972: Small Space Urban Gardening with Enoch Graham

0:00Greetings, urban farmers, gardeners and healthy food visionaries. Farmers Greg here and welcome to the 970 second episode of the urban farm podcast where every day we work together to educate and inspire you to become part of your food revolution. Today on our podcast we have someone who inspires passion and growers. We're talking with Enic Graham about small space urban gardening. Enic is the host of the weekend gardening talk show. Let's get growing. He has interviewed hundreds of the world's top gardening communicators and shares his small space gardening practices on his YouTube channel the Urban Gardener. He has been growing his urban food garden for 15 years in southern Oregon's Rogue Valley utilizing many different spaces from a cemented back patio and to a carport rooftop to grow peppers. He has learned a lot over the years and truly loves sharing his experience with other passionate

1:01growers in the gardening community. Enic you joined us for episode 748 and 809 welcome back to the show are you ready to rock? All right all right let's get growing. I love it so let's start by talking about your nine keys to small space gardening. Well with gardening there's many different aspects to it in all different types of spaces and things that people grow in and especially small urban spaces. There's a lot to talk about but these nine I think should give everybody a really great start and and really where else do we start when it comes to growing plants in any type of garden space other than water. So with water you know just like humans plants are the same we need water more than anything else you know we need nutrients and all the food and all the different things as well but water is key and most important when it comes down

2:05to all of our different gardening spaces so you're going to want to find a sufficient water source nearby and you know as most homeowners or people who live in homes and all of that they've got a water spigot right there on the side of the house it's kind of usually pretty easy to access water but that could be different for a lot of different types of spaces people have in cities and urban spaces maybe you live in an apartment complex or something like that so you're going to want to be able to find your source of water get access to that maybe you're going to have to get a longer hose or something to reach a space that you might you might need to get to or something like that but you're definitely going to want to source water nearby make sure you've got a good source of water maybe other aspects to might be things like getting some sort of rain barrels and things like that as well yeah I always like to encourage people to think outside of the rain gutter when you're thinking about water

3:06because there is rain there is tap water there's gray water which is second use of a lot of water goes down your drains there's condensation water there's stormwater runoff that's running by on the road so I always love to share with people think outside of the box on where your water comes from because there's lots of other opportunities there yeah yeah if you especially as you mentioned there too if you can find ways of capturing water especially in places where you might not be getting very much of it throughout the year that kind of is my case here in southern Oregon can be wet through a good part of the winter season and all that but when it gets into summer and things dry up real quick so maybe I'm wanting to capture up as much of that water as I can but it's a key thing the next thing with water though too that I think is really important when we're thinking about our small space urban garden is kind of how we're getting that water to our plants and that sort of thing I'm a big fan of hand watering I

4:10like to have that one-on-one connection with my plants on it on as much of a regular basis as possible so I can see how things are growing and growing so I really like hand watering but I also like to take a vacation every now and then or I like to get out of town and especially during the summer time you know when it's nice out you want to go and do some things so other than having a really nice friendly neighbor or family members going to come by and take on that task for you of hand watering you might want to be thinking about a drip system the good drip system especially with container gardens and that sort of thing that can bring water to each of your individual plants is really kind of a key when it comes to delivering water to plants when you're not going to be there are available to do that because especially in small urban space gardens water is really important you don't want things dry and out and you do want to kind of take some time away sometimes as well too and then the

5:11timers and you know important part of that would be timers as well too you want to get something to turn those on and off when you need them too so there's lots of different really great water timers and systems out there to set up for some good drip systems and again too you can use a basic sprinkler and some other you know other types of garden spaces but yeah really important to do and make sure that your water and your plants properly and consistently yeah and every March through the urban farm we give a drip tape class drip tape is is a different kind of drip irrigation yeah it's absolutely my favorite and it works really well and it lasts a long time so be on the look out for our drip tape class that we give every March yeah actually and it's a good point to the is that with drip systems or anything like that there's something you got there's a lot that kind of goes with them in a way you got to keep an eye on them you got to watch out for emitters and all this sort of

6:12stuff with containers it's really kind of the way to get all of that but those drip systems are great oh yeah yes but the what I found the difference between drip tape and drip irrigation they're two different things and the drip tape doesn't have the same problems as drip irrigation it's really magical yeah yeah exactly that's what I'm saying is that if you got this type of situation or space where you can utilize a drip tape versus a drip emitters I would definitely go that route for sure but when you're dealing with containers and things like that you got to kind of go with it and take care of it as needed so Enic what's next well after you've got all your water considered the next thing your plants are gonna really want has some good sunlight I mean the sun is real important to our garden in our garden spaces we want to be considerate of walls buildings fences in our cities urban spaces this is

7:15can be a big challenge especially if you live around taller buildings or big tall fences and things that can really create a lot of shade situations for your garden so you want to really take a good survey of your space make sure you that you're understanding where the sun is coming in how the shade is changing throughout the day and in some cases if you're not able to get very much sun in certain spaces which can be a lot of the case for a lot of people growing in city situations you'll want to really be looking towards shade tolerant varieties that grow in those types of shade situations you'll find a lot of those in city spaces especially like it's around buildings and things oh yeah for sure and planting on the in the northern hemisphere a on the north side of a building you're gonna get like zero to two percent light so just be conscious about what

8:17side of the building you're on yeah and there are a lot of really good shade tolerant things to grow out there as well too yeah so containers yeah containers next to kind of thing after water and sunlight you got all that kind of figured out one way to play around with the sunlight too is having a container garden containers you can grow almost anything you know I've been using and growing in in earth wicking buckets that we use a lot around here in our garden spaces that you mentioned earlier in my bio there we've got this suspended back patio so containers are kind of required in a way I don't have in-ground space to grow things in so we've built out elevated raised beds as well which are just large large containers and with the sunlight you can move containers around if they're not too big and as I also like to say size does kind of matter when it comes to containers especially in the heat of the

9:19summer they really does there's a lot of things you grow in small containers but trying to keep up with watering and those sort of things with those just doesn't make them that feasible especially in like food growing situations so I always recommend people grow in things at least like five gallons or above and you can move around some five gallon buckets like I said you can grow almost anything in them there's just a few things that just grow larger fruits or some trees and things like that that you might not use for them but at that point bigger at that point you got those cool felt pots we've got some big large ones around here that we use like 40 gallons even that you can get these up to so you can really grow some really good size plants utilizing all sorts of different types of containers and those are just really important in an urban space that will they really give you a lot of versatility nice and the next one is vertical growing yeah our next key to a small space gardening real

10:19keys to our small spaces is a vertical growing there's so many different types of trellis scene that we can do and get online and just look up type in trellis scene and see all the different varieties and things and possibilities you can do we build a lot of our own like cage type trellis is whether they're wood we've got a few metal ones nice big ones to hold those big tomato plants in or we also use that those smaller ones they call tomato cages for peppers and holding those up and all that sort of stuff but we grow the bigger ones because we want to take our vining plants like again tomatoes indeterminates will grow big so we want to be able to grow them up and upward so we do nice tall trellises for those and build all sorts of other things for peas and beans and some of our cucumbers and and we even grow up some watermelons and things up some a few different other types of trellis scene but anything that can vine you want to be

11:21able to take advantage of those types of plants and get those in and grow them straight up as possible if you can so vertical growing is really important to be able to maximize your growing space in some of these small urban spaces well there's there's value to vining as well I have a patio here at the house that had an old metal structure on it that had a canvas top on it yeah and when we arrived the canvas top was shot so we had to throw the canvas top a dispose of it and I planted two grape vines yes so this the the metal thing was on a patio but I planted two grape vines right next to the patio and I ran them up and this past year it completely shaded this 10 by 10 patio nice and it gave me grapes and then and then and then in the fall the leaves fell and that gave me mulch for the gardens so yeah lots of great point though too where you can find

12:26ways of utilizing things especially grapes that are going to continue to grow year after year to create shade structures yeah your spaces like that is well too that's that's a great idea when this goes right into the next step which is layering yeah yeah layering is another kind of important thing is well too we think in a wider sense a lot of folks out there might be familiar with like food forests and things like that where you've kind of got them some things growing it at different layers of the forest or in the in a case of a small space garden your garden space and you've got to bring some things up high to take advantage of that sun up you know up above and then you've got a lot of things that you can layer into your understory in different ways and bringing it down to and back to the idea of more shade tolerant varieties growing underneath of things that need more sun and just really kind of working with those sort of things in your garden space and making sure that you're

13:29maximizing the sun value that you have in your space and that goes back to what we were talking about in sunlight we're dealing with a lot of buildings and walls and things like that are happening so sometimes it isn't until a certain time of day that the sun's starting to hit just a certain height within your garden space so you want to make sure certain things are at those levels during those times to be able to take advantage of that sunlight so that's really where layering becomes key making sure that you take advantage of the sunlight that we have available to us. I amen to that the next one is soil management now we talked a lot about water that's a bigger topic and I think we're going to probably spend a little more time here on soil management because besides water the next most important thing is getting the right soil and what I've told people for decades is there's five components to healthy soil and where we are in the desert and where most people are you have

14:34one of the components it's dirt and if you are just trying to grow in straight dirt good luck right right yeah so here's I like doing this spiel whenever I get a chance five components of healthy soil dirt airspace water organic matter and everything that's alive in the soil so it's our job to make sure that we get the dirt's important because it's got micronutrients in it the organic matter is really the key to a lot of this and I see on your talking point Liz there's a lot of talk about organic matter so go yes yes absolutely because again we may be talking about container spaces and growing plants in these sort of situations which isn't in ground which is is the best way really if you get the opportunity to be able to do it but we don't really got that opportunity and soil is just as important when it comes to a container garden

15:38as any other garden and I like to say that the same aspects really kind of apply to a lot of how I look at my soil management for my containers and my garden as I would be looking at taking care of soil in ground other than the fact that we're mixing up we're bringing in a lot of our own soils and some of us living cities and don't have real access to a lot of certain stuff so there's some bag soils and mixes and things out there I like to try to make my own mixes from like compost and bring it out it is and things to them so that I can make sure that I've got a really good solid organic mix myself and I don't want to walk past the notion of organic if you are buying store-bought bagged soils you can get an organic soil it's called OMRI I'm recertified so jump in if I was going to use bag soil when I do bag soil I always use OMRI certified

16:40yeah yeah you definitely want to be making sure that we are looking to have the best organic garden possible always look out for OMRI certification for anything that you're buying that is some sort of additive whether it's soil or other things the fertilizers all that sort of stuff you want to make sure that it's got some level of organic certification for it and OMRI is the best in in those cases I'll do some of my own mixes for things adding like coir to some compost I'm adding some vermiculite in there for drainage and making sure that the I've got those components together as you were mentioning too we want to make sure we have a good well-draining soil in a container mix for sure so I utilize like permits perlites and vermiculites and things like that adding now new I'm new to the whole thing with biochar oh yes so I'm telling you I'm thinking this is a really new big thing for me in some of my mixes that I'm doing as well and putting together but we want to make sure

17:43that again like you said we're doing things really organically and I'm using compost in my containers just as I would for regular in-ground garden I also look at my containers kind of like in a sense of no till as well just like anyone would do with in-ground and all of that I when I get a good because these are going to be five gallon or above good-sized containers and when I get those soil established I want to make sure again because the first year with the container soil whether it's bagged or your own mix or that sort of thing isn't going to be the best year because that soil is really going to build up going to have to take time to build up all of that soil life that is really important all your microbes microorganisms all those sort of things got to build up that life has got to start to create in your soil so it's going to take a good season or so for a good container mix to really start hitting it stride and I don't change out my containers every single year and I'm not worried about doing those things all I'm doing is adding compost just like I

18:46would do with my in-ground each year as our soil is settling down I'll have an extra inch or two on each of my containers every year I just fill that up with good compost and I don't want to step past something really important that you just said and that is the first year isn't always going to be great so what do you tell people new gardeners about that yeah that is one of the bigger points I like to make sure folks understand especially in really in any other garden is that your first year is never your best year but especially in container gardening because of these factors we are kind of limited to containers and because of being limited to containers we do have to do mixed soils and establish basically new soil situations for any of our plants to be growing in so I've grown really great plants in some first-year soils it is possible the thing is is that a lot of plants will struggle in new soils and sometimes it's

19:51not going to grow to it's most optimum so you just got to be aware of those things when it comes to your newer containers and I run into that every year because I'm bringing introducing new containers or I'm taking some out and replacing them and that sort of stuff so I'm just always aware that those newer ones are I wouldn't say struggle in a sense it's just that they got to establish themselves and it's going to take just a little bit longer then just planting something in ground for the soil to be proper and and capable of taking care of the plants the way it needs the way you want them to yeah so the big takeaway here is don't get discouraged your first year absolutely yeah and yeah again any garden space but especially container gardens yeah be definitely be aware of that it's it's part of the learning curve when it comes down to a first-time gardening but you're well off and run in when in those second years when it comes down to it so look forward to some really great growing situations in your upcoming seasons that's definitely a part of the

20:52advice I give all new gardeners amen to that and then the next step in your nine steps is creativity yeah well I mean really important here we are again back to the idea we're of the buildings and walls and different types of spaces that we're dealing with throughout the garden we've got to be really creative and how we think about for one we talked about layering and placing and doing things with all of our containers and we also got to think about all these different spaces that we could be utilizing maybe we don't have even that patio I've got maybe all of God has a walkway along an apartment place I live in and I've seen some really cool kind of walkway gardens and we utilize our alleyways here in my spaces it was something I learned from my neighbor as he was out growing tomatoes and things when I was starting my first gardens here many many years ago and he was out growing things right on the alleyway and it was just to me I was like wow that's really genius the way of thinking of utilizing your space

21:53it's left to do nothing pretty much other than growing weeds and things and there were some bunch of other spaces for me to utilize and as I was growing out on the alleyway I turned around and looked and noticed my car port and I was like wait a minute that rooftop's nice and flat up there all of that sort of stuff and containers we could put those right up on top of there and start utilizing those spaces and that's kind of the idea is that now I'm kind of thinking really creatively around the unique spaces that exist around my property to maximize my ability to grow more and more food it really takes me out of that box of the limitations of that just back patio we're utilizing our car port we're utilizing our fence lines and even fences going back to what you were talking about with the grapevines I've got a grapevine that's now utilizing one of our back fences as a trellis back there and everything and so there's lots of aspects of creativity one other one too that I'm getting to work

22:54on this next year is guttering you can get use small gutters and put those up on fences to get those where you get some good sunlight and all of that wall mounted planters there's all sorts of those types of things that you can use and that kind of another way of looking at how to get and utilize sunlight that might only exist in certain places but isn't really conducive for maybe a container any other type of plantain but you could put something up on the wall or something to grab that sunlight so beyond the lookout for those sort of things and like you said just be creative in how you see their spaces around you well I'm talking about being creative community is next so you don't have a space and I want to tell a quick story yeah and then I'm gonna let you jump in here my friend Margaret and Phoenix couple of decades ago didn't have a garden space because she lived in a condo I like to call her Margaret the condo gardener and if you want to hear that

23:54story it's episode 619 on the Urban Farm Podcast she went and found a neighbor by walking the alleyways in her neighborhood and convinced a neighbor to let her user backyard garden that had been not taken care of and so that's how Margaret got her garden so yeah that's such a great story and it's such a great example of exactly what I try to tell people because again I'll get into conversations about growing in cities and apartments and how I got started with a balcony on an apartment that sort of thing and I'll hear people say well I just don't have any space I live on the second floor and there's nothing around or anything like that and I'm like and I agree and I understand and I feel for those folks and everything and so you know solutions have to be found kind of outside of your immediate area your immediate home and this is where we want to be looking for community gardens out there we want to be looking for other spaces

24:59that we can use and like your friend did go walk around your neighborhood go meet your neighbors good chance to get to know the community around you for and then find some of these neighbors who've got some nice backyards that aren't doing anything with them and I've found that really as I've talked with others and neighbors around me as well too and I have enough space in all of my spaces I've been able to turn into growing but I still get offers from people oh if you want to garden over here you can garden over here what people are happy to utilize their spaces in those ways especially if you're the one maintaining them and you're growing the food over there right so definitely walk around find some people in your neighborhood you'll probably find some really willing participants and let you use some spaces to grow a garden and to grow some food if you can also utilize a community ad boards you can find those at your libraries other places laundromat stick of other places wherever you see like one of those cork boards somewhere where people are sticking their

26:00business cards and all that sort of thing you could throw up a little sign saying hey do you got a space that I could garden in but I'm sure you can get some responses and find some people in your community that way and community gardens there's hopefully one nearby you I've got a few around me of community garden to myself the big point here too is community is getting to be able to connect with people and whether it's getting to know your neighbors and finding other spaces or the really great aspect of a community garden is to be able to meet and grow with other gardeners in in the same space you've all got your different plots you get to grow and do different things and you get to learn from each other share plants with each other food and and harvests with each other all that sort of stuff it's such a great way to really build a local community is getting involved with a community garden and then if you don't have one like you might not have space around where you live and you gotta go out and

27:01find and get some space to do that sort of thing but maybe a community garden something you really want to do and you don't have one get out and start one go work with your community and define some folks who want to do that as well and get in with your city or something and I'm sure there's a space that they would mind you using and get a community garden started nice and this goes into your last point treasure your garden yeah this is the big thing we're taking our time we've done all this stuff to build and set up and make sure we've got the best garden and utilizing our space the best way but we've also got to take time to enjoy the space that we've built and garden art lighting these sort of things that I've kind of added to my garden space to enjoy it just a little bit more as I get to hang out and just spend time with my garden and another thing is to grow a lot mostly food but I've found incorporating other things if you're if you're a food-minded

28:02person and growing for food other things in your garden is really nice to have as well I've incorporated a lot of flowers and different flowering plants throughout the garden space they also help with bringing more pollinators and all of that to keep my garden nice and lively because that's what I like to enjoy when I'm enjoying my garden space is seeing how alive everything is and all the different pollinators flying around and stuff too so I say really kind of add some things to your garden space so you can really enjoy it bring in more of those pollinators but most of all have fun enjoy your garden just have fun and enjoy your garden space each season brings a new opportunity for a new garden and we get so much more out of our gardens than just food I find a good it brings a good sense of mine and peace of mind it brings to me and like I said I enjoy it so much and it won't be discouraged either by any sort of what a lot of people say and I hear all the time are these failures and the word comes up a lot and I like to think of a failure

29:04more as a learning opportunity and my last piece of advice when it comes to all of this is don't take on too much I do that all the time I think it's a natural thing for a lot of gardeners I talk to and everything is that we want to grow anything and everything we can get our eyes on and sometimes I can create some issues and things and other problems and stuff but you know don't do too much you know take your failures as learning opportunity don't be discouraged have a lot of fun and really enjoy your garden space hey man to that so you have actually done a really good job on turning your passion into a youtube channel and website what's the name of your show yeah well the show on our channel the urban gardener on youtube is called let's get growing and just been such a fun project we started our channel the urban gardener about eight years ago really I can't believe it's been

30:07that long but it's only been I think well I we're in our fourth year now for the let's get growing show and this is really kind of taking everything to this whole new level when I first envisioned the channel it was about this idea of wanting to connect with the garden community really had this idea of wanting to do interview style videos and those sort of things but when the pandemic hit and all of that we were all clicking on to zoom and doing different things it just kind of set this idea and motion of like well let's start connecting with all these great gardeners out there and let's put together a nice little show and you know tell garden stories and hang out with each other and talk gardening what's one of the biggest thing in my life is that you know what I think a lot of us who are really really passionate gardeners is that you know there isn't you go hang out with some friends and family and all of that but the garden conversation can only go so far so we're kind of wanting for that ability to talk about our garden spaces right with others who are

31:09just as passionate as we are and that's exactly what our show is about is you know just hanging out with each other on the weekends and and having just really great conversations all around our favorite thing when you do a live Saturday show and a live Sunday show yeah and this year now too we added on a live Monday show as well too Monday evenings as well it's really the biggest thing that I just can't believe about this whole show is that it's really taken on a life of its own I had this vision of being able to bring on gardeners and and when I thought about it I was like I don't know we'll see who I can bring on and how many people I can talk into doing this right and that's been the success not just the great audience and people who've come on to take part in the conversation because it's a live show so that means we're live on YouTube you can jump into the chat there you can be a part of the conversation you can ask our guest questions that sort of stuff too so it's really great in that aspect but

32:09we've been really successful in bringing on guests and people and all of that to have these just really wonderful gardening conversations and so with that we started with a Saturday show when we've got into our first year and had so much success with bringing people on we wanted to bring those people back on right but there was just a ton of other people we wanted to bring on as well too so we had to start a whole Sunday show in the second year and so for the last two years we've been doing the weekend Saturday and Sunday 11 a.m. Pacific on those two shows and then the same sort of thing started happening we got a big bottleneck on all of the wonderful people and guests who've come on to be on our show to be able to bring them back on so we had to add this Monday evening the garden club that we do now which is Mondays and five a different kind of time setup for us a week day as well too and and we just have a kind of a fun kind of garden club round table conversations with all sorts of different

33:11gardeners from around the world just to share our passion for growing and gardening with each other through some really fun conversation nice and the Sunday show is a book club and you prompted me before we started today to ask you yeah to recommend a book and you mentioned oh we should talk about the book club so yeah tell me about a little bit about the book club and give me a book to read yeah yeah I was saying that on our Sunday show it's a variety we have different things going on on different Sundays the third Sunday of the month however is our monthly gardening book club and I think it's probably been one of the most fun additions that we've added to our show two years ago and it's my co-host, a Mark Bouchet-Cobair he's a good friend of mine who I got to meet when I first started this YouTube adventure and we get together and hang out with these just really amazing authors who've written some of these just really incredible books and we've done I would say almost 20 of

34:15them by now wow yeah being a live show it's live so guests can come on and ask questions of these really great authors we talk all about their books and how their story behind the books all that sort of stuff so different than kind of like the book club a lot of people are used to you hanging out in your neighborhood or someone's home in living room and you're talking about whatever book and sharing with each other we do all of that we bring the author along as well too into your living room and have a conversation with them about that book and it just makes it really amazing really fun and all you want to just really cooler parts of our show that we've added on over the last couple of years and as far as books and recommendations and all of that all of our books are wonderful they're awesome I encourage people go and check out the playlist that we have for those but as far as this last year I'd have to say it's hard to pinpoint a favorite I don't like to say favorites too much but I'd have to say that one of the books I really enjoyed

35:18the most this year was a book called The Triumph of Seeds by Thor Hanson and this book is just full of so many just great historical stories and perspectives on how seeds kind of evolved and came about and the important role that they've played in human history and all of this sort of stuff just so completely fascinated by the stories that he told within that book so I would highly recommend that book out of the ones that again all of them I recommend to go check out but The Triumph of Seeds by Thor Hanson Thor was just an amazing conversation as well too on our book club conversation he shared so many other perspectives and information outside of the book as well too just a just a really amazing person and I really recommend to go and read Triumph of Seeds by Thor Hanson and go check out our book club interview with him as well nice so it's the Triumph of Seeds how grains, nuts, kernels, pulses and pips

36:23conquered the plant kingdom and shaped human history and it's available in paperback and audio book for those of you to listen to those books that's cool thanks for that you won't regret it it's such a great book you'll love the stories he tells in that book it's great way cool so your channel is the Urban Gardener on YouTube and then the show is the Let's Get Growing Show that we do live cool well and I noticed so I went to your channel I'm looking at it and you have one episode that's been viewed over a quarter million times yeah yeah I think well we've got a couple of them I think they're up over a quarter million now we're right around that marker so hey Durvey family farm that's that 6,000 square foot farm in LA right yeah yeah yeah probably one of the more fun experiences I've had and getting to make videos doing YouTube was going to the urban homestead the urban

37:28homestead there in the Pasadena outside of Los Angeles there and just really a wonderful beautiful place there's still maintaining it just as awesome as it was back and I think when the their father started it I think it was in the mid to late 80s been covered on all sorts of different media over the years from Oprah to the today show good morning America all these sort of different types of stories been done on this just amazing wonderful place and they are just really awesome people and have invited me there a couple of times in fact hopefully by time this podcast comes out you can go back to my YouTube page right now and get an updated video I mean kind of hold on to some footage right now from my last visit I went and visited them a little while back ago to do a new video so that to get an update from everything they do have a wonderful story about continuing this project their

38:30father started it back in the mid to late 80s he's since passed away and it's now run by the siblings brother and two sisters and they continue to not just maintain this just wonderful space but also build on to it now it's it's really an educational space as well too as being this a small farm that they do in the city it's just really great place awesome video and again like I said go back go look up and I'm gonna make sure I get it done before this podcast is out there you go find an updated version where we get a gradient review with all three of the siblings together talking about this just really amazing place oh my gosh that's going to be great well thank you so much for joining us on the show unique absolutely great it's always awesome to get together and talk with you and by just also on and by saying that I really want to thank you especially talked about how wonderful this show is in doing my channel and all that sort of stuff it really is that way because of all the great people I've

39:33gotten to meet and to who've been not only guests but really enthusiastic participants in the projects that I've done over the years and you've been one of those people who've always been there and I could always call on to come and be a guest on my show and we've had many great conversations as well too so I really want to thank you for not just having me here on the show with you here today but also everything else you've done to help support me and what I've been doing over the years as well too so again thank you for having me thank you well thank thank you the feeling is mutual I've been on your show multiple times you've been on the podcast multiple times it's all about getting the word out that's right thank you your youtube channel is the urban gardener and your website our website is let's get growing dot live and you can find our channel at youtube.com at the urban gardener

40:34all right awesome thank you thank you thank you and you can find show notes from today's podcast at urbanfarm.org forward slash treasure your garden we hope you enjoyed today's episode of the urban farm podcast remember to listen for tips advice and resources to help you on your journey with urban farming you can find us on the web at urbanfarm.org or send us an email to podcast at urbanfarm.org in the words of Vincent Van Gogh great things are done by a series of small things brought together be encouraged that with each lesson learned and skill developed you are one step closer in the direction of your dreams