Carney claps back at 'unelected' Trump officials

0:00Candidus in Diginestore ay just being told. They're being reclaimed. Journey through the history of words and telling out twisted histories. Drawing the vibrant weekly conversations on UNRESERVE. Uvalonid uko a uni-dunikangit to saksaunikuvenit inuid unikangit di-gutu-saksa-okatta lamyun. Plus, experience investigations that refuse to be forgotten. Like Cooper Island and Missing and Murdered. Listen to the full collection now. Wherever you get your podcast. The US is threatening to pivot away from Canadian energy as the trade war escalates.

1:10They reach a new deal to have majority control over Venezuela's oil reserves. I think it's just an amazing testament to what a smart foreign policy could look like and how it feeds back in to good outcomes for the American people. In a social media post, US President Donald Trump said the deal real lines global energy inputs Canada on notice. I'm joined now by the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources. Tim Hodgson, nice to see you, Minister. Thanks for coming on. Nice to be here, JP. So President Trump has effectively taken control of Venezuela's vast oil reserves. And he said on social media, this should put Canada on notice. That suggests the US wants to buy less Canadian oil over time. Is there any risk to the oil patch given a threat like that? You know, I'm not going to comment on deals between the United States and whichever government is in power in Venezuela at a particular point in time. I'm going to focus on what matters to Canada, what matters to Canada is we continue to

2:13diversify the buyers for our conventional and clean energy resources and our critical minerals. That's what we've been doing since day one of the Prime Minister said, plan A from the very beginning has been to diversify our non-US exports. We're in the process of doubling those exports. A big part of that is getting our conventional energy to Canadian tidewater. And that's what we're focused on. You know, we have historically sold our energy to the US, particularly our oil at a discount. When we get it to the West Coast, we sell it at a premium. That's good for Canada and that's what we're focused on right now. Yeah, on that point, Minister, the US is set to receive, they claim, 65 billion barrels of Venezuela oil, which could displace at least some Canadian supply to the US and the refineries there. Is there a new sense of urgency to build the West Coast pipeline and is it fair to say

3:15that federal approval for that project is guaranteed at this point? So what the US is doing now, we can't control what they do and we can't control what contracts they sign with whichever government is in power in Venezuela at a particular time. From day one, from the day the Prime Minister began running to the day we became government. We have been focused on diversifying our economy, on building infrastructure to get our energy and critical minerals, our natural resources to Canadian tidewater so that we could sell those energy and natural resources to all of our partners, all of our trading partners around the world, all of our allies who are asking for it. Everywhere I've gone, India, Japan, Korea, Germany, they all say the same thing. We want to buy Canadian energy.

4:16We view you as a trusted supplier. We view you as someone who develops their resources in the right way, in partnership with First Nations. And most importantly, the US is trusted. They know that when we sign contracts, we don't sign them in pencil. Alberta Premier Daniel Smith is dead set against using our energy as leverage in the trade talks with the United States. But other leaders in that province, including past premieres Jason Kenney and Rachel Nottley, say that export taxes should be on the table as this trade dispute escalates. What do you think Minister, is that a card that the government should play? So what I think is the Prime Minister and Minister of the Blanc leading the conversations are focused on getting the best deal they can for Canadians. They know today we have the very best deal of any country in the world with access to the US markets. And we're going to continue to work when there is an opportunity to get as good a deal

5:21as we can going forward. But we're not going to sacrifice our critical industries. We're not going to sacrifice our French language. And we're not going to sacrifice our sovereignty. We will negotiate the very best way we can. What we're trying to do is, quite frankly, we don't think it's productive to escalate things. We think what we should be doing is de-escalating. And when the United States is prepared to have a constructive conversation when they treat us as a real partner, we will work hard to get to the best deal that we possibly can for Canadians. So you're not keen on the idea of an export tax? I don't want to presuppose what the Prime Minister or Minister of the Blanc will do. What I know is they will get the very best deal they can for Canadians.

6:24And they're not going to negotiate in the media about the cards they have or the thick cards they're going to play. TD Bank has just released a new report saying that Canada could enter what they're calling an investment super cycle, and much of that depends on energy projects getting done. But the economists say that there needs to be some legislative changes to speed things up. The government was considering a one-year timeline for federal reviews for projects. Can we expect legislation on that this fall? So you know since the day we've come into office, we have been focused on raising the competency of the government. And I really want to emphasize this point. Canada was taking too long to approve projects in the past. We layered regulation on top of regulation on top of regulation. We had overlapping regulations with provinces in the federal government.

7:28What we're doing is saying we need to raise the competency of government. We need to get approvals done in a more timely matter. We need to do everything we were doing before in terms of being environmentally responsible. We need to do everything we were doing in terms of consultation with First Nations. But we need to do it better and faster because we're in a different world. As the Prime Minister has said, we are in a rupture. We are in a more volatile and more dangerous world. The way we protect Canadians, the way we protect our sovereignty, the way we protect our economy is we do what we were doing before. But we need to do it better and faster. It's been the focus of this government. From day one, the very first thing the Prime Minister introduced was the Bill Canada Act. Next he focused on eliminating inter-provincial trade barriers. Then we went after overlapping regulation between provinces. So we're now with a one project, one review.

8:31And as you know, we're looking at additional legislation to compress and improve our capabilities. Again, I talk about raising the competency of government to do the right thing quicker. We're focused on continuing to do that. We need to in the situation we're in. The concern of say you're not going fast enough and then you have someone like NDP leader Obelewis who wants you to slow things down. I mean, he has diametrically opposed a fossil fuel development. He says Canada's addicted to oiling gas. He doesn't want to see any more pipelines whatsoever. What do you say to Mr. Lewis? And what would stopping any future oiling gas development do for our economy, especially in the current context when we're dealing with the trade war? I would say to Mr. Lewis, he should talk to our allies. He should talk to our allies who are our trading partners, who are telling us they are desperate for our oil. They are desperate for our LNG.

9:33They have had their oil disrupted from Vladimir Putin. They have had their oil and natural gas cut off from the war in the Middle East. Our allies in Japan, our allies in Korea are running out of energy in that world that we are in when we produce the cleanest LNG in the world. And we've done more to decarbonize our heavy oil than any other country in the world. And our allies are asking for it. And that oil and LNG pays for our daycare. It pays for our health care. It pays for our subsidized post-secondary education. It pays for our $10 a day daycare. It pays for our subsidized school lunch programs. Canadians say, hey, when we do it in the right way and our allies need it, we should be doing that. So I think, quite frankly, Mr. Lewis is out of step with most Canadians.

10:35All right, let's leave it there. Tim Hodgson, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources. Thanks for making time. Makes you see you, minister. Thank you very much, Shippie. We spoke to Minister Hodgson, fresh out of a major electricity announcement in Prince George BC today. Construction is underway for the North Coast Transmission Line Expansion, which is expected to more than double electricity-supplied at BC's North. The project was referred to the major project's office last year for fast-tracking. What this piece does for us is when a mine or when a major employer can use BC-produced electricity instead of imported diesel, what it does is two things. One is it reduces the cost of producing whatever it is. It could be gold, it could be energy, it could be anything. Makes it cheaper to produce. But the second thing is we get the knock-on effect of not just creating those jobs because it's cheaper to produce them or more globally competitive, but we're also producing the

11:39energy itself that makes that possible. We're producing the electricity, so we're creating jobs there as well. And we're not importing diesel fuel from other jurisdictions around the world to be able to provide it. And we know what the cost of gas and diesel is done as a result of Mr. Trump's adventures overseas. Premier E.B. says the project will help reduce both BC and Canada's reliance on the U.S. Prime Minister Mark Carney announced a $4.7 billion investment to manufacture and maintain over 300 passenger rail cars for via rail's aging fleet. Canada needs better, more reliable passenger rail. Our rail cars on our long distance and remote routes are more than 70 years old. They were built when the NHL had 16s. Goleies wouldn't wear masks. The Leafs would win the cup.

12:40It's a long time ago. So what will this massive investment look like and how much will it help address other operational issues that via rail is facing? Stephen McKinnon is the Federal Minister of Transport. He joins me now. Nice to see you, Minister. Thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me. So via rail's current passenger fleet, they were manufactured in Pennsylvania if I have it right. And many decades ago, so this was an American solution at the time. Now you're announcing a $5 billion, a nearly $5 billion investment, to buy them from Alston Thunder Bay plant. Why are you going with a maiden Canada solution here? Thunder Bay, La Pocatia, San Bruno, de Montalville, in Quebec. About 700 jobs. In fact, this is bringing manufacturing back to Canada. When you buy rail cars every 70 years, you have to work very, very hard to generate the capacity. Fortunately, we were able to come to an agreement with Alston to use their factories, which currently do a lot of great work for Canadian transit companies.

13:41A lot of go cars in there today. I know La Pocatia is equally busy working on those, but it really brings it home when one guy took me aside and said, a few years ago, Mr. McKinnon, we didn't know if we'd have jobs here much longer. And now I think I can see retiring here. And that really brought it home. So we are bringing construction and manufacturing back to Canada. You saw with our earlier announcement about locomotives assembled in Montreal again, first time. This is building Canada strong. Yeah. The Prime Minister said today, obviously, you want to use as many Canadian goods as you possibly can in constructing these new train cars. He said he wants to see Alston maximize the use of Canadian steel. So it sounds like there's still the potential for foreign imports. Or will this be all Canadian steel? Obviously, that sector is hurting right now. This would be potentially a boon for them if they could contribute some steel to these cars. Haven't selected a supplier yet, but the carbon steel in these cars will be Canadian steel

14:44absolutely. Right. So you're adding 313, I think it is, in total rail cars with this purchase. That gives you some flexibility to potentially expand, right? I mean, this is a whole new fleet. The Prime Minister said today that the government is exploring new routes and how we can connect more Canadians. What routes are you considering what is potentially on offer here? Well, we have had an issue in Gas Bay. As you may know, Gas Bay track got washed out. It's the property of the province. The province has been investing in it. We'd like to see that go more quickly. So Gas Bay is one example, but we're always looking for, and VIA is always looking for places to better serve Canadians. We have these iconic trains, the Canadian, the ocean. We want people back on the trains. And we understand that VIA has come up short, particularly in the parts of Canada where it must share track with cargo railroads. These are problems that are hard to solve, but the problems that are within VIA's control

15:46and the market opportunities that are within VIA's control, I think I've been pretty clear about our expectation that those things improve. Yeah, I mean, there's no major, there's some cities in this country where there's no rail service whatsoever. I think Calgary, Regina, Frederickton, St. John, there's, I still get emails from one story I did years ago on VIA rail about the Victoria to Courtney Line on Vancouver Island in BC. Like are these some of the things that maybe could be revived now that there's new train cars on order? Well, again, we are going to continue being aggressive both with respect to high speed rail and alto and opening that up, getting more people in high density locations in the country. So, VIA rail is absolutely free to explore market opportunities where they may exist that we can bring passenger rail back to Canadian. You mentioned operational challenges. Obviously, VIA rail's on-time performance has been poor, very unreliable service, frankly, at this point. We're looking at a 35% on-time performance for 2025.

16:47So fewer than 4 in 10 trains are actually getting to their destination at the scheduled time. It really doesn't get much worse than that, right? I mean, it's hard to imagine below 35% although maybe we'll see this year. What do you make of that dismal record and how do you kind of turn it around knowing that folks who are booking tickets, they're essentially looking at a guaranteed late arrival at this point? Well, again, there are some very significant obstacles with respect to sharing track. The good news with that is, of course, we have a very busy cargo corridor and that's also good for Canadians. But we have some pinch points in this system that we're going to have to work specifically with CN. VIA and CN are going to have to sit down and figure out a way to improve on this problem. But as VIA has some of those things that are maybe not as much in its control, it has some things that are some customer service issues and other issues that I've been very,

17:48very clear about our expectations that they improve that serve. Are you able to sort of step in here and force CN to give priority to passenger rail services that one option that you're considering because that would certainly set the record straight as to which train should move first through a corridor? Well, we don't own the tracks. That's the problem. CN. But you regulate them. CN owns the tracks. So, you know, we'll have to come up with a negotiated solution and I've asked both CN and VIA to explore new avenues of cooperation. I want to squeeze in a trade question for you as well, given the trade war we're in right now. President Trump is threatening to collapse the Canadian economy today. He's got a new social media post out saying the Prime Minister, Steinmead talks with the United States for political reasons, trying to get one up on the U.S. and benefit here at home politically. Trump saying, just watch what I'm going to do to the Canadian economy. What do you say to those sort of taunts from the White House? I say, I repeat the words that the Prime Minister repeats to us, his MPs and his ministers

18:53every day, focus on your job, control what you can control, help build the country, help diversify our trade markets and I as a transport minister of a special role in doing that, ports, rail across the country. So I work very, very hard every day with that mandate in mind. How do we build Canada? How do we bring manufacturing back to Canada and you saw a concrete example of that today? And how do we make sure that Canadian goods conceived in Canada, grown in Canada, manufactured in Canada? How do they get to markets all over the world? But when you see like P. Higgseth, the war secretary mocking Canadian cadets, humiliating them online, you're hearing this rhetoric from the President himself right at the very top. Is it possible to cut a deal with the Americans right now given some of the nastiness that we're seeing from the Trump administration? Canada approaches trade negotiations very seriously. I think you've seen that from my colleague Dominic Leblanc, you've certainly seen that

19:54from the Prime Minister. We have some of the best trade negotiators in the world and we stand ready to negotiate the right deal for Canada. We're not going to sign any deal. We will sign the right deal and meanwhile we have so much to do. There is so much opportunity in this country. When I come home from places like Thunder Bay or La Poucazia today and see what we are able to do and build in this country, it's very inspiring, it's energizing. And so we're going to continue focusing on that and we'll let these other things play out south of the border. Just finally, you're also the government house leader. The government is set to return in a few weeks. Everyone in Ottawa is looking forward to it. I'm sure you most of all. Is there any plans on the Prime Minister's part to shuffle cabinet ahead of that Parliament return given some of the challenges we're facing? Is it time for some new blood in cabinet right now? The Prime Minister talks I think pretty often about having a strong team and again it's inspiring to work with many of the people you saw Tim Hodgson on here.

20:59It's inspiring work today with that major announcement. A very transformative announcement should not be overlooked in British Columbia, which will bring electricity and mining opportunities to rural and remote communities. It's an incredible opportunity. This is a high performance government. We all have our marching orders. The Prime Minister has obviously within his prerogative to deploy people as he thinks best. I defer to him on that, but as for Parliament's return, I can tell you that I can't wait. We have a lot of stuff and I want to put everyone on notice. It's going to be a very busy session of Parliament and we'll be dealing with some very, very serious things and look forward to returning. All right, sounds good. I look forward to it too. Thank you, Steve and McKinney and the Federal Minister of Transport, Nicestezer. Thanks for coming in. Thank you. It has been more than 70 years since a new monarch appeared on a Canadian bank note.

22:00This is the first bank note to feature the portrait of his majesty, King Charles III, following his succession to the throne after the death of her majesty, Queen Elizabeth II. The Bank of Canada unveiled its new $20 bank note today featuring a new monarch. The new bill is green, polymer and vertically oriented. It's set to enter circulation next year. Joining me now is John Frazier, author of the Governor's General in Intimate History of Canada's highest office. Nice to see you, John. Thanks for coming on. Happy to be here. Thank you. So the Queen passed away four years ago next week and now the Bank of Canada is finally replacing her image on the bank notes. What does it mean for you and other monarchists to see the King on the new $20 bill? It's the head of state. He should be there. So it doesn't bother me that they took their time. I'm glad that they did it. I'm enough of a scenic that I was thinking maybe they'll have another idea, which will

23:05be a shame. But so they're doing it. And from what I've seen, it looks like a nice bill. It's come at a good time. I think maybe Canadians who are largely indifferent to the crown, which that's not me mocking Canadians. I think indifference, but not destruction is okay. It's there to serve our purposes and it has on several occasions and will be especially important in the days and months and a few years, certainly the next three years for us. So to me, the fact that he's on our most important paper money, but it comes also at a time as you and I both know, JP, when people don't use cash very much anymore. But the 20s bill, that's the good one to be honest. That's the one. Yeah, that's the one people use most. You mentioned the next couple of years, given what we're going through with the United

24:06States, the constant threats to our sovereignty, the mocking of our history and heritage. Why do you think it's particularly important now that the head of state has a place on these bills? It's a reminder to Canadians of their different history. In the United States, they got rid of the kings. In Canada, we evolved into this situation. I am like, I hope most Canadians just really pissed off with what's going down the states. It's so unnecessary and stupid, but I'm getting dark. I'm hoping that the president gets his ballroom. I'm hoping he gets his ridiculous arch and I even think they should chisel his face as the fifth face in the Mount Rushmore because I think Americans should be constantly reminded that they let this guy in power and to do everything that he's done. It should remain there for a while afterwards. I'm all for all of these huge projects. I think they're a salutary thing. By the same token, I'm really glad that we've got our king on our 20-dollar bill because

25:11a social reminder of a different way of going about governance. JP, I once did an interview with Mr. Harper when he was prime minister of another book that had crown leanings. He said to me, really interesting thing. He said he felt it was like most Canadians. He didn't think too much about the crown one way or another. He wasn't anti, but he certainly wasn't particularly pro until he became prime minister. Then he realized how useful it was, but that wasn't his number one reason. It was the fact that any of the alternatives he would try and think about just simply scared him stiff, which is not a heroic statement on why our system of government may impact a more democratic way than the American system. It is an interesting reality. Curiously, the Americans keep, I might dare, they keep re-electing George the third every four years.

26:12I mean, they should put Trump on their dollar bills and everything because he is a kind of elected king. We seem to have a kind of appointed Republican. Right. A reddish-hairy Republican or something. I've heard that said. Obviously, at the outset of this US dispute, King Charles kind of swooped in and dropped into Canada at a very opportune time, read the speech from the throne, asserted rather dramatically that the true North is indeed strong and free. He planted a maple leaf tree at Buckingham Palace. He gave a new sword to his attendant here in Canada. There was a lot of symbolism last year. Do you think the king needs to do more this year and now to assert Canadian sovereignty? Should he renew those efforts, give him what we're going through again with the president? Yeah, we need to see him. The late Queen said I have to be seen to be believed in. We need to see him or his son. The royal families going through a business like all families, they've got deserters

27:14in their ranks, they've got serious illness. To me, I've got a lot of patience. I think the king loves this country and will come. Mr. Carney has a prime minister, as far as I can tell, a very good relationship with him, which is also something new for the Liberal Party government. We do need to see him or we need the reminders that we have this evolved system of a hereditary monarchy that doesn't do us, I don't think any harm, but a lot of good. But he's, guys, as far as I know, still undergoing chemotherapy and I'm satisfied to take what we can of him. He's going to the states a few months ago and giving that extraordinary speech to Congress. He was speaking for us, too, whether they were just what I call the king of England

28:14or not. But that was our sovereign leader stating some basic home juice in the lion's den, including about responsibilities of government and checks and balances, all of which seemed to be going by the wayside in that country on the eve of their 250th anniversary. So to me, $20 bill with our king on it is a positive thing. But I think it probably has more acceptance now that it would have even just a few years ago when these emotions go on what we think our country should be like. Right now I think the monarchy is quite safe. And don't forget the king reminded Trump of the war of 1812. That was a dramatic moment as well. Asserting his sovereignty over that country as well in that speech at the state dinner. Okay, let's leave it there. John Frazier, author of the governor's general and intimate history of Canada's highest office. Thanks to CSER. Thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me, JP. Thank you very much.

29:18The Prime Minister is leaving the door open to restarting trade talks with the U.S. even as U.S. administration officials continue to target Canada and accuse Mark Carney of walking away from the deal for political gain. I don't think with all respect appointed, unelected, cabinet members in the United States are experts on Canadian politics. The deal that's possible that's in the interest of Canadian workers' families and businesses is also the deal that is in the interest of American families, American businesses, American consumers. And we're ready to sit down and strike that deal when the Americans are ready. Shortly after, Carney spoke today, the U.S. President posted this on social media. It is very good for Canadian politicians like Prime Minister Carney to make President Donald Jay Trump the enemy until their economy collapses and it will prove to be very bad for politics, worse than anything that has ever happened to a Canadian politician.

30:19The power panel is here. Jamie Elerton is a veteran of center-right campaigns. Michelle Caderio was deputy chief of staff to former Prime Minister Paul Martin and Chachee Curl. He's the president of the Angus Reed Institute, nice to see you all. Thanks for being here. Struggle to read those posts sometimes from the president. I mean, the grammar is just all over the place there. But let's start with you, Michelle. Obviously, U.S. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik is at it again, blaming Canada for talks falling apart, suggesting it's because of domestic politics in this country. We know what the government, of course, says it's that it was a bad deal. That's why he walked away. Why do you make of what the Prime Minister says there when he says unelected cabinet officials in the United States? They don't know anything about Canadian politics. Just stay out of it. Well, I think it was probably just an off-hand way to say, never mind to these buffoons who are just trying to please Donald Trump and they've clearly been told, you go out

31:20there, you tell Canadians that it was their prime minister. It's all their faults. You can just see him without even knowing him, just ranting and raving that how could we walk away from this and don't they know what they're doing? The Prime Minister is doing the right thing. He's moving on. It was great to see him in Northwestern Ontario today, up in Thunder Bay, with a big announcement and a lot of jobs, a lot of workers behind him. They're going to be making some things in Canada like these rail cars that we haven't done for what, 40 years. The last ones we bought, they were from the United States and now they're not. Those are decisions that he's moving on with. Whether it's Latinac or Basant or whoever it is that they want to pop up on different media things, go to it. I don't think that they're convincing a single person on either side of the board or quite honestly.

32:20Jamie, it seems like the President was watching the Prime Minister today because the Prime Minister made those comments, essentially, like these guys don't know what they're talking about. That's not why we walked away from the deal. Then literally a few minutes after the press conference wraps, we get this social media post from Trump saying he's going to collapse the Canadian economy and that won't be good for politics up in Canada. Obviously, Trump is very tuned to what's going on with this file right now. Doesn't it seem like he's very active in terms of how much he has to say about Canada? You could say he's active and I think everyone continues to almost give Trump too much credit when talking about the art of the deal. The only actual art here is he's authoring a great American tragedy. As he further weakens, the United States' global standing and effectively abandons being leader of the actual free world trying to do good in the world. I think when you look at where this is for the Prime Minister today, it is undeniable. The Prime Minister Karni is getting the rally around the flag effect and that Canadians broadly across the political spectrum are trusting him to go forward with this. I think when you look at with the state of this deal, every day you have a low ranking,

33:24mid-ranking, high ranking, or the President, head of the administration himself tweeting just absolutely ass-and-eye and absurd provocative things about Canada is another day that that next round of trade talks is not getting scheduled. I think when you come to the hard economics of this, Canadian economists are actually quite consistent in reporting that the Canadian economy has proved remarkably resilient and that the effect of a potential blowing up of Kuzma as we know it today would not have the grave sky is going to fall effects and that the Canadian economy can probably weather it. I think it's with all this macroeconomic data in mind that the Prime Minister genuinely has the confidence of Canadians and is working to move what the path forward is on this. I think where the Prime Minister potentially gets himself into trouble is he hasn't really shared much in terms of details as to what's gone on. He had issues with the being honest as to what was in the Gordy How Bridge reopening deal and so what is the role for Parliament in all of this and how can he bring Canadians along if he's keeping them in the darkest to what the actual plan is.

34:26Yes, Shachy, what's your data saying on whether Canadians are supporting the Prime Minister? Right now, I know we had you on the program recently and you had some very startling figures as to how many people are lined up behind them with that decision to walk away from a trade agreement, a potentially bad trade agreement. What are you seeing in the numbers you're getting from survey respondents right now? It's just really interesting because what Donald Trump says about well, Cardi's motivations were about getting a big political bump. He already had the buy-in of a majority of Canadians going into these latest rounds of what are now failed talks. We knew that. We had been watching and it wasn't a sudden thing. It's a better part of 15 months. We've seen consistently Canadians saying, take a hard line, don't make a bad deal. Take a strong approach, don't roll over, don't make concessions and we've seen this over and over and over again.

35:26So while Trump's accusations around the Prime Minister's motivations are interesting and in fact maybe even give the opposition leader something to sink his teeth into if he wants to try and propagate that narrative because Mr. Polly has been in a really difficult situation, has not been able to say much about this that's resonated. Maybe this isn't a line for him, at least for half of his base that's on his side because the other half of the conservative base is actually on Mr. Cardi's side. But I also look at, you know, it cuts both ways President Trump. What's motivating or what you accuse, Mark Carney of being motivated by, you can similarly be accused of your own bias and motivation. I know we're going to talk about the midterms a little later in this conversation, but when you look at how difficult it is right now for Republicans in a lot of key states, one of the most important Republicans in the world is the President Trump.

36:29Our own polling shows his approval rating is down to 34% nationally and you know every time he opens his mouth about Canada, all he's doing is making Americans more aware of this tariff issue, which they weren't aware of a year ago. A year ago a majority of Canadians, sorry Americans had not heard at all about the tariffs on Canada. That number per the Ipsos Reuters CNN poll is actually down to something like only 20% haven't heard about it. So the more he talks about it, the more Americans are aware of it, the more Americans are aware of it, we've seen consistently they're not supportive of the tariff. So I don't know what he's doing. Like, I mean, do we ever know what he's doing? But I don't know because this doesn't serve his midterm prospects. Well, let's talk about the midterms and we'll get some reaction to the trade war from within the president's own party and from someone who has a lot to lose during these midterm. Politico spoke to main Republican Sanders Susan Collins, who shed some light on what

37:32it's like dealing with the Trump administration as someone who represents a border state. It is hard for me that he often does not consult at all with Congress. For example, Canadian tariffs. I think it would have been great if he took those of us who represent border states and said, what does this mean? I as the president doing that given that your seat is probably the most vulnerable Senate seat Republicans have in the country. Well, I wish he wouldn't and I don't understand the dynamics. Canada is our friend, our closest ally and our biggest trading partner. This is not China that we're talking about. This is not an adversarial country. Michelle, what do you make of some of that commentary? Also in the interview, she said these tariffs are just terrible really for the lobster industry.

38:33A lot of major sectors in Maine are so dependent on Canada, of course. What do you make of a Republican sort of striking out against the White House on these tariffs? Well, sure, but she's been an enabler of almost everything that he's ever done. It's only now that it might be hurting her own electoral chances that she's finding a bit of a backbone and speaking up. So call me skeptical. Let's just be honest. Trump has never consulted the Congress or the Senate on anything he's ever done. So to suggest that he doesn't, even her half-hand comment that it would have been nice in this circumstance. He never does that. And so she's totally actually infuriated, actually. She is absolutely backing up that he is, he acts legitimately in some cases when he doesn't. And now, because probably people who live in Maine who depend a lot on Canadians, there's

39:35a lot of trade that goes on between, you know, certainly Maine and the Atlantic Canada. There's a lot of tourists that are no longer going down to Maine and certainly they're feeling that. And she's got, you know, she's up for re-election. There was she two years ago talking about it. Well, she was to campaign for her Donald Trump knowing full well what he was all about in the first term. So, you know, great. Open your eyes, maybe. But I suspect that she gets elected and it all goes back to normal once again. And she'll put through whoever is his latest crazy idea or, you know, Supreme Court nominee she'll be right behind them. Yeah, Jamie, I mean, it's just abysmal political management though to not speak with senators from border states that are going to be affected by these tariffs that he's imposed on Canadian goods and now will be affected by tariffs coming from Canada. It's just like, you don't even talk to your own people about what's to come. You left Susan Collins out of Maine in the dark. Like it's just not really a way to wage any kind of war.

40:36Let alone a trade war like this where the economic impacts are real. Well, I think this is actually almost JP become one of the hallmarks of the second Trump administration is this man is going to do whatever he wants based off whatever whim and how he's concocted his inspiration for his series of actions that he's not going to talk with anyone. His disdain for Congress has seemed to be far more robust in the second term than it was the first time, at least in Trump one, you had a lot of establishment Republicans and people who fundamentally understand how the system of government has traditionally worked in the United States around him and they're at act that is a bit of guardrails. Those are all gone. He is now surrounded by nothing but sick of fans and people who enable whatever he wants to do. And so for the Canadian calculation on this, it's how do you increase the pressures that he starts to feel consequences when you listen to Senator Collins's remarks there? That sounds like a politician who feels genuinely torn twisting and answering what should be very straightforward questions because she's trying to acknowledge actual reality

41:38which is an occupational hazard in Donald Trump's Washington while trying to appease the big boss. Yes, actually, what are you hearing from? I mean, I know you're not dabbling in American pulling. Obviously. Oh, we are. Yeah, what are you hearing? Like, is there some pushback from the Republicans? I mean, some other, as you mentioned, the Reuters poll from Ipsos shows, I think it's just one-tiperscent of American survey to this point, support the trade war. Is there a potential impact here on the midterm elections? Like, had some of these border state Republicans or some of the candidates in those states? Could they be really on the line here given what we're seeing from the economic impacts? It's not just border state Republicans, JP. And I want to go back and echo what Michelle talked about around the cynicism towards Susan Collins. Susan Collins is always going to Susan Collins. She's going to say all the things that sound really righteous and then eventually vote with Trump. It's more about those purple states, those swing states, whether or not they're on the

42:39border, who are starting to hear and equate from their own senators and their own congress representatives that the tariffs can tie or draw a straight line to or can be tied to affordability issues. And there are a lot of people in the United States who are either mega Republicans or non-mega Republicans who are looking at affordability as a key issue and as a ballot issue for them. And they're asking questions about the Iran war. They're asking questions about anything that potentially makes the cost of them paying for things for their household on a weekly basis more expensive. And so, are some of these border states in play? Yeah, a few of them are, not all of them, but it's a bigger question around the interplay between Trump actually in some ways making his own case against the tariffs again because

43:41the more he talks about them, the more Americans are attuned to them. And at the same time, we see whether or not he can make the case for himself with these midterms coming up and try to use Canada as the saw horse as he's clearly trying to do again today. Michelle, I mean, a lot of folks in this country are saying, let's just wait for 2028. Hopefully things will get better if there's someone else in the White House. But we heard from Gavin Newsom, the California governor, who is at this point one of the front runners to be the Democratic nominee for president if he decides to run in the end. And he was saying, well, he can't guarantee that the next Democratic president will lift these tariffs on Canada. He wasn't exactly definitive that these are going to be gone if there is a Democrat in power. Is there a risk that these tariffs outlast, Donald Trump and this administration, given that there's really a reluctance on the Democratic part to commit to getting rid of these tariffs?

44:42Absolutely. We can't be betting on anybody else but ourselves. And that's what the Prime Minister has been saying all along. And that's why he's making some big bold and very aggressive investments in Canada and trying to shift around our economy. I think that hopefully what will be gone once Trump is is the constant threats and disrespect that they have for our country. And the ridiculousness of trying to just being outright out there wanting to destroy us. So one would hope that perhaps the rhetoric might tone down, but there's no guarantees of that either. And I'm so cautious about getting my hopes up about these midterms. I'll leave it when I see it. I just have a bad feeling that he might find some way to get the votes again. And the map is tough as you kind of go through it on those walls on some of the other American

45:47stations. So I and not the results will have any difference. I think that we're in for a very tough time where protectionism and retent, retent and trenching into the American psyche is becoming kind of deroghary. Okay let's leave it there. Thank you so much to the Power Panel, Jamie Ellerton, Michelle Cudario and Shachikurl. Nice to see you all. That's it for today. If you liked this episode, please follow the pod and catch our next live show on CBC News Network. We're on weekdays at 5 PM Eastern. I'm JP Tascar. Thanks for listening. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcast.