"Conor Benn Makes a Dent In This Kid!"

0:00It's not looking the best at the moment. Wait, why is he looks for me pretty drained? It depends how quickly and how much weight he's taking off. I am of the opinion that I think eventually Ryan Garcia will knock him out. The worrying thing for me when we just saw that picture of Connor Venner's eyes is sunken with the very dark around the eyes. If you're low early on, that's a big worry. It's heavily favoured in Ryan Garcia's favourite, because he's a better fighter. No, thank you. This man was clever. I've got a feeling despite all of my common sense and all of the discussions that we've had that Connor might make a dent in this kid. So that Ben's getting a lot of stick for it for the training, but I also think a lot of that stick should go to Moses himself as well. He said they hadn't done a 12-year-old spot, which I think is insane. It's wonderful that Don says in five or ten years time, Ben, you'll be at the top of your trade. Yeah, but what about f***ing people on the journey? You're the head coach. Your voice is final. Yeah, I'm absolutely bored to tears over that. And it's losing its... It's just a money fight, Joe.

1:00It's wonderful to hear both Anthony and Eddie, both of them tax residents in Monaco and Dubai, wearing their Union Jack underpants, making it a patriotic position. Come on now. There's a bit rich in it. F***ing exciting. Welcome to episode 188 of Tott Boxing with Simon Jordan, Spencer Oliver and Paul Smith, sponsored by the Zone, the Global Home Reboxing. We're joined in the studio by former undisputed Super lightweight champion of the world, Josh Taylor. Nice to see you, Josh. Thanks for making it this time. Good evening, Tom. Good evening, Tom. Good evening, Tom. Good evening, Tom. Let's start with the main event of the week, and a fight that a lot of people are looking forward to. A fight that probably will go to proving something in the world of Connor Ben, which is obviously Connor Ben versus Ryan Garcia. We've seen Connor over the years have fights at this weight class. We've seen him beat Van Herden, our G-A-R-E, Granadas, Vargas, from Ella. We now see him arriving back in this weight class pool, fighting Ryan Garcia, and we'll talk about Garcia in a minute. But this is the make or break moment in terms of people's mindset

2:03about Connor Ben. How big a task is this for him fighting Ryan Garcia? It's massive, and I think anyone who knows the boxing will say that. But he has a chance, and I think the chance is the punches chance. Now you mentioned the weight, and I think the weight is the key in this fight. I think whether the boiling down to 147 is really here. I mean, to be honest with you, from the clips I'm seeing this week, which the lads and yourself all are seeing, it's not looking the best at the moment. Why is he looks for me pretty drained at it? But he's going to be, he's been up at 160, and then his last fight was at 150, and it's very, very hard to get down to 147 when he's as big and strong as he is. I think his chances are not just the punches chance, but I think the best chances he has is of knock on the mouth. And he's got to make sure that he re-idehs well, he fills up and fuels up. And I think he's got a time catch Garcia on an off night. And that's the question, will Garcia turn up on an off night, or will he be pulling him off to the mirror? Against the mirror, yeah, because he's a saccharic order of it. I mean, you're looking at the video of him, Josh.

3:04People talked about you at Super Lightweight when the last fight, you had a just catcher, and you always said that wasn't the case, but went up to 147. When you look at the physique of Connor, Paul makes the point of the white class being the biggest thing that possibly has overcome. I mean, as I said, we listed the fighters that he'd been in the gates when he was building up his career before the debacle that started with Chris Eubank and the Phil Drugs tests. Right? When I look at this white class, when you look at the physique of Connor bin, what's your immediate reaction to it? Well, I think he looks okay. He looks a little bit drawn in. I mean, it's hard to tell. He does look a little bit gone in the face, which suggests that he's maybe taking the weight off quite quickly, which can be dangerous, and that's going on. Personal experience myself. The first Jack Carroll fight I took over a stone off in like five days, and you could tell. And I didn't do the rehydration properly, and you could still tell the day off. Why would you take a kill? Educate me. Why would you need to take a stone off in five days?

4:05Well, I just left it. I left it. I left the weight. I left the weight to take it off, you know? And I almost paid for it, you know? And it told in the performance of the fight, so it depends how quickly and how much weight he's taking off going on going into this week. So that'll have, that'll definitely have an impact in the performance. So, you can curl with the view that Paul's flying, that it's the white class in terms of him getting back down to 147. We saw him fight catch weight, a Regis progrey. Didn't see the power that we thought we were going to see. Regis progrey was a spent force. We're seeing him fight at like middle, and we've not seen the power translated in the last two fights after a long layoff, but then we saw the fight against Kisewabeng, and we can make of that what we will of that. Do you think it's the only battle he has in this fight really is the weight class, or do you think that there's much more to this than just the weight class? And Ryan Garcia is too much on the podium. Yeah, I think, I think, Ryan Garcia is much better for him. I am of the opinion that I think eventually, Ryan Garcia will knock him out.

5:06I think we'll catch him when we're in life, too. And also, it depends how Connor has taken that weight off. It depends how long he's taken to take that weight mass off the muscle. You know, it takes a long time for your body to adjust. It's one thing, taking off maybe a stone in water. You can do that with not too much an effect, but when you're taking off muscle mass as well, then you're losing strength, now you're losing power and all that. That can have an effect as well. So it just depends on how long he has been working on losing that little bit of muscle, not doing so much like SNC and weight training, maybe just more body weight stuff and fast and light stuff. It depends how long he's been doing that kind of training for for his body to adjust. We'll talk about Round-In, I mean, it took a couple of years, and some of the weaknesses we've seen from him, which is the accusation of people like Karl Sproch that he swallowed it against Giovanni Davis, maybe does it then he can do it again. We've seen in previous fights,

6:06Conor Ben and Conor getting, liking the role of inhabiting the pantomime villain. They've had a back and forward in various instances. In the build-up to this fight during the course of this week, what do you expect to see from the two fighters as it starts to come on top as they build towards the fight? I think that we will see an aggressive Conor Ben because he's cutting weight. We've seen recent pictures of him as Josh said, where he is down, but he was still 10 pounds overweight and he looked quite drawn then. So this week he's going to be like, the guy is no, anyone that's cut weight, you get so aggressive, so irritable, like all you're thinking about is beating the scales, that is your main opponent. Hasn't he really helped with that question? No, that's what I'm saying, because he's already an emotional kid, and he's quite an aggressive kid anyway. It's going to add to that. So I'm expecting a very irritable, very aggressive, quite unapproachable guy in Conor Ben. What about Ryan Garcia? And Ryan Garcia, I think he's brilliant at what he does. He's a genius at that and he'll be poking the bear, and he'll be feeding him out because that sees him game. He likes to play mind games, he likes to get inside the head.

7:08And he's serious. And Conor won't make the weight. No, I think they'll do it. I think he'll do it. It's not about making it, though. It's about performing after the weight, as you've said to the boys. And it's the one thing that Josh said there, because I was with you on that, with making weight and how difficult that is, it's the punch resistance, that is the big concern. When you look at Ryan Garcia, is there a rehydration clause in this fall? Yeah, but it's the 24 hours you've got, or he's got 30 hours, rehydration clause, no rehydration clause, I don't think. But yeah, I was going to have to rehydrate. He's not enough for the body to properly say it. I'm so good with it. Absolutely. So like the punch resistance, when you get hit with a jab, it feels like someone's hitting you with an iron bar. And that is a big problem because of the speed of Ryan Garcia. Speed and speed. And speed as you just said. As you just said. What I wanted to add to you was, fight where you are an acubacid person because you would make them weight. So you're aggressive, but the worst part about it is you've both, no, you've got the way that you went about through anyway. So when you see them at the weigh in and they're having a go, that's why I like to set them on your weigh in because they've rehydrated a little bit. And you can have a little bit of two of four.

8:09But the last thing you want to be doing when you're zoned on them scales when you've just made a hard way, because they're an energy. Is it any... Yeah, you're trying to just get me off as quick as you can. As you're going to be like that. As you know, it's like the mind game start well before fight week. And Ryan Garcia has been doing that and he's been prodding the bear and he's been poking at Connor knowing that he's that emotional kid and that he will snap. And you are an acubacid person when it's in that fight week. And it will happen. Well, let's hear from Connor being talking to Logan Pauli's podcast the other day. I think it's mixed, but a majority... Yeah, the boxing experts are favouring Ryan for sure. What do you think that is? Amitra Pedagree, Farstands. He looked great in his last fight, they say. He is the champion. So, you know, I'm just going to be without underdog mentality. Yeah. I think it's the best way to prepare for a fight. He's going to be without underdog mentality. When you're going to a fight, you know you're going to win and it's a walk in a park and you know it's going to be an easy, nice work. Where's the fear? Yeah, you're right. Where's the nerves? Where's the sharpness? You know, and I'll be there.

9:09So you go into it with your back against the wall, a little bit, feeling that way. Is there anything that you sitting here today can admit that Ryan might do a better job of the new? He's definitely got Farstands. He's got Farstands. You go watch out for that hook. Yeah. He's got a good hook. He's got Farstands, but I'm done just want to focus on the hook, because he might not be a friend of mine. He might not be a friend of my ad. You know, he's known for his hook. He's got a fast thought we've been working on. He's been working on on covering all bases. I can't just focus on one thing, but more importantly, I don't focus on him. I focus on what Connor Ben does. I focus on what I do well. My aggression, my tenacity, my ferocity, my spire. And I focus on what I do. You know, because I believe what I do can be any man. If Connor does it well. Interesting stuff in Connor there, Josh. We've seen Ryan Garcia for a number of years. We saw him come over here and doing a job on Luke Campbell. Back in the day when Luke Campbell, you know, was the Golden Boy British Boxing despite the defeats before he fought Ryan Garcia.

10:10We've seen him lose to Raleigh Romero. Yet we've seen him turn up, okay, no notoriety now with a Devon Haney fight. We've seen the quality of him at certain times. The speed essence or analogy that's being used in conjunction with Ryan Garcia. How does Connor deal with that? How can he deal with that? It's kind of hard because you've got to take time in it as well. So you can, you can, it's all good, very well good, having speed. But you've got to have good time in it with this speed as well. And that's what Connor's problem is. I think, I think Ryan Garcia has got good time in as well. So it's going to be quite a task for him to adjust to that speed and the time in. I mean, sorry, let me just ask this point because it's in my mind to it. I mean, I obviously saw the timing and speed of Moses Atoma get worn out on Philip Hugga, which is chin. Yeah. Is there a possibility in this situation that the same situation could replicate itself in terms of Ryan Garcia being able to work hard with Connor Ben and find himself tiring so that Connor can make up for the

11:13lack of speed that he has in the jungle Ryan get Garcia and beat him in heart? Well, it depends on the preparation that he's had. Depends on what kind of training camp he's had. Depends if he's had to work, if he's worked at 12 rounds pace at a fast pace, throwing all sorts of punches, being thrown on the ropes and wrestling and, you know, that's a different kind of fitness and strength for your pooling and prodding and all that. That's that's a more sort of strength one. So that depends on what kind of training camp he's had, really. We've seen Guarangas doing various guys. We've seen him, we've seen him against Javetti Davis who's an elite fighter, taking Carl Focci's words, not mind swallowing. We've seen him put an abject performance against Riley Romero. So we know he's capable of not turning up on the evening yet. We've seen him against Devon Haney. I know that is a no contest now. And we've seen him against Mario Barris, which is probably the weaker fighter in that weight class. How's he going to go about winning this fight as much? This is the thing that we've also seen him against Luke Campbell. And I've always used this example of if we were talking about Luke Campbell,

12:14fight against Conor Ben. It wouldn't really, we'd be favouring Luke Campbell massively. We're looking at Conor Ben on the back of the two U-bank fights. And he's deservedly, he's deservedly, by the way. There's a lot of pressure on him shoulders when he was fighting. They were fighting on the back of the dad's names. And he rose out of that and they made that fight very viable for themselves in their own right. But that doesn't then automatically translate to jumping in at a higher level again with someone like Ryan Garce. He ain't been able to use all that strength in that that you're at at 160 when you boil down at 147. Now it's going to be very difficult for him physically. We see Tony Simmons doing the work with him in a gym, but we also see the Stentic Edition and coach constantly by his side doing the work that he's doing. He was in the back of the video then when we saw Conor. The worrying thing for me when we just saw that picture of Conor Ben is his eyes is sunken with the very dark around the eyes. That's fluid. Now if that's fluid on the Tuesday of fight, you're not weighing in until Friday. You know, and if you're the old saying, one old saying, he used to have used to use the saying scorching the pan.

13:14If you low early on, that's a big worry for rehydrating. And again, people make the way differently. People do it differently. We don't know what, you know, what do you do? I'm not talking about it. I'm buying this one. It's nutritionally supplementally. Whatever he's doing for his wake, or how much he's going to empty the bucket the night before the fight. And then he'll rehydrate. For me, winning the fight, I think is the main chance of winning the fight. Ability wise, he said before themselves the experts and the puns of the analysis. We're not going on right here. We're not going on right, Garcia, from what we've seen on right, Garcia. We're going on right, Garcia. We've also seen Conor Ben as well. And that's no disrespect to him. That's not being nasty or sticking the boot in. It's heavily favoured in right, Garcia's favoured because he's a better fighter. I think the chances he has is by catching him if I knock on him out. I think the problem, Garcia, doesn't turn up, but is that power going to be there after boiling down so much? That's my only warning for the fight. The problem is that people don't give Ryan Garcia enough credibility for his boxing ability. And he has got boxing ability. We've seen that in the amateurs and the he has transferred over into the professional ranks.

14:15They did. Yeah, but now they've given you credit for the theft. I'm just talking about the infelge of justice. Everybody are talking about, well, because of the weight, that's what beats Conor Ben. There's a much more to it than just the weight. That's what I'm talking about. If you're looking at credibility and where these guys have come from and who's boxed at what level, you're talking about where the Ryan Garcia can survive if Conor Ben, can he get it tactically? Could he possibly blow a gasket? Well, what would he suggest he could because he's boxed at that level? Whereas Conor Ben hasn't. And he's got to concoct his conscious absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. He recognizes when put his foot on the gas and when to take it off. Luke Campbell is a great example, by the way, because he was an elite fighter. There should have been a world champion. In any other given era, he would have been a world champion. And if you look at the way that he beat... But we do know, we do know expense, we don't finish the Conor that he's got our soul. And he'll ever go. I was just to say that. I do like what I heard from Conor Ben. I like his attitude. He's not focusing on Ryan Garcia. He's focusing on himself and his strengths and his abilities in a way dismantling them. So I kind of like hearing that.

15:17And what he said he has... I'm going to do it bigger and stronger. He's going in the way that challenge or mentality, which I think is a good thing to hear. And what he says he has is in abundance as well. He's got a lot of tenacity, philosophy, intensity. He does have that. I hope the wake-up doesn't bother him too much so we can see that. I would love to see him go in and give him his gun on this to be a very, very competitive fighter. Absolutely. I'd love to see that. I mean, again, I don't like to do the parallels, but it has smattering of McLaren versus his dad. I mean, at that time, how do you rate Ryan Garcia as a fighter yourself? I think he's a very good fighter. I think he's a very, very good fighter. I remember watching him against Luke Campbell thinking Luke Campbell was in this fight and Ryan Garcia took away from him. And at the time, I was a major advocate for Luke Campbell and I thought he was a slick star. I thought he was going to win a world title. And I thought that Garcia, getting Garcia at that stage was the right stage to get him at. Obviously, we've seen all the issues with Garcia over the years about whether he's had mental health issues or whatever the challenges have been. Then we've seen him fellow against Devon Hania drugs test when no one predicted that he'll beat Devon Haney and he did. Now, I don't know how much the impact of the PDs or whatever he was sanctioned for,

16:19impact the opponent in the fight. I think I just got an under the worst tip, so it's probably the kiss of death. I just got a feeling despite all of my common sense and all of the discussions that we've had that Connor might make a dent in this kid. And because of the bend, there's something about Nigel and there's something about Connor that is an unbendable outlook. Despite the background of what happened with him and the failed test against, because you've been in the first fight, Connor, I know he went through a little issue of feeling very sorry for himself, but it's come back through the other side. They've monetized themselves beyond all fucking levels. And this is the first time now that we've got Connor's real credibility to put him alive now. One thing you have to take in consideration of Simon is that Connor Ben has not boxed at this weight for four and a half years. He's got this opportunity of the back of the course. What do they know that we've done? No, but what I've said is, what I'm saying is you're talking about this could be his time, but Ryan Garcia has proven at this weight. I hear you. And at this level, where it's followed in, because we've all set it for weeks on end, Paul, and done the same thing.

17:20We've sort of sneered at the fact he fights at one five four, because he doesn't want to fight there with Josh Kelly fighting there, or our boot sentence, because he's going to get no joy there. So he's gone to one four seven. But Garcia is an elite fighter, so he's gone there, knowing that the big threat for him is not being able to cut through the past. The opportunity was there, the money was there. But it was married to him. That's what I'm saying. So the money was anywhere for him, wasn't it? This is still probably the best opportunity for him. Oh, absolutely. You get Ryan Garcia on the performance, all the time against the remade, or you're flying? It had got it, it had got it at, like middle, though, wouldn't it? If it had gone in, because everybody wants to fight him, because there's a money in the room. Yeah. Yeah, if you put him in against your own in us, you look, that's... That's... But if he would be fantasy himself against Josh Kelly, I don't think that's Josh Kelly being my fantasy myself. No. Where are we going with the predictions on this, then? I think that Ryan Garcia will win the fight, just down to him acting to... Yeah, he's got balls, he's got heart. But that's not going to be enough to carry him through this fight.

18:21And I think that Ryan Garcia wins the fight inside seven rounds. Josh? I also... I'm of that sort of same opinion as well, but I also think it depends what kind of mentality Ryan Garcia comes in at. You know, if he's on it and taking care of business and on it, I think he dismantles Conor. I think, again, that same sort of opinion as a Spencer here. But I just think... Like... I don't know, I don't know. I just think... I want to back on because he's... He's in the game. I do want to back on, but also... Kind of don't as well. Kind of... Come on, sense. A lot of sleeping here. But I just think that... I think Garcia will be a little bit too sharp and too quick for him. Hope. What's he saying? A back to his dad against anyone. That was one of the favourite fighters growing up and that's a tea and that skill level that he had. That level was proven. I don't think he's there for Conor at that level. But Garcia is the perfect opportunity. I think if the weight is as bad as it's looking and as bad as it's going to be to get that last three, four pounds off, it's going to come from fluid,

19:24re-idering, and it will take an effect on his punch resistance and I think the speed and the level of power of Garcia could be over-aily, it could be middle-lump. But I favour Garcia. If he... If he commonsense as Garcia... I think, probably, as much as my head wants to steer into the bend cap because I like Nigel and I got an affection for Conor. I think conventional wisdom will take that will probably go down the route of Garcia. If he were to win... Yeah. ..out bigger ranking in terms of British achievements. Lloyd Hanigan, Donald Curry, Kael Brooks, Sean Porter... You don't... But Donald Smith against the Brahamer tyres. I think the last WBC World Champion we had was Lloyd Hanigan back in 1989. That's how far you're going back. When he lost to my brother... Or lost to my wife, yeah. At this weight. So that's the achievement. That's the sense of achievement. Look, listen, he's dad done it against all the odds as well. And Conor Ben may do the same. You can't write that kid off with this... He's definitely got more than a punches chance. Let me ask you a question about Conor's credibility.

20:24Because we've all sort of looked at it and put on this kid's manufacture. Which amounts of money being the best match fighter. Now, the reality is here now. He's got what he wanted, which is a real deal fight. If he were to lose this fight, as we project he will, how does he carry himself with credibility? What is a credible loss in terms of Conor Ben coming away with this, in terms of not having the balloon punctured by people going, see a told you, the moment he goes in against a top draw current fighter, it's over for him. What does he have to do in this fight to be a gallant loser? Go a bit like with due respect. And to the yards, reputation has been built upon. Go 12 rounds and have his moments in the fight and show... incredible, incredible balls. Which we know he can do anyway. But if he goes to 12 rounds and he loses on points, he'll come out of some credibility. We know now that he'll jump up to 168. Chris, you make Junior be the next fight after that for him. That's where the money in the room is. He's entitled to do that. But I think, yeah, it's... So moral victory, if he comes out losing on points.

21:25He'll gain a lot of respect if he has a good fight against him. He'll gain a lot of respect, definitely. Else we're on the card. We've got someone we all like, Giapataya, fighting Noel, Michalaliam. Yeah. Who? It's an odd one because we've seen him get beat by Bredis. We've seen... Who is... I mean, he's... This is what Bell is it for, Spencer? Right, so we know the Zuffer boxing belt is going to be on the line. We know the Ring magazine belt is on the line. But the one that we're uncertain of is Michaladians WBC title. Right. And I don't think we're going to find out until Fight Week, whether the WBC are going to allow the fight to go ahead or whether they're not going to allow the fight to go ahead. I mean, he won that belt from Badu Jack. He lost the previous fight to Badu Jack. To Badu Jack, yeah. And then he lost the 7-year-old Badu Jack. Yeah, absolutely. Michalaliam is a guy that is very capable. He lost a Maris Braiders back in 2017, 2018, I believe. Right.

22:25Yeah, but he's a capable... He lost the McCuba who lost the Tony Bell, yeah. Yeah. But what I'm saying is a durable... Right. A durable, capable... OK champion. Giopataya wins this fight inside 6 rounds. I think most of us will go with that pull. Where the all-roads lead... I mean, we've seen this conversation about Giopataya coming on our show, saying, you'll fight Chris Williams Smith, Chris Williams Smith would fight him and it could be with enough money on the table. Giopataya's conversation was just a million grid. I have a f***ing lot. I want the belt. Yeah. Chris Williams Smith doesn't have a belt anymore. Does it lead to Chris Williams Smith? And then does it lead to David Benavides? I'm not sure about Bill and Smith. I like Chris Williams Smith, obviously, he's a good fighter, but if you're not going to fight him when there's no money in there for a title... If we look up, you're not going to fight him now. There's no money there for no title. So if he does get the Benavides fight, you spoke about it on A before, Sam, and what a fight it would be. I'd love to see that fight. Benavides? Yeah, absolutely. We're an absolutely unbelievable fighter.

23:26Yeah. The main man and Benavides is... If he's planning on staying up there, then he's going to sign... The problem is Benavides, I'm not going to be saying he'd have no... He's probably been a big fan of the game. ...and he's saying he'd have no... ...no... no... no... no... no... no work with Zuffer, and obviously he wants the titles. And so that fight would seem to be a million miles away. Money will make that one talk about it. Yeah, because of the... yeah. What do you want... what do you want on Apertile? You're not going to talk so, are you? Yeah, in the end. In the end, that's all. In the end, it will. Yeah. And what do you want on Apertile? And the one criticism that we... The two points that I think that he's been in, that have been real testing fights, have been against Maris Bredis. Yeah. Bredis broke his jaw in the first one. In the second fight, he hadn't fought for the best part of two years. And he gave Gia Pataya a whole raft of trouble. Other than that, he's just walked through everybody. Whether it's Jack Massey, whether it's Elisoro, whether it's Jordan... But these are mismatched fights for the level of Apertile. What's your view of him? I think he's very good. I just think, you know, obviously he's got the losses, but I do think he's at that level. I do think he is up there. You know, he's had the losses, but I do think he is generally up there at that level.

24:29I do think he's very good. He's had that experience there. Yeah, I do think he's a very good fighter. Do you think he could be a problem at Heavyweight? I don't know. Because he has quite big leg. But... You generation of Heavyweight is quite a small level, aren't they? Yeah. Not your furies and your jaw shows up. Yeah, I mean... Yeah, not my possibly. That's an interesting one. I mean, the conversation when my brothers are on a podcast with big David Price, and he used the Great Line. He said, this isn't the generation of the Giants anymore. Yeah. It was the Giants in the past. Now you talk and you do six and a bit of something. So Apertile, I feel, if you were to move up, fill out a little bit, not too much to take away, too much speed. I think inevitably you'll be able to... Well, you look over there now. You look at... The old guard are going to go soon. Yeah. You've got Aguick, Habiel, you've got Daniel Dubois. You've got Moses Atalemah, despite his defeat. These are not Giants. I mean, do all pink-moves will be there as well. But why is Abbey Caveewick not... Yeah, but it's not huge in the last two years. But it's massive. Yeah, it's okay with you. If you were Giapatype, because Gi has made a lot of noise about wanting to unify the cruise weights and wanting to be in that situation, and it seems to have invaded him for a variety of reasons.

25:30And he hasn't helped himself to run, to some extent, because he vacated the IBF belt to fight in Saudi once, but sometimes he's one of the good paid. If you were Gi, and I'll know this is a weight class way above the weight class you're in, wouldn't you want to just bite the bullet, Josh, and step up to heavy weights? Because you know you're going to get paid there. Yeah. I would definitely do it, yeah. Absolutely. I want to talk move on to talk about a fight that's happened a couple of weeks ago that we've had an opportunity to discuss and pick the bones out, but you won't have done yet. And we want you to hear your opinion. It was obviously Moses' time as fight against Philip Hurgovich. Yeah. You would have now... Did you watch the fight? Yes, yeah. Yeah. What did you think of it? I thought it was good early on. Just... I thought it was just really bizarre how a run out of gas seemed to be after six rounds. It kind of started seeing the tank just emptying really quickly.

26:30And I don't think that's through to like preparation. I saw the bends getting a lot, a lot of stick for it for the training, but also think a lot of that stick should go to Moses himself as well. Sure. I saw a couple of interviews with them and they were asking me about his preparation and sparring 12 rounds and all that. And then he said they hadn't done a 12-room spa, which I think is insane. But isn't that knowledge so, Josh, isn't it? I mean, I would even know as a 21-year-old kid that it's commensurate for him to be doing 12-round sparring if his trainer isn't asking him to do it in the first place. Yeah, I suppose. I mean, I don't know. It's right what he said. Yeah, it's a... We don't know if Ben's asked him to do a 12 and he said no or whatever. You don't know what goes on in the bank close door. Any fight going into a fight, doing a 12-round up, would be asking himself questions.

27:31Because when you do a six-round up, you blow a gasket off the six-down. When you do it, you sort of adapt to it. I'm going to do a 10-12 round up. I need to do a 12-round to know that I can do it. Otherwise, you just don't know that you can compete at that level. So, I think it's so hard to believe that he didn't do a 12-round spa. I've heard that he has done 12 rounds since all this fall. I've heard that he was doing 12 rounds. And I heard that one... Right, okay. ...and your son just was in what he was saying was correct. He has done 12 rounds. So, therefore, if he has done 12 rounds, then for me, it is a preparation issue. Because if you're doing 12-round spars, you must be getting pushed in him spars. And again, there might be many lads that can take him because he's a phenomenal fighter. He's a phenomenal... But then you get other kids then to another big heavyweights. You do two rounds, you do two rounds, go out and make sure you push him. You have to go... ...a big believer if you have to go then, the gym to go there on fight nights. So, is it a preparation thing? Listen, again, he is that good. For my mentality, it's... He is that good. He's probably always been his own way as well. And the first time it wasn't his own way. And I had this criticism that Dan, you do, by the way.

28:31He'd blown everyone out in the minute George was stood up to him. I saw things that I didn't like. And that's why I said that at the time, and in the end, he's... He's gone on to it. You've aged and he's done absolutely brilliant since. And Moses definitely can do that since, but the first person that's actually stood up to him... ...has been called it after 7-8 rounds. And we all agreed. You pick Josh. I mean, that's a... You pick Moses so fast. Before the fight in your mind, I did. You pick Moses at the time. Yeah, I did, yeah. But I find it very hard to believe that... ...in every 12 rounds bar. Which, you know, we... I do think that's... I just think that's so bizarre. But maybe he was just... I mean, he was asked a question by... ...I think that's so bizarre and also the thing that... ...very hard to believe that Ben never... ...Ben allowed them to go on air fight. But there's a possibility that he was just saying it to the person that asked him. Yeah, possibly. ...for him off-send. Yeah, I mean... What we now do is going, he said he didn't do it, and he guessed. Yeah. What's that about? Ben Ben's a clever fellow. And Ben is a very good trainer on his own right. And I find it... 99.99% of that...

29:31They would have tried to probably... They would have made sure that it has done it and was fit enough. Ben, you guessed, Josh, and the ever-so-fun of our eyes tells us something. I think... I put them to experience and a lot of pressure from outside as well. What? You know, Ben and Ben in that spotlight and Ben touted his next make Tyson and all that. That's a lot of pressure. I put them on good. That's no hard experience. No, I hate you. But the one thing I would say is that we've now seen a... A coffee and a fighters that have been under Ben David's assistant's jurisdiction that have made mistakes in fights that have suddenly cost them. Fabio Wardle got his face bashed in by Daniel DeBoward, and stayed in there for two rounds, probably two or three rounds too long, despite Fabio's protestations. Ashley Joshua went into a ring. Got told a roll of dice and got knocked out... ...why the same trainer. So there is a reason why people are criticising him. As I say, a lot of people have been criticising Ben Davidson. The other day, Don Charles was talking on Fight Night about that, so have a listen to Don. Ben, if this is going to... ...hop your listening... You know, young man. To put your, what is it? A muscle? Yeah. Don't listen to these negative people, these losers, because they, they, they, they happy when they criticize and put a young man who's trying to make something of himself to learn a craft.

30:42Yeah. Trust me on this. Five to ten years time. He'll be one of the, because I'll be gone. People like me. Remember, I came through watching people like Jim and Teebs. Jim and Teebs. Yeah. All the great trainers who've had, let's forget the American, the, the trainers who've had in, in this country. I came through watching them. Right? I'm 65 years old. It's nice to hear another trainer defending another trainer, and I get that mentality. But people making critical observations are not haters and not people that are trying to bring people down. It's wonderful that Don says in five or ten years time, Ben, you're a bit at the top of your trade. Yeah, but what about the people on the journey? Right? That might have had some consequences as a result of that. What do you make? I mean, he got, Don, I liked Don a lot. You know, I liked Don a lot. And you know that I've given Don advice. Just to not say things when he had that fall out with Daniel DeBois, I fly out. But Don got right up on his high horse when he, when he, you know, we went berserk, didn't he? After when Daniel DeBois won the heavyweight championship, where he came on and wanted to serve people up. He was emotional, but he came on and wanted to go to a GFA Davis, which, by the way, gets my vote every single fucking time.

31:48What do you make of these comments from Don regarding Ben Davidson? Well, it was playing in. I said, we're all like Don, we've got all the time in the world for Don. He's a well-respected man in boxing and I knew he would defend Ben and, and Tyne defend his, his peers and his seniors, because he knows how hard the Tyne game is. And I see it a lot, by the way, and this isn't Ben, but I see it a lot. The fight to lose is just the Tyne's fault, the fight to win, it's the fight is, you know, credit and everything. Absolutely. And that's, that's how the game is. It is quite a fickle game. My big thing is that on this fight and on this, the Tyne and the Bar, I don't see what Ben Davidson does in the gym. You know where he does in the gym. So if your saying is a good saying, I really respect your opinion, I believe what you're saying. But I don't see what goes on in the gym. What I see is what's being said in the corner of Fight Night. What I see is the end product as in, is the fight to fit, or as he pulled them out too early, too late this time. Now, what I heard in that corner was Ben Davidson telling them to take it easy, take his foot off the gas, and then Lee Wiley in the same one minute break, two more rounds like Daddy's finished.

32:52It's conflicting advice in the same minute break, from two different voices and you respect the parent. And one voice. One voice. One voice. One voice. That, the little issues that we have is there. All we can see is what we see on Fight Night and what we see, the tip of the ice bag. I don't see what goes on in the gym and I'm sure, but there's a bit, there's a difference between a very good trainer, a good padman, a good cornerman. And just because you're a trainer doesn't mean you have all of them and it's very hard to get them with the boot up. I thought that the base from Ben was spot on, no. But do that base from Lee wasn't spot on. And that's the conflict in the top of the game. The problem is the line. The problem we've got guys is we're talking about preparation and we're questioning, was he prepared? Was he not prepared? We're not just talking about physically. We're talking about mentally as well. Now we talked about Moses at town, where the pressure on his shoulders being the second ever youngest, to have you wait to do it. All of that stuff, he knows that going into time he gets to the ring, he's already done six rounds mentally anyway. But he's not been prepared mentally going into that one. That's where the problem lies. I don't even know that it's physical because he probably has put that work in. If you haven't been prepared mentally and you're getting different signals in the corner,

33:56where one guy Ben was writing what he was saying to take a foot off the gas and he believed what I was saying, two more rounds, you're confused. You think the critical observations, and I don't like to use expression criticism because people keep running away and getting a little bit of shape and they're nickers and they twist about people making observations that are either right or wrong. But it has the criticism of Ben Davidson and his team. In your view, being fair, you know him, you've been in the gym with him. Tell me why, because it appears to me that you're making a case that Ben has done his job and it really should be Moses at the time that we're looking at for the failings in that fight rather than the trainer. If that's the case, I need you to tell me and introduce me into the thinking behind Ben Davidson, because I've just given you example of free fighters that he's lost fights against. You can come back to me and say, well hang on, he put f***ing up your board and it gets Joseph Parker on that fight. But we all know that Joseph Parker went into that fight and thought we completely the wrong fight to get the outcome that he wanted. So I've presented a scenario where I'm like, you know, maybe Ben, if I was only in the Premier League football club again and my coach done that sort of things, I'd say, well hang on a second, I've got the right coach.

34:58Tell me why I'm wrong and I'll be being wrong about criticizing him. I've had great experience with Ben. He's got me in great shape and all that. I think when I did start having a little bit of issues when you had another voice coming in saying something different, then it's changing Ben's sort of way of thinking on that. That's when it gets to conflict in the corner. You mean it's susceptible to having his mind changed by another voice? Yeah, possibly. I actually think that Ben on his own is a great coach. I think having that would say to help on all the other stuff as well as great as well. But there only has to be one voice in the corner and one done. That's got to be his head coach. And you know to add to that, the towel. Ben Davidson's up on the apron when Moses on the ropes. He's looking behind him to get advice on whether to throw it or not. How would foster stuff to fight in the towel gets thrown in?

35:58It's like, you're the head coach and I'm not slagging Ben. I'm giving him the kick of the... Your voice is final. You don't need advice from the other corner to throw that towel. If you think your fight is your job to do that, if you rely on too many voices around you, then it's not you as a whole. The whole that should be taken, the criticism as well. It's the whole setup and it's a team and they're always saying... But if you're a langler, it's the criticism. Exactly. When the success will, we all praise them. And when they don't get it right, we have to criticize because that's what we're doing. Again, it's not criticized. We have to point to that what we see. Absolutely right. I just think sometimes we're Ben's team. Sometimes they can over complicate things and make it too technical and make it too... Right. All these different sort of scenarios and all that. Like make something, make it... Yeah, boxing, making something simple. Make it a little bit over complicate things. Which is over complicate. The messaging ironically that Abel Sanchez was making about her, which he simplified. It took it to a very simple place. And in part...

36:59You know, that's a blessing. Abel Sanchez is a lot older and wise a man. Anyway, listen. Frank Warren was on talk sport the other day talking about this and other things. It's ever listened to Frank. He got a learn from that and the corners got a learning team. All of us. It's all pretty raw at the moment and so on. So we'll sit down and we'll have a debrief and there's got to be some changes. And there will be some changes to where is that. But one thing about Moses is an intelligent guy. He's a nice kid. He's got a very good brain on him. He will learn from this. I mean, it was all of all at the end of the day about him and fight management. Right. Frank is a slippery old... It doesn't see things that he doesn't mean. Right. So what is the changes that he's referring to? Because he's very, very, very, just Frank, make a slip. And he's made a couple of recent times where he's got to row back from. But he's talking about changes. So what would the changes be that you think is referring to? Well, he's obviously talking about the training team and the things that happened in the corner at the time that we all just talked about.

38:00You know, the, you know, the, the conflict of voices coming in. One guy saying one thing, another guy saying another thing. You have to have one guy. It has to be calm and one instruction. And that guy's got to be strong and maybe bend, maybe sitting in this situation wasn't strong enough. And I think they're the changes that he's referring to. Whether he means changing the team, I mean, only they know that. And that's the conversation that they're going to have. But what I think that Frank's saying is, look, I spoke to Frank about this. Yeah. And we had conversations. Yeah. And he said, look, we've invested a lot of money in Moses' town. And he's going to... He's going to be gone. He's going to be... Could he stand aside money for Frank's hands, actually? Absolutely. And he's going to, you know, we still believe that he's that kid. And he's going to be the next generation of heavyweight. Like, we all do, and that will probably make him a better fighter. But what Frank's saying is, look, you have to have the right person working with the right man. And so we're going to have to have conversations. You know, not saying you need to change the team, but it needs to be conversations, because everyone needs to learn and grow from the situation. I think that's where we're at with it. Absolutely. Frank, sorry about slippery old bastard. I know people get very sensitive when I mention the word older, the crappy old things like that.

39:02Let's talk about Moses' rebuilding. And what he needs to do from here, Josh. I mean, Johnny Nelson was on the show last week talking about maybe which would react poor, whether it go back to Joe Joyce, and having that as a fight, because Joe Joyce is a big fellow in town of him. I mentioned going for a European title and building it that way. What do you think the rebuild regime could be for Moses' to tell? Well, I spoke to someone about this last week, and it's quite a hard task actually there. If you're a Moses manager, because I do think he will be a world champion. I do think he is a great talent. I do think he is the future of heavyweight boxing for the UK. But it's quite hard where you take him from here. Because he is sort of European, French world level just now. I think the guys in the UK is probably too good for. And then the top guys at the top is just not quite ready for. So it's like, where do you go from here?

40:02Because the heavyweight division is quite shallow at the minute as well. We have poor, I mean, we have poor, not a bad fight. Is it? I mean, we have poor, European level, aren't we? We have poor, they have great fights. I think that's what makes this fascinating. No, you just said yourself. For the first five rounds, and I fight, he's absolutely well classed. But after the fight, we're thinking, yeah, French, you know, French world because he's just not ready yet physically. Now, he made me, after him first four rounds, he made me absolutely say and he's going to dominate the division if he can fix that engine and fix the fitness issue. And I think he's absolutely well classed and sensational. But if you're react poor, you're anyone who's a big strong tough heavyweight and you think, oh, I've got to do his job this kid to the last fight. Wouldn't it be, I might, if he goes into react poor? Because react poor, apparently, was the one that gave him the advice about the chin comment. That basically, a little bit of it's term, and I went, well, I can go to the galovkin. I've got one view on it. And who's got the other, which is the react poor? I mean, you're in the big some iron idiot. Yeah, it goes in the case with you. And we're talking about Richard being a rebuild for him. I mean, we're putting a little disrespect to Richard's name,

41:05because he wasn't necessarily, it was Johnny Nelson. I'm saying, he's incredibly disrespectful. Yeah, but you go, if that's going to be the rebuild, where would you go? What would you look to do in a British title? Maybe Richard React poor is a good fight for me. It's a dangerous fight. Of course it is. Richard React poor is a very dangerous heavyweight. Well, we just saw him do a lot of charity. I agree with you, Josh, that the rebuild is hard, because you need someone with some sort of credibility. You've got to work up. It'll be fast. It'll be fast. If this is good, it's what we think is. Which we do. It's going to come through. Absolutely. Absolutely. I found Mrs. Marajan, I know I've got a tricky job in my hands to try and rebuild them, getting back into that position, and just was. I'll tell you what, answer this question. Would any other head-coron-heavyweight at the moment of we've stood the shots that he hit with Philip Hergobitch? Take Hergobitch out of the equation. Any heavyweight durable enough to take those shots. So we might not even be having this combination. Maybe. Yeah. But it's an interesting one. We'll leave, maybe. Wardley possibly. Yeah. Yeah. Talking about Wardley, we obviously saw the presser last week for the launch of Dubois Wardley 2.

42:06Fabio was on talk sport. It's ever listened to what Fabio had to say. Did have a detrimental effect on me. I got a bit carried away on myself, but a bit trigger-happy. Just letting the shot go and not putting anything else in front of it, not trying to mask it, also not being too bothered about what was coming back my way as well. So yeah, a big part of that is being, of one, getting carried away in the moment, and two, just being a victim of your own success. I'm always fascinated by the sort of psychology of fighters. You're on your own, and you put yourself through, like I say, an absolutely gruesome fight. You were cut badly, but you're also knocked in down. You know you've got the power. You know that you've got it in the tank to hurt him. So how do you weigh up the sort of the fear of those wounds reopening, but also the ambition of finishing the job? Yeah, it's only focusing on the outcome of finishing the job. You forget the other one. You forget the cart or the bruise or this, that, the other. None of that. All that becomes a non-factor. What do you make of Fabio's comments there, Paul?

43:08I've listened to some of the interviews, and he makes a lot of the stock of the knockdowns that were, that he knocked down down on the second and third rounds in the second and fourth rounds. I thought both of those were flash knocked down, and I didn't think he'd particularly hurt Daniel, but he made a lot of stock of them. He also says he lost the fight, and Daniel didn't win it. It's another Ben Davidson fighter suggesting he might have been a bit gung-ho, and I'm just sort of superimposing what he said in this conversation. What do you think of what Fabio was saying? I think, particularly when he's saying, to be honest, he didn't win the fight, to be well won every round that he didn't get knocked down in. Yeah. And I think after the second knockdown, maybe it was the time to jump on him a little bit, but he didn't jump on him after the first knockdown. I expected that he would. It was early. And it was one of them, that was one of them fights when I think the similar in Lee Wooden, Mick Conlon, the knockdown was one of the ways things that could have probably happened to him, or the knockdowns in that case, because you're in fourth gear, then fifth gear going all the way through, and it's very hard to do that. Now Fabio Wadley can be forgiven for inexperience,

44:10or forgiven for bad tactics, because he came from White Colourball, back around in my opinion. Now that's where you do need the strong corner as well. And the strong corner helped him be Joseph Park, and everything else, so I'm not criticizing them. I'm actually praising them for that. But going back into this fight now, you've got to change a lot of what happened, and not let the... The trauma... The fatigue, the fatigue, the PTSD, the trauma of the beating that had happened, and I'm not being bad milder than I'm there, but it was... And you've got to be on it from the first battle. The tactics have to be better, rather than just jab right hook, which is all I saw, and jab right hook and time, land it up high again. You've got to be a little bit better to break someone like Du Bois down, because the minute Du Bois starts, especially this Du Bois now, this Du Bois with the confidence and the arrogance of him, which is a good thing, the minute Du Bois starts using the basics from the amateurs, whenever Wadley was a second, push out the range, and land it a shot. Yeah. You've got to have the answer for that. That's another big issue and a big hurdle. Tactically, Don Charles will be sitting there rubbing his hands to get a thing, and I've got your number.

45:10He says about making adjustments, and he uses, in reference, with respect to our friend Fraser Clark, Fraser 1 and 2, with respect to that, I don't think you can use it as a reference point for the ability to make adjustments, because you're going in against the fully fired, fully focused, arrived now at the top table and staying there, Daniel Du Bois. But do you think he can, Josh? Do you think that Fabio has it within his toolkit to make the adjustments to make the outcome different from the first one? Yeah, I think you can do. You know, just sit down and work on it. I think this is the most important part when you're out there, sort of, training camp. You're still in the gym, but this is where you work on these kind of things. When you work on them, little scenarios that went wrong in the fight in such situations, in the fight that went wrong, you've done wrong. This is where you work on this stuff, in the gym, and improve, and learn then. It's like, you know, a bit of a fool if you make the same mistake twice. So, I think that I think this is the right thing to do. It should be in the gym now, you should learn from that experience that went wrong. So, yeah, I think he can make the adjustments.

46:11I don't think he's one trick pony, is he? I think he has the boxing knowledge to be able to adjust. And that's what makes this fight interesting, you know, because you can't write him off. And you've got to be good, Daniel Du Bois and his team have got to be careful that they don't get overconfident because if you sit there too long with Fabio Wolley and get greedy, you'll see what happens. He's out in town. So, he knows he can hear to me. It can happen again. He's got a few doctors better than a bit smarter this time. He could be over. I think he's actually improving quite a lot. He's a lot for that. And Fabio, I still think he's improving on the way. And also, when we go back to Ben Davis in here, that's what that is. He's stripped Ben Davis and that he does tactically come up with ideas. They do the same thing. Yeah, they watch a lot of video footage and they will make those adjustments. Well, it's going to be fascinating to watch, because in the build up to the first fights, I obviously did the cold room with the two boys. We saw the difference in attitude and outlook and the confidence and the sort of facetiousness of Fabio in conjunction with how he can speak to the cameras and how potentially Daniel can't. Daniel might be more monosyllibic,

47:11but he's got the wind in his cells now. And I saw the back and forth from sky the other day. And Daniel's stick is getting stronger and better. He's getting more confident in the media. So, it's going to be fascinating to watch to see how it builds up. Fabio seems to be talking about the fact that it's more of a duck's back, given the fact he's been in the background of non-being involved in boxing. He knows what life looks like outside of it. So, I think it's going to be a fascinating set of contenties. What isn't fascinating for me is the consistent back and forward of the Fury Joshua fight. We've seen Fury and Eddie Hurn talking in the last week. Let's have the misfortune. Sorry, fortune of listening to some of the things they've been saying. Eddie earned cartpour all anything out of Wembley because he's not the promoter. He's in the contract that Eddie Hurn can't promote this fight. So, believe that, Eddie Hurn's a sausage, Dossa, he can't promote this fight. Daniel White from Altan is fight. Everyone's DMing me, going, can I just say, what you're doing is unbelievable, standing firm to these people.

48:11I'm like, well, how about making some noise about it? I'm talking about people in the media. And other people in the media are just going to just sign the contract. You know, like, but the reality is, everyone knows where it should be, but we're kind of the only ones with a backbone in the balls to say it and stand up to these people. And now it's working. So, all I can say is to everybody that's supported and AJ's, you know, these people, these snakes, went around the back again a couple of days ago to try and lure Anthony Joshua into American fight. Really? Yeah. And Thalup? No. Take care. Oh, wow. And now they've been served. You know, there will be served with a legal letter because these people are just trying to ruin the fight. And I don't even have to ask him, he really wants the fight. So, it looks like AJ has shot his pants yet again. After 11 years, he's finally shot his pants yet again. So, this would only lead me to a fight with Alexander Ousek. Alexander, you was trainer. It's not what he said. And you know he's a weak-minded piece of shit.

49:12I'm going to ask you a question, Josh. Are you entertained by this or bored by him? I am absolutely bored to tears of it. I think this feature that happened maybe two or three times over. I could have done it anyway. I kind of think the longer it goes, it's kind of getting like the Pacquiao, maybe the situation. It's been like 10 years in the making. And I think the longer it goes, I think it's already starting to fade to interest in it because it's been talked about for so long. And I think that the two of these fighters now are kind of the last couple of performances that are on the slide. And it's losing its blockbuster appeal. It's just a money fight, Josh. It's just a money fight. I think it's losing its blockbuster appeal now. And the longer this goes, the less and less people are going to be interested in that. But I'm certain the beginning of it was interesting. Who are you signing with Simon? I know you've been calling for this fight to be here. But AJ and his team are now digging their heels in. They look like they want the fight here.

50:12Yeah, well, it's wonderful to hear Eddie being patriotic. It's wonderful to hear both Anthony and Eddie, both of them tax residents in Monaco and Dubai, we're in the Union Jack underpants about where it should be fought. Wonderful. I think that's wonderful. Of course, it should be fought here. We all know it should be fought here. And if you had an arena and an auditorium that could put 300,000 people in it, 300,000 people would pay to see it. But it's not... But don't you respect AJ and Eddie's stance? So by digging their heels in because they have dug their heels in for that. Well, for the fans, to get it in. Come on, it's about tax reasons. We all know about what it's all about. It's about some of the money being paid into the pronger fight. Some of the money being paid into the fight. People don't want to pay tax. But does it possibly... That nice, more money having it here. Possibly. But look, the bottom line is that... The scale of this fight, we all lose sight over the reality of what this fight is really worth. And the only reason it's worth what it's being paid for now in terms of what the Saudis have prepared to pay, is because they're prepared to inflate it. If you look at this and say, what could this fight possibly be worth? The biggest pay per view by has been what? Anthony Joshua versus Joseph Park in 2018. So 1.8 million buys.

51:13So if you've got 1.8 million buys, the scale of that fight is what worth? 30, 40 million quid, plus the gate receipts, plus some sponsorship money. So it's a 50 million pound fight. They don't want to fight for 50 million quid. And I don't blame them. Why should they? They can get more money. They shouldn't have to fight for it. But let's not all go, oh f**k. Wonderful that they're going to come fight in the UK. Because ultimately, the only reason they're able to be in a position is because Turkey and the Saudis have decided this fight is worth 100 million, 150 million, and the two boys can walk out with 50, 60, 70, 80 or whatever they get. Now we don't blame them for that, but let's not dress it up, make it into something that it's not. Let me throw another spanner in the works. If it doesn't take place in the US, and we don't get it here, could it possibly land somewhere else? Well, if you really wanted to, surely, if you really wanted to see the Saudis at the maximum amount of credit, fighting Saudi, I thought, well, the other bleeding fights. I mean, the timelines are not so bad. I know that I want it in the UK because I think it's a British spectacle with British fighters and we should celebrate our stuff, rather than in the same way that I said, with Jewish specter Turkey, I said, I didn't like the Saudi flags flying over Wembley Stadium,

52:14not because I've got anything in me against Saudi, because it's our country. I think I should be promoting our values. I think the concern is that if it did take place here, all right, we've done fights here before, we've done twice and fury there, which is already in December time, but I think that it's all about the timings and to suit the global audience. They're talking about possibly a three-year-old start, November, free aim start is going to be... No, that's the complicate part. It's a piece of it, isn't it? I just think it's a UK fight for this party. Yeah. We sort of cater into everyone else. It's a UK fight. It's two British heavyweights that have been at the top of the game for a decade now. Because they won't fight for the money that... Well, exactly. But they're still going to get paid an absolute fortune, even if it's here in the end. People have probably watched the problem. The conflicts to be able to pay for it. But the problem is... The pain marks on where they want it. That's the problem. The problem is with respect to the two fighters, and I'm not dwelling on having a go-eddy at all when they often make the case. I don't mind Eddie and the slightest. I've got no issue with him. I admire his successes, and I think it's an abullot business. So there's no issue there. But this fight is not worth the money that they're trying to get for it.

53:15And so you have to have... So he has to give. Now, if they've got a contract as Eddie keeps referring, that it was specific and explicit to fight in the UK. Because I know that he wanted to fight in Dublin because of the attack situation in Dublin, gets you a tax break for entertainment laws and so and so forth. It's all about tax efficiencies. It's not controversial. This has been written about by other people. I said it weeks ago, and other people are now writing about it. So let's, you know, either accept the fact that it's going to be fought in America. But I'm not going to allow, with due respect, with due respect to people's perceived... I have a vendetta that I have against Eddie. I don't. The hypocrisy of two non-tax residents in his country making it a patriotic position. Come on now. There's a bit rich in it. Okay. Let's move on to something that was incredibly patriotic and meaningful. And bought tears at Nelly's eyes. The Ringwalk and KT Taylor's last fight at Crop Park. Yeah. Spence.

54:15Yeah. Incredible. I don't think you'll ever see something like that again, if I'm totally honest. And it was the fairy tale ending to an inquiry that started to appear in the past. if I'm totally honest. And it was the fairy tale ending to an incredible career. You know, this lady transforms women's boxing, the way that it was viewed, you know, the gates that it brings to women's boxing. So you have to respect it. What she's done, she's travelled to globe, you know, winning world titles, Olympic titles, European titles. I mean, she deserves the credit that she got here. And yeah, the ring ball was quite phenomenal. The event, the spectacle was amazing. And the performance was very disciplined, which I like to see from Katie Taylor, you know, at the ripe old age of 40, you know, to stay disciplined like that, because we know that she gets drawn into a fight. We know that she likes getting drawn into fights. You look at the Delphine Pesun fights, the man the Serrano fights where she could have made it easy, it was easier than it was. But she stuck to the game plan here, and I thought it was a punch-perfect performance

55:17and a fitting end to an incredible career. Amazing. As I mentioned, Paul, we saw Eddie walking in with tears. We saw, you know, a two-way, undisputed, well-champion-encated Taylor. We see the scale of these events now that, as Spencer alludes to, we saw a few years ago, Clarissa Shields come over and have a massive audience when she was a fighter in Savannah Marshall. Did you ever think, you know, when back in the day when Jane Crouch was being the standard bearer that we would now see women's boxing in this space, at this level? Probably not now, because boxing has always been a very male-dominated sport, and the females now, unfortunately, are still facing somebody as it's tough to get female-signed, you know, we're promoting because it's two-minute rounds, it's short of fights, the audience is still predominantly male and demand and male fights, and the big male fights bought. My two-my-bothers-of-fort on Katie's,

56:18under Cards, one was AJ's, under Cards as well, and Madison Square Garden, and this woman has dominated female boxing, she's spearheaded and paved the way for it. We build a column again last week, he speaks a lot of sense when he speaks, he doesn't speak much, said to her great-lime, she's done this in her 30s. We're talking about Clarissa Shields being a great fighter, and she's a great fighter, but we're talking about being the best ever. If Kit, imagine Katie Taylor as a pro in her mid-20s when she was probably in a peak, she probably left the best years in the amateurs, and what we've seen is the back nine of it, and she's still dominated and still for me, and again, another point was that, if you look at the top 10s in the way, she's beat most of them, Katie Taylor, she's been absolutely phenomenal. Who's the better fighter? That event was just suited to a team. Absolutely. Who's the better fighter? I know I'm not trying to be divisive, or do either one of them down, but who's the better fighter, Josh? Katie Taylor or Clarissa Shields, given that they're two stand-outs. I think the both of them are standing fitters, I think the both of them are great. But obviously I'm going to be biased here, and I think Katie Taylor, because I think she transcended women's boxing

57:21into the next level, and what is now, I mean, look, 84,000 people, and that's the number. Carl Frontje will be fizzin'. LAUGHTER Yeah, that's his 80,000 record of the window. Another point as well. Another point, my little girl was running down the stairs, looking towards Katie Taylor, to sit on the couch, almost all the bit, and she watches the boxing, but is now an member, she won't know who's on. She wanted to sit on what you're all like. What the... There's a video of Katie at the public work, I'll give her a young girl, and she's in tears, so she's a mega star, and she gives back, she's never... All the money she's made, the title she's won, the position she's had in her life, she's never got above herself, she's never changed. Yeah, thank you very much. You know what, yeah, she's very... I think she's a great guy. I think it's for the sport. I think it's that mystique with Katie Taylor. You don't really know the person, so that's what gravitate to you towards, wanting what to watch your boxing. You speak to her personally, but you think this girl can't have that inner, that devil inner, because the person that you speak to, and the girl that she's in a ring, and I think the girls are shields, by the way. I think she's done an incredible job,

58:22state side, and she's a different person, and the fighter. But she's been as influential as Katie Taylor. But Katie as well. Same team from day one, same right the way through, no changes, no not just business as usual. Shapo to Katie and whatever she does next, I'm sure she'll be a successful way if she turns her hands to. Dave Allen, on the weekend. Before I ask you, Spencer, I'll ask Paul, and then we're here from Dave. But what did you make of the Dave Allen incident on the weekend? I think it was there to see. Well, the shots were the back of the head, the second one was the back of the head. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm not having to go at Tom's card. It looks like he jumps out the ring. I don't think he does. I think he's belted on the back of the head. One would be forgiven for assuming that he's made the mail of it, but I don't, honestly, don't think he has his personal answer. I saw a camera and go over a felon. Yeah, and it's not a nice fall either way. I think common sense prevailed in the end, and it was the right decision to call on a no contest. But the shot on the back of the head,

59:23he does turn away into it as well. He does know what's coming to the tears away. It's not that heavy. I've got all the things here. It's not a lot of the calls and stuff like that. It's not that heavy of a shot, really. But guys, he took one, 20 seconds before that. Exactly, a big one. And a big one, 20 seconds before that. And that one there, and we know what he's like, when you get hit on the back of the head, when I was gloves, it disdains. Well, this is the thing you tell me your opinion. Let's listen to what Dave Allen said to Talksbalk. It was bizarre, it was bizarre ending to a great night. Croke part was fantastic. It was unbelievable experience for me. The fight itself. Yeah, still a son-off. I've been on the score run. And a few of the dads said, what was that all about? I said, I'm not too sure, actually. Son-off, sure. Now, feel me in. Yeah, so, as I said, 20 seconds before that there was a big shock landing to the back of the head. It discombobulates you when you get those shots there. You know, disorientates you. Like, your focus goes a little bit. And then that second one, we saw Thomas Carty. If you watch that, I watch it about 40 times at replay.

1:00:24Just trying to work it out. But you think, does he dive out the ring? Because that's what it looks like. But you see him just go a little limp, just before he does that. And I think that he's faculties are just left him at that moment. Well, I'm going to be balanced. And he just went here to balance and just gone the legs and gone. Now, the referee was not strong enough. Of that first shot that was landed, it was a big shock landing on the back of his head. He should have been pulled for that, and he should have been boluxed for it, because we've seen what can happen. We've just lost Pritchard Kohlen, and we proved those circumstances. Yeah, he is. And then the second one happens, he gets hit again, and yeah, he's got his head down there like that. But Dave Allen knows where the position there is. Yeah. And he clumps him in the back of the head again, and he goes out the ring. He can't dive out the ring. You wouldn't have the bolux to jump. No, I don't think he meant it. If I'm totally honest. So it was not staged, or he bottled it, or he fell out there. Thomas Kahi was... It was legitimate. Right, happened. He really fell as well. And the final first shot. And the final result, by the way, guys, that was called no contest. Yeah. But Dave Allen could have quite easily been disqualified for that. Yeah. Because of that way that it happened. And whether it was intentional or not intentional,

1:01:25the rules of the rules, and that's what could have happened. So, yeah, it's interesting to see what happens from that. And it was a frustrating, because it looked like that could have been one of the fires and a knife. And it didn't really get going. A fight we also saw announce was... Is not was. Is Josh Boetsi versus Willie Hutchison rematch for the WBC interim? I think there's more than just a WBC interim on the line. I think there's a potential that they think they're going to get elevated. And it will be four either at that time, or after the event that someone will get awarded the WBC belt. Yeah. But Wetsi versus Willie Hutchison. Josh, what do you think of that fight? I mean, the first fight we saw, we've seen them both have fights since then. We've seen Willie Hutchison change my view on him quite dramatically after his performance against Ezra Taylor, where we saw the quality of Willie Hutchison that I didn't think was there previously, and I've now seen it. We've seen Josh take what I consider to be a hell of a fight against his brother, Adam Smith. And I think that's taken a lot out of Josh, and we saw that in his recent fight against Zach Parker. It wasn't quite the same Josh that we saw previously. What do you think of this fight?

1:02:25I think it's very interesting. I think it's a good fight to be fair. I think it's a genuine 50-50 fight. I think the two of them are top-class level fighters. I don't think Willie Hutchison's quite shown his true class yet. I don't think you saw the proper best of them. And Blas is just had a hard fight there as well. So it's quite a hard one, you know. But I think it's a very well evenly matched fight, and it's one that I'm genuinely interested in. Yeah, not too. Because I think the two of them are class-act. Quickly cool. If Josh comes through this, where do you think he goes next? If he comes through it and he has the WBC title, if he comes through it, then he's a live-witch. Well, do the three belts or four by Bivol? I mean, brother, Kalam. So obviously you would not really want the winner to tie and unify the belts. And I'm sure Bivol was a blow. Your Kalam was a blow. It should be because it's the chance to unify. That's how it is. We have a win there. But again, it's a big if, and this is a good fight. Absolutely. This is a very good fight.

1:03:25And again, not kissing us again. But every credit to Queen's be for making this fight. Because it's a very, very good fight in my opinion. It'll be a good show. Before we close this show, it will be remiss of me not to ask you about your old mate Jack Catrol. He's pushing for this fight with TFM on Lopez. He seems to be getting marginalized again a little bit, which feels a little bit unfair for Jack, but it kind of is what it is. Does he beat TFM on Lopez? You know him. You know what I think it does. I think it does. Yeah, I do. And I've just been going on my own experience with TFM on, like for the first six rounds for me, it was relatively comfortable and easy. We've got to go on a hill, actually. But there's reasons why I took my legs, I couldn't prepare properly during the injury that I had. So my legs end up going, and that's what kind of cost me the fight. But it was relatively easy to box TFM on. You could see him coming, jumping in, and things like that. I got a second win in the last two rounds, but it wasn't enough then.

1:04:26But yeah, I think Jack or Winds outfete, and I think he runs it quite comfortably. Do you think he'll get his wish and get in the actual fight? Because he seems to always get... We're not going to revisit the situation with you, but he's had to fight a lot of fights afterwards when he fought Hogueel and Heres, and then he fought someone else, we just pro-agree, and then he fought ultimately on a babosa, and then he got done by babosa, and everything he's back to the back of the back of the game. Do you think he gets the fight against TFM? Or do you think he gets pushed to one side again? I'm not sure. I'm really not sure. You said he doesn't like it. You would like to think that he would get shot, because it has been there, done that, and he's proved that he's worthy of fighting for the title. So you would like to think that he does get shot. Okay, so... Right, Josh, thank you very much. That was episode 100 and native of Talkboxing with Simon Jordan, Spencer Ordon and Paul Smith, and of course, Josh Taylor. Nice to see everyone, and we'll see you guys next time around, which will be next week.