A.A. Reaching Anyone, Anywhere [Season 2, Episode 3]

0:00The views and opinions expressed during this podcast are those of our guests. No one person speaks for AA as a whole. In Alcoholics Anonymous, we often hear the phrase going to any lengths. We're talking about doing whatever it takes to stay sober and carrying the AA message to those that may need it by any means necessary. With today's technology, there are many means available, but beyond the traditional online spaces and the meeting rooms, AA's have been going to any lengths to reach people wherever they are, however they can be reached. Because carrying the AA message doesn't belong to buildings, platforms, or rooms, it belongs to people. My name is Nathan. I'm an alcoholic. Welcome to GSO. From hauling literature through the Canadian wilderness to remote communities, over AM radio waves in the South Pacific and cassette tape exchanges,

1:00the ways in which the AA message has been carried seems endless. In this episode, we'll be exploring three examples of going to any lengths. The first comes from the 2025 International Convention in Vancouver, BC, Canada. This is Roger L. speaking at a loner's internationalist panel. I'll let him tell you more about it. Good afternoon. I'm Roger, grateful alcoholic. One of my AA heroes is Captain Jack, who's, he's credited with starting the loner's internationalist meeting. And you can read about him and A comes of age. There's a service piece about the history of the loner's internationalist. I think it's SMF123. But I've also heard Captain Jack share about the loner's internationalist. And one of the talks that I heard was Captain Jack on this stage, the International Convention in Denver, Colorado in 1975. And what he said was on October the 20th, 1947, he went to Bill's office near Lexington,

2:02Avenue, Bill Wilson, with orders to the far east. He had been unemployable and drunk. But this was his first going back to sea. He was nervous. He was looking for advice. And he said, Bill's advice was that if you're sober, Jack, you can go anywhere, and you can do anything in the world and stay sober. And his second bit of advice is that letters might help. And so, with 15 months of sobriety, Captain Jack, a merchant marine, went out to sea to be the captain of a vessel. And had his first sober adventure. He took some big books. His wife sent him copies of the A grapevine magazine whenever male could catch up. So the office, the GSO, that service piece, credits Captain Jack as the founder of loner's internationalist. And this talk, Jack said, it was the staff who started it. He said, and I quote, if it hadn't been for the GSO, this group of internationalists would have died a morning, I feel sure of that. I tried to carry it on for four years, and then I yelled

3:08for help. And they, the office staff at the time, came to my rescue. And as you now know, a round robin is sent out by monthly to about 500. And that round robin is involved, the newsletter that Bill talked about, that we write in, and then they put it together, and they send it out. What does that got to do with me? I got sober at a young enough age with not much criminal records, so I was able to join the army and still be qualified. I was struggling, and I decided to do that to get in, get the GI Bill, get out, do something with my life, and my state for 30 years instead. So within less than two years of that decision to join the military, we found ourselves going to the desert storm. I was pretty nervous, and I wrote a letter to the general service office, and asked him to just, you know, I don't know, send me the grapevine, right?

4:08I'm going to this place. I don't know. I don't know how it's going to be. I'm scared. I've never been without AA before, and it's an unknown period of time. All these unknowns, and I said off on the long flight overseas, sober and with some hope. So we got there. We went to a large tent city in Daharan, and I didn't know what to do. There was a bulletin board outside the mess hall. And I couldn't find any alcoholics. I didn't know anybody there. There were a lot of different units there, though. So there were a lot of people I didn't know, and maybe perhaps there'd be another alcoholic. So I went, and I used this bulletin board, and I put up a little three by five card that says, friends of Bill W. Meet here every night at $1900. Whatever was going on, I stood in front of that bulletin board with my big book, carried in a way that you would recognize it as a big book, if you knew what the heck a big book was, in front of that bulletin board with that. Just in case you were looking for the guy, you would know this was the guy that put the note up. And I did that

5:10every single night, and nobody came. But I did it consistently. I showed up, so I just stayed there, and I did that. So we moved forward. I got promoted to sergeant. So now I'm a leader, and now I don't have any AA, and I've been away from AA for a really long time. I did an inventory, and I shared it with a chaplain, but I got to tell you that it was, it was useful, but it was not the same as the feedback that you get from another alcoholic when you share your defects, and they can, they can share their experience back to you. Reached a point where I thought drinking would help. Like I was so desperate, and so lonely, I'm a leader, I can't be intimate with anybody. I can't share. But here I am. I can't find another alcoholic. I had the desire to drink was back. I wanted relief from that loneliness and pain and being all by myself, and I needed program and fellowship, and I didn't have fellowship. I just wanted relief. I got to that low, desperate, crying myself to sleep on my cot and attend as a leader who couldn't

6:16cry in front of other people, but just desperate. And then what happened was really nothing short of a miracle. That letter that I wrote the GSO got to, whatever desk was in charge of this program, the loners and internationalists at the time, and I got on a mailing list. And what I started to get was trickled in mail. I got a letter from a group in California that I'd never been to, that had passed a card around, and everybody signed it and sent it to us, to me, in this case, and it had other names, and we're thinking of you, and we love you, and we're praying for you. And then I would get another one, and I would get a letter, and I would get speaker tapes. I would get little care packages with little yellow ribbons and speaker tapes, and AA literature, and at home, in a shoe box, I today have a handwritten Xerox copy, a photocopy of 150 names and addresses of people, almost all of which I had never

7:21met in my life, who wrote me and got me through that. And at one point in one day, I got 34 pieces of mail from Alcoholics Anonymous that I'd never met. Never met. Now, when you're pitching mail, and you're picking up the mail, and your peers ask you, what the heck is going on with you? I don't know an anonymous way to explain it to them, so I said, well, I have a fan club. It's fan mail, and they didn't believe me, but I didn't know what else to say. I'm like, you know, well, I'm a member of this Worldwide Fellowship, and we get together, and we feel stadiums sometimes. I just didn't know, but it was beautiful. It was so, it's exactly what I needed at that dark, lonely moment. I'm so grateful for that kind of experience. So, fast forward, we returned safely,

8:24and I continued my military career, and I went to Belgium, and the world changed. So, at this point, we're using Skype. We got solid communications. I can call my sponsor, and the call won't drop, like it's actually going to work. I've got email, immediate access. I was able to stay connected in fellowship, but I'm not saying that this particular program still has value. There are still loners out there. When you're in Belgium, and only English-speaking group you have, and you don't speak French, is 100 miles away, we became an intimate group. We loved each other. All that stuff that your group complains about, it was a pretty dysfunctional group. But it was the best home group I've ever had in my life. When somebody was dying, and they weren't able to get back to the United States, somebody in the group said, you can come hospice at my house, and we're going to

9:24love you until we're gone. And every day we'd go over to our house. All this lady's hand, not knowing if this meeting is going to be the last meeting, right? So, it was a beautiful group, and so those kind of things. But what happened was with technology, there was a different loner experience. I got the one face-to-face meeting while I was there, but the whole time I was connected through technology. But I never forgot this loner experience, and I'm so forever grateful for the general service, our general service office that provides this service, the meeting guide, and a bunch of other services that we sometimes can take for granted. They're there for us, and they continue to put this round robin thing together, because Captain Jack needed to stay sober at sea in 1946. So, thank you for listening, and I'm so grateful. Over the years, Lim has evolved since Roger was receiving those letters, but the loner's internationalist's meeting is still going strong, and for more information, email access at AA.org.

10:32For more information about AA, please visit our website at AA.org. Our next segment is a dramatization of an article from GSO's Free Quarterly Newsletter, Box 459, from Autumn of 1992, where we meet members from the Amateur Radio or HAM Radio Fellowship. HAM is, of course, spelled with two A's. H-A-A-M Radio, established in 1953, is an international fellowship of alcoholics and anonymous members who also hold amateur radio licenses. These HAMs extend warmth and friendship to their members who have difficulty attending regular meetings. AA, shortwave listeners also are invited to participate. The call letters belong to Henry K, who maintains an up to date list of approximately 250 HAMs around the U.S. and Canada. In the interest of anonymity, the regular meetings are called

11:41Friends of Bill W. Moreover, they're more like informal get-togethers than meetings. I went to a meeting last night and the subject was gratitude. It made me realize how good life is. Then someone else might share news about a new member or about an old one who hasn't been heard from in a while. Remembering to preserve the anonymity of individual members is hardly a problem since the HAMs know each other mainly by their call letters. Ask them about AA friends with whom they've networked for years and chances are they'll speak of them affectionately as If you want first names, they frequently have to refer to their listing, AA Old Timer Ben L, of Klamath Falls organ is an old HAM radio hand as well. Because there's great camaraderie among

12:46these people, it was natural that AA members who were also licensed HAMs would get together. The first attempt to make contact, I believe, was initiated by an operator named Lou of Seaford Delaware. In a letter that appeared in the June 1953 issue of the AA Great Vine, Lou wrote, I have a small homemade transmitter that costs about $20. I have spent that much plenty of times for whiskey and have contacted the fellow's 500 miles away. I will answer all letters and help, however I can. A year later in May 1954, the Great Vine carried a one-paragraph call for the signals of amateur radio operators who would like to contact each other via the airwaves. And in June 1967, it carried an article, message by Morse, signed a non, but written by Ben. I had started a HAM radio net in 1964 using Morse code recovery signals aboard ship because I was seagulling at the time and needed to keep in touch with AA's over great distances

13:47from the Indian Ocean, for instance. We had a great little net going for many years, but as the old timers died, it gradually faded. Today, there are only two of us using Morse code, Jim D. of Taneytown, Maryland, and I use it about three times a week when we have our one-on-one get-togethers. One of the few women on Henry K's Hamlist is Lee H. KB6MXH. Of Sunnyvale, California. There is a Marianne listed for Pennsylvania and Assagna for New York, but I've yet to make contact with either of them. Sober and AA for 19 years, Lee became involved in HAM in the mid-80s. Joining in our friends of BuildW meetings is like holding hands across the country and it feels really good. Sometimes a strange voice will ask, who's BuildW? We'll usually explain that the name refers to a 12-step program. Though occasionally someone will kid. BuildW? He's George Washington's brother. Amateur radio is the only hobby regulated by international treaty. Amateur bands agreed

14:50upon by most nations are sandwiched in among the short-wave frequencies assigned to ships, aircraft, international broadcast stations, the armed forces, police and others. To operate an amateur station in the U.S. and Canada, a license is needed. Beginners are granted a novice license upon completing a test that most HAM find relatively easy and they can work their way on up to extra class, which confers some special frequency privileges. The coordinator, at the time of the article of the active California HAM net, was Robert B. Okay, J6IL of Santa Barbara. In helping alcoholics, we check into our meetings. I find that I help myself most of all. Although non-AAs can and do wonder into our meetings, we do not violate the traditions. We are amateurs all and we're not out to proselytize or promote AA in any way. I'm in touch with AA's all over the world and I have made some wonderful friends like WillFem.

15:53GY2AA of Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, Canada. WillFem identify himself as always alcoholic. As often happens, the two HAMs decided to become more than each other's disembodied voice. They met when Robert flew up to Prince Edward Island. The HAM experience has a ripple effect. I've been involved for about 23 years and I've enjoyed every moment. We have a saying here that if you make an AA contact today, chances are, you won't drink today or get into trouble. In my case, that's proved very true. Hank K. of Tarpen Springs, Florida. In 4-0 EXO. Concerns. This is another form of 12 stepping and it provides a solid support system. HAMs carry AA's language of the heart to the nth degree because we use a language that the untrained listener cannot understand. Hank's referring to radio codes like 10-4 over and out. That stand for various slogans, some that are specific to the AA community. For example, someone's not going so mean.

16:54I might toss in the concerns 0-2-8. A banana that gets away from the bunch usually gets peeled. Or 2-2-9. You might be the only big book that some poor alcoholic will ever read. Then let's say I'm signing off. I send you my 73. Going now. My 88. Loving kisses to your lady. And for good measure, a 24. Stay sober a day at a time. It's fun, it works, and there's always room at the round table for one more. To find a meeting near you or a meeting online, download the meeting guide app on your mobile device. And for our final segment, I sat down with GSO staff member Diana L for as far as we know, the most technologically advanced length being gone to to carry the AA message. Hi, Diana. Hi. Thank you for joining us today. Diana, you're currently the GSO staff member on the regional forums desk. But we are not here

17:55to talk about that today. We want to hear about your experience attending an AA meeting that is in virtual reality. You put on VR goggles and attended this meeting live online with other members in a three-dimensional virtual space. Is that an accurate rundown? Yeah, it is. You know, I've been sober thanks to AA for 43 years. Got sober very young. And I've pretty much for many years have gone to only in-person meetings. So it was the first time I've ever encountered an AA meeting like that. It was wonderful. Can you walk us through how you heard about this meeting and how you were able to attend? I think it was through the accessibility desk. A member was from the VR space, was reached out to the office and said, hey, you know, I'd love to offer anyone who's interested to experience what it's like to come to a meeting in VR space.

18:59And I jumped at the chance. I love the idea of experiencing new things in sobriety. I love going to the fringes alcoholics on minutes to see how the hand of AA is there. This was an amazing experience. There was a little bit of a training session where I had to get the the head goggles I met with this person. They walked me through how to just enter the world of VR. It was my first time ever being in the VR space. But once I got into it, it was like getting off of a bus stop and walking to my first meeting when I did when I was 15. Okay, so then that's what I want to know next. Like, okay, you're at the meeting. What was it like? What do you see? What did you hear? How did it start for you? Well, it's just a meeting space and you walk in a meeting as a greeter. Was the greeter an avatar? Was it a virtual person? We all are avatars. So that's

20:06who I'm walking with my avatar. I only see people in VR space with my avatar. Right. And they see you as your avatar. They're using them as their avatars. Correct. I showed up to the meeting. The greeter is in their avatar. We shake hands. In my orientation, I learned basic motions. Hi, thumbs up. What does that mean? Hand shake, you know, I'm sure you got to be able to raise your hand. Yeah, you do. I mean, some meetings, I think, call on you. But yeah, you do have to learn to raise your hands. There's a thumbs up. That's something you use similar to when you're nodding your head in identification. It's accomplishing the basic needs of getting yourself to the meeting, sitting down, holding something to read. Like if you're asked to read some kind of reading at the meeting, like a portion of chapter five or the preamble,

21:11I know that one of the new meetings that was created recently is a big book study. What does the room look like? Well, my particular meeting that I have going to is outside around a campfire. It's very lovely outdoor space. It's not a vast forest. It's like a nice little urban park space. You know, there's some trees. There's a little creek. There's like a campfire. There's logs around. So you're sitting on a log or you can stand up around the campfire and that's where the meeting that I go to. That sounds like a nice place to have a meeting. I suppose in the virtual reality world, you could have a meeting anywhere. You could be in space. You could be on the top of a building. You could be underwater. Well, that's very interesting. There are business meetings. So maybe somebody has brought up the idea of having other meetings in other locations. You know, the thing about VR space, which I think is a little unique,

22:16somebody has to take the time to create this space, programming, you know, setting it up, creating the space, literally, back to what you said, oh, let's have a meeting out and out of space. Well, they'd have to build that world. Diana, do you see any benefits for attending a meeting in virtual space as opposed to IRL? So in live space, you know, people talking over the person talking or walking in front of you, that's a distraction. In video conferencing, it could be people doing a bunch of stuff while they're listening, like walking, running, exercising, etc. excessive chatting on the side. That's a distraction. In VR space, it's really more like the in-person experience. And we are limited by our physical avatars. So you're focused on the meeting. Yeah, it seems like the virtual setting could be really beneficial as far as focus is concerned.

23:21Sure, you've seen a lot of things change over the years. It seems that recently, technology has come into the AA space in a pretty fast way. Online meetings and a video sharing platform like how we're talking right now has grown in popularity a whole bunch in the past few years. Well, virtual reality meetings seem to be relatively new, but a growing aspect of AA. Do you have any thoughts about all this change that's been going on in the most recent years as far as technology is concerned? I mean, there are other ways, as you know, to access AA meetings. I've gone to meetings on the phone, of course, before computers were a common thing to have. And bulletin boards chat. And of course, now we do a lot through computers. So VR space to me is just the next right step because because we can, you know, AA members are creating places for people to access recovery. In fact, the meeting, one of the things I love about that meeting that

24:26I've gone to is I met people who have shared their stories and they have gotten sober in VR space. Wow, that's great to hear. We often assume that younger people are more open to changes in technology, but here you are, 43 years sober, attending a virtual reality meeting. What's been your experience with changes in AA over the years and how other members react to them? That's an interesting question. I think it's more about the person. I met so many people who are much older than me, who are seekers. There are some A's that are, you know what, they're going to stay in their group. I think it's really a matter of the person and being open. There's some people I've met who are God in their 80s and 90s who attend the VR space and they love it. So the realm of the spirit is broad and inclusive. That's our fellow travelers. So we're just, I think VR space

25:28is just another place to meet them. If you're carrying the message of AA in a unique way, we'd love to hear from you. Please email publicinfo at AA.org. For more information on GSO and the organization of Alcoholics Anonymous, you can listen to this podcast our primary purpose. So if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe so you can keep coming back. Thank you for listening to our primary purpose, a podcast produced by the General Service Office on behalf of the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous in the US and Canada. Thank you for listening to our primary purpose, a podcast produced by the General Service of Alcoholics Anonymous in the US and Canada.