#582 - Morgan Evans on Public Divorce, Ayahuasca Experience & Healing

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2:12It's annoying. I'll say it. Okay, thanks. No, it is. You're a little taller than you should be. You're a little more muscular than you should be. And you're just strikingly good looking. Sometimes it pisses me off. Thank you and good night. Yes. I know. I know. Hey, today on the bobbycast, Morgan Evans is here. You've seen the headlines for the song. You should probably watch everything unfold in real time. But today for the first time, Morgan's actually going to talk about his side of the last few years from a very public divorce to disappearing back home to Australia and therapy and rebuilding his life and making what might be his most personal record ever. I think it is. Now he's back with the brand new album Stilltown out March 20th. A new tour. And yes, a new love. Here he is unfiltered, honest, and ready to talk. It is Morgan Evans. I feel like sometimes I want to text you, but then I look and see what time it is where you are at the time. And then it's like two in the morning because you're off in another country. And I don't text you. That's just my confession to you as a friend.

3:14See, you should always text me. I don't like people texting me at one or two a.m. Even though I have the Do Not Disturb. Cause I do wake up at night and check my phone sometimes, which is a bad habit. But I never do quite know where you are. And then you just, you left for a while. Yeah. Well, I've been in Australia since Christmas. No, but you like left. It felt like for years. Oh, like left coming in to see you at the radio station. That kind of thing you made. Yeah, I just, just you were just gone. Yeah, for a while. Yeah. Did you move, move away from Nashville? No, no, no. We were on the road pretty much flat out. I remember I think at the end of 22, I was like, I want to be so busy next year that I don't have time to think about my own life. And turns out the people I was working with are really good at their jobs. We just went hard. I need you busy. Yeah, we just went hard. And then I think at the end of that run, I think it was just important to kind of take some time to like take stuck of life and actually just sort of take time creatively to make a record. I think after the first album that I put out here, it was just like on the run

4:18and everything was kind of made in between. And I actually didn't put out an album from 2018 to like right now. And so I wanted this next thing to be a body of work that I was proud of. And I love so much that I wanted to share with the world. And and and come back and do all this kind of thing, you know. Okay, I just want to get to that I always get thing. Can I do that? Yeah, can I go right to? I'm just so curious. Is that an impression release or something? No, did we talk about it? No, oh, I just know about it. Oh, okay, from Brett. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how I know what I talked about it a bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so curious. Because I would love to do drugs. I know that's not considered like a regular drug. I just want to do any drug. I just I just want to like feel free somehow. Like the closest I get to laughing gas. And I had this two dentist. Yeah, I'm at this tooth replaced. Dude, I some freaking heaven. Yeah, right. Like sometimes I feel like I want to break my teeth just so I can go and get laughing gas. Yeah, I say I've never had that. I've never done that before. Okay, but did you do that? Did you do Ayahuasca?

5:19I did, yeah. And do you say do? Is it the language? Do you do Ayahuasca? I think so. Yeah, you definitely. It's like a comes in a liquid form. I know nothing talked to me like I'm five. Well, I went to this place in Costa Rica. And it's I feel like there's probably more like informed people to talk about exactly what it is. But basically it's a it's a liquid that's made from the combination of a couple of plants. And the active ingredient is DMT. Have you heard about that? And so the other ingredient in there sort of makes it kind of like a slow release. And I'm sure people in the comments all correct me here. Effectively that's kind of the the you know technical description. But then yeah, you go along to these ceremonies. It's just like sort of places made for it. Like a retreat center or something. And yeah, every evening you go to this big building and the ceremony is held by a different sort of shaman or shower woman. I don't know if that's a term even.

6:20But yeah, you should have go up and you you take a shot of this liquid. You drink it. Yeah. And then you go and lie down and see what happens. That's crazy. Yeah, I have friends that have used ketamine. Okay. For a lot of the reasons that I think I should use ketamine. And I want to do a ketamine eye on waska like smoothie. I don't know if that's the that probably kill me. But I'm just always afraid when I get on something somebody's going to take a picture of my wiener. That is my that's my fear. Like seriously, like it's like or it's like when I had to go get my ad ankle surgery I was like I'm going under but I told my doctor I'm petrified so I'm going to take a picture of my wiener. It's not even a weird wiener. I just think that it's so vulnerable. Right, right, right. It is very vulnerable, yes. And I'm such a control freak. But I think that's why I've always said and this is me not joking. I would love to do drugs or some sort of drug

7:22to get me to do in the best way that I can explain it is this because I can't do that. My life I've not been able to to really master breathing deep and not being so tightly wound. Okay, because of a lot of stuff. Kid trauma, adult anxiety, so whenever I was like, man, I knew I had tried ayahuasca. I was like, I didn't know what that felt like. How vulnerable that felt. Well, very vulnerable. I will say the way that you just described what you're looking for, I would say it's probably not the best for that. It's not the best for that? No, because you do it in a group. There's quite a few people there, at least when I was doing it. Everyone has different experiences, but there was people I feel like I've done, you know, I've spent a decent amount of time meditating. You know, part of this is like, last few years, I would like try to learn how to do that. I went to this retreat for a weekend to do that as well.

8:23And I tried just about everything we can get into it if you want. I did, there was one lady at this ayahuasca retreat that was very tightly wound to the point where she was kind of like, this is the fifth time I've done it, nothing's working. Nothing's working. And it is definitely one of those things that will work to a degree, but I think if you want to actually have a positive or transformative experience, you need to be able to get into a state of what will be will be. And I found the time that I'd spent meditating really helpful in that way, because it was when I was sort of getting into that state that the actual you know, the medicine or the drugs or whatever would actually take effect and be helpful. Drug may be the wrong thing to call it. And if that's offensive to the ayahuasca community. Yeah, I want to be, I want to be not offensive either. I was like, yeah, well then what's the goal when you go to a place like that? If it's not to just relax.

9:25Yeah, I think just generally speaking, why would you go to ayahuasca? Well, so one of the reasons I went to this particular place is they do a lot of like throughout the day is you can go to these kind of talks or lectures. And so they'll have like a neuroscientist there. And they'll explain the benefits of it and what's actually happening. Or they'll have a therapist there and they'll talk about, well, hey, what's your experience? If you have this experience, maybe like allow this to happen or just go with this or you know, do you see things? And I'm not joking, but are you like talking to things in your mind? I think everybody's experience is different. And it is a very hard thing to explain and it's not something I'd recommend to anybody. I think it's definitely like a last resort moment. And the moment that I went down there, I was in a point in my life where I was just like overwhelmed and confused. And it's like everything I thought was real was like not real. And it was just I was kind of down to find out anything.

10:28And I think at the end of it, people are there like for a search for meaning or purpose or to make sense of something. A lot of the conversations I was having with people down there were around past traumas that they could go and make sense of. And I think the best way I could describe at least what happened to me during that was through kind of visual and like physical experiences, you're told this story or you have this experience of reliving things that have happened from different perspectives, almost like an out-of-body thing that you get to witness happen. And you can kind of just take your person out of it, look at it objectively. And instead of being like oh my god that hurts so much or oh my god like I'm broken because of this. It's just like oh no that's what happened. And and that's why. And now you're here. And like it's good that you know those things now and you're moving on.

11:31You took something from it. I think the way that I said it just then sounds really simple but I think at the end of the day that is like turning pain into wisdom and then getting on with it. And at the end of that week everything felt lighter for sure. It's been really helpful and I have no desire to go do it again. Really it was just a and which is another thing I think is great about it. You know I think it's still like unfolds and I kind of go back to the notes. I would go home each night and like write down my experience you know and and it's been a really good reset or like kind of life navigation tool or something like that. Yeah. I've really thought about doing the ketamine here. The ketamine is kind of you go into a doctor and they like give you from my knowledge of it because I have friends that have done it. Again you need to be at a place where it's an option to

12:33hopefully get you to a healthier place. So it's not like I don't know what's like to do crack but it's not like doing crack. I don't know I was like do crack so I don't even know what's not like I don't know what it's like a recreational thing I guess is what I should say. We should get someone else into that one. I did have a show idea that I I'm not I can't do it because I just wouldn't do it but I thought it would be the greatest TV show for me to do a show called Bobby Does Drugs and it was me trying drugs for the first time every drug because I'm tried nothing I'm not even drinking alcohol so I like every episode like me drinking alcohol me smoking weed let's try cocaine episode three number four we're doing crack and then just to wash and see what it does to me tell me that wouldn't be the I can't do it because I'll die but wouldn't that be like a really interesting show. If you ever do this show please let me do it with you. You wouldn't want to do it with me. I wouldn't let me do it. You would honestly it's a funny idea you you would pull me aside and go don't do this show. Yeah. As a friend you would go don't do it but it isn't that not a great concept. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Cracking booby bonds. Yeah. Episode six funnels crack through his butt. Yeah well. Yeah. We're then we get harder. Yeah you can't

13:40really jackass doing drugs. Yeah well. My friends that have tried ketamine have done it for actual therapeutic reasons. Yeah. They would go to their psychiatrist. Yeah. Their doctor would recommend. Yeah. They would go. I have two very close friends that have done it to a house. They like taking Uber to this house. They don't even drive. They are in a room. I don't know how the ketamine is done. If it's maybe a loss, a loss engine I think is what it is. And the experience that they say is so macro that they are able to see a little like you said themselves so much bigger than they are but they're also going to places that are happy and sad and they can look in the mirror and still tell it's like real life. Not Alice in Wonderland type stuff but at the same time they're able to have these crazy therapeutic trips. I think that would be so great. I'm just such a control freak. Yeah. I would say that element of yourself that you describing may

14:41impede experiences with psychedelic drugs or I don't know anything about ketamine so maybe that too. Maybe ketamine because it's actually like drugs drugs. We're going to say again to the cameras. We don't know what we're clinically. We don't know what we're talking about so allow us to have this conversation without being in the comments or anywhere saying we know we don't know what we're talking about. I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm not quick to speak on that but I will say of all the people that I met at this retreat. I went by myself which I will think also I think is important. Yeah. Flute down. Stay by yourself the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. It was like it was the end of the road thing man. It was like I needed something like I was desperately just looking for something to just like find some grounding and I met all kinds of people there like the lady that I mentioned who was like why isn't this working why isn't this working and then her actually her partner was a surgeon and he was kind of you know like she's dragged me down here

15:44and we'll see what happens and then a couple days later he was like wow this is like a really kind of amazing transformative experience to people like me that had you know really really great experiences and then those people they're like this is my sixth time I come every year or whatever you know. So there's all kinds of people that do it and they're all looking for different things but I think that essentially from my experience it was a really positive one but again like I would never I didn't come back going like hey man everyone should go do this like it's a very intense not an enjoyable experience but the outcome is enjoyable really. I did an intensive once a five day intensive where I was I felt like I was at the end of my rope where I think it had just been so many holidays in a row that I didn't have I don't have family really and so all my friends then go to their families and I don't dedicate it all my life to work and that only goes so far you reach a point eventually where you're like what am I even doing if I can't have anyone to do it with right and so I went this place for five maybe six days they take your phone I was staying in

16:49a cabin there was no electricity in the cabin there was in like the food hall and much like you're saying it sucked until it was over and you're like I just gained so much from that because I would be in therapy at therapy part of for eight hours a day wow so before hours break four hours one on one intense therapy where I don't I'm not a cryer and it's not because I'm not it's not because I'm scared of like lack of masculinity it's because I'm scared of vulnerability weakness right I think that's why I don't cry because I've always been I can't show people I'm weak because I'm weak I'm a loser and I can't and I went to that it just reminds me of what you're saying it was very difficult it was not fun but it was really I remember driving home going I think I just gained more in that than I've gained in the last 15 years of there because I was at the end of my rope to in a different way yeah and so I understand that because I would not do it again

17:52yeah yeah but I'm glad I did it yeah was a lot of yours rooted in how public your divorce even just like breakup slash divorce was is that where that route was rooted in yeah it was that and the personal side of it as well and it would also suck to be so far away from home and then something so personal is also happening to you right you can't even like reach out and touch your van your close family right all right yeah for sure I know that was definitely hard for my for my family too but yeah it was it was it was a tough time man and that whole that whole time was really tough and I think that sort of bled into the public side which you mentioned but also like the business side of things and then the personal side of things and then it's sort of got you know to the end of that year where I didn't have time to think about my life I got to the end of it and I was like what is the purpose of all this and what's real and what's not and what the hell am I doing in the middle of it and I think that was kind of the that was the end of the road kind of feeling I hated this city for a couple years whenever I had this stalker issue that was

18:55happening like I wanted to leave the city and I hated everything about it because it was like what's even happening here hmm who are my real friends none of this matters like I had that relationship with the city I don't anymore I'm good again right but I hated it for a while yeah did you ever hate this city um I don't know if I hated Nashville but I definitely think I saw way far farther behind the curtain if that makes sense and I think I realized that I've been pretty naive to maybe the you know how like in our business there's so like maybe more than any other business friendship and real life and business and art and all that sort of just melds into one and so I was probably pretty naive to the boundaries on that kind of those kind of

19:57things and I also think that I realized in a town like Nashville which is maybe like one of the things that you could hate about Nashville or whatever it's like similar to maybe LA or New York a lot of people come here with big dreams they come here with dreams to do whatever it is work in the music business or be a songwriter or singer or recording whatever and I think those dreams are so big that they got them out of their hometown or their country that come here and those dreams are also big that like this times where like a moral compass can get clouded by the big dream and the desperation that can sometimes come along with that and so you see all these people that aren't necessarily like bad people just kind of ignoring maybe the right thing to do or not being as genuine as they could be or should be or ordinarily would be and I think that was just like a bit of a reckoning for me I think maybe when anyone goes through a divorce or you know you leave a management company or I'm sure you've had this experience where you stop working with someone

20:58and then all of a sudden all these people like well hey actually did you hear about this you know and so there was a lot of that going on and I'd say the reason I didn't hate Nashville is because I think when that happens you also find out who the real ones are and so that was something to really kind of lean on and appreciate at that time as well. He was going to ask if it proved to you who you're and I don't throw the word friend around loosely if you if you found out really who your friends were. Yeah absolutely and I've got to say on air too man during that time you were such a legend for me like personally going through divorce is horrendous and I had no I had no reference for it like my grandparents have been married 70 years my parents have been married 45 years my brother and sister are still together none of my mates are divorced so I was learning about that in real time like you know the nitty gritty of how all that goes down

21:59and then the public thing happened as well and I think you reached out to me and you're like hey dude if you need anything just just let me know well maybe I reached out to you I can't remember whatever way it happened we ended up going to play pickleball one day and you were just like it was just so helpful to talk someone that had been through public controversy before and um I still remember the advice you gave me and and it kept me going through that time because you you said there's only two ways you can deal with this you need to go and say everything as loudly as you can and be as honest as you can or you just need to go away don't say anything and live your best life and I got that same advice from my therapist and some rockstar friends and country friends but you the first guy that gave to me and um I uh I just appreciated that so much

23:03because during that time I had like a record label and management team that were like you need to go do a tell all interview and like or like do a podcast or like whatever it was at the time and so um yeah that gave me really good grounding I feel like you reaching out as a mate without a vested interest I knew you weren't trying to like make money from me or or anything like that and so um I thank you for that truly well I hope you also know that I in this business is weird because yeah you we everybody travels yeah but like you'd be one of the people if you were like hey can you see if you match for a kidney I would give you a kidney dude like I really would like you there's like seven it's hard in this town to have other creatives that you feel like you trust even though you don't get to see them as much because this industry is I won't say nomadic as we don't move but we're we're gone a lot yeah yeah that if I don't see it for nine months and you came back and you're like hey yeah whatever you need yeah I got like seven people

24:04on this town you're one of them yeah yeah and going through anything and I've had it happen to me anything extremely public where you are highly criticized especially the first couple of times it just feels it's so foreign and it's foreignly hurtful yeah all you see and feel is all the negative yeah yeah and that's I didn't feel bad for you I empathize with you yeah because I remember I know I remember reaching out and I never tell anybody hey if you need anybody hit me up and don't mean it because I don't say that very often yeah yeah yeah but I'm like I can shed some advice based on the poor experiences that I've had yeah we built the little pickleball net out there on that court we played it's awesome yeah we went to Kansas Iowa to a basketball game in the in the ice and snow it was fun and it was just like there are times where you really need community yeah there are times where I really need a community yeah and I hated to see that for you I talk about perspective a lot and and you you only get perspective if you've been through some crap yeah

25:06perspective is never free no nobody gets to have the benefit of a ton of perspective unless they've actually been through it I think now you're back with a lot of perspective yeah that is 100% true 100% sure it's funny you see everything a little little more differently now um but yeah that meant a lot man I don't want to don't want to let that slide so it didn't slide and I know it yeah and I don't even mind sharing this I and the text message that means a lot to me that I get to share now with people because sometimes I'll just say what happened I was talking to Granger Smith on a podcast and I know Granger no Granger for a long time and his kid tragically died in a pool accident and so I Granger now we're talking about it and Granger had sat with this person who had a similar thing and I was like I told Granger I said I can I don't know how you did that you sit there for hours and you listen to this person I said I don't know that I'm that good of a person to be and you message me like dude I was listening to that like you are that good a person because you do that with me and like I was like dang like

26:06that made me actually like myself a little bit when I struggle with liking myself a little bit so I appreciate that but I know you meant it and I hope you know that I meant I mean not even meant it's not past tense like cats out of the bag we love each other now this is not just a normal interview but like yeah I hated to see that for you and I got really defensive for you you didn't ask me to at all no that was hard that was hard it was really hard for you yeah and let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor next Monday our 2026 iHard podcast awards are happening live in South by Southwest just the biggest night in podcasting will honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry and the winner is creativity knowledge and passion will all be on full display thank you so much iHard radio thank you to all the other nominees you guys are awesome watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern 5 p.m. Pacific free at beeps.com or the beeps app hi this is Joe interesting

27:11host of the spirit daughter podcast where we talk about astrology natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life and I just sat down with a mini driver the Irish traveler said when I was 16 you're gonna have a terrible time with men actor storyteller and unapologetic aquarium visionary aquariums is all about freedom loving and different perspectives and I find a lot of people with strong placements and Aquarius like are misunderstood a son and Venus and Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership he really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on different houses in different places but just an embracing of the isness of it all if you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology creativity and real life this episode is a must listen listen to this pure daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHard radio app apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcast hey this is well zadams with by order

28:18of the faithfuls podcast alongside my fellow faithfuls and co-hosts tamara judge and lora's katanya the three of us have been watching the season of the traders and we've been inside that castle so we have insight unlike many others this season of the traders may be the best we've ever seen listen to by order the faithfuls on the iHard radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts on the adventures of curiosity co-podcasts what if the right fit isn't what everyone expects in the case of the right fit ellie explores movement confidence and belonging and learns that not all strength looks the same tennis is powerful fast focused in kind of fun strong swing Ella this women's history month story introduces kids to women who change sports by trusting themselves and moving differently a thoughtful episode about identity courage and helping kids discover where they truly belong so it's okay if i'm not quite sure what my

29:22thing is yet it's absolutely okay when and if you do find a sport you love you may be the next Gertrude Tony or Venus listen to adventures of curiosity code every Monday from the Black Effect podcast network on the iHard radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and we're back on the bobbycast i'm glad you're back made to you made music about it yeah yeah what but you have decisions to make like what are you gonna put in the music because you just i'm in this my opinion you had that you had things unfairly said about you you're not saying this i'm saying this in my opinion you have things unfairly said about you yeah piss me off i'm sure it did it yeah it's a whole you go through all the stages agree with it right like oh my god and then you kind of get angry and like whatever and then

30:25i don't know like we've probably talked about this that day but um you know that that day was more about like your experience of of how to best navigate personally you know making decisions but dealing with an online kind of that kind of online vitriol is almost a skill you have to learn too or uh i don't know some techniques you have to learn for that what what have you found that's the most the most helpful so it never doesn't hurt but if i'm ever in a bad place or mentally slightly unwell place it hurts way worse so i i stay out of that area in times where i know that if for some reason there's some vulnerability in me for whatever reason something can go right at home at work maybe i didn't get enough sleep like i think my education and that is unless i'm ready to battle don't go into battle um about battling that's just reading it that's just going into it and uh with with me another thing is i always feel like everybody hates me

31:27if i spend any time online or in DMs or just generally i feel like everybody hates me but i have to use the rational part of my brain to know that's not true so i think i've developed that skill to go that can't be true realistically let's look at data because i always feel like i'm hated by everybody it's funny how it's funny how you can have ten or a thousand or two thousand comments and then like one percent of them would be negative and that like you almost like look for or something like you ignore the nine the non positives how did you do what things being said about you that you didn't feel were fair um i mean like i said there's some stages of it like i didn't come to this realization quickly or or immediately but in my case it didn't feel like and necessarily had a lot to do with me

32:29but it was presented as it was exactly you it was yeah and i think i think maybe i was presented or made out to be or became an archetype for any guy that had done any woman wrong during that period of time and like some of the stuff was just like what is this i didn't even make sense i can't think of anything i've told my head right now but i would read stuff like what like what what are you talking about you know and and like you say it doesn't not hurt but i i found that the sooner i could catch myself before i felt the hurt like i could read it and then maybe sometimes like you say like if you jet lagged or something like that you're more susceptible to it but i don't know anyone the rights negative comments i do i don't either i've never i can't imagine you doing it i've never done it and i can't imagine like what kind of a space you'd have

33:30to be in to get online and like want to write something about somebody like that and so i guess the thought process kind of started there and then every now and then i would see one like especially if it was not real vicious or something you know and then i'd click on the whoever said it you know and just have a look and just be like oh yeah it's okay you know that that looks like somebody gone through a tough time when the divorce was finalized how did that feel when it was finalized uh oh it's like pretty it's pretty surreal hey okay it all happens super quick like what do you mean um i mean from finding out that like that was what chaos you wanted to do to like getting a lawyer and having a prenump and having three calls or four calls or something with the lawyer and signing the documents in the parking lot of the rhymin in the rain to like going home

34:35you know like that all happened in three and a half four months some like that how did you find out she wanted a divorce she told me yeah sit down let's have a talk yeah yeah were you expecting that conversation i was not expecting that conversation nah and maybe that was me being naive i don't know but i definitely wasn't and talking about surprise but um yeah that whole time is such a blow hey like it almost feels like somebody else in just from where i'm sitting now like i just look back and i'm like oh my god it's just confused guy you know and i think even when i look back it like there was an interview that i did with you on uh when over for you came out and i look back at that guy doing that interview sometimes it pops up on whatever social media and i just look like i'm just like sad trying to make sense of where i'm at you know and that was um

35:38that was what that period was i don't know that i should have been doing interviews at that point if i'm being honest when i look at that guy i'm like oh my god like you you were not like hitting me with hardball questions or anything and i was just like i'm just like really sad so um yeah it was just a kind of a whirlwind life changing moment what do you tell your parents after she says you want to get a divorce you just calm hey guys this is what's happening yeah what do they say i think they were kind of confused too because they'd been they'd been there at the house with us like i make confused like timing but within like three months before that and so they were kind of confused too and and like i said they'd been married for 45 years they've been together since so like 16 and 14 or something so really don't really know much about breaking up and stuff like that um but uh yeah i mean super concerned for me and and obviously like wanting to make sure

36:40that i was okay i think that was the general the general sentiment did you write any music in the heart of your despair yeah some was it good well i say some so there was like four months there where i didn't really write but for the song over a few that was the only song that i wrote during that period and then which was a great song by the way you came out and played it at our show that night if we set up some kids oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um yeah thank you i i love that song and and and the way people have reacted to that song have kind of changed the way that i think about like how powerful music can be in a lot of ways but um yeah i definitely wrote a lot of songs during that time about it um or just about how i was feeling really um and a lot of that was like cathartic and a lot of that was just like trying to express things that i didn't know how to express um was any of a good though man i have a hard time

37:45thinking real sad songs are good see i only think sad songs are good that's the difference it's funny like it's funny you say that i i don't think that about other people's sad songs because i i think to me it's so easy like we could take any object in here and you and i could write a sad song about it at a higher level than a happy song i think if we had like 20 minutes to write it you know what i mean by that um and so i think as a songwriter i've always had that in my mind of like it seems like the easy way out um unless it's a really real thing like over for you is a really real feeling for me and the song things that we drink to um was you know my long time manager passed suddenly and i wrote that on the day of his um memorial service and so i do have these sad songs that mean a lot but generally on a normal day when i'm trying to express something i'm trying to find the positive in it or look for um at least a positive way to look at it if that

38:49makes sense with this new music and you wrote a lot about your last few years yeah right yeah because of how you were i feel unfairly written about did did you treat that a little more precious about what you were saying outwardly because you wanted it to represent the actual truth yeah i was i was really thoughtful about the songs that i chose for this record from that period of time you know obviously wrote more than 11 songs in the last three years but these through these 11 tracks to me they all say something important on that journey of the last three years so you know that was starting back in my hometown post wild i wasca trip time and uh yeah all the way through the kind of stages of it and and then you know finding the ground again and um and then you know building from there last question about that because i

39:53got a lot of other stuff to talk about yeah because you're just so annoyingly strikingly good looking it's just it's so annoying and i don't think people know that until they like see you in person it's annoying i'll say it okay thanks now it is you're a little taller than you should be you're a little more muscular than you should be and you're just strikingly good looking it's something that pisses me off thank you and good night yes i know i know final question though about that chapter what would you now what advice would you give you back then let's say when you and i were together that when it was happening yeah you've been through it what advice would you give you back then oh man it's so funny because i feel like you gave me the advice and and you know other people gave me advice too like this is going to be a time right now that you look back on and you're really grateful for and at the time it just seems impossible you know from like even

40:57every micro step of it i remember just that's real at that time even after like hanging with you and like a couple other other mates and like actually you know figuring out who like the real genuine people in my life where it was like it was like the sky was falling or like the walls are caving in like this town was just everywhere i went are you okay like i saw blah blah blah or red blah blah and um i just going back to my hometown and like just catching up with the old mates i could go to the pub you know here i'm a and i think so all right cool anyway did you see the nights game on the weekend and they just get on with it you know and you realize that Nashville feels like the center of the universe in a lot of ways you know in the country music order it is but the world's a big place you know and and where i was sitting in it i just needed to get out of that for a second and um starting there like the record starts there i think the perspective that you get that maybe sometimes you can only get with time and experience

42:00of life um and i i'm sure it always takes longer than you want it to um those things ring true i'm glad that i didn't go out and do a bunch of tell all things while i was in the midst of trying to work out how i was feeling and i'm also really grateful for where i'm at now in life and so it's hard to have any regrets anyway you're really good looking when you when you get single again where do you get to go to Australia i like what's the deal um well we were on tour we were on two of that whole time yeah yeah that's tough and yeah it wasn't really on the forefront of my uh priority list to uh get back into it you know so that took some time i texted you because i knew you were dating lacy i know i know lacy from a version of both of our past we didn't date or anything we worked together um but i was like you dating lacy and you're like why do you ask and as i can i lacy's awesome yeah she is awesome like that's super cool so uh when did

43:07you guys meet how'd you meet um it's not really like a crazy meeting story like we kind of knew each other shouldn't like doing radio shows and festivals and stuff like that but a couple of years we just kind of i don't know connected on that level and and enjoy each other's company and that's too vague of an answer i want to accept that i where did you like talk to her and go hey we should go on a date and give me some i'll say i have learned from my experience with my previous relationship and previous life that there is a level of detail that i think is healthy to share and then there's a level that's like really i agree to keep i completely agree unless you're talking to your friend and he wants something i guess now look lacy's a legend like she's a proper legend and she's actually really private so she doesn't do any press or interviews or anything like that and um we just put this song out together two broken hearts and uh we filmed a lot of content for it like a lot of content of us singing song together or doing life together and um yeah that was filmed by

44:12people we work with and and then we would send that to you know either we would cut it up or or someone uh a lady that works with virgin uh who i'm sorry with now i would cut it up and she would send it to she's like oh hey this little moment in between takes is like um it seems really cute can we should we should share that with the song live or something and and lacy and i would look at it and and we were both kind of decided ah that's a little bit too inside you know that's too much of us to share at this point and so we've been really intentional about sharing what we want to share and also like keeping what we want to keep to ourselves too yeah that's great where'd you go on your first date can you give me something like where ah like where do you take her on your first date oh man um i don't i'm not gonna stop i don't want to give it to you know okay well you can give i know you have something i know you'll keep going but i'm just gonna i'm gonna keep pushing back i really i really care about it and and i'm really grateful for where i're at right now too

45:18and i just don't want to i don't want to mess with it where'd you go on your first date with your wife we'd like to keep things private do you can play this game how long have you guys officially been together uh two years right you live together we do know yeah yeah yeah we've just seen Australia together too uh yeah okay yeah the bobby cast will be right back next monday our 2026 iHard podcast awards are happening live in south by south west this is the biggest night in podcasting will honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry and the winner is creativity knowledge and passion will all be on full display thank you so much iHard radio

46:21thank you to all the other nominees you guys are awesome watch live next monday at eight p.m. eastern five p.m. pacific free at beeps.com or the beeps app hi this is joe interesting host of the spirit daughter podcast where we talk about astrology natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life and i just sat down with a mini driver the iris traveller said when i was 16 you're going to have a terrible time with men actor storyteller and unapologetic aquarium visionary Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives and i find a lot of people with strong placements and aquariums like are misunderstood a son and venus and aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership he really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on different houses and different places but just an embracing of the isness of it all if you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology creativity and real life this episode is a must listen listen to the

47:28spirit daughter podcast starting on february 24th on the i heart radio app apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcast hey this is well zadams with by order of the faithfuls podcast alongside my fellow faithfuls and co-hosts tamer judge and lora's katanya the three of us have been watching the season of the traders and we've been inside that castle so we have insight unlike many others this season of the traders may be the best we've ever seen listen to by order the faithfuls on the i heart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts on the adventures of curiosity co-podcasts what is the right fit isn't what everyone expects in the case of the right fit elexplores movement confidence and belonging and learns that not all strength looks the same tennis is powerful fast focused in kind of fun strong swing Ella this women's history month story

48:30introduces kids to women who change sports by trusting themselves and moving differently a thoughtful episode about identity courage and helping kids discover where they truly belong so it's okay if i'm not quite sure what my thing is yet it's absolutely okay when and if you do find a sport you love you may be the next gertrude tony or venus at curiosity listen to adventures of curiosity code every monday from the black effect podcast network on the i heart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast this is the bobby cast what album do you have here this is hold it up for the camera please okay so i guess come in and they bring an album that means a lot to them and they tell us the reason why it goes into the ultimate collection so what do you have there this is the first key the open record that i ever owned and i got this

49:39my mom dragged me along to this gig in my hometown at the new castle workers club because my my grandma her mom was sick and so i got dragged along this gig and turns out this guy was playing and when i saw him come out on stage he was like all the old rock and roll that i grew up on all the old country music i grew up on all put together and he was just ripping on the guitar and it was just like this light bulb going off in my head and i thought i need to find out where that came from and uh that christmas my mom gave me this album on cd and i wore this thing out and uh i think i read the back about a million times and so kept seeing national tennessee and i think this record although i think maybe golden road might be my favorite Keith urban record this is the first one that pointed me towards him and ashville and probably led me down this path that has led me to sitting across from you here all these years later and um i still love this record actually and uh yeah it's the one i would like to uh we donating it to the

50:44collection yeah i appreciate that isn't it funny how music if you hear certain songs i read this book long time ago called i'm okay you're okay and it talks about the brain and how there's certain things that can be a smell smell and music are probably the two biggest ones yeah then when you smell something or you hear a song it triggers a part of your brain that even for just a split second puts you back into that place yes yeah where you were and as you're telling that story about being that kid i can imagine that when a song fires off from there you probably for a second feel what it feels like to be that kid again oh dude black top ends when when he played that at the uh whatever award show that was with brothers i was born the other day it was just like just like time port so good have you got to tell him that uh i don't know that i've gone into a gushy detail with him no but i think you know some a big big fan and he's done a lot for me especially as an Aussie man like he's like when i was out doing my first you know rounds at all the radio stations they're like oh you're from Australia as opposed to like i'm sure he was like

51:48country music from Australia that doesn't make sense you know but he kind of made it made sense and so you know being able to come in after that um yeah it's like a door already kind of you know nudged open a little bit i love Keith and the i was an australia once and it was christmas time and i didn't have him ready to go for christmas it was one of those times i was like okay and have a friend named Nikita who is from australia and she was playing with me a little bit and she was like you can come back and have christmas with my family and was a romantic at all and i was like i never been to australia i'll go so i didn't i always feel like i'm intruding so i didn't stay at her house with them even they had a room i stayed in a hotel nearby and it was crazy because christmas was in the summer in australia how good is an Aussie christmas in the sun it's crazy man it was like hot they were prawns you guys prawns yeah yeah i was that they were like people eating prawns for christmas and so that whole thing was happening and i had tweeted something and Keith saw my tweak

52:53because i think i walked up on that bridge there's the stairs you go up on the bridge what's that big bridge in Sydney Sydney have a bridge of course i guess yeah yeah so i go up on top of that oh you climbed the bridge to the top that's cool isn't it it's awesome i hate heights but it's awesome me too yeah but the winds blow in so you feel like you're going to die and so and so i'm up there i took a picture of that i posted it and Keith texted me and it's like are you an australia i was like yeah he was like we are too come over to because they happen to be back home yeah it's great so i went over to his and him and the cold together at the time went over to their like condo yeah in australia it was like a two layer and there were some australia and famous people there i know a single one of them because they were all famous in australia as much people walking around going i am i you know whatever and they were everybody was so nice do you remember any of them nothing but they were prominent okay yeah that's all i know is they were probably obviously they were Keith in the cold house too right but Keith would introduce me like this is somebody he's does this so yeah and i just remember thinking man like i'm right in the middle of australian celebrity culture and i don't really i don't understand it enough

53:59to respect it in the same way that i think of like if i get did bear girls the show once and he was talking about it all i have super famous people and really not knew they are and they're massive in their area but he's taking some like kpop artists out yeah no i did they have 10 billion fans with him but he's awesome like i love Keith urban and i love australia i don't know i just want to say that because i like your story i love it i've been around him a few times and he's always been like complete gentlemen i would love to hang with him probably someday but yeah his music's done his music's done enough i could probably make that happen yeah give me a story but let's see i'll make that i'm just gonna have to get it she has really great music i like her anyway because we work together in a capacity for a while yeah but her her what she's doing now and i hope you're okay me mentioning this we're talking about this it's it's distinct and it's such it's so it's quality it's so different and it's high

55:01quality stuff and so and i really like it like i'm a fan of the person that she's turned into yeah can i say that i full-heartedly agree yeah i'll read she's awesome and she's one of those artists too that as you know there's people in this town that like come here and work really hard and and and there's other people that come here and they've just got a gift and when she opens them out the saying it is just a gift and i'm so happy for the music she's making and i showed to that text you sent me to about digging a record and stuff and and she really appreciated that so yeah that's cool thank you no more i want i'm not gonna ask anything else i'm gonna like you gonna lock up on me over here sorry man i'll be too you got to learn something from what you got through that yeah unless it's your friend yeah you know yeah well hey look let's go pay pickable sometimes yeah and you give him a nugget are you are you touring this record in the states at all because they know i saw a bunch of like you're going if i feel like you're getting so many flyer miles going back to australia new zeland yeah we're doing a australian new zeland in my

56:05in june and for the album to steal down to it and then we're gonna do the states later in the year which if i tell you dice they'll probably change so when when they're confirmed or we'll let you know are you happy to life's good yeah like i said it's like she's been a roller coaster ride or haunted house maybe sometimes but um yeah it's good it's good to be alive right now it's good to have an australian summer and it's good to be back here um with the record that i feel really proud about uh and and the story to tell how do you pick eleven songs because like you said you've written so many more yeah what's that process like um it's kind of twofold in in the reasoning for me as a listener i feel as albums have got longer it's almost intimidating or something just to start it does that make sense to you like uh you probably get hit with music every day anyway but um i wanted to have a concise record eleven twelve songs and um how many you think you wrote though

57:05that you that you considered oh uh 50 maybe that i considered there's probably more that i wrote um but like 50 that had purpose you know but i also didn't want any double ups like i didn't want any well that song kind of already does that pick pick the winner you know um all the one that feels the most authentic and that's how i kind of got whittled down why'd you name it after your hometown i named it after my hometown because it's kind of where the story starts it's kind of where i felt like whatever this building of the next phase of my life started going home that Christmas and having that experience with the uh with the old mates and old places and family and and and that's the place that it all built from it's also kind of unique to i think for an Australian to be singing about place like that like there's there's some legends that have done it really well in Australia but there's only a handful and one of the things i love about america and americans

58:08is the pride of place that they have especially in country music and like texas is like the glowing example of pride of place and so to be able to have a song and articulate you know a love for a hometown like steel town and um there's another song on the record called land i love which is about Australia as a whole which uh we have a fellow named William Barton playing on he's a first nations Australian like one of the world's foremost didry do players and he sang and beatbox and chanted and and play didry do on this record and those two songs particularly i feel like ground the record in a way that um was really important and and special to me and so that's where the name came from i remember why i was bringing up to keep the urban story because when i was with him he was talking about country music in australia and he said that for a lot of his life country music in australia was wildly traditional and if you wanted to hear country music it would be like on what the a m band like what we consider like a m here there weren't like big mass stations and

59:11we're just playing country music that kind of had to cross over and get played on a pop station yeah in australia as that shifted at all still or do they have modernish country music stations and Sydney or in australia yeah so that's shifting just now hi like it's kind of you know as as Keith i'm sure when his stuff was like really kind of exploding you know with this record and the subsequent ones um yeah it just stayed super traditional down there and and for that reason stayed really niche like it was kind of you had to go to this um festival in tamworth which is kind of the that have shows everywhere and um was the kind of big moment for country music and now i feel like since i moved here 11 years ago every time i go back they love it more and more and i remember um i could sam hunt had that song body like a back road and i remember i heard that on pop radio somewhere and then i think the next time i went back i saw like this guy writing a Harley in Bondi and he was like blaring Florida Georgia line like as he drove through and i was

1:00:16like it's a change in around here to the point now where i think i think country might be the biggest touring genre in australia right now i guess just exploded and um and radios responded and obviously people are finding it on streaming and and the internet and all that kind of thing and it's quite amazing to see to the point where in my hometown on the weekend where you would never have found country music or you'd have to go to one of like two or three little niche places on the outside of town to play country music we played a festival to like 12 or 13,000 people with Laney Wilson on Saturday night and it was just like in my hometown to be there playing steel town for the first time Laney's there there's a couple other big acts too like flatland cavalry was there and Caitlin bots and it's just like this is i'm not happening you know it's exciting did any of your stuff get played on pop radio there it did yeah yeah it was um it was part of the i guess maybe around that time with the body like a back road and the and whatever the flat

1:01:19it was the Florida Georgia line song meant to be i think and then i think my song came out after those and i think the program was really like well if the other stuff worked maybe this will work too and and they did and thankfully it did and um the song day drunk ended up becoming my biggest song down there which is which is hilarious um it was the biggest song for a long time so yeah it was just i guess good timing maybe right music at the right time but it was really it was a really cool thing to to feel having left there to try to pursue this music that i didn't find anywhere around me to then be able to go home and then you know share it with people in the places that i kind of grew up in when did you get back into town uh like 48 hours ago or something yeah man you did a great job because you've shown no jet lag or really none but every time i've looked up i'm like what is that word that you know because i know you've been gone and i haven't saw you out social media and i was like man he's gonna be burnt on one end yeah yeah you killed it well thanks man there's no there's no

1:02:24exhaustion i appreciate i appreciate the uh come by every week the friendly space and um congrats to you man it's um it's exciting to see what you're doing i congratulate you congratulate me on my room well you're on the on Netflix now you're on the radio i can get on your wall yeah you got this sun that i thought you might have stolen but no it's a it's a replica the one from my hometown it is exactly that it's as bullet holes in it oh shit how many oh it's uh probably more now but there's probably like five or six yeah but that's a that's like a country thing to do on the weekend and it's not a it's not a personal attack right you guys don't have guns though there right like for us yes yeah everybody had guns all the time right but i'll show you uh i mean there's guns there for sure but you have to but don't know it's prevalent right yeah you have to go through like we had him at school yeah that's not that's not really a thing yeah like we had him in our cars or trucks and back right at that school where you could see them yeah yeah i'm not bragging or saying that's bad no it's just factual yeah yeah yeah no i didn't see guns at all

1:03:27growing up really my dad grew up out in the country and he had uh i think couple hunting rifles like a 22 and something else um and i remember the scope being around the house when i was a kid but they saw just a scope yeah they got rid of him uh before i was born or maybe just after i was born when uh the port author um message it happened um yeah i i don't know the exact time line of that but they had them and then they got rid of them and um yeah the gun laws are pretty tough 10 there well look we've done an hour you feel good about this i think so anything else you want to say um it's hard i'm gonna say something here yeah why you say that it's hard for me to to interview a friend it's harder yeah it's the absolute hardest thing to do because i know too much yeah well yes and i we have we would have a conversation all fair that would be yeah i know too much so then i don't want to put you in a place that makes you uncomfortable yeah but then i'm going

1:04:29well what does he really want to say and i don't want it so i hate interviewing friends yeah i do it because i like my friends yeah but it's the hardest thing for me to do is to interview somebody that i know a lot about and care a lot about yeah so what i appreciate saying that let me say this too so i've been away from this kind of press media any sort of interviews and this is kind of the first one i've done about the record and so i'm kind of not giving the most succinct planned answers or whatever um but now there's something about doing press that is so much more intimidating because it's almost like i see stuff and stuff gets clipped out of context and then blown up for the wrong reasons and stuff like that so i like i had a level of kind of i guess anxiety coming into this which had nothing to do with you or this space was just more i want to say something today that it's gonna everybody's looking for the best clip to post yeah and i just i guess i know that's gonna happen but and i've never really talked about any of this stuff before but um

1:05:31i uh i appreciate the chance to to do this with you man so um so thank you and uh uh and good night fair enough uh you guys record march 20th i'm going for memory you got a good memory yeah kicking us boom march 20th i i hope people strain the crap out of it i hope they would go to all your shows and whenever you announce the American part of it we'll be sure to share that on the radio show on all this i love you i'm glad you were here and great job not seeming tired like i think that's that's the whole thing great job because it's not for a minute they drive like you're the master of that come on yeah no that's true too i'm not a long day i'm gonna tell you yeah anybody else but you i think i'd have been been dragon so i knew this would be easy all right there he is the great Morgan Evans thanks for listening to a bobby cast production next monday our 2026 ihard podcast awards are happening live at south by south west

1:06:34this is the biggest night in podcasting we'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry and the winner is creativity knowledge and passion will all be on full display thank you so much ihard radio thank you to all the other nominees you guys are awesome watch live next monday at 8 p.m. eastern 5 p.m. pacific free at beeps.com or the beeps app hey this is well zadams with by order of the faithfuls podcast alongside my fellow faithfuls and co-hosts tamarajudge and loris katania the three of us have been watching the season of the traders and we've been inside that castle so we have insight unlike many others this season of the traders may be the best we've ever seen listen to by order the faithfuls on america's number one podcast network ihard followed by order the faithfuls and start listening on the free ihard radio app today then she says have you seen a photo of my son and i'm like who is this person

1:07:35welcome to the boys and girls podcast a ranged marriage is basically a reality show and you're auditioning for your soulmate and who's judging only your entire family i sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition hoping to find love the right way and instead i found chaos comedy and a lot of cringe listen to boys and girls on the ihard radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast when segregation was a lot one mysterious black club owner Charlie Fitzgerald had his own rules segregation in the day integration at night it was like stepping on another world was he a businessman a criminal a hero Charlie was an example of power they had to crush him Charlie's place from Atlas Obscura and visit Myrtle Beach listen to Charlie's place on the ihard radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts this is an ihard podcast guaranteed human