two. Typically, right, if you ain't first your last shout out Ricky Bobby, but in this scenario, again, the fact that we know Penn State is the top dog, you have all these returning all Americans that shattered all these records, you have a bunch of national champions. The race is for second, right? That's the biggest conversational piece at the moment.

8:16And I think if you're Oklahoma State and you're trying to prove that we can catch Penn State in the next two years, you've got to finish second this season. It's a big deal. I mean, I agree 100%. And there's so many things that I want to respond to there, right? Alex Focundo could potentially face an old friend and leave I Haynes in that one versus eight matchup at 184. Now he's got to get through. He's got to get through Bo Mantanona of Michigan, if he's going to get to that point. And again, with what you described about how everybody's moving forward and some guys are moving backwards, oddly enough, you know who that interestingly applies to from Penn State's perspective. Okay, yes, Marcus Blaze, just be and we're split in hairs. Oh, he lost a match in tiebreaker. Now it's taking a step backwards, right? But you just, you just don't see the same Marcus Blaze that you saw at the beginning of the season. So that's what I point to, I would say this also applies to Rocco Welsh. He's winning, but did hold on hold on.

9:18He's getting some lucky breaks. Did he win the big 12 title or big 10 titles? Sorry. Do you think? I mean, yes, and it, but it's because of reaction times. So don't hate Rocco Welsh. Hate the changes in the rule system because it looks like a takedown. It sounds like a takedown. It wasn't a takedown. But I know the hand placement thing was in his favor. I get it. I get it. But I just did. It makes no sense. It's still a lucky break. There's five more seconds on the clock. He doesn't win that match. Right. That's fair. That's fair. So Rocco Welsh, he was starting to peek in the middle of the season against Angela Ferrarian. What I was concerned about that, hey, if you hit the mountaintop too early, and it's not that Rocco Welsh can't get better, but ironically enough, somebody who keeps winning, who is truly undefeated, I'm sitting here saying, I have less confidence in him now than I did in the middle of the season. How is that possible for an undefeated guy? Well, and I'll give you another fun one to just pay attention to is Casey Swirerski,

10:24the beginning of the season. He's doing that. He was non-existent. He didn't even look like he was going to be able to keep his starting spot. Yeah, we thought he was going to lose a spot. 100%. And then he just progressively started getting better, and somebody will check me, I'm sure. But I think he's won like 12 of his last 13 or 11 of his last 12, or he's put himself now in a position. Sounds right to me, based on his record. He took a bunch of early losses. Yes. Yeah, he was below 500 at one point in time. And he just, he got hot. And yeah, I think he's becoming a little bit more crafty, and that's a direct reflection of what David Taylor and the RTC is trying to get in development wise again. That is the crazy part to me. I don't, I know Zach Ryder has heard, but you and I have talked off air. I don't understand when Ryder was healthy, how you can roll around with David Taylor somewhat successfully, and then not do that on the mat whenever it counts. And it did make a lot of sense to me. And then the same thing with DeLocket, like he has all of the capability.

11:24He just, I don't, I don't know, man, I can't explain it. Maybe I just don't know off about wrestling, which is fair, but I don't understand how somebody can go from ultra aggressive, has the capability to take fall everybody to being non-existent the first two periods. I just, I don't get it unless he's hurt, which I don't see. The guys that we're being really critical of, DeLocket, Marcus Blase, they're still freshmen. And they're, and they're true freshmen, right? So they're, they're only going to get better. Speaking of true freshmen who are only going to get better, he got the one seed despite wrestling 13 matches, half, half of DeBendivino season. And he gets the number one spot. Should Jack's forest have actually actually been seeded here? Because basically what the committee is implying is that the regular season does not matter. That is coming up next here on this Lockdown crossover. I'm Clea Butler, host of Lockdown Women's Basketball. And this is Mazda's Women's Basketball snapshot celebrating the work no highlight reel can ever capture.

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15:32you get ad free shows for both locked on knitting lions and locked on Oklahoma state or any of your favorite shows plus you will get access to talk all things Penn State Oklahoma state in the group chat that's on discord. And if you're signed up before the NCAA tournament tips off, you can get into our everyday air club bracket pool on discord for a chance to win locked on March. Right now you can use code March to get your first month free. That's right. That's code March. Check out the link in the show notes to learn more to sign up for the all new everyday club. Okay, we pick back up with I think this is a major storyline because of the implications that it has. It's the major storyline, bro. Jack, Jack's forest subjectively is the number one wrestler, but objectively, I mean, the guy wrestled 13 matches compared to Bendivino wrestled 26. Oh, but it's the caliber of a punt. He had 26 opportunities to lose another match. Okay, I'm not saying that oh, Jack's would have lost a match if he wrestled 20 plus,

16:35but he still didn't prove it. So we don't know what it is, whether subtly or not, it's implying that the regular season does not matter. And if you win some elite matches up front, you're good. You deserve the number one seed. So I don't even know that the committee was even following the criteria. I know I sound like follow the rules. You got to follow the rules here. Look, we know Jack's forest is the number one overall wrestler at this point. But the regular season does matter, okay? I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head at the very end. Should divino be the number one seed? Probably does he deserve the number one seed because of totality in the season? Yes, probably, but you just mentioned it. Like if you look at the eye test, right? If you make this applicable football, if you look at the eye test, what Jack's forest could do on the mat? Not I don't even know if anybody in the country can do, including Bendivino. So if it's supposed to be who's the best wrestler at that weight,

17:36I think it is clearly Jack's forest because of his physical capabilities. When you watch what Jack's is doing, I mean, look what he did to Drake Iola. He treated him like a red head step job. You to thought that Drake Iola was the 17-year-old high school kid. And Jack's forest was the All-American national championship level dude. And he just does it so effortlessly, so seamlessly. I think he is clearly the number one guy just by visibly watching what he does. Okay, the regular season doesn't matter. I mean, that's the, that's the, that's the, I did. I started it off with Davino earned it. He deserved it, but at the same point in time, if their job is to put the best wrestler at the top of the weight class, I don't see how there's a massive argument there, other than the fact that you are right. Davino in his regular season did just kind of get pushed into the corner. I mean, this puts a massive target on Jack's now though. And 133 is arguably the most competitive weight of all of them, right? Typically 165 is the weight that everyone talks about.

18:38I think everyone in the country is talking about 133. And yeah, am I worried about Marcus Blaze? Yes, am I worried about Davino? Yes, but I'll tell you who I'm probably most worried about is Side Hill. Side Hill is equally as crafty as Jack's forest wrestle against him. I don't think projecting a lot of hypotheticals with Davino in blaze. So I totally get that. Yeah, I think Jack's is a little bit more flexible and has a little bit more leverage capability. And that is the only thing that puts him above Side Hill at the moment. I mean, if you've been following Jack's forest progression development, because he was a Pennsylvania wrestler. So it was and he was connected to Penn State and David Taylor for the longest time. So and then DT takes the Oklahoma State job. So that's neither here nor there. Forest, though, to go on the run that he did on the senior level and to become, I think he is. It's either him or PJ Duke. They're both 19 year olds to make the lineup for the United States at the world championships.

19:42They're separated by months. They're the youngest ever to do it. So I can't remember who exactly it is. I would say I want to push back and say, well, now forest has a target on his back. When you enroll in the middle of the season, and you take a starting job, you come in with the background that you went to the world championships, you won the spot on the senior level in high school. While you were in high school, granted, okay, he's not. He's 19 years old. So he's an he's an older senior. Okay. So what? I said 17 to nine. My bad. No, but but forest, I say my argument is that he's always had, he should have always had the target on his back. Him being the one seed here as opposed to the second or the third seed, doesn't mean anything to me. It's the fact that you were the new golden wrestler at 19 years old on the senior level circuit while you were still enrolled at high school. So he should have had a target the second he stepped foot on campus.

20:44Yes, but if he would have gotten the two seed instead of the one seed, the national conversation would be drastically different too. It would be, I don't think I don't think the animal would be as big as if he got the two seed. But now that the worry seed, I think you've got the wrong seed, everyone in the country is going to say, well, like you just said, well, why did I do all this in the regular season then? What's the point? Why did why did I just wait till the second half of the season? Yeah, so I mean, I get the argument. But again, when you visibly watch them, Jackson force does, Jackson force might be the best wrestler we've had since like John Smith, the way that he can pull things out of his wa-zoo, it's absolutely crazy. I wanted to jump in there so badly you could you could see the reaction of my face because I was you're talking about Oklahoma's state, because I was like wait a minute, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. With a kale sanderson this pencil, yeah, no, no. No, no, no, I'm saying just the way that John Smith wrestled, and the way that Jack's wrestles, they're very, very, very comparable. And Jack's is more

21:48limber, he's more flexible. And I think you could argue that he has equal, um, explosivity as, as John Smith. I just fully can't get on board with him being the number one seed because I think of, okay, the NFL or baseball, NBA basketball, where your record matters at the end of the season, that's how you get your, that's how you get your seeding, okay? And Jack's forest, okay? Well, he looked, he, you know, the Dodgers beat up on all these teams and we know they're the best team. They were the third, they were third in the, I think I have that right in the major league baseball standings last year before they went on the run. So this is kind of a similar case here when we know the Dodgers are the best team in baseball. Okay, but the record didn't reflect that after the regular season. It's the same thing here. We assume Jack's forest is the best wrestler here, but it nullifies the regular season. So I can't get on board with that because that's like saying, well,

22:50we know the best team in the NFL is this team, but they dealt with a couple of injuries or they took a game off and it cost them the record or what, it cost them a little bit of the record, right? So I get it. That's where I can't, that's forest forest should have been the third seed, which is splitting hairs because either way, we're going to get, well, we would be splitting hairs for blaze and forest in a hypothetical two versus three matchup. But that one seed is huge because you avoid Ben Devino, you will, you avoid Marcus Blaze, if you're Jack's forest, not that you necessarily need to avoid either of those wrestlers, but those in force case, but objectively speaking, those guys are title contenders and it's no disrespect to Aaron Sidel. You beat Sidel the first time and that was a crazy matchup. I watched that one, but I think it's the newness of these other matchups, right? We're getting familiarity in hypothetical semi-finals with Devino and Blaze and forest in Sidel. There's a new

23:50wrinkle to it when you have to face somebody you haven't faced either in a long time or so when you're facing for the first time at the NCAA level. So you get to avoid, if you're forest, it helps you out that you're wrestling Sidel again versus Blaze or Devino in that semi-final. If I were to wager, I would probably bet the house that Jack's forest wants every part of Blaze and Devino if he can get it. I would hope so. I would hope so. That makes for great competition. You mentioned 133 being the, we'll come back with this because which weight class is the best overall weight class? Well, Jack's forest is at 133 and Ben Devino, Marcus Blaze, Sidel. There's Tyler Larkin. I would throw and then you have the old heads now with Drake Ayyello and Lucas Burr, but the outlook for this weight class at 133. I mean, it's going to be elite for the next three seasons. I would make the argument that maybe 157 is actually better. We're going to talk about that next year on this Lockdown crossover. And today's episode is brought to you by Coast

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25:57at coastpay.com slash locked on college. Go to coastpay.com slash locked on college to see how you can earn up to $2,000 credit terms apply. The coast visa commercial credit card is issued by Celtic Bank. All card accounts are subject to credit approval. This episode is brought to you by 5 hour energy. Welcome to the 5 hour energy flavor draft with 18 different flavors to choose from including new options like confetti craze. Pretty rainbow or cotton candy. There's something for everyone. The board is set. The flavors are ready and I've got my number one overall pick for the 5 hour energy flavor draft and I'm sure you do too. Let's go over some of the options. So we talked about the newcomers confetti craze fruity rainbow cotton candy. I'm going to go with tropical burst is my top choice. You get tasty caffeine with island vibes delicious combination of pineapple and apricot flavors. It has a juicy fruit forward tropical profile with a sweet light tang it's smooth it's rounded you get the bright sunny tastes kind of vibes with the island style fruit punch.

27:03Maybe you're going with one of the classics cherry grape berry strawberry banana the option the choice it's yours with the 5 hour energy flavor draft 5 hour energy shots give you a boost with zero sugar and 5 hour energy has a lot of upcoming flavor innovations plant you can check them out at 5 hour energy dot com or over at amazon find your new favorite flavor of 5 hour energy shots available at 5 hour energy dot com or amazon I've always said the entire season that 157 should be talked about in the same respect to 133 where it's not as condensed where you have blazed a vino and forest and side L all on the same timeline at 133 but you look at 157 that weight class is just as loaded as 133 just doesn't necessarily have the same amount of timelines that are overlapping PJ Duke and trail Taylor Meyer Shapiro Caleb Larkin who go figure his brother

28:07Kyler Larkin is at 133 an Oklahoma state less wrestler and and land in robodoo branding canon of Ohio state so even though this weight class PJ Duke's going to be the face of it kind of like jacks forest at this point in time at 133 yeah I would argue that 157 is the best overall weight class in terms of elite wrestler the quantity and the quality of competition here whereas 133 it's really a it's a four man race for over the next three years but I think 157 just has many more honestly almost double there I mean you might be right right you also like a cardinus in though in there I know you're really really big on Shapiro I play a villanoi um Larkin is sneaky Larkin so Larkin is basically the equivalent of Sergio Vega that is he wrestles the same exact way of Sergio Vega with that he he almost purposely puts himself in harm's way to take advantage of it

29:14and that's how he got land in robodoo land in robodoo is a shorter strong sawdoth bulldog and Kyler Blarkin is just so lanky and flexible and and maneuverable that land in robodoo had a hard time he couldn't physically do what land in robodoo does which is take you know take people to the mat and control things he couldn't do that against Larkin so I think Larkin is a sneaky pick from the outside looking in do I think he's gonna beat PJ no I don't but I think out of the top five he actually in my opinion I think he has the best chance could Larkin beat Duke absolutely I think that is a I think that's absolutely in the realm of possibility but it's PJ Duke's going to be the favorite oh yeah somebody said to me the other day on a live show hey does PJ Duke ever wrestle or he didn't ask he said you can book it PJ Duke's not losing another collegiate wrestling match from here on out I said you know what I would probably if you gave me 50 50 lots and said okay PJ Duke never loses again versus PJ Duke loses at least one I'm gonna have to wager on

30:19the fact that Duke's probably never losing a match again well I mean land in robodoo is also just a freshman he'll be there he'll be there Brandon cannons in one year ahead but he'll be there same thing with Canon Webster like I said 133 gets all the gets all the hype gets all the promotion and that's understandable with what jacks forested with what Marcus play the pedigrees that Marcus Blaze and Bendivino came in with Aaron side L he's he's the surprising one yes everybody for the we all for the most part new hey forest is going to be instantly good Marcus blaze is going to be instantly good Bendivino same thing after a red shirt season Aaron side L was kind of the one that came out of nowhere yes optimism was high but is it going to take time is he going to break out maybe later on in year two no he's right there in the mix with those three other guys now so side L makes the class that much more rounded but at 157 again Duke Taylor you have the

31:20veterans Taylor Shapiro I guess I guess Brandon cannons a veteran at that point in time because hello he's not a freshman but that this class is a lot more well rounded as opposed to just being top heavy but the superstars they help grow the sports but PJ Duke and jacks forest equivalent to one another they're the face of their respective class and PJ Duke and and jacks forest have more parallels than that right what they were doing on the senior level at free style and everything so I'm going I'm going to side with 157 I have people say it's 133 I say 157 and and honestly it's not that close I see I'm with the people I think it's definitely definitely 133 but as you'd mentioned it's it's going to be it's going to be interesting to see over the years I think that's one of the coolest parts about all of this is a lot of the top five top 10 wrestlers in the country right now are freshmen like the idea that you need to guys then

32:21yes the idea that you need to sit and develop for a year so it's kind of going out the window these guys are showing up D1 P4 podium ready and it's it's it's absolutely crazy and I think it's because more wrestlers are just getting in that type of competition it's because of how they're training where they're training when they're training the the guys that I've I've interviewed when they were at the high school level they talk about training with some of the best so they're already scrambling they're already sparring and rolling around with the best of the best and I think if you're wondering why are we seeing these true freshmen take over the sport it's because their developmental clock has started much earlier and where it started and I think you know a part of that we just got a we got to give a shout out to the sport of wrestling growing I'd say in the last five years alone the sport of wrestling has grown more than any point in time in its history by miles and miles and now that you have the path like the RAF and stuff I think I think people

33:25are becoming more invested in high school wrestling because of the new capabilities the possibilities because used to be wrestling was like a non starter sport because after high school after college there wasn't really nowhere to go unless you were going to win a medal in the Olympics so if you weren't going to win a medal in the Olympics like that was it you were done but now you have RAF you have UFC I think it's I think it's the part of the sports that's growing a ton is is why some of these guys are developing quicker as well great conversation here as it always is on this lockdown crossover and this is just the first of a few as we build up towards NCAA he is Cody stove all the host of locked on Oklahoma state my name is Zach Saker the host of locked on knit a line subscribe to both of our shows on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts so you do not miss daily conversations around Penn State and Oklahoma state hey we're going to be breaking it all down all week leading up to NCAA so be on the lookout for new shows new crossover shows as well between him and I to preview all things this NCAA tournament and how Penn State

34:26and Oklahoma state did this is just scratching the surface we got more to analyze more to break down can't wait to do that let us know your thoughts down in the comments section thank you so much for being here Cody thanks so much for the time and the perspective and we'll be chatting again very soon so can't wait to talk again absolutely brother man it's always it's always a great time I great I very much enjoy talking to state wrestling so I appreciate you the winner games are officially here and if you're anything like us you're locking in for events you only get to see on the biggest stage every four years and that's why following the winner games on fandal just makes sense from middle counts to individual events to finding your angle on the sports you care about most fandal gives you more ways to say connected to the action the drama of curling matches at start slow and somehow getting tense fast hockey games that feel different right from opening face up the winter games are on and there's no better way to follow them than with fandal fandal play your game