An Independent Miracle in Montana?

0:00I'm Charlie Sykes and this is the to the contrary podcast Donald Trump is cutting down willow trees and tearing down statutes at the Kennedy Center just just a few days after his legal minions threatened to tear the whole thing down if the petal in president doesn't get his way. The pettiness is of course the point at the same time Trump is getting his way in some places. Apple has now joined Google in the Craven Olympics by changing the name Lake Ontario to Lake America on its maps and the US mint in case you haven't heard this is now selling one dollar Trump coin you can actually own this coin which you can get at a 54% markup because Trump Flation or something. Yeah, this is not a parody that's a real coin back in the real world. Meanwhile Vladimir Putin is pledging his support for Iran and the financial times is reporting that Russia may supply the mullahs with super sonic cruise missiles that could target US aircraft carriers and other US facilities and troops and of course Donald Trump's reaction is well more appeasement inviting him inviting Russia back to the G 20 summit.

1:12And this all comes at a time when Trump and Pete Hegseth are escalating the war on the American military where the purges of top generals have left the army virtually rudderless or spreading chaos throughout the ranks. I mean here's just a little bit of a snapshot of some of the generals that they purged so far and this week the secretary of the Navy the top civilian in the army resigned after months of tension with Peter Hegseth. And so just a just bring up to date on this Hegseth has fired or forced out senior officers across nearly every single service including the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Navy's top general and the Army Chiefs Chief of Staff. The Washington Post counts more than two dozen top officers dismissed under Hegseth. The New York Times reports that Hegseth has also this very very unusual personally in intervene and removed at least 45 officers from promotion list. This year an NBC News is reporting that just this week he is blocking more promotions including whether it doesn't black Hispanic or female officers across the services.

2:21Meanwhile, as you know the midterm elections are just two months away and the fight for the Senate the US Senate is heating up. It's been a really crazy year. But as I've written before I think one of the most undercover stories of the years the surge of independent candidates were challenging Republicans in states like Idaho, Nebraska, South Dakota and Montana. And I think it's time to dive into that. So joining on today's podcast is Seth Baudner who is doing something extraordinarily interesting. Seth is a veteran, a businessman and educator running for the US Senate in Montana as an independent. He attended West Point and served as an infantry officer in Iraq and as a green beret. He studied in Oxford as a Rhodes scholar worked in the private sector at General Electric and served eight years as president of the University of Montana and recent polls showed him running in second place behind the Republican candidate.

3:26So welcome to the podcast Seth. I appreciate you taking the time to do this. Well, thanks Charlie. It's great to be here. I appreciate you covering this important not just campaign but movement. Okay, so we'll get to the politics of what it's like running as an independent in a deep red state that used to actually once upon a time I'm old enough to remember used to elect Democrat. We'll talk about that, but I wanted to get your reaction as a graduate as a graduate of West Point as a former green beret as well. Maybe you're always a green beret. To what's happening with the Pentagon because the split screen of the war in Iran, the war in Ukraine, the you know, increasingly fraught world global stage at the very time when Pete Higgs, it seems to be spreading chaos throughout the Pentagon. Just your reaction to what's going on with the US military. Throughout the world. We learn on the very beginning of your time as a military officer that the military is supposed to be a political, you know, promotions are supposed to be based on merit.

4:32You know, your duty is not to the president. It's to the Constitution of the United States. And you learn that and you have that drilled into your head. You know, I've swore to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. And unfortunately, what we're seeing here in the Pentagon is anyone who doesn't swear an oath of loyalty to an administration or an ideology being pushed out. And it is deeply, deeply troubling. And I'm concerned as every veteran is and frankly as every American should be. So there's several issues here. I mean, number one is the, you know, politicization of the military and clearly, you know, purging from, you know, purging non-loyalist or demanding absolute loyalty to the Trump administration. That's one. But also, what does it do for readiness? What does it do for the ability of the military to keep up? And this apparently was one of the points that the outgoing secretary of the army, a Dan Driscoe made in a one-on-one meeting with Donald Trump. Basically saying, you know, we're not going to be able to adapt to these changes if we're losing generations of talent like this.

5:37So what does it do for our ability to, you know, have the military that we're going to need in the 21st century and changing circumstances? Yeah, I mean, it's catastrophic. And it's going to take, you know, potentially a generation to rebuild, to rebuild that profession. That sense that belief on the part of military officers that your progression through the ranks is based on your performance, your duty to the constitution. And we're seeing when you're purging, when the secretary of defense is going line by line and deciding who gets promoted to the rank of one star. It's not what the secretary of defense is supposed to do. The military is supposed to promote and to see these line by line edits of promotion lists, it's hurting our readiness. It's making us less prepared. And frankly, it's eroding the quality of a generation of military officers. So we're talking about the, at the very top of the military, but let's, let's shift now to what the enlisted men and women are experiencing as well.

6:39Because of course we've had these stories about what was going on in the USS Lincoln. You know, up until now, Trump has had strong support or allegedly strong support among the military. The polls would suggest that he, you know, casts himself as an advocate of the military advocate of veterans. What is happening now to morale of the troops who are now caught in this sort of endless wagmire in the Middle East? Yeah, you know, look, I took command of my first infantry platoon in Molesula Rock in 2003. And when you're stacked outside of the door of a suspected terrorist safe house, ready to blow the door in and go inside, you know what question never comes up? What party are you a part of? And unfortunately, we see that being injected into the day-to-day lives of our military members. And they may see it through the politicization, but, but you mentioned the USS Abraham Lincoln.

7:40What they're seeing it is through reduced rations. They're seeing it through the failures to think about the logistics of a war in Iran for which the commander in chief and the secretary of defense had no plan, have no strategy. And for the US Senate has, has advocated its responsibility and making sure that the president has a plan. So our troops are feeling it not just through the ideological reason, you know, the impacts, but they're feeling it in the day-to-day experiences. They're seeing overseas when again, you have a war without a plan without a strategy without the forward thought about the logistics necessary and inherent in this. And a Senate that failed to hold the commander in chief accountable to deliver that plan before going to war, the the soldier sailors, airmen in a Marine and our US military paying the price for that in a very, very catastrophic fashion. Okay, let's, let's shift to the politics because I think we need to bring people up to speed on all of this. You are running as an independent. Why, let's talk about that first.

8:41You know, obviously Montana has elected Democrats in the past. It has been, you know, increasingly a red, you know, an increasingly red state. Why are you running as an independent this year, as opposed to a Democrat, for example? Well, first off, it's authentic to who I am. You know, I mentioned that the age of 18, I sworn oath to the constitution of the United States, and I joined the US military, not to a party. You know, I led the university of Montana for eight years. I worked closely with a Democratic governor, Democratic legislators. I worked very closely with a Republican governor, Republican legislators, and we focused on the mission. We focused on what was good for Montana, what was good for our kids, what was good for our economy. We got stuff done. The problem right now in DC, with all the challenges we have, from skyrocketing costs, to rampant corruption, to a war without, without any strategy, the constant question you always hear is, is this good for the Republicans? Is this good for the Democrats? And you have a two party system, where our leaders are more focused on working to divide us and distract us to win an election.

9:46Then they are on bringing us together to solve the very real challenges we face as a country. And I believe we need a new approach and approach that brings Montana together that brings Americans get together to actually start solving problems. Well, this is what you are. We need a new coalition of Republicans, Independents, and Democrats that puts the country over party built on common sense, patriotism, and civility. Is there room in our dual system for the independent voice? I mean, this is a question that we've been asking for the last 10 years. You know, is there actually room for somebody outside the two major political parties? I mean, aren't you taking fire now from both ends? Oh, yeah. You know, but look, I heard an old pilot from Vietnam Air and Air Force pilot in Vietnam said, you know, when you start taking heavy flack, that's how you know you're over the target. And when both sides are hitting you know, you're onto something. And frankly, the irony of this race is you've got Republican dark money groups that are attacking me that are supporting the Republican. Also, the primary source of funding for the Democrat in this race.

10:52Republican dark money groups, they are going to do everything they can to protect the arrangement that comfortable arrangement. My question is, you know, I'm a capitalist. I believe strongly in capitalism. If we saw a market, any market that had two firms that controlled 100% of the share, you'd say, wait a minute. That's not competition. We need come when you have a lack of competition, what you end up with is inferior products. Right. We're seeing governance that's a mess. You end up with corruption. Man, we're seeing corruption run and rampant. So yes, Montana's and I believe Americans, I mean, 47% of Americans are independent. Right. Yet we don't have a single independent senator in the United States Senate that doesn't caucus with either of the parties. People are hungry for it. We're seeing it. We're feeling it every day. Just last night, two nights ago, I had an event in Helena, Montana, where we had at that event, introduced me the former Republican governor of Montana, who led the our Republican National Committee, Chair George W. Governor Mark Roscoe, we had a Republican state senator who was the Republican Budget Director for the state.

11:56We had the former Democratic Speaker of the House here in Montana. We had the former head of the Democratic Party. We had this bipartisan group that came together and said, you know what? We're tired of a politics of resentment, of division, of fighting. We want to move forward. So I think there's a hunger for it. There's an appetite for it. Well, I'm going to get to the issues in just a moment. I want to just remind people really what the the state of play has been in other states. So for example, in Idaho, South Dakota, and in Nebraska, the Democratic candidates have actually withdrawn from the race in order to clear the path for the independence in Nebraska. Dan Osborne actually came within shooting distance of winning that Senate seat and is considered to be quite competitive. And so national Democrats have really gotten behind this independent strategy. So in Idaho, South Dakota, and Nebraska, there is basically it is Republican versus an independent in Montana. This was the exception because your Democratic opponent who is now pulling in distant third place chose not to not to drop out of the race. So you actually do still have a Democrat on the ballot. Although you are pulling way, way, way ahead.

13:11So just can you talk to me about that because I again, I believe her argument was look if we're going to fix the brand of the Democrats. We can't just drop out of the races. We have to still run. But so your your thoughts on on that unusual that unusual playing field now that you have in Montana, as opposed to say Nebraska and these other states. Right. I mean, look, would the race be easier if my Democratic opponent dropped out, of course, be easier for my Republican opponent dropped out. That misses the point. You know, voter is voters, is there choices. Neither party owns Montana's votes. I mean, the largest voting block in Montana right now is independent. And I tell you Montana is compelling. Our race is compelling, not despite being a three way race. It's actually a four way race because there's a libertarian in there. I think it's compelling because it is a four way race because if an independent can only win when one of the two party steps aside, you know, we've not created a new model. We've just created an accommodation within the old one. And I think we can show here in Montana this year that an independent candidate compete can compete against both parties and can win.

14:20And I think Montana is a hungry for it. I think Americans are hungry for it. And and we're really excited on our momentum's growing. So we see a real clear path to win this thing on November 3rd. Well, let's talk about the Democratic branding because this is this has become the issue in a lot of these these states that that at one time used to elect Democrats. I mean, again, you know, I Idaho Nebraska Montana. And South Dakota at one time had very, very prominent Democratic senators. And yet the conventional wisdom is that a Democrat cannot win any of those states. So in Montana, and you and I talked briefly, my mother grew up in Montana. So I've been following. You know, you've had, you know, you know, you know, very, very prominent Democratic senators Mike Mansfield Max Boccas, John Tester, just recently. So what has happened to the Democratic brand? And how do and maybe that's not your your particular issue. But why is it so difficult now for people running under the Democratic label to be elected in these in these states, you know, that used to elect Democrats on a routine basis. So just give me your thoughts on on that.

15:27Yeah, I mean, I think it's two things. One is it's a lack of focus. I mean, you just look at the words that the Democratic leaders have said, you know, Chuck Schumer 10 years ago. He said, you know, for every blue collar voter that we lose in rural areas, well, we'll just came back to in the cities and suburbs. He said that about. Yeah, but he said that applies to Michigan. It applies to Wisconsin. And if that's your strategy, that's not a strategy for winning Montana. That's a strategy for for for seeding Montana. And you look at the leadership of the Democratic party in the House and in the Senate for the past decade, the leaders of those two bodies have come from exactly two states New York and California. You know, we don't see leadership west of the Mississippi heck for the Democratic party right now. You don't see leadership west of the Hudson River. You see the leaders of the House and the Senate not only from the same state, but from the same city. They live in the same burrow. They both live in Brooklyn. That's not a party that's talking about issues that are focused on rural America. So. And then the second thing is you see allow the loudest voices coming from the extreme end of the party.

16:32Saying things like defund the police and open borders and that's just nonsense. And Montana and see that. And now that's not what all Democrats believe I want to be very clear that is not what all Democrats believe, but those are the loudest voices that folks here. Now want to be really clear though the Republican party. The National Republican party's taken Montana for granted. You know, they're treating elections here like their corporate succession plans and frankly corrupt ones at that. The incumbent senator that I jumped into the race to challenge Steve Daines. He he told every Montana and I'm running I'm running I'm running in just a few minutes before the filing deadline. When he withdraws from the race and inserts his buddy at Trump appointed US attorney who's never run for office. Basically as the de facto Republican nominee disenfranchising every Republican voter in this state and thinks that hey, just because he has an R by his name, you know, he'll get to he'll get to be the US the next US senator from Montana. That's corruption. That's dishonest and that's taken Montana voters for granted. So I think both of the national parties are failing Montana. And that's why we need new leadership.

17:37Okay, so I'm sure you've been asked this question many times. You know, it's very possible that the Senate could be 50 50, 51 49. Every senator gets a vote. You know, and you have to make a decision. Do you caucus with the Democrats or do you caucus with the Republicans? There are a number of people who actually are independence. You know, technically independence in the Senate, whether it's Bernie Sanders or it's Angus King or whether it's Lisa Murkowski who who you know, again, the first two caucus with Democrats Lisa Murkowski for the moment. You know caucus with Republicans who would send her Seth Bodner caucus with. Well, I've said I don't intend to caucus with either party. I don't need to go to lunch with either the two parties to have an impact. You every senator still gets a vote. And I believe you can get committee assignments by negotiating same way others can. And more broadly, my intention, if I have the honor serving the people of this great state and US Senate is to work with other independent minded senators, Republicans, Democrats, if some of the other independence that you mentioned, hopefully we can get them over the line. Yeah.

18:40And you form a block of four, five, six US senators. That's a very influential block that can that can move things forward for this country to get us toward common sense solution that the majority of Americans agree upon. Okay, so let's talk about some of the issues. You know, what are you hearing, you know, from from Montana's. I mean, Donald Trump has decided that he wants to make this race all about himself. They're having a midterm convention next week, which is going to be basically a Trump Paloza. He's going to spend most of his money on Trump. So this is a state that Donald Trump has won three consecutive times. So what are you hearing from the voters? Do they think that this election is a referendum on Donald Trump or is it about something else? You know what I'm hearing from voters. I had a woman in hell and I'm on Tana recently come up to me and she said, you know what, I don't care what part of your part of. I'm spending two thirds of my social security check, which my only former income. I'm spending it on housing right now. It's going to be 75% in two years. I'm not going to be without a house with I'm going to be without a home.

19:42Young couple, two school teachers in Gardner, Montana, who said, you know what, we're lucky because we have a nonprofit that subsidizes our housing. If that nonprofit ever went away, we'd be out in the cold and we have no hope. I've ever owning a home. A woman the other day I said my premium health care premiums increased by 45%. I can't afford health care. I have to go without it. You know farmers that are just getting crushed by nonsensical tariffs, input input costs soaring diesel at $5 a gallon. One woman harvesting in Conrad, Montana, burn in 300 gallons of diesel a day. So you do that math $3 versus $5 for for a gallon of diesel 600 bucks out of her pocket every single day during harvest. And so they just want somebody who's actually going to come in here and tackle the problem of soaring costs and the issue of corruption. And those two aren't unrelated. You know, the soaring costs and the rampant corruption that we see are a result of our broken political system where the wrong people have the power. It's not the voter. So so they're, you know, they're less interested in talking so much about Donald Trump.

20:47As they are in and talking about real solutions to the challenges that they face. Well, let's also talk about public lands and rural communities. I mean, this is obviously a huge issue. And you've written, you know, our public lands are common ground where every Montana can hunt fish and, you know, recreate regardless of wealth or status. So the Trump administration has been really very aggressive in talking about selling transferring public land using it as a bargaining chip. So give me your sense of, I mean, how this issue is playing in Montana. You said you're going to defend. Montana's constitutional right to a clean and helpful environment. Is that a huge issue in Montana? Is that one that publicans are on the defensive? Oh, absolutely. You know, we have almost the third of our land that's public land. And that's our common ground again. I say it's where everybody can hunt fish and recreate. I'll tell you, this is not just about going on hikes or or or mountain biking or hunting for trophies. I'll tell you the custodial staff of the University of Montana every October or November.

21:49You know, knock on my door and say, hey, Seth, check this out. Show me a picture of the outpages harvest that I'm public land. Yeah, they're proud of it. Maybe they occasionally get European mountains for those for those handlers. That's how they feel their fridge. We're for Montana's our public lands are our grocery stores too. And so this is and to see the federal government. I mean, Trump administration. I just last week saw here. They're potentially going to sell part of your Semini National Park to a developer. I mean, come on. That's a no. We got to defend our people. Those are those would be fighting words. I would think in many Western states. Absolutely. It's it's a hell no for Montana. This is sacred for us out here. Okay. So let's talk about the trade wars. How that is playing in Montana. Your thoughts about the fact that we are in an all out trade war with of all people. Canada. Yeah. What do people what do people make of I'm guessing that people in Montana did not have that on their bingo card that are one of our most vicious trade wars would be against our friends to the north.

22:57Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's as shocking as it is strategically stupid. I mean, for Montana, we share the largest and longest border of any state with Canada. And that's important for for many reasons. Obviously for tourism. I was in Calis Bell, Montana. Not too long ago. And the Chamber of Commerce there told me that last year, not even counting this year. Last year, tourism receipts from Canada down about 40%. Small businesses depend on Canadian tourism. About 20% of our beef actually goes to Canada, maybe to be fed and come back. But huge trade relations with Canada. Replacement parts for farmers fertilizer for farmers. This is driving up input costs for farmers for ranchers for small businesses. It's crushing tourism here. It's nonsensical. Canada is a very important ally. And I'll tell you beyond just the economics of it, you know, after 9-11, our Canadian allies stood beside us.

23:57They stood shoulder to shoulder with us in Afghanistan. They stood shoulder to shoulder with us in Iraq. They stood beside us. They bled beside us. They died beside us. So not only is it strategically stupid to do what we're doing with Canada right now, but but it's a graceful to treat a very important ally. This way after the way they've stood beside us. Well, I'm just worth remembering that as you point out, Montana is a is a is a border state. So let's talk about veterans a little bit. We were talking about the the active duty. My understanding is the the staffing cuts have taken nearly 9% of the VA's Montana workforce. I mean, so you guys have been hit. This would seem to be an issue that and again, this used to be one of Donald Trump's strengths, right? He claimed that he was the big advocate for the veterans. So how are veterans reacting to the cuts in the VA? And what can you do about it? Oh, it's it's it's a big issue here. Montana, I think it's a second only. We're always writing on the on the board. We're always I think second to Alaska in terms of the proportion of our population, their veterans.

25:06It was a big priority for me at the university of Montana during my tenure there. We were named the number one military friendly university in the country because we recognize that we as a country, having more obligation to those who've served us in uniform. And to see politicians who drape themselves in the American flag, well, taking a chain saw to the VA and calling those who serve suckers is is offensive. And I'll tell you there was a Vietnam veteran I was talking to recently here in Montana and he said to me, and this was up around the Calisbell area. He said, you know, I do a lot of mentoring of young veterans. And a young Iraq veteran was really struggling really having some some mental health issues. And he said, I finally, after a long time, I got him to go ask for help. He said that young man, it took him a lifetime's worth of courage to go ask for help. But due to the staffing cuts, when he went and finally got that courage to ask for help, it was a six week wait to see somebody.

26:08Let's talk about. Yeah, let's talk about the restraint accountability and corruption in Washington, because this is this is a big issue. So, um, you know, as you point out, you know, people in Montana and then the West are losing their hospitals, well, members of Congress trade stocks get richer than any point richer than any point in history. So again, what would you support? What kind of legislation? How far would you go in, you know, raining in this extraordinary moment? And I think what was it? The Gallup poll shows that 89% of Americans are are now concerned about about corruption in government. And this does feel like it's a corruption stupid election. So what kind of legislation would you support? Well, we released a whole reform agenda. You can find it on our website, Seth for Montana.com and a few months ago, it's first and foremost, eliminating the numerous ways in which are elected officials government officials officials are using their positions to enrich themselves. Washington DC should be a place where you go to serve not to get rich.

27:10The fact that we don't have a ban right now with teeth on insider trading by members of Congress is shameful. You know, I want to I'm calling for a lifetime ban on former members of Congress. For lobbying for for for the comfort for for nations calling for basic code of ethics for our Supreme Court. I'm calling for turn limits for the Supreme Court and for Congress. I'm advocating for an overturning of citizens united and an end to partisan gerrymandering. You know, the approval rate of Congress right now, you know, depending on the survey, you look at one I looked at this morning said 12% Yeah, I'm surprised it's that high. I think who's in that 12% but when you look at the reelection rate of incumbents in Congress consistently over 90%. So how is it that nearly 90% of Americans could say they're you know, they don't approve of what's going on yet 90% of Congress keeps their job. The system's broken. We don't have the accountability and when you don't have accountability, you have rampant corruption and that rampant corruption is is costing every day.

28:16Montana's at the gas pump and housing and health care all across the board. So yes, there people are understandably upset as am I that you see a elected leaders who are who are working to get themselves rich. Well, while we all suffer. So let's talk about the Supreme Court for a moment because I think I mean there's there's a lot of talk about, you know, in large in the court or packing the court. I think that's probably going to be politically a bridge too far. But I would think that there would be bipartisan majorities for the idea of extending having an ethics code for the Supreme Court. I continue to find it kind of just mind blowing that we do not have a binding ethics code for the Supreme Court or term limits for the Supreme Court. So just talk to me about how doable that is because I would think that even with the filibuster intact that that might be within reach. But maybe I think I think it absolutely can be and I think it absolutely should be. And we need strong voices in the Senate calling for that because that's my question. How do you vote against that?

29:21How can you justify a no vote that's calling for a basic code of ethics for the Supreme Court? How can we sit here and recognize that you know what? A Supreme Court justice if they wanted to could do things for which a federal district judge would go to jail. Supreme Court just that could do it with impunity. That's just common sense. And so I think we need to advocate for those things and and I would I would like to call that call that point to question and make somebody vote no against that bill. So I'm just I'm just looking at the kind of the coalition that you've put together here which is rather extraordinary. I mean we're talking about you know former Democratic US senators John Tester and Max Bocca supporting you. Yeah, I'm coming from the Republican supporting you. Former Montana Republican Party chairman more than 22 current Democratic members of the Montana legislature. Legislature's people who know that this is this is actually kind of is a real thing. You know other groups of Montana conservation voters, League of Conservation voters. So as end citizens united.

30:28But let's talk about the politics here. So the recent polling would suggest that the Republican is still the front runner in this race. I was a recent polling. His name is Kurt Almey. Is that a concept? Yep. All right. All right. At 44% you are at 30%. The Democrat Alani is at the correct me if I'm wrong. And Alani bankhead is at 15%. But the interesting thing about this race is that with and then there's a libertarian. You don't need 50% to win this election. Right. I mean this is actually a sentencing that could be one with 40%. So how do you close that gap? Which is which is do what let's let's face it. I mean this is a double digit gap. Republicans have been doing well in Montana. So how does how Seth do you do you pick up those 14 points? Yeah. Well, here's what you do. You take five from the Republican. Take five from the Democrat and we're up by one. And that's not that big of a that's not that big of a leap. And our poll numbers, our event sizes have been growing.

31:31And you're right. We can win this race with a plurality. We can win this race with 40% of the vote. That's only about 225, 230,000 votes. And so our motto here, our Monterey has been just show up. We've been going all around the state. Our event sizes are growing. We're getting more and more people. And we're going to continue pushing that message. People are hungry for leadership that represents them. Not represents. I've said again and again, I think Montana deserves a US Senator who's who's not afraid of Donald Trump. And I think Montana deserves a US Senator who doesn't answer to Chuck Schumer. Yeah, I think it's important to point out that the scale in Montana is difference in the scale in say New York and in in California. I'm just reading from a memo from your campaign, basically saying, okay, there's about 581,000 Montanans who are expected to vote. So one percentage point is about 5,800 votes. 5,800 votes. So 10 points is 58,000 votes, which is, you know, I mean, that's the scale of the challenge, which

32:33seems less daunting when you put it in those particular terms, right? That you're doing that. And I do think that a lot of Democrats at some point are going to say, okay, if in fact Donald Trump and the Republicans do represent an existential challenge, what are we willing to do in order to defeat a Republican? I mean, this would be a massive upside. There's no question about this would be a massive upset. But you you actually have had some success in raising funds. You've raised about four million dollars. And so again, four million dollars in a state like Montana goes a long way, right? I mean, four million dollars, you know, you know, in Wisconsin or Michigan might not go that way. So where are we at in the campaign? My understanding is the Republicans have been hammering you, right? Yep. Are you up on the air hammering them yet? I mean, has this really become, I guess, has the fight actually been joined yet? Yeah, I mean, we're out there. The Republicans are doing

33:36two things. They're hammering me. They are the only base of support for the Democrat. And they are they're trying to boost trying to boost their guy. Now the good news is this. We're out there, we're spreading our message. We're up on media. But but we're also building a movement. You know, we are we are building teams of volunteers. We have almost 2000 volunteers across the state. We have in terms of individual donors who contributed, I think over 4,000 last report, they're Republican only had 900. The Democrat had had one tiny fraction of that. So, so, you know, it's not just up being up on the air. That's important. We're going to, but we're building a movement here. And and we're getting out across communities and and I'll be out around I was out in the state every single day out there talking with people. And and that's where we're going to win this thing, neighbor to neighbor person to person. And we see that momentum building every single day. So yes, we're we're we're ready to pull off what would be a very big upset. We feel

34:40very good about where we are and how our momentum is going. So what what are they, what are the Republican attack ads aiming at? Because as an independent, they can't basically say, you're one of these radical Democrats. You are tied with these people. They can't show a picture of Chuck Schumer and you what can they or I mean, what what is the deal? I would think that being an independent kind of it immunizes yourself. Yeah, it's very interesting. And they've they've they've they've said I'm I'm woke. Anti-American, even though that when I was at the university, we were in a military friendly university, not to mention that was a green bra and serve this country uniform. They're saying I'm not only woke. I'm also sexist, even though the majority of my leadership team at the university of Montana was women, they're saying I'm a terrorist because somehow have ties to the Chinese Communist Party and that I'm responsible for illegal immigration at the border. You know, it's really really interesting, but this is ugly. And I tell you, you know, we we're seeing here in Montana, even within the Republican Party, a civil war at

35:41state level races. I mean, I was talking to, you know, I've seen legislators that are Republicans because they they deemed they dared to work with moderate Democrats have been primaried by their parties this past year. Many of them survived. Many of them didn't, but millions of dollars dumped into legislative races with only five thousand voters. Crazy stuff. And and and the the political climate in this country, the toxic sludge that just flows into our elections, you know, it as a result of dark money is is a mess. But I tell you, Montana's are sick of that. And they're they're hungry for leadership that moves us forward. And we're feeling that hunger and we're feeling that fueling our momentum. Okay. So toxic sludge and ugliness. So looking at your resume, which is a pretty impressive resume, you could be pretty much doing anything with your life right now. I'm not I'm not just trying to give it the soft soap here. Why would you subject yourself to this? Why do you want to do this? Why do you want to jump into this this political toxic sludge?

36:43And you're going to spend the next two months being hammered by Maga ad. So just give me some sense because I always wonder why do people choose to get into politics at this particular moment? Because one of my concerns is that normies are going to look at politics and go, that's the last thing I want to do with my life. I can live a happy successful life. Why would I want to do that? So why do you want to do this? Well, it's a valid question. And and my wife and I made this decision. And it is a absolute team effort. My wife and I are in this together because she's married to an unemployed guy right now. And she's basically having to be a single mom of three kids. But we made this decision for three reasons. Two of them just turned 16. One of them's 12. We have we have boygirl twins who were 16 years old and a 12 year old daughter. And it became undeniable to us over the last few years that this country is on a path to hand over a United States to them that is less prosperous. That's less secure. That's more divided. That's more in debt.

37:44And which they have fewer rights than we did. We think that's a moral failure. And I learned early from my parents were public school teachers that your you know, life's measured not by what you give, but or excuse me, not by what you get. It's measured by what you give. And we felt like we couldn't stand aside any longer and watch this country hurdle toward chaos. And then in good conscious look at our kids and say we didn't try. And and so we're trying. You know, I was at when I was at the university that he said to our students about a letter that John Adams wrote to to his son. And he said to paraphrase, he said, the work of the public will be done. If good people refuse it, others will not. If honest people stay out of it, others will not. And so this is our country. This is our republic. If you can keep it as Ben Franklin said, and the only way we keep it is when people step up and they try. And that's that's what my wife and I are doing. And I'm telling you, we have a lot of Montana and sewer who are hungry and want to make a difference as well. This isn't a campaign just about us, right? This is a

38:49campaign about about all of the Montana and Americans who feel politically homeless and who who feel like this system is not serving them anymore. So yeah, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today. I'm going to link to your website on on in my newsletter to the country newsletter. If people are watching this on YouTube or listening to the to the podcast, you can go to my my website. And also I'm going to I'm going to link to the the memo which explains the politics and and the strategy because you know and why even though this is very much a long shot that it is not crazy that it is not a crazy idea. So Seth Bhatton, thank you so much for coming on. Got it. So thank you, Charlie. It's really a pleasure to be with you and I appreciate the conversation today. And thank you all for listening to today's edition of To the Contrary Podcast. I'm Charlie Sakes. You know why we do this because somebody has to remind you that we are not crazy.