Amanda Knox is Up+Adam | When Certainty Goes Wrong: From Wrongful Conviction to Criminal Justice Advocate

0:00You're up and Adam. We are beyond FM. Beyond FM. The future of broadcasting. You're broadcasting. Is here. Is here. Up and Adam. With Adam Montiel. It's community content. From Concentrate. It's up and Adam. With Adam Montiel. Happy Monday. Thanks for connecting. Appreciate you. Hope you had a great weekend. My name is Adam Montiel. Thanks for being up and Adam. So a big weekend. I got it was first of all. Fricking warm. Really freaking warm outside. And I'll tell you. It's not stopping the heat wave continuing. Maybe some relief by the weekend. We'll break down the weather. Coming up towards the end of the show. You could just look outside.

1:00You've been feeling it. You don't need me to tell you what's going on. A couple of things as we recap the weekend. Oh my god. The Domingo brunch with chef Dominique Benavides was incredible. Region the event center is. It's awesome. It's that old. And it's we remember Thomas organics. When used to be in slow for a second upstairs looking over Monterey. That's where the region event center is. It was a great spot for it. The food was great. The people were great. The vibe was awesome. So I would just, you know, killed it chef wonderfully done. Also, what else was going on? Oh, did you watch 2020? The one that aired on Friday. It was so good. It was one of the most like. It was all about the Nancy Woodrum case. She's from Paso. And I don't know how this. Seemingly got. Not past me, but I don't remember all of the details. This was a fascinating and just a crazy true crime case that happened right out of Paso.

2:01And you had this woman who had this gorgeous house where she had like, it's like a big VRBO or a big Airbnb type thing. Like a vacation rental. You know, wrap around porch, this Victorian, this gorgeous. And she had this wedding party thing. There are 20 people staying in this house. And she was taken from her home. A tack taken from her home. There's like blood on the pillow, blood everywhere. What's going on? And then you mean while you got like 20 suspects, you got to sift through. And then there's the painter. Then there's the this person in that person. It was a really interesting saga. And because I guess everything has finally been adjudicated. I don't want to spoil it for you. But if you, you know, if you're into. It's a local story. I mean, it's a completely local story. 2020 is a great job. I imagine date lines going to be messing with this one too. Because this is one of those stories that is you get deeper and deeper. You're like, oh, damn. And the both the. Former prosecutor. I can't say his name.

3:01That Pravarray or whatever. He used to be the assistant DA here in Slow County. And when he tried the Paul Flores case up north. I think they offered him a job. I think he's up there now doing something. So he's used to be here. But he was in the episode. And he obviously going to we. It's got big, you know, very popular for the work that he did successfully. Convicting Paul Flores. And then Clint Cole. He was the detective with the Slow County Sheriff's Department. That was also very instrumental in the Kristen Smart case. He was also in this episode. He's kind of now he's somewhat. At least somewhat retired. He's a they called him a reserve detective. But just an incredible. Mind this guy. The way these detectives think. And, you know, Ian Parkinson was in. There was a lot of folks in this episode of 2020. And they said a great job covering this case. And oh my God, your heart just goes out to that poor family. You know, the woodrooms and.

4:01The daughter. And so it's much to lot. It's a lot. But it was a really fascinating episode. So I thought I. You know. Dig into that for a second. If you're into those types of shows, you're going to love that one because it's literally local. So now speaking of true crime. Yikes on today's show this one. What a guest you and I got today. She was once one of the most recognizable names on earth. But for all the wrong reasons after spending four years in an Italian prison for a crime that she did not commit. Amanda Knox walked out of that experience with something most people never expect. A deep fascination with how certainty can go wrong. Now she's an author and an advocate of podcast host even. Knox has turned her experience into a mission to examine the stories. We tell about guilt about justice and really about human nature.

5:03In her new podcast called doubt. The case of Lucy let me. Amanda Knox takes a hard look at one of the most shocking criminal cases in the UK. Asking a question many people are kind of afraid to ask. What if the story everyone believes isn't the whole story. If anybody knows that she does from the psychology of public certainty to the power of finding even humor in life's darkest moments. Who know Amanda Knox is doing stand up comedy now. This gal is really something Amanda Knox joins us in just a few minutes on the show. She will be up in Adam. Can not wait. Okay. Before that a low five headline how about this Hollywood handed out some trophies last night the 2026 Academy Awards. And the big winner. Of the night what's a film called one battle after another. That's rare when. A lot of people saw this movie too a lot of times I feel like in the last ten years or so.

6:03Even increase the amount of movies that were nominated from five to ten. Because nobody was seeing these movies and this was one movie that I can't even believe I knew a movie that was even that one best film. But it did and it was a great movie. This was the one with Leo Benicio del Toro. Sean Penn. He won an Oscar. So that movie one battle after another. If the movie walked away with best picture. That had a little bit of everything big speeches big surprises a few moments that had the internet. Buzz and before the show is even over on the acting side Jesse Buckley took home best actress Michael B Jordan. Grab the award for best actor making a huge night for both performers. Jordan's win especially had people talking. He's been a powerhouse in Hollywood for well for years now, but this is the moment. I say officially cement him as one of the biggest actors of his generation for sure.

7:07And it was kind of a big deal because well they snubbed that Timothy Shalame and then he just got ripped a bunch for his opera ballet. No one cares all that drama. So the ceremony itself leaned a little bit more into classic Hollywood. I would say that in years past fewer gimmicks more focus on the films. Conan O'Brien hosted. He did a great job. He's really funny. He's a funny guy. So half the country celebrating the winners. The other half maybe googling the movies they never heard of. But there you go the Oscars last night. Maybe yeah. All right. Let's see. Before we get into our chat with the one and only Amanda Knox. I'm excited to tell you about our friends at Port of the day. And yes, you know, by now I am a bad day guy. But then you and if you are as well, a bad day man or woman, you already know the struggle. You get used to that clean, comfortable. Why the hell didn't I do the sooner feeling at home?

8:08And then you travel. You stay at a hotel and Airbnb at conference. And suddenly you feel like you're roughing it. Well, that is why I love the traveler from Port of a day. No Amazon. Shinsie squeeze bottle thing. No, it's not awkward and actually mounts to any toilet. No tools, no plumbing. You can hook it up in seconds. And it gives you real pressure, real control, real comfort. It's like bringing your home set up with you and trust me vacation. It hits different when you feel like yourself. They killed their kickstarter either shipping now and yes, up and Adam. Officially, officially partnering with Port of a day and the traveler. So if you've been a bad day, curious. This is your invitation. Hit the link in the show notes. Hey, or you can head to adamantil.com. It's there to grab the traveler. And just by hitting the link that's in the show notes or on adamantil.com, you will let them know that you heard it right here on up and Adam. And there's a good price for up and Adam listeners exclusively. So again, show notes adamantil.com and get your day on.

9:11It's up and Adam with adamantil. All right. I guess that a someone who knows first hand. What happens when the world decides a story is settled before the truth has even fully had a chance to catch up and have it say. Amanda Knox spent four years in an Italian prison. And eight years fighting to clear her name after being wrongfully convicted in a case that captivated the headlines all over the globe. Today, now she's an author, a journalist, an advocate for criminal justice reform who knew a stand up comic, her latest project, the podcast. It's called Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby. It takes a deep look at one of the most shocking criminal cases in the United Kingdom and asks, really, whether the story everyone believes is really as open and shut as it seems. And along the way, she's even found a way to reclaim her story through something

10:14most people wouldn't have expected humor. Yeah, even stand up comedy. Amanda Knox joins us now. Amanda, thank you so much for being up and Adam. I am. Oh, I love that title of your show. That's great. Thank you very much. I'm excited to have you on. You have no idea. Let me take you know, the world loves Amanda a clean narrative, right? The headline we can wrap up and move on from, but you lived what happens when the narrative is wrong. When you watch the public reaction to the conviction of Lucy Letby, do you ever feel that chill of recognition, the speed at which certainty becomes unquestionable truth? Oh, 100%. That was, I mean, and it wasn't just me, even people who are aware of my story were feeling that chill of recognition. That's actually how this case came into my awareness was people in the UK were saying,

11:16oh, my God, we haven't seen the kind of vilification of a young woman who is accused of a heinous crime, despite the fact that she has no history of violence and no motive. And there's no, like those act, there's no actual direct evidence of her doing any harm to any babies. And yet like this overwhelming narrative of here's this evil serial killer nurse has taken over the public imagination, all these people came out to me and said, we haven't seen this kind of thing since you were in the headlines. And they asked me to look into it. And you know, our stories are not identical. In fact, Lucy Letby's story is more akin to what you see in the wrongful convictions of women typically, where the vast majority of times a woman is wrongly accused of a crime. It's because no crime took place whatsoever. My case is absolutely a crime took place. They just, the story of a murder or a G took over the public imagination. And so I was blamed for someone else's crimes.

12:16But in this case, I'm really interested in how there's a bigger, like less clear villain at play, which involves just, you know, the pressures that any institution faces from staffing shortages and infrastructure challenges, that is absolutely a thing happening in the UK's national health service. How a hospital is grappling with, you know, not having all of the trained personnel that they need. And that results in a spike in these very, very premature babies dying. And, and, and instead of like acknowledging all of those like complex, you know, medical evidence and statistical reasoning and infrastructure pressures, we instead go, who was working during all of those deaths? Well, it must be that nurse. She must be serial killing babies. Like that, that immediate ease, like desire for an easy answer and an easy solution is so like it's, it's a part of us.

13:21And yet, is it, is it right? Is it fair? Because now this young woman is facing 15 life sentences and she's never going to see outside of prison, unless people start asking difficult questions in a very emotionally charged case. You were once the name people said with confidence, right? People didn't say allegedly they said she did it full stop. What if you learned about the psychology amanda of certainty? And why human beings, they need to pin the guilt on someone. Well, there are a lot of biases that take place that are completely unconscious, by the way. Like I went from, and one of them is the fact that the first thing you hear tends to color everything that you hear outside of it. So I went from being a completely anonymous person. Nobody had a clue to who I was to suddenly being brought up in the public imagination accused of a heinous crime. So already there is a stigma against me.

14:21There is already suspicion against me. In the prosecution's like case, these local law enforcement officials who are not equipped to deal with a very, like this, this crime that happened, like this local, like it was a small town, there aren't murders that are happening in this small town. It's outrageous. People are out of their minds. The local, the local and international media has shown up. And everybody is demanding arrest someone immediately. And instead of allowing the facts to lead the investigation, it was all based on vibes. Like the prosecution, like the local law enforcement just didn't understand that I was a 20-year-old kid who didn't even understand what was going on, because I couldn't speak the language very well. And so I'm emotionally responding a little bit differently than other people around me, because I don't understand what everyone's yelling about. And suddenly I find myself at the center of a crazy story that has momentum. And so the prosecution, instead of admitting that they were wrong when the evidence all comes in pointing to a local burglar,

15:25they instead continue to construct this narrative that insists upon my involvement, even though there's no evidence to support that fact. And I think that that is like, what's most interesting for me is I do not think it takes intentional wrongdoing for that to happen. I think that we can trick ourselves into believing a false story because we don't realize how we are internally motivated not to admit we are wrong on a public state. Yeah, that's such a great point. You know, you lived through something most people would never even joke about, let alone survive. And yet you stepped onto it. This is one of the biggest aspects of you. I mean, I've loved your story and I've known your story since it began. But you came up on that stand-up stage girl. There's something, there's something almost rebellious about it, like you're reclaiming the narrative yet with a punchline. And I'm kind of curious because, you know, my fiance is always like Adam, like when I say something, I'll use my sense of humor to get me through things.

16:26Was there a moment when you realized, Amanda, if I can laugh at this, it doesn't own me anymore? Oh, 100%. And thank you for that because it's something that I, it is a little bit rebellious in the sense that when people tell me, you can't do something. I'm like, oh, really? I'm not allowed to have a sense of humor because you associate me with tragedy. Like, let me lean into that. And absolutely, like being human involves being, like living through absurd situations. And I find that it's actually very validating and cathartic for me to embrace the absurdity of the situation itself. And also have the opportunity to laugh at myself, right? Like, you know, and I do find myself to this day in absurd situations where that are funny in the end. Like they're either tragic or they're funny. And to give you a great example, I went to urgent care because I had like an injury to my knee. And I'm a little bit freaking out over my knee. The nurse walks in, looks at my chart, says Amanda Knox,

17:28too bad that other one ruined your name. And I'm like, I am that other one. Oh, my God. Like, there are two ways to respond to that absurd scenario. You can either cry about it, or you can laugh about it. And go, yeah, people associate me with a, with, with all of the worst things humanly possible. And that leads to a credibly like curb your enthusiasm level awkwardness and cringe. And I can, I can embrace that as something to laugh about instead of just hiding a closet and cry. Good for you. I mean, I truly admire you for it. And seeing you up there with whether you're doing that small little club around there with Nikki Glazer, I've watched a lot of your stuff. And, you know, even if you're going into like the stuff with your husband and having kids and what that does to your libido, like, it was so just vulnerable. And your vulnerability, Amanda, it's a superpower. We got links to everything related to the show and the, the podcast in there. I can't think enough of being up in Adam. Oh, well, thank you so much for having me.

18:29So, Amanda, so good. Thank you so much for the combo, for the work you're doing. You know, her story is one that continues to challenge how we think about justice, media, and the very human need for certainty. That's what I really wanted to ask her about. I was so lucky. I wish that the interview was longer. I was so lucky. I was so lucky. I was so lucky. I was so lucky. I was so lucky. I was so lucky. I was so lucky. I was so lucky. I was so lucky. I wish that the interview was longer. She's one of those of you just like, and I could talk to you for a long, long time. Pull up a chair. Let's grab a drink. So, thanks so much. Thanks to Amanda Knox. All of her work, her book, that podcast, her website, all of it, her Insta, all those links are in the show notes. All right. Choose a big get, huh? All right. Today, locally, if you step down and thought, wow, it's hot for March, you're not crazy. Slow-cow in the middle of a full on, heat wave.

19:30Some spots could be seen record-breaking temperatures this week. Strong high pressure system parked over our state. Basically, it's a big atmospheric lid that's just kind of trapping in the heat. You can tell when that breeze moves around. It's like, what's up warm? That's a warm situation there. What does it mean for us? Temperatures climbing well into the 80s, even 90s inland, record highs possible across San Luis Obispo County, National Weather Service, even has issued heat alerts for some areas warning that the combo of hot days, warm nights, it can really increase that risk of heat illness. So, remember, yes, this is mid-March. But the good news, the forecast does show a little relief by the weekend. Temperatures back down a bit, maybe up or 60s into the 70s. And that's good news. But until then, make sure you hydrate. Check on your neighbors, check on. You know, maybe you've got some elderly folks locally that you know of.

20:30Your pets never leave them in the car, not even for a second. And your wine never leaves it in the car, even for a second. And if you're in places like Paso or Inland, it's going to feel a lot more like August than spring break. Let's stay hydrated. All right. Well, I hope you have a wonderful beginning to your week, a wonderful Monday. Lots of fun shows coming up this week. Excited. Want to thank Moonshine Collective for being a part of this show. They will... They're countries this Friday, isn't it? Yeah, March 20th. SlowBrew Rock. MoonshineCollective.com for more. MoonshineCollective.com. Stream them also. Wherever you get your music. And I thank them for original music on this show called Start Again. Also, Ajash Chiasa Klopper. Friends from Tamber Winery. T-I-M-B-R-E. Taste their wines in the village of A Royal Grande. TamberWinery.com. And I thank them enthusiastically for the Tamber Low-Brew Studios. All right. Till tomorrow.

21:30I hope you have a great day. Have a great day. Thank you so much for being up in Adam. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye.