Deserted Ireland Discs 25-03-2026 at 19:00

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1:03Get your campaign on Sheffield Live. To find out more about advertising on Sheffield Live, write to advertising at Sheffieldlive.org or call o114-281-4082. Hello, good evening, it's here we are again, Deserted Island Dis, it's a Wednesday, a cold cold Wednesday, here in Sheffield Live, coming down your video. Deserted Island Dis is the show where we've tried to get people from Ireland, now living in South Yorkshire, but we're over a year into the show and I'm every single Irish person I've met. I've asked to come on the show, most of them have, but I've run out of Irish people, so one of the, when I first started the show, one of the wonderful people that got in touch and said they enjoyed the show very much, and they loved my Manchester accent here in there, was my old, old school friend Richard Lawless, so why not have him on the show, so good evening, he's here with us now, I love it.

2:03Good evening, how are you, how are you, good, after all this time, so nice to be here. We're just saying it's probably, it's at least 35 years, it's not longer since we last saw each other, so it's a bit of a social experiment for you listeners to bear with us and see how we get on, might hate each other. Yeah, but I can tell you in the last week since you told me about this show, I broke out in acne for the first time in about 35 years, yeah, where that came from. We've been to that team, yeah, so that's nice, yeah. So he's travelled all the way up from Kent today, which is nice of you, so we'll have to have a few beers after that, I'll show you the famous Irish Triangle pubs, and do me best to get to see why I love Sheffield so much and whatever else does. Oh right, then, okay, can you do that, yeah, you have to switch your hands to that, yeah. So we're still going to follow the format of Deserted Islandis, which is basically

3:06talking about your life, and then you've picked sort of songs that kind of punctuate your life, I mean, a lot of tears in your life. Yeah, isn't it, it's very hard to choose, isn't it, because it's just five or six songs and I've sort of thought quite a few different ones, but you have to choose some. Yeah, but do you want me to talk about them already? No, I was going to say it was music, music, yeah. I've been a big part of your life, then. Definitely, I think, yeah, I think, well for me, I can't speak for everyone, but yeah, and the sort of person who drifts off into music all the time and goes on a magic carpet ride, so and vision, you know, and visions, things, images to music and things. So, yeah, it is, yeah, yeah. So we should say what I do now, but I mean, suppose we got in touch on Facebook, maybe two years ago, 18 months ago, something like that. Anyway, we've been in touch on Facebook and I get to see a bit of your world through Facebook, and it is, and you've done amazing travelling, so we kind of jump to the end

4:10and see you spend a lot of time living in Hong Kong or lots of other stuff, so we'll get to that bit for the listeners to see that perspective we've seen in the world, but to start with, let's start at the beginning, and so you grew up in the same bit of Manchester as me, obviously, you went to the same private school, but yeah, what was life like back then in the early 17th century, in the city of Manchester? Yeah, yeah. Northern suburbs of Manchester, so my earliest memories, I suppose, are, you know, like a lot of people are generation, with the old kind of coal fire and making those knots in the newspapers and trying to get warm in the morning, I think. So you built your own fires, did that become your job at one point? It seemed to have been, yes, yeah. We did that, you know, just a very normal domestic thing, sort of mum, dad, two kids, and

5:10yeah, and, you know, a fairly, fairly happy, normal suburban life, I suppose, yeah, and I mean, I remember going to school with you, and you weren't at the nursery though, were you? No, I didn't go to the nursery. I remember that. Yeah, yeah, no, but I do. I remember meeting you pretty, I think, in my ear, it was the first day at the new school, and I remember we played a little game on the playground, it's a pipe full primary school and I, holding your hand and turning around, you know, a spitting round game. I'm not expecting you to remember that, but it should be by yourself, but I remember it. No, I don't, no, no, no, I'm afraid not, that one slipped by me, but that was, yeah, I think it was. It was a moment. It's funny that there's moments that just stick in your mouth as well. There are. There's many more moments that just totally go out, you might. They're incredibly random from what I can make out. The random memories I have, I try and figure out what it was that made me remember that, because you'll, for example, you meet an old friend like yourself and you'll sort of

6:15say, hey, do you remember that? And they'll go, no, why do you remember that? I don't know. Apart from the big events which you have shared memories of. Yeah. I'll definitely, that's definitely, definitely definitely the case. But for, I suppose people that don't know, I mean, we grew up in a place called Blakely in that, an old Manchester, and you must have had it throughout your life and I have it over and I've done no one's ever heard of Blakely, so look, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Manchester, don't need it. So, and then they go, well, Manchester, yeah, yeah, you want to put a Manchester, I used to do Manchester often and say, yes, and the, and the door, it's all Blakely, oh, don't have heard of that. Yeah. Because everybody in Manchester goes generally to the south side. Yes. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. But yeah. So, you have to kind of approximate it for them and say, well, I mean, you remember Rochdale or something, and well, it's halfway between the centre and there or it's near Heaton Park or something like that. And I've occasionally heard it on, on national TV or radio and they call it Blakely.

7:16Yeah. Blakely, it's about Blakely in it, yeah. Yes. And we laughed all the way. I remember. So, it was, I mean, it was quite a mostly, I mean, you and I lived in houses that were private houses, like, I remember as a Terry Stounsen, you were a bit posh of 70 times when I was a child. When you see my dad was a social climber, he'd moved out. His parents lived in, at the bottom of Blakely Village in those old, Terry's. So, you stopped the Blakely film? Yeah, yeah. And he did his best to kind of get out of that. He would never let us watch Coronation Street or anything like that. What did you do, Dad? He was an engineer at Francis and really service base. Yeah. It's a lot of people were, weren't they? Yes. It was a big part of that side of Manchester was quite industrial, weren't it, like, Aerospace and I was on our doorstep. Yeah. Yeah, we got, we all got poisoned by ICI. So I believe someone's, yeah, I need to know more about that, yeah. And what, yes, I have heard about that. Yeah, he, that was, he got drafted into the Air Force in the fifties, I think, and he

8:22was like the first one of his family that had been abroad and it changed his life a bit. He would come, he would tell me stories about it and why Cyprus and Egypt, he was there. So it was like national service? Yeah. Yeah. So it was that generation. Yeah, mid fifties, I think he was one of the last years to do it, but there was a lot going on in Egypt then and things and it, it's Suis and the history of that. I don't know exactly, yeah. So yeah, that would have changed his life, because it did, yeah, yeah, like he's supposed family stayed in Blakeland, yeah, but he got to see a bit of the world and a lot of people and, yeah. Yeah, I think, and in those days, of course, it was very difficult to travel unless you were in the forces or something and you had that opportunity. So that gave him the opportunity, I suppose. But then, you know, the sixties came along and there's no more national service, the pill and the world changed.

9:22Yeah. How about you want to, what's it, and you met your mom in that pipe, where's your mom? Yeah, I believe, my mom was from Barney originally and, yeah, and she was, she had relatives up in Middleton and my dad met her at it. Sidebanks? Yes. My dad met her at a dance, as you did in back in the day, yes, yeah, and the rest is this too. Well, part of the show is music, so let's go and see if you can see it first, you know, some wider, wider group. Oh, well, sort of, so we're born in, both born in 71, yeah, I mean, that was a great year for music, but I can't remember it, it's probably one of the best, but, but the first sort of memories I get that I can, sort of coordinate in my head would have been about three years later, sort of 1974. And I remember, like, the theme tune to Black Beauty, okay, high level. And the stylistics, but there was this one as well, and my brother and I had, like, as

10:27little kids had kung fu pajamas, and we've got, there's an old synth, there's a cine film of us like fighting in the bedroom, play fighting, yeah, I had lots of real fights after that, but, but play fighting with our kung fu pajamas, and, yeah, and this was a song, I remember, one of the first songs I remember, yeah, doing this, fantastic, kung fu fighting, Caldwell's. But it was going for fighting Those kids were fastest like me In fact, it was a little bit frightening

11:29But they fought with expert timing They were funky Chinatown From funky Chinatown They were chopping them up They were chopping them down It's an ancient Chinese heart And everybody knew their part From a fading to a snack And I'm kicking from the hip Everybody was going for fighting Those kids got fastest like me In fact, it was a little bit frightening But they fought with expert timing They were funky Billy Chin And little Sammy Charles He said, here comes the big boss Let's get it on We took them all and made a stand Start it swaying with the hand A sudden motion made me skip Now we're into a brand new trip

12:30Everybody was kung fu fighting Those kids were fastest like me In fact, it was a little bit frightening But they did it with expert timing Oh, yeah Give up, give up, give up Show them how it was kung fu fighting Those kids were fastest like me In fact, it was a little bit frightening Make sure you have expert timing Oh, fighting

13:31Hands were moving, fasting their slide Oh Oh That's a tacky first choice, switch in Kung fu fighting, that's the choice of my guess Mr Richard Lardos Yes, we must forget Hong Kong Fu He came out that year as well He was like plethora of kung fu and karate stuff From those days Yes, he's on Bruce Lee films right when they don't know. Yeah, yeah, I've been to Bruce Lee's house. Oh, yeah. In Kowlin Tongue, that's it, yes. Is that China? Hong Kong, yeah. Hong Kong, right there. Yeah, there's nothing there really other than, you can see it's a nice middle-class house that he had. It's got a black hole. It has, yes, yeah.

14:31A tourist, tourist, yeah, going there and seeing it. Yes, yeah. Actually, there might be two. There's one, I think, on Hennessy Road, which is on Hong Kong Island, where he grew up in a very little, very typical kind of tiny little place, and then there's his, I got famous house. Yes, yeah. Right, so we're going to kind of discover. Well, I mean, even like, I knew you had to make a team, but there's loads of stuff. As kids, you just don't talk about it there. So I knew, yeah, during that period, but I didn't really know you. You kind of just, you know, you don't talk to each other when you're like 10 years old about what's going on in your home. You just kind of go, oh, let's play football. Let's talk about football. And I was kind of thinking about actually, you know, what was going on in your head and stuff. Well, yeah, I'm not really sure what was going on. I mean, I think it was, you know, life really was just about

15:31thinking about the immediate future. What's happening today? What's happening tomorrow? Playing out, trying, you know. Are you allowed to play out, right? Yeah. Did they not play out anymore? No, they're not playing out these days. Are you sure about that? Yeah. They say that. But I do see it. They do. Some places. Yeah. I think, yeah, yeah. It's a dying thing playing out. Actually, this will fit in. So, last time I was back, I was in Manchester, and I went, I wanted to look at my grandmas house, which is that terrace house, a little old terrace, and I wanted to see that, that room. I wanted to see that, but I do see it. They do. There's that terrace house, a little old terrace, and a quilter grove, which, well, it doesn't. But yeah, it's in Manchester, in Blakely, and it's a proper little old coronation street type terrace, and I noticed that it now been all renovated and gated. All right.

16:31But beyond the gate, all these kids were skipping and playing out, just like they did in the old days, and one of them was like, why are you looking at my house, mister? Yeah, was you gated? That's just looking dodgy. Oh, sorry. I said, my grandmother used to live here. And, you know, it's a little kid, she says, oh, I'm sorry. I said, it's all right. So, it just came to ever looking at it. But they were all playing out, just like I always imagined. Yeah. Northern kids doing hopscotch and stuff. Well, that we had the gate, sorry. Yeah, yeah. It seemed safe and... Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, we were looking on me. It was a tight fold school we went to. I thought it was a great school when it was good teachers, good people, and it was like, you know, classes were still probably about 30, but if you had a nice community there, I thought... Yeah. It was great. And then we both went to the same secondary school, which was not as great, was it? Not as good.

17:31No. You go back to the first one. The primary school. I believe it was kind of like a prefab school that was put up after World War II, and wasn't meant to last very long, but it actually lasted a very long time until... Yeah. When it got pulled down. Yeah, recently in the movie... And it looked like it was made of wood or something. It looked like it was made of wood or something. It was like a wooden facade, at least. But it was... Yeah, it was great and no complaints. I loved that school. And the memories of it, and the classes and the kids, and you have a big old radio on the wall, with like one switch. I don't know if we have... We must have listened to it at some point. Yeah, we would have done it. We would have trips away, and we'd go to Lynette Clothing, Darby Show. Did you do that? Yes. Great. Great times, great. Yeah. Well, then...

18:31Should we move on to the secondary school days? Well, all right. Yeah. Well, actually, no, I tell you what, before we do, I'd say that... You would talk about football as well. No, not well enough. Especially, no. But in those... Well, in those years, yeah. Could you ask me about growing up? So one of the big parts are growing up, and I'm sure for lots of people, wherever they are in England, especially like Sheffield as well, is that, you know, he went to football matches, and I never particularly wanted to go to football matches, but it was deemed by my family that I would be going to football matches. So, yeah, from about 1977 to 1982, we had season tickets at Main Road for Man City, so I'd have to go. I didn't really want to go, because City weren't very good, and there was always languishing at the bottom of Division I most of the time, but... So I was...

19:31I still am. I'm on the 90s fan. Ah, well. Yes. But did you go? Yeah, alright. I don't want to start. I don't want to start. Yes, I had a season ticket. Right. A bit later though, I used to go... We used to go occasionally at that time. We probably go, like, three or four times a season at all, because we was doing other stuff, which... Anyway, I was... I remember I was quite chess, quite, for Manchester, didn't it? Didn't I beat you at chess? What, what, what? No. You were just going to say once, then, weren't you? Because I did. I remember it now. I did. Yes. Well, that we gave later. That you beat me now. For sure. No, but we... So I never got to go football, but when I was a bit older, like, kind of, forty and fifteen, I used to go, yeah, season took me stuff. Yeah, so... Hmm. So I did go. But yeah, I remember just how cold it was all the time, and I was always freezing, and you could just see this... the flood-like, with all the rain coming across it.

20:32And then we'd get back to my grandparents' house at the end of it, like, it's... Jooks of Asadon, or something, and... My granddad had poked his head around the chair, like, how'd you get on with something? Oh, we lost three on granddad. He said, he said, something that rhymes with city, that we used with S.H. Yeah. And, yeah, and then he'd say, with him many there, and it's like, I didn't count him granddad. I don't know. But, yeah, it was usually just cold, and miserable, and I was glad when I didn't have to go by the time it became a teenager, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if I ever be showing old clips of main road, and... and from that era, I'm always looking to see if we can see myself. Yeah. Was you in the pot lane here? I do remember it. Yes. Yeah. So, let's play a song. I know we'd kind of jump in the heads, but we have to get these songs in there. Oh, yeah. Your next song is... Okay, so that's a bit later on in life, but we can still have it. Yeah. All right. So, I mean, yeah. I want a great fan of 80's music.

21:34I was always listening to, like, Elvis there. I said, you can say that now, but you couldn't say it in the 80's. Yeah, yeah. But, um... And people look at you weird, don't you? They did at the time. Yeah. Now, I'm like, you know, people will say, like, oh, my favourite Elvis songs this, and I don't believe I'm hearing this. Yeah. People like him now. But anyway, I liked... I was sort of already a retro, like, by the way, when I was growing up. But... Seven years old. Oh, what are you looking at? People have an album. In... Yeah, so, I didn't really enjoy sort of contemporary music until I remember someone giving me a tape when it said Stone Rose is on it, and they said, you might like this, and I did, and it was like such a breath of fresh air that you could... Oh, right. Wow. Yeah. They've got it. Yes, so. It's the same. I think it's at the same tape, and it was like a boat like tape that people just passed to each other. Well, I think you could copy it. Yeah. People would copy the stuff.

22:34But yes, and I thought, oh, right. Okay, now things are changing. That's good. Yeah. So, we'll play... Made a Stone, and then by the Stone Rose. Yeah.

23:48I think it's built your life. When the streets are cold, the lonely, and the cars they burn below me, I would alone. These land won't be long. I'm standing over against the cold now that the flames have taken away. At least you left your life in stone. I'm falling, falling dark and sea, ten twisted grills dripping back at me. Bad money dies, I love the same. Sometimes I wait,

24:51but it's a sign. When the streets are cold, the lonely, and the cars they burn below me, don't these times, fill your eyes. When the streets are cold, the lonely, and the cars they burn below me, I would alone. These land won't be long. Sometimes I wait, but it's a sign.

25:53When the streets are cold, the lonely, and the cars they burn below me, don't these times, fill your eyes. When the streets are cold, the lonely, and the cars they burn below me, don't these times, fill your eyes. When the streets are cold, the lonely, and the cars they burn below me, I would alone. Yes, made of stone.

26:53I'm glad we got some Manchester music in. I'm a big fan of stone. So different when the first came out. That whole rhythm section of those three guys was absolutely fantastic. What's your point for money you died recently? Yes, he was from Manakarawod. I believe so. Yeah, it's Boston. It's Boston. Yeah, it's Boston. Yeah. Sorry, Richard. I'm just going to say that they were just brilliant the three of them. I mean, a neon brown looked the part as well. Obviously, he was kind of weak with his vocals. But if you ever, I saw them in Hong Kong, and then... Yeah, because that's a while ago. Now, isn't it since they did that world tour? But I think they were in Madison Square. They did one show in Madison Square Gardens. And now they can... The sound system, or whatever they can sort of tune his voice to the right.

27:55Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it sounded brilliant. Yeah, he can. He did sound. I saw him a few times when it's old again. Right, well, let's get back to your life. You know what? We're halfway through the show already. So it's deserted islandess. The show where we interview people usually with from Ireland and now living in South Yorkshire. My guest today is neither of those things. But, you know, who cares? It's a matter. It's my show. Have you ever won? So it's me... It's me old-school friend who I've not seen for over 35 years. Richard Lawless on the show, when we're trying to get through his life. We're not getting very far. Richard, are we? Well, all right. What about the name Lawless? How about that? Well, that... Go on, then. So there's about Lawless. So, yeah. So apparently, I thought it was Irish, but it's not. It's to do with the land between England and Scotland, especially like Northumberland. Yeah. I mean, it's still really sort of a... Bit wild. Sparse and wild. And back in the day, if you were sort of equidistantly far from either King,

28:58you were not really expected to follow the laws of life. Oh, okay. And you were... Lawless. Yes. It's not bad as you might think. Yes. No, that's not anarchist, yes. But... Well, yes. Well, that's a vaguely interesting story, Richard. Thank you. So... But what we do want to get... I mean, there's so much to talk about with it. What, I believe. So I'm mostly about kind of you spending time. But let's get the lead up, then, to... Alf, how can we get to go from... to get you to leaving the country, then? So I kind of lost touch with you at the age of 18, whatever. So... Yeah. Well, I left school at 16 and... I wish that I had gone into further education. But none of my family ever had. None of them had ever been to university. And it didn't seem a natural step to do it. I remember going... Maybe you went to another people our age.

29:58Remember going to see a career's advisor. Yeah. When I was 16 and I was fascinated by advertising and how it affected people and what affected people and the psychology and everything. And I thought, I wanted to do that. And the guy said, well, just start as a junior. He says, don't bother going to college or university. He says, these loads of people coming out of university. You haven't got a job. Yeah. So he said, don't bother doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Great advice. So I did do that. And for a couple of years. And actually, my manager was actually involved in... There's stone roses before they got famous in promoting them at this ad agency. That was their first... Just remembering our first got to hear about them. But then I left that. And I wanted a bit of freedom. And I went up to the lake district and started saving my pennies

30:58to try and broaden my horizons, I suppose. Yes. Why do you think that got in your head? It brought in your horizons. And if you found me... Yeah. I know that these lots of people are perfectly happy with staying in the same city and everything. And they love it. And they tell you how much they love their city and what have you. And I liked Manchester, but it was always somewhere that I felt that I wanted to get away from. And I, from an early age, I had sort of dreams of not just going to France or something or Spain. I wanted to get right away as far as I could. Okay. And in those days, it seemed that you had this idea that you had to win the pools or to emigrate or something. And it took some years before I realized you don't have to do that. You actually can, especially when you're young and single,

32:00you can actually save up. And it doesn't take that long. And then you can actually go and do what it is you wanted to do. Yeah. So you did that. So you... What were you doing? I liked to shake working. I was working in hotels like first as a waiter and a wine waiter. And then... And you live in and it's great. And then there's a cook, a chef. But when you... When you were up there, you... There might be a couple of people, like a couple of girls from Canada or South Africa or Australia, traveling the world. And you got like, wow, really? You've been all those places and work... Yeah. And then we'll be off... You know, we'll be going around Europe. And you're like, wow. Yeah. And it just got me thinking. And I did meet a girl from South Africa who invited me to go and stay with her. Okay. And I was talking to you before and you've been to South Africa.

33:01I found out that you also... I spent six months in South Africa and you did too. And yeah, that was my first kind of big trip away when I was 21. And it was the time... You would remember this as well. It was the time when it hadn't quite become what it had known. So it was changing, right? It was changing like the clerk was still a white government, but they agreed to refer to... Yeah. To work towards the elections and stuff. So you're saying you met Desmond Tutu there, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. I... Oh, dear. Yeah. Yeah, that was a bit just before I left. Yeah, he was down on the beach doing a... He was the Archbishop of Cape Town for people who might not know. He was in the... On the news a lot in the 90s and 80s. And yeah, he shook my hand and said, and greeted me in Hebrew,

34:01because he must have assumed there was Jewish. Okay. Fair enough. I had black hair and not a very prominent jawline. I don't know. Well, I don't know for whatever reason. I didn't certainly didn't have a skull cap on or anything, but yeah, he... And he was very nice to me and... Amazing. I mean, the man is that... A legend when he was... Yeah. A big... Well, he was the fourth front of that campaign alongside Nelson Mandela, to make that change. He was when it served. Amazing, yeah. Yeah, and he was the same. It was a very tricky country, you know. I mean, I got a job in a place called East London, where it was a very sort of poor white community. And they still had a white beach and a black beach and things like that. And it seemed the ones who were the poorer end of the white spectrum were the ones with the most problems about the reforms and things.

35:04And I worked on this bar where you would see... Oh, it's just... There was guns, there was knives. I don't know. I can't believe that I worked there for six months, but I remember coming in and seeing some guy just had his throat slashed and his head on the bar. And the other barmen had done it, who I was sharing the shifts with. And I was just sort of regarded as sort of... Pomi. Yeah. Pomi, get me my beer. But I did make friends... I had a great time there as well. I didn't say... I did make friends, obviously. And it was from a girl I met on the train who got me the job. And that's a lovely train ride from Jobberg down to the coast as well through the desert. But, yeah. Well, I mean, the next song is from that era. Yeah, so I was going to... One thing that I was going to say is that... On the bar, they would ask for this guy called Rod Riegers.

36:07And I'd never heard of him. Yeah. And I got to like him. And I came back to England and asked HMV. He got me Rod Riegers. They'd be like, never heard of him. Yeah. And everyone said, oh, he died on stage. And no one could check. Because no one had an internet. And years later, they found him, didn't they? Yeah, yeah. Now the documentary was amazing. Amazing, yeah. But like I say, it was someone who would never heard of it. It was actually... They had a big documentary... Still have a big documentary festival in Cheffield called Cheffield Dockfest. And the premiere of that documentary in the UK was at the Cheffield Dockfest. And we were talking to the guy that orchestrated the curator of the festival when he said, oh, I've got Rod Riegers. He's going to come and play. And we were going, he was Rod Riegers. And he was going, yeah. What do you mean you don't know Rod Riegers?

37:08He couldn't understand it. He was Australian fella. Oh, he was a popular Australian as well. As well, but mostly South Africa on it. So he was like, so this guy's going, oh God, I've built this fella. He's coming all the way from America and no one's heard of him. But in the end, it was an amazing documentary, an amazing, an amazing album. It was a real hit. And Rod Riegers played live in Cheffield that night. So I was like, wow. Now that must be over 10 years ago, longer. Now it must be 15 years ago. I probably love it longer when it first came out. Yeah. Anyway, let's play the song, guys. So it's Sugarman, Rod Riegers. Sugarman, won't you hurry? Because I'm tired of these scenes. For the blue corn, won't you bring back all those colors to my dreams?

38:16You know the magic ships you carry. Jumpers, coke, sweet marriage ain't. Sugarman, man of all spring, on a lonely dusty road. Lost my heart when I found it. It had turned to deadline home. Silver magic ships you carry. Jumpers, coke, sweet marriage ain't. Sugarman, you're the answer. That makes my questions disappear. Sugarman, because I'm weary of those double games ahead.

39:21Sugarman, Sugarman, Sugarman, Sugarman, Sugarman, She's a man, she's a man, she's a man She's a man, she's a man, she's a man She's a man, she's a man, she's a man She's a man, she's a man, she's a man

40:24She's so famous in South Africa And he's covered, it wasn't on a building site Yeah, and he didn't know he was famous in South Africa He was like, he was like, just like, giving up on music. He wasn't just famous, he was legendary, he was someone who had disappeared and he didn't know where he was, and thought he must be dead. And then he came back to life. He did, he did. So let's get back to you, Rich. I know you keep trying to not talk about you. I'll find in this review that you give, yeah, anything but talk about you, but so we've got to you feeling sad for Africa. And then, well, why did you leave South Africa? I was just there, and where did you go after that? Yeah, it was six months, which seemed, you know, long enough at the time and I thought, wow, I've, you know, that's, I'll come back and I'll do other stuff and I'll be changed and I'll be, I don't know, but my ticket was for six months and then I came back to Manchester and I thought, what the hell am I doing back here again?

41:26You know, it's sort of, you've got to find a job and you've got, you find yourself, like you feel different from other people that you're working with because you've been away since, you know, you've got other things in your head and it felt harder to fit back in. And after a year or two, it might have been two or three, but I thought, right, that's it, I'm 25, I'm getting old, right? Yeah, so yeah, no, you are, yeah. So I thought, right, I'll back up to the Lake District and I'll save every penny and I'll, and I worked really, I worked as a chef in a place in bonus, which is if anyone knows the Lake District, that's kind of the busiest part. And yeah, and I, yeah, saved up my money and Hong Kong kept coming up through in my life. I remember there's a guy who washed the dishes there who had been a music teacher in Hong Kong and I remember reading this Sunday supplement

42:28about Chris Patton being the last governor of Hong Kong. It just kept sort of, maybe it was in the news a bit. Yeah, it was. But yeah, I came back to Manchester one night to visit mum and I met a guy at the train station who I remembered and I said, hey, how are you? And he was a neighbour and he said, yeah, all right. He was a Colombian mancunian, by the way. OK, yes, so I can't do his accent. But anyway, he said, probably that's not to try. He said, I asked him about his family because of it. He said, oh, they've gone to Hong Kong and so is so and so and so and so and he's named all these people I used to know. He said, they've all gone to Hong Kong. And I was like, wow, they said, yeah, it's coming to the end of the British Empire there, but it handovers in seven or eight months away. This would be the end of 96. And I was like, I said, can I come?

43:28Yeah. And so four people had gone and then we were the next four. And we were all going to stay in this apartment together, eight of us in Hong Kong. Cool. Yeah. And you didn't have much of a pan of way you're going to work or I'll go and stay far or? No. No, I didn't at all. And I didn't even, you know, again, before the internet, all the new of Hong Kong was the skyscrapers. And they told me we would be staying on an island. We'd have to go to another island. So I thought, okay, it would be another island like Hong Kong with skyscrapers. But it wasn't. If anyone's got that, you know, wants to type on their keyboard, Lama Island, L-A-M-M-A Island, you'll see just how different it is and it from anything you would have imagined from Hong Kong. It was like this unbuilt up, hippie kind of, Elderado really sort of thing.

44:32And I couldn't believe it when I got there. Like I was exhausted from the flight. Left Manchester in the freezing cold January. And it was this beautiful, like, tropical day and this island and everyone having barbecues. And I just thought, wow. Sounds amazing, yeah? Sounds, this is all right. It's better than I thought. Yeah. And so you, well, you stayed, yeah? Yeah, so, yeah, we did. And there was so much work and things available, you know. You couldn't, we allowed to work as a British citizen, yeah, you allowed to. Yeah, straight away, you went to immigration and they remember them saying like, okay, then this is your ID card and you can enjoy the facilities of Hong Kong. They asked me what I did for a living. They said, why don't you try down there? Yeah, very helpful of you. And it was the last, there was still all British faces

45:32in the government positions, things. So this is, was it end of 96, you went then? January 97 and the handover was in the end of June. So we had six months of it. And what was it like when it actually handed over then? Well, just like in the lead up to it, everyone is just like trying to have as much fun as possible. Okay. You know, they know, they don't know what's gonna happen at the handover. Everyone's got these different opinions of what it'll be like, like, oh, there'll be really strict, it'll be like North Korea. No, no, no, it'll be like Singapore. They'll do it all, had these different views, but we didn't know, and a lot of people who'd been there for a long time were leaving. But for us who just got there, and I was like, no, I'm staying. You know, people would say, what are you gonna, I'm staying. Yeah, see what happens, you know. Well, let's have a record and then we'll come back to that. Right, so can we pick that up? Yeah. To say what? What was actually like after the after change?

46:33Yeah, so it was, it was so much fun. And I think this record, like, exactly sort of shows how much fun you would get up again every day somehow. I don't know how we did it, but it was great. Okay, it's up to them to jump on one bar. Let's have a dance to this one. The truth is, I thought it mattered, I thought the music mattered, but does it bother us? No compared to our people matter. Well, let's sing it, while we're with it. We'll be singing. I get knocked down, but I get out again. Look at everything goes, it beat me down. I get knocked down, but I get out again. You never gonna beat me down, I get knocked down. But I get up again, you never gonna beat me down.

47:35I get knocked down, but I get out again, you never gonna beat me down. This in the night away This in the night away It takes a whiskey drink, it takes a bottle of the drink It takes a long drink, it takes a cider drink It takes songs that remind you of the good times It takes the songs that remind you of the best times Oh Danny boy, Danny boy, Danny boy I get no doubt, but I get no doubt I get no doubt, but I get no doubt I get no doubt, but I get no doubt I get no doubt, but I get no doubt I get no doubt, but I get no doubt I get no doubt, but I get no doubt I get no doubt, but I get no doubt I get no doubt, but I get no doubt I get no doubt, but I get no doubt

49:06I think I did, actually. I mean, I was at a barming on the island bar of Lamar Island, and we did dance on tables and things were leading up to the handover. It felt a bit like the end of the world was coming, but at the same time it was like, let's have as much fun as it can before it happens. So people just join us, we friend Richard Lawler's telling about his life, so he lived in Hong Kong for many, many years. But he first went just a few months before the handover, so it was in British rule until June 97, you got there in January. So there must have been an amazing time to be there,

50:09so like say everyone's thinking, let's get our partners in before the Chinese take over. I mean it did feel like for once, I was in the right place at the right time, and I still look back on that year as the happiest, and a lot of other people who I know were there at the time look back on that year, it was like, wow, that was something else. But imagine so, I guess the June 97, and in my memory there was kind of a deal that the Chinese wouldn't be fully Chinese, it kind of politically in the way they were for a bit. So what was it like on that? Well, that next day, just out with art, and then we would have to do that. We woke up the next day, and everything was, you know, everything around you still look the same. It's like, oh, we're here. You're in China now. There's no troops marching down the street or anything. It's yeah, I mean it was it was eerie, but as we sort of woke up pretty late, I can remember that,

51:12but as we started to realise things haven't changed that much, it was very gradual really. Yeah, so I'm sorry Richard, we have only had time to rush, but just I want to get to the point and suppose what they have been protesting in more recent years about the Chinese government and things and what's your take on that or what have you seen on that? You know, that was really the worst time that I've experienced. That was when I really wanted to leave. I mean, I think those people, although I think they were very naive really, they were students, they had demands on the Chinese government, and you know, they were, and they, I remember going in shopping miles and things and seeing gangs of masked teenagers just smashing it to bits and the police didn't know what to do. We didn't know what to do. We were terrified. It went on all through 2019.

52:13It was terrifying. I was on a train that was being stoned and we were jam-packed and it, oh, it was like 9-11 some days. It was really scary. I didn't like it at all. I thought, as I say, I think it was very naive that they would, they would say, we demand independence and we demand this and that. I mean, come on, it's China. They're not going to do that for you. You know, all you're going to do is wind them up and make it more serious. And it is stricter now. They, I don't think it's, I'm happy to go back there. I think it's still a great place, but they will play the Chinese national anthem in schools and things because there's an English teacher and they have to do that. And they've taken away liberal studies and things. So it has changed it. It has made it, you know, yeah, it's made it stricter because it's, and it was at a difficult time because people have fell out with each other about their differences of opinions

53:18or some sort of studies beyond. Yeah, yeah. Now, no. Well, we're going to have to play your last song, but I just wanted to see what you're going to do these days. So you come back to England to look after your mom. So your mom's not so good. Yeah, mom's got vascular dementia. And yes, and so I've been learning quite a bit about that and watching the effects of it. And she's a happy lady. I mean, she's still physically healthy. She totals around five-ish in town. And yeah, I haven't spent much time with her. Obviously, from being a kid. And no, it's my time to look after her. And she will have to go into care. And that's a lot of a problem that a lot of people sort of face. And it's a tough decision when to do it because it's so expensive and, you know, and where to go. And we've just, my brother and I decided

54:20she might be happy to back up in Lancashire. Yeah, it's for you, brother. Manchester. Yeah. So mom still has fond memories of Lancashire. And yeah, it's marginally less expensive than the south. I've had a couple of stints. Thinking it might be like it was back in the day, but it wasn't quite. So do you think you go back to Hong Kong? Yes, so you've got a partner. Yeah, who's gone, say? Yeah, I was previously married to an English girl, but now I live with the, yeah, I've been with the Japanese lady for 20 years, called Nyoko. And she's there. And I will be going back. But I'll see you next week in Prague,

55:22which would be nice. Oh, that's nice. I don't have a break to meet Prague. And I can't believe I'll quick this hour's gone by. Yeah, it has gone very quick. We need another three hours. Well, we are going to go to the Irish triangle. I think we're going to do a two of the pubs. Right, exactly. We've got three hours. This is Kills Night, you say? Okay. Should we take our microphones? Yes, we've got a lot to talk about. So we'll carry on. It's been amazing. Thank you so much. What's your last song, Dan? Introduce your last song. Yeah, but I spend a lot of time on this Lama Island, and I've been over it hundreds of times, and there's a lot of little villages there. And when I've been traveling in Nepal or India, it's great to get to a little village in the mountains. And that's when I feel most at peace and trekking and hiking and what have you. And this just calms me down this song. It's very nice. So thanks so much, Richie. So it's a little village, Van Rausen. Very thank you. Thank you.

56:41And I'd love to be a town. Gathering you that we're from the city. It's going to bring it down. There's the lots of the silence. Hell in the evening. Then along cold summer nights. Hell in the voice of the silence. Hell in the evening. Then along cold summer nights. Tell me not to worry. There's nothing going to be all right. There's only two kinds of truth. Better let's get us straight from the start.

57:41There's only two kinds of truth. Let's get us straight from the start. There's a bucket of leaves. Very, very, very, very hard. . . . . Go the bell ringing, if I say singing soft and blue

58:46Go the bell ringing, watch it was singing soft and blue We are better mother, we'll be late in the snooze Bailing in the fires, just enough to magnetize the leaf Bailing in the fires, just enough to magnetize the leaf Go the bell ringing, watch it was singing soft and blue Bailing in the fires, just enough to magnetize the leaf

59:46They don't really live, they don't know what I'm gonna say