Colin Brazier EXPOSES Media Groupthink, Activist Institutions & Britain’s Decline

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1:04Welcome to the Liz Truss Show. Many people in Britain are living in an alternative reality. And you would do if you only got your news from the BBC in Gov.uk or Kierstarma press conferences. Our institutions have been taken over by the activist class, who parrot a series of narratives. Britain is a cohesive multicultural society. Migrants are noble people fleeing persecution. Increased immigration has nothing at all to do with the surge in sex attacks. Britain's energy would be cheaper if we were entirely reliant on windmills and solar panels. The economy is just about to turn the corner. But more and more of us are getting red-pilled. We're seeing what is really going on in our country, and we want to do something about it. Today I talk to Colin Brazier, formerly a broadcaster at the BBC and Sky News. He saw the activist take over at Sky, as the truth was hidden from viewers. We talk about how more people can be convinced of the truth, how we can turn things around,

2:07on which of Britain's institutions need to be put on the scrap heap. Please subscribe to the Liz Truss Show if you aren't already. Please also subscribe on Spotify and Apple Podcast, where as well as this show, we've got the Liz Truss Show on Mondays and Wednesdays. I'm delighted to be joined by Colin Brazier, formerly of Sky News. Colin, welcome to the Liz Truss. Nice to be here. I've said my dual books. I'm Rand. You've got a lot of I'm Rand. I am encouraged. Very good. Well, she was right about a lot of things, wasn't she? I was in the long course as well, but there was a lot that was sensible there. When you see all the entrepreneurs leaving Britain, doesn't it remind you of that Liz Truss? It absolutely does. They read like fables. They read like prophecies. I read the found in him not very long ago. And so much of it felt like a warning of what happens when you let special interest take over.

3:07God knows you have to see that in government trying to pull those levers that keep sticking because people want to make... My thing is worse than that. I don't think the levers are actually there. You get into the room when you think where is the levers lever? Oh, they're missing. They're missing some de-it rhythm. You Colin have had your own experience of realising really what has been going on in Britain. Some might call it being red-pilled. Yeah. How did your red-pilling happen? It wasn't a pill. It was a series of pills. I think that's the first thing to say. There's rarely a dammit scene moment when you get the blinding light. The reveal's truth to you. More likely you just see it over a period of time. It was a long time. I joined Sky News in 1997. It was the upstart kid on the block then. It was populated by robust meritocratic Aussies. It was not the BBC. And that's why I joined it because I've been the BBC. Didn't much like the culture, quasi-civil service. Sky seemed to offer a more conservative common sense alternative. And in those days it was.

4:07And I described 2001 recently to somebody as a high watermark for Sky News. Somebody wrote it and said, 9-11 was no high watermark power. I meant it. Let me express it one more sensibly. There was a time in the early 2000s when Sky News really began to speak to the nation in those roiling events around 9-11. Certainly changed my life. I mean, changed many lives in the most horrific ways. For me, suddenly I'd gone from being a political correspondent. I said to Pakistan for a couple of months. And then over the next two, three years did the war. So I was embedded embedded with the American Army in 2003 for the invasion of Iraq, for instance. And in those days it felt like Sky News was a genuine reflection of a part of the country which had to have been ignored by the BBC. And just to a summary degree by ITV as well. And then slowly, incrementally, almost without noticing frog in the boiling water style. I started to feel a shift in the way Sky News was no longer representing working class people.

5:07You remember that when Sky first started Liz, there was a real stigma attached. You remember that, you know, the... Yeah, I got to get a sky dish. It was on your top. It was a little mark of cane, wasn't it? It was kind of, you know, it was social death. You had a satellite dish on the front of your council house. It brought out real snobbery in people. But that was Sky in the early days. It was always a good sign when you were canvassing, though. It was Sky Day. Yeah. And it spoke to a certain demographic who principally were buying it so they could watch the footy. But Sky Sports actually crossed subsidized Sky News. Sky News never made money. It only lost money. But there was, as I say, there was this sort of high watermark in the 2000s. One of the connections between what Sky were doing as a sort of upstart, not the BBC anti-establishment was really strong. And that was a fun time to be there. It slowly changed and by, by sort of 2015 in particular. I suppose if I'm looking for a red pill moment, that was the first of the pills. And, you know, I remember, God knows, it wasn't just me, but I went along with the team to receive an Emmy in 20,

6:09the year after 2016 for our coverage of the migrant crisis of 2015. And just feeling so consumed with disgusted, really. I think sort of a self-loathing would be too strong because I was perfectly happy to go to the awards ceremony because this isn't it. Why wouldn't you? But it felt wrong. It felt wrong on so many levels. It felt wrong because we so ineptly told that story. And the public knew it. The public sniffed. The fact we weren't quite telling the truth as it ought to have been told. What do I mean by that? You know, I was in countries like Greece and Serbia, Croatia, Hungary. I'm in being on the border. The Hungarian, the Hungarian Serbian border. Now, shall not pass. You're not coming in. Obviously, they wanted to traverse Hungary to get to Germany. Angela Merkel's open arms and all the rest of it. And being on this border, Hungary and my police, hundreds of bandana, almost jihadist style, in quotes, refugees, not from Syria. We were told they're from Syria.

7:09Some were, many were not. Who started hurting bricks at the police lines? And, you know, I was broadcasting in the melee. And that made, for quote, good telly. And hence, you know, share in the Emmy. But actually, on the ground in that moment, working my way away back from the police lines, watching my colleagues from a variety of different broadcast outlets, interviewing, you know, the solitary woman uncovered, choking on the tear gas. And that was the story. These poor victims who just want to have a better life. Hang on. They don't want to let you into their country. That's their decision. That is their sovereign right to say, you're not coming in. And it was just this all round want of skepticism from my colleagues. So, where were they getting? Well, they're kind of in structure. No, there was no direction. There was, there was no guiding mind. There was no guiding mind. That's what people find hard to what they struggle with. Because, you know, that's how group think works. There is no email. There is no fiat. There is no dictat from on high. People just get the vibe.

8:10And the vibe was, be nice to migrants otherwise. You're siding with them to all ban. You're morally, you're not just wrong. You're morally impure. And I thought it was part of a slow disappearance of healthy journalistic skepticism. Be skeptical. Yeah. You don't focus on this woman who's come from Damascus University with her degree in Biomedical Engineering. What about those guys, those shifty guys over there who don't want it? Why didn't they not want to talk to you? What are their motives? Why are they, where are they going and what do they want to do? Basic questions of journalistic integrity. Simply not adhered to. And I think there was a direct cause and link there. I mean, you know, that far better than I do. Between that disaffection with mainstream media from 2015 started around 2015 that led and bled directly into Brexit. I think people by that stage were really suspicious of what mainstream media was telling them about how they passed the world. I think that was true. I think it started a lot for that.

9:11Yeah, go with that. And if you look at all the things that led up to where we are now, you know, you end up back in the 1990s and thinking that was actually the high watermark of Britain. Yeah. And since the end, you had a government who were pursuing, well, you're right, describing it as constitutional vandalism. But things like the human rights act change the judicial system. So you did the constitutional reform act. So you had all of that. You had the sort of the raising up of human rights law. It's something that's good in itself. When I know that people question it now, but human rights law used to be the sort of law that people wanted to go into because it was nice. Nobody at the door looking after people. It was the rise of environmentalism. All of these kind of movements. It seemed to me that they got that wind in the late 90s. And, you know, that generation that entered, you know, journalism politics had

10:12that particular worldview. And to me, I think one of the key moments was the Gillian Duffy moment in the 2010 election when she... That bigoted woman. That bigoted woman, the Gordon Brown thing. When you just saw the gap between what people were actually thinking and what it was acceptable to say. Gordon, you're never alone with a microphone. And the truth is, you know, I think you're right. And I think that if you take something like MacPherson, that first and report into institutional racism, which we've then tilted the whole balance of evidence, the evidential burden. Suddenly it was guilt or culpability or motivation, I should say, was in the eye of the beholder. If my bike's been stolen, and I think that was because I'm gay, I'm not gay, I'm just you. There's an example. And then that's the police have to take that charge seriously. It becomes recorded as a hate crime. And that from the 1990s, nobody wanted to say MacPherson was wrong. They were sympathetic towards Mrs. Lawrence, you know, perfectly reasonable human reaction. But you end up if you follow the dots with the 2010 Equality Act

11:14and a bunch of protected characteristics, which no longer esteem the contents of your character more than you're ascribed characteristics. So you're right, it did sort of start in the 90s. And I think I was saying something the day. The Tony Blair has got away with so many things. He's a world-class politician by so many measures. He should be apologizing for Mendelsohn, or the key architects of the new Labour project. Tony, tell us, say something about it, if you wouldn't mind. But also while you're at it, could you tell us about your plans to increase university participation to 50% of all 18-year-olds, forcing them through this group-think factory, owned by the way they're so then indebted with debt they can't afford the usual milestones of adulthood, getting a home, starting a family. You mentioned evolution. I think you genuinely thought devolution was going to be a break on the succession. It turned out to be an accelerator. What, Tom Foulery? Immigration, most obviously. You know, the accession comes in 2004. I was in Brussels at the time looking up at the belly of the beast and just thinking this is not going to end well.

12:14It started with Blair and he's not copped for it. Oh yeah, not to mention the independence of the Bank of England or I call it lack of accountability and the fact they have printed money. You know why we ended up with these inflation crises? Why do we have this asset price surge, say, young people gone by houses? I mean, most of the problems can be traced back to that era. But why did the corporate world go along with it? I mean, Rupert Murdoch owned Sky at the time. I believe in 2015. No. The client asked was... But certainly, you know, newspapers like The Sun and The Times, you know, it went to the woke group thing. I mean, if you remember The Sun picture of the woman in the burqa, don't look back in anger after the Manchester bombings, you know? I was on the police tape. Who are those bombings?

13:14How did organizations like that, you know, that previously had done things like broken strikes in whopping through the challenge of print unions? How did they go in that direction? It's a really, really good question. I think you've got to go into it, institution by institution. The Guardian, the Mirror, the BBC, ITV. They all just carried on doing what they were doing. But you're right. There's a bigger question as to why there was no GB news quite then coming along. I think there were regulatory problems there. And boy, that was difficult to do. But why? I mean, the mail always... The mail always flew the flag for a certain world view. Easy to hate the mail, but actually let's remember what they've done. But Murdoch's a bit more of an enigma. I mean, the Sun changed its spots to a very great degree. What was happening at News Corp at the time? I mean, just from my narrow sliver, my narrow vintage point, I would say this, it felt to me perhaps because of that stigma attached to Murdoch.

14:14There was an attempt at Sky News to wash Murdoch right out of their hair. Hence a lot of the green, green washing. Sky is no longer about being slightly adjacent to this toxic right-wing figure. We're a channel that brings you the half-hour climate change show. We're a channel that... Is that a popular show? But then you're like... It's heard. I mean, you know, it's not. I mean, it was never, never popular. I mean, the thing about Sky was it never had any viewing figures. And they dipped even lower when the climate change show was on for half an hour. It was pure agit prop. It was purely about window dressing. But what it spoke to was we are ditching journalism. There's no journalistic justification for that show. It was about activism. Activism replacing journalism. And it was about signaling. We are morally pure. We care about the environment and become 2020 and BLM. I mean, Sky, corporately embrace the hysteria of BLM

15:16to the most astonishing degree. I was invited, in the dreadful language of these things, I was invited, an invitation suggests you can decline it, to go on an unconscious bias course, to consider my whiteness. At the time I was recently with Oda had six young children, I didn't think I could say what I wanted to say to the people who invited me onto this unconscious bias course. And millions lightly submitted to that bullshit. And by that time, Sky were fixed. They were fixed on a progressive worldview. They'd ousted some people who I think had a much closer relationship with the type of traditional loyal Sky News viewers. The new management at Sky News and something like Sky More Corporate were not interested in those views. They were interested in the cued offs that comes with running a news channel which says the right things. And by the way, there's something else in that, when viewers stop maturing and very few people never, you know, very few people ever watch Sky, people watched it in government offices at number 10,

16:16cabinet office, department department of state, other newsrooms, very few people, ordinary people did. And as even that small number drew in smaller, the metric that began to matter was industry awards. And if you've been watching this industry as I have, they mattered more and more and more. And as the number of viewers went down and down and down, the importance of awards grew greater and greater and greater because it was a way of justifying your existence. And of course, the awards weren't given by customers, viewers and listeners. They were given by fellow industry insiders. It's cozy, special interest nonsense. You've stayed at Sky until when? When, when did you? 2021. When did you have enough at all? Yeah, 2021. And got wind of a thing which I'd long hoped for, which was a sort of Fox News UK. Because it felt to me insane that you could have, you know, in newspapers, as with the courts, as with Parliament,

17:17you know, offered rival world views, you know, defense and the prosecution, government opposition, newspapers, you can be the guardian or the telegraph. There's somewhere between the two lies, something approximating to the truth. In Telly, the output of the BBC Channel 4 ITV in Sky is broadly indistinguishable as you must have, you must have wondered, you know, in politics. There's a whole number of things that have happened today. And yet it's a same lead story on all the main broadcast news outlets at six o'clock. Why is that? Because there's an incredible herd mentality. The people who run the newsrooms were all cut from the same cognitive cloth. They all think the same. And, you know, it's worse than that. Because I was listening to an interview on this a day program recently. And it was somebody, you know, Israeli, foreign affairs spokesman. And it's so performative. It's so ritualistic. I have to be seen to be beating a living daylight of this, out of this Israeli spokesman. Not because that's what the listeners want, but that's because what the newsroom expects me to do.

18:17And if I don't do it, I'll be failing. It's not about the customer. So now we've just been on GB News, where the presenters got an earpiece. And they're worried about off-com. Did they're getting a message from the producers? You've got to be tougher on this. You've got to ask. Or do you want your off-com license or not? If you want your off-com license, you don't have to play within the rules. I don't like the rules, but they're there. And that's the arrangement. You work within the law. So I get that. I don't like it. I get it. Yeah, but off-com is biased, isn't it? I think it is. I think it is. You've got nothing to worry about. They don't monitor what you do. And I like... I hate they do. I hate them watching. Well, isn't it great that, you know, we're moving into this phase when the mainstream media outlets have lost their monopoly on information. Because that's what they had. They're the monopoly on information. And now we can... I still don't feel like they have lost it enough. I think you've got a... You've got a burgeoning podcast scene. You've got new shows like Dan Witton and Mike Graham, all these shows. But really, the dominance of the BBC is still massive.

19:18Yep. And it's there on their online content is... A lot of people don't sit down and watch the news. They just see occasional headlines flash up. And you know what? It's getting worse this week. The government announced an extra 12 million pounds for local news. So, I've started in local newspapers. I want towns to have their weekly title. But I want them to... In cities like Bradford or I was born and grew up. I want the local paper to get to the bottom of grooming. I think they'd really like to be investigating things like... Pakistan heritage grooming gangs. If the government's writing them checks to keep afloat. I don't think so. No is the answer. No is the answer. And then I think that the government funding makes the situation in Britain worse. But I think it would already be bad. Because if you look at the corporate media like the Times, like Sky, it's got a lot of the same group think problems that the BBC has. I mean, the BBC is at least, honestly, a kind of state prefter,

20:19whereas some of the others are masquerading as independent. But they still do not serve the interests of the listening and viewing public. And people need to wise up about this. People think that there is diversity out there. Where there is none. I mean... So, what is wrong with our fellow citizens? Why are they not? Because to me, if you look at what's going on in Britain and you've said you're from Bradford, and you can walk around the streets from Bradford and see what's going on. Likewise, the streets of London. Do people not want to believe what's going on? Do they like clinging on to the safety of this narrative? Most people, most people in this country don't spend a lot of time in Bradford, Birmingham, Luton, parts of London. And it's the media's job, the news is job, journalist's job, to chronicle, chart and record and even comment on, analyze the bits of life

21:19that you can't see as a member of the public. That's what journalism should be all about. Shining a light into dark corners where physically you may never go, because it does matter. And because otherwise, the only time you hear that maybe there's a problem with integration in Bradford is when the riots kick off as they did in 2001. The only time you may hear there's a problem in Manchester. It's when a bomb goes off at Ariana Grande. Journalists have failed to show the general public what's happening in parts of Britain that aren't like the parts of Britain where they live. And these areas are expanding and growing and mutating, but only a minority of the British public have to live with the day-to-day consequences and they're really pissed off, because they're living it. And they get frustrated and are justifiably frustrated that what they see happening all around them isn't the source of widespread universal revulsion as it ought to be. But the truth is, it's changing because of what's happening online and people go on Twitter and they think,

22:20oh my, that's, did that happen? Yes, it did. I mean, there's another question that about what happens when our AI kicks in and it didn't happen, but this may look like it happened. I don't know how we cross that bridge. But right now, I think there's a new era of what Andrew Griffiths, I think, who used to, you probably, you might have had him in one of your cabinets, business secretary, an exec at Skye, who was Chief Financial Officer, said, 18 months ago when he described Elon Musk's purchase of X as perhaps having, quote, saved humanity. Some people get it, even in mainstream politics. I think it's definitely woken people up to some extent, whether we're in the position of being saved yet, I do not know. I think that's a long battle and a tough battle. A quick note from our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Native Path, and I'll say this upfront, I'm deeply skeptical of most health products, especially collagen. The market is crowded.

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24:21at a fraction of the retail price backed by a risk-free 365-day guarantee. Visit getnatedpath.com Stroke Trusts. In your time in journalism, what was your observation and what was going on in the actual government itself and in politics? Because all of the same things you're talking about, the growth of activism, the ideological groupthink, I saw the same thing happen in the civil service, but what I also saw is those people are massing more power. Is that something that you observed in your time in journalism and politics? The problem is, as you get older, and some of the aren't all the police officers looking younger, I was naturally suspicious. Sure, you're going to say, aren't all the police officers being appointed by the chief executive of the local mosque, is the question we're asking now? That's another question. But you suspect your own motives.

25:22Am I thinking that all MPs that I see are increasingly of a lower caliber than they used to be? I mean, some of it is observable empirically. So I observe that when MPs stand up now in the house, they read from notes, all of them, all of the time. And even 20 years ago, that was infinitely less common. So what's happening there? Is it just a new social parliamentary convention or are we losing something in the spirit of oratory? I mean, something's something's happening. When it comes to public servants, more generally, but I was really struck a couple of weeks ago. Lindsay Hoyle had MPs at Port Colis House, the overflow building from the Palace of Westminster. 40 MPs were dancing to quote, raise awareness about obesity and healthy living. And I just remember just something that aligned from Roger Struton about how Eastern Europeans never lost the tragic sense of life. And watching these frivolous pigmies are tripped from the cockpit of the nation.

26:25From Parliament itself, behaving in the way they were, whilst the Middle East was on fire. And you are slightly left thinking, wow, the calibers dropped. I can't speak to civil servants. I never really had any dealings with them in obviously in the way they do a politician you would. But the calibre of MPs, decade by decade, has freely been declining. But I would say that's directly related to the fact they've got less and less power. And that these civil servants have got more and more power. So if you actually want to get something done, you're an activist, you join a government department, you make your way to the top of that government department. And the way you get promoted is you support the ethnic minority network, or you're part of the LGBTQIA plus, you know, work in group,

27:26bloody blood. I'm in a believe in it. So you think of it. But I didn't quite love them, don't actually. But that is what has become to our government. And I mean, it's interesting you saying as a journalist, you did not have much contact with it, which it's completely unaccountable. And you've got these, you've got these kind of show, pantomime going on, of MPs and their behaving more and more like clowns and characters in a pantomime, because they don't really have any say. I mean, I think it's questionable whether Britain itself has any say in the around more, but certainly they don't have say in a lot of major decisions because they've been outsourced. It's been outsourced to the climate change committee or human rights judges or whoever else. So they're left dancing in Parliament. It's a kind of symbol of their powerlessness, apart from anything else. I agree with all of that. And I think that there's a lack of understanding, a friend of mine raises money for charities increasingly, when she puts the applications into the big,

28:28the big trusts, I mean, recently she put in one to the former shoemaker, a household name recently closed all its outlets. And it's got lots of money to disperse, to charities, but increasingly you have to demonstrate that the charity doesn't just that you're working for, it doesn't just do, you know, soup kitchens. It's got to do advocacy. So you've got to lobby on behalf of people who need soup kitchens. So certainly we're into world of demy politics, of equity and poverty and low pay. And you just see how it slowly drifts interactivism. Look at the democratic deficit there. You've got millions of pounds been dispersed. You've got an NGO or a charity been told to become more political, who's voting for it? Who's making those decisions? Where is the democratic say so? There is none. When you see what's happening in our country, what do you see as being the solution to this?

29:28Because it's clearly moving in the wrong direction and we've now got an activist bureaucracy. We have a activist media. None of these activists, by the way, are right-wing activists. They're all left-wing activists promoting Islamism, transgender ideology, environmental not robbery, whatever. They're promoting all that stuff. What do you see as the way forward? I'd like to do a slow way forward. I'd like to see Gramsky's slow march through the institutions reversed. I'm not sure there is the patience to march through those institutions on our side of the aisle. I think there is so much justifiable anger with some of these unelected institutions that we're talking about, whether it's... People think the molecules to work, the churches to work, the armies to work, the police to work, everything's to work. Well, I get that. I'm as angry about that as anybody, but we have to recapture those institutions, which have been ideological captured, we need to recapture.

30:28And that's the work of decades. It's not a strategy to blow them all up and replace them with something from scratch because I'm a Berkian conservative. I believe in institutions, but we... Good ones take decade centuries to build. What about the recent ones? So the Office of Budget Responsibility of the Climate Change Committee or the... Good night. Yeah, so you are... You are a favour of abolishing quite a few of... The lake windows. They're confections. They're artificial. And as you say there... I'm not sure if always the design... These things were invented at one point. Even the police were invented, aren't they? They were. And you could have a private police force. But if you think... If you take the church... Yes, the church was invented. It was invented over... Through the... The meandering and the wisdom of crowds over centuries. So what you're saying is the longer an institution has been around. The more producing... Yeah, it is. So... So which... Which year would you kind of push the clock back to? And it's like... Or...

31:28I'd say anything created by Tony Blair, Automatic Adolition. Yeah. And my mum worked as a nurse. She saw profound waste. I... Look on... Look on... In astonishment. Her people's unwillingness to countenance any private sector. Meaningful private sector involvement in the NHS. Ditto... Education. Actually as well. Why can't we... Why can't we just take schools out of the hands of local education authorities and encourage people to actually get tax breaks to... Assend their kids to school that's not provided by the state. There's... She lost the argument big time. And... So when do you go back to... Yeah. 45? We... We... We just fought two horrific wars. We felt that we should be kind to ourselves. Let's have some national parks. Let's have a national health service. Let's have a welfare state. I get it. We were naked. We were exhausted. We were broken. But the... The comforts we settled ourselves with in 1945

32:28have proved to be impossible to sustain. And... The reforms in the 80s basically gave us stain of execution. Because it was right. So... Blair was then able to squander all the cash as well as creating all these new terrible institutions that have emerged. So if this happens... So let's say... We can look in a crystal ball and... These institutions start getting captured back in 29. They start getting abolished, you know. All of this new generation of Gen Z, I mean... Being active in the right way. And... That gets fixed with time. It's not impossible. Does that mean a city like Bradford can ever be restored to what it was? Ever's a long time. And what it was has changed so profoundly decade by decade century by century. You know, in the 1820s, the sort of the 18th century. Its population was in the low thousands.

33:28And, you know, 50 years later, it was a couple hundred thousand, drawn there by... I mean, it was never as good as Leeds. Let's be honest. Let's be honest. I'll give you the football. But... Could it be... It's going to be different. It's going to be different. But we've missed so many opportunities along the way. I mean, Bradford is special. I would argue for a number of reasons. One of those reasons is the place it occupies in the origin story of British political Islam, by which I mean, burning of someone else's satanic verses, outside Bradford City Hall in the 1980s, was a moment, an opportunity, for the state to make emphatically clear, we're not going to put up with this shit. You can't go... What did the state do there? They did nothing. It's... This is not for the satra government. Right. That is true. Am I good in the satris? Why... Why didn't... Well, I think it was a policing decision. It's going against the behind it. And then that... It hasn't been created. For people who don't realise what happened,

34:28someone rushedly had been handed down a fatwa for writing the book the satanic verses. Do you think that is the moment when the Islamism problem in Britain became clear? I think it became clear. It became... It was the first time in Britain people thought that Islam, rather than being sort of Arabian nights and, you know, T. Lawrence and slightly exotic and mystical and, you know, it was something else. It was... It wasn't just a... a Kerry night and... and Saris. Oh, hang on. What's the... Why are these people really angry? Why are they burning a book? And I think that was a real idea, but, as I say, it was also a... a missed opportunity for some exemplary sentencing. You start calling for somebody to be killed for writing a book, and we are going to send you to prison. See, the police... Was it the local West Yorkshire police, then? I don't know. I don't know. Could the whole secretary have called it in? I don't know. I mean... What? Or is she struggles? I've never been in charge of the home office, but I've had my struggles

35:28with police operational independence, which essentially means it's very, very hard for politicians to intervene, and it's made the police completely unaccountable. Well, the problem with the police in West Yorkshire is they have chosen time and time again the line of police resistance. The only time I would say that wasn't true was in 2001 after the riots. And, by the way, for people who don't remember the riots and they were raised rights and religious rights of 2001 in Bradford, they were horrific. 400 arrests were made, and there were exemplary sentences, then. I can't remember who was home secretary. But it was... It's a miracle that we died. The Labour Club in Manningham, which used to be, you know, 150 years ago, there was a Mayfair of the North. It's true. The Labour Club was torched. It was set on fire. Broom handles put through the door, so they couldn't be open from the inside. And when the fire brigade arrived, they were bricked. Miracle nobody died. I don't know who was in charge of West York police then, or in terms of prosecutions. But there were exemplary and lengthy sentences handed down to the rioters.

36:28And that was the sort of messaging that we should have had 20 years earlier. But you are hopeful. No. No. I mean, I'm a Christian. And that gives me hope. I believe all men and my brothers, I really do. And that means I look at the Muslims of Bradford and elsewhere. I see a lot that's good. I think it's important for Christians to be unapologetic about their faith. And that includes saying to Muslims who want to consider becoming Christians that that's okay. And you won't be killed for doing so. You know, and I've met a few times you may admit him. Michael Nazir Ali, who at one time, here's another Blair legacy. He was probably, according to what I've read and heard, was likely to get in the next archbishop, of Canterbury in the early 2000s. He was a bishop of Rochester. As far as there was a Pakistani Shia who converted to Christianity. And Michael didn't become archbishop of Canterbury, but he spent a lot of time and effort protecting Muslims who converted,

37:28who renounced Islam became apostates, which, according to some interpretations, is a very serious crime, maybe even punishable by death. You know, that I hope that Christian message gets through it fills me with hope if it doesn't, then there's a problem. In terms of this world, this secular world, this temporal world, in which we live, a lot of the lights to the desk are flashing red at the moment. The demographic lights, the ones that bother me the most. There's never been a time in human history. It seems to me where whole groups of people just stopped having kids whilst, although groups of people aided and the betted by the lights of science, had lots. And that, it was like an unsustainable imbalance to me. But to me, that is a fixable issue. If you have the right policies pursued, and they were pursuing policies that make it very hard for people to have children. You know, whether it's asset price inflation, whether it is the sheer expense

38:30of the way the British tax system operates. You know, all of these things, for people who want to have a family, and lots of young people do want to have a family. It's so hard to move out of home. It's so hard to afford to do it. In a way, it just wasn't in the 60s or 70s in Britain. And I think if you look at Hungary, for example, they have made some steps, and it has had some effect. Now, I think the policy needs to be much bigger, or I think it's possible. I think it's possible. I think that economics will only take you so far. I think inducements will only take you so far. I think that ultimately it is about culture more than economics. I think you have to fill people. But economics drives culture. If you live in a town, which has got a fantastic growing industry, where there's a sense of purpose, where you know your kids are going to get a good job. You know that the future is positive. You know that the holiday next year is going to be better than the holiday last year.

39:31They're going to be able to buy a new car. If you're in a country that's been stagnating for 25 years, and your kids have less opportunity than you have, of course it's not going to be a conducive environment to think let's have a family. So to me, the whole stagnation of our country is intimately connected with the cultural decay. You know, they are part and parcel of the same thing. The most stagnant, economically most stagnant parts of the UK are cities like Bradford, Birmingham, Manchester, Luton. Where the birth rates are also paradoxically very high. But a lot of these people are living off the state. And now thanks to Labour, the two child benefits that has been lifted. They are. They are. But there are also people who are competent. These are communities which are confident about the future. And they're also often pretty misanthropic and misogynistic. These are often families that are the products of things

40:31like first cousin marriage, sometimes arranged marriages, and where women are not encouraged to get a good education, and then go through those demographic transitions which in many Western countries traditionally was what happened. You get educated, you put off having children. That's not happening in large parts of the UK. My point is it's not just about the economics there. They are defying the demographic curves in spite of the economic headwinds. And they do that because they have profound religious and cultural beliefs. We're not like them, but it's a fact. And they're also living off the welfare state. That is, I mean, I would agree with that. I mean, I forget the thing, but I think it's over half of Bangladesh's or on some kind of state welfare. It's like, there are big drivers. And we've made it very expensive to have children if you are middle well off. And you will not be interested. We're able to have big families tend to be really ill. Exactly. I agree big, confident about cultures in Britain.

41:33But if you've got no economy to speak off in the countries on the verge of bankruptcy, that's very difficult. There are people who are coming from middle class families. The Bank of Mum and Dad will take care of the first deposit. They've had nice holidays growing up. They've got, Mum bought them the first car. Always sort of stuff. And yet, they don't want kids. Why? Because they've sucked in the catastrophizing about the economy, about the future. They're in the grip of this hideous sort of nihilism about the state of the world. They lack confidence that they could ever be the type of grown-up who could ever be trusted to have a child. And there's almost something as cartogeical about it, by which it means sort of end of times. People were having kids in the depths of the plague. People were having kids in this city when bombs were raining down at the height of the blitz. And we've never lived through better times

42:33in terms of child mortality. And you know, you know, hideous disease is all the rest of it. It's never been a better time to bring a child into the world. And yet, a substantial number of our people have decided it's so bad I can't consider doing what generations and generations of their ancestors took for granted. We'll call it at least you've set a good example. So you're watching this show. We haven't there my kiss list. Thank you very much. We're coming on the note. Great to have you on. Thank you. It was great to compare notes with Colin about Yorkshire's best city. It's obviously leads. But it is sad what happened to Bradford and much of our country and it's getting worse. We will always tell the truth on this show about what is happening. The truth that isn't in the mainstream media or what the bureaucrats think about. Please get the message out to your friends and family. Encourage them to get on the X to watch independent media and of course to tune in to the Liz Trosh Show.

43:33To hear more about how we can change Britain, you can listen to my audio book ten years to save the West wherever you get your audio books. Please subscribe to the Liz Trosh Show on YouTube, Spotify and Apple Podcast. Thank you for tuning in. Staying connected to my sports. I could follow the teams I care about, get real-time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.