Adding value to the Irish milk pool with Conor Mulvihill, Dairy Industry Ireland

0:00Since 2018, we've had Brexit, we've had Covid, we've had Ukraine or we've had energy spikes, we've had Tehran stuff now as we speak. We've come out of each and every one of those challenges of an industry. Stronger, stronger than ever. Yeah, we're probably in an era now in terms of last couple of years, probably plateauing in terms of that mixed supply that explosion from just under 5 billion litres to now just under 9 billion litres, which is a phenomenal success story for not just Royal Ireland for the Irish economy full stock, but we are now probably going into an age where what does success look like? How do we go up to value chain? How do we keep farmers on the land? How do we draw add value, etc. This week's episode is a special one as it marks the 500 episode of the Dairy Edge podcast. We're taking a look beyond the farm gas to the wider dairy industry. I'm joined today by Conor Malveil, director of dairy industry Ireland. We'll discuss

1:05the remit of dairy industry Ireland within the wider industry, the current market outlook. What value added really means for Irish dairy, the importance of the grass fed story and some of the key challenges and opportunities facing the industry. So we have three wings. We have primary dairy, which a lot of urely snares are supplying it to. So you have your member co-ops tear on being the biggest buy volume, but also or newer and that you also have a specialised nutrition wing. So we're very lucky in Ireland that we're world leaders and specialised nutrition. We represent we produce here on this island over 10% of the globes in from formula, for example, where we also produce a lot of other dairy based specialised nutrition. And about five years ago we added our third wing, which is food for special medical purposes, which is if you have a relative in the hospital low james or any of your listeners, they're often on products like nutrition products, protein

2:07products, fat products, general cancer patients, people in nursing homes. So that's where we're trying to encourage the regulation and technology of our dairy farmers up to that supply chain. So that's a big element of my work at the moment. First episode was of the podcast was aired in in 2018, January 2018. That's eight years ago now, Connor, from your perspective, how was the Irish dairy industry maybe changed over that period? We're working on eight years, you're working on ten years. So we'll take it that period at the ten years. How was it changed, I suppose? And where do you think this sector stands today? Maybe compared to that point in time. So huge change, james, in terms of the last, we'll say the faith last 15 years, many extended a little bit more have been most transformative years for Irish dairy and the history of the thousand years of our industry that we've had in this island. In 2018, remember we were in the throes of our dairy expansion

3:09all planned, by the way, in terms of the post quarter era that kind of kicked in from 2014, 2014, 2015 on. And then, of course, we're one year into the back of that was Brexit, in terms of the division of our island dairy economy, because remember, we've been all island dairy economy here in Ireland and our key market in an absolute flux, which to this day, people say, how did you get over Brexit on our day in 2016, 2017, 2018? And I was like, is it finished? News to me, we're still dealing to this day with the outrunning of Brexit. But what I will say is we have got through since 2018, we've had Brexit, we've had Covid, we've had Ukraine or we've had energy spikes, we've had terran stuff now, as we speak, we have come out of each and every one of those challenges of an industry. Stronger, stronger than ever. Yeah, we're probably in an year and now, in terms of the last couple of years, probably plateauing in terms of that mixed supply,

4:10that explosion from just under five billion litres to now, just under nine billion litres, which is a phenomenal success story for not just rural Ireland for the Irish economy full stock. But we are now probably going into an age where we're and we'll talk about probably later, James, about what the success looked like, how do we go up to value chain, how do we keep farmers in the land, how do we draw ad value, etc. So, we're at the moment. And that's the questions. It was very clear, I suppose, back then, Conor, in terms of the whole post-coated thing, where we were going, I suppose it's maybe not as clear in terms of there's not as big a policy change, maybe as we go forward, but in terms of how do we continue to improve the industry, grow the industry and add value, which we'll actually come to. I want to pick your brain maybe on the current situation in global dairy markets. And what are the key trends that are maybe shaping returns for our Irish milk producers at the moment? Yeah, so after a difficult 2023 and 2024 for Irish dairy, let's call a spade,

5:16with a golden era from 2015, 2014, 2015 onto 2023, then there was the era of what I call policy incoherence. There was the trial of nitrous, there was the trial of all those issues, there was climate change, legislation, people, and like we saw a huge, huge decrease in Irish dairy unexpectedly, 9% over 2023 and 2022 and reform reduction of mixed supply, which was wasn't in the script, this was after 15 years of constant growth to the point whenever I went out to Europe on the half of DII and to the European Dairy Association, people were coming, what the hell is happening Ireland? And I said, look, this is planned, we've been planning for this since 1983 guys to roll like this is, we've been we've been held back. So there was a bit of negativity, I'm sure, and like I have heard your podcast, this has been debated over the course in those couple of years and looked at many policy incoherence from my ivory tower with

6:18no weather or price sentiment, then in 2025, I sometimes use the phrase, the Empire struck back last year, the Empire, those of you who see Star Wars, the big bad dairy industry roared back into action over 2025 and we the brilliant year driven by exceptional market prices driven by Karsburg weather year, you couldn't get better weather at the time, just wind drought was common rain cane, you got good sentiment within the coax and processors, you had the change of policy in America and globally where people wanted to move away from what were called ultra-process foods and move back towards real food, which dairy was a big, big topic. Yes, it has to be acknowledged, things got very difficult in the autumn of the year on, but remember, we were well-passed peak, we'd 85% of the milk kind of processed at that stage. So yes, when I speak to you here now in mid-match

7:192026, markets are still not great, but at the same time, till there's green shoots emerging in your GDTs and your pieces and like a silver lining to the tragedy that's happening there in the Middle East at the moment, James is as oil prices rise, dairy prices rise as long as in the 25 years I'm following it. So look, I certainly not trying to make, make hate out of what is a global tragedy and people will be under pressure and costs will come in and show me my touch on that as well, not just for farmers but for processors will come in, but you will accelerate, we're hoping at recovery in dairy markets. And would you say that kind of short to medium term, term was a lot of maybe talk that was going to be maybe into that third quarter before we we'd maybe see recovery in markets and you look at the options, they're probably picking up pace may be quicker than then people might have projected. Every optimist, James, we're having a

8:24look, it has to be said to know that that co-ops and processors will overpaid from milk last year in terms of where the market went because they paid in advance and obviously product takes a while to go through. So let's say farmer boards will be working their way through that they own, they know their own businesses inside out better than me. So look, there will be a bit of a lag, but look, look, the recovery is well under way as well. I'd say James, you're not going to give us any market projections in terms of cents per liter, Connor, where you take it might go over the common months. Yeah, what I would say is demand is holding, but there was an increase in milk supply in all key markets. Remember, we're 93% exporters. We don't have an internal market in Ireland that will support joint milk price. We are dependent on global markets. When you're exporting the bones of 19 out of 20 liters of milk that are produced this morning and cabin and then carry in limerick, you know, you have to take the global price for all your commodities.

9:25It's about diversifying that. So look, we had no expertise in dairy industry Ireland in terms of a milk price per se. What we try to do is create a commercial environment for the Irish dairy industry to thrive and work with partners like board B and the government to get around and get true any issues. But look, I think we can look forward to 2026 with better confidence than we had a Christmas pull that way James. We hear the term and it actually come up there maybe as we as we look forward as an industry farmers hear the term a lot value added and that maybe is the space in terms of that we're looking in, you know, when this goes in the future of Irish dairy, what does value added actually look like in practice for the industry and how important is it maybe for improving the value of Irish milk given the fact that we export a lot of product, we export a lot of product or a lot of cheese. So, you know, when we have this whole discussion around value added, what does it actually look like? What's happening in that space? Yeah, the first thing and we'll touch on maybe this later as well. The first thing to realize about Irish dairy

10:30processing is we have we have a double ed sword. So we have our greatest asset is also our greatest weakness in our processing is that the product we make is high value grass fed, high quality milk. But the issue is we guess the vast bulk of our supply over summer month because of the model we go down. But then from our processing perspective and I'm not complaining about this, I very much a believer of the grass fed model that we have in terms of cost and reputation. But it means that we have to as an industry we the processors have to process that as soon as it comes in, which means your options for selling on that product become a little bit more limited than they would in say your Arles, your efficient campaigners who are maybe more of a flatline and who can really structure what they're doing. Now, that's not making excuses for us in the least, but it just it has to be acknowledged because it's often not brought up in debates so that we as an industry essentially have stainless steel for essentially a one-month

11:35period of the year peak and then we take those costs in the shoulders. And that's fine, we actually support that. Then for your value added story, I can go and talk to you about protein, sports nutrition, elder care, life care, all of that kind of stuff, consumer foods, etc. But at the end of the day, even if we're talking again on your 1000 episode, James, commodities are still going to be very important to us because of the nature of how we have to process that very quickly. So once you make butter, you have skim, milk powder that goes up and down, you're taking the fat in one direction, you're taking protein in another direction. And then we're just always trying to trying to look where the next value added piece is. But I do think there has to be a conversation and there is a conversation in terms of how do we know once we know in a stage we're not really building the factories we did over the course in the 2010s and the early 2020s

12:37that are our industry and our members are looking into that strategy of how you're going to add value add. And by Jesus James, we have some success stories around our industry both in the native industry but also help international partners. I would challenge some of your listeners to next time they're watching Farmer the Warner, they're drive to survive. Who are the main sponsors of McLaren? Optimum nutrition, which is a glandia brand of which tear on our youth supplier. If you want to see where the new the new Irish dairy is going, drawing terms of it. So I'm not not claiming victory or anything but it's it's what is going to farm if we can get over obviously we might touch on the sustainability challenges into the industry into the future. But if we can get over to those issues and keep their industry where we have it at the moment, you know, we can really drive on and that value added. And Ireland is in a brilliant position in terms of the global wants this pure quality Irish dairy which we're able to

13:42provide. They're not they're looking for pure foods of which we can be a fundamental building block. And it's the challenge of us as industry with the support of our farmer suppliers is to convince the world that we're able to do that which what does I'm afraid include our food safety our environmental metrics are our logistical metrics and proving those proof points to the international markets, but we can do it. We're never going to develop James while equally our friends have in terms of all these heritage cheeses. Yes, we've some brilliant amazing total cottage cheeses and some who are getting to the markets that has kind of gone beyond us now from an Irish perspective and might I hope to be proven wrong and a new type of parmesan will be invented in Ireland, but that's not where we're going or our futures high value value added dairy and probably into as an ingredient into special products like infant formula young child farmer or lifestyle foods. You mentioned that they're around the grass-based production system

14:49and how important is that grass fed story maybe in that international market pace and you've touched on it, but you know do you see that as a farmer value added in itself? Sometimes my mind boggles, John, I'm a very proud Irish man, I'm a very proud participant in the Irish dairy industry probably can hear that from our conversation so far, but I sometimes wins about, John, when it's just seen as a received wisdom that Irish dairy is the best in the world. Great, yeah, I believe that myself, but you have to prove it. Everyone thinks their dairy is the best in the world. Everyone thinks their dairy is the best in the world. So what we have to do is go beyond and find out what are our proof points. Remember in the European Union and alone, we're only 24% to make supply. In the globe, we're just over 1% to make supply. So why would someone in China, John, what do you respect? They don't know the wheat and glimmer can have in our armies and then John, things like that, but John, what do you respect? 99.9% of the people in the world don't know that.

15:52So what you're looking for is what is your USP, your unique divider that max you out? And for me, it'll be grass fed and always grass fed. So that is not to disparage anyone who's not in that system and there's different people and different views and I think there's a place for that in the Irish system, but for me, if you want to associate success of the Irish industry and what max is out, let's say, in the US, in Germany, in Australia and China, I think grass fed is the way to go. Another thing that's cropping up, and you mentioned it there in in some of our conversation in terms of milk price volatility and it's obviously something farmers have experienced over the years. It was all well-touted as opposed post 2015 post-quoted that that maybe could become more common as well. Do you think there's a role maybe for milk

16:54price and stability mechanisms in Ireland? And I suppose what sort of options might exist to help manage that volatility? I do. Is the quick answer and it's very controversial. Our members have tried to roll out our price contracts and to be honest, I'm going to call a spade a spade here, James. And I'm from a farmer in background myself, farmers only want to win and when they go down, they don't want to hear about it and say, well, so a milk price, milk forward milk contracts are there to smooth volatility. So you'll have times you win and you lose. There's been a lot of innovation in Ireland in terms of it. The milk flex element that some of your listeners would be participant in is a great example of that, where it's kind of, Joe, power contracts for beginners for one to the better word. Power contracts have been rolled out in nearly every company and every cop has tried them.

17:58But there has been issues and a lot of people got burnt in that 2023 element and I have a lot of sympathy for that. My view as well is that we should not throw the baby over the bad water. I think the experience of the last couple of months in the markets could be mitigated a lot if there was far, far, far price contracts. I'm not saying us as industry should be absolved of that. Joe, but certainly like we should have learned had learnings, maybe color and cough mechanisms. I think we should look for experience in terms of how we price milk, how we, how we design it. I think we're not fit for purpose. Joe, in terms of even how we price three by six and three by three in terms of how we price it like that's something from the stonage. Joe, we're the only country to my knowledge in the world that even does that. We don't even know how to account for a milk at the moment, but to my end get out of that far, far price contracts. So that's something I think can be addressed to one BDII or BDII, hopefully with your eye costs, your IFAs, your ICBSAs, your department, your CSO. What I'd strongly

19:03call for an honest discussion about far price contracts and how we price milk because we're going into an age where the leader of milk really means nothing and you've heard of that from. I was just going to actually say that in terms of we still talk about sense per liter. Is it time that industry may be moved on from that and was a little bit more innovative in terms of like really your paid per kilo was all it now, Connor, and it's more not familiar with I suppose on our final listeners were used to the sense per liter conversation. I'd be the last person to dictate to anyone about how they draw the price, their milk, be it gallons or leaders and fact content and things like that. But in the world I live with, I live with and I represent some of these companies. I interact with other companies. They don't care about the leader of milk per se. So I know those drinking leaders of Irish milk around the world. So I mean our products aren't so your your your bottle of of avenue more at all. So which is what a lot of people who

20:08are not involved with industry. What they're buying is fractites. They're buying fat and protein, yes, but huge fractites actually the valuable element in terms of the bits away, for example, all the different elements within way, which would mind boggle you alone. So everything that are that is coming out and and literally nearly James thousands of different kind of micro products that are coming out of milk like we're so lucky to have this amazing product that we're one of them. And I'm going to contradict myself, but we're able to produce because of an accident of geography and climate and culture in Ireland and 5,000 years of history behind us. Like I often I had a group of French farmers in last night into D.I.I. Mussolier and I was showing them a graph to say that your average person in Europe, Joe, their dairy industry maybe produces about 300 liters per person per capita in Ireland.

21:08It's 1,800 liters per person per year just to show you the importance of dairy per capita into the economy. It's off the scale like it also annoys me sometimes James when I see Ireland's, I get this the whole time when I'm in Dublin from particularly dealing with maybe officials and people who are outside the egg, if you go to a parent-to-finance, the parent-to-bench rights. Sure, I sure agree is a sunset industry and sure, Luca, you're a climate change and all this sort of stuff. And sure, if we got really these, sure, we could drive on with Google and Pfizer. And I can point to figures we did with EY James in terms of showing that agriculture, dairy alone and not even counting tillids and beef and sheep, dairy alone's value to the Irish economy is about 19 billion a year now. The last figure we did was 2023, which is 17.8 billion euros. Just to put in that in context, if you put every hotel, every bar, every restaurant in the country

22:10together as one single industry in terms of hospitality industry, that's 11 billion. Farmer's probably maybe feel that is that understood enough, Connor? Like it's already taken as granted as such, it's there. The farmers at the minute are calving their cows or milking their cows. Probably don't get enough recognition and I know there's lots of different elements of the industry obviously that do the need to come together maybe and sell that message better or what you're talking about. I absolutely think so. And I think we're divils, James, for talking down our industry. We're divils talk about it. Yes, there's price crisis. Yes, it's difficult to mold. People are down my fadders as we speak, probably pulling a calf down someplace in South Limerick as we speak. It's tough, tough gone. But like hopefully we might talk to generation renewal later, but like we have a fantastic industry. We are after, between strategy and hard work

23:11and look, we've stumbled and planned our way into an industry. I'm talking dairy here, particularly. And this is coming from a soccer farmer's son, John, where John, a good middle class lifestyle can be made from an average herd of cows. John, I mean, you could rare a family. Yeah, it's not easy, but you can have a good life out of that. And we have achieved that very few other countries on this planet have achieved that. It's industrial farming. You go down to even what is supposed to be our peer dairy economy. And you know that this James, from your own work, New Zealand, Jesus, you're at nothing unless you're five hundred plus cows. You're at nothing, not to mind the costs and things like that. So like we're in a very lucky situation, what a precipice situation where we have here. And I just do think to your point, James, we have to be a lot more positive about dairy and agriculture in general. In this other ways, we're going to talk ourselves into being a sunset industry. And why do you? Costs, under what mentioned there, we do enough. A lot of them. There's been a big focus,

24:16obviously, on costs of farm level. I'm seeing massive increases from 2020. We'll need to 2022. Maybe we thought that we're going to be short-lived, but Connor at commercial farm level, they're there. They're kind of, they're sticking. There's lots of variation within that. And I don't doubt there's must be the same from a processing point of view. So I suppose what is, what's the process in industry doing with regard measures taken as opposed to manage costs and maintain competitiveness in that space? So first, yeah, I started with the bad news, James. And I alluded to it, it ain't gone away. With the conflict in the release, it will will not help this. And we're seeing it run through with fuel and fertilizer already. And they will have knock on impacts. Okay, so we'll just take that as a given and your listeners will know that. What I do think we have to be a lot more ruthless now in this new reality for both, and I'm talking to when I talk to my own shop mostly, firstly, in terms of what we control in terms of

25:19processors on behalf of the farmers, but also the farmers themselves. We really, really need to tighten our own belts and look what we can do both inside the factory gate and inside the farm gate to reduce costs. Because every cent we spend is off the profit margin of both out of the farmers' pockets. So yeah, when we're growing, you have to spend to grow, you know, speculate to communicate, John, that has been there. We're now on a kind of a year or a year where we're probably going to try and hold our own, particularly in this post nitrates era. And John, we might touch on that later, but I think we want to stop the clock for three years. We haven't had a victory. We want to kick things out to 2028. Would we have to use these three years, in my view, despite what is happening in the markets and geopolitics, I think, to really, really acidiously look at costs, in our case, inside the processor gate. So that would be looking at automation, looking at the application of artificial intelligence,

26:21looking at the application, digitization, to see where we can rootlessly, root out costs, where we can, and also, John, for us to be a competitive global mixed supplier, because that's where we play. We do not play in our own small five million, seven million island, or five million under a public. That's not what's gone to support, John, the 80,000 odd people across this island that are supported by dairy. You mentioned that there, and I want to come, I didn't come to it first, because I didn't want to, I didn't want to maybe spend too long and too much of the podcast on it, but that whole sustainability piece, load a lot of uncertainty there. You mentioned it with regard to derogation. There's a little bit more certainty there over the, over the coming years, I suppose, for farmers, which is, which is needed at commercial farm level, and obviously at industry level as well. Well, maybe where is the industry at with regards that sustainability pace in your own view? This is going to be a forever war on the Fred James, but I think there's always going to be challenges sustainability, and there's also

27:25going to be a whack more on element to it. So one minute, you're on greenhouse gases and mitigation there, and trying to roll out programs. The next thing, as we saw, water with the derogation and with nitrates came to the floor. Six months time, it could be animal welfare, it could be biodiversity, it could be food safety, it could be disease, it could be gluten, after coming to the island. So we're always, as an industry, going to be entertained for people like us who are kind of in the trade association, so in farmers themselves trying to mitigate it. So look, we're never going to go to a stage where we can all relax and focus on drop the juice and milk. I love to say that, but that's not the word we live in, James. But in terms of sustainability, per se, certainly, I think there's now a new recognition, both politically and public, about farmers' efforts, and particularly dairy farmers' efforts, of really stepping up to the curve. The air site, our SIE release report just showing

28:27that we were only 3% towards our heat pump targets, and only 11% towards our retrofitting targets. By Jesus, if agriculture had that kind of figure, when you have every ENGO environment, lobby group, and EPA jump on down and top your head, I think we've made huge strides in a sector of the Irish economy, which doesn't have the technological fixes, transport, and energy, and industry where I represent have. We can electrify in things like a farmer can't electrify a cow. So we've made huge progress, I think, in GHG mitigation, in water quality, even biodiversity. We're trying to do these national programs, and I know it's controversial at the moment with STS and Argent Green, despite recent controversy, I think has really, in my world, Roy, kind of deal that European and international level is the envy of many. Is it translating and sense for the leader, as we discussed? It's hard to say, but by Jesus,

29:29I wouldn't like to be in a world without death. I also see huge rock farming for water. I know we're involved with has been a resounding success. We got 50 million of EU money. That has now pretty much committed, because farmers have responded, I think we're up to nearly 6,000 applications, and we're working with Chagaskin, we're working with Lopro. Famers are stepping up, and what I find, I don't know what you're finding in Chagas, James. Famers see water better than that EU GHG, the sea biodiversity, the sea animal welfare element, GHG was always very difficult, because it was esoteric, it was hard to say, but farmers want their good clean water, farmers want healthy, happy animals, farmers want a bit of nature under Ireland has competitive advantage there, and the ceramic home. And you make a good point there, it's about recognizing progress today, it isn't it, and really doubling down on the technologies, the management practices,

30:32the programs that are there for farmers to help to really build on that success story so far. There's been a lot of conversation, Connor, over the last 12, 18 months around generational renewal. It's a major topic across the industry. How important is it for protecting Ireland's long-term growth supply, and I suppose what role does the wider industry play in support in that transition? The first thing I'm looking off of a farmer's son, but you don't have a farmer, you don't have an industry, so we're on an ease every day as an industry saying thank God for farmers. So if you don't have generation renewal, you don't have an industry, so we're actually symbiotic relationship for one to be better word. Also we have a heritage and a structure of co-ops thank God in Ireland and now you have a situation which is very unusual across Europe where 99% of the milk is now going through cooperative structures in terms of the primary side which is

31:34very, very welcome. So you have a situation where we have gone through loads of problems that we have solved a lot, but it is it is created and I use this phrase previously in the podcast policy and certainty. So if you're a young fellow or a young girl trying to come into the dairy industry and you see no long-term resolution to the nitrate's directive and you're expected to go push 50, 60,000 euro into a new salary storage or put robots into a milk parlor to help your lifestyle etc or whatever. You're going to be very slow to do that unless government and the EU give you that policy certainty sorry to use phraseology that is in our world here but I think your listeners will get it. So when we talk to Europe and we talk to government here this is what we say give the guy's certainty. Yes there are difficulties or ups and downs in the markets but dairy

32:34in particular is always delivered for families communities and farmers. It will also be remiss of me James to say that generation renewal does not just apply to the farming side of things whereas I often use the phrase dairy gold and Kerry are the Google and Pfizer of rural Ireland and I really believe that but it is also hard with the demonization of dairy and the demonization of agriculture unwarranted often now but there are some sometimes there's some home truths as well we have to acknowledge but there has been demonization. It's hard to get the non-dairy people, the engineers, the people in IT, the data scientists we know to get come to work in our industry and sometimes they get affected by the negativity that sometimes some of our own industry I engage with myself that we talk down our own industry and they go Jesus I won't take that job now with our tip. I might go down the road to to come in healthcare for farmers better so be careful about generation renewal

33:35not just on farm but also inside the factory case because if we are going to do and be successful on that journey in terms of value added we need the best of people in our co-ops in our businesses as well. I think that's a very very good point and positivity around it. The industry and the opportunities to forge a career within it let that be at commercial farm level are also in terms of within the wider industry. Looking ahead and we're going to finish here Connor because I've taken up a lot of your time but there's a lot of good stuff there for listeners but maybe is there an issue or even an opportunity maybe more importantly within the dairy industry that you feel maybe isn't getting enough attention at the moment but really should be part of the conversation. I think I've maybe covered this too but maybe I'll crystallize this last question. I don't think we have a dairy industry anymore. I think we have a nutrition industry. I think we need to have that attitude

34:39as our industry. We are now a nutrition industry rather than a dairy industry and that if we're going to be successful and able to compete internationally which we are doing I think we have to get into that mindset and that leads into all the previous elements of the conversation we had. So yes be very proud of your dairy industry but your dairy industry is the engine that drives now an international successful nutrition industry for our country and our farmers and our industry have to get into that mindset to get ourselves up the value chain. That is not to disparage our very successful cheddar industry our very successful milk powder industry very successful way industry which are all fundamental building blocks of that but I my challenge to myself and to our industry and to our farmers suppliers and to our government is we have a huge opportunity here to become the main and most respected nutrition industry provider on the

35:43planet through grass fed product and it means us we need a whole of sector, whole of farmer, whole of industry, whole of government proper strategic approach to achieve that and to wash away that rubbish we have been dealing with for for the last number of years about climate demonizing sunset industry and only minor part of the economy we have to absolutely turn the tables and that because that would fix an awful lot of the other stuff. So we have seen like if you get if you could pay your farmers enough so they will take the actions in terms of environment etc that will deliver if you pay your workers enough and farmers enough you will get rid of generation and issues brought out farm and in the factory gate and then if you respect your industry and your farmers enough they would deliver for the Irish economy in a big way and mitigate maybe our reliance on multinational actors and I will say for those of those of you who don't believe me

36:44just cast your mind back to tout thousands of days ten years before you started your podcast and when there was a bank collapse the government and weren't long coming back to dairy to get the Irish economy out of the hole and we delivered in spades for that and we had the island we have today because of the dairy industry got itself off with our oysters with orders and agri but that's now being forgotten about again so we have to tell that story very very strongly again James and my that's a good place to leave a corner and look at it I appreciate appreciate your time I think our listeners and very much about being positive going forward in terms of where the industry is and there's always challenges as as you alluded to but if there's one thing the dairy industry is good at it's it's taken on those challenges and and coming out with a with a positive story the other end so look at that's it for this week's episode of the dairy edge podcast my thanks to Connor Mulvihil for joining me on this week's show don't forget to raise

37:46review and subscribe to the podcast you can listen on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and for more information go to the chugas website at chugas.au I'm James Don and join us next time for your dairy edge