Build Secure Attachment to God Through Psychology and Scripture - Dr. Geoff & Cyd Holsclaw

0:00You're listening to the Counterculture Mom Show. Our kids are under fire every day, with the media and pop culture persuading them to give up their faith and Christian values. Stay tuned now as former Hollywood actress and pop culture expert Tina Griffin helps you counter these messages and safely navigate today's pop culture chaos. Studies show a rising widespread lack of inner peace, with 39% of adults worldwide reporting high levels of daily worry. Roughly one in three people globally feel they lack balance in life while in the US 25% seldom or never experienced deep spiritual peace. Wow, it's staggering. In landscapes of the soul, Sid and Jeff Holsclaw draw on the science and spirituality of attachment theory, biblical wisdom and the language of spiritual formation to show us why Christians tend to get stuck spiritually and how to get unstuck and move forward. This is the Counterculture Mom Show and your whole Tina Griffin.

1:00We are dissecting anxiety this week with Dr. Jeff and Sid Holsclaw, co-directors of the Center for Embodied Faith. Hey, welcome back for part two. How you doing? Long time no see. It's going to be back. We're so glad to be here. Oh my gosh. This is what's nuts. And this has never happened in the history of doing this program yet. Go down almost five years. I never had a time where I had a double header episode with somebody where I forgot that I had a double header episode. So the second I said goodbye to you too, I was calling two or three people saying, oh my gosh, episode one, absolutely fantastic where these people come from. And then I opened my show folder to final who's next and it's you two again. And I'm like, yay, and oh my gosh, where did they go? So thank you for jumping back in the mix. If you guys watching right now did not hear episode one, go there first because it sets the foundation for where we're going to dissect today, especially Sid with your trauma from the past, losing your father in a car accident. All of you as a family car accident when you are a year and a half years old.

2:00And then your mother right before you got married. So a lot happening where you would respond massively the wrong way with anxiety anytime something is happening that was out of your control, basically. And I know a lot of people can relate to what you said in episode one. So watch that. We're going to dive right in here with episode two. I'm so glad you're back because that episode went by way too fast. You both co-authored, does God really like me another book and you co-host the attaching to God podcast and co-direct the Center for Embodied Faith before we dive into a couple of our questions here. Can you expand more on what is the Center for Embodied Faith? Yeah, it is. We really believe that when we look at how God has created us and how the revelation he's given to us in scripture, that those things really align. And so we look at the book of creation as well as the book of scripture, Bible study and brain science.

3:00And just the thing is that I talk to medical experts and neuroscientists of faith. And they all say the same thing is that science today is just catching up to the wisdom that God had already given to us in scripture so long ago. So we're really trying to combine the best of what we know about how God has made the brain in the body and then also the best ways of understanding scripture and spiritual formation and discipleship. And so that's what the Center for Embodied Faith is doing. Just phenomenal. And just to throw it out there in the mix right away, if we want to support and donate to your cause, what does that funding help you do? And we can donate by going to the support tab top of the page. I'm telling you, if people tune in to episode one, they'll know exactly why I want to get behind you on this. Where does this funding go and what does it allow you to do? Yeah, well, we are really trying to start new initiatives to get training out more. So the funding would go towards scholarship programs to help reduce the cost for pastors, but as well as other people just kind of everyday Christians who are seeking more of this training. It helps us create more of the resources.

4:01We have a free resource, how God made the brain. And so just creating more of the resources at a low cost or for free is what all that support will be doing for us. This is just fantastic. Your free resource also on your website embodied faith dot life that's embodied faith dot life. Get our free ebook, the amazing brain God gave us. That's what you're giving away. Thank you so much. Everybody has to sign up for that, but I'm telling you, so many people are impacted by anxiety that we can't give if we don't have it for constantly in the state of fear, paralyzed either in our mind, our body, we can't do what God's calls to do. So you are literally helping us be connected with God in a deep level to be able to do the calling that he has called us to do on the face of this planet. And right now everybody needs to get busy. So thank you, massive calling, and now we're going to dive in deep. Say can you tell us you briefly ended episode one talking about the importance of joy? What is and how is joy tied to getting rid of anxiety?

5:04Yeah, well, so when we unpack how attachment happens, which is the relationship that kids have with their caregivers, right, how they sort of become attached to their parents, really the biggest thing that's important in a secure attachment is a foundation of a joyful connection between the child and the parent. So if you think about it, you know, when you're expecting a baby and you're anticipating the arrival date, when the baby is finally born, the way that God designs it to be, the whole family is so thrilled to finally meet the baby, right, to have like faces light up with joy and smiles and seeing this newborn child. And it's the strength of that joyful connection where, you know, if a baby is upset, dirty diaper, crying, hungry, whatever it is, that's like a rupture or a place where the baby is leaving the joyful connection because they need to protect themselves so they're crying to get attention. But then as soon as the baby has been comforted and held, the diaper has been changed, the baby has been fed. It's a return back to that joyful connection where the parents are glad to be with the baby,

6:06the baby is glad to be with the parents. That's also the way that God designed us to be with him. He's glad to be with us. When there are ruptures or distress in our lives, we are designed to be able to remember that God is with us. He promised to never leave us, to never forsake us. He's glad to be with us. And when we can return to that joy, we can return back to that sort of sense of shalom that calm, that peace. And so we even see that in the blessing that God gave to Aaron, the first high priest, to speak over the people of Israel in the book of numbers where he said, the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord's face shine upon you. That's that joy, his gladness to be with and be gracious to you. And then the Lord turned his face toward you as sort of that returning back to joy when you have gone away. And then God turns his face toward you as a way of sort of welcoming you back home again and give you peace. And so it's that same way that that's what God's desire for us is, is this foundation

7:11of a joyful connection. And the more we understand that and the more we practice that joyful foundation, the more capacity we have to deal with the distress and the anxiety and the disruption of that and return back to it. That makes complete sense. More joy equals less dirty diaper. Yeah. I will never forget what you said with that. You have a really good way, both of you, on giving a really clear picture on what you don't want on you or in you. And right now if we get rid of the poop and our lives and focus on what the problem is, we have a connection back with the Lord. Very interesting way of the way you do it, but it makes it very memorable. How can Jesus quiet our anxious and avoidant faith? Yeah. Well, so there's not really an easy answer to that. So we have to back up to, well, how did we get this anxious or avoidant faith in the first place? And so we, we talk about how we have run experiments our whole lives, little kids run experiments. How does life work?

8:12How do I work? How do my parents work it? And in the earlier episode we talked about intimacy and independence. And these are two kind of developmental pathways where we run experiments. So think of a kid who's sitting in a high chair and they just throw their bottle off the high chair to see what happens, right? How does, how does gravity work? And, you know, and then the other brother laughs, oh, that's fun. But then mom doesn't. Right? And then you do it again. You do it again. Well, if I keep doing this, what's going to happen? So you're exercising your independence, throwing your bottle off the high chair, but you're also scanning your intimacy as mom upset or she not upset about this, is she laughing or is she giving me a stern face? And so we all learn how our lives work by running these kind of experiments. And so Jesus comes along and he says, you need to start running new experiments. So this is his call to faith as he comes and he says, repent and believe you have to run new experiments to find out a new way, not a sinful way, but a faithful way of understanding how intimacy with God and with others and with your self work and how this thing called

9:15independence or freedom or agency, how that's supposed to work in the world. And so Jesus calls us to faith. And so we have to then start relying on God a bit by bit in ways that maybe we didn't know how to do. So we, if we're someone in the desert, like we talked about the last episode, I'm very independent. I want to do things myself. I don't want to ask for help. And so what do I have to do? I have to buy faith, start asking God for help. I have to start being honest about my disappointments, my frustrations, my anger's and my sadness. And I have to bring those to God in a way that I have avoided. But then someone in the jungle, the anxiety, hypervigilant, they have to have faith that God's word is true, that what God has said God will do. They have to start kind of exercising those logical linear skills of saying that if God has done it, I need to stand firm. I have to be convinced of that truth. And so there's different things that we need to work on, different steps of faith, different steps of obedience we have to do to follow Jesus as the good shepherd into the pasture.

10:17But before we can even do that work, we talked a little bit in the last episode about the connection and protection priority that God gave us both of those. And the stuff that Jeff's talking about is really the stuff that you can work through when you're already in a state of connection. And so one other thing that's really important is that we follow a God who came in a body to live our lives with us and to be able to be seen and known and touched and under, like he could understand us. So he has entered into our weakness. He knows this world that we live in and he understands what makes us anxious and he understands all the things that are complex in our life and he comes to us and says, I have compassion for you. I'm touching, even those that are untouchable, I am touching you in your illness, I'm touching you in your weakness and I'm saying, do you want to be well, right? So it's that sense of Jesus meets us right where we are with compassion and with curiosity. And that connection is that gladness to be with, which then gives us the resourcefulness

11:20to be able to do some of the running new experiments like Jeff is saying. That's phenomenal. And you have such a calming voice and I believe in episode one, you said Jeff that she actually had the voice and in the audio book, correct for landscapes of the soul, yes. Yep. Okay. So if you want to jump on Spotify or Audible or wherever, you can listen to her, talk about the read the whole book. You have a phenomenal voice calming where someone that might be stuck or anxiety written would want to listen and it would literally help him calm down from their anxiety just by the tone of your voice literally is just wild. Before we go to a commercial break, this is a phenomenal reminder verse for everybody as Philippians four, six through seven, do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation by prayer and petition with Thanksgiving, present your request to God and the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in

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13:22Did you know that the average child asks over two hundred questions a day? That's exactly why Lauren Holland created Tiny Revival, a faith-based children's clothing brand that brings Bible stories to life, running your kids, PJs, play a tire and blankets. Tiny Revival makes one of a kind faith-inspired fashion that's buttery soft and ethically produced by fair wage partners. Every design begins with original watercolor artwork. Then becomes a meaningful piece or child can wear, love and learn from. And the best part, each purchase supports the fight against human trafficking. From the best selling Noah Zark romper to the David and Goliath PJs, these pieces don't just look beautiful, they spark real conversations about faith. If you want something meaningful, ethical and creative from a mother's heart, visit tiny revival.com and use cotina at checkout for an exclusive discount. Again, get a great deal using cotina at tiny revival.com, tiny revival, every threat of testimony, every purchase, a step toward freedom. Alright, coming back in from commercial break, I got to see first hand, it's like when

14:26a couple works together to decide who does what question you guys rock. Jeff, I figure up first, how can we incorporate practices for building our security with God? Well, you know, in the book, we talk about how, you know, there's these very typical kind of Christian spiritual practices that are good for everyone to do, but they do different things in different people. So something like scripture reading is really important or a scripture memorization and how, but somebody who is in the desert, God's going to meet them in scripture through kind of through the intellect, through kind of the deep studying. And you know, they maybe even really like to study the Bible because that's kind of like how they're wired and God's going to meet us there, which is really important. But then there's this idea that maybe we need to grow and push into things that are more like relational kind of focus. So maybe it's the Psalms or we're just kind of instead of reading a whole bunch, maybe we just read a little bit and really reflect on the verse. But somebody who's coming from the jungle, you know, they often don't get a lot out

15:31of reading the Bible. That it's hard to focus. It's hard to kind of like really kind of feast on scripture. So, but God meets them there too. And kind of gives them words of encouragement and you speak some way of the spirit. There's also or just even like silence and solitude for some like spiritual disciplines is we just kind of talk about over and over how the same practice can do different things to different people. You could think of public worship or like songs. So there's for your listeners, maybe there's not as much a divide as there was 20 years ago. But you get like the old kind of like hymns only kind of perspective, the doctorally true kind of songs. And then you get the other kind of very emotional, expressive kind of songs. And those are those songs are good. Both of them, both kinds, right, because somebody in the desert who loves the doctrine and the intellect, they want to sing those hymns or those songs that have robust kind of doctrine. But sometimes they need to sing songs that stir or speak about like really loving God or how God's really there with the and then the reverse for someone in the jungle who

16:34loves to really passionate or emotional kind of vibrant worship. Sometimes they just need to try to true doctrine. That is just true about God no matter how I feel. And so that's where kind of the typical practices we think of as being a Christian, we should keep doing, but we need to think about, well, what's, how is this growing the pastor in us? Yes. And I was going to say, and then Sid, I know you have thoughts on that as you're describing that. I'm almost seeing like two people with completely different personality traits. Like when you said it's hard for the person in the jungle to focus and read the word of God, I'm thinking, yeah, because they're on vines swinging from tree to tree. They probably have ADD and then you're the person in a desert from episode one that you said usually says it's not their fault as someone else is that's because they have nothing to look at and they're blaming everybody else instead of internally looking at what their own problems are. Something in narcissists in the desert and ADD, crazy person needs a lord in the jungle. I don't know. I'm probably putting a Tina twist that's totally not what you're talking about and you do

17:36dissect it in your book. Well, those are sort of extremes. Yeah. But yeah. Well, I think you're kind of getting into the reason why we call it the book is called Landscapes of the Soul is we're trying to build actually compassion for ourselves and for others is that we have the survival strategy that we have because we've learned to adapt to the environment that we were raised in. So it's not just that I woke up and I wanted to have a scrambled brain and I'm just totally focused on my relationships all the time, but I was kind of like shaped and formed into that because of the relational environment that I was in and other people didn't just want to be shut down and unemotional, they didn't choose that one day, right? They were adapting to the environment. So we really use that imagery to certainly to create understanding, but also to build compassion of like, oh, it makes sense that I have these strengths and these weaknesses. And it also makes sense that someone else has very different strengths and very different weaknesses because they've kind of been shaped by the environment that they came from. Makes complete sense. I was actually going to say, does it depend on how the upbringing, what happened to you,

18:39your environment, your influences, your friends, if you're a single child, not, there's so many different things. And then God has a sense of humor by saying, you too, yep, you're both getting married and you're like, is this for your enjoyment, Lord, because this is wild. Every anniversary, we should be absolutely like praising God that we made it in just normal and great and said you wanted to make a comment earlier on something that Jeff was saying. Yeah, just, you know, some other practices, which Jeff is talking are those sort of like more familiar spiritual disciplines, but you know, another thing that can be really helpful is just to learn to start paying attention to yourself. And so even just noticing, when I'm going about my day, what are the things that do feel unsettling to me and getting curious about that, like what are the reactions that I'm having? And how can I kind of reflect on those and help to understand why that reaction makes sense? And then once I understand why that reaction makes sense to receive, you know, the compassion of Jesus who meets me there and says, yeah, that makes sense that you react that way.

19:42And then how can I reorient myself to live into the reality that, you know, God is glad to be with me and He's given me everything I need to be able to live this life in a way that is, you know, Jesus came to give life to the full now, not just wait until heaven. And so what are the ways that I can reorient myself toward that life that He gives now and that would be the running new experiments or trying new things? And then how do I sort of practice and rehearse those all the way until they become my new responses instead of those old reactions? We're a well-funded Christian entertainment company. This making world-class games for children. And what we're doing is unique because we're building top-notch gaming content that competes with the top of the stuff on the App Store, but that contains God's truth. Whether it's games that are biblical or games that come out of a new world we've created called the Rimmers. I was looking out at the world and I got bothered by a few things. Anxiety, suicide and depression rates are all time highs for children, which exactly parallels the rise of social media on smartphone. I noticed that for the first time in American history, less than half of Americans go to church.

20:45While over 60% of people in this country over 40 believe in God that for children, what's only 32%. As a parent and I'm a parent and there's a lot of parents out there that we hear this from that want the true-play solution, there's nowhere they can take their kids to deliver them high-quality entertainment, some of them they're actually going to enjoy and use, but that also contains God's truth, that contains the values that they hold dear. Head over to TruplayGames.com to learn more. For over six years I've been selling the alarm regarding the dangers of EMF exposure, primarily coming from the towers that were implemented during the pandemic. I've interviewed countless experts on the show that confirmed my research. Besides harmful 5G radiation, we are constantly bombarded with EMF exposure from Wi-Fi routers, smartphones, laptops, smart appliances, all contributing to massive sleep issues, headaches, fatigue, nausea, dizziness, brain fog, heart palpitations, and even increased cancer risk. I've been using two waveguard devices for over six years.

21:47I have the key home, which gives me whole home protection and the key shield when I'm on the go. Waveguard uses depolarization technology to significantly reduce EMF radiation. Without blocking your Wi-Fi or cell signal, protect your family now. Use Coatina et Chaco to save 20% off all devices at waveguard.com. That's waveguard.com Coatina. So there's three critical things we have to wrap up with you, too. And I'm going to put you speed down on my phone so whenever I'm anxiety-written, even if it's three in the morning, I'm calling you guys. You'll be ready. But we may not answer at three in the morning, because you're not anxiety-written, because you've read your own book that you wrote. We have to make sure people absolutely check out your website, grab your book, and everybody now by the part two, and that was exactly why I think we need to get behind this phenomenal couple and donate to their cause to help more people get rid of their anxiety and point them to the Lord. So you're doing phenomenal work. Stop your book. It's a must.

22:47Once again, everybody, on Amazon five-star landscapes of the soul, how the science and spirituality of attachment can move you into confident faith, courage, and connection. We absolutely have to get our hands on that. And then your website, embodied faith.life, you can sign yourself up, sign a spouse up, sign your children up to get their free e-book, the amazing brain God gave us. Tell us more about that e-book. What's in it? Well, I'm really trying to take the best of Lisa Filman-Barritt and her work on the brain and just kind of relating into the story of Scripture and kind of just showing that, you know, like God has made this wonderful thing, our brain, our body, how it all fits together, and then how it's leading us more and more into his presence. Fantastic. Okay. And can we bring you in to speak? We are available on the website. There is a place to link for speaking engagements where you can fill out a form and let us know what you're interested in having us. There's retreats. Well, that is a no-brainer. I really think people need to have you come in and speak and do like a two-day intensive

23:51weekend deal. Let's talk. We can like, drop a bomb together and do a tour. You two were absolutely phenomenal. And once again, quick reminder, if you'd like to donate to their cause to help more people, just go to embodied faith.life and click on the support tab top of the page and give there a 501c3 watch all four episodes this week of the counterculture mom show at counterculturemom.com. Watch it and then share it because everybody receiving these episodes this week will be helped in some capacity. If not themselves, there's spouse, children, parents, neighbor, pastor. You name it. You two rock. I'm watching you. Keep it up. Counterculture Ministries is able to pump out life-giving content each week on this program because of our faithful donors. Thank you if you're currently a partner with us. For anyone who is watching or showing as being helped in some way through this ministry, would you help us by jumping on board as a monthly donor? If everyone who tuned in each week could donate five bucks a month, it would allow us to stay on the air.

24:52That's it. Five bucks. To be transparent, we are growing faster than we can handle. But God, right? This is where the body of Christ joins forces. God told me back and made us say yes to any new opportunities to share his truth with a little time that we have left. You are helping us save humanity with the topics we address on this show. But with that comes airtime costs. Our overhead is $40,000 a month for production and airtime costs. We need your help. If you love what we're doing, our ministry team is asking that you partner with us by heading over to our website at counterculturemom.com and click on the pink donate button at the top of the page. It's a tax write-off and any amount helps. And we're hoping our audience family can do at least five dollars a month. And if that happens, the needs of this program will be met. Time is short. Let's do this. Thanks for joining us for the counterculture mom show. With your host, Tina Griffin. For over two decades, Tina has traveled the globe exposing how pop culture is glamorizing harmful behaviors without showing the consequences and how these messages are wreaking havoc on

25:56today's youth. Through radio, TV, podcasts, and our app, counterculture ministries is reaching millions every week with a biblically based message for hope for today's teens and their parents. But we can't do that without your faithful prayer and financial investment. If you appreciate the ministry of Tina and counterculture ministries, would you prayerfully consider a generous gift right now? We have a donor matching dollar for dollar. You can give securely online by visiting counterculturemom.com or by texting the word donate to the number 55444, that's counterculturemom.com or text the word donate to the number 5544. Every dollar is doubled. If you love this show, you can stay up to date on the latest critical issues affecting your family. By catching all of our weekly episodes with resource links, signing up for our eNewsletter and downloading our counterculture mom app where you get timely pop culture alerts, visit counterculturemom.com for more details and be sure to join us next week for another

27:01edition of the counterculture mom show with Tina Griffin, where we are rewriting Hollywood script for our kids.