Anna Kepner Case: What Shauntel Asked a Judge to Change

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2:01This is The Big Breakdown. A long look back at some of the biggest stories we're covering for you at the Hidden Killers Podcast and True Crime Today. This is Hidden Killers with Tony Bruce Lee. The cruise ship murder. That's the name that people have been using for this case in case you are not super familiar with it. Anna Kempner is the victim here. That's the young lady who lost her life on that, on that kind of a cruise ship. A lightly at the hands of her own stepbrother Timothy Hudson. His defense lawyers just told a federal judge they can't get ready for trial. That's an interesting one to bring to the judge. What do you mean? You can't get ready for trial. The reason is a string of words buried in the court filing.

3:04Very unfortunate family dynamic. Those are the defense's own words, an emotion filed on August 24th. I want to start here and let you know this is an opinions piece. This is this is this is conjecture, but there are certainly facts baked in and we're going to be talking about all of this. But again, understand what this is as I kind of go off my rage train and explore just how crazy this case is and how the dynamics of it and the lack of accountability to which it appears Timothy Hudson was raised in and around and demonstrated by at least one member of his family in my opinion might have created the little fucking monster that did this.

4:05What they mean about to not getting ready for trial is that the people who raised Timothy Hudson, the people who know his child, his mental health history, his medications, the home he grew up in, won't talk to his lawyers. His lawyers need those people for something called a Miller hearing. They're not saying like, hey, come stand up for him. They just need like by law. You are still technically his parent, Shantel, even though you've decided to completely cut all ties and look, that's your call. If your son does that and you want to do it, I'm not judging and saying that abandoning your insane son is a bad idea. I'm just saying your lack of cooperation here doesn't make a lot of sense unless, unless unless, unless you're fearing that coming to do your part in this, which may, from one I understand at this point, you know, it's some paperwork, unless, in my opinion, are

5:15you fearing that somebody might take a little bit closer look at the household that Anna was in. Are you fearing that some evidence might arise that doesn't look super great on you or your husband or anybody in that house? Something that might, might get you in trouble, might get him in trouble, might get, might make this whole situation look entirely preventable. And you know, not saying it's criminal, but something that when light is shown upon, might not be the legacy you want to leave as a parent. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I'm asking questions because the non-cooperation thing here is kind of weird. A Miller hearing, let's talk about that. It comes from a 2012 Supreme Court ruling. The court said you can't automatically set into juvenile to life in prison without parole

6:17for a homicide. Before that sentence can be imposed, the judge has to consider the defendant as a child, age, maturity, mental health, family environment, child to trauma, whether they can be re-hit, we, we habiltated. Notice some of those things there? Family environment, child to trauma. Things like that, things like that that may require them to look into something or somebody that doesn't want to be looked into. I get people sometimes push these things off because of fear too. Even when there's nothing to hide, just I don't want you to try and find something. Well, okay, but you know, if there's nothing to find, there's nothing to find. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of smoke here and when there's smoke, there's usually fire. And in this case, a possible raging 12 alarm in Furnow. So I, at least that's how it looks on the outside. The defense has to build a complete picture of who this person was before the crime. That means school records, medical records, mental health evaluations, it interviews with

7:19parents, teachers, counselors, anyone who can speak to the defendant's history, Timothy Hudson's defense attorney, Eric Cohen, compared preparing for a Miller hearing to the mitigation phase of a capital case. That's the phase where the defense team brings in everything it has to keep someone off death row. A mitigation specialist can pull records from the school district, but only a parent can tell you what was happening in the house. Cohen wrote that his team does not have the access to certain family members that would allow them to complete the investigation. None of Hudson's three assistant federal public defenders has ever represented a juvenile and federal corporate form. They're building the most consequential part of this case for the first time and that people they need most won't sit down with them. US District Judge Beth Bloom granted the delay prosecutors didn't oppose it. The trial moved from September to a two week window, beginning November 2nd. The plea deadline is October 23rd. Cohen's filing said the defense needs time to advise Hudson about the options available

8:21to him to resolve the pending charges. The language signals a plea could be on the table, but a plea doesn't eliminate the Miller hearing. Whether Hudson goes to trial or takes a deal, the defense can't build the mitigation case without the people who know him. So who are the family members that defense can't reach? Cohen was deliberately vague. He wrote in a footnote and he was being vague due to the intense media scrutiny the case has garnered. The filing doesn't officially name anyone, but we can speculate. I can't say I know for sure, but we can speculate about close family that won't talk. As you've on the record and other filings have said, I can't put my marriage in jeopardy essentially for the sake of my son, which is one of the most crazy fucking statements I've ever heard. But unfortunately, a lot of parents make those moves. Let me prioritize my relationship over here over my actual child's well-being.

9:27Not exactly maternal or parental, but narcissism does run wild. The public record from a separate custody battle between Timothy's biological father tells the story that offenses five careful words. We're trying to keep off the page. Chantel Hudson is Timothy's biological mother, which kind of makes us even more shocking. She married Christopher Campner and his father. That makes her both the mother of the person charged with the killing and the stepmother of the person who was killed. And they're still trying to manage this relationship, apparently. There's hasn't been a divorce filing yet. There's still like, maybe we can make it. Maybe. Three generations boarded the carnival horizon together in November of 25. Christopher Chantel, Anna Timothy, Anna's younger brother, Timothy's younger sister and grandparents. The adults split three cabins amongst the group, Anna Timothy and Anna's younger brother

10:30were placed in a cabin. 83, 43 together. No parent in the room. So, so know that if you're on the carnival horizon anytime soon, 83, 43 had a homicide take place in it. So, you're like falling asleep, listening to the podcast in the room. I think I think something happened here. What is that all about? I can feel the boat moving a little bit. You never hear it fall asleep on a cruise ship and there's a little bit of rocking going on. It's like, you know, it makes a sea sick or you're enjoyed. And you're like, oh, 18, 43 or 83, 43. Oh, shit, that's my room. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I don't know if they're still using the room. But I would say I might be asking for a cabin change if I'm just noticing that right now

11:31and I'm on the boat. Custody testimony, Allegie Chantel took the children on the cruise without Thomas Hudson's knowledge or consent. The cabin arrangement who slept where, who was supervising, who wasn't, was entirely in the hands of the adults on board. And a cabinet was found dead under the bed on November 7. Her cause of death was mechanical exphyxiation. The killing allegedly occurred in international waters, which is why the case landed in federal court. Juveniles are almost never prosecuted federally. Timothy Hudson was initially charged as a juvenile in February 26th, two months later. Federal grand jury indicted him as an adult on first degree murder and a second serious federal charge. He was led not guilty. If convicted, he faces a maximum sentence of life in prison. In the first 48 hours after Anna's body was found, custody filings. Allegie Chantel was functioning as Timothy's mother. According to documents, Timothy's biological father, Thomas Hudson placed into the court, record Chantel texted Thomas that she'd spoken to Timothy at a medical facility.

12:33She told Thomas she'd said to their son, I told him you and I love him within weeks according to the same filings. That changed very, very conditional mother's love. Thomas Hudson's filings claim Chantel told him she couldn't jeopardize her marriage to help their son. Those filings elect the family. When Timothy buried court records from the custody case, she was Chantel and Christopher expelled Timothy from their household. Now look, if you got a killer who did this, I understand the expelling and you want him buried. I just have to say it's interesting language. It's an interesting take. I probably would be feeling a lot of rage too. I don't know. To me, it just feels a little bit, what do you say, protective, not of, not of, I mean, Anna's dad of one zone story.

13:34I guess you could say whatever that story may be, which I do not know. I do not know the answer to, but it does feel rather let's circle the wagons Timothy and Anna. Oh, well, looks like he's out there. I hear the wolves howling their hungry. Well, why don't we throw a little bit of meat out there and invite him on in? Well, our son Timothy's over here locked to the train tracks. Either the train's going to hit him first or the wolves are going to get him. We're going to sit over here and eat our beans. I guess if this were in the wild west, this would be going on. It's a little odd. It's a little odd. Can't say I've been in that situation though. So it's hard for me to judge. I think it's always important. Think about that. I'd love to get your thoughts in the comments. Does this feel odd to you? Does this feel a little bit odd? The, I, we tell him we love him and then we go to, we want him buried and can't jeopardize your marriage to help your son. I mean, I get it.

14:36It's a crazy dynamic. You're married to the father of the victim. Your son is the one accused of doing this and by all, you know, accounts here, it's pretty clear he did it. I don't know. That might just be time to wash your hands of that relationship and be like, you know what? We tried our best. Clearly the universe doesn't want this to work out. Your spawn killed my spawn and now shit's gone awry. I don't know. I don't know how you're like, well, let's try and work this out and and and we'll, we'll be all good. I don't know how you get there. Anyway, according to those records, neither has seen him since. According to those records, Christopher Kaffner and his father, Sean Tells, husband, told reporters he wants Timothy in orange jumpsuit and handcuffs. The family that Timothy lived with for years closed ranks around its grief and locked him out. In the December 25, custody hearing Sean Tell told the court she'd spoken to Timothy

15:39briefly after Anna's death. She said he keeps repeating over and over. He can't remember anything. Whether that's true is a question for the jury. You know, as a parent, if you have a child with a mental health history and by the way, his mental health history, his capacity for rehabilitation, the warning signs you adults around who may have missed, those are questions for the Miller hearing. I might be looking into a little bit deeper. Is there some sort of mental health episode that went on here? I'm not so excused, but to try and understand your own kid. I don't know. Call me crazy, but you know, I'm all for abandoning murderous human beings that do horrible things, even if they're related. So you kind of like that. But when it's your own kid, I don't know. Ask a few questions first. Just a thought. But again, to each their own, the person who gave their testimony under oath nine months ago was now according to the defense, unreachable.

16:44Unreachable, allegedly. Timothy's been in federal custody since mid June and magistrate judge Edwin Torres revoked his free trial release after the case moved to a dull court. Torres wrote that the allegations present a danger that no curfew monitor or custodial placement can be trusted to contain. I'd seen as being held at a juvenile facility in the Miami date area. Court trans comes from a February detention hearing revealed he was Baker acted after the ship docked. Witnesses described him crying uncontrollably. That mental health history is what a Miller hearing exists to examine the detention order guarantees him access to his attorneys into family visitation. His mother has the legal right to walk into that facility and see her son if she wants to. Nobody is stopping her. But according to the documented record, she has not. Timothy Hudson, Timothy's or Thomas Hudson, rather Timothy's biological father appears

17:47to be the one cooperating with the defense. He filed for custody of Timothy's nine year old sister after the killing. He put the text exchange as we shan tell into the court record, but Thomas wasn't the custodial parent. Shantel was. She lived with Timothy, managed his medications, watched him grow up in the same house as Anna, at least for the short period of time that she's been married to the husband. Shantel confirmed under oath at a December 25 custody hearing that Timothy was on medication for ADHD and insomnia. She confirmed he had not taken the insomnia medication for two nights on the cruise, including the night before Anna's body was found. If she cooperates with the defense's Miller investigation, she has to answer questions about what else she knew. FBI agent Andrew Del Vell testified at a pre-trial detention hearing that Anna's ex-boyfriend told investigators Timothy had tried to get into Anna's bed well. She slept months before the cruise. Anna told her ex-boyfriend she was afraid of Timothy and has an interteller father.

18:48Anna's aunt told reporters that Anna didn't want to go on the cruise and wasn't comfortable sharing a room with Timothy. Cooperating with the defense means walking into every one of those questions. What did Shantel know about her son's behavior towards Anna? What a Christopher now. Why did two unrelated teenagers end up in a cabin together without a parent when according to the FBI's agent's testimony, one of them was allegedly afraid of the other. Gotta save a couple bucks. Well she could have stayed with Graham and Grandpa. We gave her that option. Yeah. You know what? You're the fucking parents. You're the ones who can make the decision of, hmm, you know, my daughter has been complaining about this other kid here who happens to live in the house as her stepbrother, making an appropriate advances at her and beyond that allegedly. Maybe the best course of action on the family vacation is not to put the two of them in a single fucking cabin together. I don't know. Call me fucking crazy. Well we gave her the option. You're the parents.

19:49You make the call. How about just don't ever present it as the only option because you know what? A lot of people are afraid. They're anxious. They're scared of what your reaction is going to be if you tell them no, probably because you have a track record of being a dick about it. And they may not necessarily speak up and say no I don't like that. I don't think that's a great idea. They think I'll power through this. I'll make it through it. I've made it through all the other stupid shit my parents have put me through. This is a cruise. What could possibly go wrong? They're not necessarily running through their mind. I might end up dead under the bed covered in life jacket strangled by the stepbrother. But you know what? Knowing the history, knowing the allegations that she's made, knowing what her ex boyfriend has said, knowing what the FBI has said about that relationship dynamic between the sister and stepbrother.

20:50I wouldn't necessarily as a parent be fearing death if they're sharing a room but I'd be fearing something else. Something else pretty frickin horrible. Nobody's going to see death. No, but I would certainly see R as a rather high probability. And it looks like that occurred and then death. Again, you're asking people that don't seem to have a very good track record of decision-making to which some point in their life start making good decisions. It doesn't happen like that even when pressure is applied. Sonja Ziski, Shantel's own stepmother, Timothy's step grandmother. She went on camera and called for criminal charges against Shantel and Christopher for

21:51failing to supervise the children on the ship. She said putting those kids in a cap and together was a recipe for disaster. Those aren't questions about Timothy's childhood for ascetic hearing. Those are questions about what the adults and the family knew when they knew it and what they did about it. Every answer Shantel gives to the defense could become an answer she has to give somewhere else. The defense didn't name her, the filing used five polite words and a footnote about media scrutiny. But the custody record shows who cut Timothy off, who chose a marriage over his son, and who has something to lose by sitting in a room with his lawyers. The plea deadline is October 23rd. The defense is two months. Whether Timothy Hudson takes a plea or goes trial November 2nd, the Miller hearing happens. The judge left to decide whether a 16 year old spends his entire life behind bars. A person's his testimony could shape that decision, could walk into a visitation room at a Miami date facility where the judge's own order guarantees her access.

22:54She's decided that what she'd have to say on the other side of that door isn't worth the price of saying it. Your thoughts in the comment section on substacking you too. I'd love for you to weigh in. You know, like I said in this, I get... If you have someone, you know, even your own kid, that... I mean, the evidence is pretty clear cut what the fuck he did. I do totally understand disowning and walking away from that person. I do, I do get that. What I don't get is the possibility of this being a mental health issue with the medication things that were going on and off. And I guess just the straight up verbiage that's been used here. I can't put that in the way of my marriage. Is that... I mean, is that just the public thing you're saying out loud?

23:57Or is that what you really believe? Because that's a weird thing to say out loud. I don't know. Give me your thoughts in the comment section, substacking YouTube. I feel like there's probably a lot more to come in this case, but again, John tells never been charged with anything. Dad's never been charged with anything. They are victims to a certain extent here. I do agree with that. And being ignorant is not necessarily a crime. There's plenty of horrible ignorant parents and their children luckily survive. But there's plenty of horrible ignorant parents where horrible things happen and they die. Again, not that they can be held responsible, but at least not in a court of law. But in the court of public opinion, which is here, the media scrutiny, basically everybody looking at the facts and going, yeah, bad decision makers. Well, that will live on an infamy.

24:57We'll continue the conversation in the comments, links in the description. If you're not done so, yeah, take the podcast with you, the link to that Apple podcast Spotify right there on the QR code. If you're watching this on YouTube, check it out or just search hidden killers with Tony Bruceki, wherever you get podcasts. Until next time, I'm Tony Bruceki. We'll talk again real soon. Want more on this case and others? Then press subscribe now and don't miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony Bruceki and the Hidden Killers podcast. This is Hidden Killers with Tony Bruceki. The optics around the family of Anna Campner are just utter shit. I don't know any other way to put it. And I don't know if it's because it's indicative of what took place. It's a reflection of the chaos that was going on in this girl's life and around her.

26:01And it just, it all was kind of part of an encompassing whirlwind that ended in tragedy the way it did. Or, you know, if this is just, you know, a microscope, a magnifying glass that is on this family right now because of the tragedy that took place here. So then every single speck of dirt and dust and whatever, I'm just going to use a word there. They're probably, you know, I don't think I'm just not going to use that. The liquid you may need to clean up, or maybe not even look anyway. All of those things that exist when a family is in turmoil and they are. I mean, there's a custody dispute going on between Sean tell the the stepmom and her husband, the mother and the father

27:05here of the alleged killer, the son, with multiple children, those are not always the cleanest thing. They can be down and dirty and people making this accusation and that accusation demanding money. And that's on the outside going, what? But in the context of this, in the context of this, no, no, anyway, you, anyway, you spin it. Any, any lens you'll look through at this. It's a lot of broken people in my opinion, doing very broken things. No matter how broken the snow globe is around them. Timothy Hudson is sitting in a federal detention facility right now. He's charged as an adult with first degree murder and a second serious federal charge in the death of his step-sister

28:08and a campner on a carnival cruise ship. His trial has already been delayed twice. First from June to September, then from September now to November 2nd. After his defense team cited what they called a very unfortunate family situation. His plea deadline is October 23rd. If he doesn't take up plea by then, he goes to trial, facing life. And rightfully so, he killed his step-sister allegedly. I mean, it's pretty freaking obvious. This isn't a case where there's a lot of reasonable doubt or questioning what happened. And that being said, his mother, Shantel Hudson, just filed a petition in court. But it has nothing to do with his defense or the murder trial that's eight weeks away. She filed to fight her ex-husband, Thomas Hudson,

29:09over child support payments. I mean, life goes on outside of the killer's son, you know, but according to a court document, she elects Thomas, didn't pay for several months. And she wants the amounts re-evaluated because she believes he earns significantly more than she does. Her son is staring down a federal murder trial that could put him away for life. In the paper, she chose to push us about dollar, dollar bills per child per month. What is the paper trail from this custody war tell you about the woman who raised him? This is conjecture, this is opinion. She may be a lovely woman and this just may be a very negative light that we're looking at her in and it just doesn't present her how she is. But she keeps popping up, popping up. Like, whack him all.

30:11Like whack him all. It's like, maybe you should just stay down there right now and let this kind of blow over. Maybe we shouldn't be getting national attention over a couple extra hundred bucks or something in a child support payment. Where the first question everyone is going to have is, are you asking him to pay child support for the child that's in federal custody right now too? Is that part of the deal? Are you not getting enough for the kid that you were in charge of who killed the daughter of the guy you just married allegedly? We need some more money for him. Clearly, clearly maybe a little extra would have helped with therapy bills or something. But is this that or is this just like I am completely toned off to everything going around on around me and I just don't really care. So pony up the dollar dollar bills, y'all.

31:15At what point does behavior like this start to explain how a 16 year old ends up where Timothy Hudson is? You know, it's chaotic, it's weird, it's disjointed. It doesn't seem to match the moments of what's going on in this life. Huh. That's the adults in the room acting that way. And her son acted odd, extreme. Didn't match the motion of what's going on in this life and somehow found it appropriate to allegedly essay his step sister and then hide her under a bed on a carnival cruise ship and cover her in life jackets. Also doesn't seem to really flow with what reality is around him at that moment in time for how to act appropriately. I know, there are a bit different in scope, certainly.

32:16But you know, parenting can sometimes be a ripple effect, you know, yeah, drop it in the water, ripples go out and those ripples, those waves bigger as they spread. It makes you wonder if Timothy is kind of one of those waves. The child support order between Shontel and Thomas started at $2,129 a month for three children. When their eldest turned 18 in October of 25, one month before an encounter died on the carnival horizon, the amount dropped to 1,732 for two. It's now down to 1,092 for one child. Shontel's petition alleges Thomas went several months without paying a dime. Thomas never denied her claims and denied her characterization of a strained relationship between him and the children. That's one of the pitches that she gave the judge. Again, this is kind of the conjecture of a custody hearings where people say negative things about the other poor people

33:17to try and sway a judge, thinking that they're, you know, getting one up on the judge, never heard this shit before. Here's where the math gets uncomfortable. Timothy has been in federal custody since June 15th, 26th. A federal magistrate ordered him detained after finding the prosecution's evidence beyond clear and convincing, and citing what he called a level of psychopathy. So far, at least part of the period, Shontel claims Thomas wasn't paying, their son was in a federal cell, not living with either parent. It was in government custody because the judge determined he was too dangerous to be anywhere else. So is that part of the payment? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question, but that's an ask. That's an ask. That's an ask of the other parent in a divorce situation of asking for funding for custody.

34:19I've seen a lot of asks where you're like, I don't know about that one. But this one, again, I don't quite, I know for sure, so I can't say. But if that's in there, this could literally be an ask for money for the time he was in federal custody because he allegedly killed his step sister of which to the time, Shontel was the parent in charge. You want more money for that? Really? Again, it's in the minutiae of the paperwork. I don't know if that's exactly, we don't have that paperwork in front of us so that it is a bit of speculation there. I'm not gonna sugarcoat or hide that, but it's certainly, again, optics. Optics, maybe over a couple hundred bucks right now,

35:25this isn't worth it. Maybe. Timothy hasn't been in Shontel's house since November of 25. He went to a relative's home and then lived with his uncle on GPS monitoring, then entered federal detention. For nearly a year, the child support obligation has covered a child who was an under-roof. And the reason he's in that cell, according to prosecutors, is because he allegedly committed murder while under Shontel supervision. On a cruise that Thomas alleges in custody filing, she took the children on without his consent. Thomas had already filed a contempt motion against Shontel before the family ever left them the cruise, alleging she was withholding the children and refusing to let him exercise his court ordered parenting time. The custody ward didn't start because of Anna's death. It was already burning. Thomas's attorney asked the court for 140 days of makeup time. That's how many custody exchanges Shontel had allegedly blocked.

36:28Because things were just going so good over on their side at their house that he couldn't possibly need to leave for any reason like seeing his father. Could he, Shontel? Needed to stay there because he's such an asset to the newly formed Kempner extended Brady Bunch family that 140 days were worth stealing from his dad allegedly. Again, these are filings that are, these are custody filings. So not proven in court arguments in court. According to Thomas whose filing Shontel took the kids without his permission and put them on the ship where Anna died. She's now in court demanding more money from the father she allegedly wouldn't let see them. The father that if his allegations are true

37:32and he would have not consented to his son going on this cruise would not have ended in him very likely facing the rest of his existence behind bars. And Anna Kempner in a grave. Hmm, I don't know. Seems like maybe dad had a feeling that this wasn't gonna go great. And Shontel just had to make sure that the new family was working wonderful and everything's great and everything's perfect and we don't wanna accept and don't wanna upset Anna's dad. Because we know how he gets allegedly. We've heard the allegations, the chokeholds, the rage, fear the alleged ignoring of his own daughters, concerns might I say please for help

38:34that also would have likely prevented this from ever occurring. Yeah, excuse me, well I pour a little salt in the wound. I don't like doing that. But I'm sorry this family keeps bringing chaos to the table and telling everyone look over there. None of this could have contributed to it. None of this, no, no, no, no. Not saying they murdered their daughter, they didn't. Saying they created an environment where someone with a very broken brain had clear access to murder their daughter and they looked the other way. Nobody wanted this to happen, but there's consequences to your actions and there's consequences to being a shit parent and unfortunately they are finding that out. There's no consequence in terms of you're gonna go to jail for this.

39:35I don't think there's any criminal responsibility on their part. I think there's moral failing, ethical failing, human being failing, fatherly failing, motherly failing, it's just failing. Just a big group of failures really. And they're on a pedestal and I think it's fully okay for society to stand here and start throwing the fucking tomatoes. Because there should be shame in this. There should be shame in this behavior. There should be shame in the behavior leading up to what happened to anti-cum fare. There shouldn't just be straight up victimhood or scurrying responsibility because it makes things look a little icky, makes you look a little irresponsible.

40:36I do not know what happened for sure in that house, neither do you. But everything that is leaking out out here certainly does not look good. According to Thomas whose filing shantel took the kids without his permission and put them on the ship where Anna died. She is now in court demanding more money from the father see allegedly wouldn't let see them. If this were one time lapse in judgment, you could write it off. The last two defiling from November 25th to September 26th say otherwise. And the first 48 hours after Anna's body was found text exchanges entered into the court record show shantel functioning as Timothy's mother. She texted Thomas about speaking to their son at a medical facility. She relayed that he kept repeating he couldn't remember anything and according to the filing she told Thomas, she'd said she loved him. That was the first week. Then love stopped. Approximately 32 hours had passed between the discovery

41:36of Anna's body and shantel's first contact with Thomas. The text that read, I need you to call me ASAP. It's an emergency. The ship had already docked in Miami that morning. Thomas later placed the text message into the court record in which he wrote to shantel. I kept my mouth shut when you told me that you can't jeopardize your marriage for helping your son. That's Thomas's account of what she said. Shantel hasn't publicly confirmed or denied it. But that's in the file. Court filing shows shantel and her husband Christopher Kempner and his father expelled Timothy from their home after the incident. Thomas alleged in filings at Kempner's family the Kempner family social media called for nails in the coffin of Timothy and said both the family on shantel wanted him buried. We're just a few days ago. There were the three amigos. Yeah. Things don't tend to go from three amigos to putting nails in the coffin of your living son.

42:36One of them you had no choice to. That was your daughter because the living son allegedly did, but how did he get here? How did that happen? That's why that's why we're talking about this. Why that's why we're not just going to brush it off and go, ah, some kids, they're just crazy. She of course invoked the fifth amendment in a custody hearing rather than testify. The eldest son Andrew testifying it later hearing that he'd had almost no contact with his mother since 2023. Thomas's attorney argued in court that the family's problems started when Chris Kempner entered the picture. From I love him to bury him, document it in court filings within weeks of each other. She protected the marriage. She cut the sun loose. And now she's coming after the ex husband for the check. I'll go back to where this begins. Thomas allegedly alleged in custody filings at Chantel took the children on a carnival horizon without his consent. His filings alleged she was responsible for their supervision and that the living arrangements were inappropriate.

43:39In a December 25 hearing Chantel testified on her, oh, that the three teenagers chose to share the cabin. She called them like the three amigos and said they were the best of friends. She also testified that Timothy had been dying until she knew she'd ADHD and was taking medication for insomnia. Those are, okay, not abnormal things. These things happen. She confirmed under questioning that he had not taken the insomnia medication for two nights on the cruise, including the night before Anna's body was found. That's her own testimony about her son's medical needs going unmet on a trip cheap put together. Anna's boyfriend stated publicly that the step brother had climbed on top of Anna during a FaceTime call while she was lying down. This is back at home, long time before the cruise. She said Anna told him she was uncomfortable and hesitant to tell her father because she had suspected that he had knives.

44:41Didn't want to talk about it much because the step brother has knives. Those warnings were there before the family they ever got on the ship. And allegedly the adults responsible didn't do anything. That seems like a great place to park the kids. They say it's okay. Sometimes you get groups of kids that are so responsible. They counteract and they correct the misgivings and the poor parenting of the adult because they're like, well, somebody's got to be the adult here and they make better choices. And sometimes the poor parenting of the adults is just so poor the kids never had a chance because they never knew anything better. They don't know what responsible parenting is and what responsibility is because they've never had it demonstrated for them. The people they have in front of them that are supposed to love, trust and take care of them.

45:45Timothy's own step grandmother, Sonia Ziske, went on camera and called the arrangement on the ship a recipe for disaster. She asked why the teenagers were in a room together and pointed out they weren't raised as siblings. Ziske is pointing at Chantel and Christopher. If those accounts are accurate, the person now demanding more child support from Thomas is the same person whose decisions put those kids in that cabin allegedly. The filing doesn't exist in a vacuum. It sits at the end of a paper trail that stretches back to the carnival horizon. Chantel's petition asks for money per child. One of those children is in a federal cell. The other is a nine year old girl living in a home with her stepfather whose biological daughter was allegedly killed by her biological brother. Seems like a lovely environment. Chantel testified in an earlier hearing that all the children in her home had been unenrolled from school because of the media attention. Thomas has been fighting for custody of that girl since the beginning.

46:46Really? I'm telling you what? I enrolled from school because of the media attention. Yeah, I'm sure all those kids at school are just going nuts with the media. Or riddle me this. Might they have been unenrolled from school because they might start talking about the actual environment in that home and then those other children that they spread that message to, it will spider out. And then those parents will hear about it and they'll call child protective services on the Kempner household. And then shit will get real really fast because all of the stories will be out there in the ether for everyone to consume. And the darkness will finally see the light of day. Might that be the reason they're not in school? Or is it the media attention? Call me crazy. Call me crazy.

47:47Call me crazy. Some people are easy to fucking read. I don't know for sure. That's my conjecture. His February 2016 emergency petition said it plainly. It is not in the best interest of petitioner, father's nine year old minor child to be living with her son. To be living with her stepfather where her brother has been accused of murdering the daughter of her stepfather. It's almost that's almost like you remember like Mori or Springer. It's like that was like the little headlight on the bottom of the screen. You're flipping through channels back like what's on Springer today? What is this here? That's a really tiny, tiny print in the corner of the screen. Father's nine year old minor child living with stepfather where her brother has been accused of murdering the daughter of her stepfather. And you pause for a second going,

48:48that's a lot to entangle in my mind. Let's just watch. Then inevitably people start fighting on stage and shares are thrown. Weird shit happens and into Springer episode. But in 2026, it's the Anna Kempner case. Would have made a great Springer episode, wouldn't it? He called it an extremely complicated situation for any adult let alone a nine year old minor child to be in the center of, I feel horrible for that poor child. His filing also noted that he's supporting his son's criminal defense, shouldering the cost of a federal murder case. And Sean Tal is telling a judge, he owes her money. By the way, you're short a couple extra hundred bucks. I know I didn't let you see him and I took him on a cruise that was not approved and he killed somebody, literally.

49:50In so many things, it's like, it's not like he killed anybody. Oh wait. What are you so upset about? It's not like he killed anybody. Oh shit. Oh, he did? Oh. That nine year old girl is living in a home where her stepfather's daughter is dead allegedly at the hands of her brother. That girl's step sister died. Her brother went to federal detention. She had to leave her school. Her mother is filing for child support. Her father is filing for custody. She's nine. And every adult around her is in a courtroom fighting over something that isn't her. Every filing, every tax exchange and evidence, every piece of sworn testimony from the custody war adds up to the same thing. A mother who consistently picked money, her marriage and her own skin over her kids, in my opinion. That doesn't excuse what Timothy Hudson has accused of doing to Anna Kempter. Nothing does, but when you look at the document at record and ask how a 16 year old ends up in a federal cell,

50:51charged with these crimes, the custody file might be more revealing than the criminal one. Her son is facing life in a federal prison. She filed about dollars per child per month. Your thoughts in the comments section on substacking YouTube. Maybe you, Shontel, would like to fill us in and let us know what we got wrong. Again, a lot of conjecture there. A lot of trying to read the tea leaves and understand what's happening based on the filings. There's something else at play here. We're just looking at this really through the wrong Christmas. It all looks really shitty. I guess at the beginning, I get it. There's a microscope on this and everything can be blown up out of proportion. But again, at the end of the day, patterns of behavior mean something. In your pattern, I'm sorry, it's shit. Your thoughts in the comments section on substacking YouTube. Love for you to weigh in. We'll continue right there, right there, in the YouTube QR code, Scan it. Take the podcast with you.

51:52Apple podcast, Spotify wherever you get podcast, Scan it right there. Press subscribe. We greatly appreciate that. You can listen to us at the gym and the car wherever. Until next time, I am Tony Brusky. We will talk again real soon. Want more on this case and others? Then press subscribe now and don't miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony Brusky and the Hidden Killers podcast. Imagine your friend tells you she's taking an innocent family trip to Greenville, South Carolina. We'll call her Emma. The trip sounds great to you. Hiking at John's Gap, dinner at Topsoil, a room at the best hotel in town. Harmless, right? Here's the thing. Emma and her family never returned from Greenville. They disappear. You search for answers, but nothing adds up. Emma had a great life back home. You guys were best friends. What happened? Well, the truth is, once Emma realized she could have access to Michelin recognized restaurants, nature, local shops, and performing arts,

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53:55Emma had a great life back home. You guys were best friends. What happened? Well, the truth is, once Emma realized she could have access to Michelin recognized restaurants, nature, local shops, and performing arts, all in one place, everywhere else started to seem a little. Meh. Emma's vacation is a cautionary tale. If you're coming this way, don't forget to tell your friends and neighbors goodbye. Visit Greenville, South Carolina, but you may never want to leave. Learn more at visitgreenvillesc.com. Earn your Farm D in as little as 33 months with West Coast University's hybrid program no bachelor's degree required. Eligible transfer credits may be accepted. West Coast University, as real as it gets, visit westcoastuniversity.edu. WCU cannot guarantee employment. Imagine your friend tells you she's taking an innocent family trip to Greenville, South Carolina. We'll call her Emma.

54:55The trip sounds great to you. Hiking at John's Gap, dinner at Topsoil, a room at the best hotel in town. Harmless, right? Here's the thing. Emma and her family never returned from Greenville. They disappear. You search for answers, but nothing adds up. Emma had a great life back home. You guys were best friends. What happened? Well, the truth is, once Emma realized she could have access to Michelin recognized restaurants, nature, local shops, and performing arts, all in one place, everywhere else started to seem a little. Meh. Emma's vacation is a cautionary tale. If you're coming this way, don't forget to tell your friends and neighbors goodbye. Visit Greenville, South Carolina, but you may never want to leave. Learn more at visitgreenvillesc.com. Earn your Farm D in as little as 33 months with West Coast University's hybrid program, no bachelor's degree required. Eligible transfer credits may be accepted.

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