Corrected 784: Pres Reinig with Insights from USDF Convention, Dr. Manfredi Talks Endocrine Disease, New Book Club - The Dressage Radio Show

0:00You are listening to The Horse Radio Network, part of the Equine Network family. This is episode 784 of the Dressage Radio Show on The Horse Radio Network brought to you by Kentucky Performance Products. The Dressage Radio Show is the official podcast of the United States Dressage Federation. On today's show, Megan and I talk about the USDF Convention and our Special Book Club edition packed with Education Insight Meaningful Conversation from across the Dressage community. We catch up with USDF President Kevin Rennick, who shares updates on the convention and offers a look ahead of what's coming up for USDF in 2026 and beyond, including key incentives in future direction of the organization. To wrap up that episode, we sit down with Dr. Jane Manfredi for an important conversation on our talk about endocrine disease and the Equine Athlete at the USDF Convention.

1:01Dr. Manfredi breaks down how hormone health impacts performance, longevity, and overall well-being, offering valuable insights for horses, riders, trainers, and owners alike. This episode brings together Education, Leadership, and Horse Health from the heart of the USDF Convention. Welcome to The Dressage Radio Show. This is Reese Coffler's Stand Field in Georgetown, Kentucky. And I am Megan McIsaac from Oregon, Wisconsin, and you're listening to The Dressage Radio Show. Hi, Megan, how are you? I'm great. How are you? Did you survive convention? I am also great. Yes, because you were here, everybody, Megan came and joined me. She stayed in our little house, so we had so much fun.

2:04And you were here for two nights, and what did you think? That was your first convention, right? No. I've been to like 20 of them. Oh, but sorry. No, no. It's okay. It was like 10 years ago. Well, last year for Book Club 2. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was my second year with Book Club. And I have to say, it was awesome. Beth, bomber, it's book, was really great. It was fun to meet Beth, and I wasn't nervous. Yeah. I know. Well, after we've done all the things, you know, we're pretty ready to rumble. And it was so fun. But that's the fun part about being in person, and when we get to talk to the authors, in convention is really cool. I mean, I'm very lucky, obviously, that it's in town, but all horse people understand that sometimes being in town is actually harder than us. You know, when you're out of town, you're like, well, I can't worry about the dog and night check and all the things it's taken care of. But no, but it was so much fun. And Megan, you and I, should we tell our secret?

3:06I think we should. Yeah. I'm not. So Megan and I, we didn't really, other than cheering for, we had friends that were getting medals. We decided to go see Andrea Bacheli on Saturday night instead of the, we didn't go to the awards banquet. We cheered with everybody who was getting awards that we saw, but that was really special. I will always remember that concert. I have to say it was one of my top. I, yes, there were people weeping. We had like the problem behind us. I was like, is she okay? Yeah. And it was so much fun to spend time with you, because I have known you for like 25 years. And every time we spend time together, it has always been a horse event, which is a convention and we're obsessed with horses, but it's like important for horse people to do other things. And it was just such a beautiful night, beautiful friendship, and I just can't thank you enough. Oh my gosh. No, I mean, truly, that is, I mean, everybody knows, knows when Megan was, was a good friend

4:10of ours, and Phillip and I, and you know, that was when, when Megan came on, it was so special, because I needed your support, and, but to be able to like, it just deepens our friendship. Like, we, we really, to put on the show, like, we're so lucky, because we get to talk to so many cool people and do so many cool things, but we become even closer, because we talk all the, like, we're constantly having a running conversation. Mm-hmm. So it was so fun just to take our friendship out, and, and I agree. I think it's so important to get out, and I have to be honest, my grandma loved Bacheli. So I had heard him as a kiddo, so it like meant so much to me with my grandma, and then I remember I was laughing, I remember I took a music appreciation class in high school. Yeah, and I remember being, like, literally one of my favorite classes ever, and I was sitting in, in the concert, and you could just, you just had to appreciate it. It was just incredible.

5:11So that was so fun, I think it was a really special night for us. It was for me, and if anyone gets an opportunity, go see him live. It's like watching top Olympic riders. I mean, it's just so beautiful. I almost wanted to eat myself. It was just beautiful. So go do it. Go do other things. It was incredible. It was so cool. It was so cool. Well, on that note, I mean, it was so holiday. I mean, it was, it was actually quite cold in Lexington, it was cold everywhere in everybody. I feel you. It was negative one here on I texted Megan. I was like, I'm not built for this. This is not working for me. And you leave tomorrow, right? I do. I am heading south to Wellington. So I'm really looking forward to, so we'll have a sunny Christmas this year. We decided we were going to do that, which is great. And I get to kind of also be there. My husband will join me and we'll get the horses settled. And I am kind of looking forward to, it's been a really busy fall.

6:11And so I'm looking forward to just a little downtime in the sunshine, taking our dog to the beach. He loves that so much, which is cool. So what do you guys do? What do we do? We still have a bar. I know. I was like, well, I'm going to pack for California. I've started, like, it usually takes me a month, but it's all the last odds and ends. And then we do our own chores. AV and I, my fiance will do chores and hang out with the horses. And then we'll spend time with mom and see. And we go over to very, very close friends of ours for dinner. And it'll just be nice not to see people. That sounds so horrible, but you're failing. Yeah. I just need to recharge my energy. We don't have a lot of families, so it'll just be really quiet. And then we head out for California and I'm so, I'm so ready.

7:12I think you and I are ready for some training this winter. I feel the same. Like I'm just ready to kind of, yeah, I mean, I'm excited to see, I'm already getting texts from my Florida people like, when you coming, can we have less in this week? Which I love, you know, it's similar, but a lot of them are year round, but they've been in Florida for a month or two, so they're ready for some learning. And yeah, I have one of my, Lauren White, shout out to Lauren. She's one of my barn daughters. She's going to drive with me and help me get down there and get the horses settled. And Carly Ward would give my assistant a shout out. She, I mean, that's the thing when you do go, it is a whole team effort. And you really have a good team and I have a great team this year and I'm so thankful for that. And which is really cool. So yeah, I am really looking forward to it. But we wanted to talk a little bit about virtual lessons because Megan and I teach them were available to teach virtual lessons. But there was a great article in the convention in connections that we wanted to talk about

8:13virtual lessons because that has been a godsend for my students that are in Kentucky. You know, it's kind of like actually I teach my Florida students in the summer and I teach them at like 6.30 a.m., so I usually put my head out at 8.15 and I've already gotten to do lessons in or whatever. Wow. Which is so cool. But you also teach a lot virtually, don't you? I do. And well, more so when I go to California because I still teach my clients here in Wisconsin, it's really fun to tell people when I'm in California, I'm teaching in Wisconsin and they're like, wait a minute, how are you going to do that? Yeah. So tell us some tips on how you guys set up your system. So in my arena, you have to have Wi-Fi. So we have, that was a little difficult. But I have an AB guy and he, he installed, I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I'm just going to say it's like a remote thing and brought Wi-Fi into the arena.

9:18And then I have a Google security camera that stays there year round at the letter C. And so then that's also how I get lessons throughout the year from my coach once a week. And so I just call my students and they have a Bluetooth headset and I highly recommend not the one that you stick in your ear, well, it, you stick it in your ear and you put it around your ear, not a, um, what are those little ear buds? They fall out. Yeah. So I can see you on my, and I recommend, the first year I did it, I did it off my cell phone. Yeah. Oh my gosh. The card. You'll go blind. So, um, get an iPad, um, the iPad can also actually, um, you can put it on your TV. So you're not going to go blind and I can see my arena. The hardest thing though, I find Reese is depth perception. Yes.

10:18I find like, it's important to know the student, um, and your arena, if you can, sometimes you can't. Yeah. And it's, it's a short term, you know, mine's only three months, so I know what to look for. But like, are they really doing good circles or corners? I mean, I don't really know. Yeah. Yeah. I find it too. Like, I can't, I can't pick up the cues on the horse. So if the horse is breathing hard or I can hear the students, so I know if they're breathing hard. They do tell people, like, please let me know if you need a break. Like, you know, because I can't pick up on those cues through the phone or through my computer. Yeah. I would totally agree. Like, tack, tack. That's a hard one. That's a hard one. For me, I do have, um, assistant instructors, the large majority that I'm teaching. So that way they're on the ground and they can see, um, you know, because another thing is safety. So if you're teaching someone and they're alone, yeah, I'm not there. I think that's the biggest downfall in teaching virtual.

11:21Yes. You want to make sure like you have their emergency contact information. So that way, if they truly are alone, but generally at my farm, no one's ever alone, um, that you, you can catch that. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And I think if you are alone, you need to have that, that this actually happened to a friend of mine. Her student got bucked off. Um, oh no. Right. And thank God she had her husband's number in the house. So she could get someone there. But I do require someone to give a contact information. Yeah. So I think that's important. Yeah. Because or someone that's close that can, can help that person. I think that's really, really important. Um, I also find, and I don't know about, I find if someone's wearing black gloves and a black jacket and black pants, it's very hard to see anything that's going on with their hands. Yeah. You found that one? Oh, yeah. It's way way easier if they're wearing white gloves.

12:23Yes. Highly, highly recommend that in the white colored pants. Yes. Which sounds funny, but like that helps us see you, which is important. I do it the same thing with my coach. You know, sometimes he's like, Hey, put in some white gloves. So see what your hands are doing. But I have to say it, it really has saved my business and my life because I have to go to California just for, it's for my education as well as like, I can mentally get away from my farm. However, if I did that 20 years ago, I would lose a lot of income. So I'm very, very grateful to be able to teach virtual lessons. I'm also really grateful to my students that they're open to learning virtually. I highly recommend because I did it before COVID. And now because of COVID, everyone's like, Oh, yeah, I want a virtual lesson. But I did it before and a lot of my students weren't interested and I totally understand

13:24it. Yes. And I was really surprised how many people progress, like people can progress on the virtual lessons. So give it a chance. Right. Give it a chance. And both you and I take lessons in the summer from our coaches. Yes. So we use the service too. And I have found that so it's great because, you know, same thing, like, and the way I do at Megan and in my ring, actually, I don't, I do a little more low techie. I, I like FaceTime. It seems to work really well in my ring. Now you have a second person. So, you know, I'm lucky because I do have an assistant that's typically on site all the time. So, and that was for me, the technology aspect, as we all know, I'm not great with technology. So, I think it's really important to have someone there to help with that. If you, especially if you're angsty about it, just get a second person, have a friend, have a kid, have it, somebody, you know, that's there to help with that and that has helped a lot.

14:24So, if there is issues, they can kind of work through them, which has been very helpful. So I do pivo FaceTime some picks up, not as many picks up, but I can do them as well. So yes, we believe very much in the system because we do it with our own coaches. And that was the thing. Like, for the longest time, I would be in Florida with Scott Hasler, who's been my coach forever. You know, I'd see him and then I wouldn't see him for months after, which was really tough. And so now it's great. He can pop in. We're, you know, ready for the horse show, whatever he can, he can come in and it's been really helpful. So, we believe in it. If we can help you guys, feel free to reach out in any way. I think a lot of coaches are doing this now. You get better and better too as you do it. But it's been great. I see some people in some remote locations, like there are no dressage coaches and that's been really helpful. So, feel free to reach out to us. We would love that. And we're going to have this break from Kentucky Performance Products.

15:26And again, this is an amazing company. They work, I work very closely with them and deal yet in her whole team and I'm so thankful for them because again, their products are phenomenal and make our horses look amazing. So, thank you for their support to the show as well. Does your performance horse have sore stiff muscles? Does he lack energy or tire quickly during exercise? Does his competition schedule require travel? Many show that horses in regular training and those with limited access to pasture often require additional vitamin E. They also show that horses being trailered even short distances can face immunity challenges. Elevate natural vitamin E can help. A research proven, powerful antioxidant elevate maintains healthy muscle, nerve and immune functions. It does this by delivering a highly bioavailable source of natural vitamin E that is preferentially

16:31absorbed and retained in a horse's tissues. For more information, visit kppusa.com or call 859-873-2974. Well, at convention, Megan and I had the real honor and privilege to meet Dr. Jane Menfredi. She is the Marianne McPhail, Dr. Sash, chair of E-QuantSports Medicine. Welcome to the show. Jane, we're so happy to have you. I'm so happy to be here. Well, first of all, we have to, Marianne McPhail was a personal friend of mine also and so I really want to dedicate this to her. She was a wonderful human being and it's so fun that her legacy lives on through you, my friends. Thank you so much. Yes, I'm so grateful to be here and I'm so grateful to Marianne for everything that she has done for the Dr. Sash community over the span of her lifetime.

17:32She's owner, writer, judge, all of the things in support of Dr. Sash, including endowing the chair at Michigan State University that I now hold that was originally held by Dr. Hillary Clayton, which is really dedicated to performing research important to the welfare of the Dr. Sash horse and writer and just the impact that that has had so far is really big to use for me to follow in for sure. My friend, I think you're already feeling these shoes in an amazing way and so tell us a little bit more about yourself. We were chatting off air. I'm like, wow, lady, you have a lot of awesome letters behind your name. So tell us more about what those all are. Sure. So I grew up, this is because my mom was a group at Grønning Trainor and she liked Dr. Sash and so she kind of wrote me into that whole world and pretty early on I got involved with Pony Club and realized that I really love the veterinary medicine parts of Pony Club. So I figured out early on that I wanted to go to vet school.

18:35So that's kind of where the DBM comes into play. So when I went into vet school, I thought, oh, surely I'm going to go out and be any quiet practitioner in the field and you know, that was kind of my goal to be a sports medicine veterinarian. And during my time in vet school, I was looking for summer jobs. And so the first summer of vet school, I was like, what can I do? And I was on the, you know, internet at the time and I saw that Michigan State had a summer research program and that Hillary Clayton was looking for students to do research worth her over the summer. And so I was able to go to Michigan State and did research with Hillary and pretty much thought that she had the most amazing job and that kind of changed my whole trajectory. Oh my gosh, that is amazing. So needless to say, I thought, what can I, what do I need to do to be like the best person in the world to help this position, to help really kind of carry out Mary Ann McPhales vision? And so I thought to myself, okay, well, I need to be a veterinarian, I had to graduate

19:36first. But then I thought that really doing things involving like sports medicine and surgery to like keep our horses performing longer and healthier would really help. And then I also was thinking that, you know, a science background kind of like, you know, Hillary's would be able to help me kind of succeed. And so I went on to do a surgery residency and I also became boarded in sports medicine and rehab, but I did a master's in osteoarthritis and a PhD in endocrine disease. So you'll probably hear a little bit later in this talk, I really want to talk how they come together. Yes. They do. That's pretty cool. So, so yeah, so I also love teaching and so I have a few other things where I kind of went to school a little bit longer to figure out how to be the best teacher because I really think that research is only as good as I can communicate it to others. And so really I wanted to be the whole package to really do the research and get it out to all of you in the horse world so we can put it into good use. Oh, thank you.

20:36Thank you for everything that you do. I have a question. What are some early or commonly missed signs that a horse's endocrine or metabolic health may be impacting their training, recovery or their soundness? Good question. Good question. So, a few things, so kind of some of the early things we want to look for in the two major conditions are, so if you're talking about a horse that has PPID or cushings, pituitary parts and tomato dysfunction, that's typically something that happens when the horse is reached about 15 years of age, 20% of horses start to develop this benign tuner in their brain. And some of the early signs you see may just be like a regular sweating after working, like we didn't work that hard. Why do we have weird sweat patches and weird places? Or it may be like, wow, we've been really getting really hard on building our top line and why is this such a struggle to maintain the top line or keep the top line, even though

21:41we've been doing all the right exercises with the trainers and ourselves to kind of keep that happening. So, those are kind of some of the two subtle things that I think people see first on that end of the spectrum. Sometimes I actually, for me, with my mare, it was a little bit of looking at the top line should be really much better for, you know, she's schooling pre-sage, which I won at that time. Like, it should be better. And then I also was like, hmm, why is her coat maybe a little bit heavier than I would be thinking it would be this time of year, you know, why is it a weird September and we look like it's more like December? So those are some of the subtle things that happen earlier on. So the goal would be that you would kind of do things to approach fixing that sooner. So that's kind of from the PPI spectrum for those early kind of warning signs for EMS or equine metabolic syndrome or insulin dysregulation. Some of the signs you might see in those courses are, wait a minute, wearing like a good bit of work and exercise and why is my horse carrying a little bit extra weight and, you

22:43know, why maybe is it seem to be in the, you know, the crest area or by the romper, by the shoulders, you know, we are working really hard what's going on, you know, I think the diet is appropriate for the level of work, you know, or it could be why, you know, we have arthritis happening and maybe like a younger horse or younger horse that you wouldn't quite expect it in. So some of those signs could be what we were about from the equine metabolic syndrome front. Does that make sense, Megan? Those are some of the early warning signs that really would kind of be like, what else is in play here? Is there something else going on? No, that makes total sense. And I also have another question because I feel like I see cushing's a lot more than I did. And is that because we just weren't aware of it? Great, Megan. There's a lot to unpack there kind of in that statement. So there's a few things when we're thinking about, you know, cushing's and insulin dysregulation, kind of those are two actually separate metabolic diseases.

23:43And so when we're worried about like sugars and starches, that's really more EMS. Now some PPID horses can also have EMS, but horses that have metabolic syndrome don't have to have cushing's, okay? So I wanted to be really clear because that's really a confusing point for a lot of people that these are like two different syndromes. And so they can happen together, but they can happen separately. So when we're talking about kind of awareness for cushing's or PPID, I think what we're seeing is, which is a good thing is that a lot of our competition horses are living longer and are athletically successful and athletically competing longer into their careers. And so we're starting to see more horses between 15 and like 22 that are really still out there and doing all the things. And we have owners that are interested in keeping them going, you know, and healthy and happy for as long as they want to and can. So I think that we have kind of a greater focus now on kind of testing and understanding

24:44that there's ramifications to not treating a horse that has metabolic disease or cushing's when they have it. So, you know, if we don't treat a horse that has cushing's and or EMS, we do worry about laminitis, but we know with PPID in general, we also worry about proximal suspensory disease DSLD where we have those dropped fat locks. So I think a lot of it comes from better awareness and the fact that our horses are just working longer into their lives. Yeah. And that makes that makes sense. So you talked about in your lecture, and I'm absolutely going to butcher the name of it, but the Ergraflin Nix, I've had a couple horses, it could be explained that drug because that's a pretty new drug, right? But it's, it's been successfully. Absolutely. Yeah. So it's kind of been like an amazing contribution. So when we're talking about horses that have metabolic syndrome or insulin dysregulation or insulin regulation issues, one of the things we do and we care about is bringing those insulin levels down.

25:45So insulin is the hormone in the blood that helps take like the blood sugar and put it into the muscles and tissues for use. And in some horses, that becomes really high, either because their tissues need more insulin to get the sugar into their tissues or because after they eat, they're got release hormone bones that tell the pancreas release a lot more insulin than I need. And so what the Ergraflin Nix does is actually help the kidneys like get rid of more sugar and glucose. And so if you're glucose and sugar levels are lower, we actually have consequent like lower of insulin. Okay. And why we care about lowering insulin, why that's so key is because high levels of insulin can lead to laminitis and some of these other probably conditions and horses which are bad. And so our tuclephosin is, or I guess all the flosins are fancily called SGLT2 inhibitors and that's just how they actually actually make the horses pee out the sugar or pee out the glucose and lower their insulin. And the cool thing about them is they're fast like within 24 hours, you can have drops

26:49and decreases in your insulin concentrations. And they don't at this time seem to have really a lot of negative effects on the horse otherwise. We've seen some studies now that have reported like kind of following horses after being on the flosins for two years. And kind of one of the biggest side effects they see is that horses will drop weight. And sometimes that's actually pretty good for them, you know, dropping the weight helps them be more sensitive to insulin and get something better shape. But sometimes they've gotten a little too skinny. But most of the time by two years, horses are back to where they started at or at a good weight for them. Yeah, that did happen to one of our horses. You know, she came in a little bit fat, a little bit hard and she'd been on it at her other farm and then she came in for training and we did notice that. So we brought her back in and I was like, well, wherever my pay grade here and we ended up dropping it, we kept her on it, but just dropped the levels. But it really helped her and in both the horses that I've used it with have also been

27:50on insulin wise as another is so can you talk a little bit about that? Sure. So so insulin wise is actually a product that I had done some research on and have a published paper on and so essentially the companies vice president now owner at the time said, hey, you know, we really want to do some science on our product to see if it's really going to help horses and if it's actually doing what it says it does. So as many of you know, there's a lot of supplements that are out there that don't actually have kind of any medical testing on them to see if they actually work and people just say, oh, they work because they should. So I said, sure, and I will say I had a great deal of skepticism about the supplement and this product just before really learning about it and before doing the study. And so I said, sure, I took my like 15 hardest to like manage endocrine disease horses, EMS horses that were so fat that would never lose weight no matter what we did lived on air. And so essentially we tested them with an oral sugar test, which I can talk about later.

28:54And then put them on six weeks of insulin wise and then tested that at the end. What we saw is that a good number of those horses, a significant number of those horses actually had their insolence drop as tested by that oral sugar test. So they went from an area where their insolence were getting high and into scary levels back down to within normal parameters for that test. And so for me, that was like really informative and potentially like I said for long term use, like a really good option for some of these horses where the flows in, you know, ideally we'll not kind of get them off of them within three months after we make exercise and diet changes, insulin wise is something horses could be on long term and be safely on it long term. So yeah, so there are a number of horses, sometimes a small number that don't respond. But I tell most of my veterinarians that are asking me about it, I say, okay, start it, test them, start it six weeks of product, test at the end. If you're seeing improvements, fantastic, keep going, if you're not, okay, let's try

29:55something else. Maybe it is moving on to the flows ends. But yeah, definitely some good stuff there. Oh, good, okay. Perfect. Well, I also want to say, you know, they sponsor our show as well, contact you performance products, but you had talked a lot about it in your talk in Lexington and it's a product that I also have used with those horses and had really, really good success with them. So as you're working with these horses, you know, Megan and I being the trainers that come in or your owners, what are some things like number one, what are signs? And then where do you go once you kind of think like, okay, my horse potentially is metabolic, like kind of walk us through even the basic of that. So owners understand that. I'll do kind of both, both together, like walking you through it. So for, for PPID, the clinical signs that people see your loss of top line, your regular sweating and like an extra hairy coat, you can also have a bunch of recurrent dental or respiratory infections because these horses have high levels of circulating steroids

30:55in their body and cortisol, so they're stressed. For EMS, clinical signs we see is sometimes adiposity, like which is fat, like local fat or generally their horses are overweight as kind of the main thing and we can also have laminitis appearing in worse instances of that. So testing wise, for our PPID horses, what we kind of are recommending now is between, like I would say, between like July and December, we're pretty much looking at our baseline ECTH levels. So that's a hormone that will go up high if a horse has cushing's. If it's other times you're in between that and your horse is kind of like, we think we might have it, but we're not sure. Well, actually do a what we call a terry stem test will actually draw blood, give a hormone and then measure ACTH 10 minutes after giving it. And if it goes up, we have kind of like levels that are what we expected to go up in response

31:57to that hormone. And if it goes up a whole bunch, again, we know they have cushing's. For the oral sugar test, and this is the one that I got a lot of gasps in the audience at when we talked about it. If you just do a fasting baseline insulin in the blood, if it's high, okay, you know, the horse has a problem. But if it's low, you don't actually know anything because it's really not a sensitive test. So I gave the example that if you had 100 horses and 25 of them really had EMS ID, just doing a fasting blood test would only find one horse. You'd miss like 24 horses that really had the problem, which is bad, right? So in response to that, we are not me, but colleagues have developed an oral sugar test where we actually gave the horses like caro syrup, like the really super sweet cooking caro syrup. I know. It's nasty. It's nasty by itself. Horses actually most of them really love it. They probably love it. Oh, yes.

32:57They do. I have, like I said, I have some of the Arabians that like will literally see me with the syringe and come running to me. I feel you kids, that's like me at the Christmas table, like, yes, it's the season, right? So as we'll give them the sugar, and then we measure blood insulin at 60 and 90 minutes later, and it should be below 45 micro, I use per mil, if it's not, we worry about it. So it's kind of like clinical science and testing. Do you want me just to finish out doing a quick thing on treatment stuff? Sure. So do you guys, have you heard of percent or purgolide? Yes. Yes. Yep. Excellent. So percent of purgolide is the treatment for PPID, and so it's basically like the main stay of treatment for PPID. Some horses refuse to eat the pills. It's a once a day tablet. Yeah. Is it injectable? Yeah. Hey, see, people have, well, you try all different tricks, but at some point, sometimes they totally refuse, and there is a new like injectable kebber griline that is somewhat

34:00successful or can potentially be successful, but we really would love them to all take that purgolide pill. So the, you know, on top of that, if they've lost muscle and things like that, we do need to do rehab exercises to build up the top line stuff. So all those core stretches and carrot stretches are really great for those forces, plus some of our resistance, man, work, and all those things. For EMS or insulin dysregulation, what we really want to do is work diet and exercise together. It's the first line, main stay of treatment. So we want to bring our non-structural carbohydrates in their diet. So that's kind of like the starches down to less than 10% like in their total diet and in their hay. Okay. So that's the main thing. So that means cutting out a lot of grains, putting them on like kind of low protein ration balancers and, you know, vitamin and mineral mixes and checking the hay to make sure it's at a safe level. It also might mean taking them off pasture or putting a muzzle on them if they're a pasture,

35:02which can be tough. And then exercise is, you know, really great for these guys because it helps build up the muscle and the more muscle they have, the better they use their glucose and insulin. So whatever we can do, those are the top two things we should do for those forces. But like we kind of alluded to earlier, if we're still doing all those things and having trouble, starting them on insulin wise would be my next step typically. And then if even beyond that, we're still having difficulties or if they actually have an active bowel of laminitis, I start them on flosins. And that kind of would be really key for like you all as horse owners to like push your or tell or ask your vets if your horse is having an active laminate event, be like, hey, can we start some flosins because it brings the insulin down fast. And that's this is a little bit newer piece of information. And so sometimes I think it's veterinarians. It helps if clients push us a little bit because you all know the science are hearing the science and can help everyone work as a team to help your horse get through that

36:03event. And I think too, I have had literally owners and where the vet says, you know, you can't really, you know, put the horse on pasture or you know, and then she's like, well, what about his cookies? And I was like, oh, oh, you got to listen to the vet here. You got to listen to the vet. So compliance, can you just talk a little bit about how important compliance is? We love our creatures, but we don't want to get to the point where we're like loving them to death. So they're definitely closer treats on the market that are available so that they can still get their cookies is just a slightly different version of cookie than the molasses filled ones that other horses get. And then, you know, doing things where they can kind of like mimic their natural grazing like slow, like small, small, heinous, like so heinous that have really small openings. So that it takes them longer to eat the hay that they have in front of them can also help them really mimic their natural behaviors where they're grazing most of the day or eating

37:03most of the day. So those things I really kind of love to do for our creatures because honestly, you know, some of these horses are really, really sensitive. And if you kind of perturb them or push them over a little bit through your cookies or your treats, like it can really cause an issue, like on the horse farm now, unfortunately, with their Arabians, certain breeds are really predisposed to EMS ID and Arabians are one of them. I'll say our warm bloods are actually 23% of the warm blood population looks like it has issues with insulin dysregulation too. So there's also important, you know, therefore, such horses, but you know, really thinking about like, you know, on the reef and farm, we've say now like no treats because some of the horses have issues and some don't, but it's really hard for, you know, people visiting the farm to know who can get what. So really with those breeds as well as, I guess, do any of you, do you do any training on either pre-breeds, lucetanos, on illusions, hoplingers?

38:05Yes, the non-compliant owner in which we now laugh about, she loves her PREs. So yes, it's a PRP, both the two horses that we had some compliance issues. So unfortunately, the periods and the half lingers and lucetanos and all those, there are also breeds that are more at risk for developing equine metabolic syndrome and insulin dysregulation. So those are, you know, ones where we have to really be careful. And like I said, really try and find alternative ways to bond and or make your horse happy. So whether it's extra cream or those low sugar treats, other options like that really work best. I love it when you say no treats. Okay, we can just say no treats. I can say no treat. You can say, Dr. Mifredi said no, he does like those low sugars. Those have worked well and actually they have become a favorite in the barn. Everybody likes those. So that's really that if we have any treats, those are the ones that we use and it seems to work fine. So I'm not sure, I do want to ask this question, but I'm not sure I want to know the answer.

39:07From your perspective, how often do you see performance issues or subtle lameness that is actually rooted in metabolic or endocrine imbalance rather than a primary orthopedic injury? So I think we're just starting to like actually scratch the surface with that Megan. So like a lot, you know, osteoarthritis is a really complicated process, which has kind of many levels to it, but we do know a few things. So horses that are more overweight tend to have and develop osteoarthritis sooner and have more issues with it clinically. We do know like some of my work has shown that horses that have metabolic syndrome are more prone to high limb lameness than horses that don't. And then actually some kind of really hot off the presses work that we're kind of hoping to submit the paper in the next month or two has shown that horses that have equine metabolic syndrome and have osteoarthritis, the synovial fluid.

40:08So the joint fluid that's being the tissues actually has different like a different makeup or components to it as compared to horses that don't have metabolic syndrome that do have our osteoarthritis. Does that make sense? Yeah. So once in the joint fluid is different, which like might mean we need to treat them differently. And so we're really trying to lucidate like how much of a risk factor, you know, having EMS is on arthritis, and I think, you know, between myself and some of our friends down at NC State, and as well as at Penn, we're really trying to like hammer down on how much worse can things get if you have EMS NOA versus just osteoarthritis. Mm-hmm. Thank you. So cool. Oh my gosh. Dr. Jane, we can literally keep you on forever because you're so cool. So we have to have you back because you're doing all kinds of other amazing, just amazing things. And you did another talk about Piaf that was fascinating and the judges program.

41:08So we're going to have to have you back. I hope this is not going to be your only time here with us. Oh, it's not. So some of the work in our lab is, you know, if you do have a worse, it does have osteoarthritis, a common treatment in the past has been injecting that joint with steroids, because it's very effective in making horses comfortable. But my recent work, as well as myself and my grad student, Dr. Perfoga, as well as a collaborator, Dr. Amy Kolbach, the Cornell, has shown that in horses that have EMS ID, if you inject their joints with steroids, their systemic insulin actually goes up into scary high levels that could trigger a laminate event. So that was particularly a type of steroid called triamcylone acidinide, but it is one of them are commonly used steroids. So I just want to give a shout out to everyone who did a lot of work on that project over like basically two years, because, you know, we now know that if your horse has EMS ID and they have arthritis, if you want to put something into the joint, it's really supportive

42:10of using something like PRP, IRAP, a biologic prostride, something that's not a steroid to really keep those horses safe for a longer. Oh, I'm so glad you said that, because that actually happened to a friend of mine and it was awful. I'm sorry. I'm really glad you said that. Yeah. That's really important. Like, talk to your vet. As always, again, you have such great information. How can our listeners find your research, find out about your program, et cetera? So a few different ways, like, so some of my work will be coming out on USDF connection and some articles, so you can read about all of the stuff there. And so the other things are you can follow me on Facebook and Jane and Manfredi or at MSU on CoreLab. You can also find me on Instagram, Jane and Freddie as well. And so all of those things are there. I hope to be talking at more USDF conventions too. And then I also often write like or contribute to articles and many other magazines as well. But really, I try to post like up and coming things mainly on the Facebook pages.

43:11And again, USDF connection will be a really great resource going forward. So you can hear about some of the stuff we're doing, particularly like we're going to be soon publishing and hopefully sharing some things in the P.O.F. Like I talked about at convention. And so I hope in a future talk we can come back and look at kind of what goes into the bio mechanics of the P.O.F. and what contributes to getting higher scores in the P.O.F. as we go forward. It was fascinating. It was so cool. It was Megan and I were just sitting there like, oh my goodness. So we would love to have you back on again for that as well. So thank you so much for your time tonight and happy holidays. Get ready for fall with Chewy. From hoof boots and saddlebags for golden-hour adventures to coolers and clippers for crisp weather workouts, you'll find everything your horse needs this season. Support their health through pasture changes with vitamin E and ration balancers or care for a metabolic horse with targeted supplements, prescriptions, and even ice boots to soothe soreness.

44:12And if your horse is feeling a little too fresh in the fall air, calming supplements are just a click away. With trusted brands you know and fast, free shipping on all orders over $49, Chewy makes it easy to keep your horse comfortable and cared for. For seasonal must-haves for the brands you trust, for fast delivery, there's Chewy. Shop now at Chewy.com slash equine. Well, Megan, I have to be honest. I love my Chewy. I have actually, if Chewy really looked at my order, they would be shocked. I have been kind of stacking, like, getting ready for my cats because you know how much I love my cats. Yeah. I think it's so important to see the cats and which is perfect. So, so very, very grateful because I have lots of cat things and cat treats and bowls and

45:14all kinds of stuff. So, the amount of Chewy boxes that have come, and I use their Black Friday sale to stock up on everything. And we're ready. We're ready to rumble with the cats. So thank you to Chewy, as always, and they're great for holidays because they're really fast. Well, backed by popular demand and after his first USDF, the presidential convention, Kevin Renek, welcome back to the show. Yes, thank you. It's good to be back. And thank you. I know what we had so much fun with you in Lexington and we wanted to just kind of get your rundown and your feeling on convention. So we'll let you take it away. Yeah. Well, once we finally arrived, as everybody knows who tried to travel to Kentucky, there was lots of travel delays everywhere. But I got to be fair. I think there was problems all over the country, right, Dutch, you know, the Lexington just. Yeah, no, for sure. No, for sure. Actually, I don't think the problem was even in Lexington necessarily. I think it was more than the Northeast, but it did create delays through all the major

46:17hubs. And so I got into Lexington really, really early Tuesday morning. I was supposed to get in Monday night. But anyway, we got in. I got in there about 145 Tuesday morning and then I took a little nap and then went down to the USDF office to work on some things for the convention and have a meeting with a Stefan Hinch, our executive director. And then we went over and had a meeting over at USEF with Bill Moroni and some of the powers at B over at USEF. So right off the bat, just hit the ground running, getting to work for the organization. So yeah, it was really good. Of course, you know, the staff works really hard to put together any of these big events that we do, but especially convention. So it's really nice for us to, well, for me anyway, to have the convention there in Lexington and be able to go visit the office and things like that.

47:20So it works, works really well for the staff and everybody and I thought convention went really well. We had a lot of really good meetings. It's always nice for us to get together in person and meet on the committees that I sit on. I sat on sports committee. We're kind of, we're talking about a new board. I can't really, we're still in the formative. Sure. It's in the idea stages, but we had a really good time, you know, really productive time talking about that and some of the things that it's kind of fun to develop these new awards and new programs, new educational opportunities and things like that. So, but yeah, that's kind of something with the convention too, that it's maybe a little bit confusing. Is there a U.S.E.F. component and there's a U.S.D.F. component, right? Because I think sometimes people, that gets confusing. Well, yes. So we do host, well, I don't necessarily want to say we host it.

48:21We team up with U.S.E.F. and we hold the Dersage Sport Committee meeting at the convention. So we have a couple of meetings there and that's not only is it one of our, one of our face to face meetings for U.S.D.F. it's also one of our face to face meetings for U.S.E.F. So yeah, so we have blocked out times during the convention for the Dersage Sport Committee for U.S.E.F. which I also sit on that and that's, you know, also a really good productive time for us to get together. Yeah. Because I'm on the rules working group. Same thing. Yeah. We have the in-person, you know, which is great. It's very helpful to sit in a room and hash out. We do a lot of tack. We look at a lot of tack and equipment and that's really helpful when we're all together. Yeah. So we have the early in the week, right? That's kind of earlier in the week. Yeah. So when we, so with Wednesday, we started, let me see here, we start Wednesday. We have our closed meetings. So a lot of the license officials, you know, the Judges Committee, the L program, a lot of those meetings will take place during the day on Wednesday.

49:27Yeah. Sorry. I got to think back and get. I know me too. I was like, what day was it? Yeah. So that'll take place on Wednesday. And then the management committee of the U.S.E.F. meets Wednesday night, we usually get together and have dinner and have a meeting. And so the management committee is made up of all the executive officers of the executive board. So myself, the president, the vice president, the secretary, the treasurer. And then also there is a representative from the regional directors. So they choose, I think it's, I think, I think a regional representative serves. I can't remember. It's a two or three year term. And that is selected by the regional directors to represent the regions, represent the membership on the management committee. So we had our management committee meeting and then the next morning we have the executive board meeting.

50:28So. And yeah, we had a question for you because I've heard a lot of people talk about like all the meetings are closed. Can you kind of talk about that because, yeah, I mean, I think it's when you're in the closed meetings, you kind of understand why they're closed, but I see both sides of that. Can you kind of address that a little bit? So there's, you know, there's close in the closed meetings, you know, like for example, I'll give you an example of the sports horse committee. We talked about, you know, kicking around the idea of a new award that we want to, you know, some new recognitions that we want to do for the sports horse committee. So these ideas are all formed during the closed meetings. You know, we take various inputs or whatever it is or where there's a need or some, or some area that we want to recognize. And so, you know, all that criteria, you know, the, what it, what's going to shape that program takes place in the closed meetings. And then before the convention leading up to the convention, we have, and this all started

51:33during COVID when we had the virtual meetings. So we do hold open virtual meetings via Zoom and ever and all the memberships invited to join these to talk about the committees and basically the committee, committee chairs and the committee members will give reports to the membership about what the committee does, what it's mission statement is, what it's currently working on. And then they also open up the floor to question and answer and things like that. When we moved forward from the, from the COVID, from the, the two years of virtual conventions that we did, we maintained the open virtual meetings and really just earmarked the time at the convention for the, for the closed meetings. And then instead of having individual close meetings, like so said, stay instead of having a regional championship open meetings, excuse me, instead of having individual open meetings, we then had opened up the council meeting.

52:34So all the, so we have the activities council, the technical council and administrative council. And all the committees that fall underneath those councils are opened up in one big forum with the idea behind it that we could kind of cross pollinate between the committees, the committees can share information, competitors, competitors, competitors, members can come in and see, you know, how the committees all work in a relate underneath the council and things like that. That was, that was the idea. But there is a way. I think that's, that's what's really important to know. Like, there is a way, there is time that some of the meetings need to be closed and I can understand because like adding a new award, if I, I just, my little that I know about governance is it sounds great, but like, but then it's like, what will that cost? How many people, you know, like, there are a lot of logistical questions that sort of have to be run down with that, which I didn't realize before I said in some of those meetings. And you're like, oh, this is way more complicated than it sounds on the surface.

53:35No, there's, yeah, there's tons of, you know, yeah, tons of different things that could then have to be considered, you know, it's interesting. I'll compare it to a, I'll compare it to a horse show. Okay. So you're going to a horse show. The perspective of the horse show from the management side is completely different from the competitor side. And the competitor, most likely, unless they spent a lot of time working at a show on the management side, has no idea what it takes to actually make that trip down center line happen. Right. It's true. Yeah. And unless you've worked in that show office, you have zero idea. There's so many things going on behind the scenes to make that trip down center line happen. Well, it's the same thing with the governance. There's so many things, you know, going on behind the scenes, I mean, there's so many things that go on on the, on the staff level and that we have to try to, you know, understand. We just float out an idea and the staff like, okay, well, we'll make of that into a reality. So we'll make it happen. Yeah.

54:35Exactly. Exactly. And the thing I love, I just wanted to add that I'm not sure who does it because I'm a competitor. I just show up and enjoy the convention is that you have all these educational sessions. For instance, we just had Dr. Jane Manfred, we also, you also hosted a horse welfare. I think it was a safe and safe sport, which was wonderful to just communicate and learn more about. So I just want to say thank you. Yeah. You're welcome. And it's, yeah, it's interesting that you bring that up because about the animal animal welfare, horse welfare, welfare, it's a major topic of discussion right now. You know, and a big portion of my, you know, welcome, or my report to the Board of Governors was made up of talking about, you know, welfare of the horse and how, you know, what's that, you know, we need to educate everybody about, about that and about, you know, welfare of

55:40the horse and social license to operate and, you know, that, that we are putting our, you know, best foot forward that people who don't know anything about the sport can come in and see that we are, you know, as the sage riders and as trainers and as competitors that we are building a respectful collaborative relationship with our horse, you know, that we're not just out there for sending, you know, forcing them or, or, or, or put, pressuring them to do something they don't, that they don't want to do, you know, we're trying to create an understanding and a collaboration with them, with the horses and, I know, those are, those are great talks. I mean, they're, they're, you know, and that's part of convention too. And I think one of the things is, is the, the people that speak are amazing and, and really bring incredible knowledge along with being able to just, you know, sit, like, I happen to be sitting in front of Dr, Dr., Dr. J. McFretty and, and, you know, things like coming on the podcast, but talking about her talk and like, oh, I have a horse and,

56:42you know, I think that that's so important because that's been a big talk right about moving forward is what will happen with convention moving forward. Yes. Yeah. So one of the big topics of convention was the convention itself. And I think, as I said, on the, when I visited the podcast before convention, that was the topic. And we got a ton of great feedback. I have to say. And I think when people saw that on the, on the agenda, they were, they, they, people that go to convention are passionate. They're passionate about the sport. They're passionate about going to convention and they're passionate about being involved in the governance, you know, and, and I will say this order of dressage, USDF, in the way it set up and this board of dressage, the members believe it or not have a lot of say and have a lot of access to the governance and have a lot of control over what we do. So the board of governors, just to give a quick rundown, the board of governors is made up of two sections. There's the, the participating member delegates. And then there's the general, the GMO, the

57:47general member organization delegates. So GMOs are the local dressage clubs that are general member organizations underneath the USDF and brela. So like, I came up in governance on the board of the California Dressage Society, which is a GMO of USDF. So when I attended the convention, I was always a GM delegate, a delegate from the GMO. But we also have other representatives that are PM delegates. And those are elected by the membership within that region. So they are PM delegates and regional representatives to the board of governors. Yeah. And so that's what I do. And in region two, we have a great shout out to Molly Fine. She's the best. She organizes. And once you know Molly Fine, when you see she's calling, you, it's a joke. You, you really answer. And she's going to be after you. And I appreciate that because she reminds you. And then she reminds you to get your paperwork in. So I hope every

58:48reason has a Molly because Molly's amazing. And she makes sure our region is on it. It's great. Yeah. No, it's fantastic. And some of the regions are very active and have and bring, you know, bring their full quota of delegates to the convention. And others, you know, don't don't have so many, you know, have so many people available already to step up and fill those roles. So I like, for example, from region seven, I think we can send 11 delegates or something like that. And I think we probably had like four or five. So those four or five delegates, what happens is they redistribute all the votes that go across the 11 delegates. And they get distributed across the delegates that are there. So, you know, that so the votes are still get cast. They're still, you know, representing the region there. But, you know, all the regions have, you know, different amounts of participation. And on a local level, you might have certain areas that have a higher concentration of people that are already

59:50this, you know, step up and be active and get involved. And then other regions, you know, it's maybe a little bit more sparse or whatever the reasons. And they just don't have that, you know, ready supply of people that are in a position to take the time to come to convention and stuff. So, but we appreciate everybody that does come. So as far as talking about the convention moving forward, we did have an open forum. We had a lot, we got a lot of great feedback. And really it was just an opportunity for us on the executive board to hear the board of governors about their thoughts about the convention. And, you know, some of the challenges and let them know about some of the challenges that we're facing with the convention. That's. And there was some riding of plastic horses that happened. There was, yes, yes, there was there was some stick horse, there were some quadrilles and some podidus and George's horse, George Williams, his horse was acting up and was like, you know, kicking everybody, you know, while sticking, I guess, thick horse,

1:00:52it was sticking everybody. You know, so they had to, you know, we had to call it TV over, I think, Greta had to get involved in this, you know, just another day at the horse show. Yeah, you know, but so no, it was a lot of fun. That, you know, and it's these kind of activities that, you know, bring everybody together and everybody has a really good time. And you can't forget the gala. And the words, yeah, that is such an amazing when you, you know, when you finally earn your bronze, your silver, your gold, you get, you get recognized. And it's such a wonderful event. And to meet everybody and to celebrate all of our hard work, I think anyone who earns an award should definitely go once in their lifetime. Yes. Yeah, it's, you know, what, it's really fun. And it's a, and that's one of the best pleasures for me as far as in my role is being able to present awards at the, at the annual gala. I got to do it a little bit as, at the, as it be, and I'm sorry.

1:01:56You smiled for hours. You had to be tired. Well, it's, it's easy to smile when, you know, when you're able to appreciate everybody's achievements with them. So, no, it was, that was a lot of fun. So, yeah, so some of the challenges that we face are, you know, the cost of the convention costs have really skyrocketed since COVID. And I, I got the, got the opportunity to talk to David O'Connor that he's the chief of sport at USEF. And he said, you know, many other affiliates are experiencing the same challenges, right? USEA, USHA, they're all experiencing the same challenges with their annual meetings. You know, it's, it's really expensive to go hotels and meeting spaces to cost, you know, the cost for those and the cost for food and the cost for all the things have just gone up substantially. The cost to travel is substantial. You know, holding it as we know going to Lexington, it's very, can be challenging to travel there. As far as flying in, it's, it's the cheapest for the organization

1:03:02as far as the cost for our staff and the cost to put it on. The hotel costs are relatively low compared to other places that we go or have gone and, you know, our access to education and things like that is, is pretty readily available within a close proximity to Kentucky. In Lexington, yeah. Yeah, considering all the horse industry that's happening there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, so these are all the challenges that we're facing, you know, and, and trying to figure out, you know, of course, we don't mind to make an investment into the convention. We feel it's really important, but it has to be a sustainable investment into the convention. So we did spend a lot of time at the Board of Governors getting feedback about what elements they liked about the convention. Definitely one of social events like our, you know, our our our stick horse horse horse, and the cocktail hours, those were those were very highly regarded. Yeah, I enjoyed

1:04:05those. Yeah, yeah. Everybody had a good time there. The education, everybody enjoys the education, and they definitely would like to see more open commit, you know, open meetings, open committee meetings. They, they've you know, the open open councils are great, but they feel like they got a lot more, you know, intimate one-on-one information when arable to attend. The open committee meetings directly. So we did take in all that feedback. I've been getting, you know, a lot, you know, I've gotten quite a few emails from people attendees of the Board of Governors that with good feedback. So we're, you know, we're taking a hard look at it and it's going to be a slow process. I'll let everybody know that it is going to be a slow process as far as making change and what slows it down is the fact that we have to, you know, we have to start booking for 20, 27 convention now. We're going to be booking that soon. So, you know, so we are taking everybody's

1:05:05feedback and please be patient and please definitely send in your feedback. And we're going to be, you know, looking to make changes within our structure. But we definitely, we definitely want to keep the convention going. We want to, we want it to be a positive experience that somebody would look forward to attending and we're exploring all different kinds of things, teaming it up with some of our, maybe teaming it up with some of our other events that we're already doing. You know, we're going to look at everything like is this the right time of year? Is this the right format and and all the things. So next year convention will be back in Lexington, right? Next year Lexington will be back in Lexington. We will be at the Griffin gate hotel. Let me look up the dates. I don't have the dates right in front of me, but we will be at the Griffin gate. The Griffin gate is very nice. Yeah, it's very nice and it's very close to the office. So I think there'll be more use to the office, which is we are going to do a tour of the office for sure. Okay, so we did adjust the schedule a little bit and we are revisiting that. So the dates that it will fall

1:06:12will be on that first weekend in December and but we are exploring reworking the schedule a little bit. So that's going to be remain to be seen. So I'll but it will fall, you know, for sure over the fourth and fifth of December. So be looking, yeah, you'd be looking at the dates are coming out. The dates are going to be coming out exactly. And then one thing that we are going to do for sure is they have a do a big light display at the horse park and we are going to get some buses together. We're going to do seven lights and it's been going on for years. It's it's really a fun thing to do. Yeah, yeah, if you ever, yeah, if you ever came out to the US finals while the US finals are going on, they're usually setting the lights up. Yeah, they're showing. So, yeah, so we're going to do that tour and then we're going to come back and have a reception at the USDF office. While I was there, I also talked to USEF and so I think we're going to do a kind of

1:07:13a joint that the details still have to be flushed out and I kind of sprung it on the USDF staff at the Board of Governors, but I did talk to Bill Moroni and David O'Connor and some of the, you know, key people over at USEF and they love the idea of us collaborating on a on a on an event and so we might be doing a little bit of a, because the offices are basically across the parking lot from each other. Yeah, it's a long parking lot, but yeah, they are. So, yeah, it's a significant parking lot. Yeah, it is, but the USEF building is great and they have lots of wonderful things on display like some of our Olympic medals and, you know, things from the other disciplines as well. And then, you know, the USDF office is fantastic. We have a whole, you know, museum dedicated there to the history of the organization and so get a chance to see the USDF office in action and we have our little store set up there. Yeah, this is shop there. Yeah,

1:08:15oh, I love it. I love it. So we haven't anything coming on for 2026 that we should kind of keep our ears, ears and eyes open for. Yeah. So of course, we have the trainers conference coming up January 19th to the 20th and that is with Haika Kimmer and Kristoff, you'll, you'll, um, box, sorry, you gotta remind writing here. I have my notes here. Um, and then, uh, and always a good place to go is on the top of the USDF website, go to the, uh, educational resources and opportunities. Okay. So under the judges at judges training and L program, I think we have like five training, various five various training opportunities going on under that section in the first border alone. Everyone, right? You don't have to. I think some of some of them are, yeah, there's going to be signups and I, and some of those programs are definitely geared towards judges in their various states, states, uh, stages of licensing, but, uh, definitely some of those programs

1:09:15are open, open to all. And, uh, you know, definitely some of the L program, uh, training programs are, are good for everybody to take. I know a lot of trainers that have maybe probably really aren't interested in becoming a judge, but really want to know what the judge get a little bit of a more insight into what the judge is looking for. And that L program is a great, great place to do that. That's super cool. Um, sport, the sport horse committee doesn't have anything on the, on the schedule as of yet, but we are three programs that we really, uh, try to put forward in the sport horse committee. I'll give a plug because I'm on that committee. Um, is our prospects development for them. I had the opportunity to be, uh, part of the, uh, prospects development for my wife was actually one of the presenting writers when it was out here in California. That is a fantastic program. That is a program geared towards starting young horses, um, you know, giving a good start. And, and we have, uh, we have a variety of faculty members that, um, that do, uh, that put on that,

1:10:22that forum. We usually get together two or three of them, um, to put on that forum. And some of the faculty members are, uh, like Willie Arts, some DG bar ranch, Michael Braggdall from, from Hilltop Farm, uh, Scott Hasler is a, uh, really kind of spearheaded that program. And, um, he was one of our early, uh, forum presenters. Uh, the other one in, uh, and I would got a chance to be one of the presenters on this one was the youth, uh, youth breeder seminar. And, uh, the youth breeder seminar is geared to introducing young people to, uh, horse, you know, equestrian breeding and working, and working on a breeding farm. And some of the events were, the one that I participated in, I was a presenter at DG bar. So we talk about everything from managing stallions, to managing mayors, delivering foals, uh, preparing young horses to, um, go and hand at breed shows, to starting them under saddle. It covers all aspects of things that breeders need to know.

1:11:25Um, one year they did it in, um, uh, and in Louisiana at Oak Hill Farm, and I believe that was, they had a breeding, I want to say it was an old bird inspection about 100% sure, uh, but it was one of the breed inspections. So that, the whole weekend was steamed around the breed inspection. Um, another, another, they've done a few of them at Hilltop, um, which of course is, you know, fantastic over there. Uh, and they, you know, learned about managing the stall, and they learned a lot on, at Hilltop, they learned a lot on the marketing side, believe it or not, they talked about, um, uh, and they, they came out of that one with a lot of different careers, like IT side marketing, social media of promoting, um, your stallions, your, your, the offspring, and all things like that. So there was a lot of information there. And in one year, they did it at their sage at Devon and, um, spend a lot of time going over the breed, uh, the breed show there, uh, which is still, I think the biggest breed show in the country. So the, I think by far,

1:12:26yeah, um, so, so keep an eye out for those, uh, you know, definitely, it's been a challenge. A lot of these programs, especially under, like especially under sport horse, uh, struggled, you know, have been struggling to get going again after COVID. These are all things that I think were, were great programs, um, that we're really trying to get going again. Another thing that we did, usually more on a local level is, uh, some, some handling clinics, um, where we get a couple of handlers, uh, together from across the country and, uh, put on a clinic to prepare young horses for breed shows. Um, that's a great thing to attend. If you see that come across the schedule, that's a great thing to attend because even if you have, you know, if you're at a gargisaw show and you need to hand walk your horse, uh, and a kind of electric environment, a lot of these skills come in, come in handy. I've had people come through my, I've given a handlers clinic and I've had people come through and say, you know, my horse is going to be on rehab

1:13:27for the next six months and I have to hand walk them 20 minutes a day and all these exercises are going to be vital for the both of us to survive that six months. Yeah, it's exactly. It's supposed to be talking at the end of the six months. Yeah. Um, and then, and then the other, thing under this, uh, sport horse education is, uh, sport horse seminars, which are the seminars that we give for educating people about, um, evaluating sport horses. It's the prerequisite for becoming a sport horse judge. And so there's that seminar, um, and in the other area of it, which is, I know, uh, an area that's near and near to you guys's hearts is the instructor training, the vet and development program. And, uh, and these continuing educational, um, opportunities, I think are fantastic, much like the L program. Yeah, keep coming for local, uh, I think for local to Shaw's clubs, the information available and the opportunities to put on these, uh, training opportunities are, are, and Megan knows how to do it. If anybody wants to know, Megan's doing them.

1:14:29So, uh, I will help anyone. Yeah. She will help you. I will help you. It is amazing. I highly, highly recommend it. It's a lot of work, but, um, well worth it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And again, this all lens to education about, you know, this underlying theme, all this and the thread that's going to be going through all of these programs, it is, it is somewhat currently, but even more so moving forward is, uh, you know, welfare of the horse and, and the best practices for training up your horse and presenting your horse and demonstrating that we are putting the welfare of the horse as, uh, in the forefront of what we're doing and what we want to present. Um, real quickly, the massage foundation was, of course, uh, yes, they're representing, uh, their organization at the convention and, um, region eight, a group of anonymous donors from region eight put forth a challenge that they would match any donations made to the USDF

1:15:32programs support fund up to $12,000. Yeah. It was incredible. So, uh, that challenge, so a lot of the other regions, uh, regional directors pose that challenge to their regions. And, um, so you, uh, uh, nearly 27,000, and I called you today to get confirmation on all this nearly 27,000 was, uh, was, was raised and donated towards the USDF educational programs fund. So they maxed out the, uh, the matching amount. So they got the full 12,000 from, from the region eight donors, um, which is included in that 27,000. A couple other, uh, Noah Ratner at region six and, Anne Sheshko at region four, I think they, uh, did some sort of matching thing, um, or matching donation for their region two, uh, as well for their regions as well. So that was very exciting news. We're very, you know, that's a, that's a great new program that, uh, their massage foundation

1:16:33is getting going in conjunction with, uh, USDF and, uh, these are funds that we're trying to make available to, uh, you know, put on these educational programs. And, uh, and we're trying to fund that, you know, grow that fund. And so this was a major step in the right direction. Uh, well, Kevin, as always, this is such great information. And this is such a good rundown for everyone that things really do happen at convention. It's really important. Plus all the cool people you get to truly need and their coffee breaks and, and, you know, there's, there's, you know, parties and things that go on that are really important. So thank you so much for the rundown. If anybody has any questions for you or just in general, how can they find you online? Yep, they can always, uh, the best way is always email me at president at usdf.org. That's the best way. I love that. I love it. Well, Kevin, we hope you have a very happy holidays. You get at least a little bit of rest. I mean, don't check that email for a day or two if you can. Maybe give a rest, everybody. Just just right there. It's no problem. I'm here to serve and I'm happy to,

1:17:39I look forward to hearing from everybody. For first time horse owners and new riders just starting out, finding the information and support you need can be challenging. That's why equine network has partnered with Sentinel Feed to bring you my new horse, a place where equestrians just getting into horse ownership or riding will find the resources and community they need a precisely their stage of the equine journey from important horse keeping information and how to videos to social media communities and more. My new horse is your one stop shop for riders of all levels and disciplines who are eager to find easy to understand horse care information and guidance. Start your horse ownership journey today. Visit my new horse dot com.

1:18:39Well, Megan, we have had so much fun with this book club and thank you for everybody for embracing it. We had like what I could count was 50 people at our talk convention and we were we were the last ones before the banquet. So people that stayed had the kind of hustle to get ready for dinner and gosh, we are so happy to see everybody and it really makes us this this program really makes a smile, doesn't it? It sure does and the conversation was amazing and I have to kudos to Beth Ballmart. It was just so much fun to have great conversation about the book and I'm super excited about 2026, aren't you? Yes. So we have some great books. We're going to announce them. They're on the website. So the first book is How to Ride the Horse You Thought You Bought by Ann Buchanan. The second one is stable core training by Joyce Kramer. Then we have the imperfect ride by Andrea Waldo. And the last one is Fur Mama by Diana DuPont. Yeah. So we're really thrilled.

1:19:47Now I hope everyone is reading. I have to be honest. I haven't had a chance to start this book yet. I think you've started it. Megan, but our last book is through December everybody. So give me grace. But it's begin and begin again by Denny Emerson. And I'm really actually looking for this is going to be when I'm in Florida and have some quiet time to read this book, but really looking forward to it as we move forward. I am too. And where is the webinar January 7th? Yes. January 7th. We have the webinar. So we're going to do a webinar. We'll get to chat with Denny Emerson just like we've been doing. So I hope everybody enjoys that. So lots of good stuff. Megan, I hope you have the best holiday and you guys get some rest and then a very uneventful which we need drive California. That's what we need. And you're going to have a great sunny on the beach holiday. I can't wait to hear about it. I'm a little bit jealous.

1:20:47Winston does. Winston does love the beach. That is like a fave for him. And so yeah, we get and it's so great when it wouldn't travel there and they get to play on the beach. It's a lot, a lot of fun. So we wish everyone a very happy holidays. Thank you to everyone that listens to the show. You guys mean so much to us. And wow, we have so many fun things happening in 2026 or really ready. And we hope you and your whole family have wonderful holidays for everyone. If you've not subscribed yet, do it now. Just search Dressage Radio Show on your favorite podcast player. You can join the fun and supportive community at Horse Radio Network Auditors on Patreon. You'll get that behind the scenes, insight, special offers, and the opportunity to participate in Horse Radio Network podcasts. Go to patreon.com forward slash horse radio network. The Dressage Radio Show Facebook is the Dressage Radio Show. And my website is maplecressfarmky.com. And my email is reach at horseradionetwork.com. And my website is lindenhoff.com. And my email is

1:21:52lindenhoff.llc at gmail.com. We'd like to thank our friends and show sponsors. Kentucky Performance Products. And chewy. Keep on kicking on until the next show. Talk to you soon.