Bitcoin as Freedom Money in Zambia

0:00Today, I'm excited to welcome Paul Simmertendet to the podcast. Paul is founder of Bitcoin Campus in Zambia, educating university students through meetups, workshops, and grassroots Bitcoin education. Welcome to the Bitcoin Edge, Paul. It's good to be here. I've always wanted to be on the show, so it's great that I finally get my chance. Well, it's really good to meet you, and I'm glad you watched the show. I know that often we focus on the USA and many other Western countries, but as you know, I have a connection to Zambia, Zambia, and I'm very interested in what's going on there. So tell us a little bit about yourself and what led you to Bitcoin. Okay, so my name is Paul Simmertendet, but I usually use the short version, which is Paul Simmer. And I'm the founder, or rather one of the founders of Bitcoin Campus Zambia,

1:03it's a steadily initiative that just focuses on educating university students all about Bitcoin, how to adopt it, use it, and in any way that you choose to incorporate Bitcoin in your lifestyle. So a bit about myself. I stumbled upon Bitcoin first way back in 2017. I was through my dad, and fast forward, though I disregarded it at the time, and I am fast forward a few years later, 2024. Through the community, Bitcoin Victoria 4s, I was able to now actually go through another course that made me understand it more clearly. And since I were advocating more adoption and using it day to day, it opened a new perspective, because when I learned about it, I was more of, you can make money on crypto. You can make money then I saw a Bitcoin is too expensive to buy. And disregarded it, and through Bitcoin Victoria 4s, I am free, I was able to now break it down properly, explain it. You don't need a lot of money to start. You can start with more safe, safe, safe. And I've seen the benefits. I've seen the benefits through doing that,

2:05and through the benefits that I saw from the course, it later lead me to create a similar thing when I'm compassing some student or so. I thought a lot of students can benefit if they knew what I know. And if they can find a way to put Bitcoin in their lives now, it will initially benefit them. So from there, Bitcoin compass, Zanger was born, and we're taking our way in the space, trying to make it difficult. Get for you. Yes. Good for you. So tell us a little bit about the benefits, because if you found Bitcoin in 2024, as far as price goes, we're sort of in the same price level, what are the benefits for you? So the major one that I actually got to enjoy was accepting Bitcoin as a payment, and it opening up the payment channels. It's quite difficult to make payments with international transactions, because most of us at the edge where we don't think about bank accounts, they're too costly.

3:05The maintenance fees, I know that's why you find you want to buy something on Amazon. You have to source for someone who can actually afford to have a bank account and use their account to pay. And on top of that, you're buying something for $50. You end up spending $70 because of the fees. So with Bitcoin after Bitcoin Victoria Force, educated us, showed us where you can learn jobs. But the first thing that I did was leverage the skills that I have, which was offered to create a website for them since at the time they didn't have one, and they said we can only pay you in Bitcoin shortening. So I got to experience the first ever Bitcoin transaction through receiving the payment. And from there on, I saw how easy it was, you know, how easy and quick it was, and the value also benefited a lot. So from that experience, I was like, OK, look, we've got more people on campus that actually better programmers than me, who have got businesses. What if they can start accepting Bitcoin? Initially, because when I first did the cost, it was at $70.

4:06Then over time, we did go up to the maximum, which was like $125,000. So because they had accepted Bitcoin payments and I had some sets, I got to see how it benefits you to have Bitcoin stars somewhere. So from there, I look at students, if someone can open and account in their first year, and hold all the way up to graduation five years later, they wouldn't initially just see the growth, rather than just earning and spending earnings, if you earn, say a little, forget about it, earn, you start. So for Zambia, it's really beneficial as a serving platform, and I wanted most students to see it in that way, rather than the perspective that Zambians are about, it's that crypto is a scam. Bitcoin is a scam. Those things don't work here. They only work in the USA. So we're trying to cure that narrative and show the amount to incorporate it in their day-to-day lives. That's what's driving me. Just cure that. It's a scam mindset and show them how to use it according to your envisioning. Don't follow what everyone else is doing.

5:09Yeah. Yeah. Good advice. Make your own path. So what you're saying is you realized how much better Bitcoin payments were than the traditional ways, which are taking high fees out of either the bank accounts or even the mobile money, and the coin is much lower fees. We do have the issue of volatility. How do you educate people on the volatility? I know you said hold it till you graduate. That's that's one way. Have a four or five year time frame. Is there anything else you tell people? Yes, when the show of volatility we always try to emphasize like don't look at this as a get rich quick scheme or plan what? Look at it as a long-term service. If you're going to focus on the short price movements, if you see it spikes, you want to withdraw and convert your heart. You initially lose out because the price is going to be,

6:10you know, we get emotional attachment. It will continue to just give you an index. So we recommend that excess money that you have, stash it and just forget about it. No matter what news is going on, Bitcoin has proven to yes drop, but even with the price drops, it's initially going up over time. So we always just reassure them don't lose hope. Just stack it and wait. If you first back to from 2017, where we are, they fired, bought back then and held up to this low, it's gained value. It's gained value. So you can't really discover someone. We just told them don't, don't be influenced too much about the price. Just look at it as a safe way to save up and hold your money. Because another thing that I noticed through the African Bitcoin website, they've got this game like a reflection simulator, where I put in a price of $7,000, $10,000 ago

7:10and if I saved less than the same amount, $10,000, or $10,000 in Bitcoin, to 2025, that $10,000 in the bank would have lost like 96% of its value. Then Bitcoin had gained like $1,000 plus in 10 years. So that's okay. This is better than putting it in a bank. You've got a 10-year savings account useless in a bank. In Bitcoin, beneficial initials. So we always give them those, we push them towards that direction of savings and not don't stray, don't be a forex trader at Bitcoin, just hold here. Yeah, that's a very good point. Inflation is one of the reasons that many of us wake up to Bitcoin. What is inflation like in Zambia at the moment and is this part of your education? Yes, like although people think it's so bad, we usually tell them like, Zambia might not have the worst inflation rate compared to other countries,

8:11but even the little we have, it's still affecting us deeply, because if you look back, if I can trust you as far back knowing I had a great understanding of what money is, the furthest I can go back is 2014. 2014 we used to get a pack of sugar, a 2 kg pack of sugar at 5 quatch. As we speak today, we are getting that same pack of sugar, 35. And it's only been like, if sure, a few years. So I give them this example of look, you might earn more, but eventually over the years, your money buys you less. You can make your 10,000 per month, but that 10,000 initially only buys you things with 5. The rest you lose it to inflation. So we are always highly emphasized that Bitcoin is a safe haven against inflation, because it's halving over time. You can't add more to the system. You're having less on this, and once you've got less, you definitely have to find a way to spit it evenly amongst everyone, making sure everyone gets an equal price,

9:12which is the safest way to fight inflation. When I'm talking about inflation with the students, I give an example of a loaf of bread. A loaf of bread here has like 27 slices. So I'm saying, if you live in a house of 5 people, you only have one loaf. You have to find a way to divide it so that everyone gets an equal share. If more people show up, from that same one loaf of bread, you still have to divide it to accommodate that's how Bitcoin is. You can't just go and buy and add more. You have to work with what you have, and initially, no matter how small it is, it's going to be with more. Because you understand that there's no more. This is what we have, and we have to work with this. So, inflation is a topic that we always, me and my friend Kagan, whenever we are teaching about this, we always tell them, watch out for inflation. Don't feel you're safe. No matter whether you're earning, they feel like, okay, if I earn in USD, I'm safe. Like, no, whether you're earning in USD, as long as you're in the country, inflation will still hit you.

10:12So it's better, your money is something that no government can control. You're safe, you're safe. That's true. And, you know, now we have AI, and many people talk about deflation, because AI and technology should bring the cost of things down, and that might happen for some goods. But either way, even if some goods go down, most of us are going to be dealing with inflation, and also Bitcoin is better money. It's just a better way to transact, right? I mean, we've been using this old money system. We all have different money in every country. And now, Bitcoin is a quick way that we can make payments across countries. You could be working for somebody in America and get a Bitcoin payment for a website you built. And that's much fairer to everybody involved,

11:12rather than trying to do the exchanges, over the banks. So, that's another big benefit of Bitcoin. What are some of the challenges that you have faced when talking to students about Bitcoin? Initially, the first, like I already stated, these are the minds that what somebody has have of Bitcoin and then the other thing to do with crypto and internet money scale. Because, even when it became popular in the country, it's the news of it broke. A lot of scammers were quick to utilize it. And in running these scams, they were like, no, if you give us a 10,000 question, we are going to give you back a 50, tomorrow, how? We'll be trading in Bitcoin. First of all, go online. Search about Bitcoin. See the value. Oh, yes, yes, yes. So, if these guys are dealing in Bitcoin, it must be true. Then, it will get scammed. Then, when they hear it next from someone else, they are completely against, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is a scam. I don't want to be involved. So,

12:12the challenge was killing that mindset. We had to make sure we educate them the right way of making sure that, look, it's only a scam when you get involved without understanding it. That's when people can take advantage of you. But, if you take the time, or more to, as a community, we actually say, education first, then adoption. So, first, learn about it, understand it, then find a way to incorporate it in your life. That's what we always say. So, we had to kill that mindset from there on, as things went on, the next challenge we found was, now people know about, now students know about Bitcoin. Everyone has something to offer. How do we earn? I don't want to buy on to be earning it. Where can I find jobs? So, that was the next scram when I got it. People are learning. We need to find a way to make them more involved in the space. So, we're always looking after, you know, Bitcoin job platforms, you can, you know, sell yourself here, freelance there, offer services there. We tried to connect with other communities so that if they find an opportunity, choose yourself and find a way from the other Bitcoin

13:12communities. That was the second challenge then. We also had a bit of challenges with the school. You know, they also were scared initially are crypto things. Until just, guys being controlled by some organization that wants to take advantage of students, we had to never get that. But eventually, they understood our mission and they were, on board, they actually offered the opportunity to be a school club, offered us a facility to customers we can use. And that really helped. That really helped a lot because we had to cut down costs of always renting a space when we were going to have meetups and other activities. Yes. It's been a crazy journey. Or a lot of challenges. Some of them, more personal than community related cause for me, I add to what list. Step out, step back for a bit because of health challenges and I kind of powered all the responsibilities on my co-founder, Kieger, and he also worked, he was burnt out. He was burnt out. He was burnt out. Generally class, the community answering questions,

14:12teaching codes. Then I saw that, okay, this one, this is of our teammates help. So we tried out this to adjust these challenges that we faced. And make sure we, we see, we see a bright side of everything. And it's really been, it's been a tough journey, but the support has been there, making it easier for us as a new community. We got a lot of support from their experience, big cleaners and communities. You did mention a lot of the challenges, but for people who don't have extra income, or don't have, you know, have limited internet and limited devices, what is your suggestion for them? So another benefit that made it easier for that in that part, and it was me having gone through the education from Bitcoin Victoria for the actually, gave me beforehand some of the best platforms that make it easier for people to earn, save, stack, and interactive Bitcoin. So going into the community, we already are aware of Mochancura, which is the USSD

15:12platform that makes it, you know, easier for people to interact with Bitcoin without internet connections. So we had already taught them about that. We have got to blink, blink, has proven to be the most easy wallet for them to adjust to before they understand the whole self-custodial thing and while they're still dealing with small amounts, we monitor them. All those active, you know, trying to earn, as they are earning the usual report. Today, I did this job with this and this and this and this. They paid me a hundred thousand cents. How do I put it in my blink? You know, they are sending it on-chain. So you interact with such students, guide them, and you know, tell them all about it. Then you eventually have to check in, making sure how much I holding in your blink. No, I'm risen. If we feel like the amount is too large, we now tell them what is best, if you open, so that you are holding your own keys, holding your own keys, so they understand it better or that was for those that have got small, you know, these small phones,

16:12we call them, we call them, press me hard because of the buttons. So for those we recommend just use my chancura. It's to the same thing that you are can access with blink on it. You want to even notice a difference. Because my chancura offers versus bit-review. They can top up their air-time by data, you know that even with just without internet, so much chancura has proven very beneficial in that department. We don't really feel that impact over the low internet and internet struggles because of them. Then blink has made it easier to own boards, to own board students and get them to actually interact with the wallet. Because they don't have to worry about the keys and all that security. And even though they change more phones, blink makes it easier to restore your audio. Well, I think we lost Paul for a second. This often happens when I interview people in Africa the internet connections are unstable.

17:12And I'm sure he'll come back. And we will discuss these different options. As you can tell, the onboarding of bitcoin in Africa is a completely different way. They face challenges. We don't face. In some countries, especially Zimbabwe, there's no on-ramp, and they have to find these ways like much in Kura. I believe it was developed in South Africa as a way to buy bitcoin not on the internet. And I myself haven't had to use it. But I was hoping to hear more from Paul about how they do use it. But suffice to say that I feel very lucky to be in the US and that we don't have these issues. But I'm glad that people over there are finding ways to educate and help people in other countries

18:13get onboarded to bitcoin with the different wallets. And then, as they get better and get more bitcoin, they move on to other more self-secure wallets, like he mentioned, blue wallet, blue wallet, and then the next step, obviously, would be self-custody. But there's no point buying a $100 or $300 wallet if you only have small amounts of bitcoin in the beginning. So for them, it's really a journey and we all on our own bitcoin journey doesn't look like Paul is managing to come back. But we will chat with him again and just really happy to see bitcoin adoption in Zambia, a country that really needs it. As you can hear, the bank fees are really high. And I've heard about these fees all over the world. I spoke with Adam Hudson yesterday

19:13and he mentioned his bank in Cyprus was charging $25 a month just because he wasn't using it enough. And that happens in many countries. I know in the U.S. if you hold a certain amount of money, you don't get charged that fee. And so most people here think that's pretty good. Well, it is pretty good, except our money is not really our money in the banks. And it definitely isn't their money in the banks over there. So, I will talk to Paul again. I hope that you got a lot out of this and I really appreciate you being here and supporting people all over the world because, as the nodes, oh, there's Paul. Sorry about that. Talking about Internet challenges, they eat me. Yes, I had to switch with it probably. Yeah, I know what it's like. I know what it's like. Ah! That's crazy.

20:13That's okay. I'm just happy to hear what you are doing over there and how you are helping students to understand Bitcoin. Would you say that once they go through your course and once they understand a little bit about the history of money, inflation, payments, and Bitcoin that they tend to keep moving forward adopting Bitcoin? What I've noticed because so far, we've had two core hearts, so not really a lot of students have gone to the group like 60, the first one we graduated 25, the second one around the same number. So we've got like 60 people who are actively who have learnt and are actively trying to get more involved. Once they learn, they show signs of wanting to know more. One thing that makes them try to go back to the odd theories is when they can't find ways to earn. Because we've noticed no matter what, they are not going to put in money as in food buy, Bitcoin,

21:13they would rather earn it and stack out. So if we don't actively try to give them opportunities to earn it, they tend to lose interest. But so long as you keep them active, you know, keep them involved, they tend to stick to it. And want to learn more, always you got to learn more with that. So when we went for a trip, because we try, by all means, we have a microphone in the kitchen to keep them engaged. So through the help of another community here in Osaka, which is Bitcoin Zanga, they were able to get us as students, take us to a many facility, show us all the process of our Bitcoin's mind, the mind has there to explain. From that trip, the few students are, I would love to do this. So drive off to buy the ASIC maintenance. So now we start to guide in that direction. There are others through other collaborations we had when we were learning about Nostra, and though that, we had this, this company, Yakihon, which offered, you know, to teach us. And from there, Yakihon, they have got this whole structure thing, where they keep checking in on our communities

22:13every Sunday, they have a life call. I've seen most of our students actively attending those life calls. And over time, Yakihon offers them jobs. No, if you are good at computing, if you can notice, this, this, this, we are looking for someone too. So some are jumping towards that. And we are letting them do that, you know, if you feel like you've got something, so you'll find a way to end the encounters. Just go, take that route. There are opportunities to work in Bitcoin, and that is one of the things that obviously keep people there because they need to earn a living. You know, that's the most important thing to be able to put food on the table. So some of the opportunities to earn Bitcoin are there. Yes. The opportunities are, very much there, there's one, where we tell them, you know, offer a service for those of us that know about Bitcoin, your own compass, move by and pay it Bitcoin. Number two is, developers, again,

23:13through this other community that the Bitcoin and Zambia team who created, which is a bit devs, they are able to know, you know, work on creating a solution for the Bitcoin, you know, communities in Zambia, or any other, then they can get grants, you know, the bit trust grants, we had one recent thing who got one. So we tell them, as developers, you can work on solving a solve a problem, and they are companies that are willing to sponsor and help you develop that. So we have developers actively learning how to create a solve a local problem once they understand them, they understand Bitcoin, we tell them, now we ask them, what do you think Zambia needs to make it easier to interact with Bitcoin? In those lines, find a way to solve a problem. They are always grants and communities that are willing to support you once you have a solution. So we've got developers taking that road, we've got some that are interested in trying to mine, and we've got those that got extra cash and just holding, holding, holding, the price checks them up a bit, we'll be assuring them they keep holding.

24:13So sometimes, we keep them active, we don't usually lose once, we see that people are now studying to kind of lose interest, we quickly come up with something to keep them engaged. What I've noticed from the funds that we receive, the donations as a community, we try by all means to give back the students, give them opportunities to earn it. So we usually have, we may be hosted game tournament, you know, or guys, just for fun, we are having a Bitcoin that was actually interesting to briefly waste the money online. If after the movies, we ask a few questions, we've got them, we'll give you, there'll be 1000 parhings. So they always look after such events, or I just have to pay attention, learn something from the movie and offend the audience with the groups . We should post a challenge, about that, you know, I'll give you some Bitcoin. People will be up and running, you know,

25:16trying to find ways to sell this. Whoever finds out first about that channel, they'll respond, oh, I found it's a YouTube channel that is in the world. Good stick to it, you learn something. Yeah, you're sad. So people are always looking in the group, okay, for my do something crazy, just keep your eyes. And those, keeping them engaged, keep the gifts to them in the Bitcoin space. Yeah, that's amazing. So continuing the education as well, and tell us a little bit about how the mental health pressure and resilience for the mental health pressure. On that part, I mean, I don't really think this part is affecting me in terms of mental health. It's just a physical health. I've even before this, since each other's voice, I've underlined health issues that tend to pop up randomly. Whenever I try to do too much, whenever I try to add too much on my plate. So, in the times, I've got other like stomach issues. So, whenever I'm hit with the stomach attack,

26:17you know, this gas reflexes, they should keep me down for two, three, four weeks. I'm just laying in bed completely knocked out. And those times that I'm sick, it usually falls on my co-founder now to take up even my responsibilities and that overwecks him. Have you found that the quality of the food has something to do with that? You know, in the Western world, we talk a lot about feed food and the quality of food is going down. But obviously, if you stick to the food that is grown locally, it's different. Or would you say for you, it's just a stress factor? When I went through the last investigation, trying to really pinpoint what the problem is, even my gastrologist like the doctor couldn't find one specific cause. So, I've tried, yes, I adjusted my diet, all that, but still, when I did the adjustment to following a strict diet, I would have more days' health even days' sick, but eventually I would still end up falling sick. So, we tried to run all possible investigation.

27:21That was last year, November, December. And the conclusion, the doctor just said, you know what, your body's just designed the wrong way. The best thing we can do is minimise the impact it has, or new, whenever you're having an attack, we quickly try to get you to feel better quickly, because we feel to try to find the pinpoint cause that we can solve. Like, you're exhibiting too many symptoms of different things. So, right now, I'm just always watching my diet. Whenever I feel like I'm about to be hit hard, I quickly run to him, gives me some aids to recover. And it has really helped cause now I'm back in school, I'm able to juggle the community again and school work without having too much pressure. Well, I hope you find a solution. If it's not stress, then there is always a solution. There is a solution. It could be even parasites. A lot of people have parasites and that messes with your gut. So, keep looking and you'll get there, but that's another conversation.

28:26Tell us a little bit about how global communities can help with the grassroots effort in Africa. Other communities, from what I have understood during with my community, being with the Livingstone team in Africa or in Zambia, rather, people want solutions that make their life easier. The only issue comes in on how to earn. So, Livingstone, for those of us that have had an opportunity to find a way to earn in Bitcoin, you can survive there 100 percent on Bitcoin without having to touch any questions. So, we've got merchant data accepting Bitcoin, we've got people learning about Bitcoin, we've got, the only challenge that's the many art is how for the regular people that know learn how they can earn so that they can spend their jobs. Not everyone has that luxury. So, opening up more ways to make it easier for locals to earn, it would solve the challenge, like most of the challenges that the new commerce to Bitcoin face. So, I am preventing a lot of things to try and mitigate. Having the shop owners may be paid

29:29their workers in Bitcoin so that they can eventually come back to spend it there, creating a cycle. And that's what we're also trying to do here on campus, make sure we on board the few regions, tell students to open gigs so that we can be security sets around for which are, and eventually create a full-grown ecosystem like a new secure economy. So, the most challenges, like what outside communities can do is maybe provide more ways for our locals to earn. Yeah, I think that can really help out, because the education part is covered, we've got a lot of resources to educate people. It's just now, they are tough. Wonderful. Yeah, so that's the next step. And how has Bitcoin changed or shifted your time preference? It has made me more patient, and try to understand, you know what, don't try to rush things, take them slow. It has calmed me down in terms of that high furnace that I started with, who I'm going to be rich by what? It really taught me patience. It cured that owner,

30:32that I started with a whole quick-minded, it taught me patience. Over Bitcoin pays you back when you chose to be patient. If you try to rush it, you know, find a shortcut, it will eventually crush you. And it's how, like, it feels like it's a living organism that just knows out of fighting any manipulation against it. Because if you can look at how it's resisting, most of these threats that people think are going to bring it down, but they don't. So Bitcoin teaches you patience, and even for me, it has taught me that it has taught me patience, and it has freed me when someone asks me, I remember, I'm free, asked me, like, what does Bitcoin mean to you? Like, it simply means freedom. Like, it has given me a sense of freedom where I don't have to panic. Even when I earn Bitcoin, yes, I earn the 500 quads and Bitcoin. I know I can spend, I can spend these small months over the course, but surprisingly, maybe the price goes up, my 500 quads goes back to free. You've gained value if you win without adding more to your stack. So there are

31:37certain benefits that have taught me, if you can be patient, just continue working hard to earn it to what, it will always pay you back. So a time preference, it has made me understand that, you know, you don't have to rush things, it's just let everything happen. So it sounds like to me that it's given you hope, and it sounds like Bitcoin is freedom money. Freedom money, like I say, it jumps through all the challenges, you know, the obstacles of payment, get ways, channel, it completely helps over them, and opens you up to the world. You can transact with anyone from everywhere, fast, easy, no stress. So it has opened me up. And nobody's, nobody's in charge, completely decentralized around the world. And that's got to appeal to, you know, every country, right? There is, it's not the US based, it's not China, it's not South Africa, it's just decentralized, and it keeps going no matter what we do.

32:38In the years one, also the good part about it, students just to argue against that, it was hard to teach them that there is no way something runs on its own, they must be someone. Like the only person who had the power to maybe manipulate it is gone, that's the solution. It's chosen to make the identity, the idea we chose to remove himself from the equation of, you know, being the founder of Bitcoin, but those are one person who could have maybe feared to have control of it. As it is right now, if you are running a note, you have a say. Nothing goes by or jumps through, you get to see everything and join in control. And it's like that with everyone in the world. It's just individuals that are running note and eventually they have to agree on everything, on everything, for something to happen on their networks. So even if you say, I don't want this transaction to go through, everyone now says, yes, we're going to neglect your decision and go through the transaction once, then just to door that, okay, I can't believe something like that is possible. Someone must have really had a big brain to think of it.

33:39Like, yeah, you just have to know that you as a person running a note puts you in control. And the ecosystem is just random people running notes, not one single person has in control. Yeah, that is amazing. And that is how we are all connected. Every person running a note gets a say, I personally like the knots node at the moment because they don't allow excess spam on the network, which I don't think we really need. But that's a whole nother story. But just the fact that you're running a node connects you to everybody and to Bitcoin. And that's what makes it special. Definitely. That's why we are trying to run our own node as a comment. So that at least we can have sitting classes where we actually demonstrate how, yes, we can use the, you know, meme, meme pull, meme pull to show transaction, but it's better in just seeing them on your own node. So this year, we want to have a nother running for the community, but it's June. So that

34:43we can monitor transactions and all that, get people to understand all how fees come in the equation and all. You can be used as a good, you know, teaching aids. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Paul. Tell us where people can find you and reach you and find your Bitcoin community. So we are primarily active mostly on Twitter. You can find us at BTC Compass ZM, which is Bitcoin Compass Zambia. And from there, you'll find other links to our website, which is Bitcoin Compass ZM.org. You'll find our nostra. You can see everything that has been up to over the year 2025. You can read about us. And if you want, my personal contact, if you want to get hold of me, it's just smatting the poor at, you know, smatting the poor at gmail.com. If you want to email me, if you want my nostra, I'm tagged on the community, you'll find my next contact just from the point community there. So we're easy to get hold of. We're always very waiting for

35:50people to reach out, ask us questions, you know, possibly collaborations as a community starting up from the space. Wonderful. And have you contacted other people in Africa like Oulu in Nigeria and some of the people in South Africa and Zimbabwe? Yes. From the time that I started this, how comment I've received a lot of support from people that have already existed on the space, I've had Chris, although he had to hand over responsibilities to some other guy who was running Bitcoin on campus. It's a student-led community also there, focusing on students. So he's been very, you know, helpful in guiding me, you know, giving me guidance of, don't focus on large numbers of people. Just try to get a few students to understand it and work with them. Eventually you'll grow, you create something. Then I've had Humphrey, who has also been very helpful, whenever I'm stuck for advice, whatever. We've had Adam, Adam Cooper, you know, a co-founder of Bitcoin Victoria Fuzz. He's also been there for me, you know, for my medical challenges. He's

36:52been there assisting and for the Bitcoin community. He's also been very, very helpful. There's Oulu, there's, you know, we've had a visit from Anita Posh. She's also like the support is there. The support is there when I talk to some of the, you know, the orgies they found us. We've got Felix from the core Kenya. He told me, oh, for someone who started recently to actually achieve, achieved a lot in the span of when you just keep up the energy. If you need any help, we are always there. And the support I'm really seeing it because from my first Bitcoin, we are always willing to help. Other communities are always willing to collaborate. Whenever I need that advice about possible findings or whatever we need financial assistance, everyone is always quick to point me in the best directions to look at. So I can't really comprehend the country. Wonderful. Yeah, well, Bitcoin is amazing. And we will continue to grow together. And I will put links to your community below and to your ex. Thank you for joining

37:58me today. No, it was glad to have this chat. Thank you very much for having me.