CHGO Cubs Related: What’s DIFFERENT About Chicago Cubs Pitchers This Spring?

0:00This is the CHGO Cup's related podcast. My name is Corey. I am joined as always by Brendan. We are coming to you live here on Thursday, February 26th and Brendan, February a slightly shorter month, but technically speaking month away. Month away, Corey, we're scoring runs now in spring training games looking at Jefferson Rojas hit a home run. We have Matthew Boyd given us quotes Jared Willis will be with us as you said to talk about that later on in the show. I'm feeling good. I'm feeling optimistic. I'm getting cool videos from our friends in Mesa. This to me still best time of the year. I've already put in my PTO for opening day against the nationals. So getting my ducks in a row, you know, now that it's it's close enough feels reasonable to be.

1:00Now we're casting that stuff. You bring a blanket to wrinkly. Are you a blanket to wrinkly type person? Are you just? I am a chronic. I always get it wrong. So whatever the situation, I could wear seven layers and hoodies and feel like you know what this has to be enough. I'll definitely be warm. I will not. I'm always one layer short or one layer too much. Now will the John Lester Jersey be over the hoodie? Depends on the mood on opening day. Yeah, we'll see that that's the only one that I have that has the World Series patch. So usually that is that's what I go with. Cubs, World Series and 26. Yeah, people forget that they're celebrating that later this summer. Oh, the 10 year anniversary. Yes. So, all right, anyway. I'm tonight's episode, like I said in the intro, we will be joined by Jared Willis about halfway through the show. He is live in Mesa. Give us the pulse. Talk about a nice start from Matthew Boyd that we saw on Thursday, three scoreless innings from Matthew Boyd with a few strikeouts.

2:08So I know he talked to the media. So looking forward to hearing from Jared on all of that, we will talk on this episode. We got a couple of injuries on the, you know, peripheral side of the roster, but they still do have some implications with things going forward and we'll just take a look at. You know what's been going on now that the Cubs have started games when we spoke with you last, they were getting ready to start spring training games. They've actually been playing those games, Brendan. So there's in some form or fashion baseball, sometimes available on your TV. Don't even get me started. I know. People are not the podcast. Yeah. So. Well, we're seeing, I think the most encouraging start to a spring from the pitching perspective. We'll get into it on the specific details, but generally, most of them are throwing faster, Corey. We're going to put our team hours for our faster show to faster. Kate Horton sent 9596, some said he was throwing 98 during the non game.

3:11Yeah, so, you know, maybe we'll see. Let me ask you straight away, Mr. Arizona here. Like do we hot guns? Do we, do we, do we trust the guns? How do we feel about that? I don't know. You know, they're changing technology all the time. right? If Trackman saying 98, I'm thinking it's 98. They got iPads set up all over the place. So I do genuinely trust it when it's on a multiple day span across multiple different fields and venues and attacks. So that is the case. I think you do have to trust it. Yeah. I mean, really, I just ask especially on Shota's because you know what, he was sitting or at least touching 93 the other day in his start. The reason I ask about the gun is because that was a huge point of concern when he was coming back from inventory. Correct. I'm seeing that everyone's going to be like, woo, okay. But you know, well, I mean, Crick household didn't give a sigh of relief, but it sure looked like it was when he was talking about you look like you'll take it over

4:13the alternative hot gun or not. Right. I mean, Crick household did point out the velocity for Shota, saying it's a good sign, talking about the health, beyond them, a few mechanical things that they got figured out. So I think it is a good sign. I think it's more likely that the gun was not hot. Yeah, just worth asking. And really, it also is one of those things where when it fits our narrative, I'm running with it. The guns are perfect. What does it matter that it's spring training? He's touching 93. Great. That's right. And you know, if this was something bad, it's if these guns don't matter. These spring training games are completely fake. No, I mean, Jim Steyon's velocity decrease doesn't actually, it's actually fake. It was too cloudy that day. Yeah, completely made up. But yeah, I mean, I do think, you know, one of the storylines we were looking at coming in, even just vaguely on Shota was his health, how he was feeling, how he was looking. So even if that is just one indication, you know, so early into spring, it's what you want to see. It was obviously a big issue for him in that second half,

5:15dealing with the injury and the mechanical changes that it brought about as he was trying to kind of compensate from that. And then of course, the decisions to start him, not to start him in the playoffs. And much was made about the qualifying offer decision. So certainly that's one of the things you want to see. Nothing replicates getting in there against MLB hitters at Wrigley Field and, you know, going through the motions of the season. But for what felt like a somewhat of an unknown, just how it would kind of carry over into this year, the early return is at least what you'd want to see. Yeah, I think so. And for the most part, the pitcher seemed healthy. Jordan Wicks did unfortunately go down with an elbow issue. Doesn't sound serious. It sounded as if maybe it could even be just a one week to two weeks. Sorry, we'll see with that. The pitching overall is healthy. The positional side we did see Tyler Austin, getting knee surgery, a cleanup, it could be months. Maybe it's two months, maybe it's four

6:17months. I'm not sure they are even aware of that yet. And they'll see how that goes. But no significant injuries so far. So everyone's healthy. Everyone's drawn faster. Everyone's looking good. They got Nico Horner doing videos on the back field, which is just phenomenal content. Great start to the spring. They did two videos, one with Nico narrating Ian Hap working out, and then vice versa. Oh, did they do Ian Hap? I didn't see the Nico narration part. Yeah, the response basically. Yeah, I didn't see that part. So if you're a fan of Cubs productions and the Cubs social marketing content, which they do, that's a course they do an excellent job. Yes, those videos are on social. It's just the two of them narrating what each other are doing, but they are very funny. No, I didn't learn something from them. So Nico was talking about how he gets used to running just left. Like he runs in left circles nonstop. And he was thinking, oh, I don't really run to the right, like doing

7:21right circles. So if you look in that video, he's doing right circles. I'm like, oh, he's actually doing it. He was just talking about this. So you see him running full of sprints, like doing the reverse or on the basis. I'm like, oh, he's actually doing it. So you do learn something in those videos. I think there you go, a little hidden gem of wisdom in the fun social videos. But let's let's start first, Brennan. I mean, let's just, you know, so some housekeeping stuff, because you mentioned the Tyler Austin thing, you know, again, out potentially months, you know, with the knee cleanup. And then Jonathan Long injured in Saturday's game. Uh, sustained a sprained left elbow in the game against the Rangers. Now looked a lot worse than to what it ended up being. But he is going to skip the world baseball classic, which he was looking forward to going. Um, and really, I think the thing to just address on that is both, you know, these are both guys who represented, uh, potential depth on this Cubs bench. Um, and I

8:24think, especially as it relates to any potential backup or kind of fill in with Michael Bush at first base. Uh, and so curious, you know, initially, obviously, I Austin wasn't the type of signing where it was going to have major implications. This was a guy that you were bringing back from overseas to kind of see if he could, uh, you know, tap into some of his power and, you know, bring it all together, uh, especially in platoon splits at the MLB level. Uh, but it does, you know, potentially throw some of that, that, uh, bench depth into flux a little bit and beg the question, like we've heard from Craig Council, especially on Michael Bush, that the plan is to not treat him so strictly as a platoon guy, um, and give him those opportunities against both sides of pitching to really grow and, and learn how to better hit against, uh, left handed pitching,

9:26but these are two guys who would have figured to get some of those opportunities at first base, even if it was just giving Michael Bush a day off. Yeah, I would say it's actually disappointing. I know he only got one million dollars. The expectations may not be quite high, but I was personally interested in seeing how the transition back to the US from Japan would go. Former top prospect mid 30s. We know the pop, we know the swing decisions. I was interested in the following in that storyline. So from that perspective, it's disappointing from the actual expectation of value because the contract is just north of one million. It's hidden, not hidden, but it's written in what the projections are formed, which is someone who is not likely to produce. So when you take a step back, I don't think it's a big deal. Yeah, they're going to have to figure out first base depth, maybe moistest plays more there. Hell, maybe we even see someone we're not even thinking about, get those reps there. My expectation is Johnny Long comes back healthy in a couple of weeks, maybe sooner than that. He gets an

10:31opportunity there, which I'm excited to see. We'll figure it out. Maybe they even signed someone else that we're not even talking about right now. I know our good friend Greg Huston that chat over here is talking about Garrett Cooper and Dom Smith. I got to tell you my brain at first was like, Oh, I wonder how they're doing. That's how sick I am, even though it's a joke right there. So, but in that light, maybe they do go out and look for a veteran on a moderately deal just to have depth pieces. The first thing I have to respond with to that, I didn't know. I mean, you're very cat Johnny Long. I didn't know that you, you know, were at that level. I'm like pretty sure they refer to him as Johnny every now and then. Greg, if you're still in the chat, you got to back me up on this. Don't they talk to me? Greg Huston is a wonderful and dedicated prospect writer and podcaster. I'm on his podcast all the time. We had such a familiar relationship. I'm on the pod all the time. I'm basically a podcast prospect person. Right. So, it's got to pack me up on this. I did tweet earlier this morning that Miguel Amaya has been

11:36taking some infield at first base. So, yeah, I do think it is. Oh, and Miller, too, perhaps, right? Yeah, I mean, I think you give you give guys reps. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mo get some opportunity there. Honestly, dude, like if they felt like seeing how it would go, like throw Matt Shaw at first base, if you need. Well, it's too short for that. I'm sorry, it's too short for that. You can jump out. But he's too athletic and short for that. I know, I know. It's I it's I really only say that to illustrate that, you know, you obviously had somewhat of a plan here. Again, the plan is to give Bush the runway. And I think there's a quote somewhere, you know, where Craig Council's talking about him getting 600 played appearances and really getting that opportunity to work through some of his struggles against left-handed pitching. But you try guys over there. I mean, ultimately, the defense has to be passable. You've spent a lot of money on a gold glove riddled in field. You can't have throws being dropped or out's not being converted. But, you know, you had you had some plans here and you're going to have to

12:41work through these injuries. Did your guy Justin Turner sign yet? You're shaking your head. You know, people listening can't see you know, I think your audio is going out. No, the dead air is fine. Everybody loves that. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's that'll be the curious thing. It feels like with their dedication to Bush getting the runway and at least having some other options that you should be able to try over there. If you need someone to spell Bush, I would be surprised if they went out and continued adding. But, you know, we've seen them add to that depth level in the outfield, you know, guys on spring invites minor league contracts with, you know, options that kick in if they make the big lead team. So maybe you see them explore that. It, you know, depends on the severity of these injuries and maybe what that exact timeline is. But more than anything, I was just curious to see what Austin can do. This doesn't rule him out, but I was curious. That's what I'm saying of his end. Disappointing because I was curious. Yeah. So it's, you know, it's it's not some big death blow

13:46to the team. But when you're looking at like interesting storylines, maybe something clicks and you kind of unlock a helpful piece of this roster, you just have to wait a little longer to see if Austin gets that opportunity. Yeah. All right. Let's take a go ahead and take our first ad break here. Come back around. We got Jared Willis coming in a little bits. One second here. All right. My computer almost froze. We know what I'm professional. First ad break here from Xfinity. Ever wish your Wi-Fi could just handle it like my computer right now? Every stream, every game, every device without slowing down or surprising you with a higher bill with the Xfinity five year price guarantee. You get fast, reliable, intelligently optimized Wi-Fi that actually works together with your home and your price stays the same for live five, four years. We're talking Wi-Fi that can spot the issues before you even notice them. So you can stream the big game and 4K hop on video calls even do podcasts

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15:53If you need a clutch refreshment, the drink of the month is Tito strawberry lemonade a home run blend of Tito's handmade vodka lemonade and strawberry puree for just eight dollars all month long round up your crew today. Sure on the Cubs at your local Chicago land Hooters, Aurora, countryside, downless girls, Joliet, Lansing, Melrose, all across Chicago land. Check them out at original Hooters dot com. All right, Brennan back with you here. And I want to segue there. And this is going to be our new segment. The original take brought to you by Hooters, cheer on your favorite teams from any of the 11 Chicago land Hooters locations or check them out at original Hooters dot com. I want to talk about Kate Horton. I know we're going to bring Jared on to talk about pitching in general. But you know, we saw Kate Horton's debut and you were tweeting a glorious supercut of his change up. You know I'm a change up guy. So I appreciate that. I just want to hear you talk about Kate Horton, what you saw, what you liked and

17:00yeah. Yeah, with Kate, you're looking just for the sustainability of the second half performance. 1.03 ERA in that second half, he was one of the best pitchers in the league. If not the best in the national league for a good multiple stretch performance there. Now with Kate, you want to see the longevity. So you want to see five, six, seven innings, you want to see the ability for the velocity to sustain itself early on here. But from what we're seeing so far, you're sure as how it looks like he's looking exactly like that second half. So I'm not looking for different pitch types. I'm not looking for evolving different pitch types. He showed enough last year with the sinker, with the change up with the four sameer with the sweeper sprinkling in a curve ball every now and then to give me confidence that that is a sustainable deep repertoire. I am simply looking for velocity holding up, which you did. I'm looking for good quotes from Kate, which we're

18:01getting. I'm looking for confidence and just to repeat up that second half. Yeah, so it was certainly a good start to innings, no hits, no runs, one walk, two strikeouts. Yeah, just about keeping these guys healthy, but you know, certainly I'm excited for his season. I think, you know, we all are, but just excited to see him unleash it. And we talk about it a lot, but those guys that have that kind of tangible hunger, that attitude, I mean, dude, you know, even watching the the spring training highlight to like the video that you cut up, the way that he, you know, leans over, I'm still staring at the plate, just excellent, excellent from an aesthetic viewpoint, let alone when he's, you know, putting up a historic second half. The mound presence, the way he leans over on the mound, he's like a like basically, it looks like a lion about to catch his prey, like he's

19:02literally can't be leaned over anymore facing forward. He's tracking guys out. I swore to God, I get jig area of flashbacks, the way he kind of picks up his sleeve doing this. I'm telling you, you just remind me of one of those psycho pictures. I was throwing this idea up to you. I was taking crazy a couple days ago, but I'm going to let myself dream for a second. If Kate is that second half guy, which I believe we have every reason to believe, he's a 3 3.5 year right, if not better guy, boy, looks healthy, Tyrone looks a lot like we saw him that second half with that kick change up, Justin steel comes back healthy in the summer. We got Edward Cabrera taking that next step. I got Jackson Wiggins. I'm thinking crazy thoughts. I'm thinking this is a ceiling that I'm not familiar with from a pitching perspective since those mid 2010s, since we were going into 2016 with that bulldog workhorse rotation. This ceiling that we're currently seeing right now

20:09makes me think crazy. Yeah, I mean, you, you were texting extremely optimistic. I was in a good show that Velo looked good the other day. Yeah, I was in a good, a good place. I was thinking really crazy thoughts because I mean, that was my biggest concern from the entire rotation was just Shota because you think of the age and you look at the reason why the velocity decreased. I'm thinking is there an age-related decline in athleticism? Sometimes it happens. We saw the extension shorten up the release point deviated. The velocity of course decreased, but the splitter also was out of whack. The velocity increased first Shota last year. The spin rate went up. It looked like he wasn't as athletic on the mouse. So that was, I thought a fair question. And from the first game, you kind of just pounced on that as being not the case. Yeah, I mean, look, a few spring training games and starts and all that other stuff. A season

21:10does not make, but I know where you're coming from. And it's what we talked about, you know, all of this offseason with this pitching group. Like that you're maybe looking for that stability and trying to find those kind of sure bets, but in pitching, especially, they're often aren't many, especially with the way that the game has trended. And even just seeing those little encouraging things, it's the ceiling is there with this group. Can they put it together? Can they put it together at the right time? Can they put it together for a solid duration of time? That's what the 162 games, plus hopefully the playoffs will reveal, but the ceiling is quite high for this group. And you kind of laid it out and, you know, we'll talk with Jared a little bit about this when he joins, like the hope springs eternal. So when you see these guys and they look healthy, Matthew Boyd, look good on Thursday, show this Velo looking good. Like you do kind of start to think

22:11like, Hey, you know what, like if the plan comes together, this is going to look mighty nice. We talk a lot about the worst case scenarios, naturally, as fans, you want to account for how you might be sad. At the same time, the variance goes in the other direction. It's not to say you dwell on the high ceiling and get yourself all worked up, but you have to at least acknowledge it. The acknowledgement is a Cubs are projected as a 90 to 91 90 win team somewhere in that territory. The high win projection is driven by their positional units. Most of those projections, one, you know, standard deviation, the majority of teams missed their mark, their projection by seven wins, okay. The way the Cubs miss their mark by seven wins in the positive direction is out producing on the pitching side of things. The projections for the pitchers are not as rosy as that of the

23:16positional side. Makes sense. You have Ian Hap, Nico Horner, Danse B. Swanson, Alex Brugman, you have a large sample size of precedence of above average offense. You do not have that for the pitchers, but at the same time, what you and I know from Washington team and all of our listeners is that the recent developments of let's say, Tio's kick change up showed as return in velocity. Cade Horner's development of two new pitch types, the second half last year, the projections naturally don't weigh those because of those are by definition outliers. Typically, you don't see pitchers evolve in the fashion of Cubs have evolved in a good way. That being said, if the Cubs do outperform their win projection, it has to come from those guys, right? If they hit, the expected projections is because what we're talking about didn't happen. I am optimistic it does happen.

24:16I'm optimistic we're at 90 plus one team. I'm optimistic that the pitching side does provide more value than the projections, and I would bet more money and inching towards 95 and falling behind 90. Hey, sounds good to me. Sign me up for that. I want to ask you about, we talked about them a little bit, and I think we're going to dive in more to like, boy, and some of the front line guys for now, when Jared joins after the second ad break here in a couple minutes. But I want to just ask you, when you watch these games, I know we talk about kind of taking spring games with a grain of salt and letting players work through stuff and understanding that it's not an immediate translation to once they are in the MLB season. How do you view and outing like the other day from someone like Jackson Wiggins, big time prospect, people are asking the question of, does he have a role on this team maybe later in the season? And again, you know me, like I could generally care less about spring training, but big time prospect, ending in a third, six hits,

25:20five runs, does strike out three. When you watch, I guess the getting to the core of the question, when you watch a big time prospect, and you're thinking long term and their ability, and when they come up and make their debut and all that other stuff, is there anything you're even looking for in the spring training starts? The first thing I look for is body language. I want to see how they move off the mound, catching the ball, how they react to port pitches. That was my first takeaway washing so I'm watching Cade when he comes up, I'm like, this guy is a psycho out there. That's the first thing. The second thing is I'm watching the deviation from where his pitch ends up versus where the catchers located. So I want to see how consistent he is locating. And then I can kind of just mentally do the math. I'm like, all right, well, he's hitting this spot. He's feeling himself. He looks good. The pitch types look good. Third thing is, what's the expectation in the pitch shape profiles? Is anything different? Is anything out of the norm? Any outlier type situations that

26:23we're seeing? And with Jackson, we're going to love Jared talk about this. But most of what we saw looked good, we resembled what we saw last year in the minors. Fourth is I want to hear what the coaches say about it if they're exuding confidence. And it appears as if he is, Chuckie, most of those boxes. But at the same time, it is one start. It's not the big league environment and things do change. And to draw big conclusions would either have to involve coaches talking about it, like in the way we talked about Brad Keller last year. Or in the shapes of his pitches, being so different that it deserves talking about it. And we're not really seeing that yet. So I'm going to reserve those opinions until we see him in big league action. Cool. Sounds good. Last thing before our break here, I do see it from our guy Craig in the YouTube chat, Ben Brown might pitch some meaningful innings this season. One of the more confounding players, I think in recent memory, someone who, you know, you can obviously see the potential and the stuff at times is really there. But other times the command and the ability to keep the ball

27:28in the ballpark is not so far on the spring. I think a couple of outings, two innings pitch, excuse me, just one outing, two innings pitched, two hits, no walks, three strikeouts. And I did like, you know, Brendan, I think in the past, you've not been a fan. I think he admitted to getting a little too, like jacked up or not being ready, like for the moment in some of those big games, I think in Milwaukee, in particular. And he, you know, kind of owned that this spring training, coming in and saying, like, I need to have a better attitude about stuff, be more confident about not let those games get to me. And, you know, kind of alluding to not being as productive as he wanted to be. So the mentality seems to be there. It'll be interesting to see what the Cubs decide to do. Keep them stretched out. We've talked about, you know, his potential is someone dialing it up in, you know, short relief, et cetera. I don't know. I don't know if I would say I'm a believer in him as a holistic phrase, but I, I, I, I, I, I, I remain intrigued by the idea

28:35of what he could do as a reliever, really dialing in some of those pitches and how exactly he was attacking hitters. So there is belief there for me in, in what he can do, at least to contribute to this team. The, the destination involves many roads. So there, there, there is a bend brown road to arriving at the destination of pitching value. Now that road got a little bit wider because he added a sinker. He discussed more confidence and the change up. So for Ben Brown, I'm looking at those two pitch types. He did show a few sinkers in his recent outing. The shape looked interesting. He had about 10 inches of run on that pitch. So we'll see more of it, right? But he is one of those roads. It doesn't mean the road is wide open and there's no obstacles, but there is a road there for value for, for Ben Brown. Let's take your ad break. We'll introduce Jared in and then we'll continue more spring discussion. All right. When game D stopped by the office, the biggest thing that

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31:47guest. That's for a CHG 10 years. So certainly putting up more numbers than anybody else and we're happy to have Jared. Join us. How is the desert air treating you, Jared? It's been good to me so far. It's been a really nice reprieve from Chicago. I left 20 something degrees frost all over my car and I felt hot today for the first time in months. And so that by itself is just glorious. Well, I can't relate but left me behind here in Chicago. But we want to talk pitching. We want to talk Matthew Boyd. I know you were there for that today, but where I want to start is just a general question. I know you haven't been out there for long, but I know Hope Springs eternal. I remember we interviewed Len Casper a long time ago and he spoke about that and kind of like, look, every team thinks they're better this year and whatever.

32:49But you've been around this team for a long time. You've been around a lot of these players in particular going into years where they might have talked like their expectations were decent, but that was not the case, right? We all know that was not the case. Even just being their shortly, Alex Breggman's here coming off a year where they got back to the playoffs, overcame a few hurdles, but ultimately fell short. We're kind of reading about that hunger and, you know, sort of a renewed spirit and what Alex Breggman's bringing. Do you feel that at all when you've gotten there and been around these guys even briefly? Yeah, I mean, I'll use a quick example from today that kind of illustrates that. So, you know, after Matt Boyd pitched, then, you know, we go and talk to him almost, almost immediately after he leaves the mound spring trainings kind of funny that way. And I asked him a question about just like, you know, the experience of, you know, he's preparing for the WBC, but it's also very early in spring training. And is there, you know,

33:53there a different feel to the work that he's doing, knowing that in, you know, I'm a matter of days and a week or so, he's going to be pitching in a much more high stakes environment. And his answer was that was basically like, I'm going out there to compete no matter what the situation is. And so, whether it's the spring training start that I think as we all know, you know, I've said it before to other people, like sometimes you take that box score and just throw it out the window because there's so many different things going on in a game like that. But a lot of it was just like his attitude as he was talking to me about a spring training start against the angels in February. And we saw some of the results today. I mean, the way he looked was, was very encouraging. And so, you know, I see that. And of course, we all, we all saw, we all read the peak roll Armstrong quotes from, from that article. It's really hard to look at things like that. And, and not since there's a difference in, you know, in this clubhouse,

34:54because I was here at around this same time a year ago. And I didn't really get a sense then in the same way that I do now, you know, that you do feel a difference. It's a sort, it's a hard thing to like define or, or measure necessarily, but you, you do get a, a feeling sometimes when you talk to guys, you see the look in their eye, the way that they respond to certain kinds of questions like boy did today. I think those are all signs that point to a team that's been in a way kind of galvanized by the success of last season, but then ultimately, the disappointment in when and how it ended, you know, when it very much looked like they had a real shot of at least getting to the NLCS, but coming up just a little bit short. So we always talk about the Cubs being a professional roster. They're very mature in their process. They're very process oriented guys. I want to learn about like your process. So when you go and interview these guys, especially in Mesa, right when you walk up to them, can you get a sense of like the

35:57mood they're in? Can you kind of like sense that and how things have gone? And with Matthew, boy, what I'm curious about because he is starring the WBC soon, is there any difference from your perspective? Now he's talking about ramp up, how he's talking about, you know, his performances that you can differentiate. Let's say last April, last May versus or even spring versus now. Yeah, I think with him in particular, I talked to him in the clubhouse last year at around this time. And at that point, his attitude was very much like, you know, he was just kind of excited to be there, happy to be a part of the team. And then now a year later, there's there's an intensity to him in late February that I don't I don't want people to get the wrong idea, but like that wasn't necessarily there last year. And I'm not saying that the way like that he wasn't taking what he was doing seriously or wasn't like driven to succeed, I don't want anybody. But it has to be some

37:00like comfort and familiarity with the environment too, right? So now like you're not you're not trying to feel out. You kind of you know who you are, you kind of kind of express yourself and not be on edge, so to speak. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's some of where it's coming from is he's he's comfortable now. But there absolutely was there was an intensity to him today that you know, just I don't recall experiencing a year ago. And I think a lot of that does come from, you know, there's a little bit of a shift, a little bit of a shift in a clubhouse like I said earlier. But you know, usually this time of year, when it's spring training, it's typically it's more relaxed like these guys are, you know, especially early in spring training, they're they're still kind of getting themselves back into the routine, back into the rhythm. And so a lot of times when you talk to guys this time of year, there's just not the same, you know, tenor to their responses or to their attitudes as you're going to see like in July, August, September or something like that.

38:03So a lot of times in in Mesa, it's just sort of, I don't know, relaxed is the best word I can think of. And there, but there, there was a little bit of a tinge of a difference there. I'll say this like, you know, I walked in there today. And so, you know, I'll be back in tomorrow in the next few days after that and get a chance to talk to even more guys. But I am getting sort of the almost palpable sense that there's a difference in that clubhouse. Yeah, I mean, I, I asked, you know, I, I can maybe like, willing it to be. But I, it isn't interesting, especially as you bring up like, you know, last year and ramping up for the WBC, there are like, feels like there's a few like, um, converging things that, you know, are going to contribute to that. Like, you have guys preparing for the WBC that we know can be a very like charged environment, guys very prideful representing their country. And we've seen those games like the, the energy and the enthusiasm in the few tournaments we've

39:07seen pretty, pretty high when you see that you have some guys coming into contract years. And then, you know, we even talked about it when the offseason was getting going like, it's hard to measure how you would see this, but you would think that getting falling behind in the division and they're getting knocked out by your division rival would, you know, ramp up the sort of like, all right, you know, we're having fun and we feel like we're going to be a good team, but there is serious business to be taken care of here. And so like, it does feel like just from an outside fans perspective, all of that coming together, especially when you throw in another baseball rat, as Brendan always likes to say, in Alex Breggman, I'm not surprised to hear that answer from you. I guess it's a long-winded way of saying like, it tracks with kind of just what's going on in their schedule, their careers, and where this team is at. It feels like a perfect storm for

40:07some of that stuff for this to kind of be a season where, you know, they're celebrating 150 years, they're celebrating the 2016 team, but a good portion of this group is possibly unsure where they're playing next year, and they've got some unfinished business. So I'm glad to hear it, and I'm not surprised to hear it as well. And I think, you know, to your point about Breggman, I think there is a, there's a significant difference in the intangibles as far as what a guy like Breggman brings to your clubhouse compared to a guy like Kyle Tucker last year. Kyle Tucker loaded with talent, very much carried the team in the first half, injuries hampered him in the second half. I think there's also be a lot different if he was healthy, but the way that the other guys have responded to Breggman is something that I did not see with Kyle Tucker a year ago. There is a, there is a, they're almost tangible difference. And so Breggman, I think there's a, not that these guys need it, but like a level of veteran leadership that, you know, Kyle Tucker, just because of his

41:12personality, the way he's wired, he just isn't that guy. But Breggman very much is. And so I think you're going to see a difference in like maybe their offensive production is more or less the same between the two of them, but I think the big difference you're going to see is what in what Breggman does for the clubhouse. And again, the clubhouse that's already absolutely stacked with veterans, absolutely stacked with guys that are baseball rats. And you throw with somebody like Breggman into that mix. I think it's just, I, that's something to watch this season for sure. Yeah, I was listening, I mean, P Chrome, Strong's been doing a media blitz. I feel like for the past week and a half. So he's been on podcast, been on basketball. Is he said anything? No, where are they? I know, right? He's over. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen anything either. He's a big, he's a big LA guy as we know. But he has been just unpromptu talking about the effect of Alex Breggman, discussing swing decisions as the main driver of what he's noticing for wanting to improve for

42:15himself. He's talking about how Alex Breggman discusses certain scenarios like, hey, if you're looking for a first pitch breaking ball, are you still swinging at it? Even if it looks good like stuff like that. And so peace describing the process as shifting because of bringing in a different player outside the organization. He gave John Malley his kudos, he gave Dustin Kelly his kudos in their process. But he does discuss the addition of the hitting philosophy that Breggman brings in that wasn't in the organization last year. So when I talk about clubhouse leadership, I'm more so in my mind, thinking about the effect of other guys changing and adapting in their actual value output. So I'm very fast and to see what Pete looks like in the first few weeks. If we see any different swing decisions, I'm also interested in seeing how that manifests in older guys who have been around the corner like Danzby Swanson, he was talking about the effect of Alex Breggman and

43:15MLB Network. It's very fun to see someone have such a large impact. And it's not to pounce on Kyle Tucker. And I know some folks may interpret your words as a dig and they're it's not it. It's not a dig. It's just the uniqueness of Alex Breggman. There's not many players in the league that demands their respect that Breggman gets because of the clubhouse culture. The guys start his own baseball facility in Arizona that other guys go and work out him. Like he's a unique guy because he has that type of respect. Well, and before you jump in on that, Jared, I do just want to say you mentioned the the foul territory interviews that the guys were doing. I love that Breggman said that Danzby is routinely reminding him that he was drafted number one ahead of him and that they won the national championship. I just love that. It's one of those things that you they wondered when they were in the same clubhouse. And he was like, oh, yeah, he's he's reminding me all the time that I went number one. You did that. Yeah. I mean, for folks,

44:19you know, no, so Breggman was number two at LSU, right? Then Danzby at Vandy, number one. So the entire cup's roster is a stack with first round draft. This is very fun to see. I do want it because I do want to make sure that as far as like Kyle Tucker goes because you're right. It's not a dig on him at all. It's just purely a matter of like certain guys are wired certain ways and have personalities that bring different attributes to a team. And it's just a difference in Kyle Tucker's personality versus, you know, Alex Breggman's personality. And I know there was some, you know, some stuff out there about Tucker and, you know, during this offseason. And for all of the times that I saw him in that clubhouse last year, I didn't necessarily match up with what I observed. I'll just I'll just say that. So. Yeah. And that's what Michael Bush said as well. Yeah. So, you know, I always, things like that, I naturally question, but in that case, it definitely just didn't line up with with what I saw.

45:25He's just he's a quieter guy. He has a very like understated personality. And that's, you know, that's who he is. And so, yeah, definitely not a knock on the guy. Just they're just different personalities. Listen, you can acknowledge your truths, right? He's a he was a softer spoken dude. Didn't like the attention, the media attention. Breggman's not saying he likes to media attention, but he's in the media. He does YouTube content for other guys like he he likes to talk about the sport. It's just a very different type of expression from Breggman. And frankly, that's the type of player I gravitate to. Love Kyle Tucker's home runs. I gravitate towards the baseball psychos. I like that intensity. It's why I like Nico Horners, why I like dance we swans him. Alex Breggman is those guys in even a more expressive way. So I as a fan, I like that way more than Kyle Tucker. And I'm not even digging on on Kyle Tucker. Definitely more questions for you. Just want to throw out there.

46:26Next week, Cacia will be in Arizona from the fifth to the eighth. We've a lot going on. We got the Bulls guys out there. We got the Bears guys out there. I'm actually going to go. So I've been convinced I'm going to Arizona next week. There's an event Friday night. I got to tell you it's at a bar near Paradise value. If you are not familiar with Arizona, let me tell you this. They're abusing it up. They're going to the most bougie part of Arizona for a Friday night dinner, seven to 10 p.m. You can go and check it out. They also are going to Cubs games throughout the weekend. So stay tuned for that. You can go to allcacio.com, find tickets, I'll a cart style to purchase whatever you want. But I will be there Friday nights. Lance Briggs, I believe will be there. So you know, if you want to meet Lance Briggs and of course myself, you know, everyone wants to meet us, us two guys, right, Cory, checking their head over there. And in that order, yeah. In that order, then, you know, we'll be there. Two former athletes,

47:30Lance Briggs and me, you know, will be Friday night and Paradise Valley. So that will be fun. All right, back with Jared here and Brendan's, you know, autograph session, Ad read there. But I want to just ask you about the other guys you saw. And if you have more on Matthew boy, too, but you know, it was some some solid names there on Thursday for the Cubs. We talked a little bit about Jackson Wiggins and, you know, obviously, it's a spring outing, et cetera. But just, you know, the pitching you saw today, anything stand out. I think that's always one of the main things. Again, I know you haven't, you know, you just got there. But I'm always curious for those that are around the team every day, especially in the spring, you know, who are the guys that are? We heard it last year with Brad Keller. Everyone was like, hey, you got to check out this bullpen like we were getting these Velo reads like it was clear even as a fan on the internet. Like people are looking at Brad Keller. Like that's the name

48:34that's being talked about. So just anything like that that's popping around like, hey, you know, not an obvious guy, but you got to check out what this guy's doing. Well, I think in Wiggins case, today, I think the most notable thing was just that, you know, this was his first spring outing, you know, he's facing major leak hitters, you know, for the first time in spring, one of which was Mike Trout, which, you know, that's by itself. That's a tall order, you know, he's pretty good. Did you get him out? He gave him up a double. So Mike Trout. His worst guys that give up doubles too. Right. Like, you know, raise your hand if you haven't given up a double to Mike Trout. That's right. But no, he, because he came in, Wiggins came in in the fourth, and it was back-to-back doubles to lead off the ending. And most of what I saw was he was very fastball-heavy, but the velocity was way up there. He's up 97, 98. So he was throwing

49:38hard, wasn't mixing in a whole lot of other stuff. He only threw his curveball once, because then he told us afterwards that he's, you know, he's still getting the feel for it a little bit, which is normal this time of year. And so I think what we saw today was a good example of guys where it doesn't matter how hard you throw if you're just pounding the zone with a fastball, and you're not really mixing in much else, major league hitters are going to get hits off of you. Because yet, at the same time that he was giving up a lot of hits, he wasn't missing the zone very much. I don't think he walked anybody. I'd have to go back and check to verify that. But he had some strikeouts and there didn't walk anybody. So when I saw that, I think this is a guy that Espring goes on, and he does get a feel for those breaking pitches. And, you know, the double that he gave up to, to try out was on a cutter. As, you know, as he's working on some of that stuff, I think that there's, there's some legit potential there. I don't know that he could be like a

50:42Brad Keller type, just because, you know, he's a rookie. But yeah, I like what I saw from him for the most part today. Somebody that I'm a little curious about is, and want to see some more of his, is Riley Martin, just because as a, as a lefty, I think there's interesting potential there. But like I said, somebody that I'd like to get more of an eye on, did get to see him a little bit today. But yeah, would he's somebody that I've got my eye on? Yeah. So for those, you know, no, Riley Martin triple A guy the past two years, last year, 2.69 year ran triple A tons of strikeouts. So last year, 11 K, 29, the previous year, 13 K, 29, the problem with him is just to command in the walks last year, nearly a five walk, 29, previous year, north of six. So that's been holding them back. I asked the pitching coach last year, and like, show me who you like the most of all the club skies of triple A. And number one on the list was actually Riley Martin from a stuff perspective, just him trying to own in and actually making the pitches work for himself and

51:45not being all over the place. And we've seen guys in the past where, you know, sometimes they just stuff like stuff for days, but control it. And so that's going to be sort of the maker break thing for him, I think. But yeah, the, the loads of potential for high, high strikeouts totals and as a lefty, you know, would be a tremendous act to that bullpen if you can get a handle on that stuff and not put so many guys on the basis. Did you talk to Jackson at all? Were you able to get any one? Yeah. So, so what's his personality type? You've talked to Kate. We talked to all the guys, right? Like can you kind of pick a picture of who Jackson Wiggins is? Well, I will say today was the first time I've ever spoken to him. So, um, and as you introduced yourself, my name is Jared Willis and Jacob. I did. Yeah. Oh, did you? Okay. Well, there you go. And I, you know, but of course, what are the odds he's going to remember? But what I was trying to do that, especially when I meet some of these guys for the first time, but he didn't, his answers were very short, which sometimes

52:49is, can be a product of a lot of things. A young guy who's not used to talking to media very much, but also sometimes it can be a product of somebody who's just like very, very focused on what he's doing. And like talking about it sometimes is like maybe not the way that he operates or at least maybe not the way he operates in the aftermath of just having come off of the mound. Because that's kind of how he came across to me was like, this is somebody who's, who's now wants to have a chance to really look at what he's done, because he kept talking about like getting back to work the next day. Like I'm going to go work on this or not. Now I want to focus on this because he did talk about that curve. Is there anything in particular that he wants to work on the caught your attention or some more general? He mentioned like specifically the curve ball that he only threw once and he said that, you know, that's something he still wants to keep working on. Can continue into work on getting a feel for that? Because he said mostly like it was just good to get feedback from from hitters

53:54and just see how they were responding to what he was throwing and feel good about his, his, his fastball, but it's getting that breaking stuff in there. And I did ask him about like, hey, you know, if you got your eye on the Major League roster, what are you thinking? You know, do you want to start a reliever? But he gave the very, I think standard young player answer of like, I'll take whatever opportunity is there. So, but yeah, came across to somebody who's just very, very focused on his work. And he is one last thing that Jackson Wayne's poor return over you, Corey. When you talked to Kate Horton for the first time, was he also short in responses? Yeah, he was. He was. Okay. And is he still short in responses? I mean, the clips I get seem to be rather long-winded in a good way. Yeah, because that's that's where I think sometimes, like I said, you see that with young players fairly often when it's just not something that they're used to. And often times with young players, it can go almost like either way, like they talk a lot because

54:58they're just, you know, this is not something they've done before. And so they'll just talk and talk and talk to you. Or it's just the opposite where they they barely say much at all. And Horton at first was a little that way. And some of that too comes from, you know, when you approach a player for the first time, they don't know who you are. They don't know what your, you know, what your deal is, what you're coming to them to ask about. So they can be a little guarded sometimes, which is why oftentimes I'll try to have just a, like an informal chat with them where I'm not recording it. It's not an interview. Like let's just talk about something so that when I do come back to them at some point later, there's at least a little bit of that established. So that's something with in Horton's case that I think the more he got to know some of us, I think there's comfort there that now some of his responses you're seeing where he's, he does feel more relaxed and comfortable about talking about what he's doing. And it does make sense. I mean, Jared, of course, would never do this. But I can imagine if you're a younger player, you know, you worry about saying the wrong

56:01thing. And now it's getting printed that you said, you're, you know, better than Paul Skins. And you can book at, you know, type of thing. Like I, I get that. That seems rather daunting if you've never done that before, you know, and then you're expecting your quotes now to be in six different newspapers and podcasts and all these other things. Last couple of minutes here, Jared, what I wanted to ask is I feel like there's a lot of interesting stuff to focus on in this spring. There's a good number of players that, you know, we talk about all the time. They're kind of going through their business. We know who they are. They're getting ready. They'll be ready. And we kind of know what to expect from them. But I think between, you know, someone like Matt Shaw and his role and whether he can play the outfield, you know, Brendan and I were talking before you jumped on about, you know, depth at first base. If it becomes necessary with a couple of these injuries, you know, you've got some veteran outfielder options, guys like Dylan Carlson, Michael Conforto, now in the mix

57:06that Brendan and I didn't even have a second to talk about. Chaz McCormick, guys trying to, you know, make the team, but, you know, are, are sit at least in some respect, you know, establish players at the MLB level to varying degrees, the pitching staff, et cetera, et cetera. As you are arriving in Mesa and getting ready to interview and write and cover all of this, is there one thing that has you most intrigued about this team? Like, this is what I'm really curious to see unfold in the next month or so before this team break camp. The first thing that comes to mind for me is just how they are going to almost reassemble their ball pen, because they, they did lose, you know, a few of those. I'm not able to hear, Jared, Brendan, can you? I can hear Jared loud and clear. It's you and your microphone every month. We've got to fix that microphone. Go ahead, Jared. Yeah, like I said, just who who fills in some of those holes that are now in the ball pen because of

58:09like we we talked about Brad Keller a few minutes ago, the loss of some of those pictures and just seeing who steps up and fills some of those spots because there are some some guys who with some exciting potential, but at the same time some real question marks like Daniel Polensia, for example, showed us that he's capable of being a very exciting closer, but, you know, the injury kind of cut that short and so that's the first thing that I think I'm eager to see how that develops and plays out, but then like you guys mentioned, the depth question at first base, I know there's talk of like Miguel Amaya possibly, you know, working on spending some time there, do you have somebody like Bia Starros attempted to do that? We're going to go on overtime here, we're approaching it an hour, we'll wrap. What are you saying? Yeah, just the the first base, the backup first base question,

59:14because I do think Bush is probably the right to get the vast majority of those starts, but there's going to be days when when he's not the guy, so then they don't really now that Tyler Austin is is out for a significant amount of time that does take away one of those options, I think. So I'm intrigued by the possibility of Miguel Amaya getting more starts because he's playing some first base. So yeah, so Amaya, I mean, he looks great. He's from a batting practice perspective. I'm a big batting practice guy, I'll raise my hand, I'll admit that, but a lot of the changes we saw in post a second half in 2024 seem to have carried over now for almost a year and a half, so it's encouraging to see specifically the stride. So if you're watching Miguel Amaya, or whatever, what is different, he kind of just picks up this toe, he puts it down, he does not have a stride. On the other hand, Shaw had a huge stride, which sometimes he tailors down, PCAs had a stride, he's had a toe tap. Amaya just picks his toe up, so that is the big change that

1:00:16I'll be continuing to watch. We are going to wrap it up here, we're over one hour. Appreciate you coming on Jared, sunscreen, SPF 30 at the minimum, people say go SPF 50 plus, but I do think, you know, you've been in Chicago for a few months there, maybe a little pale, get some sunshine, SPF 30 is going to be great. I made the mistake years ago, like 10, 15 years ago, I forgot to put sunscreen on during the first February game. I was an idiot. I had 10 lines for a year and a half, wore sunburn in my entire life. It sneaks up on you, especially you come here from Chicago, and it's like, this is, you forget that it's February, it's so nice here, so not prepared for this. So that's a good tip. I'll put some on tomorrow before we go. I'm standing around with the backfields. We'll see you guys all next week. Be sure to follow Jared. He has a lot of content coming up, talking to the coaches, players, Luke and the boys will be on throughout the next week, and then we're going to be in Arizona. So again, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, March 5th,

1:01:20two eighth, check out all cacio.com for more details. Cory and I will be back next week. He's looking blank right now because he can't hear me. Maybe I put him in time out. Who knows, we'll never know. Thank you for listening. Talk to you next week. As always, go Cups.