Ben Simmons is back, Clippers punished + Dane Moore joins for a Wolves conversation! Cathy Engelbert retires + Team USA takeaways

0:00Hi, hello, we have a jammed packed episode of the Dunker spot coming your way. First, we have plenty of news. Ben Simmons is back. I'm in Thompson's getting paid. The Clippers. Who boy? A lot going on there. But after the news, Dane Moore joins us for a full Fletz Timberwolves conversations. We talk Anthony Edwards. We talk LaMella ball. We talked John the comminga. We talked Chris Finch. We talk about potential shifts. We may see what the rules head again to this season. And then we shift to the W side. As you got some breaking news, Kathy Engelbert retiring at the end of the year. What does that mean for the W is the grass always greener. We talk about it. And then we break down team USA's debut win over China. What we like, what we got some questions about standout performances of both ends of the floor. We had a lot of fun with this episode. We hope you rock with us and enjoy it as well. One of the best non basketball moments of my life was attending my first SmackDown in 2024. I'd always said I wanted to catch a wrestling show live and I finally had the opportunity to do so with SmackDown coming to Charlotte. But I almost missed out. The thing about being forgetful and 80 D brand is that you tend to do things at the last minute.

1:03Thank goodness for the game time app though, where I was able to secure some sweet seats near the ramp to watch Bianca Belair, Cody Rhodes, Randy Orton, Sammy Zane, L.A. Knight, Gunther, and even a dark match afterwards between Cody and Solo Sacoa. I had a blast. The game time app has tickets to live events, sports, concerts, comedy and more that turn into unforgettable nights. For my wrestling fans, Summer Slam is happening this weekend and Minneapolis and there are great seats still available. And if you're a WNBA fan, you could catch a live of your miles in the links taking on Caitlyn Clark and the Indiana fever. Regardless of your interest though, it's pretty easy to find tickets. The app is easy to use. You get a preview of your seats so you're not stuck behind a pole or something. You're going to get a great deal. And more importantly, you'll get your tickets on time. So get your friends together, get the tickets and tell them it's game time. Download the game time app, create an account and use code Dunker for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem code, D-U-N-K-E-R for $20 off. Find live events on game time, download the app today.

2:06Do you know what happens when you link your GrubHub to your Amazon Prime? You get $0 delivery fees on all eligible orders. Summing the food! Terms and additional fees apply visit amazon.com slash GrubHub for details. Hi, hello and welcome to another episode of the Dunker Spot. We are part of the Yahoo Sports Network. I am your host, Nikaia Stunkin. And join me as always is my co-host, the always excellent Steve Jones. Join your Steve! Happy Friday, how are you? Uh, feeling good, feeling great. Happy to be here. Excited to be here. Thank you, Dunkers, for once again, embracing your bounce. Let's talk some hoop. Nikaia's is bringing some energy. Let's have some excitement. We got moves. We vo-void. We have moves. We have news. Major news coming out of the Western Conference. Out of the Pacific Division, specifically. Ben Simmons, back in the NBA, was not on a roster last season as he recovered and fished

3:07and found himself. Now seems to be healthier, happier, and is now signed again one year deal worth $3.5 million with the Sacramento Kings. And I tell you what Steve, I guess similar to how we start off the Jonathan Kaminga segment, I'm just happy for Ben Simmons, the person, first and foremost, as this has been quite the journey over the last few years to where he goes from all NBA, all defense performer to all the injuries, slash mental stuff he's had to deal with, all the roster movement, all the conversations around him, in the league, out of the league, back in the league. And I think it's just very human to want to find happiness, to want to find what your purpose is, and just want to have a level of calm and peace in your life. And it just seems like over the past few months as you're seeing photos and reading pieces about Ben Simmons. He seems to be in a better place overall. And so I'm happy for him, first and foremost, I'm also just kind of intrigued by the Kings being the team that lands Ben Simmons here.

4:07But before I yap, how do you feel about Ben Simmons back in Sacramento? No, I mean, let's stay right there. I mean, to the human aspect, the fact that he's back playing basketball, I think, speaks to where he's at mentally and physically, and being able to be in a position to where, okay, I feel good enough about what I can do to contribute to a team. I feel good enough to play the game of basketball, get the opportunity to play the game of basketball again. And I think that's a salute to him, because I don't think the journey has been as easy as it's looked at different times. And so, hey, I gotta make sure my body's right, I gotta make sure my mind's right. And now it's a chance to, okay, let's reopen the door. And let's see if we can give this story a different end. And so when you mention the Kings, okay, it's interesting. What are we looking for as far as my return to basketball? Is it an opportunity to contribute to winning? Is it an opportunity to just be able to play and be myself? Is that what lands you in Sacramento? So we're okay.

5:07I can impart my knowledge on some of the younger players here, because we know Sacramento was looking at, hey, can we get someone to kind of have some of these conversations with Darius Acuff? I've been sevens can help with that, because Ben Simmons lived that life. Now, at the same time, can I have my versatility to where I can play different positions? I'm a unique player. I can get after it defensively. You know, the drives there, the passes are there. How does that look in Sacramento, where there's a little bit more wiggle room to kind of just operate? Obviously the Kings are in a lot of people's minds at a certain level this year, totally understood. If you've told me you got the monster bonus, you got Ben Simmons, two very unique offensive players with unique skill sets, I think that should be enjoyable to watch. So I'm intrigued to see how Sacramento wants to use Ben Simmons, what his role looks like, who he plays with. We're talking about Ben Simmons back up one, which I'm not Ben Simmons four or five. Which version, what are you trying to get out of them? But the most important thing is, hey, it's an opportunity to see him play the game of basketball again and play it in a way that he wants to.

6:10I think that's important. No, I'm right there with you. The last time we saw him, as a member of the Law Center's Clippers, you got to see that versatility be tapped into with who he was being asked to guard with schemes they had him in, him being able to grab a board and push, him being able to operate as a hub a little bit. And so if he is feeling physically better, then we should see all of that. And then hopefully a little bit more on the juice amount of drives, excuse me. Because I think that's kind of the bigger thing with Ben Simmons as he makes his return to the court, is how much force can he consistently play with? Because at his best, even going back to the filling days and his best is like, not only does he have this playmaking this driver, but he will put you underneath the basket on some of these drives, which forces the attention, which further opens up the passage. If this is more of the tentative Ben Simmons to where I can get into the paint, but I'm not really threatening the defense when I do so, you're kind of limiting the scope of what that versatility can actually be. So I'm excited to see what that part looks like, even to the King's context specifically, I'm also fascinated with like the actual position

7:11that he's going to be in, because there is a general shooting slash spacing element with him plus the bonus or him plus Maxine right now, as neither the three are like true floor spacers, but you can't move them around to unlock the playmaking higher up on the floor. So like there are ways to reconfigure it. And if you were taking something to do these off of, there is a cuff to where he can just kind of run off hand, also get busy with cuts and attack that way. Zach Levine, who has always been very good playing off of hubs, it being able to attack that way versus having to initiate King Murray, very good off all mover. Like there is an avenue to where this offensive context can make sense, but it is going to take some creativity and some curious to see how the Christie taps into all of that. Well, I think it's kind of balanced on what you said. How do you feel about you mentioned like the tension of Ben Simmons? Do you think that will exist in Sacramento? Do you think he would come back feeling the same way? If that question makes sense? Now I get

8:11where you're coming from. Like in theory, no, you do still just have to do it. Like you do still have to get through that first preseason game, where that first regular season game. And so I like the NBA speed is still going to be different. And so that's more so where I'm just like it is a sign. It is a positive one that you feel good enough to put yourself back out there. Now that you're out there, you now have to get back used to NBA physicality. NBA speed as the game has gotten faster, space here, all that good stuff. And so it's going to put more of a magnifying glass on. Okay, how much force are you coming with with these drives? When you are used as a screener, something that I've been excited about with Ben Simmons in the front court and multiple stops, but the screening hasn't always been good. Hasn't always been forceful. So you're not getting the juice out of short-role Ben Simmons because you're not getting the short-role opportunities. I just want to see him be able to tap into that because I think from a skillset perspective, he can do it, but there is a requisite level of force that he needs to fully unlock all of that. Now, I mean, I think what you're going to what you should see in theory and hopefully is a more confident version of Ben Simmons. I think he's kind of built

9:14towards that. He shone flashes as the stops have changed, right? Brooklyn, Clippers, Philly. You've got, I mean, obviously Philly, but like you've seen different versions of him, even as he's trying to work through different things. So his sacrameno is spot where, okay, there's a level of freedom. There's not a level of expectation and there is talent around me. So can I kind of not just my wisdom, but also put myself in packal positions to get to these drives, to get to the playmaking, to get to the passing. It's feel a little bit better about my overall game. In an environment that may not require me to say, hey, Ben Simmons, we need you to do X, Y, and Z so we can have success. That's kind of the entry level for me as far as him being in this specific spot to where, okay, can he reestablish himself into your point, go through some of those tough times and have to relearn some of those things, but also at the same time, I have a comfort level. This team can take what I do and I can help us play better, but I'm not necessarily going to be like if Ben Simmons was in Miami, different scenario, different expectations. We would definitely need

10:17you to do specifically these things as opposed to, okay, let me give my feet well a little bit, and let me see if I can just overall get back to some of the magic I had earlier at different points Yeah, I think that's fair. I love that's why I love the overall context for him like this is a place for you to just kind of find yourself get back into the flow of things. So salute to Ben Simmons, excited to see what it looks like. We will move forward as we stick out West Steve, the Rockets and Almond Thompson. We have a rookie scale extension, not the full max for Almond Thompson, which was fascinating to me in this apron world, but five years, $208 million, still a nice bit of change, a 10% trade kicker factor into that as well, a per-zack low no-contract escalators in the deal from the Thompson. So if you wins D porous, something like that, he's not going to bump up to like a 25% or 30% or 35% max. So seems like Ruffie Austin has done it again within that perspective, but away from that minutiae, how do you feel about the Almond Thompson deal Steve and what are your expectations for him heading into this up? I mean, it feels like a no-brainer. If you're Houston, in whatever

11:22we're building now and whatever we're doing going forward, we want Almond Thompson here. I think he showcased what he can do on both ends of the floor and I don't think he's hit the ceiling at this point. I think that's where you got to kind of get curious because defensively, he is absolutely very tough to deal with. Being in multiple positions, it's hard to really make him not impactful in that end of the floor. I think we've continued to see offensive growth from him as far as you can use him in different ways. He started to understand how to have impact in different ways. And so, okay, I can have the ball. I can find this comfort maybe mixing these midrange shots. I can get to these drives. I'm not necessarily someone that you're game-plaining at right now, but I help my team win in different ways. So I can be at the Dunker Spot. I can be involved in on ball actions. I can be a screener. I can cut off the ball. And so as I'm getting better, I'm still trying to fit within the context. And I haven't necessarily scratched the ceiling on what could unlock the next level from me. If the midrange shot gets better, what do you do with almond Thompson? If he mixes in

12:24just a few more cashew threes, what do you do with almond Thompson? If the cutting gets even stronger, what do you do with almond Thompson? So there's a lot of potential for what we've seen, which again was like what, 18 and a night? Five assists. As some way five people have questions marks about offensively, okay, if I get a little bit better at some of these things or if I master one of these abilities, what is that look like? Yeah, if I'm Houston, I'd like to find out what that looks like. I'd like that to be a part of my program. So no doubt about it. It makes a ton of sense for Houston to go ahead and make sure almond Thompson is a part of our program going forward. Yeah, I love that he got his money because he is worth the money. And again, I said at the top, a little bit surprised, that it wasn't just the 25% max because that's just generally what the high profile rookies get, even within this world. And so to be able to negotiate that down a little bit, I'm like, okay, this is interesting, but still enough for him to take it. Now you look at almond Thompson the player, and he did not make all defense last year. It was still very good. I think he had some slippage on

13:25that end because he had more on-borrow responsibility. The year before that was pretty easily in all defense first team member because of his ability to mirror in space, defend multiple positions, all the things that you list this deep. And so now you enter this context with Fred Van Vliep returning. And it's like, okay, the on-bought stuff can be more of a bonus for me. More than we need you to be point almond also mix into darker spot usage, also have the transition scoring, and then also defend number one's or number two's depending on who to start line up with, shout out Josh Cogget, etc. I'm excited about him being more of a Swiss army knife now. And I'm glad that you nailed some of the growth that he showcased as an interior score because like the finishing kind of is what it is, the year old steps, the decals, everything you get into. Him becoming more comfortable with these pull up mid-range shots, and like it really popped for me specifically in that January run that he had where it's like, oh, he's averaging early on in that month, end of average late 19 for the month January. But like early on, he's averaging like 21, 22 a night, and he's just sprinkling in these mid-range jumpers and getting to these spots for the easy of like, oh, I like this. Has continued

14:28to build on that. The defense should perk back up with less on-borrow responsibility in theory. Very good news for him. Salute Tom and Tomson, Salute to Houston Rockets, and now Steve. To close things out with this portion of the NBA section, because we have a guest that we are excited for y'all to hear about, we finally got a resolution from the Los Angeles Clippers, N.K.Y. Leonard, and Asperation, and all the things. And it is a hefty one. Forfeiture of five first round picks in 2029, 2030, 2031, 2032, 2033, from Zacklow, the 29 unprotected first round pick from the Pacers. As part of the Vizazuba deal, that is the 29 pick that's being afforded. So that is tough. 30 million dollar fine. Steve Balmer suspended from all leading team activities for a year. Gillian Zucker, president of business operations suspended for a year without pay. Lawrence Frank, the president of the basketball operations suspended for six months. Kauai Leonard, gonna have to pay back $700,000 in the restitution. It's finally over, Steve. Any closing thoughts on what this entire ordeal has been in a general where the Clippers go from

15:31here? Well, I once worked in the NBA, and I worked for the Memphis Grizzlies, and whoop that clip, whoop that clip, whoop that clip. No way. No way. Well done. I think it is unfortunate for Clipper fans first and foremost that they have to deal with all of this turmoil, and the team built restrictions that come with losing five unprotected or five first round picks. That is nuts. And it kind of sparks bigger picture thoughts for me with like, does there is going to be some bubble if you want to replenish some of these picks and further lean into the rebuild? Are you going to lean even further into the reality chase next year, et cetera, to try to build out a competitor and light up the picks? I'm just fascinated like what this is going to do to them from a team building perspective. And finally, just a quick shout out to Pablo Torre, who has just been all over this,

16:35and continued to be all over this, and continued to uncover and uncover and uncover and uncover, and uncover, like just a very impressive brand of investigative journalism that helped spark all of this. And so I just want to make sure I get the salute on tape, but this just, you can't do that if you are the Clippers and have this kind of trail on top of it. Yeah, it's nope. Nope. Can't do that. Touched stove and you showed us you touched stove. Can't do that. Now what I will just thought bubble for everyone out there. You named the last five Clippers picks. First founders name them. They I'll tell you what, I feel like I've had more fun with the second round. Just with the Clippers than the first rounders, because I'll put it that way. Well, that's quick shout out to Yonick. Yonick. And then we got hurt. I see what's going on here. I understand your broader point. It hasn't been like the Clippers and the Nail different round pick. But like even if in the event that you haven't nailed your first round

17:39picks, it is still important to have them if you want to trade them. Like they just don't have they have those picks out. And because they have those picks out, even the picks that they do have, they can't move them because of the stepping rule, which you know my thoughts on the stepping rule in 2026. But we'll leave that for another podcast. They got some work to do. And again, I feel for the fans more than anything because like they didn't ask for any of this. And to be in the news for all of this, they just kind of sucked for them. And so we will see where the Clippers move forward. Look at you talking about the Clippers, the way you have for the last three years. And now you you shot another phase. I'll see you big dog. What would you be? That's crazy. That's crazy. I feel like I have Julie being a pro Clipper on this podcast. But anyway, we're going to take them right from here. And when we return, we have Dane more joining the podcast. We are talking all things, Timberwolves, the off season, what we learned from

18:40last season, what we're expecting to get into this new one. We're going to have some fun. Please stay tuned. Toyota's easy choice sales event is on whether you're looking for the performance of the Camry, the versatility of Arab 4, the efficiency of a Corolla or all electric driving in the BZ. There's a Toyota that's just right for you. And with great deals across the lineup, now's the time to find yours. But hurry, these deals won't last long. Toyota's easy choice sales event and soon. We make it easy. Toyota, let's go places. And we are back with this episode of the Dunker Spot as a special guest joins us for the first time, hopefully not the last time. Dane more of the Dane more NBA podcast joins us. Dane, welcome to the show. How are you? Good, man. What's up? Yeah, this is this is definitely overdue.

19:45Both of you guys know I got a bunch of respect for the both of you and learn a lot from you, even about wolf stuff. It helps me kind of piece some of my stuff together. So yeah, this is overdue. I guess we have stuff to talk about even though it's getting a good September. But yeah, let's do it. Oh, man, long overdue in D, one of my favorites in the business. I've been talking to Steve all fair. Like, yeah, we got to get Dane on at some point to talk wolves because they are they have been a fascinating team for quite some time. And this offseason that has ramped up even more with some splashy addition. So we're going to get there and talk about some of the major moves this off season. But first just kind of wanted to broaden this scope. And I want to ask you, how did you absorb what last season was? What were your expectations heading in? And how did they meet, exceed fall short of those expectations? That's a good question. And it's weird to think it like probably about exactly 12 months ago. What what I was thinking about this team. I remember one thing I was I was very much a believer in was that Julius Randle was going to play better.

20:49Everybody was just like super out on him. And I just kind of knew, and this is maybe an indictment sort of of the season. But I knew they were going to make Julius super important last season. And especially thing kind of starting hurt. He was. He was just he was such a the first couple weeks of the season was such a big piece to the team that I felt like it was almost kind of defining in a way. It kind of like established Julius's prominence, which I again, I was expecting to some extent, but it was like right away Julius is awesome. Maybe he's even an all star. And and that again, I don't think it's set him astray. But I fast forward to now 12 months later. And I think they know they didn't want to do that again. Or they more recognized what the ceiling of that roster construction was with Julius. So yeah, I think about 12 months ago. It was kind of run it back. It was continuity. And I knew that meant a lot of Julius Randle. And I think that ended up being true. I think just off of the right. I guess based on the Randle piece, were you expecting this kind of stylistic shift when moving away from him? Or was

21:54you were you just kind of anticipating this was more so going to be contractual and they reconfiguring in some kind of different way? Well, that's loaded because no, I did not I guess I did not expect this level of change because I mean, I was saying all year last season given how much I knew they wanted to play you on Baron J. Eventually that one of the three bigs was gone. Like I knew Rudy Julius or Nas was getting traded or whatever. Yeah, not prop back. For it to be both of them, they're two, two of those three bigs. I think really does just shift the identity in a way that I wasn't expecting it. It felt like they might get a little bit smaller, you know? Like another sort of you went from the cat at the four to Julius at the four. You lose a little bit of physicality from Julius to Nas as you're starting for. Like that's still big. Nas is like 75 wingspan. Like you keep that long, long identity. And then all of the summer was like, okay, no bigs at all. You got Rudy and Yoann and bunch of guards. So I'm still wrapping my head around it. I guess is what I

22:57would say. But of course, just Lamello's presence is going to drastically change the functionality. I think we could flow right there then. I think the Lamello piece was such a fun move for me from both sides. Because I think looking at what Minnesota did and kind of bounces off of as you said, moving both of those fours out of the room and just becoming smaller in general. I wondered how much of the construction shift was contractual, how much of it was trying to emphasize Anthony Edwards in a different way and how much of it was kind of their view of the Western confidence as a whole. So I think, okay, see, obviously very good, but very good in particular ways. San Antonio makes this rise and becomes a finals team. They have Wimby. You can't really replicate that anywhere else. It's all wonder how much of this was can we find a different edge to kind of neutralize some of the advantages that San Antonio and Oklahoma City has. And I think adding the middle ball into the mix, you are getting an injection of pace for one. But there's also a further leaning into the

23:59three point shooting that I think is fascinating from like a team wide or just like a a person else that strategy perspective. Like do you think that is fair in some of the thinking for Minnesota to make the Mulele Sway? I don't think I'm getting too far ahead of things, but you asked in the outline, you know, biggest question heading into the off season that I had going into this off season. And obviously that's before the Julius trade, before the Nashtray, before Lamello comes in. And what I wrote down was the biggest question they had going into the off season. And this is the way I approached it, you know, back in like June, was were they going to be able to get off of Julius Randall's contract painlessly? I thought that was absolutely going to define the identity of the team. Because if it ultimately they jumped on that quick, right? Like this is the one thing, like a low key really good move. I think the Timberlost made this summer was jumping on trading Randall into Brooklyn space two days before the draft. While everybody still had

25:00other dreams of all the moves they were going to make, like the wolves just jumped on that. And basically got up a Randall by moving back from the 28th pick to the 33 pick. I think they found that and they were like, okay, this allows us a pathway to pivot. How exactly are we going to pivot from here? We'll see with what subsequent moves we make. Lamello becomes made available. And it's like, all right, well, that's do lamello and let's build the roster out in a way that, uh, yeah, fits that. But that's drastically different, man. Like I'm curious to hear from you guys of, or maybe you can just like contextualize how big of a shift this is. Because I'm still trying to wrap my head around, like they played one way for the last few years. This is going to be very, very different is my read on it. What do you guys? What do you guys see? Well, I mean, for me, even going back to the little bit of the little trade that was clear at Minnesota wanted to refresh their vision on what

26:02they were going to do. So you kind of mentioned it earlier, Dan, about maybe this group is hit their ceiling. Okay, let's go in a little bit of a completely different direction. Let's solidify this guard room. Unless part of ourselves in a position where, okay, if we're playing the thunder, we're playing the spurs, we're a little slower. We have some roles. We have more people who can attack. We have more people who can create. We have not just, hey, is anti-airways now you two on the ball could be play out of it. And so that's where I'm like, okay, it's a question I'll ask in here in a second. But like, Lamello is going to help them. What's going to be the biggest impact is going to be interesting. Is it the scoring? Is the playmaking? Is the transition? Is the pace? But I think overall it's okay. This version of our team is very good. But we've hit the ceiling with this version. So how do we refresh around anti-airwords and around success? That's not an easy thing to do. So you get Lamello's dynamic and you should feel a lot better about your guard room as far as just having talent on the forward all times. And obviously you're able to add John Thiccaminga. Okay, we're not necessarily going to have the bakes. But do we make up for that with a version of a athleticism? Do we make up for that with some driving? Do we have more threats on

27:05the court consistently? Are we able to play a little bit different stylistically and have a level of a level of versatility that we didn't necessarily have because eventually we were going to get to the part where Julius Randall and Nasrid have to do X. And that's where I'm like, is that trade-off the one that you're willing to do? But I think it's a swing for the fences in the best way possible that continuity is great until it is. And I think Minnesota as much as I love that team and how Julius had grown in Nas and anti-airwords, it was clear the rest of the west is like, you know what? There's a level to this. So now I'm excited to see how does how do they absorb this kind of different style with having some things that they know they do well? How long do you think that takes? I guess it's a couple factors, right? One, how good are they defensively? What does that look like? They're at a certain level defensively and then get stops. They got some wiggle room in the half-court, right? I think because you have an established and you have Lamello who can be used

28:09in different ways and J. Medinos is used to it. I assume it was used to it. John De Camingo will be willing and able and trying to do whatever he can. I think the acclamation could be quick. I think it just depends on, okay, what's their pace and tempo offensively? What are they trying to do in the half-court? And then can you get enough stops to make the transition really pop? So I think they could be a team that gets off the ground running because you fold Zubritz and excitement around, and Chris Finch being able to do something different. I'm sure he's probably enjoying sitting in August and figuring out, okay, how do I drop an offense with two guards who can do XYZ as opposed to, okay, let's have, we have to have some level of movement. We got to get an off-ball, on-ball. So can we get a refresh to where, okay, we can do some more of the things we wanted to do offensively versus, okay, we're going to have to figure out how to get this going. So it can be quick. I want to make sure I answer your question. I'm skeptical of that premise that it will be quick. I think it will be good in time. I think

29:15that, I just think you're listing out a lot of dots there that you are, you know, boxes that they got to check off. And that's, I think, I mean, a huge story of this season, as Chris Finch, to me, obviously, reimagining this whole team, but I think it's also about the speed in which you can check those boxes that lead you to grow into the team that you want to become. I mean, you got to set a vision for that. You got to ask yourself what can reasonably, you know, be expected. A real staple of the Chris Finch era in Minnesota has been this team really killing it the final third of the season. You know, they're kind of like, for many years, kind of like Charlotte was last year, right? Where they were just so hot at the end of the year. Like, I, the experience covering this wolves team with Finch is every team has kind of taken a little bit of time to find themselves, but they do. And I don't know, maybe that's, it's just takes time because there's been so much roster turnover, even in his time here. But this is the biggest roster turnover I think they've had. Yeah. So I don't know if it's going to be October,

30:19November, and we're going to be like, this is the vision copy pace this out for the next six months. I don't know. It's a lot on Finch. Well, I mean, I think it's with this Minnesota team, it's always been you mentioned dots. I say levers. If one lever is going, it's going to help the other one, right? And so I think this group is going to have different levers are going to have to hit. I think there's a world where they do have to be at a certain level defensively for any of this to make sense, to be honest. Like if if they're going to be number 16 in defense, then a lot of our conversations in the shift because, okay, you need to clean that part up. But okay, in the half court, what's your vision, what's your style? Are you playing faster? Can you get into stuff quicker and feel a little bit more impactful as opposed to, okay, is Minnesota moving the ball? Yes. Okay. The Minnesota stop moving the ball. Yes. Well, you kind of know what's going to happen in those instances. So I agree with your point, but there is a little bit of a brand new world element. Two degree. That's for some reason can refresh a team. That's real. It can't. It has

31:26here. I really think it has like this team and it's kind of done like two year pockets of like one iteration. And and they've always said after the first year, like, oh, we're going to benefit from continuity in the second year. And it really feels like they don't get that push until they do make sort of the change. I mean, even back to like the Pat Ben Jared Vanderbilt year, like the first year that this team, do you remember, you know, went to the playoffs? It's like 21 year old. There was something like, I think, I think what you're talking about Steve is something that aunt really feels, right? Like that brand new world, like, he will be energized by that, which I don't think is any like, because obviously like him and Kat were cool with him. Like, I don't think it's about that. It's about, okay, I kind of feel like we've been running into a wall a little bit with this one version of this roster. You know, what could be behind door two? You want a boat or you want a boat? It could be a boat behind door two. Like, I think he is like, I'm excited. You know, I want to I want to see what what it is. I think that's a good point.

32:27Well, I think just this is right. Oh, no, no, no, I have any question, but it can wait. Okay, I was just going to say quickly, I wonder in terms of how quickly they can check off these boxes. I think targeting Lamello specifically is what may make this a little bit easier. Because I think just looking at some of the baseline stuff from Minnesota, like bottom 10 in terms of how often they are running a picking roll per 100 possessions last year. Charlotte was first by a mile. And as we talked about with Charlotte specifically Steve, it wasn't like Lamello, you are running 56 in picking rolls. Like, it was a spread the well thing. Lamello was as on ball as he was. And so I think it'd be easier to either just ramp up the volume altogether because that's something Lamello can do. And that is a way to get Anthony Edwards, at least on the second side of actions and get him off the ball a little bit. Or if it is more of a symbiotic thing, both are kind of accustomed to playing off of another ball handler. I think to the Minnesota perspective, is this the first point guard they've had that can like consistently draw to a big at the level? Like it may be. And like even like that alone

33:28may make life a little bit easier for Ant to kind of attack in those kind of ways. Just to kind of vary up his usage a little bit. First one since Delo, you know, I mean, that's like five years ago. And that that happens sometimes because he could come up and shoot it. But that team what Ant was much more weaponized when the big came up to the level and they got off of it. And Ant was playing the two. And now here we go. Ant can attack the second side or back side of a defense before the big is, you know, got back down there, got into dropped, you know, got back down to the rim. And I think that's Ant's superpower. I think that's why Ant should play the two. I think that's why Ant shouldn't be a Helio centric James Harden, you know, Luca Doncher type. I think what he needs is a point guard who can think the game and be a weapon at all three levels. And Lamello's at least from three point range and I get to the middle of the fouries of weapon. I mean, I think he's got to do some stuff at the rim. He needs to improve there a little

34:31bit. But yeah, I mean, I can't wait to see how Lamello changes Ant's life because Ant's life was tough cooking last year when he was the point guard. To my auntie, I was questioned since we're here, how important was this offseason for him, growth wise to kind of have a vision, as you said, towards this team and to be a part of that? I mean, and not nowadays, we see all the trips that they take and, you know, the wolves are with the only team who's done an international trip, right? I think that was great. I think it's a signal of their camaraderie. I don't think that's necessarily super unique across the NBA, right? What I see and I mean, I've covered Ants since he was a 19 year old, you know, coming into the league, what I see from Ant more than anything is just like a dude who's growing up. He's 25 years old now. And that's just a human thing, right? Where you, we all had a way we approached life and our

35:38priorities at 19 versus 22 versus I always refer to it. I did for so many years with Andrew Wiggins as like the adult light switch. And I think that like he turned that on right in his last like half year in Minnesota. And then what happens right after that is that first year in Golden State. I just, it reminds me, I guess, of that with Wiggins, right? I was just like, oh, you're just not like a college age dude anymore, right? You're like, and, and, and that seems so simplistic. But like at the end of the day, these guys are people with brains developing at the same rate as all of ours do when we're in our early 20s. So yeah, I just think like ants grown up into more of like a man and a leader naturally because that's kind of what happens when you get older. I don't say that to take away from them. But if you're asking me what's behind it, I think it's just like a healthy growth and maturity. Well, I think that's fair. And I think that leads into something that you mentioned, Steve, when we talked about Jonathan Kaminga earlier this week, it's just like

36:38ant being as loud of a voice in part like recruiting him. And I think just in general, I would imagine there are conversations between him and the front office, they and you would have a better handle on this than I would. But I would imagine there's at least some kind of collaboration with okay, Lamell is available. How would you feel about this? He's on the team. So I would assume that so for soundly, yes, on his point. But like, I guess the question I would ask you is how involved has ant been generally when it comes to these kind of things? I think it's relatively new. I mean, like if you even just go back to the Randall for Towns trade a couple of years ago, I don't like, I don't think there is a lot of talking through all of that with ant. But yes, this summer, you know, even back to like the the thought of the brawn, like ant was hands on. And I mean, I just think it's something Tim Conley is very good at as a president of basketball operations is kind of again, tapping into that human element and having in-person

37:39conversations like he flew down to Miami to meet with Jonathan Caminga in person and have like a long dinner. And I think I think that's something the wolves have to offer, like kind of at all three levels for them is is Tim Conley is intentional about that. Finch is very much like a relate ability type of dude. And then ant is this charismatic like I think if it was Jonathan Caminga and you got the pitch from all three of those guys as he did just how I understand each of their personalities. I'd be like damn, you know, like I am enticed. And I know that the makers did not do the same thing in their pursuit of Caminga. I don't think I think it's fair to say they did not put on the full court press to attract Caminga that you know that the wolves did. And I mean, the mellow is a little bit different because it's a trade. But yeah, like he didn't just know ant like him and Jaylen Clark grew up playing together like he has connections to this group. And

38:44I think it's just like that made him feel comfortable much like Rudy was really comfortable when he got here right away. I think they I think cat was very important in that. But again, that's Tim Conley like they do a good job of being like, hey, this is how you would fit here. And I think it's got people to buy in Julius too. Oh, I think that's fair. I guess while we're still on ant, I am curious like what you think the next step for him on court is going to be because I think we've seen over the past few years like the playmaking and the process of speed has got a little bit better last year. You saw more comfort operating in the mid range area and with his back to the basket. Heading into this season, what do you think that next thing is going to be for ant or what would you like for it to be? One, and this is just like simple basic like let's bump the defense up back to the level it was at a couple years ago. Defense has dropped, but that's that's not really technical. That's what managing your energy better and just being more engaged defensively. Like that just dropped. And I think that in part dropped because he was on ball all the time on offense.

39:47Right. He's initiating the offense. He was the point guard of that team. He was definitely got worn down more last season than he has in previous seasons and that cost his defense. But I think that's just an approach thing pretty much offensively. I want to see manipulation from ant in the half court, whether that's on ball or weaponizing himself on ball or off ball. Sorry. To I think that's like the next level for him is understanding that like I am a threat even when I'm not even if my endgame isn't shooting here, right? Two dribbles to the left here forces this rotation. I mean, he's got a basic understanding of like the lowman rotates over and that. But like some more advanced level of manipulation with the ball in his hands. I think would go a long way and then you're a lot more engaged off ball when he is playing off flimelo like can't just be chilling standing in the corner upright. Like what can you do to be a threat

40:48outside of just being a catch and shoot option when when you're off ball. I bring those up because I just I'm ants awesome already. I just think there's a lot of meat on the bone in in that area specifically offensively for him that you know maybe if you've just watched him in the playoffs, you know, you have an understanding of ants like this all the time. It's it's not the reality of the situation and what makes him an MVP in this league is once he starts doing that stuff all the time and again, I think that's just something that comes with age two better understanding growing up a little bit. I think there's a lot there that that he could make him a lot more potent offensively. Now I mean, I think that's been the biggest thing that we've talked about is just okay, Anthony Edwards, you showcased his growth. The superpower has been how you can bend defenses. It was the playoff run twice. Yep, can you do it every single night? And so you've added the clutch score and you've had the quick decisions. You've got the mid range game, but now can you kind of just force the defense to your will and it's set wherever their coverage and says we're

41:52beating it anyways. So I think I'm with Dan there. Where do you want to go to guys? Oh, I think both of you kind of nailed it. Just the manipulation piece is going to be big. Like one de graphics that was up a little bit earlier. It's just how much more often he's gotten two on the ball and picking roll as the career has progressed. A little bit of a dip last season, but the last three years of particular, you have seen defenses react more to him. And something that Steve has hammered pretty consistently during this run has been ants growth and recognizing even if I'm not the one shooting or you've not getting the direct assist opportunity. If I get off the ball quickly enough, we can play out of it at manage. And I think the best moments of Minnesota's offense has been and getting that attention, understanding that attention and making quick enough decisions to play off of that. And so if there is more per possession consistency for him, I think there's just it's just going to have an amplifying effect on everyone involved. And I think having a little mellow in the fold, another guy that especially if he has to pull a three going another guy that can draw that kind of aggressive coverage. You know, I have two guys that kind of dictate time. And I think some of the issues that I've had with Minnesota's half-fourth

42:54is that if it doesn't have it going, it goes to Julien Campbell, can score and play make. But there is a let me catch, let me see what's happening, and then let me attack. It gets a little rigid at times. And I think the best version of Minnesota's offense within this offense, within this new context would be a more free-flowing thing. It would be a higher tempo, a higher pace thing. And that's where I'm with both of you where I'm just excited to see one if it clicks, I think it will, but two and more importantly, how quickly it can and light up how tough the wealth of confidence is. And I'm also glad that you started with the defense because that is, as Steve can attest to, that has been a pretty consistent frustration of mine. It's like you have all defense stuff in you. I just need you to tap into that, work consistently. So that skill set is there. I feel like a hater, you know, like all the time, but it's just, you know, it's just different, right? Like, I mean, you guys are watching like very healthy amounts of every team, but the normal consumer, right, is consuming the team the way like I do, right? Through the lens of watching this

43:55every single night. So I know what it is and what it isn't. And the reality of the situation is if you watched, have watched every minute of Anthony Edwards defensively throughout his career, as I have, you couldn't, you couldn't possibly be like, this is an A plus defender. It just isn't, you know, there are absolutely A plus plus moments. And fourth quarters, often that's when it is. I just think like they might need that this year. I think they might need another guy that can guard on ball, be the point of attack defender. And we're going to talk about Jaden later. Like, do you want to play Jaden at the four? You know, do you want to play Jaden off ball kind of tap into some of that rim protection? Jaden has been playing the point of attack exclusively defensively. Almost exclusively for the entirety of his career. If Ant can give you a little bit more engagement on ball, where I think he's better than off ball, where he has some of those lapses. I think that's a huge piece. And I'm totally with you guys. Like, you can't be 16th on defense.

44:56Like this team needs to be top 10 on defense. And I think Ant unlocks some ways for them to like functionally do that. Not just by let alone just trying harder, right? Trying harder, being more engaged on defense is just going to help everything. But he unlocks some things that there are other pieces. I mean, he can't just guard the ball a lot better than I can straight up. You know, like that's just a reality of the situation. So if it's not Jaden, it would help if it was eight. And I think he, I think, you know, you saw the quotes that he said with Kaminga to come here. Like, we're about defense. Like, how often are you about defense? I think is the question for this. Well, I have a question. I'm glad you brought up a Kaminga. Do you think there's a world where Kaminga could be one of those guys to help them defensively? With this context, with this context, with the recruitment, with needing to prove something, could he tap into something on that end? Or am I delivering copium?

45:57I mean, yes, you are. But there's the fact of delivery mechanisms here. What they do, and you guys know this, is like, they put Rudy at the back line and they tell the other four guys to go attack their individual matchup, 101 guard your yard, right? And Anthony Edwards is good at that. Jonathan Kaminga is good at that. You know, Nikhil Alexander Walker, all these guys who have been good at that, they attack their individual matchup, Rudy's there in the back end to sort of cleaning up. And I think that's very valuable when guys like Ant and Kaminga are like an A or a B defender, Ambal and a C or C or D defender, off ball, right? You push them into the Ambal options more often. I think that's what Finch will have this defense too. My concern is only one guy is on ball at a time. So if Kaminga's guarding whoever at the point of attack, like, what are you doing off the ball, off ball on the back line or vice versa or if Jaden's out there

47:01guarding the ball, that's two guys who historically are kind of disengaged defensively there. If those guys turn up that engagement, man, it's like it's kind of that simple to me that or whatever. It's a pre- it's a pre-requisite to being a top 10 defense. I think it's for those guys to be engaged. And I'm just more confident that they'll do that on ball than they will off ball. No, I think it's fair point to raise up. And I think for them to be good defensively, they will have to be good off ball. They will be able to have to be a team that makes multiple efforts. If you're talking about Lamello, Kaminga, and even sometimes Jaden, okay, are you going to be in help or are you going to be able to recover? Can we rely on that? Can we string together their multiple efforts to kind of keep a team in the box? That is the most interesting part. I also am intrigued to see how much versatility they try and tap into with some of these lineups, right? Are you going to become a switch team and make this a little cleaner and make it easier and make it simpler? Are you going to trust and kind of force this team as Chris Finch is always asked for effort? Hey, we are going to have to be a team that helps and recovers and rotates and

48:04keeps them on the front and makes multiple efforts and flies around defensively, which we've seen them do at times. I also seen them not do it. I guess my intrigued level is more so just like the combinations they can hit and then as the season progresses to what you said earlier, Dane, how many things can they end up doing well? Because we've seen Minnesota just bust things out. Here's a zone, but it's Jaden, Dane, it was in the middle. It wasn't always great, but it was effective at times. I was like, that's interesting. I like that. Can they kind of just become a team that has multiple pitches within this roster context? It's so interesting and kind of difficult to be a defense that throws multiple pitches when your best pitch is Rudy Gobert. They've had to deal with this, going back to Kat of like, all right, we love Rudy in a drop, but once we take Rudy off the floor, Kat's out there at the five. We hate Kat in a drop. We like Kat up at the level. Those things like that sound smart. It was in a vacuum. If you pulled up Nakaia's stats, you'd be like,

49:09okay, when they're at the level, it was better with Kat there, but what this team struggled with was awareness of like, it would happen all the time. The first pick and roll once Rudy would come off, they'd be like, wait, what are we in here? Because Kat's supposed to be up. They struggled with sort of throwing multiple pitches. That was true once Kat left even more so. You were never playing in a drop with Nas or Julius or if you did, it didn't work. I didn't think it was that hard to throw multiple pitches. I'm just telling you, I've been watching this for like four years and this team has been easier said than done. While being a very good defense, but I'm just saying how it felt was the players talked about it. It's hard. It's hard to split that switch of the significant coverage shift. I think that's where I brought this up with Steve earlier this week. Minnesota, I think, was 21st in switch rate last year. Just with the personnel that they have,

50:10even if it's just more one through four stuff so you can maintain Rudy in the back line, I would imagine that goes from 21st to 16, 21st to 21st to 15. Is that enough of an uptake? It's five with Yo-On that might switch with Baron J. That is five. Listen, I have a treat. I know Steve is also intrigued with Baron J. I guess as you brought it up, how do you feel about the non-Rudy minutes heading into the season so far? What do you anticipate they'll try to do? Where's the entry? Yeah. Well, I hated them last year. I'll tell you that. I hated. It was just everybody scored. The non-Rudy minutes were awesome offensive. It was like 120 something offensive rating because it was just Nas and Julius. They ran more, they scored, but the other team scored on them too. It was just like, it was one of those setups that you go, all right, this is fine in the regular season. It's a positive net rating, but you go, this is absolutely not going to work in the playoffs. It was so polarizing the other direction. I wonder if Baron J from a defensive perspective gives

51:14you something in the middle there where I liked when Nas started switching everything. I thought that was a nice wrinkle for them last season. Can Baron J do that? I think physically, yes. He's going to impress people with his feet and his athleticism and all that. He's still 19 or about to turn 20. I mean, I guess switching defense is about as simple as it gets if you're the five. But you know what I'm saying? I just don't know exactly how ready Yo-Anne is going to be come opening night when I'm assuming he's going to play all the non-Rudy minutes. It's just we haven't seen much of it. I have some concern there while also being very high on Baron J, but it gives them another option. I think the non-Rudy minutes needed another option last season. I think that's fair. I think between Baron J, between Steve, you alluded to some of the J in the five minutes that they dabbling last year. I do wonder

52:15how many different types of combinations they can get to. Where does Jalen fit into this? Where does Tairshan and Junior fit into this? How small can they get without completely ruining the defense? It's like a baseline question that I have when Rudy is off the floor. At least I don't have to anymore. At least it doesn't have to be like I'll start at the foreman. I was going crazy for two months. I was like, oh yeah, this is going to be fine. I'm like, no, it is not going to be fine if there's no power towards either team. Like to talk about copious, there was it was that. That was crazy for two months. This team needs at least one Jonathan. I still think they're like on guys who pin like physically guard in the front quarter or at the fore there. Like, thank God that like I owe at the fore or Shannon at the fore can be like changeups that they throw now. That was going to have to be if they didn't get Caminda. It was going to just be too much of that. And who was going to guard Yannis on opening night? I mean, it was yeah. That was not a real roster to

53:16mean. But now I like it. I like it more than I did earlier. I love that I can feel the angst in that answer. That's the best type. I'll look at this roster. Look at this rotation. What is this? It's fantasy lineup. It was like 11 guards. Rudy, another French kid. Yeah, we're good. That roster is not going to work. No way. No way. Fair enough. I didn't want to circle back. When we talked to Aunt, we talked to Bella. We talked a little Rudy. It has overall impact in the options behind him. This does as you've alluded to, Dane. I think this roster opens up some interesting possibilities for Jaina Middangels to be utilized slightly differently, defensively. Offensively, we have seen over the past few seasons where he's getting more comfortable attacking closeouts. We're seeing more of those decals. We'll get into like short mid-range shots. Okay, this feels good. At times, a little bit more audacious from three overall three point balling was down last year compared to the year before.

54:20But like the shot creation seems to be coming along. Some of the some of the comforts seem to be coming along. I guess broadly speaking, where are you at with Jaina Middangels heading into the year? And how do you expect them to look with this roster? What do you think changes for him with this roster content? I think it's a really good and sealing, sealing defining question is like what can Jaina do with this team? I think one thing that people might not put together, because you see Jaina on the floor, he still looks like a really skinny long dude, is I think you would think that he's very weak, you know, slight. It pushed around. And like that happens, I mean, he is light. But like he's tough. He's physical. And I think he's added a lot of like functional strength. And then people might apply that to defense and be like, okay, it'll be more physical. It depends. I think like the the growth in his body has helped his offensive game. I think that's like allowed. He gets that bump on the drive specifically. If he gets that bump and he releases it 611 over his

55:25like nobody's touching that like, when he's it, he can get that over anybody. And he did. And it was like a little 12 footers. Like I'd love those, you know, those felt like those felt like money. The question with him has always been especially in a regular season context. Like, what do we do to up the usage? The usage has remained low. And he's just been a backup option. He's ran so few picking roles over the course of his career. They don't dial up offense directly for him. So I think it's alluring in that, you know, what would this look like? Oh, Jaina can do more. He's not doing everything he could do yet. But we also haven't really seen it. So I think we're just going to see it. Once you take Julius out as sort of your forward creator, like I think a lot of that gets eaten up by both Jaden and Kaminga. So he's the usage, I think turns up here a bit, even if, you know, Aunt Lamello are pretty high usage themselves. Well, I think to your point,

56:26to add to it, the force and aggression that Jay Medaniel's played with throughout last season, like everyone can probably point to the playoffs and say that was the exclamation mark. But he had been doing that all season long. As far as hitting first, I'm not afraid to get to my spot. We'll do what it is. The interesting part for me is I wonder, does adding Lamello allow him to kind of stay within this pocket and have an opportunity for more usage, but not have to carry a lot of weight if that makes transition. And how does, yeah, how does Chris Finch balance that out? And so can you get some easier baskets to your point? Because again, one of the things I said, if we're going to have a stop and it's Jaden Medaniel's and Jonathan Kaminga running out and transition, good luck. With the anti-earth, we're just having fun. That's not going to be enjoyable. But with that confidence, Medaniel's had, hey, can I find the right pockets than what we're doing? Are we going to play a little bit faster to that ball squad side to side? And while I may not get every picking roll, I get more opportunities in what we're doing. So, okay, I can build on last year without Chris Finch having an ocumidance, say, hey, Jaden, you got to do X, Y and Z. Even though he will, it's just like, okay,

57:30is this context wise? Is this going to be a chance to get just a little one more natural umph for Jaden Medaniel's? Because I feel like to your point, he's one of the more important pieces of the scene with what he does on both ends of the four. You say, you say he will, which I agree, because he always has. He's always kind of accepted. Okay, you know, I'm like, this is where I'm at in the pecking order, but he's 26. It's like, if I was Jaden, I'd kind of be like, yeah, I'm, I'm ready to do more here. I expect to do more here. Um, you know, he's coming up on another contract here that he's, you know, eligible to sign in the coming years. I think if I'm Jaden, you know, I know I'm going to get paid based on my all defense and being a very good offensive player, but you start talking about like being a max player. If, if you're showing a lot more offensively there too. So Jaden's always been a great soldier in all of this. And I think like his progression has again, from a usage standpoint, has been stunted by the moves that they've made.

58:36I don't know. Man, if I, I'm just saying, if I was Jaden, McDaniel's, I'd be like, I, I'm expecting the ball more here. And like, let's make this, let's make this happen. You know, it's just, that's just human, I think. Yeah. I think not a one to one comparison. So I will say that of top, but like, it gives me shades of like Dylan Brooks goes to Phoenix. And then often he's everything 20 when he gets more usage. And it's like, okay, he has more room to explore in the middle of the floor. Obviously, Anthony Edwards is here. Lamella ball is here. So like Jaden is not going to get that. But I do think with Julius Randall out the door now, does he feel like he just has more room to explore within the half court? I think the transition stuff is pretty, you have the mellow. You're going to get these long outlet passes. You should just get the wolf should just have more possessions per game this year. And thus more scoring opportunity. So like, that should help on that front. Within the half court, do you just dial up some more of the simple that let's just get a pen down for Jaden. The curl and get a catch it every go line. And let's just let them go. Like, I think there's room. Yeah. Go ahead. I was going to say like, I think there's

59:39probably more room for him to explore. And thus this could lead to maybe not like a full blown leap just because the usage is still going to be kept with two guards that you have. But like, if he goes from 14 points for game to 16 and a half or 17 with his defense, then yeah, we're talking about a very major payday, whatever Jaden made down six L before. But he's going to get that anyway. But I think there is more room to kind of showcase what the offense of utility is. Like, again, three point volume was down for him last year. But watching him shoot against contest last year, I was like, okay, he's doing that a little bit more comfortably than I've seen him in years past. Like, there is a five threes again. That's not a monster's number. Like, there's a five threes game season. For Jaden, it's I think from an attempt standpoint, in addition to the growth as a driver. And if you are getting, if he has less on ball responsibility defensively, he's more of a room room with some of the guys having a room now. Does he now have more energy to give more on the offensive end and showcase more for the game? I'm pretty excited for him within this conflict. The guy said, is this like natural inclination to not shoot the three? Like, that's how I talked to him.

1:00:41I mean, like, he doesn't, he takes them because he understands this is an open corner three. And you need to take any shot. I'm at a really high rate last season. But like, you know, the feeling, right? Like when you when you catch it out there and you're like, oh, I'm excited to catch it from three and get this up. Or you're the catch it go type of guy who's looking to have the pump and go. And that is Jaden is the latter. Like he wants to go and that goes back to high school like that. That was his game. He wants to play. He wants to get you to 10 feet. And if he can get you all the way to the rim and finish that way. And that's why like, I think he's a volatile three point shooter. Like when he gets frustrated in a game, you know, that feels more forced or the volume goes down like, but I thought last season he did a really good job of taking the ones he had to. And like as a coach, right? Like that would be you reward a guy who's taking the one that stands

1:01:41in the corner and takes the corner three that you need them to by involving him in the offense in an additional ways. I would have brought up Daniel Russell before. But I've been thinking about Daniel Russell and Lamellabal as a as a comparison with this team. Dilo and Jaden had great chemistry. And I just think there's a lot for him. There's a lot of meat on the bone of just cutting, just presenting himself rather than just being sort of put in the corner to stay there. Because I don't think Jaden wants to stay in the corner. That's what I guess I'll say. Well, I think this day because well, it's going to ask one question. I was going to pivot because we talked about Jamie Daniels. We talked about, you know, the big three. We talked about the new additions. How do we feel about Iodosumu coming back to Minnesota and having a full kind of go round within the context where we saw flashes of, okay, I think his drives can help. I think he can defend some multiple players. Oh, he did that in the playoffs. It might not be that. But is

1:02:43there a what's the what's the feel for what he could add to this team going forward? What I felt when Iod came here last season was an instant, like, introduction of pace and just running and intention of going with pace. Him and Bones Highland got a little chemistry going where they were both running together. And I thought that was that really helped this team boost their transition frequency. If you remember the game where Anthony Edwards and Dante Diven-Trenzo get got hurt, you know, they won that game. And it's because Iod ran and they pushed the pace. And it was like the first time this team has been talking about pace and speeding it up for years. But if you go 23, 24 season, the best season, right? When they beat Denver and went to a Western conference finals, 28th in transition frequency. Then the first year of Julius 27th in transition frequency. And those are good teams, right? Then they finally got it up to 14th. They got it up to middle of the pack last season. And that's just a must. And I think

1:03:48they had, I mean, had to address it with roster changes. They had to bring in, they had to bring an aisle because the reality of the situation is aunt, Jaden and Rudy and Mike Conley, if you go back, like, are just not naturally inclined transition players. They need people who can pull them along. And I think in a very short amount of time, I'll kind of convinced the group to run. And like, I know you're asking about I.O. But it's part of the reason I believe like the mellows pace is going to work because when I started running last year, aunt followed. And I remember saying one time, he was like, I don't like running. But it's the only way I'm going to get the ball. I got to run with them if I'm going to get the ball from I.O. You know, like he said that. And he did it. He did it. He did run when he was, he was with them. So I just think like part of this being a top five top three offense, if we want to get optimistic with it, it just has to be, you got to be like at least top 10 in the frequency with which you're with which you're

1:04:49getting out and transition. And that has not been Timberlake's basketball for this whole Anthony Edwards era. Even though he seems like a transition guy, he is that they have not been a transition team. I have one last question on my end because I mentioned Timberlake's basketball. And you mentioned obviously you've done tremendous work over the stretch and beyond. What is the one thing the world outside of Minnesota is missing about Chris Finch? What would you say that is? I think it is the best way I can describe it is Chris Finch went and lived overseas and coach overseas for 17 years. And then he went into the G league from there. And he is just interacted with every different possible type of person in those 20 some years of coaching basketball. And specifically not in the NBA, you know, just like a whole eclectic group of people

1:05:52from different countries, different ethnicities, all that. I think people see the like yelling pissed off competitor Finch on the sideline. And they go like a little tibzzy with it, you know, like some association there. And and that I think that is tibzzy strength. You know, he's like a shaker and enforcer. But like actually Finches is a relationship sky. And I don't think people really get that about him. I think it's, you know, as a 50 something year old white dude, you know, it's, I think it's very impressive the relationships that he's developed with all sorts of different people of different backgrounds, different ages. Like he's really good at that. And I don't know, obviously that's just kind of hard to tell just when you're watching a game. But it hasn't been hard to tell, you know, covering him for the last five or six years, whatever it's been. Oh, that's fair. Like I wonder like just how much of the relationship building comes into. I think

1:06:54one of the outside complaints I see for Chris Finch is on my time by the stuff is like how quickly does he make changes? How quickly do you want to be in something on the court? How quickly does it want to make rotation changes? But I think you are then Steve hits on this all the time and has to adopt the history of this podcast. Like you have to talk to these people every day. You have to build these kind of relationships. Even if you do want to pivot in some kind of way, you got to have the equity bank then to make that decision without losing your player in the process. It's a crispy thing. There's been a lot of those conversations that have had to happen. I guess why we're on French one of the last things I want to ask you, this is going to be a very different roster for him and thus there may be some skiing tweets and things like that. There's also going to be of different staff for him with my Kenora in Portland. Just how do you anticipate him handling all of these changes? Getting into the year. Being more hands on, I mean he's already,

1:07:54he's already said that on the record like kind of taken back over the offense. Which like he came in, I didn't really know Chris Finch from Adam when he came in here but you all heard the like, oh he's this offensive mastermind. This and that like that was the PR of Chris Finch coming in and that's just interesting. He comes in and basically almost immediately inherits a Rudy Gobert team and what Finch did, I think is smart from a coaching standpoint. It was like, well we're going to be a defensive team. So I'm going to be first and foremost hands on defensively there. Again, other than the D'Angelo Russell Patrick Beverly season where I think he was a little bit more offensively focused because that's what that team's superpower was. We haven't really seen super hands on Chris Finch. I think offensively and that's going to be his main focus. It's going to be his opportunity to sort of prove the offensive mastermind piece of all of this, right? Because

1:09:02I think for the first time he has the personnel on this roster to actually be like, yeah, we can, this has the capability of being the best offensive team in the NBA or like second best offensive team in the NBA. And I think Finch will focus more on pursuing that this season than he has on another season. And again, that's the indication of the shift of this team. When they were, when they the 23-24 season, there were 13th on offense and first on defense. And that's kind of been the way it was this has been for the past couple years. That flips now. Like you got to go be first on offense, right? Like the championship version of the Minnesota Timberwolves is that. So I don't honestly, I don't really know exactly what that's all going to entail. But I think from a Finch standpoint, it's fair to say that it'll be, it'll be different. Well, that's all got you, got you. I just say quickly, very cool that we are going to get like Cheryl Reeve, Olivia Miles on one end. And now we have Chris Finch and LeLivellaball on the other end. And just like similar,

1:10:06how are you going to accept the wild no look pass that goes out of bounds? Because you just have to eat some of those to get the full experience of your starboard guard. It's I'm excited to watch that with just as a basketball fan. But find a question that I have for you on the bench. Well, did you have a new one? Well, I was going to say I've been seeing like 90 mile an hour passes thrown over the head of the guy in the corner from Julius Randall for the last two seasons. So we're like, we're pretty used to the crazy passes over over here. But yeah, I mean, it all serious this, right? Like at this time of year, we we focus, but something new has happened. We focus on all the exciting things that a player like Lamello or Caminga can can bring. But yeah, what ultimately defines these things, right? It's like how much how little bad stuff do you do? And for Lamello to to get to an even higher level, he needs to have better decision making. And I think that's true for the whole team. I don't think this is an above average decision making team right now. And

1:11:10again, that goes back to maturity and that goes back to coaching. Um, Lamello's got to, he's got to step it up there because that's the weakness, right? But what a like defense and decision making, that's it. Um, that's on the mellow. Understood, understood. All right, final question I have for you, kind of related to the fantasy and just putting all this together. What do you think Minnesota's best lineup is going to be this season? Hmm. What do you think? Oh, reverse card. It's slammed on the deck. Oh, damn. That's good. And I didn't do it. That's the real. I don't use the same thing with I listen. But no, and I'll see. Yeah. There we go. It also is I think it's going to be Lamello and I.O. J. and that's probably the five band group that I am most excited about. And I feel like that's probably the best way that you can actually get to some J net before alignments. And so that's

1:12:14probably what I would lean that that's what I think this is going to be their best line. I don't know that's going to be their official closing one. But that's I think that's where I'm at. Yeah, I mean, I definitely spent most of the summer trying to talk myself into that because there wasn't the coming option. We went over it before like I think J didn't can play the four, but J didn't has guarded once or the, you know, the primary ballhand of the whole time. Like we can we can say J didn't at the four and be excited about that. But we also need to like download that that it would be new, you know, that would be a different version of J. McDaniel's there. And I love J didn't off balls. I go a secondary room protector. I would have concerns about that lineup against teams who have bigger front courts. Right? Like I J didn't is an elite defender, but I don't want him guarding Yannis. I don't want that to be his his primary matchup there. I like the way I've been putting it on my show is when the team

1:13:15was so small, I was like, okay, they traded away Julius Randall. Not when they played Julius Randall next season guard Julius Randall. You know what I'm saying? Like it's that type of guy. Like which isn't even that high of a bar, but I that might be their best lineup, Nekias. But I think Julius Randall gives that lineup 40. I just that that's how I think that, but now that you got coming on, this is why the coming up piece is so important is like you don't just have to take that beating if you don't want to. Like you remember like coming a guarded cat a little bit in the in the first round like there's I have a I have more confidence about like the physical the degree of physicality that this team can get to and I'm concerned about it. If it's J didn't at the four, though I don't know you're probably right at the end of the day like the top net rating it might end up being that because you're going against some second units and stuff probably when you get to it. But that might be the best. I just don't think it's like flawless, right? They're going to have to blend all of this stuff like that that's what I think this team

1:14:18is just going to be about in general. It's like effectively blending one of Ant and the mellow on the floor at all times like I don't really care what the best lineup is like what how does this all sit together and I'm saying like I feel it feels like that to me. I think that is more than fair. Well, they actually I lied. I have one more question for you. Where can the people find you? What do you have coming up soon? Pouring question. No. You could listen to everything we do. I cover the wolves like a beat reporter traveling with the team and doing all that. My show is the other like reporters who who cover the wolves kind of a rotating guest list of that. Sort of like honestly like the vision for the show was trying to talk about one team the way that shows like yours

1:15:22and Zach show you know talk about the league the league nationally. Sort of taking that national lens and applying it to a single team and yeah it's if you're looking for your LeMelo ball fill or your whatever cominga and yeah well we'll have a lot of cool stuff coming this season. There we go thank you. Thank you, Dan. I'm rocking with this and then we return team USA finally played their first game. We have something to react to finally excited talk about this will Steve. Please stay tuned. McDonald's is putting value back on the menu. Whether you're craving a big Mac McNuggets or sausage egg and cheese McGrittle's make it a meal and save. Your favorite is now your wallet's favorite too. Extra value meals are back. Sun rises prices fall get a sausage McMuffin with egg or sausage egg

1:16:28and cheese McGrittle's small hot coffee and hash frowns for just six stars. Price and participation may vary promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. Ba da ba ba ba. And we are back with this episode of The Dunker Spy and Steve we have some breaking news as we shift to the WSI and by breaking news I mean literally as we record this very podcast on Friday morning. Kathy Engelbert is going to be retiring at the end of the calendar year. The WMBA will have a new commissioner ahead of the 2027 WMBA season. This has been over seven years of Commissioner work from Kathy Engelbert W's first official commissioner at least entitled. I'm processing this in real time. I'm going to be honest with you like this is shocking that the announcement came today like there were questions asked of Kathy during all star weekend and it was notable that she didn't directly answer yes or no if she plans to be the commissioner next year that seems a lot

1:17:31more pertinent now as we get this announcement and as we have some of these article rolled out from Doug Feinberg of the AP and others. This is shocking to me that this is when we're getting this news and this is how we're reacting to this. I guess I will swing the rock to you just your initial live thoughts on the Kathy Engelbert retirement announcement. I mean it's weird to see hit me real time. There's a lot of people talked about and now it's here and now okay what's the aftermath what we're doing now. I think that for me we had a lot of discussions about Kathy as a WME commissioner. I always said Kathy came in it was very clear hey I'm here to make sure we get the bag and through that lens there's no doubt Kathy went ahead and accomplished those things and I think the W that she came into and the W we have now put you different places. Yeah. There are obviously a lot of growth points that you have to hit the game has grown so there are

1:18:35different questions than we had when Kathy first got there but I think Kathy put a lot of work into make sure hey there are certain things I had to accomplish I got it done. It's just from the sea just read some of the quotes real quick be like hey I only meant to be here three and a half years I was here for seven plus so yeah it's time now it's it's going to be interesting to see what that means going forward with everything that's happening. For me I understand the criticisms I understand the complaints I will say the grass isn't always greener and so sometimes it's better to know the person that you know as opposed to the person you know so it'll be interesting to see what the succession plan looks like who ends up being the next WME commissioner. The game is in a tremendous place. Women's basketball is in a tremendous place. The only hope I have is it continues moving forward so processing as well but I think you know Kathy did what Kathy set out to do. I don't

1:19:38think there's many doubts about that. Yeah like the final two-year point the financial reality of the W is just in an astronomically different place than it was when she hopped in 2019 to where we have more expansion teams coming in new TV deal the charter flight system is just overall like we just have consistent charter flights which has led to like the first round of playoffs changing. We have the 1-1-1 now because we can the teams can just fly back and forth like there has been so much growth on and off the floor even in the midst of like criticism of things like you know all start weekend and how it's handled like there are so many more activations there's so many more sponsors to your point she has absolutely added not just debag multiple bags to the WU that's helped set up this future generation and as you mentioned that does not go without criticism there are plenty of things that could have been handled better and so as we enter this new phase and I think you kind of echo some of the sentiments that players have had when asked about Kathy was like we respect the financial growth that you've helped usher in but there are now more on court issues that we have

1:20:43to filter in like player safety things that we have to filter in that we feel like we may need a different voice or a different lens or different style of leadership to help answer those questions as we continue to grow and so right there with you Steve whoever is next and I could that's kind of the slight downside of react to this as you know the press release dropped like 20 minutes ago literally as we recorded it's like not having a real handle on who the contingency options are at this stage at least as of recording like is this going to be an internal in the WFN office thing is this going to be someone from the NBA side that's kind of been in those offices in those worlds that they're going to transport over is it an entirely new voice I know people are very complimentary of Neko Guma Kay who's also retiring even Neko said like now I'm going to need some time to like learn before I even try to step into that if I ever want to do that but I do just have a general question though is this going to end up being a former player that has been involved in the WNBPA or something like that I just literally do not know as we record and so I'm excited as the weekend

1:21:45expands and as the season expands we're going to get more information on like who's being considered I would imagine but they do have to nail this because you want that growth to continue and you also want those other factors where Kathy may have fallen short you want those to be answered as well so look the the game has come too far to go backwards until whatever the next phase is whoever steps up next I hope to understand the assignment and I hope we continue on this path it's too important I'm right there with you I am right there with you so again we'll have more caskies as they come in moving forward we can now shift to some actual basketball speed because the reason we are recording later on the Friday morning is because team USA had their first game if people world cup play earlier this morning they took on China they win by 33 points every member of team USA's roster scored in this basketball games Steve and so I will open the floor for you what were some of your broader takeaways from this matchup well I mean I think that I'm more

1:22:50in thing with Team USA is it's always fun to watch this collection of talent come together to watch the best of the world all on the same side to degree and form and evolve as a team I think that's the journey of Team USA a lot of times you can talk about who's going to play who's going to start that's not the that's not that's not what it's about you have to look at the big picture you look at the vision for Team USA and I think what they did again against China was showcase that vision and it gave better it gave better the after remember is this has to come together very quickly and you end up having to figure out a lot of things on the fly and I think that's why when you look at who gets selected who gets chosen there is a level of continuity that ends up being value because you need that you need to have a level of understanding and commitment and uh you know just what this is what we need to do you need to have that understanding in there the biggest thing is there's a wave of talent on this team there's a wave of line-ups on this team there are different combinations playing together to accomplish different things and that allows

1:23:51team USA to kind of put pressure on you in different ways depth is their strength and a lot of these players coming together it's shorter stance and it's always like it's fun like a nice little treat to a degree because we've watched these players play heavy minutes against each other right and then you watch them play together and it's like oh that's right we don't have anything going we can just fall into a Chelsea Grace stewie pick and roll defense reacts and that's a kick to oh that's Ryan Howard wide open that's Caitlin's hard white you know what I mean it's kind of like a mind melda at the first game where it's like oh that's right they're all playing together it's so you kind of get to enjoy but understand and watch this team grow because it's like this tournament is a sprint games two and three for team USA are a back-to-back to me my mind goes to the way they constructed this in the way that they played this gaming it's China one you have the old China size that was going to be interesting you're gonna have to handle that but the way this

1:24:53Russia is constructed we're always gonna have really good guard play out there and we're always gonna have biggs we believe in to have to cause havoc on both ends and so I think when you start with the starting lineup it's not just about experience and the veterans I thought that was about setting the tone on defense but just watching visually trying to run offense against an active Jackie young an active collier cop who by the way just remind her whenever a cop puts on a team USA jersey 95 overall plus just happens an active stewie an active defeats a collier that's not the most fun thing in the world and you could tell throughout this game how important the defense was to team USA because when they were able to get in transition when they were able to flow an attack before a defense is fully set it's a lot tougher to deal with and so I thought that was kind of the fun to kind of watch who's playing with whom what's opening up what are the roles that people are asked to do so you look at Chelsea Gray it's like yeah I am going to be the point guard so things right

1:25:54down run an action with me if we get a stop I'm throwing ahead this is what we're doing like okay I can navigate some of our half court stuff that we have to figure out when you throw Caitlyn Clark in there now injection of pace get up and down the court give me the ball I'm getting it up quick if I got if I got a throw ahead in transition it's gone but we're getting into our stuff quick and now you have a balance you have two different type of team you have to deal with and that's where I think things get really fun like Ryan Howard I think to a degree set the tone making threes taking threes insane the type of shots that she ends up getting on this team where it's just like hey actually space oh Ryan Howard's wide open yeah I understand it but I think the dynamic they set is what's important right and I think it's gonna be interesting to see offensively I think driving kick was there for them like the actions only somebody actually can hit and trying to reign a lot of zone in this game so you got some good reps against own defense not sure I'm

1:26:55sure you'll see it going forward but at least you saw it now and you got an experience against it but balancing out okay how much do we want to attack in transition how much do we want to be aggressive early in the clock how much do we want to try and get the best shot possible and how much do we want to impose our talent that's going to be the challenge for T USA within games one two and three before you get to the knock-around but I thought pay the card stream and this I think everyone we go up down the roster and we will everyone's good but I thought Jackie you know it was very aggressive like it's just really on your little things that you see like yeah you watch the FISA Collier in the Minnesota links in the reign of post ups hit that's a lot harder to deal with in T USA right like you watch you watch doing on the perimeter or late in clock and get to one two dribble pull up in the paint it's a lot harder to deal with after you've had to guard a couple different things so that was kind of my first impression just kind of like lay the foundation lay what it what the idea may be and let's see what it turns into yeah no I love what you said

1:28:00there and I think for me the wave effect popped for me broadly speaking with T USA and how do you want to kind of layer their attacks the defense for me is kind of where I wanted to start and I think you nailed it at the beginning with how lineup helps set the tone but like seeing how in wind they mix in their ball pressure because it wasn't always like full court pick up something like that you get near half court here's a body but as you try to run flow into like an entry pass to the elbow or something lifting above the break all of those catches are being challenged like it's one of my favorite micro skills for the fecalier defensively specifically but it's what a home in all one you watch her in Minnesota if you're trying to get into any kind of like delay action or something like that the fecalier is in your grill when you catch the basketball and it is disrupting the time and go whatever hand off you want to flow into or pitch into a pick or roll whatever case may be now you have her doing it stewie doing it when you get some subs here comes angel Rish he's also pressuring catches is just like it's such a small thing but I was wowed by how often China was

1:29:03working deep in the clock in that game but specs especially in the first half it just felt like so many of their possessions one just lit ended in post those because of the size but also it took them so long to even get to some of those entries because of how USA was extending their pressure not too much to where they were opening up drives behind them but yeah it's fun stuff you're trying to run you can't get to it in time and so that ball pressure the screen navigation their ability to flow into late switches as seamlessly as they did it's a big hat tip to having brand of Stewart having a fecalier having injuries eventually having kiki area fin who also slotted into that it was tough for China to find their openings and when you are able to establish that foundation defensively in Lord knows carol Austin is going to work to establish a defensive identity for her basketball teams it makes life easier to sort things out offensively where as you mentioned what they did seem a lot of zone go ahead well before you leave the offense let's stick with the defense

1:30:03I just brought it up let's stare at there it's it it's hard not to look at the sidelines and see coach loss in coach Nikola say coach white coach Tibits and not think oh this team wants to guard right anything to add to what you said there was a strong emphasis on activity from team USA in this game and I thought the one thing that stood out was there was good nuance as well especially for game one right there were different things that they were able to attempt like stewie and or fee being a drop help from the weak side on drives okay so if you think you have a lane a stunts going to be there we'll see if it opens up a three but we're cutting the lane off we might go to a late switch we might go to a switch we might mix and under so against your handoffs and so I think yes having the ability to kind of toggle through things in real time is helpful for team USA for one having a confidence to like get multiple schemes and having to understand okay this is how we want to cover it but number two as you go through this tournament you're gonna face different challenges you're gonna face different teams we're gonna try and poke you in different ways you're gonna have to be able to find a

1:31:04comfort to where it's not necessarily hey we do this you know I mean we see at times we're a team USA active ball pressure gonna overwhelm you no we need to be able to have multiple pitches in our bat pocket so I thought they were able to kind of throw some different things out there I'm keeping an eye on the picking roll defense there are most where they kind of got dinged by China size and they were able to get loose on a couple rolls so depending on who the help was they were forced to commit help and now you're able to get basket basket so you want to make sure you clean that up but I thought as you stated early as they went through different lineups the ball pressure picked up the activity picked up and so for against some groups it's denials they're hey you're not passing until when you're not getting about to the top of the key you're not getting it to the elbow it's something it's hey you're there's no drives available we're protecting the paint and so they're able to kind of present a couple different challenges the teams which I think is going to be important going forward just individual shout outs I want to get to before I forget because my brain goes a hundred miles from out sometimes a Leo Boston the work that she did battling on the block

1:32:06trying to deny some of those post touches or just push them out phenomenal job kicky area of fin angioree same thing angel again with the late switches and things well yeah they had to deal with they had to deal with you they had to deal with you yeah that's that game of ball they said that gave me the ball please Z with Z you came and said I'm hitting you I'm posting up you got to deal with me in this second half you saw okay when that ball go up we try and snatch it if that ball goes up we'll be trying to so that to your point was very interesting to watch that better one for continue no it was funny and I tweeted that tweeted about this watching the bigs get progressively more annoyed by the whistles that she was hitting because like you get the entry pass off finally and it's like slow turn into shot it's like it's not like she's leaving the ground on somebody shot attempt so it's just like okay cool I can jump high point this or whatever you blocked the first one but it's not an aggressive enough swat to where the ball

1:33:08is like leaving the area and so it's just retained possession second shot attempt we get that one too whistle and this is it angels just like dog what a Leo boss is like what what do you mean so like that that just made me laugh in the midst of all this but like no the bigs did great work page backers who we're gonna talk about the offense because the fourth quarter was electric but I was impressed with her defense did entire basketball game she had to defend the multiple post-ups in this basketball game and held serve more than held serve her activity popped for me in that regard as well and so I just wanted to get into so quick the challenge before we should sit up no that's fine it was kind of going that page in a way I wasn't ready for I was like oh like I wasn't ready for that but anyone yeah challenge what did you have offensively or did you have question marks for you I think I guess to start the conversation with a question I want to ask you about the second quarter specifically because that felt like the most

1:34:09it felt like the oddest quarter for team USA of the game for them this was when like trying to went to the zone midway through the first quarter so it wasn't necessarily new but it didn't feel like the zone was a little bit more effective in the second quarter it also felt like team USA missed a lot of shots so I kind of just want to ask you as you were watching how much of the second quarter low for them felt like China is doing something to them to bother them or they are not executing versus they just missed shots I mean I'm not to be pull a steam answer out but I feel it goes to mix of all three to a degree right like the zone was there for a purpose because team USA come off to a hot start so we want to make sure we bother this down a little bit they it's not that zone was new in the second quarter you just weren't making the shots to the same level as you were in the first I think to me when you look at those okay what type of shots are we creating and are we finding consistency and I think it's a overall thinking point for team USA as far as how do we balance those things out right like do we take the first shot available are we gonna be able to create different things so I think

1:35:11for me it's a zone you you saw it evolve throughout the game where okay let's calm down let's get someone in the middle and now we know they're gonna react and we can play out of it I thought that was the important growth point for them so while the second quarter didn't feel as good because they weren't making the same amount of threes I became out the gates making that ton of threes second quarter they didn't buy one to save their life so how much of that is execution and how much of that is okay we did not down shots exactly like I think the question you would ask any team USA coaches okay did you like the shots that you got and I think it was just trying to figure out okay how do we get to those so are we trying to run picking roll against the zone which I think may have disrupted them in the second quarter because ideally right so I said corner lineup I think it was like Katen Clark out there with feed Sony's to Tronkey you may want to run more picking roll because Katen is out there do you want to run more picking roll it's a zone are we thinking about the zone or we just

1:36:11trying to play through it so I think that second quarter was a learning bubble to degree as far as do we want to lean on running and doing what we do in our talent or do we want to just specifically attack that zone I think you saw it between the second third and fourth quarter okay they're in zone cool we can run a picking roll we don't have anything someone flash the middle gets in the middle see how they react get a cut from the week side like there were different moments where they felt comfortable so even when they were missing as the game progressed it didn't have the same feeling that second quarter where it's like oh what are they going to do and here's the thing yeah how many days of practice have they had together I think you did the zone offense reps copy and pasted like this is where it's like yeah we got to figure things out on the fly and use like not just our talent but also kind of find our brain power yeah no that's fair like I also talked about this during the middle you media availability earlier this week where it's just like somebody's players have been here longer than others because their teams had their breaks earlier or later than others like some

1:37:15teams played their final game on Friday so I'm playing played through Sunday you know it's just like okay I don't know when everyone's coming in and that's before getting into well I guess I don't literally know when everyone found out that Asian Kelsey weren't going to be there but like how that may have impacted when people are flying in and stuff like that so to your point there is just going to be a general learning curve like I think to answer my own question it felt more like like you said just kind of working through things it felt I even tweeted out like I feel fine about what the actual process of the offense is it did feel a little slower and like some of that is them trying to call out directions some of that was the way China was sending help within the zone I think kind of bought things down and when you don't have defense three and a key you have this size of the middle like you don't get the same deep paint touches even with those flash if you can't like set up high loads of stuff like that to the same degree and so I think all of that kind of fact it into this feels a little bit slower the shopping isn't the same but like none of it feels bad per se so I just want to get your thoughts on that uh seems to be watching together I guess outside said quarter Steve what did you like from the offense well I mean I think the biggest thing was

1:38:18the drives were important I thought the aggression was important I thought the compliment already played between the guards and the beings were important I think what you saw was a level the guards kind of been posing their will to a degree and I think the drive and kick was there so if they didn't have transition and I didn't quite have this but the flow they wanted to get to the next action to go side to side automatically they could trust the ability to drive in this game I think that was key and saw different combinations kind of have a good time playing this each other and so I didn't feel like a guard in this lineup was uncomfortable in this game as far as being able to get to the spots they want to now there'll be an option to see as this tournament goes on does something they can rely on well they have to kind of clean up the flow again like they're gonna have to find that balance between being aggressive working at the best shot and flowing out of it but they got a lot of talent and they're willing to share the ball and so I think that's where okay how do we balance get into our pressure points what are our pressure points depending on the matchup and then can we nail those on top of just kind of playing the game

1:39:22but I thought the guard play was excellent right like you kind of saw Jackie Young be super aggressive right they hot Chelsea Gray just kept things running and I think as the game progressed obviously team US it was up look Caitlin Clark and Paige Becker's playing off each other that second half and that fourth quarter boy they had a lot of fun they had a blast playing together and so okay if we're able to kind of have a wave of guard play that understands what we can do that can get to drive and get to can get downhill get the paint can get skip passes like we can establish that and this wasn't even a big game to degree and that's crazy thinking about the type of bigs that team USA has yeah right but you eventually you're gonna have to deal with Stewart you have to deal with Neufice Caller you have to deal with Ainsre Rees you have to deal with Lee Aboston like that's where I think it gets ties back into the big picture of there's a lot of talent what's best for each combination what's best for our team overall it's a hard thing to manage and change because I think different teams are gonna try different things different line-ups are

1:40:24gonna be able to do different things that's kind of gonna be the challenge for team USA you got to harness that quick by the overall it felt like they found more comfort throughout the game flow is gonna be important different actions to be important who's cutting when when are we screening on second side like I don't think the initial action for this team is gonna be the deal I think it's gonna be how much comfort can we get if we need to get deeper in the clock yeah I think to that end that's where it was fun to me to watch some of the secondary picking roles within their offense because that's where you really saw some of the cutting pop out like there's one position kind of burned in my brain where they float on one side it doesn't work as they're going to the other Ryan Howard just jets from the left wing into the paint and then that flows into I think a Caitlyn a Leo picking role wouldn't be side a Leo gets touched gets a finish it's just like okay this is what it can look like but then you also have the possessions where early on okay we can go double drag with Caitlyn's ball handler she can't just turn the corner and go and besides she got her first

1:41:28and watered the game it's like okay we do still have this juice so you're overall driving kick point that you've been hammering home and so when they do find that consistent blend we can hit you early if you're not ready and also we can work deeper into the clock as you mentioned like that's where you feel the full wave on top of the defense they can talk so it's on the other end so I was mostly okay with the team USA offense today like three points shooting was super hot in the first quarter cooled off a little bit as the game went on but like they did a really good job of working through things and as you hit up at the top the style slash pace shift when that second unit comes in when the younger turn group comes in boy is it a lot of fun it is a lot of fun I really enjoy like great Caitlyn Clark game very fun pagebackers game of offense and then again the scoring really pop in that fourth quarter when she just had jumper after jumper going et cetera but I think just in general the young group you got Kiki there so he's gonna be there like they're all I feel like they're all in the collective like I feel like you very much have your vets and then also your young way hmm why you go ahead uh I mean I think it was it's

1:42:35fascinating to kind of see I get there's discourse about this team do you see the group that played in the fourth quarter and how how well they played like it's it's kind of built towards hey that the young folks are gonna be all right there's putting a room for them to contribute and so it's gonna be like you got to experiment early to understand what combinations work together so for me I always when team USA comes together for qualifying or world cup I'm looking at a line of combinations okay so who were you putting together when are you putting them together what does that look like and so what kind of minutes they get but you get to that fourth quarter and it is as you said the young mature crew okay Caitlin Clark was also in there but this is the kind of just like we are having more of an avenue to explore and put pressure on you in different ways and so if the first unit does their job in a second you just you second unit does their job everyone kind of prosper but it's clear okay we had we lean our veterans everyone kind of has shorter stents but these were like things were popping like you know 621 here's a sub 516 here's

1:43:38a sub 405 in the first quarter here's a sub so you've got to give everything you got during this time period which is hard for team to do with hard to manage as far as making sure that we have the right combinations but if you have the understanding of what we want to accomplish yeah we can really shuffle this deck towards what we want to do I think that's the important part for team USA to establish early in this tournament yeah I think devise off of that Steve because when we had the qualifying games earlier this year one team USA just won all of them and won them handily but beyond it to the lineup point we did see different rotation patterns within those games we had different starting lineups within those games the question I will talk to you is do you anticipate lineup tweaks as this goes on from team USA you expect to see a different starting lineup on Sunday or Monday or is it really kind of building chemistry with this corporate and maybe shifting when they love it I think it's more shifting when they sub in how long the stents get if you get deeper in the water like I feel like you'll probably be quicker earlier in the tournament especially especially

1:44:40when the second game but I think different matchups will ask for different things so you know it's interesting win the league of Austin came in in this game may not be win the league of Austin comes in the next because league of Austin was tasked with a very specific thing to handle right so okay if we're not using league of Austin for this does that open up more for Angel Reese is there a city minister fee or stewie like okay Khan Ryan Howard kind of are going back and forth at the three so understood that I think you feel pretty comfortable with the the four you're gonna play at the one in two two degree it's gonna be Chelsea it's gonna be Jackie it's gonna be K-Land it's gonna be page so okay what nights are you gonna kind of lean into which side depending on what you need I think it's gonna be a second half how long these stents go are we search at first everything are we just gonna trust the wave will overwhelm yeah okay I like that I like that any other notes from this any possessions that stood out for you any player shout outs that we hadn't gotten to yet that you want to tap in here no I mean I think the the sequence where I think it was Caitlin Clark

1:45:47here Angel Reese Angel Reese finishes the left hand they go down Angel Reese switches gets a block is up to Caitlin Caitlin gets to Sony Sony finally it's a bucket in the basket I was like oh okay they're young the young folks are gonna be okay but I think it's more so just an overall impact like and I think this vision can get better they'll get tested in different ways but I think part of the fun of watching this team is we're watching all these players and while they've logged heavy minutes and they may not log a ton of minutes they're at not the peak of their prowess the playing really well it's like oh yeah that's right Jackie Young has been aggressive for the last month oh yeah that's right Ryan Howard is a microwave oh yeah that's right Stewie is deciding to get downhill and to hit people and get in the mid range oh yeah that's right fees back we're gonna post up like you just had like constant reminders of things you've seen over the last month and they're all on the same team like it felt like page is quiet until page had about 14 and a half 10 in the fourth quarter where it's like oh yeah that's right page wide open like you

1:46:48know what I mean and so there's just that's the fun of it to me is watching this team come together and I played high love I love that I love that I didn't have any other major notes to add like this was just a very good team USA performance on both ends of the floor to see how the chemistry builds how the offensive flow feels and if they have the main tank consistency I guess one quick China shout out give like in the first quarter they had like this two possession sequence where they went elevator got a three out of it next time down they're setting up the elevator again it's just like what XM is gonna drive while this is happening there's no help for team USA and say okay that's cool to see them kind of build that out and then obviously just a bunch of post ups yet to sort through for them as well but no very impressive team USA they view hey no beyond team USA I do have I do have a shout to give to Saki Hayashi nine three is in a game got him up my brain was barely functioning and did stop getting buckets so I want to give a salute there good night okay very well done

1:47:51very well done and with that thank you for listening to and or watching this episode of the Dunker Spot please subscribe if you haven't already we're on Apple Spotify RIP Google Stitcher pot being wherever get your podcast you can find us subscribe to the Yahoo Sports Man YouTube channel that's where all the W slash team USA content is gonna live subscribe to the Yahoo NBA YouTube channel that is where our NBA content is going to live you can follow me on socials at the highest NBA you call a Steve on socials sd Jones 20 and with that we will catch y'all on Tuesday