CHGO Cubs Related: Chicago Cubs Spring Training 2026 Is HERE! Cactus League Play Begins!

0:00This is the CHGO Cubs related podcast. My name is Corey. I am joined as always by Brendan. We are coming to you on February 19th. Thursday. I had a look at the date. I never know what day it is until the regular season starts. I don't actually know what day of the week it is or really what month it is. But on tonight's episode, Brendan, we are the last show. And if you're listening to this on Thursday night live on YouTube, hello Friday morning, perhaps in your morning commute. This is your last day without some version of Chicago Cubs baseball exhibition or otherwise for several months, Brendan. Here we go. Eight months. I've been waiting the entire winter, waking up every day, coming home, not knowing what

1:00to do with my time. And finally, Corey, I know when I wake up in the morning, I get to read about Cubs news. When I come home in the afternoon and evening, I get to watch either Cubs, how much are Cubs games? This is the best eight month stretch of the year. And we're at the forefront of it. I'm beyond excited. Yeah. So as we were saying, the cactus league schedule kicks off on Friday, the Cubs and the white socks out in Arizona, that game at 205 Central time. And it will be James and Tyrone getting the ball for the Chicago Cubs before he heads to the world baseball classic for Canada. And I think on tonight's episode, we'll talk about him. We've spent a lot of time, Brendan, looking at, you know, maybe some of the guys were hoping are those top of the rotation guys, Horton, Cabrera, Justin Steele, when he comes back, Matthew Boyd, as he was last year for

2:00the better part of the season. And we certainly spent a lot of time on show to Imanaga with the qualifying offer him accepting all of that stuff. But we really haven't spent a lot of time on James and Tyrone. And he's been a pretty important part of this rotation, albeit not always the top part of it. But when we talk about that depth and the importance of it, a solid starter like James and Tyrone is certainly an important one. So we'll talk about him. We'll talk about Matt Shaw continuing to get those reps in the outfield, Craig Council, alluding to potentially some starts when a left hander is on the mound and him playing in the outfields. We'll talk about that. Some of PCAs adjustments, plenty to talk about on this episode as the Cubs begin playing baseball games. I got to tell you, Brendan, before we jump into the first cactus league game, James and Tyrone, like we got the, you know, they had their photo day out in Mesa and that first shot of Alex Breggman in the Cubs pinstripes wrapped up. Absolute cinema.

3:04I've been way I dreamt of that photo so much. And seeing it, I'm just like, this, this is perfect. It fits. Looks great. It looks, it looks so good. Cubs productions, unbelievable job the past week, doing exactly what I want to see. I want to see sunrise photos. And we got those with Cubs pictures in addition. Players, we got PCA with a stormy Arizona sunrise. We got the infield crew with the sun gleaming over the clouds. I mean, phenomenal job. Again, just to emphasize the best time of your Corey. Well, hopefully, you know, the best is the best. I mean, I October, you're going to say you're too nervous in October. Yeah. I mean, do you even eat food in October? You're the one telling me you don't eat. Corey loses 20 pounds every October. I do enjoy it, though. I live for the stress, I think. You do have a different aura about yourself in October. Like if I talk to you after, I mean, I'm the same way, I don't get me wrong, but like,

4:06I can notice it with you. When the Cubs win a game in October, it is as if the world is perfect. We live in perfect harmony in October of the Cubs one. Listen, man, that's what we're here for, right? But yeah, it's, it's fun getting all that content. I mean, I know what it, you know, he was, his regum was voted in some survey is like the most irreplaceable, you know, free agent or signing from this off season. I love it. Yeah. We already got complaints about Braggman being talked about too much as a club boss leader. I'm like, listen, you keep post articles about it. I'm clicking. I don't care how many clubs I love. Yeah, I can't get enough of it. But ahead of the spring slate, I do want to start with James and Tyrone and dive into tomorrow's starter and just the impact that he can have. So I think it's, he's had some weird periods, Brendan. I, you know, one of my favorite times I think talking with you on this show was when

5:09his fastball was all over the place. And we were looking at the horizontal movement every episode. And I do mean that because it was fascinating. It was fascinating to sort of try and watch a picture like figure something like that out and like seeing the struggles, but being able to kind of identify like, this is what's happening. And I'm not sure he can deal with it. If you can hear my dog, uh, Dexter, he's hyped for spring. He is hungry game tomorrow. It all day until this hour to start barking. So, uh, that's just how that is. But Tyrone, uh, you know, one thing I think that stands out about him. And I know he was chirping at some fans because they were getting on him when he gave up like that first day of workouts. He gave up a home run to Alex Breggman in the back fields of Mesa and fans were getting on him, you know, blah, blah, blah. And he was sort of chiming back at them, you know, we're somewhere saying, Oh, he's in midseason forum. And he was like, Hey, like it's not really a diss when you give up three runs or less in 19 of 23 starts. And you're

6:11starting meaningful playoff games, which a two Shay and I, I love a, it's like, you know, he's clapping back. But in a very respectful and like, what's that's James and Tyrone? Uh, 19 of those three runs or less, 14 of those 23 starts in 2025 of the quality start variety, which of course, famously, if you remember that, uh, you know, peace on the score, really bad, right? Quality starts are really bad. Um, all of a sudden, there's comment. Yeah. Um, he's been a valuable member of this rotation. And I think when we look at the, I, I don't want to use the word concerns, but just the potential, uh, drawbacks, let's say of some of the other guys in this rotation, or the things that could get in the way of them being great in reaching their ceiling, you need sometimes these stable guys like Tyrone, who, you know, 23 starts last year, but the previous rear, previous couple of years with the Cubs, at least 28 starts in both of those, uh, years,

7:13it's been a stable option, even if inconsistent at times. Yeah. The way he's evolved as a player to achieve that consistency you're talking about fascinated because in some respect, it's a template for how you can apply other young pitchers to evolve in a similar fashion. So we talk about Tyrone four years ago, he was a north of South pitcher. He was throwing a forcing fastball and curveball that just went, you know, straight down within that same window. We talked the first year as a cub about the fastball losing its shape. It was running more. It had more run by the end of the year. Tyrone said to paraphrase, I can't fix it. Something's going off my finger coming off the ball. I can't fix it. It'll be an offseason plan. I'm thinking, oh my god, this is not good. Finish the year with a 4.8. I believe you're right. The next year comes back, looks much better. Earray drops to around four last year. I would describe as a new guy. He developed a kick,

8:17change up. He started using his cutter more and that sweeper that he developed in the first year as a cub became effective, more effective with the other two pitches. So in three years as a cub, he developed three unique pitch types and the change up in particular was one that gave him a lot of success against the left handed batters. So I'm interested in seeing how a healthy Tyrone performs in this year. We talk about projections, projections more or less way, each player's last three to four seasons with an historical comparison. James and Tyrone is 2022 and 2023 is not comparable because that version of Tyrone did not have these three pitch types. So when I look at how you can break the projections, it's those players that have recently evolved and developed new pitch types that give me confidence that if a projected four year A guy is giving the cub

9:24to 150 and he's well, maybe that 150 and it could be a 3.5 year, right? If the change up is good, if the sweeper is just as good, and Tyrone fits that mold because he is the staple of what we describe as an evolving pitcher with those three pitch types. Yeah, I'm curious to see his impact this year. And look, I know sometimes even going back to the quality start thing, I know it's not the big time stat and some of those starts, yeah, he's giving up three runs or less, but he wasn't going deep into the games, et cetera. But you need guys like this. You need these guys that you can trust and rely on. And especially if you do have those other guys in the rotation healthy and pitching at their best, you get Justin steel back later in the season. Having a guy like James and Tyrone at the back of this rotation as one of the guys here, and not really counting on for anything other than just to be a stable presence there makes the rotation very, very strong. I mean, it comes down to health, right? He saw what he was capable of when he was healthy in

10:25September and October. I mean, by October and the playoffs, he was my personal most trusted story. Yeah, he was the most reliable guy they had. Yeah, that's right. And he came through in a question. I mean, it was in that Milwaukee series, right? In the San Diego series, I'm stressing when Tyrone's not pitching with anyone else starting the game. I believe Kirk Counsel was saying exactly the same. And he used Tyrone as the example to inspire confidence about other pictures. And to paraphrase what Counsel said last week to the Chicago media, he said, for pictures, it can change really, really fast. It can involve having a new pitch type. Look at Tyrone, for example, is what Kirk Counsel said. And it makes me think, okay, well, who else can do it? Can it be Ben Brown? Can it be Jordan Wicks? Ben Brown developed a new change up. Jordan Wicks developed a new curveball. Can it be other guys just returning to health? Shoda returning the health guys just evolving the attacking Edward Cabrera, maybe changing how he attacks batters. There's a lot of different ways the Cubs can achieve real starting and pitching value

11:28that is not being projected right now. Yeah. And you know, just speaking of those playoff performance, he starts two games for the Cubs, eight innings total to earn runs, seven hits in those two games. And I think just goes to showbred and like something we've talked about in terms of best laid plans and how you kind of envision things getting to the playoffs. It's not always as you necessarily anticipate it's going to be. I mean, it wasn't last year at all. Yeah. And as you said, stuff, you know, he's been a reliable guy at times and consistent at other times. But I think if you had told people that perhaps he was going to be your most reliable available arm come October, as they were going through the playoffs, like I don't know that a lot of people would have believed you. But sometimes guys step up and you know, it's who's available at the time and Tyone did that last year. So curious to see, you know, how he starts things, you know, as always, like I don't care what his results are tomorrow. It's going to be interesting to see if and how he's used in the WBC.

12:29I think that's an interesting thing for any of the guys that are going for the Cubs. I mean, I think obviously you don't expect them to be worn out. But you know, I think that's as fans of a specific MLB team. That's I'm excited for the WBC. But especially for the Cubs guys, I'm like, all right, well, let's keep the workload light, you know, like let's keep everybody healthy. Let's not go crazy here. Keep it efficient. Yeah. If you need to run guys into the ground, like I'm sure there's a couple brewers or partners on your roster. That's right. Listen. All schemes needs to throw a complete game. Shout out. He does. He needs to throw a lot of bullets. I think that's correct. Yeah. So yeah, I'm looking forward to to Tyone. And you know, I think he's another guy too that had brings that veteran presence. And I'm excited to see him continue to grow with this group in a year where these expectations have been raised. I'm always intrigued by those guys. He hasn't been a long suffering Cubs, right? But like he was at least here a little earlier than this nice little window that maybe we appear to be in now. And I'm always I always enjoy watching those guys finally

13:32get to go into a season with raised expectations, heightened, you know, sense of excitement, et cetera, et cetera. And I think even, you know, from his like light chirping with some fans, like I think you can feel that with him too. Like I think they're they're ready to go and they're excited to get this year underway. So we'll see what he brings in this first start with the white socks. But I think Tyone, if not a particularly heralded one, I think a pretty, you know, potentially big part of this team and at least the the way that this pitching depth is structured. If he can be healthy and continue being mostly efficient in this rotation. So let's hit our first outbreak here and then I think we can come back. We can talk about match on the outfield. Let's do it. All right. Bet 365. Whatever the moment, it is never ordinary at bet 365. New customers here is a breaking news bet $5 and get $200 in bonus gets win or lose. Just download the app sign up a code CHGO 365 deposit $10 place of $5 bet and you're in and the action is not stopped there with the early

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16:49the Cubs are talking about utilizing him, he represents to me that biggest potential to be a difference maker for this club. I think we've talked a lot about the expectations that a lot of players have on this Cubs roster, a lot of them very consistent. I think you kind of know what you're expecting. Certainly some of them continue to elevate their expectations and their ceilings, but I think switching Shaw from the everyday third basement to this potential super utility guy, if it works, Brendan, it is going to put the Cubs in a fantastic situation. What do you make of the effort potentially to have him play in the outfield? It's curious. I don't know what to think of it. I have an unclear expectation for him. But I do know in the past couple of years, the defense in a right field has been a little bit underwhelming. I think that passes the I test. I was underwhelmed by talkers defense in a right field. Rigly field plays a little bit challenging with the wind, it plays challenging with the well in right field. You got 350 plus down the line.

17:53So talker looked a little bit uncomfortable. I thought at times, not bad. He rated just below bleak average with minus two. I was above average. Say for the most part, I think does look fine. There's just instances where things are bizarre with them, losing the balls in the lights, losing the balls in the sun. But for the most part, it appears as if on the regular, he does track the ball well with Shaw. I'm just asking to do what talker and say it have done and maybe even a little bit less. I'm just looking for slight competency. I'm not looking for a gold glove defense or a right field. I'm not looking for an out above average in the red. I'm looking for an out above average. It's not just ice cold blue. Yes. Something that's within the 30th to 50th percentile of value. Would you like to me, and maybe this is projecting too much on to him, but I would be kind of surprised if he's not passable out there. He's such an athlete.

18:57That's where I think of it. I mean, there's certain areas where you're just not sure. Can he, I'm not expecting him to start hosing guys from the right field corner at third base. I don't think he has the arm for that. But just in terms of his athleticism, moving from second base to third base is certainly not the same thing as playing the outfield. But young guy, heralded prospect, obviously, a very gifted athlete. I don't know what I think the ceiling could be there. But I think I would be surprised if they tried that and we were like, whoa, like this is not going to work. Like this is a disaster. Yeah. I mean, the athleticism speaks for itself. Ninetyth percentile sprint speed. It's a familiarity, though. Sure. Yeah. Of course. Off the bat. The one area of immediate concern is this comfort, comfort with PCA and center field who's unique for obvious reasons. So I would love to see Shaw play a ton of right field in spring. Those gaps are huge, by the way, in Arizona. So the more comfort those two can get,

20:02especially with Pete playing in the World Baseball Classic, the better. So honestly, my preference, we'll see how correct does this. My preference is to play Shaw almost every inning that PCA is out there, every single inning in right field. He's going to have to get used to. We saw it early in the season last year where, you know, happened PCA seemed to have to kind of like work through like Pete, you don't need to call every ball that's in the air. Like you can call most of them, but sometimes I can catch this, right? Just do what Tucker does. Tucker was just veering off every single time. All right. All right. So it was Bruce Levine, I think, on the score of the other day, and he was suggesting that specifically when left handers are starting against the Cubs, that Suzuki would DH and Shaw would be in the outfield. That's not necessarily going to happen every single day, but certainly that represents the better opportunity for Shaw to hit. And maybe that's the plan. And, you know, look, we've looked at the numbers, you know,

21:03between Sayah, when he's DHing, when he's in the outfield, I do think getting him off his feet every now and again is a good idea, letting him rest. Like, and it's not because I have any qualms with his defense, but I just think he's shown that DHing sometimes and not being out there every day helps him as a hitter. It's interesting. Again, I agree with you in that I would love, you know, I do think continuing to get that work at third base is going to be important. He made major strides there, but it's still a relatively new position for him. And as we know, just like getting those reps, getting your 10,000 hours is going to get you, you're going to get better. You're going to improve your foot first. First positional player, at least from what I can tell, you know, seeing the photos, the first positional player in Mesa dating back to the end of January. So he's well aware of what needs to be done. He lives there, doesn't he? He might have much. Not that it matters, but I think he lives there. That being said, though, like, you know,

22:04when you make a move for Breggman, and we, you know, Nico even joking about not, he wasn't joking, but like, you know, the scrum had a joking tone to it when they were asking if he would ever take a day off, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, Nico was definitely not joking. No, no. But like, you know, you do have an infield of guys like, you know, I think you want Craig to get them off their feet every now and again, not played literally 162 games. Don't play through, you know, a fracture grip or anything like that or a bum knee like take a day off every now and again. But you do have three guys, especially in Breggman, Danzby, and Nico that, you know, you're not, you're expecting them to play basically every day. So Shaw being able to fill in not just at the age or not just for one of those guys. I don't think they'd ever put him at short, but, you know, it's you never know. Probably something he could do at least for a day. Yeah. Having, having the ability to get

23:06in that outfield and switch in with those guys, give say a day off, obviously if by Estero's, depending on how that's going and his opportunity is at the age, it's just going to give him all the more opportunities. And if he is able to continue making those adjustments and capitalize on the better portions of that big second half that he had, you're going to want him in there. And that was something that was discussed when the Breggman move was made, like, well, what if Shaw continues growing and reaches that ceiling, like, where are you going to do it? Like, this is a way for him to really solidify, like, okay, like I think between spelling these guys, D Hing, and if he can play in the outfield every now and again, like that, he should have plenty of opportunities. I would think it that it's not the only path forward to get those at that. So we can look at just how they're spaced out right now. Let's say Kevin Alcantara does start to perform better than expectations. A Contra gets more at bats. You can still shuffle the pie around if that's even the right term for it. But you can start subtracting high. I don't know. Listen to one. I like it.

24:08I got the flu over here. I'm like, Michael Jordan doing. I don't like it. Okay. But you can still make the at bats work. It's another road to achieving value. And if it doesn't work out defensively, then I would like to see Kevin Alcantara obviously take that next up. If he doesn't work out, then maybe McCormick gets an opportunity. If he doesn't work out, then maybe of Dylan Carlson around the corner as well. So there's many paths forward. The question I'm asked by Cubs fans who may not follow the team as closely as you and I is what about the off-field depth? Yeah. So who's replacing Tucker? I'm like, well, you know, you have say it's a zoo. He going out and right field. And you have voices by estero as D H. He's like, well, what about what about Shaw? Mcwell, Shaw can go over on the diamond spelled Niko, spelled Brugman, D H. And they're asking me, well, what if what if Sayah gets injured? What a peak is who's playing the off-field? I'm like, well, you got a good point, right? So would it be Alcantara? Would it be Shaw?

25:11Having both those guys get as many reps as possible to show early on that they're viable would be really important. But that is one of the most pressing stories in spring is how Shaw plays defensively. How Alcantara improves offensively in whether McCormick or Justin Dean or Dylan Carlson, can take that next step and prove their 26-man viability. Yeah, it's a very interesting thing to watch and just how the Cubs decide to structure this. To me, though, Brendan, like I really do think like the the bigger thing is Shaw's hitting. If he's able to hit consistency, make those adjustments and be a consistent hitter. Like we've just it I'm not I don't want to make it seem easy. And again, I'm really only going for like a, you know, trying to get to passable, right? But like we've just seen like there's some awful defenders that teams throw out in the outfield. Now that's not what the Cubs are going for. Of course, like their whole thing is defense. But I I don't know man,

26:13I just have a tough time not envisioning matchoff being able to play a passable matter like the thing in right field is the ball angles can be weird. So if you're having a dominant right hand in lineup, those slicing fly balls in the wind, those are just weird balls to hit. Now here's the thing. If you're if you're if you can match up, which might be easier to track down, if you can match up a lefty pitcher that the offense is facing with a opposing team who's lefty dominant, then it might be easier to, you know, track down those balls, right? At the same time, if you're facing a right hand, a dominant team who doesn't go up all that much, well, that maybe gives another reason to start Shaw as well. All this is to say, there's ways to play the spray shards and give Covenal Contra a time right field or maybe the next guy up. If you are concerned about the defense, you can kind of hide Shaw in right field based on spray shards. Yeah, one and and you say

27:14that I don't know if this is why, but I think he's working directly with Quentin Berry and he was saying that the first thing they're doing in these one-on-one sessions is angles off the back. That's what it's about. I mean, some guys like legit say they prefer a place that are a field because it's easier to pick up. Yeah, and writing this at that. Yeah, I mean, look, you know, Wrigley Field is windy. There's bricks. There's alleys. On your eyes. A tough place to play. I mean, all the guys say that. So we'll see, but I do have the confidence in that and I it is one of the more fascinating things to watch. And I think especially is spring training gets underway just like gauging how he looks out there, how often they're throwing him out there. And if it works, it's going to be a really valuable asset to this team because it's going to allow not only for Shaw to get more playing time, but it just gives Craig counsel the ability to continue to mix and match with these lineups, especially with the split dominant guys that you have in this lineup and get guys off their feet. Like not need it, you know, we talk,

28:14you you mentioned it, the outfield deck, like, you know, are these three guys playing every day, like being able to give these guys a day off and switch them around a little bit, not every day, like it's a big deal. And it helps, you know, prevent that wear and tear. And again, for some of these guys that are so drastically different against right-handed pitching or left-handed pitching, it just gives Craig a little more ability to finesse those matchups and say, hey, you know what, like we don't like this matchup with this guy. Here's another way we can sort of move these pieces around. Yeah, I don't want bad defense out there. You're right. You can sometimes hide poor defenders in the outfield. Nick Castellano's in a right field, Kaushuorber in a right field against the Pirates in 2015. You can do it. I just value defense so much as a fan. I love watching quality defense that I think Shaw could turn into one. And I'm hoping he does. And if he doesn't, I still want a quality defender in some fashion. So if that's becoming a contour or someone else, I don't like leaving that position open just for like, you know, whatever.

29:17Yeah. And that's a fascinating part of it too. Last thought before we hit our second ad break, like you want him to be passable. Like I think that's like a good standard, like just to get to that point. But ultimately, unless his hitting is like off the charts, I do think the Cubs, you know, they prioritize defense across the team. It's very important to their identity as a team, not just on the infield, but all over the place. Like we talk about the gold gloves, but it's also, you know, somewhat of how this pitching staff is built is to have the defense behind them, scoop up these outs and vacuum everything up and keep the ball in the glove versus on the ground or anything else. So that will be an interesting thing to track. Like you want to give him the runway to try this and you're going to need to give him the reps to get better. But if it doesn't progress to a certain point to the Cubs ultimately say, listen, like we have to prioritize defense here, like we're going to figure out another way for him to get those at bats if he's indeed needing of those at bat. And listen, short stops. Last point, shortstop coming through the system.

30:21Most times they move to a different position. The best short stops stay at shortstop. They're really good short stops. They're really, really good ones. They move to a different position. So they can match Fernando Tatees, right? Arguably the best defensive right fielder in the league right now, right? So he was a shortstop, not even two or three years ago. So guys move off. It's very much a possibility that Shaw turns into a competent defender. I just want to see the reps and confidence that he can make it work. I really do. Okay. Sticker, second that I break here. Come back around and keep getting you prepped for tomorrow. Potawatomi casino. All right. So let's talk about your next weekend escape, or maybe just your next big night out because Potawatomi casino hotel Milwaukee is everything you need just in one spot. We're talking thousands of the latest slots and table games. And if you're ready to refuel, you've got a ton of amazing restaurants and bars to choose from, whether you're feeling fancy or just want a quick bite, they've got you covered. You don't even need to leave the

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33:32and of course they're not the same player, but you know, it's a tough needle to thread sometimes. You want to make more contact, but do you sacrifice that power to do so? Do you sacrifice some of the ability to really kill those pitches when you get them if you're making an effort to make more contact? Now that being said, with Sayas, I think there's plenty of metric, but even anecdotally like there's a lot of times where we see him swing and miss, or he's talking about contact, but just, you know, staring at balls down the plate. So I don't maybe contact. I know he phrased it that way, but I know what he's getting at. It's a tough thing to balance. Right. I don't think he's talking about contact the way you know I talk about contact. I think he's talking about strikeouts. Yeah. And so that's what I mean. Yeah. Right. And with Sayas, he has an above average contact rate, so my brain starts spinning. Like, well, how much more contact do you want to make? He makes a 78% contact rate, about five percentage points, or sorry, five percentage better than your average guy.

34:36I don't think that's what he means. Sayas weirdly has a below league average strikeout rates, which is worse than league average, but he makes above league average contact. So to your point, it's leverage. It's count leverage. It's plate appearance leverage. What is causing someone who makes above league average contact strikeout more than the average guy? What has to do with count situation in the context of the at that? So I love that say it acknowledges it. I'm not sure how you go about addressing that. We've heard aggressiveness is something Sayas fluctuated between. We've heard different early at that swing decisions is something he's working on. We'll see. Maybe it's a growing process, but we've covered this now for several years, trying to understand why Sayas makes more contact than your average guy, but weirdly strikes out more than your average guy.

35:37Yeah, it's a tough one. I'm curious to see, you know, if he does make any, I don't know that these would necessarily be mechanical changes, which is process changes. How is these process changes? Yeah, it's, you know, look, like I get as frustrated as anybody watching him stare at balls, like down the pipe, you know, you need him to come through and I feel like those plate appearance has happened too often, but I mean, there was a stretch there. I think in like what to August, the Dex messages flying off our phones were not happy. Yeah, no, agreed. And I say that as it's say a truth or from day one, but you know, the tough thing too, Brennan, like these are tough things to adjust and address. Like, you know, you're talking about a guy last year that hit 32 home runs. He drove in over 100 runs for the first time in his major league career, you know, 326 on base, 478 slug, 123 WRC plus and some of those numbers are only as lower because he did have,

36:40you know, that month long stretch or whatever, he was just dreadful that, you know, he ends up coming out of and being one of their better players down that last immediate stretch as big hits. You know, in the post season, like, it's a tough, it is a tough needle to thread. Like, you don't want to correct too much. You know, he reminds me of, have we talked about this, who he reminds me of, four terms of in like his offensive profile? Yeah, just like in terms, I think we have talked about this if you're going to say Alfonso Soriano. Well, actually, that's actually a good comp. I was thinking, no, let me explain this because there's ways there, they're dissimilar. Kyle Schworber. And here's what, here's what I mean by this. When Schworber was a cop, he was making above average contact from a slugger's perspective. And there are so many stretches where you and I are like, what is going on? Like, we were exhausted. And when he was let go during the COVID season, you know, we wanted him back, but at the same time, like, all fully admit, I'm like, oh,

37:43it's kind of nice not having to stress out about Schworber not reaching his potential. We knew the potential was there. It's just never clicked. And with Sayah, I see a lot of the same I see that the power is really high in potential and ceiling, but it just doesn't click with consistency. So I wouldn't be surprised if it all comes together. We start seeing 40 plus home runs, you know, 280 bad in the average and we're thinking crazy thoughts. Yeah, I mean, he certainly got the potential. I think there's those periods where he's a little too passive, but overall, like his, his numbers have been, he's a really valuable player for this team. And I think, especially, like, sorry to interrupt there. I just wanted to be for I forget this. I don't think his passive at times. Like, I do think there's some passivity in his approach, but I think when he's really off, the timing looks weird. Yeah. Like, it looks like he's swinging three seconds late on fastballs, and he's out in front three seconds ahead of curveballs. It's an interesting quote too,

38:46because ultimately, like, you know, you want guys to strike out less and, you know, more contact is sometimes good. It depends on the kind of contact you're making. And, you know, you'd prefer not a big lineup full of guys, you know, that don't hit over 250 or anything like that. But like, you know, the cubs need into slug, like to his point, like, he's one of the guys that the cubs are looking at, like, fair, but we need you to slug. That's right. A 338 weighted on base average in 2026 would be a disappointment for me, especially losing Tucker, a 338 mobile for Alex Breggman. I'm fine with it, but I have higher expectations. Now, the projections may not be in line with my expectations, but I want Sayos Suzuki to have 35 plus home runs that near 270 or above have a decent walk rate put up a weighted on base average of 375. I think it's absolutely realistic. And it's these huge dips in the valleys that have prevented him from

39:52reaching that. Yeah. And so we'll we'll move on to talk about somebody else, but I think it's interesting. Last note there, like, you know, you do look at the way that his game has evolved as an MLB hitter. He did end up playing, you know, a decent number more games in 2025 than his previous years, 151, 132 in 2024, 138 in 2023, 20 homers in 23, 21 homers in 24, 32, which jumps to 32 in 2025. But of course, the big difference for him, 285 average his first year, 283, his second year, 245 last year. So you can sort of see the fluctuations in, you know, you don't always have to choose one or the other, but it has been interesting the way that he has evolved. The RBI's go way up, the homers go up, but the average takes a pretty big hit. And, you know, to your point about weighted on base average, 358, his first year, 365, his second year, 343 last

40:53year, despite the higher. Is it 343 last year? I don't know why it's at 338. I don't know if they changed. You were pretty close. I would know, I would know, when did you read the off the top of your head? Like, I think that's fine. I mean, I can remember, I remember weighed on base after just eight years ago. I do see in our very good friend, Everett Towscher 8377 is talking about, say, coming through him big spots like you intuitively. I'm like, I agree. But when I look at some of his splits, it doesn't align with that thinking. He batted 311 with runners in his core position with 12 home runs. When the playoffs started, he was basically buried bonds at the dish. I mean, he's not only hitting big home runs. He's hitting go ahead home runs, game tying home runs. And they say Suzuki was one of the hottest hitters in the league with Michael Bush during those first two series. Yeah, it certainly wasn't their fault that nobody else got hits or score runs. Yeah, I mean, they were, they were doing their part. So yeah, going to be fascinating. I

41:57just wanted to bring up that quote because it's, you know, it's always interesting when you head into spring training, especially, you know, now is fourth year in the league, always just sort of interesting to see what these guys are working on or excuse me, his fifth year in the league now. Crazy. Yeah, I'm sorry. When I was reading those steps, when I say his first year, I meant his second year. I don't know why I was ignoring his first year, but that was 111 games, rookie year as an MLB player. So a little harder to draw those comparisons as he's evolved. But this is his fifth year, if you can believe that. That's not up on me. That doesn't seem right. I know. I mean, I'm looking at guys around spring training. I'm looking at dance piece wants. I'm like, what year is it? This is his fourth year already. Like how do we get through dance piece contract that fast? I'm looking at you. I'm looking at Nico Horner's debut from 20 was 2019. It was thinking about his debut. And now whether or not the cups are going to even move on. I mean, it's crazy. And then we always talk about this. But you brought this up in 2017. And when we were talking about E and half in 2017, E and half the rookie. And you loved his first

43:01interview. Talk about E and half. And he was saying, Oh, I just want to be a versatile player. I want to play in the outfield, playing the infield, whatever, wherever the team needs me. Right. And it's funny to see him transform into the team leader. Then years, you know, the Cubs player rep in some years. It's a fascinating storyline to follow. And it's speaking of spring training. C Hio is going to be out in Mesa, starting March 5th through the eighth. We got the Bears guys out there. We got the Bulls guys out there. It's going to be a beautiful time of year. That is the best time to go to Arizona. If you like 70 degree weather, if you like blue skies, if you like going to a casino, a brewery, a Cubs game, a Bulls game, any game, Arizona is the place to be. You can go to a question and answer with some of the the staff at C Hio talks to some of the Bears guys, the Cubs guys. It's going to be a great time. March 5th to eighth. Go ahead and check out tickets to get to this event. Very inexpensive. I was

44:06looking at tickets myself, actually, just to see what the prices are for games. It actually makes more sense to spend money on that event through C Hio. It does the spend single tickets for Sloan Park. Go check them out. Yeah. You can't beat, I see Barb in our live chat. We are live, Barb. Glad to have you here. But yeah, look, I mean, Brendan says the best time of year in Arizona, spring training, Luke Stuckmire. How can you beat it? That's right. That's the real key. That's the selling point. Well, Luke Stuckmire. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. Multi-time local Emmy award winning. And his portals out there too, by the way, just saying. Yeah, I don't know how I feel about the brand. It's a separate thing. We're getting distracted, doesn't it? We can talk about Luma on audience, too. No, that's not, that's not Cubs really. You know, I was the first person in Luma on audience in Phoenix, Arizona in 2016, just saying. I did a track. Yeah, that tracks for you. Yeah, I believe that.

45:07All right. Let's talk about PCA. I know you were kind of taking a look at some of the things that he might do, how he might be preparing, taking some of the words of Alex Bergman to heart. What are you looking for? I know we talked about that a little bit in the way that he was. You know, hoping to get his on base levels up and, you know, just some of the things that we always talk about with PCA and that Bergman was kind of diving into him. But as we start these spring training games, you know, and as we're seeing PCA over the course of the next, you know, what is it like a month? Just about a month, a little over a month. What are you looking for? What kind of changes maybe do you expect to see him make? I am not looking at him taking a swing. I'm looking at him stepping into the batter's box. This is what he said. He said that his stepping into the batter's box got out of whack. His setup wasn't consistent. I'm like, I asked kind of a weird way of putting it. So I'm looking at like, is he going to develop a big poppy routine?

46:08You know, spitting the hands and do the whole no-margarcy apart thing. I'm here for the new Pico Armstrong pre-bat routine. So I'm interested in seeing there's some similar patterns we start picking up there. He does just because you bring it up. I mean, yeah, we've talked about some of the changes he can make to his game. And, you know, I remember we talked to like, you know, kind of that balance between, you know, you have a guy hitting home runs off of his shoes and at his eyes, like, you know, how do you, do you rain that in? Do you not rain some of that in? Just in the name of making more contact or striking out less, et cetera, et cetera. Of course, his development, I guess, left-handed pitching is going to be a significant one. Maybe even pairs with the conversation we had about Matt Shaw, like how he develops against lefties and how comfortable Craig Council is playing him every day. Of course, he's the best defender in the league at the position and invaluable base runner, but something to keep an eye on, depending on how much struggles or succeeds against left-handed pitching. The worry is you overcompensate and you take

47:12away a future of your approach that got you there in the first place. And that is aggressiveness and conviction with your swing and decision. So I am in a worst-case scenario, a little concerned that there might be an overcorrection. But I don't think Alex Bergman will let that happen. No, I mean, Alex Bergman will let anyone have an overcorrection. Are you kidding me right there? I mean, if anybody ever wants to be sitting at least five or a whole runs. I like to think that Bergman has already had the foresight to have that exact concern, and he knows exactly how to prevent that. Yeah, I'm very curious. What I was going to say about his, you know, stepping in the box routine or his pre-played appearance routine, he not necessarily related to baseball, but I do wonder if Pete has a sense that he has the ability to influence like an entire generation of youth baseball players. I think I've said this before, like the irony of you and I, Brendan, is that you are the data guy, the big, you know, stats.

48:14You don't like the, when I say, when I call you a nerd, but sure. Lance Brazdowski, the wonderful marquee contributor and analyst referred to you as such, and I take that as a statement of fact. Well, Lance was wrong. He's right about everything else besides that. Sure. Okay. Anyway, he's like programming like, you know, data graphs at three in the morning on his computer, but don't call him a nerd. But the irony is you were a, as you put it, a star baseball player. Sure it was. If not for your bum knee. That's right. Farsity sophomore year. I worked in MLB front offices, but I never played baseball. So I, the reason I even bring that up is I only know anecdotally and from experience the effect that like no Margarcia par ahead on people our age, and how even if you would go to a scrimmage or, you know, go with your friends in the park,

49:18everybody's doing the thing with their batting gloves. They know it by heart. And that's how it is. You know, we saw kids showing up to Rigglyfield with their hair spray painted blue with blue stars in their hair. Like PCA is one of those guys, man. Like if he starts some crazy pre-played appearance routine, like you're going to see a lot like in my, you know, where I grew up, like, you know, the BGRA league, like kids in Buffalo, we're going to be doing whatever PCA is doing, whatever that might be. So if he does a back flip every time he gets in the batter's box, yeah, so be it. So be it on me. Oh my god. I was growing on man. I got no Margarcia Pars, Louisville batting gloves. So that was a big deal for me, big deal. You know, I used to, when I was a little bit older, you may never have noticed this, but we talk about Alpazoriano. It was like hop in left field, right? He did something else. And he used to like run and kind of like tap his toes, drag his toes. I'm like, this guy's the coolest guy in the world. I'm going to start doing that. So I'm running out there to shorestop tapping my toes like Alpazoriano. Like it's a little stuff like that that

50:21definitely catches a lot of young players eyes. Yeah. So very curious. I mean, you know, again, you know, that's just a small thing on PCA, but I, you know, I think especially pairing with like to say a Suzuki conversation and just, you know, how these guys, it's always a tough thing. You want to improve every aspect of your game. But sometimes it's not possible to do that without sacrificing other parts of your game. Here's a question for you on the topic of improving and not sacrificing other aspects of your of your game. Nico Horner's power. We've talked about Nico Horner's power since he debuted as a rookie almost 10 years now. We've heard from coaches, players, fans that there's more room for power in Nico's athleticism. Yet we've not seen that translate to like, you know, 15 plus home runs. We've seen him hit 10 home runs, but nothing more than that. Now there's some bias when you watch these spring training videos. And it's always hard to tell for sure what's going on

51:23because it's just, you know, live BP and, you know, underhand soft toss. But some folks do think Nico looks a little different in the batting mechanics. And I've always pushed back that Nico had a room for power because if you start looking at his swing angle, you start looking at overall his swing path. He clusters with the Luis Raya's guys, the Stephen Kwan guys, and those players don't hit home runs. So unless Nico changes his mechanics and bat path, I would not think he would, he would hit for 15 plus home runs. But I do wonder if we see a little bit of a change in that swing path. And if you're personally comfortable with him experimenting with that knowing what you saw from last year, I mean, I trust Nico a lot. I think he's got a very sound under, you know, he's one of those guys that understands the game very well. He understands who he is as a hitter, what his strengths are. And, you know, like just kind of what his role is at the plate. I am certainly hesitant.

52:28I'm asking him to make changes. Like, look, if he believes that he can tap into something, I'm guessing that what he'd like to be doing is hitting line drives into the left center basket, basically, not all the time. But like, you know, I don't think he's envisioning himself hitting, you know, moonshots onto Wavelin. I think he's got a specific probably vision for how he can hit some more home runs. The only concern I have is I like, I find myself muttering this to myself at the games when he does this, when he hits like soft fly ball. I mutter to myself, that's not your game, Nico. It's not your game. I must have like 10 texts of you saying that exact phrase. Yeah. And so again, like, that's not what he's trying to do, hitting the ball so much in the air, but more on a line that carries into, you know, the riggly fee of bleachers. But that, that would be my trepidation there is that, you know, he's not a guy that has tremendous

53:31power. Whether there's more to one lock, I mean, sure, I think, you know, that it sometimes is the case with a lot of guys. But, you know, we know he's not a guy that has 80 raw power that is somehow just not being tapped into. And so I think the risk you run into is you try to do that, but maybe, you know, enough of them, you just don't have that power to get there, especially with the way Rigglyfield can play someday. But the bigger, like, the bigger, again, I trust him a lot. And the way that he would want to evolve his game, I would be very surprised to see him try to do that. And like sacrifice, how valuable a hitter he is. I think if he were doing it, he'd really believe and understand the methodology of how he would be improving that. But really, where, like, the, again, I hate you, the word concern sounds too strong sometimes. But the thing that jumps out, Brendan, like, he was a five win player last year, 297 3405, 394,

54:34a 109 WRC plus 4.8 wins above replacement. I got no issue with that. Like, he's an excellent, excellent player. And on a team of guys at times, especially last year, where we were begging people to just make more contact and put together more solid played appearances and attack good pitching. And, you know, cut down on the strikeouts, etc. I don't need Nico Horner to do anything differently. If he believes and the coaching staff believes that there's a way to unlock and even greater Nico Horner, I trust them to give it a shot. But he's just the type of player. I mean, he's so good. I don't need him to do anything different other than just be himself. If they want to give it a shot, though, like, you know, be my guest. He did finish the year at seven home runs. I think that may get lost because the second half years in a row. That's right. The second half is specifically the last six weeks of the season. The power did emerge. Now, I was depressed during the playoffs

55:38in Milwaukee, but he hit a home run in Milwaukee, didn't he? In the playoffs, when we were losing, I'm pretty sure he did. I do not remember. I was in a dark place. I don't know. My brain ceases the function. But I'm like, barely sure you know, home run when the cops were losing in Milwaukee. But the point being is the power of this RT emerged a little bit. And I think about, I wonder there's something like trends in like the data or the swing path that lends to that. But I do wonder if some of those like late season changes. If he were making that with a mechanically or played approach driven, if that carries over and that 10 home runs we saw from what 2023 that comes back. And I think a real estate expectation is if he does leverage some of the late season changes he made 10 to 12 home runs is absolutely feasible. If that happens with the contact profile, he maintained last year and the defense, he always maintains well, the extra five home runs

56:43could make him nearly a five and a half six win player. Yeah. Entering your free agent here. Yeah, I mean, look, that's the other thing too. Like, you know, this isn't a three you wouldn't gain five. I knew he wouldn't gain five. That's why I was so depressed. Yes. You know, the thing with him too is like, you know, you're not talking about a 35 year old like one dimensional player. Like, this is a 28 year old player who has shown a lot and succeeded a lot at this level. And he's grown in in his career. And, you know, I don't think that this is the discussion of like, oh, can he unlock at 25 home or potential? But, you know, just upping those totals and slugging a little bit more, I, I, I wouldn't bet against him, Brendan. I think it's just a fair place to start the conversation saying, like, listen, man, like he's phenomenal. Like, I'm not of all the players that are making adjustments and, you know, needing to prove something against, you know, a different hand in this, a picture or add this to their game or cut out this from their game.

57:44Nico's just not one of those guys that I look at. If he wants to become a six win player, I'd be thrilled about it. And I hope the Cubs give them the money for it. Hopefully, they lock him up in an extension before he starts hitting 15 homeers a year. He's going to be a lot more expensive. But yeah, like I look at him and I go, I, of all the people I'm worried about or complaining about or needing them to do more. It's not Nico corner. Yeah. I got 10 seconds from my last up before he signed off. So I got the flu over here. My ideal spring training is a Nico extension, a peak crow arm strong extension. Wow. And Shaw looking good at right field. If those three happen, I'm interested in healthy. Everyone else. That's an assumption. Of course, everyone's staying healthy as well. Yeah, look, Tom Rickets talked. I think earlier this week and said the big priority for the family was to win more World Series championships. So I think some of those steps, especially locking up Nico corner long term,

58:44keeping PCA in the fold as long as you can. Those are good steps to get there, Tom. So we can start there and, you know, we'll keep building from there. But spring training starts on Friday, enjoy it. And, you know, soon enough, it'll be time to get the regular season underway. So the CHO crew will have you covered all through spring training and into the regular season. Don't forget to tune in to Luke and Joey throughout the week. Brennan and I appreciate your support. We'll be back with you next Thursday. And as always, go Cubs.