Cómo el centralismo se comió España (CARNE CRUDA #1613)

0:00The Toyota Tundra and Tacoma are built to keep going, backed by Toyota's reputation for legendary reliability. Step into a Tundra with the available iForce Max Hybrid Engine, delivering impressive torque and serious towing power. Or take a look at Tacoma with an available power lift gate, so gear goes in fast and the adventure keeps moving. Toyota trucks are built to last year after year, mile after mile. So drive one home today, visit Toyota.com to find out more. Toyota, let's go places. Viala, I've seen a lot of people. A lot, I'm seeing them now. They've come to help me to produce the car, and it's a very good car, which has a signature of podcasts. They've said they're not bots. They're not bots, but they're good, they're good and good. Well, the message I've seen. It's great, they don't let you get a very good message to the producers, to Robacarnecruda.com. I read it, since it's a girl. Come on. Tell me. They're a lot of the days I've been thinking of producing.

1:00I, because once I give them, but this time it's for me. I give them because I enjoy learning books, and because I want to take care of them a bit more in these days. Listen, I'm careful. I learn, I'm excited, I give them the book, I follow them. We're many, I know. And hopefully we'll be aware of that. We're many of the ones we live in, the fight of the right, and the dignity of the people. But one of the days I decided was with the program dedicated to the exile of Mercedez de Orrior. I'm excited. It was very nice. And another, I don't know if it's the definitive, the New Year, New World of San Thiago, Alvarrico. That closure with the King of Mago made me cry before entering the class. Well, what was that cry? I'm a teacher in Madrid, with what that implies. That's what it is for crying. Thank you. And congratulations to make the periodism that I was not able to imagine. A hug, health and Republic of China. What happened to your son? He put something in his eye. For being a teacher in Madrid. Well, that's why too.

2:00But that's why he said that we make a periodism that we couldn't imagine and that, for that reason, has been a producer. Well, at the same time, we also have the other 1000s of Ollente and they make producers in carnecruda.ed so that we can make the periodism that we imagine even the one that we don't imagine. In fact, we're going to do it again. Because we give you the moods of the peripheries. We're talking about the places where nothing happens. From everything that was out of that Madrid, from what the Cristina is talking about, that everything is done. Everyone has a family in Madrid. Everyone passes through Madrid, Madrid is from all, Madrid is from Spain, inside Spain. Madrid, what if it's not from Spain? It's not from anyone because of everyone. Everyone uses Madrid, everyone comes to a show in Madrid, and everyone passes through here. Madrid is not from Spain. Madrid is not from Spain, it's just one part of Spain. But the centralism is almost everything, and almost everything is vomited. It is assumed that Spain is a country

3:00decentralized, that we live in the state of autonomy and that power is distributed. It is assumed. But it is enough to look at a matter of money of the media, of the ministers, and of the great companies to find out that everything is conducted at the same place. All the paths take to the kilometre zero, to the center of the peninsula. The NFL returns to Madrid again. Behind the line of between Madrid and Barcelona. The news is nearing in Madrid. The formula one, comes to Madrid. It is a one-on-one ceremony to speak of a possible enviode of tropas. From Madrid is Spain, because Madrid focuses on the 78% of the national communication media. Where 91% of the institutional and institutional publicism ends. But that centralism is not only informative, it is also economic, financial. Madrid works as a aspire, a talent aspire. The community absorbs the half of the young qualified to up to 34 years that sell their province of origin. A aspire of money, thanks to its centrality and a fiscal dam that attracts the capital. The 20% of the interior product of the country is in Madrid, and the 65% of the banking assets

4:01of Spanish decides from Madrid. And a aspire of infrastructures. Spain has a road system and radio days. The second network of high-speed trains more extensive in the world. But it does not have a versatile network that connects what is in the media of the radios. And as we just saw with the accident of the ship, that's a problem. Everything goes through the centre. And in the case, it's a system, the system. Next station. Madrid, which is in poverty at the periphery, but also in a whole country. A system that talks about the previous Valencian Salvador in Giggs, in its book, the changed periphery, anatomy of a centralism that debilites Spain and the fragility of the territorial elites. Today we are with the periphery to talk about the periphery. And there I I

5:10We arrived at the periphery, at extremely hard one. With the blood and flights of the Guadian the formed group for Carlos Juan and Victor, three friends of the extreme Siberia, that they went to the city, in search of opportunities, they went to Cáceres and Madrid. But they decided to return to their homeland and they are triumphant from their extreme to what they tell them. This topic and this album. Revolate. Cáceres and Madrid. Para borrar la cosecha Y hacerte y esto conmigo Yo no moríe a amar Que cada espiga que en acá

6:11Volver a resucitar El Guadian es un río que desaparece y reapparece como las periferias de España en los medios Los sanguijuelas chupan recurso y viven de la energía de otros De periferias y sanguijuelas hablamos hoy Connectamos con Salvador Engigs, periodista delegado del periódico Lavanguardia de la comunidad Valenciana Y autor de las periferias mudas publicado por Barlin Salvador Cruz días Partes de la tesis de que aunque sobre el papel a España presuma de ser un país descentralizado Funciona más bien como un país radial ¿Por qué? Porque es así, pero hay muchísimos elementos objetivos que ya habéis comentado El primeros que no ha habido voluntad De desarrollar los instrumentos que permitía la Constitución del 78 Para que las autoromías necesir las periferias Tuvieran una cierta capacidad de conecición En lo que son políticas del estado que les afectan directamente a ellas

7:11Aquí tenemos, por ejemplo, caso la financiación o el diseño de las infraestructuras Y también porque poco a poco lo que yo de lo menos sistema Madrid Es decir, lo que habéis citado la gran concentración De instituciones políticas, económicas, culturales, etc. Más la radiabilidad de las redes ferroviarias Ha permitido que Madrid, bueno, pues vaya poco a poco Absorbiendo recursos talento que es uno de los temas me preocupaba Y que vaya y que esté logrando también como estabéis comentando Dominar lo que es el relato, decir, dominar lo que es Que se entiende por España desde Madrid sin tener en cuenta muchas ocasiones Que sucede o que debates ayer las periferias Que solamente horrar a veces son atendidas, etc. Cuando hay grandes tragedias como la lara, no? Por ejemplo, pero también es verdad que parte de culpa de esto no es de Madrid o del sistema Madrid Es parte también de la culpa de las elites territoriales

8:11Especialmente a la sociedad civil de algunas periferias Que no han sido capaces de establecer mecanismos de complicidad Para poder reclamar en el estado, al estado que satienda sus reindicaciones Claro, ¿cómo se conectan esas élites territoriales Que a las que el conviene el centralismo con la élite de Madrid? Es que el problema es que el diseño del poder en España Ha evolucionado en contra de lo que pretendía la Constitución El diseño del poder ha sido... Se dice ahí evolucionando a través de los partidos políticos Es decir, en España, el contrario de consulte lo que sucede en otros estados, digamos federales No existe un senado que pudiera ser la cámara que permitiera las periferias tener Una cierta capacidad de conecición que sería lo ideal O no se han puesto en marcha instrumentos que permite la Constitución Como la conferencia prescientes o conferencias sectoriales Que no se han ido desarrollando, ¿qué pasa? Lo que sucede es que al final los que trasladan esa capacidad de conecición a Madrid son los partidos

9:11Aquellos territorios, aquellas periferias que tienen partidos propios Son los capaces de muchas ocasiones desde el conflicto de condiciones de esas políticas Pero todas las periferias cuyos partidos, digamos, también están jerarquizados Como puede ser el PP o el PSOE que son estructuras cada vez más jerarquizadas No tiene apenas capacidad de trasladar dirábicas propias para poder influir justamente en aquellos temas que les afectan estas periferias ¿Cómo funciona el sistema Madrid? ¿Quién manda ahí dentro esos curo invisible como la mano del mercado? No, yo no veo una manonera, lo que veo es una suma de complicidades, es decir Yo lo que veo es primero la proximidad a los poderes No sabemos que la proximidad de poderes genera puentes que permiten, pues bueno, pues que el legislativo esté muy cerca del ejecutivo De que las empresas de LibEx Madrid concentra casi 70% a las empresas de LibEx Estén muy cerca de las administraciones, etc. Y per concentración, que en principio no tendía porque es tan negativa lo que está provocando

10:12Es que esta estén de alguna manera generando unas serie de decisiones En todos los ámbitos, político, cultural, mediático, etc. sin contemplar en la mayoría de cuestiones ¿Cuáles son las necesidades de las periferias ya? Yo no veo una manonera, lo que sí creo es una suma de complicidades y de intereses que van poco a veces construyéndose y que cada vez son más evidentes en una geografía determinada que es Madrid ¿Tú eres Valenciano, Salvador y presenta a tu comunidad como paradigma de esa periferia muda? ¿Por qué y podría dar no un ejemplo? Sí, porque yo la presento porque a mí lo que me motivó a escribir el libro fue hacer como unos tres años Hay un informe del Instituto Valenciano de Investigaciones Económicas, es uno de los más prestigios que tiene en España y en Europa Este Instituto elaboró un informe en el que demostraba que la comunidad valenciana que desde fuera se percibe como rica Está su PIB regional a 15 puntos por debajo de la media y es la mitad que el de Madrid y casi la mitad del país vasco

11:13Aquello me alerto y media también tribió tu informe que salió poco después de lidier como explicaba la fuga de talento Es decir, la comunidad valenciana tenemos una estructura universitaria de primer nivel Tenemos como la política o otras universidades de un nivel de formación excelente al nivel de las mejores en Europa Sin embargo exportamos una gran parte de nuestro talento y no somos capaces de reter lo que yo me llamó la atención Es decir, yo fue lo que me daba, me daba entender que pese a la imagen que se tiene de fuera Esta autonomía nuestra que además es la peor financiada del estado, no lo vivemos, es decir la comunidad valenciana Es la autonomía que aparentemente vende rica tiene la leuda más abultada del estado por PIB, 60 mil millones de euros Es la autonomía peor financiada, es decir, con un deficiencia de muchísimos puntos respecto a otros autonomías Aquello fue lo que me llevó un poco a explicar en este libro la situación que vivo en autonomía Que en estos momentos es paradigma, como poda ser murcia, como poda ser parte de Andalucía, como poda ser las vidas valiarias

12:18Como poda ser las dos castillas que cada vez más están siendo entre comillas Digamos perjudicadas por esta hiperconcentración de recursos y de poder que se está produciendo dentro de España Hemos establecido el marco del que también sabe mucho nuestro siguiente invitado Porque lo ha descrito, ha descrito ese sistema madri en su libro el estado feroz, el es Pablo del Ordui, coordinador de política del salto un medio Por cierto, creado con la agregación de cabeceras perifericas, Pablo Cruz días Cruz días ese centralismo es una casualidad histórica o es ideológica No, no, no, no, no, no es casualidad, no es un plan desarrollado… Muchísimos, vamos, hace muchos siglos, que se basa en esa acumulación de poder En esa proximidad de complicidad es de la que habla saludador Se va generando una serie de estructuras al comienzo obviamente ligadas a la monarquía y a la iglesia

13:19to develop what is the state, it has been said many times that Spain is a weak country but a very strong state and something like that and it is true that the islands that do not suit us are less than the ones that cover that flag many times are not present in our videos but the state in part because of that centralism because of that centralized design that does not have to do with the design that can have Italy in which cities have or have other asymmetries but but that have many many correlations in terms of power in Spain no in Spanish is Madrid and then there has been a competition of Barcelona that even Franco tried to overcome annexation of peoples to create the great Madrid so that also numerically Madrid was that superior to Barcelona that it was not half of the past century so nothing of casuality if not a well-designed

14:23well of the state strong and of the state that in addition remained always in favor of what has been developing as capitalism that we have already completely developed even in its authors and how much does that ferocity of the state that you talk about in your book is the persecution of dissidents of the peripheries in all the senses how much do you have to do with centralism much it is a persecution of the other of the different from whom there is a language that is not the of the empire of the villa that is the short one better said of the empire effectively and and the one who wants another another other agreement another social agreement and we talk about societies that have demanded this we do not talk about groups we do not talk about minorities but societies that have wanted and that they still want another treatment within a different concept of Spain and possibly a republican concept in the

15:26broad sense of the term of course that persecution because it is also in this relationship or the war is also in this relationship with that persecution that is to say that the constitution of the 78 had a federal role similar to the German model but the system remained incomplete Salvador what part of that federalism has never been built the constitution of the 78 had a fundamental role of the list of other reasons because when he designed here he looked at a lot of the social movements of the German democracy and the German model of what he said is what he was talking about before that is to say once he tried with this constitution reequilibral the territorial map what happened is that the following years little by little this will be there where he has been growing in fact now we are in this very contrary scenario we are in this scenario where I observed very recent realisated tendências in fact there is a part in Spain that invoked by really the state of the authorities and the recentality of the services so I had to comment on it I think that the first big problem has been that

16:30those institutions that have allowed the peripherals to have both and even in Germany with a short time like in Canada, even in the United States, that had a capacity of codecissoria in the areas that are directly affected by this in Spain has not happened and all the possible instruments that allowed the structure of the state of the autonomies are causing what happens that at the end I then observe for example in the dance of Valencia the perception that there is is a disappointment with the autonomous state we have seen here in a very clear advanced state and every time the feeling that the state that a state centralized can solve the problems better than an autonomous state this is a great honor in part by my political opinion that in Spain I do not want to try to develop correctly the autonomous state yes in fact the scenario should be a camera of territorial representation but we see that the practice works as a translation of the congress and in fact it is used as a political part of the popular game that has the majority there and something

17:34similar happens with the confederations with the confederations of autonomous presidents that is used for the partivist battle as we see in the last meeting your Salvador Ablas of the autonomy of tuteladas due to the current financial system of autonomy because that word tutelada when an autonomy as a currency currency currency and the valid areas including the need of the flat is that of the bottom of the autonomous liquid to be able to cover a large part of public services the problem is that the flat has the state of criteria that is, you do not have the political autonomy to develop own policies because you already have the urgency to keep the minimum services that is why autonomy is tuteladas by the state that is if the state is the state who impose the rules to advise you to believe in the flat to be able to continue to insist if you do not have another you do not have any other capacity to be able to act for me this is not an autonomous state, the autonomy, that is, it cannot be that there are

18:35autonomy that have a capacity of maneuver a large capacity of maneuver because they have to end correctly their services while others are every month thinking if it reaches or does not reach the flat of the authorized by the government, that is, for me this is not an autonomous state, in fact, it is an autonomy, if not tutelada, we say yes well, it is an autonomy that depends directly on the government of turn this device does not convince the flat or give it to you when you need it. In fact, the advanced community has to have a private company for a secondary liquidation fund to be able to do the front lines of the wool, that is, I think that there is an incoloration and a dysfunctionality of the autonomous state. And apart from the financing, the territories are so strong of real political representation. Yes, what happens is that of course the political factors that also in recent years I also have a phenomenon that interests a lot the subject of the sun, the sun has been traditionally a

19:37party of a federalist soul. However, we have seen the last times like the sun, it is also that sometimes it is a more hierarchical party that even its federal organs do not have any capacity of the story to which I am, that is, from the general secretary. Well, this is that it is provoking that the great parties that have representation in the peripheries or they see more to the hierarchy or they see more to what the party says, the centrality of the party, that the interests of the people who are watching, right? And to me, this seems to me to be concerned, what happens to those autonomy that have parties, which are capable from the conflict of the government that obtain benefits or have a bilateral advantage at the time, both financial and structural, that the other peripheries can not have. And not only happens with the traditional parties, I also speak, I pass with the parties of the change. Yes, yes, I think we are one of the teachers, if we want to speak positive of all the

20:37big players, that if there is no territorial organization, it is very difficult to take a project from the transformation for the set of the state, it has been more a kind of pegote, it is the sum of alliances. In fact, it can be seen at the selection of Araban, as two parties that were in summed separately, three, we can include in summed in that selection in general of 2023. There is a difficulty and it is that you can not reach, as if it were a viajante, as the viajante. With a Furgoneta and devolving the word that you are federalist, you can not reach the places, devolving the word to go to the next place and do it. You have to make a more serious construction and thinking together. In fact, did you have to think together with the peripherals to build a medium as high as possible? Yes, and it is still difficult, because there are also many asymmetries,

21:39there are places in which it is a collective process, that with which you can share that thought and others, those who first the periodistic aspect and in the end, looking for something more similar, a response there, etc. And even if you want to be Madrid, even if you want that systemic Madrid, you are put in the veins and you are put in the brain, and it is very difficult to get out of it. Yes, because the agenda is marked. And we want to get out of that agenda and look at it in that Spain that is not used to get out of the press. And as many other things that the best has represented is Panto Mimafuri. I lived in Madrid and I came here for a tour and at the end of this, yes, you notice that it is very small. The people here walk with a gun, I go through the street, taking advantage of everyone, but I swear that they put me nervous. I went to the world that, at least, you have to have a time. It is that you change, the disease that comes out and that everyone knows you, you are always the same imagine in all the places, the same. The Wednesday has passed, came out and they were all closed. Madrid is a

22:41pass, they want to leave a miracle, they leave a miracle, they leave a miracle. Madrid is a pass. Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Sevilla and Zaragoza are the only five cities in Spain that exceed the 600,000 inhabitants. But if we zoom in, the population only reaches the seven million people, less than 15 percent of the total population of the country. Spain has been counted for many years as a country divided into two. On the one hand, the great city and on the other hand, the name of Spain was empty, but in the middle there is another Spain, much bigger and apparently more silencious to the provinces, a Spain in which it seems that it never passes anything. But in reality, almost everything, precarious, youth migration, industrialization and a constant feeling of being out of the sea. A species of third Spain. If we had to make a functionalist and organic comparison of the territory, the cities and its inhabitants possibly would not be the heart or the brain, but they would be vital organs for the functioning of the organism. In general, these cities are usually forgotten by the great cities or public agencies.

23:41They only appear in the media when something misfortune, crime, anecdotal situation, consumerism or trans-boticism. On the third of Spain, the Sergio Andrés Cabello, who is a professor of sociology at the University of Rioja and author of the essay, Spain, in which it never passes, Periferia, Intermedia, and the city of media and small. Sergio, I think, good day. Good day, good day. Help us to cut it, which is the Spanish that it never passes. Well, really what you have described, are those cities, the cities of media, small, those periphery regions, as you also commented on Salvador, they are territories that are being kept in that land of no one, that many times, well, in the end, even that situation of periphery is going to be developing more and more, especially with everything that has happened in the last decade and a half, which, in addition to what you have commented previously, these historical, ideological factors, would also have to coincide a lot in what is happening in the last 15 or 20 years

24:42with the dynamics that are not only unique to Spain, but also to the rest of the Western world. But it is true that that city of media, small, those good cities that we can talk about, between a very heterogeneous, very diverse, well, in the end, they are not in that agenda or if you want, you have this part of the great metropolis, the great cities, but then you have this system of intermedia, these are the particles in the country, you teach them in the essay that some of those small and medium cities are leaving to function, which are the reasons some have already said, and which is the diagnostic right now, which cities like, for example, the Tuya, the last year. Well, we are the same, I always say the last year, because it is a city that we are not so bad, because before we had to have been autonomous and the fact of being a provincial autonomous community has allowed us to have a structure also in the administrative, even the political, but if it is true that there are other territories, other areas, such as, for example, I think, as you said, Salvador, also, in some places of Castilla, for example,

25:43Teruel, West, etc., which are cities, where if it is true that sometimes this scenario, where there is a management of the population, where the main employees are public services, where the desindustrialization of the water that had already practically disappeared, even indicators that are very present, as it can be the source of great stores, great chains that in a certain moment, they became like a modern cinema, and now, suddenly, it is all the opposite, and if it is true that it is declive, especially when you travel through all Spain, and when you have touched a lot with the book in these years, it is when people tell you in these places and what we are going to do here, that is tremendous, that is a very painful situation. Of course, and what can we do there? What do you live in those cities if they are desindustrializing, if they are going through the big companies, if they centralize everything in the capital, and everything that has been there, it is going to be empty. Of course, there are also cities that have already been touched in that sense,

26:45that is to say, this is the end, it has not been balanced, but it has been very asymmetric, but obviously, on one hand, as I told you, there are many times, which are many places, where the hospital or my university is the one that has a greater number of employees, and then, of course, the bridge that I do not want to here, I do not want to criminalize, sorry for the altruism expression, but the bridge, obviously, for a series of sectors, and sometimes they are also present, as this is what you are going to save us, but well, it is true that it is very little sectors, and how they tell you, I think that many cases have produced a bridge for the tourism that after the pandemic, not only this that appears here, it will transform, it will change, but it has accelerated much more, I insist that I do not want to criminalize altruism. I want to take advantage of saying that, we spent the other day, around the program that we did in Pamplona, well, in Navarra, and you have a piece of station of autobuses,

27:45which is all flippable, you also have to say it. Yes, yes, no, it is being autobuses, the island of Granja has been for a few years, really, it will be very different, but if it is true that I think one of the questions that you have clearly shown, and that it is a mental issue, the whole issue of communication, and that country that we have to radiate, and that, obviously, will generate a lot of islands, a lot of islands in all the territory. Well, we want to talk about that, to try to caution those two Spanish in 1992, inaugurated the first line of A.B. that UNIOMADRI con Sevilla, and since we have talked many these weeks, for the tragic development of Nada Muth, which has taken the life of 46 people. The A.B., with a radio design, promised, as he said, the Lugand de Renfé, to cut distance and close people. The first train of high speed in Spanish has been affected this afternoon, the first official trip between Madrid and Sevilla, which has been a duration of two hours and 52 minutes. From what? From the train. Salvador, what effect has this had? We have not used hyper-mobility.

28:46Spain, years ago, made a bridge, a bridge, a bridge for a radio model of infrastructures. Almost, almost, Jacob came as the French, in a way. And the problem is that he has forgotten or betrayed, in a brutal way, what is the generation of a Spanish Maya, which is the infrastructures, in Valencia, for example, we take 25 years fighting to conclude the Mediterranean corridor, and I give you an example for you to understand it. If we do not have Mediterranean corridor, or if we had already the point to end, surely the use plant, of course, would not be used, and surely the vast majority, which will be installed in Bosnian, in the future, would not be. That is, infrastructures determine the future of productive sectors in Spain, and also determine social and personal flows, as well as Sergio knows. That is, if you do not have infrastructure, you do not have mobility,

29:46if you do not have mobility, you will have competitive capacity and transport of market and passengers. Therefore, we have achieved a radial Spanish, the most expensive of the world, in which all the capital or almost all are connected with Madrid. However, we do not have a Maya network that allows us to connect sociologies, that have a great potential, as productive as a human development. And that, for me, it is one of the big challenges that Spain would have to solve in the next few years, although I do not see political development. We do not see it. In fact, we talked about it in the special program that we did about the Spanish railway system, from the action of Amuz. And, for those trains, they reach cities like Madrid, Barcelona, Joven is looking for opportunities to work. Joven, in many cases, have formed in the universities of that Spanish periphery for those who do not have opportunities in that province of origin. Juan Juálvarez won the organization Acción Castilla y León, a association that since 2009 has the goal of giving visibility

30:46to the youth migration, to the investment and the lack of opportunities to work in his community. Juan Juáco Cruz, how are you? Hello, good morning. How are you? How are we? I suppose that all this you are listening to sounds very familiar. Yes, totally familiar. The truth is that with the experiences that are commenting on the previous exponents, it is something with what we also since we started as a association. We have tried to get closer to the public opinion, especially Castilla and León. We started in 2018-2019 thanks to a study that was made in the University of Barcelona. Where he said that more than 40% of the students of Castilla and León worked out of Castilla and León, which is more than the double of Spanish media. Almost one of the students of Castilla and León has to be found. That in the end is a process of growing up. It is a process that helps other communities, especially the community in Madrid who is receiving work-related work, in which it has not been a hard task in their formation,

31:49to cost money. And in the end, what you do is that you land like Castilla and León, which are other regions of Spain, also suffer in the same way, because they suffer a vacillation, faulatino, and an endexecimiento. We are going to talk about the causes of that, precisely because Castilla and León is one of the communities that has become almost a periphery of Madrid. More than half of the young people of Castilla, León has higher studies above the Spanish and European media, something that the president of the University of Barcelona of Mayot presumes. Castilla and León have the best educational system of Spain, and it is also among the best educational systems in the world. And that is a pride, as I say, pride for our educational system, pride for our education. What does it fail for that pride not to be brought to what happens in the community, that is failing to form talent, means losing it? It means that there are no lab opportunities in Castilla and León. In the end, the statistics tell you, of course, more than 40% of the young people who study in Castilla and León

32:49have to march, and the preferent destination is the community of Madrid. In addition, in the interior peninsula, the community of Madrid, just is surrounded by two great communities, Castilla and León and Castilla, the Mancha, which are young people's sportsmen for the community of Madrid, and also energy sportsmen, which is something that we also want to warm up because the community of Madrid produce the 5% of the energy that consumes, while the two communities are adjacent, Castilla and León and Castilla Mancha produce more of the double of what they need, where all this debate is about this youth and energy to the community of Madrid. In the end, what we believe and a little bit by saying what the other opponents have commented is that instead of that centralism that is not good for Madrid or for the communities around because Madrid, in the last 20 years, has gained more than 1.5 million people, it is a barbarity, it is not a barbarity, and where is the whole population? Apart from the immigration, also by the young people that goes from this community towards the interior.

33:50And we believe that it is much better a disarrowed development where there are intermediate cities that sustain the population, that can give a more similar development to Germany in the interior of Venezuela, that does not develop a little South America or as an Argentine, where the province of Buenos Aires is more than 30% of the population of all Argentina, which is a bit like what we are going to do. In the year 2022, in an educational act with vocalist and a selection of parallel, whose offense was the one of the 369.416 Castellano-Leones in the Spanish capital in the Spanish capital. And there are years rebinding measures against exodo juvenil. What are the measures? What are the solutions? In the end, in a situation of of the population, like the one that suffers Castilla y León that comes from the 60s to 70s, that is, it is not 4 days ago, it is from the development of the 60s that began to do our land. There are multiple reasons. There are infrastructures, as I mentioned in the previous episode,

34:51we talked about the car of the village that takes 30 years of delay with government of the Popular and Socialist Party, a car that was going to join Castilla y León and that there was going to be from Portugal towards France, greening the whole community, because it takes 30 years of delay. That in other communities, we are sure that it would not happen. These are also the theme of the software. In this aspect, there is something that we believe that it should be done, that it is a state pact, a state pact for the interior peninsula, because at the end of Castilla and León and Castilla the Mancha with the community of Madrid, we cannot denominate peripherals. As such, we have some historical vincules, some cultural vincules, that are evident, we are more or less the same, so to speak, although we do not separate administrative frontiers, and we believe that it should be done in a state pact, because what it is going to be, is a legal policy, that is already for seven million and small, and in fact, it was talking about

35:52that the management was going to arrive to the ten million inhabitants surrounded by two beds, more embossed, and more despoiled. This, as an incident, is not good for anyone. It is not good for the two beds, Castilla and León and Castilla the Mancha, because at the end, there will be two territories that are more despoiled, and more embossed, but it is not good for the people of Madrid, that is, I talk to people of Madrid, and he tells you, it is that since ten years ago, there is no one alive. There are more and more schools, the public transport is going to prevent, and do not hesitate for the doctors, if they give you, for specialists, for a year. In the end, it is also for many people, who have gone to the community of Madrid, because in their areas of origin they do not have respective laborers. So we believe that there should be a pact of some common policies among these communities inside the peninsula, so that the Madrid community does not end up preventing people, and so that all of them are subjects that are adjacent to them,

36:53because each time they are being territories more despoiled. How many areas do you have? The truth is that we take the test of that pact that is needed, and it is true that it does not only suffer the peripherals, it is that it suffers Madrid with those accumulations of people, which is also noted, for example, the prices of the living of him. That we have already talked about, innumerable times. Juan Juan Alvarez. For the voice of the organization Action Castilla and I thank you very much. You are. The situation of these migrants is more complicated with the conditions of life in these great cities. For example, with low salaries and with the difficult access to the living area. This also gives place to part of the people who can allow the luxury to move to Madrid, Barcelona, to work in qualified professions are higher social classes. This is written in his essay, in Spain, in which nothing happens, about the internal mobility, of small and medium cities. And about migration. I do not know if it is producing a, at least, a fluid, a fluid of migrants

37:55in search of work in those smaller cities, where the living area, for example, is more accessible. Well, it also depends on the sectors of the productive sectors that you have around you. Here, for example, in territories like the Rioja, in the end, the primary sector is very important and this has given us a transformation in this society, where currently the percentage of foreign origin origin is 15% and 10% but the migration in the interior that we said earlier and are more present in what would be in this case, the size of the city of Madrid. Because, for example, in other territories, as we said, with the Castilla and Leo level, the Castillas level is quite different. This is very interesting because, as you said, Javier, in that sense, it seems like there are cities and small and medium cities that have a lot of opportunities, at the level of quality of life, but then people do not come here, neither do they come here, they do not come here, or in Asoria, or in Apparencia, or in Zamora, or in Teruel. So, what you have commented, we have been commenting throughout the whole program,

38:55because, in the end, that we do not want, it is true that Madrid has that focus on attraction and that intensification that has been produced especially in the last 15 or 20 years. Because I think it is true that, apart from the structural things, what has happened in the last 15 or 20 years is also definitive within the globalization, within the great metropolis, and I think that the opportunities are also more and more focused. And, before we said, well, not only those processes that have been seen for a long time in those very interesting and interior levels of Spain, and even in territories like Valencia, such as Cadi, such as, well, that you have to go to Madrid and, of course, that's what I try, that I try too, that both qualified jobs, well, qualified jobs, as they said, as not qualified, there is no greater offer, which is still doing, well, it's a nightmare that is death of the school, and as Juanjo said, I think we need a project of a country, a project of state that is affected the social and territorial cohesion and we are generating a scenario, well, the truth is that it is very complex. Of course, this system, Madrid,

39:57as it is tensing to the peripheral communities, as it is generating layers of inequality and a feeling of abandonment. And it's a nightmare, Extremadura is one of the autonomous communities with less migration of people not born in Spain, we are going to say, in part, for a secular abandonment, and however, Box, which had a very good result, of what it speaks of migration in terms of not of the people who are forced to go out of Extremadura. And however, the focus is putting Box on the migration that comes is a artificial discourse about demographic environment, about the big area, etc., more or less decorated, when the problems are completely different. We have to dismiss the attention towards a respiratory child, in this case, the migration is very big. I want to put a focus

40:57on a problem that is not, because Madrid, in the end, emanate. Of course, here I have to break a race for the other Madrid, which is the one we live in, which is the one of the villa, not the one of the court, but in the end, it is that it results very difficult, also in us, as I said, to remove that fat, all that oil, let's say, that it generates the star where the power is. Salvador, how do we break with that Madrid system? How could decentralize the country? Well, I think in these moments there is no political struggle. I did not read it, I saw it in the U.K. years ago, I was told that I think that the tendency is the opposite. I think that the tendency that every time vayas is generating a climate opinion, erroneo, in which it thinks that by centralizing services, or reciting, centralizing the capacity of the state is better to give answers

41:58to situations that happen in the peripheries. Therefore, first I had to see political struggle. So, I not that it is pessimistic, but I think that the context of the current environment does not encourage to change in the next few years. I would have to really need a state pact as I have said here, that I did not see in these events that it is possible. And in fact, the two peripheries that more autonomy have, when they have lost more autonomy, they have generated a tension of the state and a strong relationship of the central state. You are talking about Yuskadi and Catalonia as two exceptions. Of course, but what happens is what is sad. It is that the state of answers to the certain peripheries from the conflict not from the high. This is what is lamentable in Spain. That is, this does not happen in any federal state. If there are these mechanisms, there is no need to come to conflict. That is, you do not have to wait to have a nationalist and independent nationalist autonomousist

42:58and regionalist to pressure the government of turn to achieve great contributions. This is what is a great anomaly of democratic space. Salvador Engigs, author of Periferia Muda. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, we can invite you and all the colleagues that I have been here commenting with me. Yes, the same thing I say to Sergio. Sergio, I recommend deeply the reading of the book of Spain is the one that never happens of being a third hair to which he also sends a hug. Thank you very much. A hug for all and all. And by the way, you wanted to put the hug, right? Come on. The arms, violets, violets. The arms, violets, violets, violets. Well, well, I have already answered. I want you to count. Several things, starting by the usual ritual. Andalusia has 8.6 million of inhabitants, practically the same as Switzerland or Austria and also Israel a little less than Greece. And the mediatic system is worth it. We all know that. And not by lack of tradition, the freedom of press a November 10, 810 in Cadi

43:58because shortly before the PEPA the Liberals' courts approved the right to print and abolished the previa censorship so there was the modern period in Spain. Hello. And I don't think it's the case that Cadi is today the province of Luzha with more than half of the inhabitants where two of the large group of communication of Luzha Yolí and the publics of the south and the second private period of the PEPA which is the Cadi diary. But... What is it worth? For nothing? It's worth it. It has some localities. With the structural role of Europe, they are at the tail of Spain in the hope of life. In slow-moving, but I think we agree that they have a relationship. If so. A province capable of counting itself sending an image in itself of maintaining a social conversation about what is Cadi and its people. And that has helped to have a carnival with an artistic and political and artistic level. And that has helped to have a carnival that doesn't understand how it has been programmed in all of the Spanish television of each February. So Maya, what she has today, is the possibility

44:59and the need for the territories to be counted by itself because if not, and this is not forgotten, we will never enter where they are calling us with the sound, with the education, with the living, and that they are calling us, that will never harm us. And another thing, there is no way to open up a newspaper or put a radio in the end of the end of the season and not listen to a chronicle. At the minimum, very detailed of the week or of any other thing that happens in Sevilla. Or the two things at the same time. Yes. Which, for the case, is the same. Yes. I'm sorry that I'm not relevant, but I'm better sent out. I was singing the Disappearance of Juan Carlos Aragón in the Church of the Church of the Church. I'm listening. But I, from here, I invite Andalusia to rise by two things, at least by two things. Attacking the flirtation line of the political regime of Andalusia. One, the week before, two, we enter Sevilla.

46:01Pablo, what do you think? Pablo Breveven is about the informative center. Each of the communities has its center and where they are going, all the audio is all, but it is that we do not take the palm, it is that it does not make any sense. And it means that it does not speak of the rest of Spain and it speaks only of what is happening in Madrid. I think that, in addition, the social networks have exacerbated it even more. This from Nieve Madrid, I'm not going to tell you before, it did not happen, but before, it did not stop happening in Madrid. And then we will talk about the autobuses. They are calling. Yes, but now it is, it is agotator. The deputies of the parties mainstream alpha of the system, etc. do not even have to represent to the province because they have been elected. And that is problematic. Pablo Lorduy, author of the State of Oferos and coordinator of the jump. Thank you very much. Thank you very much to you. And if we talk about peripherals, let's go with the kingdom of the peripherals. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

47:03Good. With the centralism, this section, for example, is called Cousas de Antía. Cousas de Antía. One thing. In English, Cousas. Cousas de Antía. Feliz año. Feliz año. No, we did not know. We did not see it. The last one. In order for our party. No, no, no, no, no, no. The last time we saw each other, we took the coffee from Cardi Cruda that we were going to drink. That Javi gave you a very good idea. Do you remember? What is Javi? Javi is you. Javier, Javier, Javier. What do you like to call me? Javi. Javier, Javier, Javier. And what is Javier? Javier, Javier, Javier. Don Javier, Inc. Don Javier. Do you remember what I told you? It was very good. It was very good. Yes. I told you that you are the book reconciliation of the king, Mary. With this imitation of how good he is. Oh, well. I think I was doing good. Well, it seems very good. I see. Capituno, one. But not so much. But good, good, good, not so much. But good, good, good, good. I think it's quite different. Very good, auntie. Because you call this person. That's how I do it. I did a lot of the imitation of him. Oh, I read that book. Well, well, I don't know why. Because you have so much trouble with him. I don't know. No. It's very much. Very much. For a imitation of what I was going to do, too,

48:05in a small way, for the first time. I don't know what the matter is. What? How did you talk about something? With the king? No, no, with the king. I told you. I told you not. With the king, I was talking about it. With the king, I was talking about it. Yes. Well, I want my 15. If you are going to take care of it. Take care of it. Wow, I'm going to the beach. You have 30. You have 30. No, because I love to give a small gift with a 25. I love to give a 15. I love to give. Come on, come on. Yes, well, I love to give. Well, I know that you have called me. No, because you don't want me. No. Because I have not been to Spain for... For Broms, right? No. For Poyos. For Poyos. No, for Poyos, always. For Poyos. For Poyos, always. You depend on that. Poyos, we love you. I... Yes, for there I go to the Broms. Of course, of course, of course. Of course, of course. Of course, of course. For Poyos. Of course, of course. That I was going to say that I started a year, great. So? I started. I read it and that. I started the year, the jump will fly. I started the year. Look, look, look, I spent the five of money. I spent a thing. A day before the extraordinary, I was a child. I still have a child. Yes. I spent something extraordinary. A day. I gave you like a very important person in this country.

49:05I saw it, I saw it. Take care. Take care. Take care. Take care. No, no, no. I gave you... I gave you like. What a nervous. I am nervous. Manu. Tenorio. Manu, tenorio. Manu, tenorio. Manu, tenorio. What happened? The handsome guy said he was the best man. I loved Manu Tenorio a lot. Take care. The inventor of the term, Inkyokupa. Inkyokupa. Infective, infective. Tenorio. Bye. I am more than a animal. But, in fact, I gave you, you don't look at the detail. Infective, infective. That's what I said. And don't you think? And don't you think it was a like? Like that, the blue ball. No. No, no, no. There was a buscane. So, I crossed the line, I crossed the line. And if it was an influencer in Maldives, and I found a picture that I... I erected the soul. Ah, of course. Now I can see the picture. I brought it. You brought it to the picture? Yes. I brought it to the picture. Let's see. Let's see. I don't know what the camera is. The camera is more than the picture. Oh. Oh, okay. If I was in the doubles,

50:06if the word communism is painted on my chest, or if the face of Yuzo is in the pieces. That's the description of the picture, okay? Yes. If you want it for the kids, you can tell them that in the YouTube and in the Twitch, the kids and the kids, you know what it looks like. You're going to do it, okay? This anti-empty one, usually, and takes the pieces with the faces of... And you know what it's called, Yuzo. And he had a piece with... He took the pieces with him. Pablo Iglesias and they eliminated him. Oh, no. There's a rice there. There's a rice there. There's someone who's... He's... I think this is good. This is good. I think this is good. We started with a lot of confrontation, a lot of fun. And you got the two spaces. Exactly. There are people who want to put the fascism. We have the fascism's fear. And that my manager called me, I think it's a step for the restoration of the competition. Totally. And I didn't know. I knew that at some point, my desire to save Spain is something that I've always believed. Yes. And... It seems like I'm not talking about the topic. No. From the peripherals that we saw you call for that. But it's not the case of the manager or the periphery of the music. Or it's not the case.

51:06In the periphery. In the periphery of the penance. Come to the story. Well, of course, come to the story. I'm a little girl of the called Provincias. Those places that only acquire the importance of an attraction in the instant. The territory is chosen to be a vacation destination, but not a destination of life. The places that it was supposed to be a simile would be the edges of the pizza. I'm from Provincias. And so many provinces that when I came to live in Madrid in 2007, I was surprised by the size of the big one. And the price of the people. And the fleckles of the embers. I came prepared. Because my father, before changing me, I was happy that he noticed me in Provincia, he forced me to learn the stations in Madrid. I said, aunt, I fell down to a martinian, and I remember the answer. Sometimes I was easy to get to touch the sun, which is direct line, but sometimes I was very angry, and I was going to pee and I was wearing three t-shirts. I was grateful to the training,

52:08until I arrived in Madrid, and I said that everything was indicated, there were maps, even lines, and they were differentiated by colors. But I don't keep it in mind, why? What had I done with that time, that time? To send a video or to ask questions? Well, I've been here for 19 years, half of my life, but all that you want to know who I am, always answer to. I call aunt, and I am the only evidence of the only province that has no Galicia. What do you say? What are you saying? How sweet it was. How sweet it was. I am a child of province, what can I say? What is the name of the comic? Now in this video, it's a very big film, a film of sobremesa on this character. Well, that's me, because I'm the one, I'm not a protagonist. Of course I'm not a film. A film of... This is my father's film. A film of my father's film. That could be sobrence, and Manu Teñoro has a piece, but it's okay. Well, okay, I want to say that I am from the periphery of the periphery,

53:08what I was talking about before, I am from Ourensi. The four things are called, there is an ourensi that is not in Spain, Osanto, Christ, Aponte, Romana, Asburgas, and Antía Lousa. I didn't know I was going to refer to it, but I have put it, because I want a lot of ourensi. I am moving away from Ourensi, and I say, Joepo, Pobrecita, how beautiful it is, and you want to take advantage of it. I think of myself, but I also think of Ourensi. And really, I really want it so much that one day I would like to be or calm. Well, yes, and I do not have it difficult, because what we have now... Let's see, tell us. What we have now, I just can't help but to define what we have now. Well, I know how to regulate this video, but nothing happens. We do not know if you know it, do you know if it has fallen from Ourensi? No, you do not know it, the denomination Trump Ourensano, I do not care, I do not care, and at least it has no disposition, a nuclear engine. A nuclear engine? Why can't I have it? Everything is pulsating every day.

54:09I like to pulsate the nuclear engine. Please, re-volume yourself, around me, because I am going to make you a free tour for the Austrian Alcalde of Ourensi Gonzalo Pérez Jacome. Ah, Jacome, right. Number one, your face, you want to sound me. Year 2024, elections to Galicia's join. While the rest of the candidates gave me their peripherals, Mr. Alcalde and his Democratic Party Ourensana understood that to win votes he did not need a electoral program, but a false set of scandal. To join Ourensi Gonzalo Pérez Jacome To join Ourensi Gonzalo Pérez Jacome Would you like Mr. Alcalde to win votes? Or do you think this panorama is a doubt with which we will have to live? Number two, Gonzalo Zunberg. Mr. Alcalde is not only revolutionary in his electoral campaign ideas, but also in his proposals to fight climate change of the Ourensi or Calurosa.

55:11He will become a hospital and hospital. He should be climate change and he is already being for four months in the year, and we have to take half a year to do that. That's why we would like to do the biggest Hispanic park in Orens. No! Yes, yes, yes, yes, one excellent idea! Mr. Alcalde, I have another idea, we can have the following conditions, open the windows so that you do not get caught in the poles. Definitely. Number three, menu Christ. In 2019, the controversy led Mr. Alcalde to be in the form of Belén, and it is that the fact of Belén set out the professional protests, the people said that those figures were provoking traumas. And that's what it is. If you want to be ugly, right? Alcalde responded to the controversy saying that the Belén has more visits than the immunizations. It gives me the same thing that they come to laugh if they take something. And it happened for one of the mythical pictures of his Alcalde. That he has it here. Mr. Alcalde, oh no! A child Jesus with the arms putted. So, he was going to the table and then he fell. A life that did not have spirit, a little boy, but yes, he put a hammer on it. But this was the thing that happened that the child Jesus kidnapped him.

56:11After that, then they came back to put him and then they sent him a plastic bag in front of him. The glass is plastic. The glass of Orens. That glass of Orens, totally. And the last number 5, the puzzle of all the dishes. And it is that if something was characterized by the political peculiarity of Mr. Alcalde, it is the important thing that has always been for him to highlight. That we are the national admiral, Ojalá. Ojalá, I don't know, Ojalá, we were the national admiral, because you can imagine being in the advertising that you had on your day. Ojalá was the national admiral. Because of the jokes of the episodes they told Orens, man. They say, in what is the difference? A chimpanzee of, well, from Mr. Villarino. A chimpanzee of Orens. Do you know that in the gaze of the chimpanzee? Oh, I'm not full, eh? In a full show of categories. Bravo for Mr. Alcalde. A politician who doesn't define neither left nor right, with what it is. Fascist! A politician who arrived in the cargo to take over the new politician. And if you don't like what he does, well, he has it clear. I am Alcalde. And if you don't like it, what you have to do is fascinate yourself.

57:13And point. And point. And point. I'm very good at talking to Alcalde, at talking to Alcalde. You had a chimpanzee here, if you want to know the role of Alun Carguito. Exactly. Of course. No, and I also had another chimpanzee that I would never think it would be this, but at least I had a political life. Well, no? There is something that... Well, well, we already have a job for you. So? Antialo used Alcaldeza. Alcaldeza, I would love it, really. Please. No, but I want to talk to Alcalde. I mean, let's do it in fact, in 2026 we know what it is, right? It's not the year you're going to spend a lot of important things at the best, but it's going to be the year in which we're going to find a job, as Antialo used. The message is clear. Well, it can't be that a person from Provincia, yes. That has all these talents. But so valuable, as Antialo used, but well... I don't have a job of what... Antialo used Ferra is very, very good. Yes, and if you get it, I'll give you 15. Well, it's called Antialo used. And if not, Alcaldeza, I would love it.

58:43Grandmother and I. anga, they are remodeled from Madrid for楚 4 Todas de Fuera of the capital, they make some faces with that Madrilianism looking towards the Manor at the Ferifieria is Centralismo. About being born in Spain, the Rouii can make nonsense! Rumpiendo España is called deadmazo in which speaking of how Madrid run its way into the city of Madrid centralism wants to be the only province and forget that we are 51 and talking about periphery we are going with an announcement of this peripheral republic of the radio today the king Sofia is training the museo-aural space for the sound experimentation and carnivorous part of the experiment of course that if we train three experimental chapters about his realism anarchism and cubism below the title how the language sounds experimentation and anguario peteria to be a really listen to it because it is a past it is a past it is a

59:44past that is not what we call it but it has not been incredible this program has also been quite good yes thanks to everything that you are not listening to from the periphery salute and republic and that the radio will be with you