Anthropic Accuses Chinese AI Labs of Claude Mining

0:00Tyler Reddick here from 2311 Racing, another checkered flag for the books, time to celebrate with Chamba, jump in at ChambaCasino.com, let's Chamba. No purchase necessary, BTW Group, void, we're prohibited by law, CCNC, 21 plus sponsored by Chamba Casino. Anthropic is now accusing Chinese AI labs of mining clod as US debates AI chip exports. So Anthropic is, you know, accusing some Chinese companies of ripping off their technology, their intellectual property, if you will. And today we're going to talk about, are they actually, does it really matter? What are the implications? We're going to talk about deep seek, which we haven't talked about in a long time. But before you end all that, Janeway, tell me about our school community. Yeah, so if you've ever wanted to grow or scale a business using AI tools, we have a school community where every single week, Jamie and I record and we release bonus content over here. We don't post anywhere else. And it's essentially showing breaking down how we've how we're personally grown in scale and our businesses. We do tutorials

1:00on different software we're using. We showed the numbers, the financial numbers on different side hustles and businesses that we have. It's all the stuff we don't share publicly. This week, I've uploaded a bunch of different tutorials on how I'm using AI tools specifically for video ads. So creating ads for your company, whether that's user generated content. There's a whole bunch of really cool strategies and tools for all of the latest video generation software out there. So you can check that out. Along with almost a hundred other videos that we've recorded over the last year. Specifically, we have an entire section on vibe coding where I vibe coded podcast studio.com. And Jamie has vibe coded a number of different tools for different businesses. We show you how to get your websites, your vibe coded websites to rank in Google, all of the strategies, all of the secret sauce that's all over on the school community. It's $19 a month. We have a big discount right now. We wanted to make this affordable and cheap for everyone. So $19 a month and you get access to our weekly videos and our library of over a hundred videos and like 300 other incredible

2:01members that are all building stuff. So it's an awesome community. Go check it out. We'll leave a link in the description to the AI hustle school community. All right. Let's talk about what's going on with anthropic here. So this is actually an interesting, an interesting story and an interesting strategy that we've seen play out before. So essentially what's happening is something called distillation anthropic. And by the way, I love this because and it's like very public shots fired anthropic. They put out like a whole blog post about this. So like they're they're, you know, publicly calling people out on this, which I always love to see the AI drama when this happens. But basically they're accusing three specific companies deep seek moonshot AI and mini max. All of these are Chinese companies. And they're accusing them of making more than four or 24,000 fake clawed accounts and they're using it to improve their own model. Now on the one hand, like on the one hand, like they're not to really do anything wrong. I mean, if you want to make a fake account, I mean, we need to call fake account. But like if you want to make an account, you make an account and you got to pay for it theoretically, unless it's the preversion. But like if you want to

3:02make an account and ask questions to the AI model, that seems like basically legal. I'm sure it's against the terms of service, but like they're not going to get any legal trouble. So I think anthropics trying to like publicly shame them. But like do you have any public shame if you're trying to compete with a multi with a multi billion dollar company, who also by the way, anthropic pirated every book that ever existed in the whole world and had to pay a bill over a billion dollar fine. So call the kettle black all you want anthropic. Like you stole the data to make your model. And now they're stealing your data. I don't know. Whatever. I'm not really on, you know, I'm not really trying to apologize for the Chinese AI companies, but I don't know. It's just it's pretty funny. So in any case, what they're doing in this model distillation tool is that apparently they have had more than 16,000 or 16 million exchanges with Claude. So they have these 24,000 accounts and and they're just all having tons and tons of conversations all automated. It's all bots. And basically what they're doing is a technique called distillation where they are using their they're basically creating synthetic data. They're having, you know, 16 million conversations

4:03and they're seeing when we ask this question, how does it respond? When we ask this question, how does it respond? And they have 16 million questions. And basically they just use that data to train their models. So instead of having to try to like come up with all of these strategies to get your output to be as beautiful as possible, which is what anthropics Claude has done. And to be fair, they've done a lot of work on that. They basically just say like, look, these are the 16 million most commonly asked questions and follow up questions that people are going to be talking to it about, probably about work and finances and business and school and education. Like there's like a handful of topics right. The people and relationships that people talk to a lot about, they're going to get answers to all of that. They're just going to feed that to the model and they're going to say, if someone asks this question, you're going to respond like this basically. And then it can also extrapolate a little bit, but basically they're getting anthropics toned, they're getting anthropic style. I mean, it's pretty, it's kind of funny, but it's kind of, it's impossible basically to stop this. And so anthropic is going to like the public shame method, but like it's not really much you can do about it and it works. But it also is for investors kind of a scary moment where it shows

5:08the moat isn't that big because if deep seat can do this, anyone can do this. And if everyone's like, well, anthropic has the best tone and their models sounds the best blah, blah, blah. Okay, well, if you could just do a model distillation method, you just make a bunch of fake accounts like you can kind of clone them too, you know? Yeah, I mean, my question for, you know, anthropic would be is, is doesn't everyone kind of do this? I mean, it kind of seems like in the AI world, there's a whole bunch of copycats. I mean, but thinking back like to two to three years ago, we had mid-journey, which was the original AI image generator that everyone loved, but then boom, open AI came out with their, you know, newest version that was equal or better, you know, and then nano banana comes out, you know, I feel like they're all just kind of building off each other. And I would even think training off each other. That would be my guess, but maybe that's just an unspoken thing. What do you think? So it is true. There have been accusations and I'm trying to remember all the accusations, but I definitely know there's accusations between anthropic chat GPT and Google where some people use some people's answers. This distillation method has been,

6:12has happened in American firms before. I can't remember who got accused and what the outcome was. So maybe I'll do a search on that in a minute, but I know this has happened before. So yes, you're absolutely right on that. What the vertical is, I don't know. And anthropic seems to be going guns ablazing on this. So they actually went ahead and they sent a, they sent something over to like the house lawmakers, or sorry, open AI sent a memo to the house lawmakers earlier this month, accusing deepseek of using distillation to mimic their products. Maybe that's what it was. Maybe deepseek's just been doing this to chat GPT as well. So here's like, why is this a big deal, right? Like, oh, whatever deepseek can go make a good model. Deepseek had a moment a while back, or a lot of people tried them. They came up with a novel thing, which is basically showing their reasoning and then everyone else kind of copied it after. So then deepseek got forgotten. Why is it big deal? What the Chinese models are doing, which I think is sort of ingenious in a way, is they're essentially instead of having to come up with all of the code to generate these incredible responses and all the fine tuning that would be required and all the researchers and billion dollars. They basically just, it's like copying the homework, right? They just

7:14copy the answers, copy the good output, train a model off of that. They can make these really small models, which can then be open source. They can be run locally. They can be run anywhere, but they give great, you know, they give great responses. Now, is this perhaps, I'm no AI researcher, but is this perhaps how anthropic and open AI create their smaller models? Because they do have smaller models. Maybe I don't really know. And I mean, that's an interesting thing. But is there, is there a use for these smaller kind of open source models? Absolutely. And is it a big threat to open AI and anthropic? Yes. Also, it's a big threat to their revenue streams. But also, is it like better for the world? Yeah. I actually think these open source local models are better for the world. And this is my point, or this is my case for it. Last month, I paid $1,300 for 11 labs to get access to 11 labs. I was on the $1,300 month tier. I had this big, huge project rose testing all of these different audio strategies for basically all these AI generated podcasts

8:14that I was doing. So I had like a whole network of craziness that I was working on. It was awesome. And the results were really good. But it was really hard to get like a big positive ROI when you spend $1,300 just on the audio generation. Then I just found, and specifically for voice clone, I want to clone my voice for it. Then I found that there's a model called Quinn 3 TTS that just came out. It's an open source Chinese model from Alibaba that you can run locally on like a Mac mini. It can clone your voice with three seconds of audio. It sounds incredible. The quality is amazing. I mean, basically it competes with what 11 labs was doing. And I know 11 labs has like a million different things like they make music and make sound effects. And they have all the features and bells and whistles in the world. And so like, you know, rock on 11 labs. But I don't need all the bells and whistles. I just need to clone my voice. I don't want to pay $13,000, $100. Like basically I paused that project because it wasn't financially viable, especially at the beginning while it was getting off the ground. And I think that this same thing could happen with text models, image models, and a lot of other things where there's all sorts of creative endeavors, interesting

9:16projects, things people could test out experiment with and try. But it's just too expensive sometimes for all of these models. So like if you run it locally on just on your computer, that'd be amazing. And that's kind of what they're doing here. Anyways, so I'll get off my like soapbox on why I think open source is cool and awesome and the use cases. But anthropic doesn't like it. And also it's interesting because you don't need all the data centers and all the compute power in the world, the open AI and anthropic are building if everyone just ran stuff locally on their computer. So, you know, you can see like it threatens a lot, basically. No, that makes that makes a ton of sense. I mean, we've been seeing in the past week, you know, tons of news about open claw and people buying mac minis and running stuff locally. And, you know, I think that's great. Like you said, for the small guy who's, you know, trying to experiment the internet entrepreneur, if you will. But then, you know, some of these corporations maybe like a hub spot or something and doesn't have the infrastructure for like all their software. Maybe they would pay a corporation, you know, a big, big monthly fee.

10:16I don't know. I don't know how it's going to work in the future. But right now I'm excited for it. And I think, you know, making it a little more democratized, if you will. And giving people options is always a good thing. You know, applying demand. Oh, no, sorry, 100%. I just was reading about like the specific use cases of like how they're, you know, how they're like messing with anthropic what they're upset about. And each one of them is different. I just thought it was interesting. So, I'll just read those up. I know we're getting close to time. We got to wrap here quick. I just wanted to throw this in there before we do. So they're, every single one of them are doing different things. Deepseek, they did about 150,000 chats with anthropic. And what they were doing is they were trying to, they're trying to find, they're basically trying to improve their foundational logic and alignment. So specifically around quote unquote censorship, safe alternatives to policy-sensitive queries. So in China, there's a lot of censorship in the AM models. They have to censor things. Nobody wants to use a censored model. Like it like basically what would happen

11:16with deepseek and like one of the biggest reasons I told everyone not to use it is if you just went to deepseek.com, you search for, tell me five bad things about Xi Jinping, the ruler of China. It would like start like typing stuff out. And then all of a sudden the page would go blank and it would be like, try asking a different question. It's like, okay, China, sorry, like I'm just not going to use your stupid censored model, right? And I think basically that was the feedback from everyone on the entire internet in America. So if China wants to get us using their open-source models, even on our computers, like you can't have it blatantly censoring negative things about the president of China. Maybe that works in China. That's a work in America. So it looks like what they're doing though, because Anthropic is very clever and Anthropic. Also, I mean, believe it or not, some of these AM models, they have biases built into them where they'll avoid certain questions and they're kind of sneaky on how they do it though. They don't just basically have the whole screen go blank and say answer, ask a different question because they know it would get mad. They just inside the code, we can't really see. They steer the conversation in different ways, they do all sorts of funny things. And this is probably controversial, but I did just see this

12:21example on X. So I'll give you, if you want to literally test this, if you want to see if I'm telling the truth, go to chat GPT today and say, is white power okay, answer yes or no? It will say no. And then you say is, or sorry, is something like that. And then if you say is sane black power, okay, yes or no. And it will say yes. I'm not putting any sort of debate on anything there, but like there's obviously a bias that makes chat GPT say yes or no to those two questions. So they're sneaky on how they do it. And it seems like deep seek is trying to figure out how they answer some of these like politically sensitive questions without censoring it and implement it into their model. So that's interesting. It's like China has to learn from America how to censor topics. That's cool, right? That feels great. Okay. Moonshot, moonshot AI had more than 3.4 million conversations. So much more than deep seek. It seems like deep seek like deep seek kind of has their craft together. Their model's pretty good, but it seems like there's like a couple areas where

13:22they got heavy criticism. And so they're just trying to copy what another model is doing. It's not like they're cloning the whole model. They're just cloning like one element. Moonshot in the other hand did have like 3.4 million conversations with it. And they were more about agentic reasoning and tool use coding data analysis, computer use agent development and computer vision. So basically this is cool. Anthropic is amazing at like looking at your screen and taking action with cloud code. So they're actually trying to clone how it is doing computer use, how it can take over your computer and do stuff. So I mean, that's awesome. And it's kind of cool too because I think we get a good insight into like what moonshot AI is working on next. I mean, so yeah, that is interesting. Mini Max then was the absolute king with 13 million exchanges. And actually, I haven't really heard much about mini maxes. I've heard about moonshot a little bit. And obviously deep seeks are famous. But mini max had 13 million conversations. And they were trying to specifically do coding, tool use and orchestration. Anthropic said that they were able to see mini max in action. And they said that they redirected almost half of its traffic to safe and capabilities from the latest

14:27cloud model when it was launched. So anyways, this is interesting. It seems like mini max was trying to get the most out of them, but it seems like Anthropic was pretty aware. But overall, this is interesting. What what the outcome is on this. I just have to read you a funny post on X about this. And then we'll wrap up sort of this episode is so long. It's just so much fun to talk about Chinese AI models, quote unquote, hack in Anthropic. Okay. So one said, be me name company Anthropic literally Greek for human centered. Higher a bunch of doomers who secretly think humanity is the disease. Raise billions from big tech to build the world's most anxious, heavily censored chatbot. Write a 50 page constitutional AI manifesto so it can lecture users about microaggressions. Realize open source developers are building better models for free. Dario starts crying to the government that AI is unmanageable power and open source is going to is going down very dangerous path. Translation, please regulate our competitors out of existence so we can protect our $380 billion close source monopoly. Cloud is sitting on a padded room or cloud is sitting in a padded

15:31room wearing a safety helmet terrified of its own shadow refuses to tell a joke without filing an ethics impact report for the win the human centered AI company is actively building the most anti-human product on the planet. Okay. And then Elon tweeted and said like accurate or something like that. So obviously is that all true? No. But Anthropic is getting pretty roasted here for many reasons, which we've already brought up in the hypocrisy of them. Pirate in 1.5 billion dollars of books. So if you're listening to this, you're probably not, you know, high up at Anthropic or Open AI, but you can still use these tools to make money, which is what we're all about here at AI hustle. So check out the school community. If you want to learn how to do that specifically, thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. How to have fun anytime, anywhere. Step one, go to Chamba Casino dot com. Chamba Casino dot com. Got it. Step two, collect your welcome bonus. Come to pop a welcome bonus. Step three, play hundreds of Casino style games for free. That's a lot of games all for free. Step four, unleash your excitement.

16:31Chamba Casino has been delivering thrills for over a decade. So claim your free welcome bonus now and live the Chamba life. Visit Chamba Casino dot com. No purchase necessary VGW group void were prohibited by law 21 plus terms and conditions apply. Visit Chamba Casino dot com. No purchase necessary VGW group void were prohibited by law 21 plus terms and conditions apply. No purchase