Carter Jensen and Bobby Witt Jr. Still Putting Up Big Numbers!

0:00football is back and this is believe you're home for NFL and college football news and analysis all season long. Now let's start the show. That's right people. It's time for the Copman corner podcast David Leskey, Seren Petro with you talking some Royals baseball as the NFL week one gets going. Yes, two more weeks. That's all we've got of Royals baseball. Noah Cameron Dazzles again today. We'll talk about that Carter Jensen tied the rookie home run record of the weekend in Boston, Bobby Whit, hit 40 stolen bases, some numbers. What do they all mean for these individuals and for the Royals moving forward? How about building a bullpen? Is it as tough as they make it look Seth Lugo? Did he figure something out with his performance on Friday? Quads and he's up one nothing in the championship series of high A ball. Come on people. We've got postseason baseball to talk about. We're doing it right here right now in the Kaufman corner podcast. You're listening to the Kaufman corner podcast. The most

1:01in-depth analysis of the Kansas City Royals breaking down the Royals like no one else can. Kaufman corner is hosted by David Leskey and Seren Petro. David Leskey is an accomplished author and the publisher of the Inside the Crown Royals baseball newsletter. Seren is the award winning afternoon drive host of the program on sports radio 810 WHB in Kansas City. Kaufman corner is proudly brought to you by Gann Asphalt in concrete. Kansas City's nationally recognized full service, paving and pavement maintenance contractor, making parking lot problems disappear in Kansas City since 1994. Three consultations, no commissions, in-house crews, and every project comes with a written warranty. Find them online at GannAsphalt.com or call 816-484-3338. Gann Asphalt in concrete, one contractor, all things parking lot. Now, here are your hosts, David

2:01Leskey and Seren Petro. Thank you very much Curtis. We do appreciate it. Two weeks of baseball is all we've got left. David Leskey, the Royals, up in Boston, doing what they do. Right? Doing what they do. Any thoughts on this series in Boston? They think special? No, it was, this was, you know, I thought that they didn't play poorly. They just were the second best team out of two. And I think that that's kind of where they are at this point. And that's, I don't want to say it's okay, but what are we going to do? I think it's just, it is what it is. And the Red Sox were a bad team early in the year. They found a second year. They really pitch. I mean, I, I, I follow baseball

3:01obviously. And, but like, I, I, I, I, I, I, I felt the need to qualify that. I want to say, I, I have watch baseball. This is, this is not the first time I watch baseball this weekend. Second or third probably. But I hadn't, I don't know that I have necessarily like, weirdly enough to watch a lot of Red Sox games. They really pitch. That's a good, that is a really good pitching staff. And, you know, they, they, they, they dominated the Royals. I thought, and the Royals got to, to get a win. I think that might be impressive because that, that, that is a clearly better team on the other side of the field. Yeah. And it's funny because if you remember when Boston came to Kansas City, I think the Royals might even have been a half game up on the Red Sox or a game. That was both of our series when we were like, nope, we're done. We were like, nope, we're done. We're out. Yeah. That was just that team they're done. Yeah. And it was, you know, little that we know back then, the Red Sox were actually going to be in a good team. And so it doesn't look as bad as it did. You know, it definitely doesn't look as bad as it did then. But, you know, the, the point was

4:01just where they mathematically gone to. And, you know, was there a world where this team had the kind of revitalization that Boston did or is Boston just fundamentally that much better on paper? I think if they're, the, the differences that they, you know, they don't have their gear at crochet, obviously, but like Boston did it because their pitching was good enough. We talked about it. Can the royals go on a Red Sox run? No, they don't have the pitching to do it. It's as simple as that. If, and this is if, if, if, if, if, if, but if Cole Reagan's his healthy and pitching well and Chris Boob which is healthy and pitching well, I think it's possible. But without that, you're, you're running out a bunch of number three starters at best. And, and the Red Sox are running out sunny gray and Peyton Toli and I'm going to miss somebody. But, you know, all their, all their strong charters and their bullpen is incredible. And the royals bullpen is decidedly not like all, a lot of the things that you need that the recipe to make a crazy run involves having elite pitching. I think I don't think you can do it with a great offense and mediocre pitching. I think you have to do it with great pitching and at least a mediocre offense. And the royals just didn't have that

5:01recipe. And I think that's what I think about the way I'm doing it. I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's why they were just not able to do it. I'm not going to say they would have been able to do it. If they had Reagan's and BOOM at either. But, they definitely couldn't without those two. Noah Camarin took the mound today with a 396 ERA. He has another outstanding performance, six innings, 4 hits one run, one walk, four you know, the R.A. now at 384. And I know we did on the program on A10, like what do we think his ERA would end up at? And I think the numbers are like 455. And like, you know, it was up there. He has had a remarkable turnaround. And I just think, you know, we don't, I've spent, we've talked about him a lot this year, but just amazing how good he's been.

6:01And so frustrating that they don't put more runs up around him, but you know, this, this continues to be like, like if you look for the silver lining, it's Jack Caglione Carter, Jensen, Bobby Witt, Noah Cameron. It's, it's good young talent. I'm gonna take what some of the other young talent down in the minor leagues a little bit later on, but it's, you're starting to see some guys that, you know, are turning the corner, and you can see the foundation of a good squad and having a guy that you control for five more years. And it seems to, you know, and, and, and I love the fact that he had problems this year. And worked through it because that's what good pictures do. Nobody's great all the time, but you go in, you'd get a look at what you're doing, you figure it out, you tinker with it, and you, you fix it. And the fact that he was able to do that, I just think this has been one of the, I mean, he, you know, he didn't get enough credit for the year he had in the, in the rookie of the year voting because he wasn't a big prospect and in all those kind of things. And people are like, well, he's not gonna end up being a Hall of Famer. He's just a good picture.

7:02And so a sub three R.A. from a rookie picture that pitches almost a whole year. I mean, he didn't get near the credit, he deserved for that. And I think again, he's, he's still at that point, right? Like he's still not getting the credit that he deserves and he was great today. Yeah, I agree. I will say and maybe disagree with this. I am more impressed by this season than last season with this. Yes. Okay. Yeah, I thought you'd probably agree, but, just because like you said, there is adversity. There wasn't really adversity last year. You get a couple, you know, everybody has a bad starter too, but he, it kind of just rolled for him last season. And I think we joke a little bit sometimes like I was an alert bearer who talked about how he wanted to see guys fail. And you were like, why would you say it that way? Say it a different way. Yeah. But it's also true. Like you do wanna see these guys, you don't wanna see them struggle. You love that they don't ever have to deal with adversity, but they're going to. It's major league baseball where failure is the norm and not the exception. And I think for him to, I mean, he was failing.

8:04He was probably ready to go down the triple A if they had any other pitching. They didn't. And so he sat in the rotation. He got, you know, he pitched and pitched his way out of it. And now we're looking at this guy sitting there with 384-HRA, 367-FIP on the season. He's striking out almost as the wrong word, but close to, close to a batter per inning. He's not walking guys. Like his strike out rate has come up. His walk rate has decreased. That's an improvement. He went through a stretch where he was really hitable. That's over. He's clearly not hitable. I mean, and this is, to me, he's turned himself into a guy who pitched at the back of rotation to a guy who pitches in the middle toward the front of a rotation now. And I, we don't wanna be a dead horse here. We talked about this all the time. They need to get somebody better than him. Like if they want to be a world series contender, Noah Cameron can't be your best starter, I don't think. But you win with Noah Cameron.

9:05He is 100% part of a winning rotation. And we've learned that this season because we saw him fight through downs to get to the ups. Well, his FIP is better this year than it was last year. Yeah. You know, he rates better on fan graphs more, I think than Michael Waka does. Does he still? I think you're right. I haven't looked in a little while. I'll pull it up right now just to see. I'm pretty sure that's what it was coming into today. I'm pretty sure was it? Okay, I hadn't looked in a couple of weeks. That's the only reason I, you know, I think, you know, he's, he's one of the great stories this year for this organization. And it's too bad so many other things went south because he is having the kind of, he, right now, like how much confidence would you have in him if you're like, okay, we're, you know, it's the Red Sox and the playoffs, you know, we just saw what he can do against the Boston Red Sox. Yeah, I'm good, right? Like you feel pretty good that he's going to be one of your playoff starters and that's where I'm, you know,

10:07I'm with you that you, they need to get somebody better. I will say this, I, I don't, I would like for them to get somebody better, but they can have five Noah Cameron's and Michael Waka's if you're bad ass out of the back of the bullpen, right? These guys will keep you in the game. And then you got to be, okay, where you've got four guys that are going to throw nothing but zeros if we need to go, you know, we take, we get six out of this guy or five out of this guy in the playoffs because you don't want to see it all a third time through. And now we've got four innings, we got four guys that can be lights out. I think you're fine. I think you can win like that. I do get your point about having somebody better would be great, but I don't know that they're going to pay for somebody better. I don't know if they're going to have the, the payroll of all the other things that they need because I think they've got to find a lot of bullpen and I think the bullpen is going to have to spend more money than what they've been doing. The Alex Langs in the world are a million dollars because he's a million dollar picture, right? And sometimes it works. When I'd have to look, it does work.

11:11I know it does, but I mean, Alex Lang, we talk about roles, right? Like Alex Lang can't be your eighth inning guy for a million dollars. You, you sign three guys for a million and one of them becomes your sixth inning guy and you're fine with it. Like John, John Schreiber is not a bad example of a guy who was perfectly fine. He wasn't signed, but he was acquired for a prospect who wasn't highly rated. He didn't make a ton of money with the royals. I mean, he was finally your arbitration. That's your $3.7 million. I think that he's a good example of a guy who you go get a guy. He kind of a little bit of a throwing a dart. He was more of a sure thing than Alex Lang, but it does, you throw, you try these things out. They do work sometimes. And again, I can't think of one off the top of my head. I know it's happened. I think, yeah. Yeah, okay. Is it, am I here to tell you that no one's ever been signed for a million dollars or down towards the league minimum and ended up returning better investment in that? No, I'm not. But like I don't even like to have those words come out of my mouth

12:14because it, it, it won't, some people will perceive it. And two, I just, as far as being on my watch of the royals and how I talk about it, it's unacceptable to say that this is the, the plan is the needle in the haystack, right? The diamond. Absolutely. Like realistically speaking, you know, it's going to take more than that. So, you know, I mean, I just, I don't want to let them off the hook. I don't want to talk more about the bullpen in a little bit, but I don't want to let them off the hook that, you know, that that's going to be able to do it. But I listen, just to complete the thought on, on Noah Cameron real quick. I mean, I do think that, and we'll take a break. Well, we'll break and we'll, we'll get into Carter, Jensen and Bobby Whip. But I, I, I just think that it is such a great story and such a success. It's too bad that the season is not allowing it to be shown as that, right? I think that's just, yeah, it's a bummer. It's a bummer because I'd love to see him on a bigger stage in October,

13:14even if it's just a wild card game. You know, they, they had to go to, who's the third Houston right now? We won't see him in Houston because he pitched today. But if they had to go to Houston, I would have that short portion left field concerned with everybody. But I would, I would love to see him get to pitch a playoff game against the Astros. But we won't get to see it this year. Maybe next year. Yeah. I, I think I do. I just, you know, the fact that he struggled and then figured it out is, I can't stress how giant that is for this team. So it's worth so much, so much for the future because it's not, not to belabor the point, but it gets, it's, it's one of those things that like sometimes if you don't, you don't even know, can I overcome a bad first? Can I overcome a bad second? Well, yeah, I can overcome a bad first inning because I overcame a bad May or June or whatever. And it's just, it's, some of it's a mental thing. Some of it's like learning how to adjust and every big, every bigly your needs to learn how to adjust to poor performance because they're going to get hit

14:15with it. And it looks like no cameras learned that. Yeah, it does. Carter Jensen is having a year. He is getting things done. In fact, sending records. We can't see roles. We'll talk about it after you hear from our friends again. You're parking lots says a lot about your business. Cracks, potholes, faded striping and damage concrete can create safety concerns and leave the wrong impression with customers. Gann S. Fault and Concrete helps Kansas City businesses protect their properties with asphalt paving, seal coating, crack filling, parking lot striping, concrete work and repairs. Their experience crews deliver quality workmanship and dependable service on every project, whether you need routine maintenance or a complete parking lot overall, Gann is ready to help you. Get started today with a free estimate at gannasphalt.com. Gann S. Fault and Concrete, one contractor, all things parking lots. Italian delight was the first restaurant to bring true New York style pizza to Kansas City almost 50 years ago. They sell whole pies or pizza by the slice or enjoy their classic strong bowlies, cow zones and sausage rolls.

15:15Sandwich lovers check out their lineup of hot and cold subs, the combo, the meatball or the filling cheesecake, just the name of view. And don't forget the pasta, their famous lasagna and classic chicken alfredo always hit the spot. If you're hungry for lunch, check out their daily lunch specials, starting at under 10 bucks. Italian delight can even cater your next work function or party. Dining, carry out or delivery, it's Italian delight. Located just three minutes east of Kansas Speedway at 8145 State Ave in KCK. Check out the menu and order online at ItalianDelight.ks.com. Kansas City's own Italian Delight. All right, let's talk about Carter Jensen, 24th home run that equals the Royal's rookie record from the hammer Bob Hamlin all the way back in 1994. Wasn't a strike for 94 that he did that in. So nice to bring up Bob Hamlin's name. It was a great rookie year on a team that was a lot of fun and went down the toilet because of the strike. It's a funny that we're seeing happen again with a strike looming at the end of the year.

16:17But you know, I know you're working on something for inside the crown about a contract for him. What do you think we're looking at for what you have? What they should put in front of them? I mean, first of all, I would probably do it sooner than later on him because the defense has become so much better that you're going to start to see some war numbers. And that's what teams look at now that are insane. And you know, there's not a lot of actual really young catcher contract extension. I mean, Kiebert Ruiz is one of the youngest at 24. Joe Mauer signed one at 23, but it was four years. I wouldn't probably look at that for Carter Gents and Besayo for the Orioles just signed one for eight and 67. I think it was. But it'll be kind of uncharted territory for a guy. But I mean, you start to look at the arbitration numbers and it's interesting. I looked at a few catchers. They don't make a ton of money in arbitration, which is surprising to me.

17:20And I wonder if it's, I wonder how much of that is they get it bought out? How many of them have 30 home runs? Well, that that, well, not many of them. You're right. That's a that's a really good point. But I mean, I mean, he's not going to get there this year, but he looks like he's got that kind of pop. No, he, I mean, if he, if you have 24 home runs with, what's it, 13 games to go 12 games to go, you, you have 30 home run power. You have maybe haven't done it. But I mean, I look at some of these guys like, Adley Rutchman, for example, has, he's making a 7.2 million this year. This is our two season in arbitration, 5.5 last year. Well, I don't know why he's going to get to 11 maybe. I mean, it's only like $23 million over the arbitration years, which is far less than a lot of. So are you suggesting that a contract doesn't need to be put in front of him? I guess you could look at it that way. I look at it as you can probably get it done for a really reasonable rate. Get it, get him locked in. And then if you decide, they're not going to do it. So it doesn't matter.

18:21But if you decide, hey, I want to trade this guy because I love Blake Mitchell so much. Again, they're not going to. He's under team. He's under contract and he's very tradable. But I mean, the biggest arb 3 salary I've been able to find for a catcher is JT Real Muto, who made $10 million. That's, and Jensen, they're very different. The way they get their value or way real Muto got to his value is very different from the way Jensen is and will. But I mean, it's not a ton of money in arbitration. So I think that even the world should be able to get this done if Jensen wants to get it done. Yeah, I think it's interesting because a lot of and here, Aiden says five for 60. I mean, that buys you no years into free agency Aiden. So I would go more years than that. You would at least six, if not seven or eight, to try to buy some of those free agent years. He's turned 23 this year.

19:22So, you know, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28 when he's heads out to free agency is what he'll be. So you'd like to get 29 and 30 tucked in there. I don't know where his head is going to be. A lot of times catchers, you know, anybody plays fancy baseball. You chase this guy away at 18 home runs last year and that's his career high. This guy comes around that nobody's heard of and he hits 18 home run jack. This is a new new. Oh, wow. I got 20 home run catcher. Sobby's been unique, right? But Carter Jetson has legit bat to ball skills, legit strike zone judgment and real power that he does look like he's going to be a guy that if he stays behind the plate and you mentioned the defense, why wouldn't you? That he's going to be a guy that's really going to put up, you know, he could be a 20 plus home run guy every year from behind the dish. At some point, I think the legs wear out and that falls off.

20:23You know, so the royals are going to have to decide pretty quick what they're going to do. They're going to put them in a different spot. Is he going to be running around left field? Like what's, you know, maybe that's the bigger question asked you, signing him is like, where are you going to play him? Because behind the dish, he's worked a lot if he's going to hit 25 home runs. Right? Yeah. Left field. Little easier to find that kind of power. Yeah, you talk about like John Buck was the first name I thought of when you said the guy who hits 20 home runs one year and then never does any chase. He hit 18 for the royals and he did hit 28 a couple years later. I just looked it up because I was curious. But you're right. Jensen's a different guy. I mean, I look at catchers who are qualified this season. Well, I'm going to cut it down even to like 300 played appearances. Because it's hard, there's like six qualified catchers. Jensen's third and baseball and wins above replacement on Fang Raffes. He's third and base not as not as a rookie. He's third and baseball among working among all catchers in wins above replacement.

21:28Behind Dylan Dingler who he's really fallen off, but he was getting MVP for a couple weeks. And then Gabriel Moreno, who we just saw with the Diamondbacks, who's having a really nice season. So, Karej Jensen's one of the best catchers in baseball already. And I mean, yeah, you want to talk about the numbers. Even if you say he's, I think the max for arbitration in three years is like 35 to 40 million. And that's if arbitration stays the same, but that's all we know right now is what it is today. So it, you know, you want to do seven years. You're probably looking at seven years 85 million off the top of my head. I haven't done the math yet. And that that actually you're probably not looking at that's probably too much. But I mean, that that's the deal that you you put in front of him. And I think is a guarantee. Yes, from Farge and Cam. But I don't know. Yeah, I think you know, you look at what the 12 consecutive extra base hits. That broke Aaron Judges record. No single today.

22:30Yeah. What's the point? Why? Well, but I mean, I I hear you. But you know, the fact that you he's in a category there and judge like we come up with these different things. You can you can now a stat head and everything. You can put all these parameters in and be like, okay, look at this. He's one of only five guys. Well, who are the other four? But I'll tell you how important that really is. I mean, he broke the record of Aaron Judge, you know, like that is really impressive that, you know, that's the other name that's there. So, you know, I think he's legit. And I think the Royals, you know, he's the next guy that they need to be locking up. They need to be getting these position guys that can really play all locked up. I think that has to be their plan and then turn the burn on the pitching and the way the brewers do it. I think that has to be it. And I think you want to get Carter Jensen signed, you know, his you mentioned with the defense coming around, you know, I know Seth Lugo was talking about him and we all felt like Seth Lugo was annoyed by him earlier this year, right? Like that not challenging, you know, a call or something.

23:30Seth Lugo was throwing a lot of props his way after his performance on Friday. So, I mean, I do think that there's been a maturation this year. And I don't know what is it like, you always feel like guys, if they have defense, defense should always travel. You know, that's the mindset of like sports as a defense travels. Well, we've watched Bobby Whit come up, be told that he's a great defender, really struggled short. Is this a Royals thing or is this an everybody thing that defense is harder for rookies? But, you know, he's getting it together in his rookie season. So, who does the question? I don't know if it is a Royals thing or not. That's one of those things that it's a good question. Do we just watch the Royals too much to not realize that every other team does it or happens to every other team? And the answer is probably, I don't think the Royals are as much as people want to believe this. I don't think the Royals are doing anything drastically different from other organizations in the way they develop talent. I'm clearly in some ways it's worse in some ways it's better. But I don't think they're taking away gloves or anything in low A

24:34and making it play with the milk cartons. Yeah, I don't know. But yeah, it's similar to Cameron. It's very impressive to see. And we talked about this with the bat too with slumps and coming out of them and all that. But it's very impressive to see him hone his craft. I also think we need to send some props to Paul Hoover. He is a phenomenal catching coach. And the bad season for the Royals is probably going to keep him in Kansas City for at least another year because I, we talked about this I think last year. There was some like very light manager buzz around him after last season and didn't happen. I, somebody told me that he got offered an interview that he turned down. I don't know if it's true or not. But one interview out of eight openings, whatever. I think there would have been huge buzz this year. There still might be. But he is a big benefit to this Royals team. Yeah, now I get to a great point. And Bobby would junior stole his 40th base. He's the fifth Royal in history to have multiple 40 stolen base seasons.

25:37You know who the other ones are? Let's see. It's not Beltron. Is it? Nope. He only had one. Will he, will he Wilson for sure? Will he Wilson had seven of them? I feel like Tom Goodwin probably did. Tom Goodwin had two. Let's see. He said there's four others. Yeah, so there's two others. Two you haven't got. Bobby's got two. There's another guy who had two and there's another guy who had three. Guy who had three. Will he, did Johnny Dame into it? Johnny Deeming did not. Did he do 41s though? I think so. He did. I mean, when he led the league in soul bases, I think he was over 40. Yeah. All right, give me, give me an, give me an era. Yeah. The 2010s to the 2020s. Oh, did Mariffield do it? What Mariffield did it twice? Wow. Okay. The others, the 70s. Who am I missing? The name is, the name is Hodicin Get 40 plus. I know I'm, it's, you're going to say, oh, is it Freddie? Freddie Pottec.

26:37Yeah. Freddie Pottec at three. Love Freddie. Anytime we can get Freddie Pottec. Oh, Freddie. I'm here. I'm a happy. I don't know. I think Freddie first. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but that's, that's impressive company. I mean, to have the full soul bases. And I know any Rogers wrote about it that, you know, if you can get to 20 homers, there have only been two 20 40 years in Royals history. Carl Spelchron had it and Bobby had it two years ago. He'd be the first one to have two 20 40s. So something to shoot for there with him. But I mean, like, you know, the 40s stolen bases. And I think what's, what's impressive about the 40s stolen bases this year is how much better he's been in the and not getting caught. You know, two years really. Yeah. I mean, it was slow. He talked about it in spring training last year. Then was still getting caught and tell about, you know, maybe a third of the way through the year, then it started to really kick in. But this year he's become great. I mean, you know, it's and and that's I think the key because I don't think the Royals want. And I'll be honest with you, like, is he going to have another 40 stolen base

27:39year? Well, geez, I hope so. As a guy who's got him on a multi-year deal. My fantasy team, I'd like to see him do that again next year. But I don't think the Royals probably want him running. And I would be curious if the how much the wear and tear of the steals has been dragging down his power. Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know that answer. He's just so fast that like at some point, yeah, you might say, look, you're you're more valuable doing this. But that I'd have to look at each stolen base. I wonder I wonder how often he's stealing when the offense is struggling versus when they're clicking, right? Like, like, I have to go back and we I mean, we all know the stretches where they're scoring six runs every night. And they they've been a few of them this year. Is he running in those games or is it more like this series in Boston where they're they're having a really hard time pushing runs across or I guess the series against the time back to they had a tough time. I wonder I'd have to go back and look at the how how they're split out and and see, okay,

28:40is this is this his way of creating runs when the offense isn't doing it? I don't know, which it's a great tool to have to be able to just turn it on whenever you want. And I think that's what the royals, I think you're right. I think that's what they'd prefer is, hey, if we are scoring runs, just be fast. If we're not, take it upon yourself until but but otherwise, let's let some guys drive you home and see how it goes. Yeah, I have to look at that. I don't know. Yeah, I think it'll be, you know, he's he's impressive to say the least when he's out there, I think they need to it needs to become. You know, listen, as long as he's healthy, like I was worried when he had the back and the knee, and I think at some point that's going to start to be a part of it is if he's healthy and he can run great, but it needs to be take the bases that really matter. You know, we're down one, get into scoring position, you know, like that kind of thing is what needs to be. And I think maybe the stolen bases will naturally come down if they can find more guys that can hit.

29:43And you know, he's he's not happened to feel like he's got to take a base because my God, I've got to get home on a sack fly. There's our only chance of scoring a run here. So I think that'll be part of it as well. Let's talk a little bit about, you know, building the bullpen. We mentioned the bullpen a little bit earlier. How many guys do you think right now? What's your feeling going into the last two weeks on how many guys should be a part of? Should not will should be a part of the bullpen next year. All right, I'm going to pull it up right now. I'll read off the names. I'll give you my thoughts. Stephen Cruz, Nate Pearson, Craig Kimberl, Alex Lang, Connor Thomas, Anthony Ghost, Jose Quas, Nolan Hoffman, and Eastern McGee. Um, Cruz, yes, Pearson, yes. Thomas, maybe, Quas, maybe Hoffman, maybe. That's where I am. So I am I am Pearson Cruz Lynch. I'm going to bring. I'm going to pull it.

30:43Oh, okay. Lynch is a yes. I forgot about him. I have a picture of the roster resource page yet. Yeah. Pearson, Cruz, Lynch and Quas. I do like Quas' funkiness. And I think he's going to keep refining. And I think he's going to be a good mix. And I think that's it. And then I made a note for Lewin DeRavila and Cole Reagan's coming back for Lewin DeRavila and Cole Reagan's. Yeah, but he won't be back. I will. I won't be back next year. Yeah. I would guess you don't think he would be back at the very end. You don't think he'd be back really. August Tommy John. So that's 14 months would be early October. Okay. It's it's possible. I wouldn't count on it. Him and Cole like both were the same day. August 5th, I think same day. So I will say this that both of them are that, uh, Avila that needs to be the plan. That needs to be what happens. Yes. And and don't do you think Cole Reagan's as part of it as well? I would argue that Cole Reagan needs to be the plan too. Honestly, although we can get into this in the off season more. But, um, there is an argument to be made that, hey,

31:47if he's fixed up, this is as healthy as Cole Reagan's will be, get the innings and go. So maybe that is a, if he's actually healthy, put him in the rotation and let him blow out when he blows out because you know, you know that he can be a top tier starter. And if he's actually fully healthy for a year and a half, let it eat. You know, what do you think there's any chance he's going to come back being as good as he was a couple of years ago? Like I assume we're getting a lesser version of him when he comes out. Any chance? Yeah. Um, I mean, I wouldn't bet on it. But yeah, I I'm with you. I think that I would, I would put him in the bullpen. I just think there is, there is a world where they look at it and they go, look, his arm is going to blow out again. We're going to take what we can get out of him while we can get it because it's sort of like the post Tommy John, that injury halo where you've got four or five years before you have a real risk again. Like maybe that's, I don't know, this is a different surgery. This is the brace, the internal brace that he did. It's not the Tommy John surgery. So I don't know if it has that same like buffer period.

32:49But if it does, there might be that argument that hey, you stick him in the rotation and you just, you'd let him go until he until he arm burns out and then you don't worry about it because he's a free agent. Um, but I, I agree. I think, I think, I think yes, you look in a, I think, I think best case scenario for Cole Reagan's best case scenario, the most likely scenario is that he is, he joins the bullpen in at mid season at the All-Star break or whatever and helps the bullpen down there. But it won't be until it's a 10 to 12 months. The surgery was early July. I would bet on 12 to 13. I would not bet on 10 based on history. And so you're, you're not looking at that until the All-Star break really at that point. Yeah. I, I am of the opinion, uh, you made the statement about like, uh, they need to get a starter and it needs to be better than know a Cameron. I, I'm adamant that whatever you put with that bullpen, they need two guys that are better than everything that's on there. And we can put, I didn't have Lucas Ersegg on there, but he's going to be part of the equation as well. And he has pitch better down in, in Omaha. So I think he'll be back in the equation,

33:52as well. Um, you know, they got a, they got a, I'm hoping they've got him fixed. What's like the idea that, you know, they need to lose the thought that he's some kind of, you know, fireman that they can just place wherever. Because I'm not sure how much, you know, making him go up against the best of the best every time isn't what's screwed him up. Yeah. I mean, it clearly be right. It worked for a stretch, but it didn't work long-term. And, you know, last seven outings in Omaha, 11 straight out to one walk and eight and a third inning. So they're, they're, it's Omaha. It's AAA, but there's some improvement there. Um, yeah, you're right. He's, he's, he's somebody who I think factors in, Lynch obviously factors in. I, I think that there is, I agree. They need two guys who they don't have. And they don't have it in their system. They don't have it. They need to go get two guys who are not currently Kansas City Royals.

34:53Um, but I think if you, if you push everybody down two spots, I feel pretty good about that open next year. And, and I think there's some depth. One guy I want to mention, and we'll get to Quad Cities here in a little bit of LP Languabin, um, down in Quad Cities, struck out three in ending today. He's found control. Um, I'd be, I'm gonna be curious to see how he moves. The, the reason he hasn't moved up is because he was walking the world. He hasn't, he's walked eight guys in his last like 12 games or, or 16 games or something like that. 20, 27 to eight, right, got to walk ratio in his last 17 innings. I think it is. So, um, they do have some guys coming, but they need to go get two guys for sure. By the way, uh, yeah, we, we'll get to that. We'll get to them in a minute. I don't want to go down that road because we'll get to Quad Cities in a little bit. But, um, you know, they, they paid $11 million for Carl's estimates. Are we going to see him put two $11 million relievers into this bullpen for next year? You know, maybe, um, I tend to think they're going to sign one in trade for one. If,

35:55if they're going to do it with, you know, one guy might make $6 million, um, and maybe it's just part of the bigger deal, but they might have to. And, and I think that the, the, the, the thing that I, I feel confident in is they've been pretty forthcoming about the idea of, hey, we have to fix this bullpen. There is no, there's no choice. It's not we'd like to get another reliever. No, they know they have to fix the bullpen. And I, I hope that they don't think that means supplement, Pearson and Cruz. I hope that they think that means that Pearson and Cruz supplement who they bring in. Um, but I think they're going to have to get at least one guy who makes eight figures. If not two, don't you? I mean, I don't think there's any way to do it otherwise. Um, yeah, I, I, I, and that's why I like, are they going to go out and trade prospects for like, this is the thing is like, because I think this is tricky. I don't relievers blow out. Pitchers blow out relievers really blow out. You know, it's why I'm, I'm, I, I, I, I didn't really

36:59get it at the time. I mean, I just assumed Jonathan Bolins sucked. They, they're like, this guy is no good. And this year for Philadelphia, three 2070 R.A. 55 innings 42 hits 14 walks 69 strikeouts, a one, oh, one eight whip. You know, I, the match's wrong deal is horrific. It's a terrible deal. And I was like, are you be the worst deal that they have made? Absolutely. The worst deal they've made. What would be worse? What? Seth Lugo, Belugo signing. And trade wise, though, the work. Yeah. Yeah. I's your Sam. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I'm with you. I mean, like, and so to me, your bullpen needs to be coming from within your organization. And that's where they've got to get to you. You, you've got, and the two things have to be at work. One, you have to have a plethora of guys that have power stuff. But you've also got to be developing starters that push the, the failed starters into the bullpen.

38:00I mean, that that's part of the reason I give Luke. Coach Aver that anybody else could start Luke. Coach Aver would have five or six years as a really good reliever. Steady at a couple because they kept trying to start them because they didn't have anybody else. So I mean, the, you know, having a deep bullpen partially comes from being good at developing starting pitching. Yeah. You're right. I mean, it's, they, they need to, they ain't a, you're right. They need to find guys from within and then you know, the way, the way the game has changed now is teams do develop relievers. And so it's not just that, but you're right. They do need to have eight starters where two of them go to the bullpen. And, and, you know, I like, like Michael Lombardi, for example, who's, who's spent the entire season in Columbia in LA, he had a 32% strikeout rate with a 13% walk rate. He's a starter. He's going to be a reliever in the big leagues. Like it's just where he's going to be. And I'm fine with him keeping him as a

39:02starter, but like big guys start advancing those guys quicker. And, you know, I, they, they need to find those guys from within one guy. I just, I was looking at a list. We forgot back way. I don't know if he'll get you back. You forgot back way. I didn't forget back way. I didn't put him on the list. I didn't put him on. You don't think he has any chance to be in the bullpen next year. Oh, I think I said, again, the list was who should, but you know, I don't think there's any that's going to be in the pen. I don't think they're going to get go get four good top shelf guys. I don't. I think you're going to see a lot of this riff rap back in there. But you don't think there's there's a there's a reasoning that's that's beyond we have to have somebody to put a guy with a sub four year a and a two to one strike out to walk ratio who throws 97 in the bullpen. I, I, you know, I'm looking at his numbers now. I mean, yeah, but you're you're talking about minor leak numbers, right? No, major league numbers, major league numbers, 23 and a third innings. He

40:05struck out. Twenty one, 27 hits, 10 walks. Yeah, I two to one strike out to, it's not. No, I don't, I don't see it. I don't see 21 days and 10 walks and 23 innings. You don't think he's the seventh reliever in an eight man staff, potentially with 97 and the stuff he has. Okay. No, with a with a with a whip of 1.6. No, it's too many base runners. I mean, could he be? Yeah, I mean, I suppose if they can refine it, but I mean, do you, I mean, are you, would you put your money on that he's going to be that kind of guy? I six minor league seasons of 537 ERA. Let me put it in for three. Oh, if they have, I'm going to put around number if they have $50 million to spend and they have a choice of going out and getting a guy who can pitch 65 innings or a guy who can throw who can hit 35 home runs, backway can pitch the fifth inning every third day. Well, I think he's probably going to.

41:09Yeah, I'm just saying I don't think he should. Okay. I think you should be able to have better. I think I think he's, I'll say this, I think he's actually quite good as depth. If he is your 12th 11th reliever, I think your bullpen is probably really good. Yeah, that's because he's got options too. I'll take that if he's down at Omaha break class in case of emergency find. But like, hey, this is what we're setting sail with. This is one of our guys. No, that's where I sit on it. Okay, but I digress. Seth Lugo had a fine performance. We want to talk about that. Quad cities. I'll play him for a championship. We'll do it after you're here from our friends in Italian delight. Italian delight was the first restaurant to bring true New York style pizza to Kansas City almost 50 years ago. They sell whole pies or pizza by the slice or enjoy their classic strong bowl. It's cow's own and sausage rolls sandwich lovers. Check out their lineup of hot and cold subs. The combo. The meatball or the filly G state just name a few and don't forget the pasta. They're famous lasagna and classic chicken Alfredo always hit the spot. If you're hungry for lunch,

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43:13All right, let's talk about Seth Lugo on Friday, five innings, seven hits, two runs, two walks, seven K's. Love the seven K's and five innings like the two runs, but still mind-based runners and five innings. That's too much traffic on the basis. Is he figuring something out or is it just managed to dodge the usual and this would have been four or five runs and that baseball happens. Maybe he managed to strand a few guys. It's probably somewhere in between. I tend to lean more toward the baseball happened. There are a few, one thing. He was far less right in the middle of the plate. His, I thought his command was considerably better on Friday than it had been. We've talked about this. The stuff has backed up so much that you've got to have elite command and the command has also backed up and that's been the problem because not control. Control is not really the issue, but he's putting too many pitches in the middle of the plate. He didn't do that as much on Friday. I think that because of that, it led to some more chase. He had 33%

44:18chase rate on Friday night. It led to some uglier swings. They only hit five of 15 badden balls hard in the game, which he'd been getting hit pretty hard over his last few starts. I think that there is a potential that this command, he honed in on it. I can't believe it until it's more than one start. To be completely honest, I'm not sure that it'll have enough starts left for me to believe it because it's going to take more than two or three where he locates the ball well because, I mean, he's not a dumb pitcher. He's a smart pitcher. He's able to, I'm sure, I have no, I never had a doubt that he was capable of two or three really good starts. It's possible. I don't know if there's anything he can do that will make me buy it, but I do appreciate. You look at some of those pitch charts in previous starts and it's just concentrated in the middle of the plate and there's nothing on the edges. You look at the pitch chart from Friday night and

45:21he's dotting the corners in a way that he hadn't done in months, weeks, months, whatever. And so I do appreciate that. I'm skeptical though. So yeah, I don't, I want to believe that it is, but I'm just like too many bass runners, right? Like that's that this is just baseball happens. Is my view of it. And so it's great that they, you know, got to win and and all that kind of thing. But no, I think if you're making $20 million, they more than five innings from you too. I don't have that. I mean, I think they got them out because they're trying to build the confidence and they knew that it's not really that good. I know, I know, I know, I know you agree. I'm not saying you didn't get that part of it. I know you do, but I just, and that's why I think next year he's going to go out. I think you're looking at, I think Lugo may be released next year. I, he has in my opinion, you, you start to look at who's coming back and who's coming through the

46:21system. They're, they're still going to be no matter what they do, they're going to be a little short handed, no matter how much depth they try to bring in. They're going to be a little short handed. But you start to see like Ryan Berger and Cole, like Ryan Berger and Cole Reagan's, for example, should be early July. That's two options. You start to see guys, Justin Lumpkin starts to progress through the system and they won't all do it, obviously, but there are Hunter Owen is a guy who, I mean, I don't know if he'll keep it up, but he had like five really good starts in AA before he got a promotion of AAA for the last couple weeks of the season. There are, there are pictures who are going to start to work their way healthy or toward the big leagues. I think Seth Lugo has three months. And if he hasn't turned it around, he may be gone by July 1st. Yeah. If somebody is ready to step in and, right, yeah, they need to have, they'll have to have somebody take his place. But I think it's very possible that they, they start to get injured guys back and start to promote those prospects who are, are the bridges draft guys and he, he might be looking for a job by,

47:22by the all star break. Quad Cities won their division series two games to none. They won the first game of the championship series today, four to nothing. By the way, in game two of that divisional series, Kendrick Churrio, four and a third, two hits, no runs, two walks, six strikeouts, he was dominant there. You mentioned Austin Charles didn't have a good day today, but in the divisional series, overall four for eight with a homer run six RBI's for him. And they're, they're playing Dayton after the championship and up one oh, they need one more winning. They'll have David Shield starting in, in, in, in what could be the clincher, right? Like what's the value in winning a league championship at high A? I think winning is huge for development. Um, you know, it's, it's the whole winning is better than losing. Yes, but I, I think playing these championship environments and these atmospheres is huge because nothing will, nothing replays the Bayley playoffs. Like it, it just doesn't, but they're still, there's pressure. And this is, it's a different

48:25pressure than we're sending you out on a Wednesday night in a stadium with 4,200 people, maybe if that. And, and we're watching you pitch, we want you to throw your change up 31 times. Like there is a difference between, but between that and a championship game. And, and yes, they're still careful. Like Churrio, you mentioned four and a third andnings. He also had a third and third and more than three in like a month. And I think that the, I think the Royal's organization said, look, we see the value of pitching in a championship series and playoffs series. So we're going to extend you a little bit more than we had. And I think they, they prepared for that. I think that was part of the, the plan with three innings. Yeah, David Shields on Tuesday. I think it's huge. I think it's huge to have that experience. Again, it doesn't get you ready for going to Yankee Stadium in October. But I mean, there's only so much you can, you can do to get ready for that. It's, it, to me, it's massive for the, for the organization. And I think the Royal's probably put a little too much emphasis on that with the, with the 20, 11 prospect crew. Although I say that and they

49:30won a World Series. So maybe they didn't. Maybe it actually was really important. But I, I think it's important. Yeah. I think so. I think there's something to be said for, you know, getting used to winning, right? Getting that winning feeling. I mean, I think they'd be just like losing can become a habit. I think winning becomes a habit. And I think that's what they're, they're figuring out. And, and you mentioned, you know, Langvin. Is that how he's, you say it? I think it's Langvian. Yeah. Langvian. I mean, he closed out the game with one innings, three strikeouts, all zeroes in front of it. If you have not seen this guy's, you know, minor league line in his minor league career, 76 and two thirds, just 42 hits allowed 61 walks. Again, in 76 and two thirds, 137 strikeouts. I mean, if he can be pretty good at not walking guys, he would seem to be electric. Now,

50:35I will point out that he is in high A ball and he is now how old? 23 years old. 23. He's 24 draft pick. Yeah. Yeah. He's 20. He's 23 years old. So he's getting old for that level. But it's because they want him to throw strikes there. And I value the fact, I appreciate the fact that they're not just advancing him and say, well, we'll figure it out somewhere along the way. I always forget who was the kid who threw hard was going to be a starter than they ended up making him a reliever. And he got here and he got to the Big Lee club, but he never really did figure out the strike zone and all he had was the fastball. And they're always wanting him to throw that that doesn't narrow it down. Yeah, I know. I forget maybe somebody in the in the comments. You're not talking about Kyle Zimmer, are you? No, but it was in that era. Yeah. I forget the kid's name. Anyway, he need through like 98 or something. And great. And just love this fastball. Oh, um, oh, my God, he's through he threw that one pitch in 2020 that was down the middle. They called

51:39a ball. Um, Stomach. Yes, Josh Stomach. Exactly. That's exactly what I was talking about. I just kept promoting Josh Stomach, even though he wasn't throwing strikes. Yeah. And I know that was like one of the things like when the Minnesota twins were good, when they were going all the time, you know, they, they go into the playoffs all the time. They would not, I remember talking to Terry Ryan, right? That was their GM, right? Because we went up there, we broadcast from the Metro dome one time and we got him to come sit down with this. And he's like, I said, you know, your pitchers, I mean, they're all, they all have great control. What are these? We will not advance you if you don't throw strikes. And we are like, whoa, what a novel concept. Yeah. Like this is what we want strike throwers. So you're not moving up unless you throw strikes. Right. You know, let me, let me give you a quick LP, laying you an update though real quick on the strikes. He, and this is, I have to piece this together. No walks today and ending in three. I even looked at you and looking at it as he figured it out.

52:39He, so baseball reference doesn't actually, oh, no, it does have, it does have the last playoff game. Okay. Okay. Yeah, including today, 16 strikeouts. His last eight innings, 16 strikeouts, zero walks, three hits. Good Lord. It's eight innings. And he's 23 and high. And he's 20, but he's pitching in the playoffs. But he's got five strikeouts and no walks in the playoffs. Yeah, but he's 18 Ks per nine in that stretch. Yeah. I mean, so he is, yeah, like, if he's got to figure it out, then he's going to be a fun guy. It's interesting. You know, not to do rail, but I was talking to somebody in the organization. Can't remember what it was. It was, it was like late July. And, and he goes, he said, Hunter Owen is about to turn it on. And I mentioned him earlier. And I was like, okay, whatever, Hunter Owen, I liked him as a draft pick. And it's just been bad. Like he had an eight plus ERA at that point. And I wrote it down. And I forgot that I wrote it down because it was so stupid to me.

53:46And it was, it, from August 4th to September 2nd in double A, 164 ERA, 53 strikeouts, 16 walks in 33 innings. And it's like, and so you start to think about it. And it, some of these guys, especially these minor league pitchers, like sometimes it just clicks. And you don't know when it's going to. Apparently he knew it was going to, which we could for them to, to know bad on me to ignore it. And he's, he's struck out four and walked one in three innings in Omaha. Since he's been up as a reliever, he might be, he might be a lefty reliever in the bullpen next year for what it's worth. But it's so interesting to me. And this is, again, probably another offseason topic. But the way that some of these minor leagueers just click out of nowhere, that seemingly out of nowhere, because you know they're spending every waking minute working on something. And then it just one day it just works. Yeah. And there's not off. There's not always a buildup. It's just, sometimes it just happens out of nowhere. Yeah. But I think, you know, we've talked about where

54:50the talent is, like for people that are like, oh, you know, what have they done the draft like, oh, they've done well. It's just all down in A ball. I think the winning. And the fact that they win the championship, it does validate that this group of the guys that they have brought in are affecting change, right? They are, they are looking like they're going to be impact, you know, like they know what they're doing. And as that makes its way up, next year, they should be in double A, right? And the year after that, they should be in triple A. And then the year after that, you should be in a big leagues. And there should be some of them that, that should pass that faster. But I'm just saying the whole group of you go year by year, that's where they should be stopping. And then there should be some more that are like Jack Haggley owned that somebody that comes rocketing past a bunch of them. You know, it'll have, but we are about, you know, we're, I think we're a year, you know, we're talking about spring training of 28. I think we're going to start being like, the system is stocked. They're getting help from the system in the big leagues. This is what, this is the vision for what this club is supposed to be. Yeah. I think that's about right. And then I think by, you know, theoretically, if it all

55:55works, you're starting to see that churn every year, 29 and 30. And, and it gets, you know, I was talking to somebody, when do the royals get that the royals have to sign Jack Haggley owned, because when's the last time they had a guy like him? Well, it's 2022, Bobby Whit. Yeah. And by the way, they have credit gents in this year. So now it's three and in five years. If they get a guy every other year, they sign my co-grec. He's not around. He's out of sight out of line. But, you know, he was a all-star last year. And he came up in 23 for the, well, he came up in 22, I guess, technically. But really came up in 23. And yeah, all-star MVP votes last season. I'll still, I'll remind everybody was trending toward that before the hand injury, which, who knows if that electric result, I don't know. But, you know, you, you start, you, they are actually doing it at the big league level. They need to do more of it with pitching, for sure. It's funny. We talk about the pitching being ahead of the hitting, but the hitting is developing. And the pitching isn't there at the big league level. But, yeah, I think we're going to start to see that, that natural,

57:00positive roster churn here in a couple of years. This week, six games, three at Houston, three at Pittsburgh. What do they do? I haven't looked ahead to who Pittsburgh is starting, but I'm going to, I'm just going to say two and four. I said one in five last week and I was way off. So, I think two and four. Did you say one or five or just eight? Did you say one in five? I said one in five because I believed, I thought they were going to win one. I thought they were going to get swept by the time of X. And because I thought that they were just done with the heat. Like legitimately, we're done filling in that heat. I've ever been talking about that. They, they, they, they salvage one and they, they, they did win one in Boston. But I, I'm, I'm curious. I'm going to look ahead. I don't know. Pittsburgh, it looks like has Paul Schien's Bubba Chandler and Antoine Kelly pitching according to roster resource. So not, not the most fun. All those schemes has a minute is good this year. But yeah, I say two and four. Yeah, two and four. That's what it feels like to me as well. Two and four. And then, you know,

58:01we got two weeks of baseball left. Two weeks of baseball. We'll talk about some numbers and things next week here on Copman Corner. I remember you can always support the Copman Corner by supporting our great sponsors, Gain Asphalt and concrete over 30 years. Gain, some Casey businesses, maintain safe professional looking properties, whether you need asphalt, paving, crack sealing, concrete repairs or parking lots, traffic, Gain delivers quality work you can trust visit them online at GainAsphalt.com and get your free estimate right there. Our friends at Italian Delight, the first restaurant to bring true New York style pizza to Kansas City almost 50 years ago. Lunch specials starting at under 10 bucks. They're just three minutes east of Kansas Speedway. In 8145 state of Africa, say hi to Renee and the staff. They're absolutely fantastic. Wonderful food. You can find them online at ItalianDelightKS.com. It's ItalianDelightKS.com. For David Leskey from Inside the Crown, I'm Seren Petro, saying thank you very much for joining us here on the Copman Corner podcast.