A bit of jiggery-pokery on the carpet makes a big difference

0:00This episode of Offer is sponsored by John Lewis Money. Life's better when you're flexible. Are you referring to your Pilates? I actually think you're quite right. I do do Pilates, but I try not to talk about it. I meant John Lewis Money Insurance. Flexible cover for your home and your car. Home insurance with three levels of cover. And comprehensive car insurance with two levels plus UK customer service. With five star de facto ratings on Golden Silver Home Insurance and Premier car insurance policies, search John Lewis Money Insurance to find out more. John Lewis Money Home Insurance and John Lewis Money car insurance are broken by John Lewis Finance Limited, which is authorized by the financial conduct authority. This podcast does not provide product recommendations or financial advice. Information correct as of 17th of August, 2026. This episode of Offer is brought to you by Cancer Research UK. September is childhood cancer awareness month. Thanks to research, children's cancer survival

1:00has doubled in the last 50 years. But too many young lives are still lost to cancer. And many who survive are left with lifelong effects from treatment. Cancer Research UK is determined to change this. For children like Tony, who is diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia last year, aged three, he joined a cancer research UK trial, testing whether more personalized treatment approaches can help more children survive and with fewer side effects. Cancer Research UK is the biggest charitable thunder of research into children's and young people's cancers in the UK and is driving forward the progress that young patients so urgently need. They support the very best science across the country and around the world to unlock discoveries about cancers in young people and translate these into new and better treatments. Tony is now one year into his three year treatment plan and is doing really well and excited to be starting school this month. Discover more about what Cancer Research UK is doing to help children and young people like Tony live longer, better lives at

2:03cruk.org slash children. This episode of Offer is brought to you by Coventry Building Society. Now we all know about saving for a rainy day, but what about your sunny days? I'll be talking 30 degree heat out of office on, drink in hand, those kind of sunny days. Well they sound lovely to me Jane, but I also mean those moments that make life truly memorable. Saving with Coventry Building Society is about more than just money. They believe there is more to life than setting money aside for the unexpected. They want us to save for the things that bring us joy too. The once in a lifetime trips, exciting adventures. Now you know I'm not that adventurous fee, but I do like the idea of a pot of money ready and waiting for when I finally decide to do something radical. So it's a feel good fund for the things that matter most to you. And saving with Coventry Building Society is super convenient with them. You can access and manage your account in a local branch over the phone online or using their app. Just search Coventry Building Society sunny days to see how your

3:06feel good fund could take flight. Teas and Seas and eligibility criteria apply. So we're on. Yes. It's such a shock to me. I had no idea we were doing a podcast. Let alone visualising it. Welcome. How are you? I'm very well. It's because we're in just such a home from home environment. I agree. Aren't we just? Yeah. Well we kind of are. It's lovely to have everybody listening in and watching in. So we're very grateful to you for putting up with the visualisation. If you're enjoying it, let us know. We'd love to hear from you on that. It's jadonfeettime.radio. And what is going on here? Well, this is knitted Nancy. So this is from the Greyhound Trust on the Isle of White. Do you remember? They very kindly sent in Brindle Nancy because they had done basically. I wanted to call it a tray bake. It wasn't a tray bake of Greyhounds.

4:06But they had made lots of these lovely little Greyhounds. They'd knitted them. And they were displayed on the Instagram. Somebody was holding a tray. And I saw Nancy in there. And rather boldly, I think I said, would it be possible to have one of those? The Greyhound Trust does marvellous work for the... What does it do? ..to Greyhounds. Well, I'm very glad you asked. Because there is an act of Parliament to protect retired Greyhounds. And in fact, you don't ever have a Greyhound yourself. You can't buy a Greyhound who has been retired from racing. The retired racers go to the Greyhound Trust and you adopt from the Greyhound Trust for life. So, oh, I see. Right. In all intents and purposes, you know, Nancy is very much belonging to us in our family. But I got her through a kennels that is affiliated to the Greyhound Trust as a really, really wonderful way of rehoming ex-racers. I cannot stand the Greyhound racing. Can I just... Sorry about that. ..for new joiners.

5:07Yeah. New joiners. Did Nancy ever race? Yes. She did. And she was hopeless at it. So, you can always find out your Greyhounds racing pedigree because they will have tattoos in their ears, which is their racing mark. So, they've all got a number. So, you can go back and find how your dog did. Nancy wasn't called Nancy. She was called, hey, Mar. I know. As in... ...Hy, New World, MA. Hey, Mar. Anyway. I hear that expression quite a lot. Yes. I wouldn't name a dog after. No, it's horrible. Yes, it's a bit weird. And she's not a hey, Mar. Hey, anything. No. So, she's definitely on Nancy. She started lots of races and then didn't finish them. And I love that. So, I think she got halfway round the track and just went, not a ball, it's not doing this. And went back and had a lie down, which is what she's immensely good at in the domestic environment. But she did stay in the kennels quite a long time because she's got a really exceptional gentle nature

6:07and she wetnest quite a lot of other litters. So, I think she really, really gave her herself that dog. Thank goodness she's had a long and happy retirement with you. Yes. Seriously. That's... She was also very glad to see us. She'd only recently been spayed when we got her and she was six years old. So, that's quite rare as well in the racing world. I know lots of people really enjoy watching Greyhound racing. I know lots of trainers and kennels probably look after the dogs incredibly well. But for me personally, I don't want to watch a sport where money is being made out of animals. I'm not a big fan of the horse racing either. And so many Greyhounds get injured in the races. And there has definitely been a feeling in the past in certain parts of Greyhound racing that there's a dispensability about the dogs. You know, there are thousands of them and they're not as expensive as race horses are. And lots of them on the bend going round,

7:07they race so tightly together, their legs get caught up and stuff like that. I just don't like it, chick. So, that's very long explanation of the dolls. Sorry about that. Just a one more quick question. How long did it take Nancy to get used to being called Nancy? Oh, well, she was called Nancy and the kennels. The kennels had renamed her. So she was Nancy when she came to us. And then when we looked up her numbers, we found out all of the other stuff from what she had been called. So yeah, I don't know who named her Nancy, but they got it spot on because she was definitely. It's a very nice name. I've always liked that. Yes. Well, no knitted Dora. Oh, yes, I know. What am I saying? We've got plenty of representations of Dora. How is Dora? I've got the Dora door stop. Still very much at home. In fact, Cara, I think Cara Lyme was the lady who made Dora that, no, that was anyway. Dora the door stop lives by my fireplace. She isn't actually big enough to hold open my huge doors at Garvey Tower. But it's difficult. It would be difficult.

8:08The double doors, the bedroom, all of that. They usually open by a butler. Yes. I mean, you will insist on having every single day off. So, sadly, I haven't seen him now for about 20 years. But yes, she's very proudly sitting by the fireplace. No, it's a reason. I'm struggling with the word fireplace. Is it a real fireplace? It is a fireplace. Do you have a real fire in there? No, I don't have a coal effect gas fire. Lovely. It is lovely. Is it a good effect? Well, in the sense that it looks a bit like a fake coal fire. Yes, absolutely. Do you know, the very thought of putting on anything like that? We were just saying, we've had the longest summer and living memory. And am I right? I was saying you wanted to carry on a little bit longer. Well, I like this temperature. So, London at the moment, it's about 24. 24. Yeah. So, this I find absolutely adorable. Yes. And I am hoping, I'm trying to look on the bright side of life here, because I think it has been a dirty that. A cataclysmic summer for so many people. And, you know, if this is our coldest summer of the future,

9:11then we have entered the fourth circle of hell. Okay. But in trying to look on the bright side, isn't there a possibility that actually all of this sunshine and the vitamin D that we have had might make us more well? Well, is that a word? Why? Is there any, are you just reaching into your medical bag to discuss this, to put this theory forward? No, since it's a clever, currently on the ward. Little, little nurse Nancy, I remember her from my Judy magazine. Please, I want to ask her for her ID. Oh, this is just a theory. Well, so you're saying we all have banked all that vitamin D. It's got to make us feel like it's not such a long horrendous winter. It's a good point, actually, just to mention that we have one of the Vantullican twins on the podcast this week. Zanned Vantullican has written a book about wellness and supplements. And I think people are going to find it very interesting. Oh, just, I cannot hear enough. I cannot hear enough deep on Wednesday. Yeah. Of the ridiculous assertions being made

10:15by so many people about the value of supplements at the moment. Well, it's not just that. It's this nutty, anti-aging stuff. And we did briefly reference that last week with the way to blankets and the endless. You see, how many times a night does that man have an erection? I got that. Well, I don't know. Presumably, that's the average. She can, I can't remember. We can probably, I think, publishes this data. That's not your feminism, unfortunately. So I'm sure we could find out, but I'm never going to. I don't want that on my Google set. Well, he's at the extreme end of all this, isn't he? I think it's Brian Johnson. It is, Brian Johnson. But it's also fair to say that people are making a fat wedge out of recommending all sorts of stuff. Yeah. And anyway, the good van Tullacan doctor, and he is a doctor, is debunking all that pretty successfully. So we'll find out. And he's got, it's quite a lot of big chapter on the menopause. And the sorts of stuff that women are now encouraged to chuck down their gullets, which, frankly, may be doing literally nothing of the job. Well, I think in that's the best it might do. In some cases, I'm sure it does harm.

11:17Exactly. And I'm very interested in the language, also, that's being used, because I've recently returned to Instagram, and I've had an absolute full force of that menopause or supplement stuff being shown to me. Endless people telling me what to do about my belly fat. Obviously, somewhere, I am front footing the world with belly fat. I didn't realise I was doing this. It's just literally the year that you were born. That's why they're pommeling me with belly fat. She's 57. She's got belly fat. Here we go. Anyway, endless supplements telling me how I can lose my belly fat. And it's not apparent. It's not what I'm eating or how much I'm exercising. It's cortisol. And then I can buy this special mug. We would buy something. Yeah, I can buy something. Okay, great. It's a combination of 30 herbs and minerals and supplements that's going to cure me. But the thing that interests me, because obviously I'm not going to buy that kind of shit, is the way that they word the recommendation. So a lot of the avatts now say things like trusted by 26,000 women.

12:21And you think that's not recommended. That's not it's been proven to work with. What does that mean? It's being used by... Well, I don't say that. Somebody... That's a clever question that 26,000 women have been asked. Do you trust this brand? Or what does this brand mean to you? They've managed to then throw back as trusted by 26,000 women. And I'll see you think, well, maybe they're not very nice women. Maybe I shouldn't trust these people. Maybe they're a bit... Maybe they're a bit gullible. They're a bit untrustworthy themselves. But you know what I mean? It's all... It's so written and code in order to make us believe. And it's snake oil. It was always snake oil and it always will be. Say, snake oil and you've just reminded me of a well-known politician. I just wanted to draw attention. I love this. No woman would have even attempted this as an excuse to try to weadle their way out of something that they are accused of. And everybody will know who I'm talking about. The British politician who is claiming that he simply wasn't listening in a meeting.

13:26And therefore he can't be accused of getting up to anything. And no one, I'm certainly. I mean, it's all alleged and it's denied and absolutely all above board. Nothing to see here, mate. I just didn't hear it. No, I didn't hear it, Jane. This is a chap who honestly believes that he might be fit to run the country. And I just wonder if he's chairing a cobra meeting. Will he be listening? Or will he actually have just dissolved in who are? I'd rather just focus on me. May oysters and mishampers. I won't focus. I mean, please, we don't need to mention his name, but please don't tell us you weren't listening. And that's the reason you're not guilty of anything. But the other two me are fair, I think. Because he is asking a lot of people to trust him with futures. He's too right. And yes, he decided that the people who had worked alongside him very loyal and trusted confidence and accomplices on his political journey suddenly turned into contractors. Yeah. Well, yes, I've been a contractor. I think I still am. Just wow. Wow. Get you.

14:27Can we bring in Ellie? We're the love. We're talking about health. Hi, both. I've got a favor. Can you please stop apologising for treating COVID a little seriously? It is more serious than a cold. Well, we're not apologising. And I think we, we, um, will we apologise for treating COVID seriously? I don't think, I mean, no, you've had it five times. Yes, neither of us want to do anything other than treat. No, that's, that's the point. So Ellie, I hear what you're saying. I get it. We shouldn't apologise for treating it seriously. Fees had it quite a few times and has suffered. I've only had it twice now. And I'm only just getting over it now. And I can still just about feel it somewhere in my system. And I was just saying to feel earlier, the underestimated, um, long tail of COVID is that you feel really depressed. And I'm not normally, I'm very much a glass as half full approach to life person. Just my own good fortune that that's my kind of chemistry, if you like. I did feel really low last week. And that's COVID. It makes you feel shit. You don't want it. We're going to get the jab as soon as it's available.

15:28So I think the COVID jab is available at the moment. I would exclude jab that won't be available until October. I'll get them both at the same time. Yeah. Because they're trying to do the roll out, aimed at vulnerable groups, which actually you were qualified for. Oh, very much. Yes, I would. And I've no shame in that. Yeah. Um, she does say, um, firstly, if I have any fever or razor throat, I always take a test. I do keep a few at home at all times for this very purpose. Yeah, Ellie, um, there's no shame in that either. I've got tests at home. If you have a vulnerable person in your family, that you should have the tests. I mean, also, if you've got it, you probably don't want to go on public transport in the first five or six days. Because why do you want to give it to anybody else? It's bloody awful. I do wish that we had allowed the pandemic to change our attitude towards the spread of germs, Jane. Well, it did for a while. Yeah, but it just strikes me as ridiculous that we immediately wanted to dispense with things like wearing masks and washing our hands

16:31and using hand sanitizer. You know, we're about to enter a season of flu and COVID. Again, I think New Zealand has had a very bad season. Hasn't it, of flu? Australia, not so bad. That's what we base our own predictions for this season. Yeah. And but you just look around on the tube of everyone already coughing and sneezing and, you know, wiping their hands on handrails and all that kind of stuff. And you just think we were doing something really sensible that prevented the spread of germs. Why aren't we carrying on doing that? Good sense. Just doesn't catch on. But what is it that's not contagious? Is it because we feel it's kind of making us weaker than we want to show that we are? Why wouldn't we be logical about it? Some people like to butcher up in the face of a virus, don't they? Well, good luck to them. You know, the more the worst of us. The wards were full of people who didn't expect to have COVID and many of them were butched up. And then they, you know, they didn't make it through. So I just find it bizarre. I'll probably be wearing my mask again on the tube

17:33by the middle of October, Jane. So who else have we got this week? We've got Zand Van Tullican talking about supplements. And we've got support Smith talking about a life and threads. I love threads. What is he a fission designer for gents? For gents? Well, it's interesting. You say that, Jane. I'm on form because in his memoir, he does talk about his foray into women's wear and it became successful, not as successful as the men's wear. He's very interesting about his reluctance to design for the female form. Oh, what does he say? What do you basically says that he himself likes the female form in an androgynous style? So he didn't really want to understand curves and the necessary tailoring around big bosoms and darts everywhere and larger hip ratios and that kind of stuff. And I thought it was a very interesting admission because the world of fashion has been dominated

18:33by the need for the women as models to be almost male in their body shape for a very long time. And that's often attributed to the massive success of some gay designers. So I thought it's interesting that Paul Smith can go on the page. Is he heterosexual or is he? He is heterosexual. Yeah, interestingly married to Pauline. What are the chances? What are the chances? What would be the male equivalent if you were going to find a... The man. Find a Jane. A Jane. What is the male equivalent? Well, Jane is... So it's the shenanade, it's shan. It's the same name means gift of God. What is the male equivalent? I don't know. I can't think of it. It's not James, is it? No. Well, we'll never know. Or at least none of us know. I tell you what, he is Claire, who says she's been a contestant on Mastermind. Oh, she might know. Yeah. It was filmed in the June of 2021 when my son was six months old.

19:35God, that was a bold, what a fantastically brave thing to do, Claire. At that point, we traveled to Belfast with my mom, who the production company also paid for. And I breastfed him in the room when everyone has to be filmed, listening to the rules being read out. Gosh, it's quite strict, isn't it? My specialist subject was... Best of Hardwick. And I came last overall. Oh, but I was very pleased. He was best of Hardwick. I was looking to you for... I'm going to say that Thomas Hardy character, but I'm not sure. No, not Thomas Hardy. I think Elizabethan, and of some relevance at the Elizabethan court. Claire says I came last overall, but I was very pleased with my score, considering I'd barely had a wink of sleep in the previous six months. Sitting in the Big Black chair was frankly a relaxing break. And Clive was lovely. That's Clive, Mary. Loved to the whole team. Great to have you all back together. Claire, thank you very much. It is lovely to be back, actually, with everybody in situ.

20:35And yes, I mean, just sitting in the chair and answering questions about Best of Hardwick. I mean, it makes a change. Yeah, it really would be a wonderful break. Whether or not you did regret that whether you had booked it before you had the baby, and it was one of those things where you thought, oh, I'll be fine to do that. Yeah. I mean, we all, we've all done that, haven't we? And in fact, I saw Kate Moss, the fantastic founder of the Women's E. I was the prize to take to myself. Yeah. A lovely function on Thursday night. And I chaired the Women's Prize for Fiction. The year that my daughter was born, my second child, I agreed to it when I only had one child. I had absolutely no idea what was coming around the corner. Because when you have more than one, you just have no downtime, do you at all? Because when you're just always juggling, it's, you know, it goes up by the power of, doesn't it? I think probably with every child you have. And I was just saying, if I'd actually known what was coming around the corner, I wouldn't have agreed to oversee the reading over. How, how, how, 20 bucks?

21:36How much? Right. Actually, we've had a new matter about a number of books that some have read, and I couldn't believe the number they claim to have. Oh, well, this is Melanie in Chitchester. Yeah. 82 books so far this year. I've never always this email. How? Well, that's more than one one, one, which two books a week, isn't it? Because we're barely into 37 or something now. Yes, it is a lot. How many books do you think you're on a year, including the ones that you read for? Oh, the ones I read for work, but then I don't include those really. Because it's a bit skim reading. It's called it speedy reading, darling. Okay. And speedy reading of nonfiction is much easier than speedy reading of fiction. Oh, I don't think you can speedy read fiction. You can't actually, can you? No. So I would say how many books? I would say I'm probably on the course of, probably on about 60 books a year. I'm outside of work. Oh, no, not outside of work. Including those. No, no, no. And if you work out the equation, and I know that gives you the collar wobbles, and you effectively turn into the human equivalent

22:36of a jellyfish, yes, no bones or brain at all. But let's imagine. Let's go forward to that. Let's imagine a morphous chain without the working work. How many books do you think that you would want? How many will I read in my Doteage? My real Doteage. Yeah. I think maybe, gosh, whilst I'm able, I would hope to read maybe one or four nights, realistically, proper, proper books. One or four times. I don't, because I don't, I don't want to rush through books. I love that's the thing, isn't it? And, and actually, I, I will look forward to a time when I'm not reading so much, because I miss that. I'll just read when I want to. And, you know, sometimes you're just really, really in the mood for reading. Like it just sinks way deeper into you than other times. And it's not always, you know, when you're on a sun lounger, and, you know, you imagine that you've created space for reading. Sometimes it's, it'll be in the strangest times and places, weren't it? And I miss that.

23:37Where? Where are these strange times in place? Well, I do remember, you know, just going back actually to when the, the kitties were tiny. I find it incredibly difficult to read fiction, actually, when the kids were tiny, because I just couldn't really remember the plots or characters or whatever. But I do remember occasionally, you know, there'd be a kind of half an hour when they were both having a, a nap, or actually, sometimes when I took them to active Adados, and you'd be surrounded by people, activities. Okay. And, you know, they'd be often whatever it was that they were doing. Yeah. And you'd be in a very noisy sports hall, and you could sneak a moment. Yes, but it was like deep reading. Shut off the rest of the world and deep read. So I'm with you. I actually thought that you'd say you'd read more, because you do, I always think of you as being a voracious reader. Well, do you know, I don't think I will. No. Hello. I'll have the housework as well. Yesterday, I attempted it a little bit. And also the pleasure part of Darling. Don't forget that. Well, we'll be open to this.

24:38A bit of DIY yesterday. I titivated some of my outdoor window frames. And I titivated. Well, they were comfortable. We got them breasts. We're just looking a little bit weathered. And so I got what I thought was the appropriate size brush. And just try, I got the right paint, you know, out exterior woodwork. Yeah. And just started with, well, this would be a piece of middle and quite relaxing just to buff up the window frames outside as the winter approaches. Because the front of your house. Very overall. Should have been. The front of your house does take a real battering, doesn't it? It does. From the element. And also, what are you saying about yourself if you don't keep your front of house? Really, really. Well, I certainly come from a long line of women who did polish their step and no shame in that, by the way. But I tell you what, it turns out that there's actually a bit more to it than I realised. Perhaps my paint wasn't the right size. Because quite a lot of paint ended up on the window. Oh, and that would be difficult to get off. I think it was quite difficult to get anyway. Look, it turns out professionals are available for this sort of thing. But I thought I'd have a go myself. And I probably paid the price. But never mind.

25:39Just a quick one from anonymous. Born and raised in Malvan in the 50s, 60s and early 70s. Just to keep Jane tittering. In the same vicinity as the road she mentioned, horny old. Don't forget Cockshot Road. With that set off childish giggles too, it doesn't have quite the same effect when you've grown up with these odd names. And they've just always been there. First message many years ago that I sent you was completely ignored. But if you'd like to revisit Jane Garvey's bottom gear, just let me know. Okay, thank you very much. Jane Garvey's bottom gear was a documentary I made for. Somebody else. From the previous about women and calves. I remember listening to that. Did you enjoy it? Just say yes. Move on. No, I thought it was one of your better documentaries. The Story Podcast brings you the best of the times and the Sunday Times journalism. With one story told in depth every day. I met a good contact of mine and I saw a document which indicated what was happening.

26:45Someone came up and pressed a note into my hand which I opened and said, dear friend, please tell the truth about what you see here. Join me, Manvina Rana. And me, Luke Jones, on The Story. Find us wherever you get your podcasts. Now, this is, this is incoming from Kate and Brighton who says very long time listener here with a quick note to recommend a TV show. I think for you will especially like. And perhaps Jane. Perhaps only that. Okay, right. Given that there's been a death of good TV lately. Well, I mean, that's all about to change isn't it? Kate says forget vigil. There is a show on the U app and the U app is free. No subscription required called dog park and apparently it's delightful with a very sweet charm. It's Australian with a dry humour and romantic undertones. Think similar to Colin from accounts. Perfect for an all-tumnal Sunday afternoon binge. Well, thank you very much indeed for that suggestion, Kate.

27:45I'm going to go and search for that tonight. In fact, Colin from accounts is also back is back tonight. I think it's at 10 o'clock. Well, I think it's available on the I player already. And Patrick Bramble, who is Colin from accounts. No, Colin, that's the dog. No, that's the dog. He's the bloke who takes on the dog. He is also in an Apple TV series coming your way, I think, at the end of next week called last scene. Slow horses is back in a couple of weeks time too. It's all happening again. And thank God for that, Jane. Yeah, well, I don't have Apple, so none of this affected me. But thank you for the morning. You'll be able to watch Colin from accounts. Well, I will be able to watch that. I mean, I have to be prepared for the conversation, so I won't be able to join in with at various gatherings where everybody else is talking about box sets they're watching. Yeah. Well, that's most of the conversation of the over 50s. I'm very disappointed to hear that you've given up with Vigil. Well, I'm afraid I don't know where, I think it's probably because I've done the DIY, but at 10 to 10 last night, I found myself completely disengaging from it and just going to fetch.

28:49So it is so complicated. It is. It's not just me. It's not just you. Okay. I cannot for the life of me keep going. And honestly, it's like playing table football. I just keep having to go back and forth in my head. But who to as to why the Russians wouldn't be collaborating with the Norwegians who aren't collaborating with the Chinese who don't want to have anything to do with the Russians and where the British people lie in the middle of all of that. It's just it's too knock about political football going on. And then there was this extraordinary scene when the two main characters who in in their real lives away from their detective duties, individual are a couple. Yes, and that's two children together. That does buffer me. I'm also I'm really puzzled by their childcare arrangements, which seem incredible. Well, it's well, they they one of them just said, oh, Granny's here. And that was all that was. We didn't see her though. They're doing a secret. Yeah, invisible granny. I mean, it's quite negligent.

29:50Not poor granny. I mean, she's just been left for a very long time while these two are cavorting around them. She's probably on a cruise somewhere and enjoying herself up the Danube and get so got you've got to go back because we both got to go on a secret mission to the op. They found themselves stuck in an impending doom laden snowstorm in the Norwegian tundra. And they had to seek shelter in an unheated satellite facility. And they were basically, you know, probably in a life threatening situation, being chased down by people with guns. And they decided at that moment to discuss their domestic arrangements. Well, I did it. I did I did. I did see that they'd had a ding dong. It didn't feel like the right time. It was the most unadvancing backdrops to a discussion about who was taking on the mental load in the house. Oh, well, that actually leads me to the. Yes, it should do. I thought, thank you, darling, the production that goes into this. Honestly, you wouldn't credit it. There is this article why more women carry the mental load on how couples can share it.

30:54Yes. And I was actually wondering because they are a gay couple at the centre of vigil. Yeah. And it just illustrates that the mental load is no easier in non-hedrosexual relationships. Well, it does seem to suggest that one person does one person leans into it, which allows the other person to lean out. So let us know whether you're in a heterosexual or a gay relationship. This mental load thing is it still a factor. There is no doubt. I mean, I'm in a slightly opposition because I've been a single parent for much longer than I was sharing parenting. And so I, you know, my ex-husband certainly plays a part in the lives of the children who are now in their 20s, I should say. But he wasn't at home for much of their childhood. So I just did it all. I did all the thinking, all the logistics, made all the arrangements, knew who their dentists were, all the, all everything that everybody does as a matter of, of course, went to parents evenings, booked in things.

31:57I'm not complaining, by the way. I did choose to be a parent and I enjoyed it for the most part. But was it a mental load? I'm asking myself, did it feel like a burden? Or was it just something I did? Do you think that you are the type of person who would easily have been able to put quite a lot of that stuff onto your partner to do and trust them to do it? Exactly. And not stand behind them going, have you done it? I don't think I would. Because I think that that does come into play here. And as soon as you say this, there are lots of people who go, don't, that's a terrible trope. And as soon as you say that, you're allowing people to, you know, get away with it, whatever. But I think it's natural in lots of parts of your life to feel uncomfortable about letting somebody else do it. Do the stuff. I think it's a really, this is the really gray and challenging area. Do some women make, make it all very territorial and make it all their work?

32:59And precisely because they don't. It's a bit like the idea of contraception. If a man could take a contraceptive pill, would you trust them? Would you trust them to take it? But there is no way that I would, would I have willingly given up that role? No, probably not. So that's what makes it complicated. It does make it complicated. But I do acknowledge that for lots of women, it's an absolute knacker to constantly have to be doing all the thinking, particularly if you're, let's say you are married to a man. And you have to remember his, I don't know, let's say his relatives birthdays. Is that up to you then to take that on board, to make that part of your job, to make sure his auntie gets a birthday card? I think the big challenge as well is when you want to reverse the roles. So if it has been easier for you to take on that burden when the kids are little and overwhelmingly in heterosexual relationships, it is the woman who does that.

34:03That's just born out by fact, isn't it? When the comes to time in your life, and if the comes to time in your life, where actually you just think, I'd like to change roles here. Has it been easy for you to do that? I'd be very interested in hearing those stories, because I think in countries where more equality has been achieved, and certainly in some of the Nordic countries where you have this huge shared parental leave that you can take between when your child is born, and I think when they go to secondary school, correct me if I'm wrong. So there are times when the mum will then say, kids may be aged five and seven, right, you do, you take your parental leave now, you do a year, here or six months, I'm going back to work. How does that then flip? Do you find it easy to just switch off the mental load? I would love to hear those stories. I bet you don't find it easy. Yeah, I can only imagine, but I imagine that you're probably sitting at work thinking, yeah, but it is exhausting, Jay. Oh yes, it is exhausting.

35:07To be, and also, I think if you find yourself in a position where you're slightly having to dance around somebody else's inability to see the position you're in, then that's double-exhausting. And by that, I mean, instead of wanting to end up having a row with somebody about how little is being done on the domestic field or how much is being done on the professional field, you're also the one who's just trying to kind of negotiate a better path through. I think that's going to be very time to, and I do know a lot of people in relationships who have been trying to do that as well. This BBC article, and I know it's featured on the Times.com as well. Thank goodness, Jay. Just to make that clear. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. Other ones would have to stop for a while. I'll say that this particular version of this story says that it's women feel the burden of noticing when the sheets and towels need to be washed. Do you think, okay, so could you reach a state way to think, I'm just not,

36:08I'm right, I'm just not going to do it. So how long could a towel stay in play? Well, what do you think? It's interesting, no, Jay, because we, I think we do end up sometimes doing that with our kids. And over a long stretch for summer holiday, I don't think I'm the only one who this morning, I just thought, just stuff, it's just going to work. Bye. And you just think somebody will notice eventually that they can't actually get up the stairs because there's just so much stuff that clearly needs to be taken somewhere and hasn't been. I just thought, no, I've got something else to do. You are in the mid, the student holidays do go on a hell of a long time doing September, Jay. Anyway, either if that university starts and, and another couple of weeks, it's sort of mid-November, isn't it? And then before you know it, they've stopped. How's it like that when we were at university? I, well, I don't think we finished as early. So I remember that my children's university seemed

37:11to finish about sort of late May. I've went back and looked at my diary and I was still at university in July. Yes, I think we just had August and we did. And a tiny bit of September. Yeah, yeah, just went great picking and then went back. I mean, I say that obviously didn't go great picking. What did you do? Nothing. Did you sign on? Yeah, okay. No condemnation here. No, well, I'm not, I'm not proud of it. Did you work? Yeah, I did work actually. I was having this conversation over the weekend. Do you know, I worked because I was nervous not too. So I just, I was never very good at the not doing anything at all thing dear. Well, that's where we differ. You see, because I have to be also just totally honest. I'm not proud of the fact that I didn't work. But I'm puzzled by why my parents didn't make me. I genuinely don't know how they let me get away with it. But it was the, it was I doing. It was a very accepted thing to sign on. But it doesn't make it right. I should have tried to do something. I'll go back and try and find out

38:15what I've got the diaries at least for one summer when I was a student. So I'll try and find out how I actually filled the time. Margaret says last night, Thursday, she went to Wimbledon theatre to see the Archers live at 75. I didn't see you, Jane was because I wasn't there. I was still getting over my virus. The theatre holds about 1,600 people and was almost full. That's good, isn't it? On my way home, I was walking down Wimbledon High Street with a huge crowd of Archers fans. Then I caught the tram to Croydon. Again, loads of Archers fans, a lot of whom were traveling on to Beckonham, I'm guessing. I just felt so safe. Perhaps this is the way forward to make the streets and public transport safe at night. More theatre and cinema for people of a certain age. Love the show says Margaret. Margaret, thank you very much. I'd like more from you actually. And what they did, would you mind Margaret emailing again and just telling us about, I mean, if he won't be interested, but that doesn't. I will be. I want to know what the Archers live at 75 was like. Let me know, please. But I'm glad you felt safe. I mean, of course you should feel safe.

39:19I think public transport last thing at night, and I do use it at night, perhaps not last thing at night. I haven't ever really felt unsafe, if I'm honest, but maybe I've just been very lucky. I don't know. Maybe I just don't notice. Yes, I think if you're a regular user, you probably do end up seeing quite a fair bit of... Oh, yeah, and I wouldn't. I don't doubt it happens. But I guess I just, I've said before, I just refuse to acknowledge that I want to be completely safe, living in the place I choose to live. And I simply walk the streets last thing at night because I live here and I feel it's my divine right to walk the streets and I will not be told I can't. Yeah, no, I know. I walk a different way home from the tube station at night to what I do during the day though. Do you? Yes, I do. And sometimes I think, why am I doing this? And more often than not, I think I'm just going to, I feel safer. So I'd take the longer main road. No, you're probably,

40:20yes, I need to be honest with everybody. I'm with myself. I probably do make, choose the choose the well lit path. Yeah. And that's just always going to be a fact, I think. Diffie and Jane, this email is entitled Adventures as Catnip for Middle-Age Men. Diffie and Jane, growing out of dressing up, you say, Cosplay, you say, now our correspondent went to her first Comic Con last year aged 51. My husband took our son for a long weekend in Budapest for his 21st birthday. And in an effort to add to him, I bought tickets to the big Comic Con in that their London. I asked my son what we were dressing up as, expecting to be the sidekick to whatever fandom icon he chose. No, Mummy, you have to do your own thing. How else will you make friends with his response? After years as an encouraging parent, I was hoisted by my own petard. I chose to dress as Princess from the 80s Cartoon Classic Battle of the Planets. Can you immediately

41:20untrap this image? Absolutely. Can't I'm afraid. Okay. My childhood heroine, I spent months on my costume foraging on Vintage for Boots and Address and begging my 80 year old Mum to help me with my cloak and learning how to take a standing knife to something called Eva Foam. Eva Foam? I don't know. To make the classics swan shaped helmet. I wasn't a nerd before, but I was when I got there. When we arrived at the Excel, it was with trepidation, not least because in the information booklet, it called on all attendees to kindly remember that polyester costumes and a busy conference hall are a sweating combination. Don't forget your deodorant. That's great. You just know that on the feedback form, nine out of ten Comic Con users had said everybody smells, please mention it. I hadn't even thought about that. I know. That's the room spray you don't want. This goes on. So our correspondent who's Elspeth, who's joining us from that. You look great. Yes. I don't know whether we'll be able to get this up as a shot. I very much

42:24hope you will. You've got these thigh length boots on a pink costume, what looks like a mopa helmet and a cape flowing behind you. But it did turn out that Elspeth was some kind of a catnip for middle-aged men. Everywhere I went, there was a background hum of, oh my god, battle of the planets. And I was asked for photos dozens of times, which is a strangely addictive dopamine hit. We understand that. No, we don't. The best thing by far was finally finding something that my boy and I could do together as we've got so few common interests. Now crafting our costumes and travelling to cons is our thing. Oh, well, that's fantastic. Yeah, that's great. And her suggestions are as follows. Jane, you'll desire to be a nipped, wasted heroine. Yeah. Along with your wonderful voice makes me think you could only ever be. I'm waiting. Jessica Rabbit. It's quite saucy Jessica Rabbit. She's not really me, is it?

43:28What was Jessica Rabbit's line? I'm not bad. I was just drawn this way. Yes. And she's very umpfy, isn't she? Yes, it's definitely not me. Yep. And I would make a wonderful elastigirl from the Incredibles. Oh, that I can imagine. I would happily be anything from the Incredibles. But what was the name of the show? Battle of the planets. Battle of the planets. Do we know which planets were battling? I don't know. Or who won? No, no idea. Let's welcome back, Glenn. We love Glenn. Last week's obituaries of Man About the House actor, Richard O'Sullivan, all mentioned that's and I did notice this, Klinn, that are all mentioned that since 2003 he'd been a resident of Bringsworth House, the Royal Variety Club's retirement home for aging lovies in Richmond upon Thames. Other residents over the years have included Thorahe, Mike Yahward, Hilda Baker, and Alan Fluff Freeman. Now there's a fly on the wall, docu-so-byd, pay good money to watch, 100%. It got me thinking that with Richard O'Sullivan's death, there must now be a room available on Bringsworth House. It's never too early to plan ahead on fee. You're in the process of

44:30setting your home and presumably looking for new accommodation, steady on Glenn. She's a spring chicken. Or Jane, you're always banging on about the over 60s travel parts. Would that get you from Richmond to Thames Towers? Actually, it would after nine o'clock. Better still, think about those adjoining rooms. Imagine the anecdotage, and I like to think that there's a pretend radio studio there set up originally for Fluff Freeman, where the two of you could see out your days jockeying the discs, crashing the pips, and interviewing the other residents oblivious to the fact that it's not a transmitter in sight. It wouldn't stop us, Glenn. It really wouldn't. Because that's how I started with Radio Garvey in my bedroom. So, I mean, I'd be right back to where I started. Yeah, I wouldn't want to imagine that my third age would be spent trying to get a word in Edgeways as you broadcast non-stop Garvey FM from the cupboard. It's Radio Garvey, actually, not Garvey FM. Get it right. Well, I don't think we're not really allowed to call

45:30anything radio anymore. I know. We're all, you're all, you're all, you're all, you're Garvey. Oh, by the way, that reminds me. If you have a spare afternoon, and who has? Who has? But if you have, don't forget, our Times Radio show is now on YouTube. And you can just watch us, I mean, my case, watch us, watch me wrestling with my earpiece, which constantly falls out. And watch me looking quite uncomfortable. But anyway, that there it is. It's all it. We're getting a bit more used to it, aren't we? I think so. And it's, it's you, do you do? Do you do what I like? I like it. I like it. I like it. I do like it too. I like it way more than I thought I was going to like it. I think the lighting is fantastic. No, no, that sounds like such a boring thing to say. But with me, keep up at the back. The lighting, you and I have both found very, very difficult. So in your face. So the last four years, it was these really, really, really bright spotlights. And I did think last week, actually, that I am exponentially enjoying doing the show more

46:32than I used to just because of the lighting. I mean, who knew that it could be such an affecting thing. But also the way that the studio is designed. So the bookshelves have got lots of objard and books on them. And actually, some people would call it clutter. Clutter. Yeah. If you're slightly bored at some points during any of our show and, you know, not every item is of huge interest to every person. But instead, on the triple lock is never, never not interesting. You can just find yourself in wondering, who's book is that? What is that thing? Why if they got something from the 1930s in a modern studio? We don't really know. No, but I think we could also have a little bit of fun with that, can we? A little bit of fun. That's very much us. Well, we could stop popping some things on the shelves and see if people notice. That's been suggested. Liz is in Kent and just wanted to contribute after hearing our discussion about boarding schools. She's a matron at a large international, very expensive boarding school in the UK. Prior to undertaking the role, I would have

47:34concurred with your view of them at boarding schools as emotionally cold and rather oppressive places. And I'm sure it isn't always a great time for all students. However, for many girls, the house provides a home from home. We have a range of students from the very wealthy, wealthy to those on full-burceries. And no distinction is drawn. It is truly international and a global place where everybody finds their tribe and place. Please to say that my role values emotional health alongside the physical and we work very hard to provide the pastoral care the students really need to truly thrive. Also, please be reassured the days of manky bedding and thin pillows are over. Students bring their own bedding and can also bring their own mattress topper. Wow, imagine traveling with a mattress topper. Well, I don't think they do because in the next paragraph, our matron details how full her study becomes over the summer holidays with John Lewis sending deliveries. Over the summer months, my office resembles John Lewis bedding department with new deliveries.

48:36Thank you. I did need to mention that. As someone who didn't have close parental bonds, I think I'd have loved this environment and the ethos of the boarding house. It's not Harry Potter. It is a warm and nurturing place. I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure loads and those boarding schools are and I'm sure that all of the staff in boarding schools work incredibly hard to make it a pleasant experience for the girls and boys in there. I think all we were saying is that as a choice, it wasn't a choice that either of us made. Well, I didn't have to make it for our kids. I wouldn't have made it for mine. But as I said in the kind of discussion that we had about it, I just had such a weird experience being a day girl in a boarding school. So I don't think I don't, you know, obviously, I didn't get to enjoy all of the benefits of that camaraderie and shared experience. And I just had a completely kind of separate life going on at home. It was just very odd, actually. No, not, you know, I don't spend hours and hours

49:39thinking about it, but it's just a bit weird. Yes. Well, I'll take your work, Rick. I really will. Well, we've got lots to look forward to during the course of this week, not least our guests, Van Tullican, Paul Smith, Sir Paul Smith, Sir Paul Smith, Sir Paul Smith and on tomorrow's podcast, we'll have news of a celebrity encounter enjoyed by one of our production staff. We don't want to mention her name because she gets far too much publicity, but she has had, well, I think a very positive celebrity encounter over the weekend. Very much so. And it is now the screen saver on her phone. Yeah. She's a bold move. A very bold move. But one is an absolute talking point. If you could have a picture of you and somebody on the front of my screen saver. Yep. Gosh, who would it be? Who would it be? Well, go on at the moment. Who would it be? I can't, it would have to be a leading sports figure. Somebody who I'm aping. But the name hasn't, I will say at the moment, I'm not able to get to Pilates for various logistical reasons.

50:42And this morning, the Maze Your Function, it, well, I was reduced to trying to do a bit on the carpet in my bedroom before I came to work. So I'm not at my physical best at the moment. But I tell you what, when you can't get to Pilates. So what has this got to do with the screen saver? No, I'm just a view in a photograph of the famous person. I just couldn't think of a famous person. So I'm just be andering just to say, when you can't get to it, your body starts to miss it. So I will say that the little jiggery pokery I did this morning on the carpet has made a small improvement to my general discomfort. The old small of the back is really feeling it at the moment. Okay. Yeah. Maybe that's a post-COVID thing as well. Right. I didn't answer your question, because I can't give you one. I kind of wish we'd ended up three minutes ago. Anyway, I don't feel like that. It's good. Let, Luke, you come up with a celebrity. Come on. I can't. Yeah. I'm just going to, I'm going to say this to make Margaret Cable and Smith laugh. Come on. A photograph of me and Frank Dobson. I'm leaving it at that. Oh, that reminds me.

51:45I'm interviewing Leap and Luminary. I'm leaving it at that. Shush. Just stop. Stop. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another offer with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, two till four on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Offer is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.

52:57The Story Podcast brings you the best of the Times and the Sunday Times journalism with one story told in depth every day. I met a good contact of mine and I saw a document which indicated what was happening. Someone came up and pressed a note into my hand which I opened and said dear friend, please tell the truth about what you see here. Join me, Manvina Rona and me, Luke Jones, on The Story. Find us wherever you get your podcasts.