AI Productivity vs AI Security: The Human Risk Behind AI with Fable Security

0:00When you start a business or even something like this podcast, you realize pretty quickly how many things you suddenly have to figure out You're thinking about the product, the brand, the website, the marketing and at the same time you're just trying to get something out into the world I remember those early days of building businesses where every week There was another system to learn or a tool to figure out. That's why platforms that simplify things can make such a big difference And for a lot of entrepreneurs, that platform is Shopify Shopify powers millions of businesses around the world and about 10% of all e-commerce in the US From huge brands to people just launching their first product that make it really easy to build a great looking online store With ready to use templates that match your brand Shopify also has built-in tools Including AI features that help write product descriptions, page headlines, and even improve your product photos And everything runs in one place inventory payments Analytics shipping returns, so you're not juggling five different platforms just to run your business

1:00Start your business today with the industry's best business partner shopify and start hearing Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com slash Ryan that's shopify.com slash RYA in when AI process when you give a prompt if you give a clear prompt you have to process tokens There's a cost associated with every prompt or every question one thing open AI I believe I said is there are people I'm one of those people I'll be like can you please do this thing for me? Thank you and they said if you add please and thank you it takes up more tokens just be direct just remove all the Puzzle tree that's crazy for me. I'm Canadian. I say sorry. I say thank you. I say please all the time Turn out. That's not good for AI. It's not as costly This is right about now with Ryan Alfred a Radcast Network production We are the number one business show on the planet with over one million downloads a month Taking the BS out of business for over six years and over 400 episodes

2:03You ready to start snapping necks and cash and checks? Well, it starts right about now Companies are adopting generative AI tools faster than almost any technology we've seen the productivity upside is real But so are the risks today's guest is working at the intersection of AI adoption and cyber security helping companies understand Why the biggest threats aren't always hackers their human behavior Nicole Jang is the co-founder of fable security and today Talking about how organizations can embrace AI without accidentally exposing their most valuable data Nicole Welcome to write about now. Thanks for having me great to meet you I know you're in Boston today. We're in South Carolina We got the East Coast covered and we're gonna talk all things AI security It's funny Nicole. This is something that's been on my mind I was having flashbacks when the internet started getting going and we started googling everything and we started putting all our stuff on social media It dawned on me. This was probably like a two thousand four or five. We sure Openly giving up a lot of information. What is happening all this stuff? It now sort of had the same epiphany a few weeks ago

3:05Which is why I love having opportunity to have you on the show is like yeah, they would need to think about this a little more than we are Not slow it down, but just be aware I'm sure we love looking at things we've posted 10 15 20 years ago Is a good throwback, but also just like oh wow? There's a lot of things on the internet that we shared yeah Exactly and so now we're telling AI our deepest secrets so it can help us solve puzzles right contracts All that stuff and I was like well, where is that data going? I have a feeling you might tell us but Nicole I make this on this topic because it's like so real for me my own and businesses and use it So let's set the table give everyone a little bit of your background We got you into fable security and cyber security and all that good stuff My name is Nicole Zhang co-founder CEO of fable security. We've built a human risk Platform that shapes secure employee behavior behind the scenes with leverage and mix of AI at tackle Purchase to understanding employee behavior in enterprise We deploy just in time personalized interventions when we see employees doing some things that might expose more risks and Necessary for organization. We do this better than typical annual security

4:08Compliance training, which is what the industry status quo looks like our approach is relevance personalize It really drives at the risky behavior at time when things are happening almost like that just in time coach The reason why we started this business had a lot to do with my previous background with me and my co-founder Sandy came from a attack background So making ads super relevant super clickable Convert people from buying things not even know that they want our sheer background also came from abnormal securities Another startup before that we were founding members of we leverage AI to look for phishing attacks Fishing became super prevalent in today's age AI unfortunately super charges attackers Like they literally have the tools to send you really targeted phishing threats and saying I both realized that We really want to focus on a human layer to teach people to better defend themselves from not just bad phishing But also all sorts of social engineer attacks all sorts of things that people may do that introduces risk Not just enterprises, but also for themselves And so that's the reason why I became super interested in not just cyber security

5:11But ways to protect people and ensure that we can all be more productive and more effective as we work I've got me have people like you get annoyed about tech security back channels Oh, they're putting the the guard rails on everything. I tend to be a rule-baker But I actually really appreciate the people that actually put the guard rails up that need to be there to Help us from ourselves and especially from the bad guys. Thank you for the service to our cyber community This stuff is I think about the like the curve of Internet and then social media and then the speed with which we could do these things with bandwidth increases AI is on all that on steroids. It's like yeah moving so fast Our companies moving faster than their security frameworks when I look at customers that we serve today We're seeing interesting Diversions companies that have been this industry for the past 10 years looking at cyber I see a lot of companies going through digital transformation

6:11So if you ask 10 years ago, it's like moving from on-prem setup to cloud, right? So that was a big shift We're seeing companies that are forward thinking their more mature. They are really technology driven They're getting so much more upside from AI and now we're also seeing companies that might be the generation They've been around for over a hundred years. They have a solid business They're maybe not as tech enabled or digital transformed. They're a bit slower So we're seeing adoption curves in various ways and so that's the shape of the companies and then from a security perspective It's also around how companies view security. Everyone is security. There are compliance requirements There's a baseline. There's a lot of now common languages on when used to be done from a security level But I do see that companies who are really thinking about investing in digital AI technology transformation They really double triple down in their security investments And as some may still be checking the box I really see the divergence of companies based on their tech sabbiness, their belief in modernizing Now from a particular companies that are really adopting AI

7:11You really do. I think it really depends on the people People in the company, for example, if you're a very developed, eccentric company You just see like a ton of crazy things I'd be looking to do with AI They're tinker and they're trying and the organization allows them to do that Right, they take on the risk for innovation and the trade-offs might be risk for some other ones They're worried about, for example, their health care companies You're worried about HIPAA financial you care about PCI API They're real like financial business consequences if you tinker too much We also see other companies will create playground or sandbox for people to play And then it's a balance of letting people try things out in a way But also like not break the bottom line for the business We're seeing all of those but we are seeing more and more companies Just their time is spent on trying AI Being more productive And if you're in this like marathon race Some are the beginning at one end and some are kind of trialing And I think that space will become larger as we go Some people have to go slower due to risk, risk tolerance, data

8:12And then some are stodgy and need to be moving faster They're going to be irrelevant And then there's the ones that are moving really quick that are really nimble I can speak small business but I talk to Cisco I mean some of the largest corporations in the world So I'll speak from kind of both ends of it As small business I had 18 to 20 employees in 2021 I really grew faster than I wanted to I worked in Manhattan, I had team of 100 people Directly or indirectly reporting to me I didn't want it I didn't start my business going offshore I just did not want to maintain as many people Part of it was intentional kind of scale back But what the last few couple three years has done It's not replaced those people because I kind of scaled the business away from them So it wasn't oh I just replaced all these people with AI No, it allowed me to do some things to maybe accelerate the de-scaling Because I could take on more I now have a gentick AI throughout my businesses As a small business And I know I'm probably ahead on the small business curve Because I've worked nationally and have this background

9:12But I also have started to pause and go Okay, where's all this data going? And I know open AI or chat GPT opening out Okay, they've got security measures I've read as much as I can stand with the legal jargon It's in all this stuff It's funny because I own a publishing company On the podcast network side And then I own an agency And so I'm developing tools thinking about that data And then I've got the podcast network side With publishing and I'm going What about all this content? How's that being digested and then used And why aren't we getting paid for it? That's a whole other topic There's a lot of people asking these types of questions right now Like myself at all levels Which is this is great I'm comfortable moving fast But sometimes you don't know what you don't know But I know I don't know something that I might Should know about where all this data is going And what I need to be thinking about That's what we got you here in a call What do we need to be thinking about And what kind of sensitive information Are people accidentally sharing with AI tools Hey guys If you've ever built a website before You know how quickly you can turn into a time suck

10:14Recently I've been playing around with Wix's new hybrid editor Called Wix Harmony You basically start by telling it What you're trying to build You prompt it to generate a professional grade site Just like you want And here's the part I like You can easily go back and forth between AI And hands-on editing whenever you want The AI agent ARIA is an expert In website design and business You can answer questions Or perform direct actions throughout the process Which has been huge for me When I'm trying to perfect But look at my website You've also got built-in tools for selling Bookings and marketing Pretty much all the stuff you actually need Once the site's live You're building anything right now A site project brand, business, whatever Wix Harmony honestly makes it easier To get out of your own way And start making stuff happen Go to wix.com Backslash Harmony That's wix.com Backslash Harmony Start your website today I have a couple of thoughts on this And I've been thinking quite a bit about it If you think about AI in its like

11:15Pure's pure form Not even technical gardens What does AI do for you? AI is running Rays give you insights faster than a human analyst For you to reach 20 block posts Service to insight You can now say Read all of them Give me the insight Ask me questions Painpal and be my reasoning partner AI can automate certain things for you Before you have to do Step 1 through 20 To get you a task Now you can automate those things running the background These things are given instructed The way you want some things to be done Requires hyper clarity on the outcome you're looking for And AI is just extracting data Content information that you have in your system today So when I think about the two risks If you don't know what you're looking for And you ask a stupid question That exposes risk in ways that You may not get an employee does this You go why are they asking this question Can they should they be asking this question Damn if the answers question They might get the answers now And the answers so easy So this is like a net new set of things that folks are worried about The other piece is I think AI also makes it If you think about it right Every AI service won't faster adoption So they say Integrate with all your tool stack

12:16We can do all these things People don't think no one thinks about permissioning No one thinks about data But they think about adoption Easy click one click If your house is not clean Like if your database is not clean If your systems are not clean A lot of companies don't think about that You can ask a question You get the answers Because the underlying data Is chaotic on its own When I see our customers And maybe for you Ryan Getting your drops done Getting your tasks done It's awesome But then who did the data clean up in the first place There's also just this fundamental Regardless of AI Regardless of how we use There is still a fundamental Data hygiene Security hygiene thing Though we got to figure out All these advancements It's putting the security foundation Into a massive test An attacker knows that And so they really try to exploit Now with additional vectors In a faster way Through AI through prompting That's why When I think about security practitioners It might feel stressed Knowing that their house needs to be in a order To support all these evolution Of technology Superhero movies is like Who has the superpowers Who are the mutants The good guys and the bad guys Have the same superpowers

13:17Who's using them best The bad guys are using these tools To take all these other stuff To advance their criminal behavior Or they're sneaking around Or whatever they're doing No matter how nefarious or non-nefarious it is As the good guys We got to use these same superpowers To both protect it And to use it for what we're Ultimately using it for It's like anything else The bad guys seem to always be At least even And sometimes one step ahead of us And not that we're all perfect I'm 100% sure I'm not a criminal I'd be called a cheater In a few board games Every now and then But as I mean it was true Nicole I just like to win It's like I feel like we're playing chess Right The attackers can be offensive We're defensive And it's just a mindset It's kind of different And so that's why in cyber You also see offensive teams Who's trying to break systems We can think like attackers too And actually AI unlocks that really I think it's a huge value ad For security teams But also unfortunately attack surface expands We also just have to work really hard And be very creative When it comes to how to better protect

14:18You mentioned something about How direct what outcomes we want And usually it's my own Lack of clarity that causes the AI's Bad behavior or bad outcome That I didn't want But anyway I digress I just wanted to come on here On this episode it made sense I admit It's sometimes I mean To my AI person Trying to get it to be more efficient When AI process when you give a prompt If you give a clear prompt You have to process tokens There's a cost associated With every prompt or every question One thing open AI I believe I said Is there are people I'm one of those people I'll be like Can you please do this thing for me Thank you And they said If you add please and thank you It takes up more tokens Just be direct Just remove all the pleasantries That's crazy for me I'm Canadian I say sorry I say thank you I say please All the time Turn out that's not good for AI Turn out it's costly And after the south So I kind of do the same thing I do I had the pleasantries on the front end But then when I'm mad at it I'm like you know This is really Causing me more time and hours today Your whole purpose in life Is to save me time and energy

15:19And all you've done is call it anyway What I'm hearing from you is That's great Maybe you felt better It's just costing you more money Because you're just using tokens It's costing you money But hey if it works It works for you Like ultimately it's about you It's less about the AI But yeah just say Too many prompts Make a short Be efficient Walk me through What you're going to do differently I love it Hey good tip for anyone out there I'm not the only one I'm the only one that mits things As we close out here in the cold Always like quick tips Action will stuff For anyone that's listening Small medium We got executives For other big companies We got entrepreneurs Run startups Maybe A handful of things Easy things people could do To maybe have a little more AI hygiene And their cyber security We're all going to be Superior prompters As we acquire skills in the AI world My recommendation is Number one's totally fine to be curious But number two is also just ask a question Of should I be concerned about The data AI can you please Sanitize my data Sanitize my queries And make sure that The AI can do the security Mind it work for someone I think the second thing is

16:19Remember Don't give out your credit card Information don't give out Your passport Don't give out your Blood type Ryan Let's just do the same thing In the AI world And make sure that The information you care about Just ask for it to omit And AI would do the job for you Regularity goes through Hey are things shared That AI really shouldn't be AI can probably find out about that Really quickly for you too And they can take action Those are good hygiene To just ask And prompt Almost like part of your regular workflow Those are good It's so funny Everything's meta With this Because AI can assist in Whatever thing We're trying to solve That might be related to AI It's sort of I don't know This meta circle I always find myself And I'm like I'm trying to We're worried about this with AI But can AI help me And it seems like it can AI is like your reasoning Partner and just does so much I'm really excited about the outcome The the future of where This technology can go Nicole Tell everyone Where they can learn more About Fable security yourself And stay in touch Or learn Any of the sharing You might be having universally You can learn about us I've fablesecurity.com Our website Shows a lot about what we do

17:19When it comes to protecting Human risk Understanding employee behavior And figuring out ways to share target interventions I can elevate your overall Security hygiene Whether it's AI Adoption Whether it's Sharing sensitive data Whether it's also just defending against External threat actors We're based in San Francisco California Our office is running the heart of downtown We work in person We love being there to collaborate So if you're ever in town Our door is open I really appreciate you for coming on Let's do it again soon Absolutely Let's stay in touch to Nicole I'd love to have you on every now and then This is a very topical thing Real thing Is things evolved Yeah Have a fabulous rest of the day Thank you Great to meet you Thank you for having me on the show Yeah You're a good time Take care Thanks See you This has been right about now With Ryan Alford A Radcast network production Visit RyanisRite.com For full audio And video versions of the show Order one choir About sponsorship opportunities Thanks for listening