CHGO Cubs Related: Which Remaining MLB Free Agents Make Sense for the Chicago Cubs?

0:00This is the CHGO Cubs related podcast driven by Toyota. Let's go places. Hello, everyone. My name is Corey. I am joined as always by Brendan. We are coming to you on January 29th. Spring training right around the corner. I see our guy Corey saw him in the discord earlier says just stop it in before catching some traders love that show. I want to do a separate thing on that. I am actively thinking of watching that show as we're recording this, but it's not Cubs related. So I will I will lock in Brendan. So it's two weeks until pictures and catchers. What are we doing over here? You know, come on, lock it in Corey. I expect more from you as the lead host of the Cubs related podcast. What are we doing? Let's go. Come on. You haven't, you know, you're probably off on your Alan coming game, but that's fine. So on tonight's episode, just kind of taking a look at some more of the rumors. I think the Zach gallon topic continues to be one that we hear some smoke on.

1:13But that that one may depend on the market and you know what kind of contract offers. He has what the Cubs might be comfortable with. And I think Brendan just continuing to look at we heard it in the winter meetings discussions. I think from Jed from Carter definitely from Craig council, who sort of explicitly says he didn't think the roster was done and wasn't there. Right. And then even hearing Jed the other day on the recap podcast talking about, you know, are they done? Are they still looking at stuff and kind of what do they mean by that? We've seen some minor league moves, Brendan guys like Dylan Carlson, Chaz McCormick, you know, they had brought in Justin Dean Tyler Austin is not, you know, is is I believe a major league deal. But some of these more minor moves. I mean, so do they mean kind of filling out the roster in that way. Are they still looking at some of the bigger names that are still out there gallon being one of them.

2:15I don't expect them to be in it, Brendan. But you know, a guy we talked about at the beginning of the offseason, Framber Valdez is still sitting there seemingly waiting for a team to get over his catcher crossup stuff like that. We're just taking a look at if they're not done, what might that mean for this 2026 roster? My thoughts go to the cushion. We know about the Cubs wanting to improve positional flexibility and depth. We see Chaz McCormick being signed Dylan Carlson being signed and minor league deals Justin Dean, who you just mentioned. They appear to be filling out the positional side with depth in those minor league outfielders, but there's not a robust market for positional free agents where you would want to go out and spend, you know, five plus million dollars on the pitching side. The market is still not fully done. Zach Galen, Framber Valdez, you mentioned it. And for someone like Zach Galen, we'll talk about his stuff and his options and in greater detail as a show goes on, but just as a starting point, I know you're maybe not instinctually liking the idea or trying to piece together all the parts.

3:34I can see it making a lot of sense, not just for 26, but 27 and beyond. And really the motivation for me liking that idea is driven by 2027 and beyond. Yeah, I wouldn't say I don't like it. It's more just as the conversations have evolved trying to piece together how does it work? Yeah, how does it work? But, you know, that is one of those things where ultimately my position would be, that's not my job to solve. And if they're spending money and bringing in talented players and, you know, Galen would be one that you're looking to kind of fix a little bit from what went wrong with him last year. But I'm never going to think that's I think that's overblown, but we'll talk about it. Well, just in terms of getting better results. Of course, but I think I think the whole and I'm not putting words wrong word. Well, you hear it all around from social. I don't believe fix is an accurate description of his overall profile. I want to push back on back to glory. Fine. I mean, whatever, but there's still what we'll talk about.

4:43I mean, I, I do think though ultimately like I, I, I feel like I'm thinking like, okay, how they going to make this work? But at the same time, like, they have the staff to figure that out. And as I've said many times, Tommy, how to be in Craig Councillor or excellent people to figure that out. And if the front office keeps bringing these guys in, it's for a reason. They're not naive to the potential situation you would end up in where you're saying, hey, you know, we feel like we have six or seven capable starters. How are they all pitching? How are we all keeping them on their routine? You know, some of them we can't send to the miners. Do we move them to the bullpen? Do we do a six man? Do we do piggybacks? All these different things. And we can talk about those hypotheticals. But I'm not against that. I'm just sort of wondering aloud how they would do it. But I'm all in favor of them. And, and one of the points I want to bring up that Jed did, I think, hit specifically on the recap podcast the other day that like our long interview that he did.

5:45And then even just thinking back to everybody's comments over this offseason at the winter meetings at CubsCon, all this stuff. One of the things that seems to be coming up a lot, Brendan, is planning, planning for the worst and being prepared. That's something I feel like I keep hearing Jed mentioned or at least you two. And that's where kind of my questions about, well, how do you make it work, whatever. I'm hearing them saying like we're going to figure out how it's going to work if they end up making more moves like this and adding to this depth. And that would deal with that. And that would be a lovely situation for us to be in. But the one situation that this front office seems intent on avoiding is kind of what happened last year in the playoffs where you're asking yourselves like shoot. Like some of our guys, how are we going to get the Indians filth? Yeah. What do we do? Who are we confident in? They seem intent on giving themselves. I wouldn't necessarily call it a problem.

6:51And saying like if we end up in a spot where we feel like we have too many guys, we want to give the ball to every 5th day, great. But we will not find ourselves with our pants down again, kind of searching for answers. You look at what the projected innings are for the current staff. Here's the top five pitchers with their innings. Matthew Boyd at 167 James and Tyona 153, Shota 147, Cabrera 137, Horton 127 finishing out that top 10, you have steel, Ray, Wix, Assad, Brown in some fashion splitting 161. So that's the 10 pitchers right now that are going to fill every single projected starting in in. How does Zach Galen fit into that mold? You talked about six man rotation. Okay, let's, let's model a six man rotation. Each one of those pitchers I just talked about, they lose four to five starts. Matthew Boyd goes from 167, he goes down to 143.

7:56Tyona goes from 153, he goes down to maybe 125 in that territory. Then Zach Galen would get 25 or so starts with around 125 to 130 innings. That's what a six man rotation looks like if every single pitcher is healthy. So that is the situation where it's perfect. If you have perfect health, and if that's the case, you can make those innings work. The second option is the piggyback option. So you want to maintain a five man rotation schedule, the conventionality of a five man schedule for bullpen's in between starts. Then the piggyback option is every fifth day, a starter that should be starting instead comes out of the bullpen for three, four or five innings. And in doing so, because you're pitching in those fifth innings, those sixth innings, those innings are normally given to your number seven or eight bullpen option.

9:02I would rather take James and Ty own than the guy riding the triple A bus back and forth. That seems like a better idea to give those innings to while keeping your entire staff on a five day schedule. That could be challenging the maneuver. You have different off days, you have different routines, but that's for career councils hired to deal. Yeah. And then the very last scenario in 15 seconds is the most likely one. There will be injuries. Matthew Boyd is old. He's entering his late 30s, mid 30s. He's got my age coming straight from. I can see that because he's my age now, right? And then you have Ty own a show to come off injuries. Ty has an elbow sprain. The likely scenario is that those guys will be injured and he's naturally worked its way out. Yeah, and we'll get into some of the specifics on gallon, just because that's the name that keeps coming up. I think it's potentially the most likely. I think the one thing to watch for there is the offers that he has. I've seen this discussion, you know, on social media. And it makes sense. Like if he is looking for one year and an opt out because he's not getting the offers that he wants.

10:07I don't really think that's going to make a lot of sense for the Cubs. And you already alluded to it. One, they're trying to build some stability for their rotation going forward with some of the guys that they're losing the contracts that are expiring. But also they'd have to give up the draft for the qualifying offer to get him, which for a year and then having, you know, no assurance, you know, that he's going to be in your rotation beyond that. Strike me as something that the Cubs would be. That doesn't feel like the deal coming to them, right, which they they may be looking for here. But I think the only. Like thought I would have is again, I agree with you like guys are going to be hurt, even if it's and that's not saying like guys are, you know, their arms are going to fall off like little injuries blisters. Need a little bit of rest. These things happen like where you where you end up skipping a start or a few starts. And how many times have we seen it, right, where like the guys not on the I L, but he misses one start, then it's two starts.

11:08And why didn't you put them on the I L in the first place. We go through this every year with this. I think the one the one thing that would just give me pause when I'm thinking through this is, you know, a lot of these guys very routine oriented. So not that I don't think they can pull it off and I'll throw it to you here quickly. But I do a niche in my head push back a little. I think doing a six man or having some of these guys come out of the bullpen as kind of piggyback guys. It's, it's doable. And like that you have the staff to do it. And ultimately, hey, look like the players do what you tell them to do. If you tell them they're not starting, there's nothing they can do about it. But a lot of these guys very routine oriented. And so it's, it's at least a little bit of like easier said than done when putting it into practice. Again, only in the scenario that everybody's healthy, everybody's humming and deserving and needing of getting that ball every fifth day. Yeah, that's, that's the pushback. How do you change routines up? So the piggyback option maintains a five day routine. But to your point, you have one guy coming out of the coming out of the bullpen.

12:17Who would that be? Kate Horan? Would it be Cabrera? Would it be those guys? Ultimately the Cabrera and Horton Types. So you want you mold into 150 plus inning guy at their peak Cabrera health injuries. I get it. But the, the additional con against this argument is the inability. If everyone is healthy to give. And so that would, that would be the pushback that I accept. I'm willing to risk that though, because if you can, to your point, if you can get Zach Allen for 27 beyond, then I think you do have to at least play that risk. If you're a real risk, if it's a one year 20 million dollar guarantee you with an opt out, I'm not interested. I rather take the risk and what they currently have and to reevaluate at the trade that mine.

13:23For me, it requires a multi year commitment of no more than 22 million somewhere in that ballpark for for me to get on board with this. Before we hit our first ad break here too, like, especially as it comes to could they do a six man, you know, are they putting guys in the bullpen, are they doing this. If they're making this move, they're well aware of that possibility, and they plan for it, or it would signal they are really not confident. And that being an issue and everybody being available every fifth day for the entire year, or they have longer, as you again alluded to, like developmental plans for some of these guys that have had history of injury, or they're trying to take to the next level that would involve not overworking them and, you know, running them into the ground. Like if they're going to bring in Zach Allen, it's not something that in mid April, they're sitting in the dugout going, shoot, we have seven starters, you know, we don't know who to give the ball to.

14:26Now they know. Yeah, don't know, and I'll do the ad break here by do want to finish up on one alternative, the fourth option, if you will, that we didn't go over. But I do think there's some ways to work out, you know, the multiple 10 plus innings or 10 plus pitchers that gives everyone the best innings. And so we'll talk about that after the first ad break. Let's take a break here for sponsors. Bet 365, whatever the moment is never ordinary at bet 365 right now, new customers get $200 and bonus bets when you bet just $5. Win or lose, that's right. But $5, no matter what happens, you're walking away with $200 in bonus bets. And if you're into football, this is where it gets fun. With the bet 365 early payout offer, you're a winner for team goes up by 17 points, instant payout on straight bets and parlay selections. Even if the game is not over yet, plus bet 365 is a 100% parlay boost letting you double your potential winnings on parlays. Super Bowl is coming up now is the time sign up, use code CHG 0365 deposit $10, place $5 bet you'll get $200 in bonus bets when or lose bonus bets on spreads, totals, player props, futures, and more whatever the moment is never ordinary at bet 365 must be 21 or older.

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16:42Go visit them at four seasons heating cooling dot com for all the special offers and money saving coupons as four seasons heating cooling dot com. All right, and before we jump back in to Cubs rotation talk, Zach Allen do want to mention something we announced yesterday. CHGO road trip heading to Arizona for spring training. Fifth through eighth Cubs spring training bowls for sons. There's going to be happy hours golf. Multiple CHGO crews going to be there. And yeah, head to all CHGO dot com slash events to get tickets and look in for more information, but that'll be fun spring training right around the corner and CHGO will be there. I will say you've never been the Arizona for spring training. It is by far my favorite thing to do the entire year. I go out every single year. I may even go out for that weekend, but every year I make an effort to go to Sloan Park. I like even going to the other ball parks. The weather is perfect 75 85 restaurants are great. I lived there for several years with the college there.

17:46You guys need to get out there. My favorite thing practice fields 10 a.m. practice fields on washing grounders for an hour the best thing of the entire year. Well, and you know, you might have Alex Breggman out there at four in the morning. That's right. Yeah, I'll go out for Alex Breggman. If he needs a double play partner, I got my eight 2000 right in the car. Yeah, please stay away from him. Um, we'll make sure it's part of the road trip. I tend to worry that you're not allowed near the players. I don't think you can talk to Tommy hot of you. That's it. I used to take around balls with Cubs players. I swear to God back then. I'm not going to name who, but I sure did. I was basically on the team. People thought I was. They asked who I play. You're the infield depth. You're the Chaz McCormick of the infield. Um, getting back into the rotation depth. And I want to talk about gallon specifically, because it feels like if they, if they are going to do that, that would be. The direction. Maybe there's other names or trades and, you know, look, I still hear a lot of chatter with Boston and Matt Shaw and that might involve some younger pitching prospects.

18:52Maybe the name is being tossed around. But Zach Allen seems to be where the smoke is. And if the Cubs are going to continue adding in that area, that would be my guess, just because they've been connected to him, basically, since the start of this off season. But, you know, reading some of the stuff from our friends at Bleach or Nation. And also congrats on Michael ceramic. By the way, he's releasing a children's book. Check that out. Legionation.com friend of the show. But they mentioned in one of their articles, you know, the Cubs got at least four starts from nine different guys last year. Now one of those was Drew Pomeran's. So he was just opening. And I don't know if you want to count that, but. I don't want to count it because who else is going to. Sure, it's reflective of the overall points that they got that many starts at least four from nine different guys and then still found themselves. At the end of the season and in the playoffs, asking who was effective, who was healthy, who could they trust to not give up a 450 foot home run to Andrew Vaughn and low and behold, it was still happening.

20:01So I just want to say that for as much as you may preemptively, and I again, I'm guilty of this like I'm the one asking this. But how do they make it work? Are they doing a six man? Are they optioning guys? Are they putting guys in the bullpen? What about this guy? What about this guy? It's it's much more likely that that is not the outcome. The most likely outcome is that guys are someone is not effective, someone is hurt again, knock on wood, hopefully not in a significant way, but just in a way that misses a starter to misses a month. You know, we saw that from Tyrone basically every year, Shota dealt with that Matthew Boyd dealt with that not season ending injuries or debilitating injuries, but hey, they're they're out for a month, the month and a half. Who's making those six seven starts over the next, you know, few weeks. So that's the more likely scenario. So now, Brendan, I do want to get into Zach Galen specifically. And you know, hey, we've had plenty of conversations over the years in depth about guys that are never Chicago Cubs. If it doesn't happen, oh well, but at least just to prepare.

21:10If they do make them move what about him in particular is intriguing. And I think given that we're kind of looking at this as a big list of options and depth, what would he be bringing to this group, maybe not necessarily that they don't already have, but what is he adding to this group if they do end up making that move. So his stuff, when we talk about models, models fit profiles like Zach Galen, you know, when Zach Galen is bad, why he's bad, you know, when he's good, why he's good, he fits the models. And for Zach Galen, what I mean by that is look at this illustration on the screen right now. This is every single picture, reduced by all their staccast metrics in this, this reconstructed pitching universe. Now all the dots in the middle in the blue area, these are like siblings, these are like close stars. If you notice Zach Galen's in the middle, he's like a lot of different pictures.

22:17Sometimes this is a good thing. And for Zach Galen specifically, I think this is a predictability thing because Zach Galen for many years before 2023, he was productive. And we know why he was productive. The main reasons is that he has a fastball with a unique combination with some cut and some carry that he located well with a nice north to south profile breaking pitches and a change up to boot. So the reason he's been struggling over the years is the fastball slightly off. This is a guy who when he throws a fastball, the way it crosses home play quarry is in the 95th percentile of uniqueness. It crosses home plate at like an angle, let's say a imagine going to the left hand of batter's box at a more straight angle. And so that's what makes him unique. And over the years, it's deviated just a little bit. This is slight little hiccup in that fastball shape.

23:22But the reason to want someone like Zach Galen is because you know what needs to be fixed. It's not just a multi-pitch thing. It's not some type of need to develop a second or third pitch type like many of their flyers, they take a minor league guys, it's not that. The matter of trying to get that fastball shape, which is slightly off back to where it was three years ago. And then the question is, why is that happening. I trust the Cubs incredible investment in biomechanics in their pitching infrastructure to at least have a good idea of how to address that. What you're getting with Zach Galen is someone who's predictable, who's conventional, who honestly, if you look at the past three years, four years, he might be the biggest, most projectable pitcher on this markup because he's thrown more forcing him to anyone, you talk about percentiles, hundred percentile forcing fastball throwing last year, you have a huge sample size of what this guy does well and what he does not do well.

24:28If you're a model-oriented approach that the Cubs take, I think he does fit their desires, if you will, on spending money. Yeah, hey, I'm into it. I mean, I think at that point, you would be hard pressed to look at the group and not see the potential ceiling. And ultimately, you know, I don't know the exact number you're looking at, but you were hoping to have a handful of these guys healthy and pitching well when you head into October, you don't need all of them to be. So loading up on this depth and just building that potential ceiling is certainly a way to go, and I go ahead. I think that to go back to the earlier where they used the word fix, Zach Galen over the past four years, his expected ERA, I know some folks will roll their eyes at this, but his expected year rate was tight year to year.

25:34It's 0.8 to 4.2. That was arranged the past four years. That means at worst, his current version is a league average starting picture, the going rate of a league average starting picture on the market is about 20 million dollars. That is what his current asking price is. So if you actually go out and give a Zach Galen 20 million dollar contract, you're asking to produce league average value, which the projection say he's, he has a pretty good chance of doing. And then you get the ceiling and then you limit the difficulty in filling out your rotation 20, 27 and beyond, because showed us coming off the books, Tio is coming off the books, boy, it's coming off the books, you got to fill these roles somewhere. And in some respect is almost like a rolling over Tio is contract to Zach Galen with a similar type of risk profile and projection profile. Obviously, hopefully you have a better idea. I mean, you will one way or the other of what you're looking at in Cabrera, Kate Horton after a full year.

26:43Justin Steele obviously going to be coming back, but you know, hopefully by the end of the year, you feel confident going into 2027 that he's going to be good to go and back to his normal form. Yeah, and so I see Robert's question in the chat, can someone tell me if Ben Brown is working on another pitch, he's going to be an interesting one, Brendan, because I know, you know, there were plenty of people that when they were throwing him out there as a starter that never wanted to see that again. And I would expect, I've always liked the idea of seeing what he could do in kind of maxing out in short relief, like really committing to that, not as a piggyback guy or, you know, maybe he's spot starting, maybe he's, you know, in mop of duty, but really committing like, all right, let's see if he could be a lady and reliever, but he's also one of those guys that I think they're going to keep him stretched out. And try to succeed as a starting pitcher, as long as they can, and I don't know what that point is where you kind of fully move off of that, but they've always believed in the potential you've seen it at times, the flashes are clearly there.

27:47And I would guess as we head into this year that that's the angle they try until they feel like they've, you know, sort of exhausted every avenue of making that work. Yeah, and that is like, again, one of the consequences of going out and getting gallon, because if you're interested in giving Ben Brown that space that runway to grow into that pre-arb earlier guy, well, gallon will be eating those Indians and he'll be taking away Indians from probably Jordan works as well. So that is the pushback. And, but the reason just to hammer down this point before I do the next ad break, the reason for his act gallon is contextual. So it's the one year deals, the clubs have coming off the books. It's the next variation class, which is not particularly inspirational. And it's the depth in this current organization, that is a little shallow. I mean, we're talking about Jordan wicks, Ben Brown, their ceilings are obvious, but we've seen what their floors have looked like over the past two years. And I'm concerned that the Cubs can't get that high volume pitching depth for 2027 in and in a way, this is a 2027 move.

28:54And if it means my last point, which I wanted to get to after last segment, if everyone is pitching well. And there's consequences to this, but in a perfect rule, everyone's pitching well. Because Boyd showed an anti-ioner on one year deals, the front office has operated in kind of a cutthroat fashion before they may even if they don't deserve it, go to the bullpen. And if you got to get Zach gallon his false late because he's guaranteed. That's just how it works. You got to get Kate Horn is false late. That's how it works. Now you could potentially erode trust because those guys don't deserve to go to the bullpen and they may be making less money as a result. But fortunately, that is how baseball works and it is a business like that. Yeah, I mean, and you can approach the trade deadline a certain way. Again, if you're in this seemingly unlikely scenario where you have eight guys that are deserving of starting every month. Yeah, I mean, great. And then maybe you have to approach the trade deadline. Hey, we have a surplus here. Like, what else do we need? Like, how do we approach that?

29:56But yeah, I mean, you know, look like we'll be in that situation. If we get there, it would be a wonderful thing. You know, and Justin steel coming back, looking like his old self and slotting out on the occasion that already has seven guys who are also healthy and pitching really well. I'm obviously I'm not rooting against it, but it's, you know, again, going back to like listening to Jed Hoyer, he really seemed to be hammering like contingency plans and not not. Not facing those other issues of the lack of depth and the lack of options and not being prepared for every possible bad situation. And so I anticipate them kind of going the other direction. Let's hit our next ad break here and we'll be back and keep talking cubs. Okay, we're bringing in the new year with dry January. And if you're looking to be a little less saucy this month, Hooters has your back. Check out the black and dry rub all the flavor. No mess. It pairs perfectly with a non alcoholic option.

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33:07One of these quotes you know I think stands out the extra flexibility could lead the Cubs to add another hitter to a group that largely stayed healthy last season and improve a bench. That was mostly viewed as a disappointment moving match on to a super utility role while Breggman takes over at their base is a start the Cubs may also want another outfielder with a higher floor than the players they've recently signed to minor league deals intriguing is it not. This just goes into the like are they done like how much money might they spend because in years past Brendan like the majority of the talk we were getting from some of the beat writers was blatantly the opposite of this is not your territory putting it down like they are not going over the tax they are not signing this guy they're not doing this. And so hearing some of these things you know doesn't guarantee anything you know sometimes the smoke is wrong et cetera et cetera but it is interesting to continue hearing these like Zach Allen rumors these pitching rumors and to you know hear something like that read something like that.

34:14Patrick Mooney where you know we were talking at the the start of the show about guys like McCormick and Dylan Carlson that they brought into the fold on minor league deals Carlson in particular is you know not sizeable relative to everything else but if he does make the M.O.B. roster I think it was a couple million dollars so not nothing if he does actually stick on the M.O.B. roster but then to still be hearing like well they may not feel like they're done and that does you know take me back to Craig council. Council at Cubscon I think Cubscon of the winter meetings you know kind of saying like now I look at the roster and I don't think there I don't think there's enough we need more. And he did it as like a we're not done there's no way I accept this that was the tone I got from Craig council I don't know what that means to because. Ever since you and I started doing these podcasts it has been the first year of the luxury tax every single year they went over it's they paid about five million dollars and fees in the mid to late 2010s but it would be unfamiliar territory right now. They currently stand by M.O.B. Cuts by about a couple million below that first year of the tax they signed gallon there near the second tier.

35:21I don't know if there's payroll at least cash that can be rolled over from last year because they didn't go over from the bellinger money I don't know how many of that works but it's refreshing like i'm savoring the possibility i'm already content with the off season and now you're going to give me more players. Like relatively content in a reasonable form so I don't know I do believe if we're going to improve anywhere else just the money that does make sense in terms of projective value would be in pitching and would be in Zach gallon but if they go out and make a trade let's say match jaws involved in this trade maybe right maybe you get a positional piece that makes sense that does surprises. Yeah look i'm all for them and it to me it squares the same as the talk we just had about the rotation like just planning for these. contingencies having these plans in place in case things go poorly and that can include injuries that can include performance and you know look if you did trade Shaw we talked last week about liking the idea of having someone who had such a strong second half and who you believe in.

36:39As a former top prospect to be that super utility guy and serve as that depth in place of thinking like last year guys like bruhon birdie Justin Turner gauge workman it's et cetera et cetera Nikki Lopez right I mean the it's a longer list it's like one of those sparkle quizzes like sometimes I. Do you ever do that for the 2025 cubs by the way. No way it's just way less names then I would have thought and like as i'm going through i'm going oh yeah right right. I like that idea but if you move him because you feel like you're getting a significant prospect package from someone like Boston for example and bringing more you know young pitching into the fold I would like them to not just. Stay with the offensive group as it is but like continue saying okay we were going to use match on this way. Who are we using in that way now how do we bring in more depth to this bench and ensure that you can get guys off their feet every now and again as much as Dan's B is willing to.

37:45Rolling well Nico already said it ain't happening he was asked one single day yeah you see that you see that quote by Nico yeah i don't know if it if the listeners in here about this it's like for you YouTube this is like it speaks volume to who you. Cubs come yeah cubs come yeah so i forgot who asked from the Chicago media but the paraphrase a question was. Do you think you can give yourself some days off because match shot now is the super utility guy do you think you need those days off. Nico goes um no that was that. So you can plug in 700 player appearances for Nico Horner but it speaks to what you're talking about these guys don't want days off and i understand that especially as a baseball player you take a few days off you know your timings a little out of sync also you're kind of greedy if you have an old for four a day old for eight two days you want to get back out there you're miserable you're depressed you don't want to talk to anyone you just want to go out there and turn things around. That extra days actually torture it's actually not a day off it's actually a mental torture in the dugout so I understand why they they want to keep playing every single day well and now you know look I mean I think between especially bregman Nico and dance be.

38:54Yeah I think you're going to get rid of a little bit if you take the day off the other two are going to be out there they're going to be looking at you like what are you doing absolutely I mean I like like when you talk about this not to harp too much on it although I would but the fact that you and I are talking about bregman dance be and Nico three shared personality types the intensity I do just want to like keep slapping myself in the face this is remarkably fun I love it yeah. It's like it's going to be a really really fun year and having dance be announced bregman locked up it could be a chance for a really memorable next three years four years for this team. Yeah and I think you know going to the offensive front and like would they add another depth that field or would they add depth if they traded matcha in addition to some of these you know minor league or you know lower impact contracts I think ultimately like that's an area where you're really only looking to bring in a guy who can like do one or two specific things doesn't have to be something that you look at on the surface and think is an immediate home run.

40:02You may just be looking for someone like hey we need someone to hit lefties we need someone to hit righties we need someone to can handle high v low right handed pitching or we need a you know good defensive replacement that isn't the worst hitter in the league and sometimes it doesn't work like some of those arguments would have been fairer for some of the guys that they tried. Last year but I think the exercise is always bring in as much as you can and unlike last year last year they found themselves in a position where they were relying on those guys when they needed to send matcha down they needed those guys at third base to play every single day and they didn't get the return that they had hope for. In part because they weren't you know they didn't hope to utilize those guys in that way they hope to utilize them and hey you're hitting against this left handed pitcher today and that's kind of it hopefully matcha as playing the other six days of the week that's not the situation that they found themselves in until Shaw came back and was able to find his groove and have a really successful second half so.

41:10I think the hope this year would be especially with putting someone as solid and reliable and just great as Alex Breggman at third base is that anybody you're bringing in is serving as that depth you're hoping to only utilize them for those skills and not put them in a position where you're asking them to do more than you should reasonably asking them for yeah I mean. The the way this roster can go down is either an injury to the off field underwhelming performances by the DH spot let's say moist by steroids doesn't develop let's say matcha needs some more time to develop we have an offensive void there let's say say a strains his oblique like he's done a couple of times in the past or p. Armstrong got forbid hair on fire straight into the ivy like you do need I don't even want to be talking about that but you do need some like depth options that's why you're getting the bulk volume and don't Carlson and Justin Dean and Jasmine Cormick so I understand that ideally you would want someone that's already established on the major league roster and maybe that does come in the form of a trade right that's possible as well although I think it's just not likely you do have the ability to go out and.

42:24Let's say by junior July make a trade to accomplish that depth if you need it but the positional projections are extremely good that is the strength of this Cubs team they're pitching projections are underwhelming their positional projections are really strong among the best in the league so not just an action but the major league the whole entire league so if the money is going to be spent if you're following models is probably going to be. To ensure that you're pitching value meets the demand yeah and we'll hit our last ad break here in a second I do think you know fair to ask and I see the comment from dry secure the closer one yeah just if they if they would do any more in the bullpen I mean they've spent a good bit of money we'll talk about that out for the ad break out a nice graph got a shark for the bullpen so it fits into that I didn't sure about the Zach Allen chart but I'm not even Sarah knows about.

43:24I thought this one see if I can put it up on the border I didn't I didn't come across in our pre-production meeting that's came across that came across a minute 19 and 30 seconds on the show all right let's hit our last ad break here and then we'll finish up just talking about the Cubs might make more moves we'll keep this conversation going where might they be all right can you believe are already a month into the year that's usually the point where routine starts slip in a little bit and honestly that's exactly where he will has saved me my days they. I think a chaotic fast mornings turned into skip breakfast a motion dance be swan if you'll ground or so I could post my daily videos on Twitter whoops I'm running behind I need a breakfast that's quick complete consistent not another plan I bail on after a week that's where he will block addition ready to go drink comes in I keep one on hand for mornings when I'm rushing out the door and one right after a workout it's a complete meal it can literally grab and go 35 grants of protein 27 essential items and minerals no artificial sweeteners gluten free and it's under five bucks for trying to stay consistent this year this makes it stupidly easy right now give 15% off with my code Cubs of 15 for new customers only huge thanks to you all for supporting the show if you're busy this is an absolute game changer

44:42game day let me tell you about when game day men's health stop by the office because honestly it lined up perfectly with my worst nightmares my worst insecurities as a guy you start noticing it lower energy throughout the day less motivation the scales creeping up the hairs thinning gray hair got gray in my sideburns lot more gray query muscle start getting tighter my next tightening up I can barely get out of bed you don't always connect the dots but a lot of that can come down to low to stop your own as way more common as you get older than people realize game day men's health focuses on personalized care whether your goal is peak performance or just being a better father husband and man the process is super easy you're in you're out in about an hour there are family and locally own clinic and their success rate is extremely high the offer to sauce for therapy about a misalculation weight loss support and hair loss treatments does not matter for 27 or well beyond that if you're feeling off and wondering why this could be the answer game day men's health is here to support your journey and you can start feeling like yourself again all right Brennan so let's talk bullpen I think in that long conversation the other day Jed Hoyer you know kind of reiterated he talked about it a good bit but like also reiterated something we know about him that you know there's risk in the heavy volume approach to the bullpen and just kind of loading up on these guys and hoping you can get the best results out of them tinker with them put them in a

46:12better position to succeed than they've been in before but that he you know sort of feels like the bigger risk is committing multiple years to a high value reliever and if that doesn't go exactly as you plan it you're in a bit of a pickle there so not surprising that this is kind of how they put it together but as we talked about like spent a good bit of money here brought in some some strong options for this bullpen but have they brought in options that are in that high leverage late inning arena right that's that that's the question and do they need to or will they kind of just trust their ability to someone will be this year's Brad Keller we just don't know who it is yet yeah when it's when the off season started you start looking at Seranthany Dominguez you sign with Y Sox for two years 20 million dollars you start looking at Peter Fairbanks who signed for double digits in AV in those would be the guys I had had preferred the cubs look at but for 10 plus million dollars the comparison is Hunter Harvey for six million

47:26film may time for about seven million and they're able to save some of the money from not going double digits and spend on multiple relievers I think you can make a pretty convincing argument that at least for bullpen volume exceeds you know one guy that's had a couple good years just as a recent track record but the way I look at the bullpen now is look at all the different pitching options they have here's all here's every single move they have made whether it's returning guys or going out in free agency to get major league deals or minor league deals and I'm not even including the three most recent minor league deals that they signed up the past few days but just to give you a ballpark of what they've done they've signed one two three four five six seven eight minor league pitchers with profiles that are unique Colin Snyder is one of them Colin Snyder has a low release point as a fastball that should be tailing but for some reason it carries and it cuts Corbin Martin he has some major league experience throws over 95 miles per hour in a minor league deal

48:30you have Ryan Rollison literally looks like a Justin steel mirror I can get into this on a different day but his stuff almost aligns perfectly with Justin steel Jeff Brigham M.O.B. experience has some funk some low release his stuff fly Tyler B. is a former major league top prospect former first rounder Yaxal Rios throws over 96 more recently Trent Thornton towards Achilles has a good stuff some of that cut profile from his fastball I'm going to butcher this guy's last name a Gabe club Asideus I believe he six foot eight played it in the independent ball he has you know that's six foot eight big frame and then Charlie Barnes who played in Asia has very unique stuff lefty but no success at the organized state side level then you have Hobie Miller Caleb deal bar Jacob Webb Hunter Harvey Phil Maytime Colin Ray all coming in to fill out the bullpen so I just listed almost 20 guys Corey

49:30that you can look at each one of their profiles I think yeah that kind of makes sense I like the bulk approach do I think they need an experience high leverage reliever I absolutely do I just don't know if that's in the form of spending ten million dollars on one of those guys given their profiles that being said I would have done it but I'm not going to convincingly say that is a path for it I can say okay yeah Phil Maytime for seven million Hobie Miller for a couple million I see what they're doing there and yes given recent track records it does make sense to spread it out that what I like our friend Edward in the chat saying that was a chart not a graph I'm sorry Edward you know so now I don't know the distinction there weren't any plot points on that though I color them I color them fair yeah it was color coded it was nice to look at you are right Edward yeah I mean I I think I I tend to agree with you overall I think the stuff that we've talked about so far in

50:31this episode starting pitching depth continuing to pile on there and especially depending on what ends up being the outcome if there is a matcha trade if that smoke is even real etc etc those would be the areas that if they are going to continue pushing that would be where I would do it I think they've proven that they can do good work with this volume approach and they can find these guys worst case scenario you know you get to the deadline and feel like you don't have anybody to go along with Daniel Palencia and be those late inning leverage guys and you know they even did that to a degree last year even with the success of Brad Keller like Andrew Kitchwich pitched a lot of big innings for this team and that was a guy that they didn't pay a particularly big price for at the deadline and you know there he was like as one of the more reliable guys in this pen so it's not I don't want to I don't want to keep doing that though and going out no no no I can make your prospects yeah I was literally about to say that especially in a system that is falling further down the rankings so either not a lot to continue pillaging from

51:37yeah and I think at a certain point like Dan Cantrovance and his staff might be like enough you know like I'm trying to replenish this stuff leave me alone Jed but yeah I think if you're if you're going to push over this luxury tax I would do it in a more high impact way which I think is bringing in more starting pitching and if you do find those guys as you said you brought in some nice high potential you know formerly successful guys in on minor league deals if there are you know major league guys that you feel like it's slot into this bench right away I think they would be better served at that but it's it's not I think I think this front office and Jed acknowledged this the other day like they know what the risk is in in this bullpen approach it is very possible that some of these guys don't work out or you don't feel comfortable with them in high leverage spots and it's something you have to address but that's why you just sort of just pile it on there you know obviously very big on these biomechanics he's underlying metrics

52:42and there's a lot of these guys that they feel confident there's something they can unlock there and you don't have to hit if you bring in 20 guys to camp that you feel they're interesting you don't have to hit on all 20 of them you need to hit on what one or two given the structure of the current bullpen you know you have veterans in this bullpen guys you're expecting to be at least somewhat reliable terms of turning something around one or two that you know maybe surprise you or really do kind of take that turn that you are envisioning in your best outcome yeah I mean some of them that would even be that surprising look at Colin Snyder this is a guy who had like a two ERA season to go not last season but the prior season so some of these guys returning to form isn't even that far fetch just not something you would bet your life savings on but like you said if you bring in 12 guys on invites to spring training given how this pigeon infrastructure works

53:43yeah have one or two pan out that is kind of what you need to at least start opening day yeah so it'll be interesting I it's it is it does feel like uncharted territory to feel like you know not only are they deferring money they're you know probably over the tax I know some of the money is you know always still they're going to be over like and you know we're still talking about like no they feel like they're like their manager openly saying that he doesn't feel like they're done just in different ways today let's just say for this moment I mean we got pictures and catchers in two weeks this team some projections think it's the second best team the national league we have clean books we got personality types that could translate to being major league managers five 10 years from now like this is I've been waiting a long time for this I mean honest it got like since 2018 it's been a little dark most of the time and I say a little dark I'm kind of just you know being uh facetious like it's been it's been a slog I mean a lot of our discussions have been so

54:44negative uh so frustrating you don't long for the days of Rafael Ortega leading off god no offense to I mean like we were having discussions and like I'm convincing myself like oh yeah like Alfonso Rivas and Frank Schildel's a good platoon combo like that's the discussions we were having and now it's like damn like how do we fit in three gold lovers and their potential 23-year-old next gold clover in that shot these are the conversations I've been waiting to have I mean I feel like we're back to some degree in the mid-2000 tense okay good things happened in the mid-2000 tense what it what happened occasionally one time I guess they won the world series oh okay just making sure which I did I do love do you think I mean obviously I know your answer to this but I'll phrase it as a question even we're even you know as such uh you think you think our our boy Tony as is a good color man of course of course I mean first off give the cubs more

55:45national attention are you kidding absolutely love it I didn't even realize NBC was getting a national cast together like that so I'm excited to see I know they have a Sunday night baseball but I don't realize they're like bringing in people for different you know pregame boost seconds that's awesome when it's a low bar all they have to do is research the teams that are playing that night at all and they'll be clearing what ESPN has been doing for the last time so I didn't read the I didn't read the the blurb is he in the booth or is he in like a studio you even know I'm not positive I just know he's gonna you know him and I think Joey Vato we're gonna be that's pretty cool I mean listen yeah the good thing about Joey Vato is like his peak years co-estated with the cubs the worst years I don't really hate the guy that much I like his personality and so I like Joey Vato who I'd admit that should be a pretty good duo if they're in a studio together yeah but yeah I mean I phrased it as a question but yeah I'm excited for that and and I agree we talked about this too like uh you know it's it's great to have him back and be an ambassador for the cubs

56:51in in the way that he has been it's it's something we dreamed about like and and lamented when he was playing in New York like man like this is the the face of the cubs like he's wearing another uniform we need him back and I I knew he would come back I didn't necessarily anticipate it would be to this degree you never know that so many of these events and like you know just being this cubs you know sort of falling into that you know pattern that we've gotten so familiar with with you know guys like Billy Williams and and Fergie and the late Ryan Sandberg like and just seeing them all the time and them living and breathing Chicago Cubs baseball it's great that Rizzo is doing that and that he'll be doing that on a national stage and you know look especially for I feel like especially after the the concussion the injury and kind of the sudden drop off in his career I'm happy our boy Tony's getting the back man you know get that work get that NBC paycheck you know that's right they better be paying the guy pretty good and he deserves it yeah so all right I think

57:53that's that's all we have for you um we'll keep it keep an ear to the ground it sounds like the Cubs may still be active to a significant level to and you know just slightly interesting level we'll see if there is major breaking news the CHEO Cubs team will assemble in some form or fashion as Luke and Brendan did in the middle of a bear's playoff game because it was Braggman decided to join the Chicago Cubs because of us we will be here we'll break it down and you know we'll get you ready for spring training but it it it looks to be an exciting year for the Chicago Cubs and one that I'm very much looking forward to getting underway uh and seeing these guys show up in Mesa and and report and and get ready to try to win the division and anything they might be able to add on from there so it's real isn't it's like we're two weeks to west yeah especially as it's eight degrees in Chicago it certainly is but soon enough will be a beautiful story you gotta go to Arizona and go buy those C.H.O. ticket things you know 75 degrees green ivy will be there oh the

58:58best anyway Brendan and I will talk to you again next week we appreciate your support again visit all chio.com to check out the spring training road trip we will talk to you again soon and as always go Cubs