Current Government Printing Is Going to Collapse The Economy

0:00Hello, everyone. Welcome to VR. I see media your most trusted voice and metals and mining. I'm your host Darryl Thomas and today We have the pleasure of interviewing Jonathan Newman of the Mises Institute. How you doing today, Jonathan? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on the show Yes indeed, so you know, obviously love connecting with you all over at the Mises Institute and everything and so Let's just start just kind of giving the audience just say a brief introduction to To who you are and what role you play at Mises Sure. Yeah, so my name is Dr. Jonathan Newman I have a PhD in economics from Auburn University, which is just right across the street from us here at the Mises Institute And my role here is as a research fellow so I write papers for academic journals I write for our website and I speak at our conferences and events We have student Events like Mises University and Rothbard Graduate Seminar, which I give some lectures And so I'm I'm here as one of the academics on the on the team here at the Mises Institute

1:01The Mises Institute is an educational organization So we are our mission is to teach and promote Austrian economics That's what that's what we want to see we want people to read Murray Rothbard and Ludwig von Mises Karl Manger We want them to read these guys because we think that they're right about economics We think that they're right about The way to view the world and the way the economy works And so that's that's really our guiding mission and everything that we do is is centered on that Yeah, yeah, for sure And this this all comes back to sound money as well sound money principles and things of that nature and those of us that have been Buying gold buying silver for a long time like we're buying it for a reason right and that reason is often Yeah, we know that money is being printed and they cannot print sound money. They cannot print real money And so I'm glad that have you on the show and I'm glad to hear that you all are continuing that good work And such let's just get a brief overview of how are you looking at things in the US economy right now

2:04And regards to the Fed You know, obviously the national debt just hit 39 trillion and such deficits are Beloning we also have an increase in military spending or proposal to increase military spending and so kerosene your thoughts on all that Yes, so I think that the the main problem is government spending and as you said that there's this proposal to increase government spending I think I see me a defense spending up to $1.5 trillion just this like outrageous numbers of like a 40% increase of what it is currently and it's currently outrageous And so that's the main problem while we can look at debts and deficits and of course, you know the the debt number is huge You said 39 trillion dollars the real problem is is the level of government spending And the reason why I think that is because it's it's the spending that causes the spending in excess of taxes that causes deficits and accumulated deficits result in debt So the the only the reason why we would look at debt and say that this is bad. This is a huge number

3:10It's unsustainable is because it's a reflection of of how much the government is spending And the reason why why we would say that government spending is a bad thing is because it's not subject to the profit and loss test of the market So in the private market economy a business lives and dies by by the way that it treats consumers and serves consumers So if a business takes some factors of production And purchases them at one price and then they sell something to consumers At at a price that consumers are willing to pay and that price justifies its cost then the business earns a profit And we can say that those resources that were used in production Were used beneficially. So like that's that's the way consumers wanted those resources to be used So the profits indicate that but in the case of government spending There's this disconnect what what the government collects It's it's revenues is not associated with you know some voluntary payment for the services provided by Government so what the government collects is is taxes which are they're taking coercively

4:11Which means you so I don't mean I don't mean to use coercively in like a morally negative sense although I do think that is it is you know morally wrong to you know Take things from people like theft But I just mean it in like a matter of fact, you know objective sort of ways since there's no connection between What people are paying in taxes To the services that they're receiving from government it means that all government spending is is destined to be a waste It means that what government spends money on is it's not going to be in line with what consumers want That's the issue and the the problems that there are these terrible incentives in which governments Governments and their biocracies and the agencies In large they get bigger and bigger so no matter whether they fail their goals or if they succeed In achieving their whatever stated goals that they have That they're they just always get bigger and bigger now one thing that allows government spending to get bigger and bigger

5:11And allows deficits to increase Consistently and therefore debts to to increase consistently Is the fact that we have a money printer so the federal reserve is is there as a ready buyer of the US government's debt And it buys that debt with newly printed money So what that means is the government is able to Do all the spending without inflicting All of the pain in the form of you know regular taxes on the people so they collect some in taxes, but then they The finance the rest with this subtle form of taxation i.e. monetary inflation so they increase the money supply And so we pay for this increased government spending in the form of you know higher prices at the grocery store higher prices Of the gas pump and so on so so you were asking about my view on you know debts and deficits and spending and and that's that's how I think about those things Okay, so thanks for sharing that perspective and I'm curious in your thoughts on so like when this administration

6:14um, you know first came in you know, there was talk about dread of the swamp Um, what we've been finding is like there's more swap creatures added to the swamp Uh, we hit here. We fact there was talk about you know, don't cut Expending but really that spending just got replaced with other spending um You know, we that you know politicians like christie norm and such uh said to have spent like you know hundreds of thousands of dollars on like ads The stuff, you know, so like there's corruption that's still taking place and it's good that you know I guess folks that are that aren't being corrupt in that way are getting out of there um, but i'm curious in your thoughts on You know When i listened to like lidwig van mises he's he talks about how The uh these politicians are aiming to Uh serve their constituents In their constituents doesn't necessarily mean it's the average people right and so um

7:17Could you speak to how that plays into this you know how um these different parties come in and they want to serve their constituents And their constituents may not necessarily they may benefit from policies or such in one way which is um You know, which doesn't benefit you know the the people on the other side of it as well and so just curious in your thoughts about Yeah, so you're absolutely right Trump campaigned on draining the swamp. He campaigned on no new wars Uh, he campaigned with Elon Musk promising you know trillions of dollars of spending cuts with With uh that new uh program and it's in my view it's been a very big disappointment Maybe a few wins here and there but overall just a huge disappointment um Especially especially in my view with the the war in Iran just like a complete A rejection of of what he promised in his campaign and Completely demolished the the coalition that he built to get elected

8:18That's my own two cents. That's not really that's not really you know austrian economics It's just that's just my own way of thinking about it But in terms in terms of what you're talking about with uh with the way politicians campaign and Serving their constituents you're bringing up some really important points that that have been brought up in public choice theory Uh, which is that politicians don't necessarily uh Act in a way that reflects what they're What the people who elected them want And there's a few reasons for that what one reason is that voters are are rationally ignorant So uh this sort of seems like a contradiction in terms like what does it mean to be rationally ignorant But the idea there is that voters realize that they don't really have that much of an impact on elections Which means if they don't have that much of an impact and it's somewhat costly to to become informed and then vote On a particular you know policy or politician Then the costs outweigh the benefits in in terms of becoming informed and so people just they just don't learn about what

9:19What policies uh will do what pop what politicians are promising to do and what the What the effects of that will be so vote voters are are uninformed And for and for like a reason that's built into the system and so that's that's a problem But in other issues that we have special interests so like there are some like small groups Who do who can get some concentrated benefits when certain policies are enacted like even though I can say this war in Iran is is a disaster Uh, there are certainly some groups who who benefit as a result of that so like there are certain people who are lobbying for that war Either for their own political interests or for like financial interests like you can think about defense contractors They would benefit So these these are the people who will be the most vocal and advocating for certain policies and for certain politicians to be elected And that explains why politicians sometimes they campaign one way so they can get the the largest number of votes And you know swing that median voter their direction

10:20But then they'll enact policies that are more in line with these special interest groups that represent a minority perspective not necessarily Uh the majority so so you're you're absolutely right and you're you're getting into some some like some well-established concepts and public choice theory Yeah, yeah, you know, and and I think you know One of the things that you know, I bring that up in like however lazy to even you know economics as such is It's that um You know, not everyone's invested in military the uh contracts right our defense spending sort of defense stocks um You know, and then uh, we we had to dial touted at 50k You know, oh, you know americans retirement portfolios or are performing well and such and then you know Then and the market just starts to crater what's once we get in the conflict with Iran I mean gold or silver sold off and came under suppressor to and then now we're we're at the um It's like we're we're at the mercy of whether

11:20DJT wants to enact a ceasefire or or whether whether one moment he's feeling good about it and he wants to negotiate or next moment He wants to take out a whole civilization Right, and this is this is impacting um The portfolios of many people And so some people are even like you know, finding their edge and like okay, we need to be liquid and such And a lot of this has to do with you know, many of these lobbyist groups that are like um You know funding uh the um these politicians to advocate for these policies or advocate for This conflict because they benefit in some way shaped form So they they are a minority constituent that provides a huge amount of capital to some of these campaigns to such and so You know, it's kind of like for me. It's it's been I've been having a grim outlook. I've been trying to like I've been trying to like have a positive outlook

12:22But man, it's it's hard to find it in and uh and this political realm and how it impacts uh the The wealth and and the um the the finances of many people Yeah, I I totally understand you know, having this sort of grim outlook is something that we have to fight against to every day Uh one thing that helps me uh, you know besides my my faith is but I I understand that That the ideas that that I believe in are true. It's I mean, it's not something that It's not something that I believe in and and promote simply because like it would You know, it provides me some sort of benefit like in the same way that you know lobbying for some sort of policy would allow Uh would get the government to to subsidize my industry or something like that So I know the the reason why I espouse Austrian economics and I talk about the effects of government spending the effects of war Public choice issues the the problems with the federal reserve the reason I espouse these ideas is because I think they're true

13:22I think it's the truth so I mean, that's you know a source of hope now one one thing that uh you mentioned is uh the the issue with these Special benefits for like small groups like certain certain interests Have have these benefits that flow towards them and this This is something that Henry Haslet brought up in his book economics of one lesson So he was talking he started off this book talking about how the economics is plagued by more fallacies than in the other field of study And he was trying to understand or or talk about why Why that is the case so you don't so like if you open up, you know the Wall Street Journal, New York Times You'll see one economist saying one thing you'll see another economist saying something else You'll you'll like the exact opposite sometimes you so there's a lot of debate a lot of bickering Among economists right so so what explains that because you don't really see that in other fields at least not as much So it's not like there's you know Arguments over the fundamentals of physics

14:25At least not to the extent that there is about the fundamentals of economics among economists And so what Haslet pointed out is that well one issue with economics is that You can uh if you argue in favor of some sort some policy that can provide Benefits to one particular group and he says that the art of economics is Considering the effect of the policy not just in the short run but also in the long run And not just the effects on one particular group But the effect of that policy were event on all groups right so that's what it takes to do good economics That's what it takes to To do economics in the right way according to Haslet is that you can't just consider the impact on one particular group You have to consider the impact on on everyone Georgian is team a 16 year barrack employee building some of the largest mining operations on the planet We started a drill campaign from the drill campaign moving into a full engineering report and study We came out with our pre feasibility study in

15:252021 and it showed him really impressive economic case for advancing the project We'll have final definitive feasibility out in December of this year So in the space of four years fully engineered fully permitted U.S. Goldcore is a near-term low-cost gold producer in Wyoming to learn more get a U.S. Goldcore.com And your research the federal reserve so like I think this upcoming month Drawing Powell is I think his term as president is up or chair is up or something like that And then there was a lot of Talk about wall are coming in and and you know and and what what kind of impacts is that gonna have and such and so This curious and like what What are you for seeing like with the federal reserves? They they seem pretty quiet right now I mean obviously it seems like they're watching the war And whatnot what impacts that can happen from that inflationary impact stack flationary impacts

16:28If such or so just curious in your thoughts on the fit Yeah, the Fed definitely wants to be quiet. They want to be in the background They do not want all of the eyes Eyes focused on them And and the reason why is is because they they want to be boring They don't want you know a lot of people looking into what they're doing They don't want a lot of people You know making huge bets on on some minor change in interest rates the the Fed wants to be in the background and What one thing that's been you know very fun to watch very entertaining like watching a movie almost is watching all of this political theater Between Trump and Powell where you know Trump is threatening to fire Powell Trump is saying it There's also from his administration. There's lawsuits against Lisa cook who's a Fed official actually a criminal case against Jay Powell based on some statements that he made about the the Fed renovation Fed building renovation project You know of course a lot of this is couched in terms as in terms of a threat against the Fed's independence

17:30In my view on that is that the Fed's independence is a complete myth that the Fed is not independence at all It's totally dependent on what the government wants it to do and the best evidence for this is just to watch what the Fed does Whenever there's any sort of crisis any sort of economic crisis a war any like covid crisis The the federal government the presidential administration wants to issue a bunch of stimulus checks or do a bunch of infrastructure spending Or bailout banks and so this requires a ton of new spending Which is not financed by taxes which means that they have to borrow And they know that they they can't borrow that much without causing interest rates to skyrocket And so they have to rely on the Fed as a money printer Right the Fed the Fed is there as a money as a money printer to back up whatever the government wants to do So the idea that there's this like wall of separation There's this like that the government is doing one thing and then there's this separate entity We call the Federal Reserve that's just you know unbiasedly pursuing its dual mandate

18:34It's it's completely bogus the Fed is there the way that we should think about what the Fed is and what it does is It is a money printer for the federal government That's how we should think about it which means it's not independence at all So the way the way that I see the All of the drama it's meeting Trump and Powell is in that light. It's like they're they're pretending like there's you know some sort of sacred independence that That needs to be maintained But it's a complete myth and so it's just sort of fun to watch Once you once you really understand what the Fed is it's fun to watch all the the political theater that goes along with it They but in terms in terms of the future. So you're talking about a new Fed chair coming in I don't really know what to expect. I mean since Trump appointed him I expect that he'll he'll probably be more expansionary than Powell would otherwise be So Trump wants Trump wants to you know boost the numbers get GDP to go up get spinning to increase get employment to increase Maybe counteract some of the effects of the tariffs and the war in Iran

19:36So I'm we could probably expect that sort of thing but but who knows it just it just sort of depends on one of those things It's impossible to predict. I think I said wallet early. I think it's wash wash. Don't like that. Yeah, Kevin Warshishup So Kirsten you thoughts on like okay, so there's this illusion of independence and I know that you know There's also like you have these you know liberals or conservatives and you you may have a Fed governor who's on the more Liberal side of things or someone who's on the more a conservative side and such and and then you have these kind of toxic um It's in civil kind of back and forth with the you know on this political spectrum and you know kind of wondering like how does that play into this? I mean because ultimately like when there's a crisis You do see that the Fed will come to the to the I mean Powell was under Trump's first administration when COVID hit

20:39You know fair came to to bell out the marks. They printed trillions and Trump signed his names on the checks All right same thing Biden came in you know the Fed was still printing before they before they started hiking rates and such Um, and so they they supported both parties or whatnot, but um sometimes there seems like this just kind of like um Uh toxic conflict when it comes to um being either diplomatic or or civil and in in politics or such and and It seems like that's been driving some some weird conflict on on the on the main stage Yeah, I the way I do that is it's uh, it's just a superficial drama And like you said it's is like just look at what the Fed does whenever there's a crisis So what the Fed does is it's there to to finance the government's deficits and it will always do that so the way the way that I think about The like the personal conflict between like Trump and Powell for example is that Trump is using this as a is a political tool or political strategy

21:46So that when there is some sort of you know crisis some sort of economic crisis like a recession or stock market crash something like that Then Trump will be able to point at Powell and blame him for for those problems as opposed to accepting the blame himself Now I don't really think you know What's really interesting is that whenever the economy is doing great Uh the Fed and the president will take all of the credit for that even though they have they have nothing to do with it Except for just like getting out of the way that like the way that the way that you get economic growth is by letting entrepreneurs do what they do best Which is guessing consumer demands and arranging factors of production innovating making do things that consumers want that's how we get economic growth Notice that in that description the president and the Fed share don't appear at all So the only thing that they can do to promote economic growth is just to get out of the way but of course when we have Economic growth or period of no huge business cycles or financial crises

22:46Then they'll take all the credit But then once once things go bad once you have a financial crisis or a recession Then there's a bunch of finger pointing like all it's the Fed's fault. Oh, it's the president's fault or oh Like the of course the Fed share would never say it's the president's fault He would never say in those terms, but he'll say things like the debt is on an unsustainable path or These these forces combined to to to create this situation I think I'm paraphrasing Milton Friedman at this point these forces combined to make this terrible situation And we're doing the best we can to respond to it But notice that there's no there's no acceptance of blame when that sort of thing happens So to get back to your to your question That's how I view these sorts of conflicts. It's like a preparation It's like you know setting down a roadmap for for later on when when there is a crisis when there is a recession Trump can say I see I told you guys Powell is terrible or it's all the Fed's fault. That sort of thing Yeah, yeah Yeah, I could definitely see that see that happening So and one of your research speeches you talked about um how to like into fit

23:51um And There was a lot of uh, uh, so when when these criminal charges came out against roll pile Uh, there were some folks that were coming out saying yeah end of it You know, uh as in like they were in support of um the weaponization of the dlj Uh, against the federal reserve and such and so um I mean what what kind of impacts could that have on on uh like what what are the pros and cons of that? I imagine like There's some some pros for the long term, especially when we're talking about bailing out banks and things of that nature right We're just big institutions get yeah huge bellouts in the average citizen doesn't get anything right um You know, I imagine that you know, that's that's a huge plus, but you know I also think that you know, there may be some carnage in in the process of that as well And so just curious in your thoughts on like uh, when folks say in the Fed uh, what does that look like Yeah, there there definitely would be some some short-term carnage, but um

24:55It's carnage that we should be Delighted to see and the reason why we should want to see that sort of short-term carnage is because it's based on an unwinding of Artificial stimulus from the Fed's existence. So when when you have a money printer There's going to be localized benefits to the sectors that are closest to the money spigot So this is something that uh, that an economist by the name of Richard Cantillon talked about way back in the 1700s So whenever there's an increase in the money supply That increase in the money supply does not come into the economy evenly It doesn't go into everybody's pocketbooks at the same time right so there's not some sort of like proportional Increased in everybody's money when there's an increase in the money supply Know what happens is that it comes into the economy at a particular point So in the case of the Federal Reserve when they print money and they purchase uh, securities from you know big financial institutions that new money enters the economy through these big Financial institutions and so they're the first ones to benefit they had they have

25:58higher income than they otherwise would have they can pay higher prices than they otherwise would be able to And so they can acquire real assets Future future goods cash flows that come to them into the future They can do that before prices increase generally So when they when they spend the money so they bit up the prices of the things that they purchase Then the people who receive that money by selling to those big financial institutions so that could be you know borrowers Because a lot of these big financial institutions are heavily involved in credit markets So then borrowers are able to get the money and so they can use it to bit up things like houses Bit up prices of commercial real estate bit up prices of the various things that Same thing would apply to like consumer loans people can bid up the prices of consumer goods And so the idea that I'm trying to convey here is that there's like a rippling out effect The money comes into the economy through a particular point and then there's localized benefits The closer you are to the money's bigot the closer you are to where that new money is coming in the better off you are

27:00The more benefits you receive and as people on the outskirts who are on fixed incomes or they're like the last ones to receive the new money And so they have to start paying all these higher prices that have been bit up by others in the chain earlier in the chain And so they're worse off as a result so they actually see real resources Flow away from them and towards the center where the money is coming in Okay, so to bring this back to what we were talking about what is what does that mean? It means that these sectors that are closest to the Fed Closes to the money's bigot. They're artificially big So that's going to be like finance insurance real estate A lot of people over the past you know a few decades have talked about financialization And I think that is a is a 100% of consequence of money printing But people also talk about income and wealth inequality and while I think that like any Healthy economy is going to have some level of income inequality That can certainly be exacerbated by money printing and so if you've got tons and tons of money printing

28:04It means that these sectors and all this income inequality that's exacerbated by money printing is you know It's on it's put on steroids. It's it's huge And so what does what does that mean? So if you in the Fed Then you're going to cause a lot of damage to those sectors and businesses that have become dependent on money printing to survive So so those big financial institutions they only survive at the size that they are Because they just get this steady flow of new money being pumped into the economy And so yes, there would be some short-term carnage But that carnage is something that we desperately need if we want to economize resources If we want if we want like a healthy-sized financial sector if we want Healthy sustainable real estate sector where we don't see housing prices doing go doing ups and downs all the time Then we should want those sorts of things to be subject to An unhappard market economy that's not that's not being inflicted upon by money printing

29:08Okay, so there's the short-term carnage The long-term gain is huge totally worth it the long-term gain is sustainable economic growth So we wouldn't have business cycles all the time we wouldn't have this recurring theme of financial crises We would have sustainable smooth economic growth there would be an incentive to save right so when when you're in a An environment with consistent price inflation like the Fed actually targets two percent price inflation When you're in that sort of environment There's not as much of an incentive to save your your incentive is to invest your incentive is to play this stock market Casino game right as opposed to setting aside money for retirement But if there were if there was more stability in prices or even you know god forbid You know some price deflation where things are getting cheaper over time Then there's much more of an incentive to save which means we get more capital accumulation We get healthier stronger economic growth people are better off. There's all sorts of wonderful benefits when

30:12When when people live in that sort of environment as opposed to one where we have consistent Money printing and price inflation. So in my view we should definitely in the Fed There would be some short-term carnage, but it's carnage that we should relish It's carnage that we should hope for and the long-term gains are absolutely worth it Yeah, I mean, you know with your background. I think it'll be good to like ask you this question. So I was I'm recently reading the while and currently almost done reading the book 1929 by Andrew Ross Sorkin and he talks about You know because I want to understand like okay. What what actually happened in 1929? So obviously we had like Calvin Coolidge and who was you know, I like Calvin Coolidge You know, it seemed like he was just like hands off like a government hands off right um, and You know, we had a boom during that time and then Herbert Hoover came in as such and there was like this big battle between the markets and the Fed

31:16and the Fed was looking to You know, raise interest rates to prevent like speculation and such and then the the markets would like know if you do that You're gonna call the crisis and such and you had all these speculators in the market and it's so like when we look at like those types of You know, obviously that's a huge event, right? And you had a lot of people burying on margin and average people on margin borrowing to invest and speculate and such and so it was massive, right? But just thinking about that as like Because you do have these you know capital cycles. You do have these these times where Yeah, these bones and busts and arguably these are healthy right where you you get more speculation and you have to wash it out and kind of reset um So I'm curious in your thoughts on like that time period like you know when when you had The Federal Reserve where like okay, we need to prevent speculation so that we don't have this crisis

32:18And then you had um the markets who were like nodes to fed fed intervened We're gonna we're gonna have a crisis and so I'm just curious in your thoughts on those So the way our students think about business cycles is is through this lens you're right there There is a healthy aspect of the business cycle But the healthy component the healthy part of the business cycle is the correction phase as you mentioned Uh, so during during a boom phase of the business cycle which is triggered by artificially low interest rate So so when the fed or when fractional reserve banks are increasing the supply of credit and that credit is extended Beyond the supply of real savings so so you have People people set aside money. They're willing to lend a certain amount so that's that's like a healthy supply of savings That the businesses can then use to expand by new factors of production Produce things that consumers want but when you when you increase the supply of credit beyond what people have Have really set aside then you cause businesses to

33:21Start all of these projects that are not backed by real savings So you get businesses you entrepreneur starting projects that are longer term their risk year requires more capital investment more R&D So these longer production projects that were only started because interest rates were artificially low they were not started because There was like an actual supply of real savings there So that's in the Austrian view that's what starts the business cycle and and so what do we get we get a boom We get an increase in employment. We get an increase in consumption spending increase in investment spending Everything looks great gdp goes up unemployment rate goes down stock market is reaching new highs Um, it looks like everything is wonderful new businesses are being started But then what happens is there's a reckoning and that reckoning is something that's like built into the process itself There's not there's not enough real capital available a real labor. There's not there's not enough, you know Resources to actually complete those projects

34:21So since the projects were started not based on a real setting aside of of Resources if it was based on artificial credit. It means that they can't be completed. So we actually run into a The a scarcity problem like there's just not enough resources to complete all those projects So you see the cost of production go up you see the demand isn't really there people actually didn't set aside the money to to demand the things that Would eventually be produced and so all those projects had to be abandoned So entrepreneurs liquidate their projects they layoff workers sell their land sell their factory or they's just you know Sit with not being used until they can hopefully find somebody who's willing to purchase it And so and so we you get a big decline in production. You get a big spike in the unemployment rate Stock market declines crashes Banks fail if they were the ones that overextended the credit to begin with So that that's how Austrians view the business cycle and Murray Rothbard

35:23So after you finish reading sorgans 1929 I recommend you read America's Great Depression by Murray Rothbard What he does is he presents this theory in chapter one But then he applies it to the Great Depression and he shows that there was this expansion of credit during the 1920s And and so we got a crash in 29 and then Hoover and then after Hoover we had FDR They employed all of the wrong sorts of policies that resulted in this recession turning into the Great Depression So what they did in particular was they instituted these huge New government agencies that were controlling wages and controlling controlling prices They were encouraging farmers to destroy their crops and destroy their livestock So because they were trying to influence prices in a certain way And so they were doing all these you know terrible policies that were preventing the real correction from happening They're preventing the market from actually wiping out liquidating the malinvested resources And then finding allowing entrepreneurs to find new productive and profitable ways to use those resources

36:27So I highly recommend that book but that but that's how Austrians look at 1929 and the Great Depression I got that book on my audio book list. I think it's like 20 hours or something I got to put my uh maybe maybe put it on at the gym or something and uh lead Dissected one hour at a time Well one recommendation I have because you know that is that's a big commitment But one recommendation is you can look at lectures from Mises University So I know people like Roger Garrison and Robert P. Murphy have given lectures on On the Austrian view of the Great Depression. So you might check there those who like that's like a 45 or 15 minute chunk is supposed to 20 hours Yeah, for sure So I mean that that makes a lot of sense because now when we look at Since 2008, right? I mean the Fed came in money printers galore and We started QE quantitative easing to prevent the market from collapsing so it was more like government intervention and then now we have

37:33This kind of where it seems like we're in this weird dynamic where if you know the markets Go down, you know a certain amount or or a certain percentage That the Fed has to come in and rescue the markets like I mean you now you got You know so much leverage built up in the system. You have so much you know People's retirement portfolios are on the line and such and so like you know and so some so there there's many many many People that I follow in the space that that talk about you know, okay the the big print or Anytime something that some crisis happens defense going to come to the rescue and so it seems like We're kind of in this in this uh this the same dynamic as as back in like 1929 where you know the government came in and Implement these policies to keep to try to keep the market from flushing out

38:34Yeah, you're right. There's a reason why Austrians called the business cycle as opposed to the The boom bust event that happens one time and the reason why is because what happens? What happens do the way government's respond during the bust When when we should allow this liquidation correction phase to complete what the way government responds is with additional government spending A lot of it deficit finance which means the Fed is going to Use it's going to rev up the money printer But as you said we we get things like quantitative easing we get bank bailouts And so that introduces a bunch of moral hazard into the banking system And also it also we get you know, huge increases in the supply of credit Backed by new money printing which causes the problem that caused the problem in the first place, right? So so the reason reason we call it a business cycle as opposed to like a one time thing that occurs Is because the way the government responds to a recession actually sets the stage for another crisis and another business cycle

39:35On down the road and it's it's a terrible It's terrible, you know downward spiral to be in Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's very enlightening And appreciate you joining me for having a conversation Is that so dr newman where can folks Connect with some of the content you all are putting out you all are doing a lot of work at me sis and Want to make sure we highlight that Yeah, so I recommend that your viewers check out our website at missus.org MISES.org We have events around the country so you can go to our events page to see what we've got coming up We've got events in California Oklahoma and North Carolina coming up this year But we also if you're a student If you're an undergraduate student, I highly recommend you check out missus university for graduate students We have Rothbard graduate seminar But suppose you're not a student or you can't come to one of our events our website has you know a huge amount of resources So we have all books written by Rothbard and missus all all these great authors in the Austrian tradition

40:38But also we have commentary on current events. So we've got um people like Connor O'Keefe who are that he writes an article every week about The the big thing that's happening in the world or in the US and so it's it's a great resource for for people to check out And you can check out my articles there as well. So thank you so much for having me Yes indeed. Yeah, definitely got to have you back sometime and everything you all be sure to subscribe and let out your support Let out these conversations just to see how And understand see and learn and understand how like and you know How does all of these markets and such come together and what's the glue that holds it together and such and what order to underline problems And so I'm glad to discuss that today You know with the federal reserve and in these politicians would be in the problem To a lot of the things that we're seeing today And so I appreciate you dr. Newman and you all be sure to hit the subscribe button if you haven't yet. Thank you all for watching