Can Wemby's Spurs win title? Warriors next move, Jaylen Brown MVP case, KD's weakness | NBA Mailbag

0:00This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human. Hey, this is Lovarian to hear from Up On Game. This message is brought to you by AppleCard. AppleCard members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for AppleCard in the wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes. Subjected credit approval, AppleCard issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch, terms and more at AppleCard.com. The season's heating up and DoorDash keeps fans deep in their bag the whole way through. Players have their bags, sure, but with DoorDash, fans do too. When the game's moving fast, DoorDash keeps the snacks stocked, the gear fresh and the watch party vibes immaculate. And when your team blows a lead, suddenly you're a dessert person. DoorDash always comes through fries, face masks, whatever you need to emotionally recover.

1:03So from tip off to OT, stay in your bag and order on DoorDash. Snacks, drinks, gear, any and everything, deliver DoorDash in your bag all season long. The Toyota Tundra and Tacoma are built to keep going backed by Toyota's reputation for legendary reliability. Step into a Tundra with the available iForce Max Hybrid Engine, delivering impressive torque and serious towing power. Take a look at Tacoma with an available power liftgate, so gear goes in fast and the adventure keeps moving. Toyota trucks are built to last year after year, mile after mile. So drive home today, visit Toyota.com to find out more. Toyota, let's go places. This is Daniel Cormier from the Daniel Cormier Show. This podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of UFC. Power doesn't wait in the octagon or outside of it. You either make the move or you miss the moment. That's why you need a network that's just as powerful as you are. With Total Wireless, you get unlimited 5G data keeping you in the action from the walkouts to the knockouts.

2:07Now that's a total power move. Make your total power move today. Visit TotalWireless.com or stop by your neighborhood Total Wireless Store. Additional terms apply. See TotalWireless.com for details. The volume. All right, welcome to Hootsenite here at the volume. Happy Friday, everybody. Hope all of you guys had it in front of a week. It is a mailbag day. It's been a few weeks since we've had a mailbag. And so as a result, we got a ton of questions to get to. I've got 15 questions today for me bouncing all around the league, hitting all sorts of topics. You guys know the drill before we started to subscribe to the Hootsenite YouTube channel. So you don't miss any more videos. Make sure you guys like this video and sign up for post notifications. That helps us a lot. And last but not least, if you guys want to get questions into our mailbags, go to our full episodes on YouTube, go into the comments underneath those videos and write mailbag,

3:07call and write your question. That helps me sort through as I'm going through the comments and we'll get to them. Mostly on Fridays throughout the remainder of the season. All right, let's talk some basketball. First question. Hey, Jason, love the show. Watch every single one. Thanks for the support. My question is, how is Cade and Jalen Brown, not two of the top three MVP front runners? I thought MVP was most valuable player to your team. Cade doesn't even have a 20 point score on his team. And nobody thought he would be first in the east. And JB lost his whole starting five from last year and everyone thought they were tanking, but they're number two in the east. And my pick goes in my pick to go to the finals. What's your thoughts on that? Keep up the great work, my friend. Thanks again for the support. This is an interesting question. This has been a popular topic over the course of the last few days as for one. Shay looked like he was running away with it, but then suddenly Luke account made a run at it. Wembee has made a run at it. And I think both of those guys have compelling cases. I still think Shay's in the lead. But then we had that Mike Wilbon quote that came out and he's an actual voter who came out and said that he plans on voting for Jalen Brown.

4:08And then he said, basically said, don't even consider Luca because he only plays one side of the floor. And so we've seen all sorts of different angles come at this over the course of the last few days. And so I think it's worth diving into now. And yesterday's show, or I should say Wednesday's show, I talked more about why Shay's number one, why have Wembee number two, why I have Luca number three. But I want to zoom in on why I think there's a large gap between Luca number three and guys like Kate and Jalen coming after that point. And the answer is pretty simple. When you talk about these teams and why they have successes, when you dig into the thunder, for example, they have been utterly devoid of ball handling this year. And you have the, you have the injury to AJ Mitchell that took place through the year, the multiple hamstring injuries for J. And a lot of ball handling responsibilities fallen on Shay. So that can be similar to Kate, right? But there is a kind of, in my opinion,

5:08a three step process to becoming the MVP or should say a three criteria method to evaluating MVP. Those of you guys who've been listening to this show over the years, I've been pretty consistent about this. I think MVP is a combination of who's the best player in the league? Who's the best player on the best team? And who is the most valuable player to their team? It's those three things. And when you look at Kate, obviously you've got the best player on the best team case in the sense that the pistons are the number one seed in the Eastern conference. And certainly in terms of just how many impressive wins they've had this year. That's a strong case for him. But he's very weak in the other two areas in the sense that one, no one even considers Kate close to that top tier of superstars. He's firmly in the second tier somewhere between like the seventh eighth, the seventh to 13th, 14th best player in the league. Depending on who you ask, right? Like I have on the upper side of that. But no one's going to put him even in the same conversation as Wembee,

6:12Shay, Luca, Yannis, Yoke, it's the actual top tier stars in the league. So Kate does not have a strong, easy, the best player in the world type of guy case, right? So that undercuts him. Then on the most valuable player piece, the problem is is that the pistons. I talked about this after one of the shows early this week, Monday or Tuesday. I can't remember exactly which one. But the star of the pistons is their defense. They win games primarily because of their defense. They mall you physically with ball pressure. And then they do a lot of damage on the offensive glass as well. It's a size and physicality based team. Kate obviously is very valuable to the pistons. I don't want to undercut his case. But because he's weak in the value side and because he's weak in the, is he actually among the best players in the league side? He's weak in two out of the three areas, which puts him pretty far down that list, right? Same thing goes for Jalen Brown. No one's going to consider him in the conversation

7:14among the best players in the world. He is firmly a second tier star. Like I said, somewhere in that six, seven to 13, 14 range, depending on who you ask, right? And then in terms of value, the Celtics have actually been better when he's off the floor this year than when he's on. And when I look at the Celtics and I think about why they're so good this year, it's a lot to do with Joe Mazula and their system and the continuity of the players that have been around for a long time and the way that they play on offense and how good they are with their physical ball pressure and the margins that they win. Like their corner crashes and the damage they do on the offensive glass to mitigate some of their issues that they've had defensive rebounding. Like when I talk about the Celtics and the reasons why they win, Jalen Brown is just further down the list than the guys that are above him in the MVP case. So when I look at Cade and Jalen Brown because they're not considered among the very best players in the world and because they're not as valuable to their teams as some of the other guys on that list, that's what keeps them lower and a lower tier than the other guys in the list.

8:14So when I get to the top guys, right? When I'm talking Shay, when I'm talking Nicole Yoke, it's when I'm talking Victor Wembenyama, when I'm talking Luca Dongett and I think Yoke just clearly on the bottom side of that. He missed a large chunk of games this year and since he came back from his knee injury, as I'm very good. Yoke was like clear MVP candidate before his knee injury and had he not gotten hurt and sustained that play throughout the end of the season. I think he would have been neck and neck with Shay. I think the nuggets would probably be higher in the standings, right? But we got to, we got to take the Yoke pitch piece and set it aside that this tail end of the season just hasn't been as good for him as he was to start the year. I think, I think he's above Cade and Jalen Brown, but I think he's clearly below the Luca, Wembeny, Shay, GO2S Alexander group. So, but in that group, all four of them have legitimate cases to be the best player in the world. You can talk to, you can make a case that Wembeny is the best player in the world. I wouldn't make that case because I think that's a playoff case as we've talked about. So, to me, Wembeny's not going to get that recognition until, until he makes that case in the postseason. But you can make the case Wembeny is the best player in the world.

9:14You can make the case Luke is the best player in the world with the way he's been playing over the last month and a half. You can make the case Shay is the best player in the world. I think he probably has the best case right now in terms of the regular season. And obviously, like you Yoke itch in that group, obviously, because he's been recognized as the best player in the world for several years at this point. So they all have really strong cases in that department. Then you dig into like best player on the best team conversation. This is what puts Luca to me below the Victor Wembenyama, Shay Gilgis Alexander to you. Shay and Wembee are the two guys that check the box of like, could he be potentially the best player in the world? And is this the best basketball team in the world? The Spurs have a legitimate case to be the best basketball team in the world. They've been one of the most, the two or three most impressive teams in the league this year. Same with Oklahoma City. So, Oklahoma City and San Antonio have the team success. Then you dig into the on-off numbers and all of those guys. Luca, Shay, Wembee really strong on-off numbers. Luca at the bottom of that group, the Lakers are better this year when Luca's on the floor versus off.

10:19Shay, they're about what six or seven points better per 100 possessions when he's on versus off. Actually, I think it's eight or nine. I think it's like nine points per 100 possessions. And then Wembee, it's like plus 17, right? So like when I'm looking at Jalen Brown and Kay Cunningham in those three categories, they're really only strong in the team's success category compared to their peers. Wembee and Shay, my two, the two guys that I think have the best chance to win it, are candidates for best player in the world clearly playing for teams that have had an enormous amount of team success and that are in that top tier and are deeply profoundly valuable to their teams. And so they check all three of those boxes and that gives them a substantial edge. That's why to me, Kay and Jalen Brown are far off of that tier. Next question. Hey Jason, with all the injuries piling up, do you think it would be a good idea for the warriors to just sit, Steph Curry, the rest of the season and look ahead next year? My concern is that with so many guys out, the entire offense falls on his shoulders. And the last thing we need is Steph over exerting himself and ending with the season ending injury. It's not, it's just not worth the risk at this point.

11:20I'll talk to that. Do you think it would actually be a good opportunity for the warriors to make a move for Yannis and Tenek Kumpo? With the buck situation being what it is, go and stay put together a package worth considering. Perry Yannis was Steph next season on a healthier roster. He could absolutely be lethal. If they go that route, what do you think are the realistic chances next season? So first of all, there are three steps to that. Number one, should they shut down Steph for the year? To me, it's 100% about what he feels. Like if, and Steve Curry actually said his much last night, but like, or two nights ago, but like, if Steph is 100% and he's like, my knee's good, let's play basketball, then what do you have to lose? Go play basketball. Like there's, I just like we're going to, just like we talked about with Yannis on Wednesday's show, like trying to tell a super competitive player to go sit down and not play basketball when he's healthy and can play basketball is bullshit, frankly. Like I'm not okay with that. So like if that's 100% go for it. But yeah, if he's experiencing discomfort in his knee, especially now that Moses Moody is out, you have no shot. So what's the point? Don't risk overheard it overexerting and injuring Steph

12:21if he's not ready to go. So all whether or not he plays before the end of the season to me is like, is he 100% or not? If he's 100% yes, play him. If he's not, no, sit him down and make a run next season. Second part of this, Yannis. I talked about this at the deadline. To me, Yannis makes the most sense for a trade destination after he leaves Milwaukee as you dig around the league. Like I don't understand the next part because I don't think they have enough to offer. I just don't understand why Milwaukee would want to do that. I just don't think they would get enough back. Same goes for Miami, although Miami can offer a little bit more but I don't know why Yannis would want to go there. I don't think Miami would be close to good enough with Yannis, right? Minnesota, I don't know why Minnesota would do it. Anthony Edwards is this young ascending star. Don't sell your future and massively shorten your window when you've got an ascending star in his early 20s. I've hated that move from the start. Golden State toes the line of like can offer a massive amount of draft compensation to Milwaukee to help reset their future.

13:22To where like Milwaukee would actually get a ton back and feel like, hey, to be able to go to their fans and be like, hey, we lost Yannis, but we got this massive trove of first round draft picks for a team that's probably going nowhere in the long run in terms of like after the Yannis step phase. This is great for us. Let's do this. So it makes sense for Milwaukee for Golden State. Now, especially that Moses Moody is out. Your future is looking extremely bleak. You don't have a single guy that is like a legitimate foundational piece to build around for the future. So like you got nothing to lose. You got Steph who's going to turn 39 next season. Why not pair him with Yannis? There's a really nice natural basketball fit there. Yannis would step in and they'd immediately become a relevant team in the Western Conference. So Yannis gets to play serious basketball. Him and Steph are this fantastic fit. It's a high risk proposition for Golden State because Yannis is injury prone. But what does Golden State have to lose? It's the one situation that actually seems to make sense

14:24to me for both sides. Milwaukee gets a bunch of draft compensation. Yannis gets to play serious basketball. Golden State can actually afford to absorb the risk because they're not going anywhere anyway, right? Like it's not like they have a foundational star where they could use those four first round picks to build around him in the coming seasons. Like you're starting from scratch no matter what. And let's say you have Yannis and it's a two year window and you win or you lose whatever. But then it's post Yannis, right? You can flip Yannis and maybe get something small back. Probably not close to what you sent out. You can get something small back. Steph for tires. Then what you can do is you can have two years where you eat every bad contract in the league and just take on draft picks for two years. You suck and you eat all these bad contracts but you build your draft throw back up and then you get a chance to go for it. But at the same time you're faithful to Steph Curry. You gave him his final chance to try to compete for a championship. To me, it's the one situation that makes a ton of sense.

15:25There was a lot of this like, oh, why are we trying to force Yannis to the warriors thing going on around the deadline? I was like, this just makes the most sense. It's not forcing anything. It's like the warriors are old and desperate. They have draft compensation to offer Milwaukee. Yannis and Steph are a natural basketball fit. Like why the hell not, right? So like I actually think it makes a ton of sense. Now if they go that route, what are their chances look like next season? It all depends on how they can fill out the rest of the roster. Obviously losing a guy like Moses Moody would really hurt you in that case. But like you instantly become a favorable destination for your veteran minimum contracts for your mid-level exceptions, right? Like maybe you can convince a guy like LeBron to come over if you're lucky. Like maybe Jimmy Butler if he isn't used as the, I think you probably have to be used as the trade piece. But like there's, you just, it just depends on how you round out the rest of the roster. But they would certainly go up from where they've been to in that like middle tier in the Western Conference. And from there, it's like, good luck dealing with Steph and Yannis in a playoff series if they're both healthy when they get there.

16:26So I would be, if it be foolish to count them out. I'm super excited to tell you guys about our partnership with Viori. Those of you guys who are familiar with Viori have noticed I've been wearing it on the show a ton over the last few years. It's become a workhorse for me today. I'm wearing the seaside pullover hoodie. One that I just got that I've really enjoyed. I wore it out on a cold windy day the other day and I was super warm and comfortable throughout. They make all sorts of stuff. I love their athletes. I wear that stuff on the show all the time. You see me wear the Ponto performance t-shirt. An excellent t-shirt. I think it's the best t-shirt in the game right now. I also wear some of their Ponto performance hoodies and sweatpants when I go to the gym. There's a lot of versatility with Viori clothing. It's super durable. You can wash it a million times and it maintains the same quality that you expect when you purchase a piece of Viori clothing. But it's versatile. I can wear it in casual settings like around my house. I can wear it here on the show. I can also wear it when I go out to lunch with my wife or when I go out shopping or go out and run errands with her. There's a ton of versatility and utility in your wardrobe when you go through Viori.

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18:29at the season, my team loses and suddenly I'm a dessert person. DoorDash always comes through for me after a blown lead. My friends silent DoorDash pulling up with fries and maybe even a face mask so I can process what I just watched. Then there are late night cravings. I'm watching post game interviews at midnight, reliving highlights and out of nowhere I need And I don't know where I need chips. DoorDash is built for that moment. And when the group says pull up, DoorDash makes sure I show it prepared with snacks, drinks, and even an extra charger. From tip off to OT, stay in your bag in order on DoorDash. DoorDash, in your bag, all season long. Hey, this is Louvarian, to hear from Up On Game. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases, wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place, or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the wallet app

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20:30to find out more. Toyota, let's go places. Aside from the injuries, the warriors continue to be a confusing team to watch. They can beat teams like Denver and Houston, keep it close with Oklahoma City in New York, but then they lose to the jazz and the bulls and were blown out by Boston this week. Why are they so inconsistent? It seems like this has been a trend ever since the 2022 championship, is there something larger at work here? Curious to hear your thoughts, I love the show. Thanks again for the sport. This to me is pretty simple. So like, you're building around ball handling right now because Steph is out in the form of, like, Brandon Pajewski and Dan Danymelt, and, you know, you're, what's his name? The lacrosse player I'm playing against. The Pat Spencer, I don't know why I was blanking on his name there for a second, but you're working with younger inconsistent ball handlers, right? Dan Danymelt is not young, but obviously he's more of a role player. And so you've given him a bunch of on ball responsibility. It's going to be up and down. You know, generally speaking in the NBA, the difference between the awesome players and the bad players isn't necessarily potential.

21:31There are a lot of guys around the league. Like, I've watched the angel of Russell have games where like, I'm like, oh my god, like he, you know, 27 points and 11 assists. Like he's this incredible ball handler, right? Like, I've seen Najee Marshall go for massive games as an on ball player, right? Like, even just within the Warriors, we've seen Brandon Pajewski have great nights. We've seen Pat Spencer have great nights. There are guys all around the league that on any given night can give you a 30 or on any given night can give you 10 assists, right? Like, it's just about making the reads. I remember the first time we watched Andrew Nemhard go into Golden State and ripped the Warriors apart. This is a few years back. And I'm like, holy shit, this Andrew Nemhard guy can like hit pull up threes, hit mid range jumpers, make all the passing reads and pick and roll. Like, there's 50, 60 guys in the league that can handle a basketball and run 30 picking rolls in a game and run good offense. Maybe even more than that. The difference between the guys that are making 40 million dollars a year doing it and the guys that aren't is consistency.

22:33And so yeah, like that's gonna be the nature of Golden State while steps out. And I'd argue it's been the nature when steps been in because the secondary ball handling piece has been inconsistent at times, right? So like, ultimately what's happening is some nights Pat Spencer can get the job done. Some nights Brandon Pajewski can get the job done. Sometimes they can't. And that's kind of what separates them from those upper tier guys. And that's just a reality of life without Steph Curry in the lineup. Next question. Is Yoke it's making it a big deal to get a trip, making it not that big of a deal to get a triple double anymore? Or is it just not that big of a deal when he gets one because he averages it? I do still see social post go crazy when a player gets one, but it's just another game for Yoke Joker. Does that take away from the triple double at all as he isn't always flashy? And sometimes he always plays, sometimes he even plays bad for his standards and still ends up with one. Curious your take. This is the classic problem that has been the case for ever in the NBA, which is the greatest players in the league are so consistently great that they become,

23:34almost we become numb to it, right? Like I'm recording this on Wednesday. I watched the Suns Nuggets game this morning and like Yoke it was incredible in that game. Like absolutely incredible. But like it wasn't a game where he had 35 points, right? So like it's not the game that gets the type of recognition that other games gets, but like we take for granted the fact that a lot of those top tier guys are generally incredible every single night. The second piece of it is there's levels to it. I deal with this with Luca fans all the time. They go, oh, he had 35, nine and seven last night and I'll be like, yeah, he was really good, but like I've seen Luca be a lot better. Like there's levels that he can get to that are above that, right? So like we get numb to it. The best players in the world, specifically the top tier guys, even when they're not on their best night can really fill the box score, which can also kind of make it difficult to judge their like true best performances versus some of their more mediocre performances, right?

24:34But like that's just the issue with everybody. Yokech, just like LeBron over the years, just like Shay does now, just like Luca does now, just like Yannis has always done, like Wembee to this day, like, or Wembee kind of joining the conversation now at this point, like when you're in that top tier, we get numb to your success and all of a sudden the stuff that sticks out isn't your average performances, it's your extraordinary performances. And that's just kind of the nature of what comes with the standard, the standard of the best player in the world conversation. Are the Rockets problems, coaching problems, or roster construction problems? Secondly, so the Rockets trade Shenguin for Yannis, possibly run a lineup with him at the five, making him much better defensively and giving him more on offense and more consistency. Thank you, love the show. Thanks for the kind of words. So I would argue that it's both, there's a lack of a depth of ball handling and shooting talent for Houston. There's a, you know, one of the things with Dylan Brooks that was underrated is it wasn't just that he was this great defender.

25:35Dylan Brooks had ball skills. He could knock down an open catch in shoe three, he was good at driving closeouts and making the next decision in the chain. You take Fred Van Vliet out of the equation, he's another like very good ball handler passer. And so as you took those guys out, and Katie is very much a pure score. He's not the best ball handler, not the best passer in the world. As a team, their amount of ball handling and shooting talent has dipped from where it was last season. And so that has made it really difficult for them to convert four on three. So some of its roster, some of its injury, like the injury to Fred Van Vliet was really devastating for this team, right? And like, I definitely think that the rockets over the course of the next few trade cycles will be looking to supplement this team with ball handling and shooting. But there is a coaching piece there. I saw this hilarious tweet the other day that was basically like, you made you docker's half game, a half time adjustments is basically just to call you a bitch. Like, I just died laughing when I saw it. Because it's so funny, because that's basically you made you docker, right? Like he famously turned around the Boston Celtics in the 2022 season in large part by making them tougher.

26:39He took a group that was not achieving what they were capable of relative to their talent. And he got them to be tougher and to play harder, to be more physical. And I think there's real value there. But like Houston in particular, their guys are already pretty tough. So it wasn't really a toughness issue. It's more of an organization issue there. And that's not to say that there's no value in having e-mail and his ability to motivate you and his ability to make sure you play hard on most nights like that sort of thing. But like e-mail clearly is the kind of head coach that's more of a motivator and needs to be anchored by a refined offensive tactician. And so that'll be the thing. Like if you're running an e-mail you docker led staff, you got to get an assistant that can help him with the X's and no side of it. Because that's clearly something that he needs support with. Next question. Hey Jason, in your opinion, which dysfunctional player slash team trait is more damning to these respective coaches overall process and gameplay? The fact that the Timberwolves can't run a fact to pick and roll with Rudy since he's unable to catch consistent passes in the nail with coach Finch

27:43or the fact that KD has constant mental breakdowns when he sees the double is most likely forcing a turnover on that possession with e-mail you docker. So again, both have been disappointing. I've been very disappointed in the ability of Houston to weaponize KD's attention that he gets as a score into easier opportunities, but I actually think the Finch stuff is worse. And the reason why is like coaching can only take you so far. Like yes, KD turns the ball over way too much against traps, but I've seen a lot of possessions where KD draws the double and does get rid of the basketball and sparks the four on three and they just don't convert it. And large part because of that lack of aggregate ball handling and shooting talent that we talked about earlier. What bothers me with Minnesota is they have a ton of ball handling and shooting. They have a lot of guys who can dribble shooting pass and they've got a ton of shooting. And so this is where I put it more on coach Finch where like we know with Rudy, like he can't catch and finish in traffic, but if he's wide open, he can catch and dunk everything. And so I do wish that there were some more complications added into their pick and roll. So for instance, instead of just spread ball screens,

28:45maybe more sequences where Rudy is involved in a three man dribble handoff style action where there's lots of ball and player movement and he's slipping out of it so that when he catches on the roll, there's more space to operate because the defense is more warped. The defense is more challenged in the amount of action that they're trying to defend, more stack pick and roll, more situations where you try to create more separation between Rudy and the traffic around the basket. In general, I think coach Finch has done a poor job of organizing the team offensively and motivating them. So like I've actually talked about this a lot. I think Minnesota's next step after the season is to move on at the head coach and to get somebody who's a little bit more of an offensive tactician and a better motivator or at least a different voice in that locker room. So like I actually find this stuff with Minnesota to be more disappointing because of the talent. Like I look at Houston and I go, this roster is fundamentally flawed. I look at Minnesota and I go, this is a championship level roster and coach Finch is just not getting into play hard

29:46and they're playing really stupid offense and I wish that they would clean some of that stuff up. All right, a couple of spurs questions. As a spurs fan, I truly appreciate your basketball analysis and today's media that's full of hot takes and people who don't watch the games. Thank you so much for the kind words. My question is about Deer and Fox. To me, his performance is pivotal to the spurs playoff success. But his regular season performance is so far and slightly below expectation to me. I know part of the reason is that his usage is low and then he plays off ball a lot. But when he runs the offense, he is a bit careless with the ball and with his passes and his shooting is still inconsistent. And maybe I just have too high of an expectation of him or I didn't watch other teams to evaluate him in a broader context. So what's your thoughts on Fox's performance this season? And do you worry about it when it comes to the playoffs? And if he can't be the second best player on a championship team, how would his max contract affect the spurs future team building? So the important detail is that the important detail is that you have to go

30:47with what was available. It'd be great if instead of Deer and Fox, it was a higher level guard, like if it was Jalen Brunson, for example, like it'd be great if you had a better player than Deer and Fox. But the bottom line is you get what you pay for. Deer and Fox was available. He was available at a price point that was closer to actually less than what the Orlando Magic paid for Desmond Bay. So part of it is like, St. Antonio wanted to maintain flexibility for the future, but they also wanted to accelerate the timeline to match the level that Wembee was playing at. Deer and Fox to me perfectly fit that kind of middle ground in the sense that he was achievable, he was affordable relative, and he fit the skill set really well. And this is the important detail. So like when you really dig into Deer and Fox's strengths, on defense, for example,

31:47what's Deer and Fox's best strength? He's not a physical ball pressure guard who's gonna keep the ball in front all game long. They call him Swipe, he's an aggressive turnover forcing guard. That complements Victor Wemmen Yama's rim protection really well. Right? On the offensive end of the floor, he's a pick and roll player that makes it really difficult to switch, right? So like he's gonna face a lot of drop-covered style looks which is gonna unlock Victor Wemmen Yama's a roll man. And as I've talked about a lot over the course of the last few years, one of Deer and Fox's sneaky strengths is cross-court passing. And when you have a big man in Victor Wemmen Yama who has so much role-gravity going towards the rim that he's consistently drawing tags, we talked about this in the Tuesday pod. Like Victor Wemmen Yama is helping this bird generate the most corner of the reason, the history of the NBA. Who's gonna make those passes? And obviously Steph Castle can make them. Steph Castle's a very gifted passer, but Deer and Fox is one of the very best like skip cross-court passers in the league.

32:48So again, like when you dig into it and I get it, he's gonna be very expensive on this new deal. But like when you really dig into it and the way he complements Victor with his on-ball defense, the way that he complements Victor offensively is a pick and roll player and with his cross-court passing, it was like a confluence of factors that I thought made him a worthwhile risk for this first. Now as I've talked about, he's not gonna be as good as some of the guards that he goes against. If he ends up in a series with Shay, he's not as good as Shay. He ends up in a series with, if he ends up in a series with Luca, he's not as good as Luca, right? If he ends up in a series with Denver, like he may not even be as good as Jamal Murray, right? Like it's gonna be tough in the sense that he's not as good as some of the other ball handlers in the league. But the idea is if Victor ascends to the top-tier superstar level, is he fine as a number two? And I think he is, especially as a stopgap between where they are now and where Steph Castle projects to be. And I think Steph Castle projects to be a top 15 player in the league sooner than later.

33:49So I generally speaking, I think inconsistency's gonna be part of it. He's gonna have playoff games where he doesn't play super well, but the Spurs aren't incredibly dependent on him. The way that the Lakers are on Luca, the way that Oklahoma City is on a guy like Shay, it made sense to me given the trajectory the Spurs were on, the complimentary fit with Deer and Fox. And ultimately, he's gonna be the guy that the Spurs lean on a lot. I've talked about this like, I think there's a version of this story where Steph struggles on the postseason shooting the basketball, where Wembee's on ball stuff doesn't work, and he functions more as a role man. And like, you're gonna be really glad you have Deer and Fox. Even if he's not as good as some of the other guys around the league, you're gonna be really glad you have Deer and Fox when some of these playoff games slow down. And I do think from that one warrior series that we saw that he did a pretty good job getting passes initial defender and compromising the defense. Jason, I think I may watch Wembee differently because I'm five foot eight and I always had to make up for my lack of size with skill. When I watch him, I obviously see the talent, but I don't instinctively feel impressed in the same way that most people seem to.

34:50A lot of his defensive impact to me looks like geometry, huge wingspan, huge standing reach, automatic rim deterrence, unoffense things like lob gravity, finishing above the rim can also seem more tool-based than skill-based. Can you make the basketball case for what separates his actual skill processing and technique from things that are mostly a result from being 7-4 with ridiculous length? So I think, first of all, it gets complicated because one of the big pieces of it is his mobility. And if you've done any research, if you watched any of the videos, like Victor Women Yammer works extremely hard on flexibility and pliability. There are a lot of big dudes out there who are stiff, who can't move, right? I mean, there's that giant dude who plays for Florida, who like isn't even in their regular rotation because he doesn't move well enough, right? So like, having Victor Women Yammer B-7-4 is not anything unless he can be mobile, right? Like, even just look at like Christophe's poor Zingas, there's okay mobile, but he's got ridiculous size,

35:50but ever since his injury when he was younger, he hasn't been as mobile as he used to be, and so he's kind of stuck being a drop coverage big. Victor Women Yammer can fly around on the perimeter and really move. So I think he deserves a lot of credit for his overall athleticism separate from his like just measurable physical traits. Secondly, like, guys, if you're under the impression that these guys are relatable, I don't know what to tell you. Like, Steph Curry's six, three. If you guys want to go play Pick Up Bass while those of you guys who go play at your LA fitness or your pickup runner, whatever it might be, and Steph Curry showed up, you'd be like, holy shit, that dude's big. Like, everything's relative at the MBA level. So like, to me, it's okay to be like this seven, four guy running around is super impressive. Similar to like this six, nine freight train LeBron James running around is super impressive, right? Like, I'm with you that there's a skill element that gets super appealing. That's why I got like Yannis hasn't resonated as much with casual fans as outside of Milwaukee, right?

36:51But like, I think that in general in the MBA, if you're thinking that these guys are something we can relate to, like even Damien Lillard is like six, two, and can jump out of the damn gym. Like, Damien Lillard in his prime could throw the ball down through his legs, like he's an insane athlete. So I think some of us, we need to adjust our kind of vision of reality of what the MBA is like. Today's show is brought to you by a presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida's sports book. If your bracket is already busted, you're not alone, but don't worry, you can still call the next big upset and turn your picks into payday on Hard Rock Bet. All tournament long, Hard Rock Bet is rolling out daily dance and boosts, featuring a live profit boost and a parlay profit boost every single day. That's more ways to shoot your shot and cash in with boosted odds. And you know those heart-stopping zero on the clock moments, now they pay. Hard Rock Bet is giving out $25 bonus bets throughout the tournament. If a team you bet to win or cover hits a buzzer beater. If you haven't joined Hard Rock Bet yet,

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40:55season after season, mile after mile. So drive on home today. Visit toyota.com or stop by your local Toyota dealer to find out more. Toyota, let's go places. Last spurs question. What kind of conversations do you think we'll be having in June if the spurs win it all? First of all, I think we're way ahead of ourselves here. I think the spurs can win it all. I think when it can be the best player in the world, but the NBA playoffs are totally different beats. They're officiated completely differently. There's a lot of really good experience teams in the field this year. Everybody pump the brakes. Let's see what happens. But if the spurs win it all, it does get really interesting. The main thing that I think about is one, obviously, you have the Wembee trajectory stuff and what that could mean for him all time if he's that far ahead of schedule. But the second piece of it to me is like the rivalry between Oklahoma City and San Antonio. Like, Oklahoma City kind of needs to win this one because as the years go by, OK, season a later stage of their roster where they're going to have to start shedding talent soon because they have to pay everybody.

41:57San Antonio's in a phase where they still have a few years here before they're going to have to start breaking up their talent. So like if the spurs get this one, that's what gets scary for a team like Oklahoma City because as the years go by, whatever perceived talent gap is actually going to favor San Antonio over the course of the next few seasons because of where they're at in their payroll. Next question. Hey, Jason, I've been loving your analysis and personality since I found your channel. Thank you for the kind of words. Why is it that head coaches seem to be recycled more in the NBA compared to the NFL? Is it due to the specifics of each coach's ideal scheme slash system needing more specific players on the roster? And so they're given more chances with different organizations saying, hey, our roster is closer to what this coach likes to run. We don't care if he was fired. And he wasn't given a fair shake with that roster. Thank you for your time and keep up the good work. So first of all, I'm actually not 100% sure if there is, if there are what the stats are in terms of the recycling of head coaches, but I'll just accept this premise for the sake of your question. Like, let's just say separate from the NFL.

42:58Why is it that NBA coaches tend to be recycled? And I really think it comes down to the head coach in the NBA is just the easiest thing to swap out when you're looking at a situation that's not going right? So for instance, like, let's take Minnesota, for example. You have Anthony Edwards. You have Julius Randall. You have Jaden McDaniels. You have everybody go bare. You've got your core, right? And like, it's very possible that the players are flawed in some way or another. But like, once you start talking about like, should we break up this star pairing? It gets really tricky because of agency politics and how are you going to get your next star? And like, it can be a lot more of a commitment to decide to shake up your roster than it is to be like, let's change this one dude at the top who's not tied to the cap at all whatsoever. I can pay four or five coaches at a time if I fire people who cares. Like, I can easily swap a coach

44:01just by throwing money at the problem. Whereas if I make roster changes, I've got to find someone who's willing to trade for Julius Randall. I've got to potentially put draft picks on the table. It gets much more complicated changing over the roster. And so I think a lot of teams look at their situation and they go, hey, it would be easier if we just change our coach. Then you get to the point having to do with the urgency of the situation. So say you're Minnesota. Like, when you're, and we do see younger coaches get opportunities. Like, I think Boston's a great example, right? Like, they fire email you, Doka because of the scandal and they end up giving a shot to a guy like Joe Missoula and it pays off. And for the record, I think teams should do that sort of thing more. Like, let's get the guy that we think is best for our team regardless of reputation and more just look at skill set, right? But a lot of teams look at the situation and they go, okay, we've got a team that's going to compete this year.

45:01Do we want to take a shot on a young coach? Why don't we get JB Bicker staff to come in and coach the Detroit Pistons because we're on this shorter timeline and we're trying to make something happen right now. And we can't afford the risk of messing around with the younger coach. I mean, we even, like, it's even like what the Steelers going after Mike McCarthy in the NFL is actually a similar example. It's like, I think they look at it and they go like, do we want to take a risk with the younger coach or do we want to try to go with somebody that we is a known commodity in that sense? I think there's like in the NBA in particular, there's like a player buy-in part of it too that gets fascinating. So like, I think it coaches get scared if they're like, take Minnesota, for example, let's say they fire Chris Finch, they're going to be looking at the situation and they're going to go like, man, Mike and Norey might be the guy, but he's been around for a while. What if the players don't listen to him, right? And so I think it gets super easy

46:01when an experienced head coach who's been in charge of multiple franchises get becomes available for an owner to be like, let's just put this guy in there because he'll be able to step into that locker room and all those guys will at least have a certain amount or respect with him. But to your point, I don't think it should be that way. If I was running an NBA team, I would run an interview process more geared towards what you're saying, like talent fit rather than experience. And I would trust that like that coach would be able to win over the locker room with his personality and with his work ethic, not necessarily his reputation. And I'd use Joe Missoula as an example with how fast he was able to turn it over. JJ Reddick as well and with the Lakers, I think those are two good recent examples. Five more quick ones. What do you think is the Thunder's biggest weakness? They have better shooting and three good on ball guards improving from the previous biggest weakness last year and early in the season. To me, it's just their small on the perimeter. The Isaiah Hartenstein piece gives them a little more resilience on the front line. I'd add Jay Will to this as well.

47:02Jay Will has just got a big frame and him becoming a reliable three-point shooter just a better all around basketball player has made him a legitimate rotation option for them. So they're a little less susceptible in the front court than they used to be, but like, especially when they go small with chat at the center and a lot of their perimeter looks in general, they're just kind of small and thin on the perimeter. And so that makes them vulnerable to the bigger ball handlers around the league. Guys like Aunt Julius, Jane McDaniels, LeBron James, Luke Donchitch, Aaron Gordon, you know, like even Jamal Murray a little bit. Like they just have a little bit more susceptibility to like bigger, stronger perimeter players because they're not particularly big on the perimeter. The rare jazz fan here. Well, the jazz seemingly ready to do something other than tank next year. How would you approach this summer? Are there any moves you would make in preparation for playing real basketball in 26, 27 with this roster? Really interesting question. I don't wanna get too far into specific players because one, we don't know where the jazz are gonna end in the lottery yet. And so which guy they get, like whether they get a Darren Peterson or like,

48:04you know, a Darius Acuff or even if they get the number one pick, you know, we don't know what they're gonna end up with. So that makes it a little bit hard. And we also don't necessarily know who's gonna be available both via trade or restricted free agency, things like that this summer. So like we'll get into more specifics when we get into the summer. But as I dug into the payroll earlier this morning, the two main things I think they're really gonna need to look at is one, some sort of like, unscreenable perimeter defender. And then two, just overall perimeter jump shooting. And the reason why I feel that way is, if the strength of your roster is your front court and you're gonna be playing a lot of looks with Lori and Jeren Jackson and Walker Kessler, then in theory, like you're not gonna be very fast, you're gonna be big, right? So your base scheme is probably gonna involve either a lot of switching or a lot of zone because you're just gonna wanna lean towards your bigs, being able to be big and not have to cover a lot of ground,

49:05right? But you wanna have some scheme versatility. And so if you had the ability to put a specific type of guard defender on an opposing point guard, think as an archetype, think Davy on Mitchell. And Davy on's on an expiring deal next year at like 12 million. So maybe you can make a deal, who knows? But like, you have Davy on Mitchell and you go, hey dude, chase that dude around, do not switch anything, fight through every screen. That way you can keep your bigs back. That would give you some scheme versatility versus quick guards. Whereas if you're switching everything, and it's like Chiante, George, and let's say Darren Peterson gets drafted by the jazz and he's a good defender, but he's not ready to like be a shutdown chaseover screens guy yet. A quick guard could pick you to part by like targeting specific matchups or like if a team shoots the ball well enough, maybe they could pick apart your zone. You want some scheme versatility. So having some sort, and I don't know if Isaiah Collier is that guy yet.

50:06And so that's where it gets tricky. But if you have a bowling ball, unscrupible type of guard, that could go a long way towards your screen a scheme versatility. And then again, like Walker Kessler has shown some ability to shoot, but I don't think he's gonna be guarded out there. Jared Jackson is improved as a shooter, but he still doesn't get really guarded that well like a shooter. So any sort of counterbalance to your size in the form of reliable jump shooting talent would go a long way. But I personally am very excited to watch the jazz next year. As a jazz fan, you should be very excited. I'm really curious to see how Danny age rounds out the roster. That's going to be a fun team to watch next year. All right, three more quick ones. Would you ever consider having Nick Wright on the pot? We'd love to see you both on your takes on the Lakers and the NBA Playoff preview. Thanks for your time. We are working on it. And I think we're going to have it happen. So I'm not sure at which point in the next couple of weeks, there'll probably be a mix of like playoff previews, some Lakers, some, I'm curious to debate Victor, Wemme and Yama with him too. So we'll get into that when we have the chance, but I'm in touch with Nick Wright's producer

51:07and we're working on it. I think we're just more figuring out scheduling at this point. So Nick Wright will most likely be on in the next couple weeks. I'm just not sure when, when I do know I'll let you guys know. Next question. Do you guys have any desire becoming a part of an NBA team's coaching staff or broadcasting? I really appreciate your eye and knowledge of the game, keep doing great stuff for the NBA world JT. Thanks so much for the kind of words. I would love to work for an NBA team. I've talked about this before. If I actually got a legitimate opportunity to work for an NBA team that paid me well, because it just would be tough for me to give up my job to go take some entry level like, you know, work in the film room kind of thing. But that's how you do it. If you want to work for an NBA team, you got to go work in the film room and do like dirty work for a long time for a little bit of money. If you want to kind of work your way up there and like it's just, I couldn't do that and do what I do. So like, it's completely unrealistic. But I would do it if I ever got the opportunity. Like if I got an opportunity, especially like I think coaching is very perocials that's super unlikely, but even if I got an offer to go work for a front office, I would take it in like a real context,

52:08not in like some entry level context because I just want to work in the NBA and I want to be a part of a team and I'm competitive. And like, here's the thing, like my job requires me to be critical of NBA players. Otherwise, my show has no credibility. I have to be critical of NBA players, but I don't want to be, they're NBA players. You have any, as a person who played basketball my entire life, like you don't think I have an enormous amount of respect for those guys. You don't think like, think about like a player that I get have been super critical of over the years. Let's just take a random example, like Russell Westbrook, for example. I was super critical of him when he was with the Lakers. Like you don't think I was a big Russell Westbrook fan when I was young, like Russell Westbrook was like a hero of mine when I was a kid. Just like every other young basketball player. So like part of it is just the nature of my job dictates that I'm critical in answer, and I praise in a criticize. That's the nature of the profession, right? But like if I worked for a team, I wouldn't have to do that anymore. And I could channel my love for basketball, my passion for basketball tactics

53:10and all these like different intricacies. And I could channel it into a team context competitively and be a part of an ultimate goal of the team is trying to pursue. So like I would take that sort of opportunity in a heartbeat if it came up. It's just incredibly unrealistic. So like the truth is, you guys are probably stuck with me for a very long time. Last question. Hi Jason, I will need more time of you explaining why you didn't like at Astra. Keep up the great work, and thank you for all the analysis you do. Thanks again for the kind of words. So a couple of things. Like it just kind of felt like it had these weird phases. You obviously have the main plot line, which centers around the Brad Pitt psyche vows as a relationship with his father and this weird thing that's happening out at Neptune or whatever it is, right? But then you have these like weird detours, like the whole moon lander or moon rover gun scene just kind of felt like this weird separate entity, the commercial flight to the moon,

54:10the weird like SOS call where the monkey is killing all those astronauts on board that weird traveling space station. Like it just kind of felt like they were using weird plot devices to fit in some special effects. So like it kind of felt like it had some fluff and some filler that didn't make a ton of sense. Take for a counter example, like Project Hail Mary, a movie I really enjoyed. Everything felt like less like a plot device and more like like there was one clear plot device in Project Hail Mary and that was the communication piece. Like they were like here's this five minute scene where we show these basic interactions and now we just all as the audience have to accept that these dudes can talk to each other, which I had no problem with because like they tried to make a whole movie about that. It's called a rival where they dig into how complex language structure is. And if you really want to dig into that, it'll take you two hours just to do that and none of us have time for that, right? So like in the context of that movie.

55:11So I accepted that plot device more as just like a, hey, let's establish that these two people, these two beings can communicate with each other verbally so that we can watch this damn movie and not have to sit through them dealing with the chore of trying to learn how to communicate with each other, right? So like I was accepting of that plot device. And Astro felt like it was filled with lots of plot devices just to drop in certain special effects. Whereas Project Hail Mary aside from that one language plot device, everything felt like it was moving the plot forward in a really genuine way. And so it just felt like it had some filler. It wasn't my favorite Brad Pitt part. Like I'm a huge Brad Pitt fan. My wife had this comment, I thought it was funny. She was like, she's like, this is the kind of part that like Ben Affleck should have done. I was dying laughing because like, there's not a whole lot of expression. Everything's very deadpan, which is like right up the Ben Affleck alley, whereas Brad Pitt has a lot more range and what he can show emotionally and that sort of thing. So like, and he just has more of a cool factor.

56:13So like it was kind of a weird part for Brad too. And then the story was kind of like anticlimactic as well when they get to the end. So like, just one of my favorite movie, I gave it a second shot. I love sci-fi too. I'm not going to see her and act like I didn't and still enjoy parts of the movie. It's just the visuals and things like that. But like it was a distant last place compared to a lot of those like whether it was the movie with Matt Damon on Mars like that one, the Martian or even a rival or Project Hail Mary, you know, the I just thought that those movies were far better than that, Astro. All right, guys, that's all I have for today. As always, this is really a percent you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. I hope all of you guys have a wonderful weekend. I'll see you guys on the month. This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Okay, Artbees just casually pulled up with the deal that feels a little too good. I've got this new meat and three box for $7.99 and honestly it's stacked with Arby's quality favorites

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