525: Risky Business (from "Killer Relationship")

0:00If one of the two partners dies, the other partner gets it 100%. Yeah. And then they can do with it whatever they want. And I'm like, oh, there it is. Well, and Randy even says, when I read that, it was a gut budget. It felt like Jerry signed his death warrant when he signed that piece of money. And he effectively did. But you don't think about that going in in seven years from now. No one ever thinks they're going to get murdered. Hi, Julie. Hello, Patrick Hines. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're getting our Wonder Woman platform boots on. We're going to dance in. That is the best way you could possibly say it. What are we talking about today? We are talking about welcome to our bonus episode. This is our 12th of the year. We're back with our friend, Faith Jenkins, with the show Killer Relationship. Friend being we covered this before and really liked her. I had drinks with her last night. I was waiting for you at the party. I was going to dance with you. I was going to dance with you. I was going to dance with you. I was going to dance with you. I was going to dance with you. I was going to dance with you. I was going to dance with you. I was waiting for you at the bar of the entire world. Where's our friend, Julie? Oh my God. You know what? That could absolutely happen one day. Season 4 episode 2, this is called Risky Business. This is on Pekak, Hulu, and Oxygen. Jerry was such a nice man.

1:01Such a good person, good-hearted. Never would hurt his soul. He wanted his own business. Something to make money. Jerry was gay. He was always searching for love. And it just didn't happen. A vicious murder. 32 times he was stabbed. This is personal. Some sort of personal rage. Was it someone Jerry just met? He was on multiple dating apps. Jerry was looking for a new roommate. Could this be somebody he brought home? A prison pen pal. We have an inmate who has a criminal record that's been released to e-come over to Jerry's house. Or perhaps an old friend. Our victim here is a guy named Jerry Moore. He was 46 years old. And people I have never heard this expression before. But now I've heard it so much in the last month. Never met a stranger. Oh, you've never heard that? That's a very nice thing. Then I heard it. And now it's like in every single thing. Now it's everywhere. He's very kind. Gregorius has two cute dogs in an old photo. Yeah, he's a knack for putting people in these. Yeah, and I thought that was such a wonderful compliment

2:03from Faith, Jenkins, saying he has a knack for putting people at ease. What did a lovely thing to be said about you? I wonder if people would say that about me. What would they say? You look, he's got a knack for, what do I have a knack for, girl? No, I think you would people at ease, but still high energy at the same time. And I think there's like, when people say putting people at ease, I think there's this image of like, you kind of speak like a yoga teacher. And I think you can put people at ease. I'd be very welcoming and outgoing to them without doing the yoga instructor voice. There are definitely people that think they're going to like me. And it's not that they don't like me, but I can tell right away when I'm just too much for somebody. It happens. Well, that's called reading the room and knowing your audience. Correct. And a lot of people don't know how to do that. I know. Not this guy. Well, look, it's January 27th, 2014. We're going to marry at a Georgia. It seems like a beautiful little gay town. Yeah, well, poor Pam. I know. Calls 911 about her neighbor, Jerry. And she's so scared and she's so worried. You could hear it in her voice. It's one of those things where we've heard so many fake

3:03911 calls over the years. But when you're hearing somebody really suffering, like they're learning in real time what's happening. Like she says, it looks like her friend's house has been robbed. There's blood everywhere. When we do eventually see this murder scene, like this poor woman who by the way loved this guy so much walking into this scene must have been like it's a thing you never get over. Yeah, she says, oh, God, please hurry. You can just tell. Like I guess when we've heard so many shitty ones, you just know when it's real and when it's not. Well, the whole thing that people forget about 911 calls is that the second it starts to ring, it's recording. Yeah, yeah. When the people aren't doing anything and the operator answers and then you're screaming, we got your fucking number. You're going to jail. It's one of those things I kind of want to keep. Because I want people to get caught lying. Yeah. You know, if they're being shitty and whatever, but yeah, that's a thing everybody. Yeah. So investigator Edward is here. He says, as soon as I walk into the living room, I see blood everywhere. As I step further and looked over the edge of the couch, that's when I observed the victim lying face down in a pool of blood.

4:03Jerry is laying face down in a pool of blood. He's got stab wounds on his back. And when they lift up his shirt, he's got like stab wounds all over his body. And like Edward is like this, this poor man suffers. Yeah, we see way too many photos. There's not enough blurring. I, Faith Jenkins, I really enjoy you. Yeah. Thank you for the good work. But the producers and editors of this, we see way too much. There's more blood in this crime scene than I've ever seen. It's really bad. It's really, really bad. And we don't need to see as much to understand that. No. You know, yeah. I mean, I'm not like being victim focused. This is too much. Yeah. So we are told this was a crime of rage. The guy who ever did this was really angry. There was no forced entry. So Jerry had to have let whoever did this into the house. Right. So let's go back to June 3rd, 1967. It's a boy. Jerry is born in Ohio. He's a Gemini. Judy is his stepmother. And she's here. And I just, I just love this. Whenever we are dealing with it, a gay person of like about my age and we go back to their origin story, I'm like, how bad was it?

5:0560s in Ohio. Yeah. So, you know, she tells us he was super outgoing and happy. We'll do anything for anybody. Two years old, his parents split up. And his mom had primary custody. But he was been weekends and holidays with Judy and his dad. And his dad and Judy was like, we were the best of friends. And like, when you're like a little gay boy, that can go the other way easily. Yeah. I mean, Jerry called her mom. Yeah. They were besties. They really loved each other. His family, thank God, was incredibly supportive of him coming out. They always accepted him, loved him. Or at least Judy did. Like, we didn't, we never hear about the dad. We never really hear anything else about them. Yeah. We see pictures of the dad and I'm like, I'm not to judge a book by its cover. But like, that could have gone, I don't like to hear that the dad was like, you're still my son. I'm going to focus on Judy. Okay. You're still my son. Oh. He had a knock for business, Jerry did. He was super smart, very responsible with money. He was a big saver and his goal from very young is to start his own business. Yes.

6:05He came out in his 20s. Judy loved and supported him. Despite the love and support from his family, Jerry finds life in Orville, Ohio, stifling. With a population of just under 9,000, the small town just isn't big enough for the life Jerry wants. So at age 29, he moved to Atlanta, Georgia. At 29 years old, Jerry moved to Atlanta, Georgia. And Randy Doe little is here. Oh, I love him. The name fits him so much. Totally. Like when I saw Fiona on the Ollie's Angels website and her name was already Fiona, I was like, that is such a Fiona. Totally. She's such a little Fiona and she is. He is such a Randy Doe little. What he is. He is. But he also tells us that Atlanta is the gay mecca of the East. Never heard that before. Okay. Look, I don't like pitting cities against each other. Or, hence my stance on pizza. I'm not participating in that conversation. Especially when it's something awesome, like pizza or being gay. But I feel like I'm not going to pit cities against each other.

7:05But I do feel like there are other locations that would say. Hold on a second. Like New York, Providence Town, Miami. Yeah. I'm not calling you Atlanta a small town. I don't, I'm not calling you to small city. But you know, I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. Lord knows I love you. But I love knowing that there are cities that I, as a gay human being, wouldn't. I would never think that Atlanta would be home of phobic. But I don't think of it as like a gay destination. And I love knowing that I'm wrong. It's all I'm saying. I love that too. But to say the and not a. Yeah. It was a choice, Randy. And I love you, girl. Girl, drip drop is back. It has been a hot summer, girl. I have been definitely needing the help of the hydration. That's where the drip drop comes in. So drip drop is doctor developed. Yeah. Proven fast hydration. Because hydration isn't just something you do. Like when you're feeling that you're dehydrated, you should be hydrated all the time. You know what we love more than hydration science. And drip drop uses science based formulas for rapid hydration. So you feel results fast getting three times the electrolytes of the leading sports strengths.

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9:08Oh, there's a bar in house kitchen. Randy would love. There's that because we're getting out of the telephone people. So Randy meets Jerry in 1996 at the local country western gay bar and you are referencing flaming saddles. Yes. Where the bartender stands on the bar. They dance on the bar in cowboy boots. It is the cutest. They have hats. They have hats. It is cash only. So just be aware. It is cash only and it like it stinks like it stinks like vodka and drugs in there and beer which is like I love that fucking smell. I love the smell of a dive bar. I'm saying. And that's what it is. It is it is 100% a dive bar. Sometimes I'm like I love the smell of cigarettes and beer like there's a part of me that's like such. I know. Yeah. There's something about it that just like reminds me of like. Well, it's like there's a bar in the that used to be the me packing district on the corner of 10th and 17th called Red Rock West was a bipolar. I was a regular there. So all the bartenders were my friends. It was the bar that we yes because coyote ugly wasn't really based on coyote ugly.

10:09It was really based on this bar and also hogs and heifers and hockers and heifers right. And so they would get on that bar at midnight and they would do like the they pour the water pitches over themselves to that Melissa. That's her song. Awesome. I don't know how I'm gonna survive. Would you ever work if flaming saddles like for fun for sure. It's it's a great part. It's hard to do now because I'd have to stay up so late. Oh God. I was trying to get a bar. I was trying to get a but when I was a bartender I wanted to work at a gay bar but I was not hot enough. I wasn't like hot enough for like straight enough. Come on. This I'm saying this with full like I this is not like a you're not fishing. Self-effacing moment. I mean I I was not hot enough but like also a lot of the guys who work at gay bar the guy who didn't hire me. My resume says where they know who knows they probably still work there maybe gay hot gay men don't get ever less hot. They just stay hot. Anyway Randy is at this country western gay bar country and western.

11:13When I came off the dance floor he came over there and grabbed my shoulder and spun me around he goes I want to see who is this queen in the red Wonder Woman boots. That started our friendship. I have to meet the queen and the red Wonder Woman boots Jerry talking about Randy saying that so amazing. Yes. Yes. Yes. And Jerry and Randy were best of friends totally platonic. Jerry was always looking to like settle down with a partner and so we learned that like Jerry's crushing it in the business world. He's not like he's kind of striking out in the love zone as so many of us do. And he also moves away from the tech world which is what he thought he was going to do for business but he dives into real estate and he's buying and flipping houses in 1996. I mean and apparently he like does killer business like he's crushing that market. So in 2000 you can tell it's like a very like sharp business. And that whole flipping house is crazy because like you got to know how to get the cheap materials and like buy that and then make a product. I don't know anything about that. Me either. I really I can't even. You know what?

12:13It's like a lot of us doing that and see how it goes. I can't even begin to imagine. No. What it's like. It's also like could I fall asleep to a show like that? Uh huh. Yeah because it's like safe there are no explosions. You know it's like like make me up. Could I talk about a show? Could I be like oh that's not how. No. I don't know anything. Anything I would fall for all of it. All of the magic words like oh what happened in one day like no it didn't. Of course. Or like and when they read this is different than flipping but I think when they give you they redo your house. Yeah. Like either have to pay for all the furniture or there's some catch isn't there. I don't know. It's like it's too good to be true. Like it's all of those shows are such comfort shows for me. Well yeah. That's how hunters and all of that. Okay. But there's there's the one where it's like you I can't remember what it's called but it's with I can't even think of the host names but like they're either going to love it or listed as what it's called. Who's chip and Joanna? Chip and Joanne I don't know there. They are H.E. TV staples. And he like OGs right? Yeah and I think maybe they broke up and they live in Waco.

13:14I'm not really sure. This is as much as I know. We're off the rails. I mean. So for 10 years he's a Jerry is very very successful. He's flipping dozens of properties. Yeah. So by 2006 he buys his own place 20 miles north of Atlanta. And this is where he meets neighbor Pam and she's like he worked from home. He was always fixing up like let the gay is moving to your neighborhood. They're going to up property values. We learned that that Louisville dog. Yeah and watch that will engraze episode about it. Literally and so they were just the best of friends. Pam and Jerry she loved him. Yeah so Jerry had a roommate. Jerry posted ads and he announced someone to rent the room. His name is Ross. Ross and Jerry hit it off as roommates and as friends. Ross burned he was also gay and he answered a sign that Jerry put up about wanting a roommate. Because Jerry lived in his split level house. Do you have an opinion about split level homes? I love them. I'm completely indifferent. I... What do you mean like having a second floor? No split level is you walk in and there's a stairway that goes down in a stairway that goes up. And it's like two complete, it's like two complete living spaces.

14:16Well there are like two camps about people who love these houses. Some people hate split levels. Why? I don't know. I got no opinion. I know. I love the one time Steven I thought about buying a house like 15 years ago in DC. We looked at a split level. I was super into it. Yeah. Why do you love it? Because it feels like when you walk into a regular house you're kind of like in the entrance and like in a split level you can kind of see everything. It feels like apartment living to me kind of. Sure. And it feels like more like an open concept. And I don't know. I just love the idea of like the downstairs and the upstairs are like co-equal, habitable living spaces. So what's the problem for the haters? I don't know. I think that people want like tradition. They want like a traditional home. Okay then buy one. It's not the R.H.E. He sure is going to be amazing. It's going to be really good. I have no opinion on this. I want everyone to be happy. But people really do have a job. Okay. Oh God. I know. Queue the Facebook group. Yeah. So I want to hear like why you hate it so much. But Ross and Jerry quickly go into business together.

15:17The bakery that Ross worked at, the owner needed to sell it. So Ross approached Jerry and he said you know what you consider investing in a bakery. Jerry was open to it. Jerry handled the money side of everything. And Ross was the baker and kept the operations going throughout the week. Ross brings us to Jerry knowing that Jerry has his business acumen like do you want to buy in a bakery and Jerry says yes. And it goes great like they're doing so well. I'm like who doesn't love a gay bakery? And they own a 50-50. They own a 50-50. They shut it down for a little while so they can add a brand new cake decorating room. That is the gayest thing I've ever heard in my life. And it shows up businesses booming. Yes. And they're expanding, they're renovating, like everything's coming up bakery. I'm like Steve can we get a cake decorating room? I know. You can do so much space. Magical with that being. Yeah. Can you get that thing with that steady hand? With a steady hand and it always smells like cake in your house. I want a cake decorating room. You can get candles after that.

16:17That's not really my favorite scent in a home. Yeah. When I walk into a bakery like there's very specific like Italian bakeries have a very specific smell. Yeah. Carvelle has a very specific smell. Yeah. Totally. And after 13 after seven years of being roommates, Ross decides to move out and get a place of his own and he gets a townhouse that's close to the bakery. And then like right soon thereafter, Jerry's found dead in his home like a year later. So we are back to an investigator Edward. This is his very first case as lead detective. And I might might know here's like it's always going to be something like it's some day at some doctors first brain. It's always somebody's first day. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like sometimes you're on a plane with a pilot who not you. But sometimes people are on planes with pilots whose first day it is. That's not their first day like flying a commercial. I mean, they probably isn't that training. We don't like my friend Greg the pilot who I became friends with because I cried about flying on the broadcast ones when Mike and I went to Puerto Rico and it was horrible. And then you reached out and now we've become friends and he's been like my emotional support

17:17pilot. He answered all my questions and he's lovely. And he came to the Hamilkast rap party. Stop. Right the pilot like my hero. I said, Liz and Manuel Miranda. Yes, true. I don't know who's who's like helped me more in my life. Greg the pilot or I live in that one. No, they're both amazing people. But yeah, I might ask him now because he's so, so kind and patient with me and all of my questions. But like I'm assuming that like the like the brain surgeon is like there's don't get to work up to that. You must you they're not just like great job as in your exams. Here's this couple go get that tumor out of that guys. Well, everything I know from the pit. Yeah. Probably hopefully Jack Abbott would be there. Yeah, as the attending because you know the pits of teaching hospital. Of course I know. I love Jack Abbott. Okay. Anyway, Edwards at first case is lead detective. The pressure is on and gives us a little too much of like I really want to solve it to prove to my bosses. We all do. But I'm like, can you solve it for also the justice of it? Not just to prove that your boss is like to the right thing giving you the promote. Yeah, not about you, man.

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19:18Head to chime.com slash TCO. That's chime.com slash TCO. Sign up now. 10 minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank, banking services and chime card provided by Chimes bank partners, qualifying direct deposits required, terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details. So the house was also for fingerprints. They took Jerry cell phone, which they say is an important piece of evidence. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. The cops immediately want to speak to Ross because they lived together for seven years and they run a business together. Obviously, they want to talk to this guy. They bring Ross downtown. This man couldn't care less. And he doesn't bring a lawyer or cause a lawyer or anything. No, and they're talking about his friend and business partner and roommate of seven years rot. Doesn't shed a tear. He is decidedly not beside himself. You think he'd be beside himself. He's absolutely not. No, look, you can tell me that after seven years of running a business together, maybe wasn't all sunshine and roses.

20:18Maybe they weren't even friends anymore. We're going to learn that their lives had sort of like they weren't as much friends anymore. They were kind of just running the business together. I can understand that if there's like bad blood between them, you don't have to cry if somebody that you used to like and now you don't like anymore is dead. But like have some emotion about this. This is such a violent gruesome attack that to feel no emotion is on. And also, it's like he just moved out. You could have been there, girl. Yeah. So though, immediately distancing himself from Jerry, he's trying to make it seem like they barely knew each other. Even though they lived together seven years in their business, he's like, yeah, we lived together. But my room was over there and his was way over there. And I'm like, Ross. Now, the one thing Edward says, don't patronize me, Ross. Don't patronize me, Ross. Edward says, when it comes to stabings, I'll always look at somebody's hands and I'm looking to see if there's any kind of injuries to show there was any kind of fight or struggle. I looked at his hands and I didn't notice anything on his hands. This does not have any. That sounds like a kind of move.

21:19We've heard him say it. Well, my, my, my. So there's no defensive wounds on Ross. So so far, they're just questioning him. Obviously, he's in the mix of people that could be considered. Well, Ross is like, you know who you guys should be talking to, not definitely not me, but Randy, the queen with the Wonder Boots, the Wonder Woman Boots, and this guy named Wayne. So we learned about this guy, Wayne. Wayne was broke according to Ross, homeless according to Ross, would crash on Jerry's couch and would like borrow his car. Jerry was very, very, very nice to Wayne is what Ross is trying to paint as a negative. Yes. Is really what's happened here? Correct. So like Wayne is a guy who was like in the house all the time, maybe he like knew Jerry's patterns is coming and going, like, this is a guy we got to talk to. Yeah. And Ross is trying to paint him as this like scary dangerous dude. Yes. So the cops obviously want to speak to Wayne. We're trying to track him down using cell phone information and Jerry's phone was not password protected. No. I was like, girl, we're redoing that in 2013, probably 2013 could be yesterday or in a

22:21past like I know, but like your phone should not be password protected. Like that's such a me move. You know, like I just like never set up face ID or whatever. I guess now it's different. No, I don't have face ID on you. Don't know. I do. I know a face ID for everything because I forget all my passwords. You kind of well, yeah. You know what I mean? Like if you're, you know, in a place where maybe there's a lot of like unrest. Oh, what do you mean? Or something like if you might run into law enforcement. Oh, I would suggest turning it off because they can just put it up to your face. That's true. And they do not have a constitutional right to go through your phone. They don't. By the way, you can say no. If they say unlock your phone, you can say no. Right. So that's a vote to not use face ID so that you can sort of keep that or like take your glasses off because Lord knows when I'm at the beach and I'm trying to use my face ID. It doesn't work. No. So they tracked down Wayne and his phone records show that he made a lot of calls to this woman named Michelle. So we hear audio of the cops talking to Michelle. Michelle's a wreck. Yes. I know Wayne. No, that's my friend. I know when I saw a different person.

23:22That's how me and him that he was a breeder and I worked at the Rosen. Who's the last time you called him right? I spent the wedding every second day just about one more. What the heck happened? What did he do? What did he do? It was a greeter at Verizon. I love that. I feel like I would be such a good greeter. You would be. And the problem with being a greeter is being a bartender. It's like the day that you're in a bad mood. It's a really shitty day to go to work. But I would be like, good morning. Good morning. Yeah. I'm already at 4 in the morning when I'm walking gold and I'm saying good morning to people on the side of the box. They don't want it. Can we get a counter? I know. How many times you say that? I know. I know. Second time. Because in my neighborhood, I live around a lot of bars. And there's like a lot of drunk people are going home. Yeah. And they do not want to be good morning to buy the happy gay guy. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they want to keep the party going. There are definitely days that I'm like, gays, get your acts together. Keep it going. I don't take out gold in it for the morning. And the three. There's also a bike rack, like a city bike rack on my block.

24:22So if I'm walking golden year it, they're drunkenly trying to unlock the bike to get them up. I like. I just like, they'll be leaning over trees puking sometimes. Okay. I was trying to be supportive. I know. I know. I know. Keep the party going. Yeah. But be safe about it, everybody. Just like, drink. Don't drink to excess all the time. So Michelle is a wreck. And I feel bad. I love that she's at 100. But I also feel bad saying that because I'm not trying to make a joke because she's really very concerned. And she's like, I speak to Wayne every fricking day is what she said. And she's like, what happened? What did he do? But she's also like, you know what? We do talk every fricking day. But I actually haven't spoken to him in 48 hours. Like something must be wrong. Something's wrong. And Wayne has been like really stressed out lately. His family isn't helping him with all of the shenanigans that he's going through in his life. He's always crashing with friends like Wayne is in like kind of a desperate place. So Ann hasn't talked to his bestie in 48 hours. Yeah. And Michelle says kind of with a chuckle like he doesn't not handle stress well. She goes, he's like a basket case. And the cops are like, when you say basket case. Right. Right.

25:23Like a basket case of the night. Like tell me more. What do you mean exactly? And she's like literally offers to call him right now. Yeah. And she's very, very concerned about her friend. Yeah. Which is like a lovely quality. So they leave it to Michelle. He doesn't answer when she calls. Michelle's going to try to get in touch with them and like stay in touch with the cops. The police have to notify Jerry's family. Everyone is a fucking rest. Jerry's mom calls Randy to tell Randy Jerry's best friend that Randy was killed in a home invasion. And so Randy, the Wonder Woman queen with love, I say, thinks that maybe Jerry was targeted and killed by a bigot who hated gay people. When Jerry said, well, I'm going to be placing ads for a roommate again. But it really felt like it's possible that some random person without intentions of renting a place didn't like gay people and was going to answer the ad. Then do harm to them. I was afraid that maybe somebody who responded to the roommate posting might have killed them. But the cops says, Randy was afraid that Jerry might have brought the wrong person home.

26:26Yeah. Very interesting to me that they are trying very hard not to slut shame Jerry, which is great. Yeah. And appropriate and true because like we know that Jerry was looking for love, but it did worry me at this point because I'm like, it did seem like Jerry was meeting a lot of men in various ways. Okay. Which I am supportive of and like go out and find your people. Again, just do it safely. Just do it safely. But if he is inviting strangers into his home, it does make you vulnerable. It's the grinder of it all. Sure. Grindr is wonderful. I'm glad that it exists for anybody who wants to use it. But it can be unsafe to invite strangers into your house or to be going in this room. Yeah. You know what else is to like ubers and lifts. Yes. Yeah. And used to be don't get into a car with somebody you don't know and now it's all we do. And now we call the stranger to our house to get into the car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, they ask Randy, the friend about this guy Wayne, right? Michelle and whatever. Randy has nothing but good things to say. He said that's a fucking loot. Now, who told you that that ship bag Ross? Yeah. And he was like, Jerry was super nice. Wayne was very grateful for Jerry's kindness because his family sucked and he just had like

27:28he loved his chosen family and his friends. And Jerry was one of them like, what's the problem? Yeah. So both of Wayne's friends totally vouched for Wayne and the only person who's talking shit about Wayne is Ross. Right. So 36 hours later, the autopsy comes in. There's no foreign DNA on Jerry's body, but they're talking about like the savagery of this crime. 32 times he was stabbed. That amount of stab wounds. You know, somebody really had some hatred for him and really wanted to make sure he was dead. Somebody really fucking hated this guy. Yeah. Somebody wanted to make sure he was dead and wanted to make sure he suffered. I guess like he doesn't have any enemies. I know. This is like the nicest cowboy lion dancing gay guy you're ever going to meet. Well, as of this minute. Yeah. So three days later, Wayne's friend Michelle tracks him down and she's like, girl, like what happened? The cops are looking for you. And Wayne's like, I will have to go to them immediately and see what's going on. Oh my god, my dear friend Jerry. I am rooting for Wayne. Me too. And we hear audio of the interview and the cops even now are like, Wayne was really fidgeted. They're like yelling at him.

28:28They're being like really nice to him. No, because I think they think this is the guy. Like he's a guy that's in desperate circumstances. Doesn't have a place to live. Anything could have happened. But in reality, who wouldn't be a nervous wreck when he's in these not great circumstances? He doesn't have a lot of support, but he also does have a lot of support. And one of his dear friends who showed him a lot of kindness was viciously murdered. I'd be pretty fidgety too, guys. Totally. Getting? Yeah. At least someone's showing emotion on like Ross. Right. He's like the first one minus Randy. So they ask Wayne about Sunday because Sunday was the day that Jerry was killed. He's with his friend, Tibber. They go out to dinner and get somewhere on 1130. Give the Wayne, give them Tibber's number. And this is where we learn from Wayne that the last person that Jerry spoke to was an inmate in Kentucky named Chris. Girl, Homestown was back last time. We had chicken, pesto, quesadilla. Is it the one that you cooked? Is it the one that you put in the oven or the one that you put in the micro? So this is the one that Steve cooked. We're having like a roasted chicken thing when I get home that I'm going to like take out of the package, put it in the tin that it comes in and put it in the oven and then

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30:33That's homestead.com slash TCO for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life. Homestead.com slash TCO must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Okay. Another bag, help the person in your house that does most of the cooking. Girl, tis the season two get candles, quince is back. Tis the season to love quince all the time. Honestly, I have the accessories, I have the bag. I have the jogger little set. I have about a million candles from them. I've got to jeans, I'm obsessed. Say too, I have the jeans too. Quince makes elevated everyday essentials using premium materials like mom, goalie and cash mirror, organic cotton and washable silk. These designs are timeless, thoughtfully crafted and they are made to be worn again and again. I've had my quince jeans for like a couple years now. They are so soft. They're so good. I love them so much. But here's the thing, everything at quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands and they tell you, like they tell you on the website, they have like 80 bucks crossed out. And then at quince price, it's the best. And it's not just closing candles though we love those the most. They also do bath to kitchen essentials to thoughtfully designed furniture. You can get your furniture from quince.

31:35And it's all just really classy and durable. It's good quality. I told you about the lady you feel fancy. This lady showed up at one of my shows with a sign that said, thanks, it's quince. Because she was getting complimented too much. It's to do thanks, it has pockets. Thanks, it's quince. Hi, hi, hi, hi, hi. So fam, find fall pieces you'll reach for most at quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash TCO. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's QU, I and C E dot com slash TCO. Don't forget the candles. They smell so good. And the couch. Now we learn that Jerry was like pen pals with a lot of male prison inmates. Like Jerry was really putting himself out there. Yeah, which like on one hand is a very kind compassion at the end of you. Sure. But when there is a vicious murder, it makes sense to maybe think, okay, wait a minute. Right. Let's look into who he was speaking to. Well, get sky Chris. Wayne said this Chris guy was supposed to be getting out of prison in September of 2013, which was just three months before the murder.

32:38And I said, why are you so concerned? And he said, because he talked about that when Chris was going to get out, Chris was supposed to come visit Jerry. This guy Chris had gotten out of prison three months before for some violent crime we're told. We're not told what it was. Yeah. And the plan was that this guy Chris was going to come and stay with Jerry. And Wayne never liked this. He was always concerned for Jerry. I guess he knew what Chris had done that we're not told. Yeah. So Wayne was like, I was always really, really concerned about this. So eventually, hooray Wayne is cleared. Everything checks out. Obviously, he's a nervous wreck because he misses his friend and he's traumatized. But now Chris is the main suspect. And I'm like, okay, sorry, am I allowed to ask this like Jerry, were you looking for love and like prison like like penpal websites? Because I don't know. I don't know either. And I just want Jerry to have a boyfriend because he seems so nice and he's so successful. I know. He's supposed to just like go to the bar with Randy and like find someone. Yeah. Yeah, we don't really get into this, but it's not unreasonable for the cops to be like, oh, someone who was convicted of a violent crime and then was released a few months before

33:41this vicious murder. And was supposed to come and stay with him. They trapped this Chris guy down. He's living in Kentucky. The investigators called the sheriff's in Kentucky. They know this Chris guy and they're like, he lives with his parents. He's got a girlfriend. And then we learned that since Chris got out of prison, there was no contact with Jerry. So Chris is not the guy either. Yeah. So they lose interest in him. Like no real movement on the case. By February 13th, 2014, Jerry's friends have a memorial for Jerry Wayne Spoke. I know. Guess who to show up? Both Randy and Pam brought it to my attention that Ross Fern never showed up. That started raising a little bit of suspicion. Like here's this guy that lived with him for seven years, owns a business with him. And yet he doesn't show up to his memorial service. Ross, this motherfucker didn't show up. He's roommate of seven years and still current business partner. I know. Didn't show up. And I'm like, okay, well, what the hell is that about? The only thing I could think in this moment was giving him the benefit of the doubt. If like the business relationship had really soured and gone really bad and they fucking hated each other, like maybe, but I don't care.

34:44No, I know even even still look, I can think of a handful of people who's memorial services. I'm not fucking sure. I have a list of people that I'm not going to. Also, we entered that shared and do already do not admit lists in the funeral. So I need to make sure you have that list. I have my grandfather that had the written note. Yes. Welcome here on Italian. I want to know who was on Show Do's list. I'm kind of dying to know. Yeah, I'm not going. And I don't, some people are not welcome here. That's my grandfather's Sicilian coming out. I love it. I know this is a vicious, vicious murder. Yeah. And if you really had nothing to do with it, you put your shit aside because what happened, you did live with them for seven years. There was something there once. Yes. You go as a decent human being. You piece of shit. The thing about this guy Ross is that whether he did this or not, he seems like the fucking work. He's like a miserable, crumogin of an old gay guy. Well, guess what, Jerry, I think, agreed because he wanted out of this business. Yes. And his relationship with Ross was not good at all. And now it's starting to come out. But Ross didn't tell the cops any of this. Yeah. But everyone else told the cops this.

35:45That's the thing because Ross had sat down with the police. Didn't never mention that Jerry wanted out of the business. He mentioned that they weren't really friends anymore. Right. But Ross is keeping secrets. Well, Randy with the boots is describing the relationships of the cops as dysfunctional. Yeah. Like Randy's telling the truth. It wasn't just that they sort of fell out of whatever dynamic they had. It was a very negative dynamic. And things were bad at work. It was bad at home. Like they're still living together. Like what a miserable existence that would have been. And so Jerry wants Ross to buy him out to the tune of $35,000 and Ross is downright refusing. Which doesn't seem like that much money for a fancy gay bakery with a whole cake decorating room Ross. One of them is good with money and an eight Ross. Right, right totally. But there's more. Randy the Dancing Queen was the executor of Jerry's estate. Yeah. So he got to see Jerry's will and his business contract with Ross. Did you see the name of the LLC? No. Operating agreement of best dang bakery around LLC.

36:46Stop there. You know that was Jerry's idea. But we learn in this operating agreement, it says. One of the provisions said if either party is deceased that this surviving party will gain full and free control of the bakery. Maybe Ross sees this as his way of getting Jerry out of the picture. The other partner will gain full and free control of the bakery. That's a bullshit thing to have in an operating room. But there it is. So like Ross, if you die, you don't want your family to get your like, I don't know. It just seems crazy. Well, if one of the two partners dies, the other partner gets it 100%. Yeah. And then they can do with it whatever they want. And I'm like, oh, there it is. Well, way and Randy even says, when I read that, it was a gut project, felt like Jerry signed his death warrant when he signed that piece of work. And he effectively did. But you don't think about that going in in seven years from now. No, whenever things are going to get murdered. Right. You know what I mean? Detective Phil says to us, money, love, power revenge in almost every homicide you can toss one of those at it.

37:46And now we have money. Well, I would also throw power and a little revenge in there as well. It's not just money. Yeah, yeah. So the cops speak to Ross again, lawyerless. And they confront him on these business issues. They know that Jerry wanted out. They know that Ross refused to buy Jerry out. And they know that their relationship was quote, dysfunctional. His response is bizarre at best. It's absolutely fucking bizarre. They're going through the weekend again. Did you do anything Saturday night? No, I don't go out. He says I was like, you are the worst. Yeah. You have no friends. Everybody hates you. You're the grumbiest old gay guy on the block. Yeah, they're quickly yelling at each other. He's like, I don't know. I guess so. I don't know. And so at Sunday, on Sunday, he has a housewarming party for his new place. Everyone was out of there by 6 p.m. Yes. And I'm like, to quote Mark Ruffalo as Dave Toskey and myself sounds like a terrible party. Sounds like a terrible fucking party. But Ross's phone records tell a different story and they always do. Yeah. So Ross has been calling one number all weekend. And the cops are like, who is this? And he's pretending not to know who he is.

38:48I have no idea. He's just. So the cops have had it and so have either. Like Ross, I'm not doing this with you. And I'm like, how is he going to pretend he doesn't know who this person is when he is calling them 10,000 times? And the call started on Saturday morning when all the way into the evening and then again into Sunday. And he's getting snippy. Like he's a petulant teenager. He's like, maybe it was someone I had over. I said, and then he starts laughing, which for me is the absolute last straw. When you're laughing in a murder investigation, whether you did it or not, like you're just an evil monster. Or if you're Michael Jackson laughing and having to cover your face with a folder saying you don't know who George is. Oh my God. Evil. Evil. So Ross gives them a name, John Wheeler. John is straight and he doesn't want people to think that John's gay, but he was pursuing John, hoping that he could develop a relationship with John. Ross admits he's pursuing straight no homo John anyway. It's very when we learn about this relationship. Like we learn that right after the murder, Ross and John are on an all expenses paid by

39:51Ross trip to Key West. Talk about a gay mech of the East. Gay mech of the East and but then John is posting on his Facebook page, like shirtless pictures by the pool. Him and Ross like drinking cocktails. Right. Celebrating. His friend was just murder. They're celebrating. Yeah. But more than that, Ross was giving allegedly straight Jonathan a ton of money. Look, it just makes me wonder what John was doing for the money. Is that not very clear? I mean, this is one of those relationships that just makes me tired, exhausted and sad for everybody. Yeah, John is not straight. He's not 100% straight. I think there's a like we're going to learn that John has like a criminal past. He's a tar for him to like keep a job. I think he's like doing sexual things with Ross for money. No question. Right. We also learned that John did a 10 year prison term for armed robbery of a Taco Bell. With a knife. Get Taco Bell out of your mouth. Like get it in your mouth. Get it out of your mouth. With a knife. Who robbed the Taco Bell with a knife? With a knife. But the important thing about the knife is that the knife was the murder weapon and Jerry's

40:51murder. Okay, well, we have a stabbing murder. Ross has been hiding this guy. This guy's done hard time. It's a violent background and his weapon of choice is a knife. And his weapon of choice is a knife. So the cops bring no homo Jonathan in for an interview without a lawyer. It looks like he's drinking a tall boy. He's not. It's a monster energy drink. It looks like a big, but lighter, whatever. Yeah. And Jonathan says that he and Ross are just very, very, very good friends. And he says Ross is very kind, hard, and person to me. Like Ross is 100% this guy's meal ticket. Yeah, we have like a sugar daddy situation, like a sexual, like this is all a transaction. But he's like swearing up and down that he's not gay because he tells us that Ross gave him a job at the bakery, but I'm not cut out for bakery. So he fired me. Then we learned that Ross gave him money to start a construction business. Like personally financing this guy's brand new construction business that doesn't exist yet. I'm like, if you can't wake up in the morning to bake cakes, how are you going out to build fucking houses? But doesn't this also mean that John New Jerry, if he was in the bakery at all? Well, he says that he didn't, John didn't like Jerry because according to John, Jerry

41:56hit on him when he started working there. That is an absolute fucking lie. And it's also what Ross just said about himself. Ross said, well, John is, quote, straight, but I'm hitting on him anyway. Yes. Now we have John saying Jerry did that. Like that's, doesn't make any sense. What I hate about this too is that like the cops just believe John and they're like, well, now we've got motive. It's the whole gay panic thing that makes me fucking crazy. And John is completely full of shit. And Jerry's not that guy. Jerry is never going to be, Jerry is looking for love in prison. He's looking for love at the bar. He's looking for love on Craig. So he's not going to be hitting on the straight fucking low life bakery worker. And John, you're not 100% straight, which is fine. Yeah. But let's not act like you and Ross are just good friends. You're not going to be a shirtless in the pool in King West. Like giving funny shots off of each other. Give me a break who suddenly this guy is financing your non-existent business. Please, please don't patronize me. Girl, rocket money is back. Can I tell you I'm a little bit of a dummy. And my favorite thing about rocket money is that it tracks your subscriptions and it helps you to cancel them within one click in the app.

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43:59Join at rocket money dot com slash obsessed. That's rocket money dot com slash obsessed. So then they start talking about the weekend. Remember, we're trying to get everybody's timeline for the weekend and this guy John has absolutely no fucking memory and his the reason he says he has no memories because he did 10 years and when you're in prison, your memory goes to shit, which okay, don't now weaponize a very true thing. We're talking about a weekend like two weekends ago. Right. We're not talking. No one's asking you to remember your eighth birthday. No, you know, so the cops don't have enough to keep them. They have to let them go. They dive into straight, allegedly straight John cell phone records, specifically the GPS. Cell phone records for that number that John was using showed him at the cookout around five o'clock or so on that Sunday. Then it showed the phone going all the way down to Jerry's house. Almost an hour later, it showed the phone going back up to Ross's house. So it turns out that John absolutely was at Ross's housewarming party, which nobody has told the police straight John and Ross also has has and said anything.

45:03And I'm like, well, did you was Jerry? I guess not invited to the party, right? It must have been that. I guess not. Oh, shit, I never I didn't even put that together because they hate each other, which is fine. Like, well, and not only that, they need Jerry to be home. They need Jerry to be home. So and have a lot of people say, well, we are at the party. Yes, yes, even though it ended at six o'clock. I know. So the other thing they learned is that same night at the party that ended at six at seven fifty one, John's phone, pinged the Jerry's house. The thing that I had to remind myself, this was 2014. This was not 2002. Like people understand how self-identity works. Yes. These people are so fucking stupid. So stupid. So like his cell phone puts about John's cook out till five o'clock, then at seven fifty one is at Jerry's house. And then right after that, right back at Ross's house at like nine o'clock. At nine o'clock. So cops haul not that straight Jonathan in for interview number two. I love that we are convinced he's not straight. I know. Unless I'm like totally off my game and rocker. I'm not even claiming his sexuality. I just think he's doing gay stuff for money.

46:03Right. Which means that in some realm, you're not 100% straight. Yes. Am I crazy? No, no, no, no. No. Is the woke mom going to come for me? Like, what did I say wrong about that? No, no, no, no. There's nothing wrong with it. I just was like, I was never as the gay man in the room. Didn't feel like it was my place to acknowledge what is obviously going on here. This is in a situation where he was groomed for years and forced to do this. This is a guy who sees someone with a bank role because he just killed his business partner and has 100% of the business and a double income and wants some money. So he decides he'll be gay for pay. Have you ever said gay for paying this podcast before? I'm sure many times. You think so? Yeah. All right. Well, anyway, John's running for a second interview. Still doesn't remember anything. But then they had dropped the cell phone data at his feet. He's gone blind and he's waiting to hit you with a tower. That's where you are. There's no way out. You can say no way, but man, your cell phone put you there. The reason I'm asking is why you're here because Jerry's killed this night, man.

47:05The cops are like, you were the Jerry's. No, I wasn't. Yes, you were. No, I wasn't. The cell phone records are like, yes, they do. It's like, bitch, we got you. We got you. We got you. He's getting very agitated. But when they finally just outright accuse him of killing Jerry, that's when he realizes he needs a lawyer. Yes. So on his way out, he's like, and if you really think I did it, I'm going to laugh in your face. The cops are like, haha, haha. Haha. Hi, demonstration. Animalism is justice. Why do they look so certain or not, why would they want to kill those people? Why? They did Mattebox. Oh, I'm going to risk it. whether you did it or not. And I've heard some lawyers say I need to know all the facts and the point is how I can defend you. So I think it is a very personal preference. Because I just wonder if that's why Ross isn't calling a lawyer. Like if he's afraid that he's got to just admit to it now.

48:07No, that can't be. I mean, I think. Because I don't doubt you have to fucking be. Because like everyone's screaming at each other in this room, but they break Ross down to a point where they think they got him. And we're watching the video. I'm like, oh my God, he's about to like admit it. No, he completely shuts down. They do every trick in the book and he just completely shuts down. And now months are going by. And Ross is like thrilled with his new double income. The guy buys himself a fucking Cadillac escalator. He's spending money like water. So eight months later, a lead falls into their laps out of the clear blue sky. Unbelievable. This guy, Michael Thomason comes to them with information. Does he ever? Michael Thomason is John, not straight John. Not straight John's half brother. And Michael says that one day he came over drunk, just wasted off his ass like recently or a few weeks ago. Okay. And started telling me, I don't even remember doing it, but I stabbed this guy. He stabbed the hell out of him.

49:08I don't even remember doing it, but I like stabbed the guy to death. Full on confession. He also admits to the roommate Cynthia. Yeah. Now the brother and the roommate are like, he just confessed to murder. Are you kidding? But he also confesses to details. And he brings Ross into it, which we all know. Yeah. But then he's like, oh, we've been lying the entire time, bro. Like here's how we did it. And Cynthia tells the cops what he told her was after the killing, he went to Ross's house, Ross cleans him off. I bet you did, Ross. I mean, gave him a clean shirt and pants. I guess what I'm unclear about here is like, did Ross put him up to this or did John just do this on his own and go to Ross's for help? I think Ross dangled some money and some margaritas and a couple trips to Key West in his face. And what won't he do for money? Right. I think is kind of this, I think is where we are really. I mean, he's a violent criminal we learned. Well, Cynthia agrees to cooperate and they arrest John Wheeler. Yeah. And he won't do any more interviews with the cops at this point. And he never gives up Ross.

50:08Never. So four years later, Jonathan's on trial. Why did it take four fucking years to get this thing to trial? And they're not charging Ross in this time. So Ross is just like out in the world getting away with murder. So at Jonathan's trial four years later, Cynthia, the roommate testifies Michael, the half brother testifies. Ross didn't. Right. Ross didn't say a word. They lied for each other until the very end. That is impossible to do. Like to keep people from flipping on each other is wild. But it also kind of shows that like Ross doesn't give a fuck about this person. He's not going to vouch for him. He's not going to say anything. No. He's money. And John is convicted. Get two consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole. They finally, they're like, you know what? We don't have the strongest case against Ross, but we're going to get him on conspiracy. But the jury, after Jonathan's trial, the jury is like, they're like desperate. I know. Begging the lawyers. And I'm like, what's the two with Ross? Are we going to get Ross? I know. And I'm like, are jurors allowed to do this? In 10 years, we've never heard this before. They make a point to say even the jurors, you know, that's something was up. Yeah.

51:09But it all comes down to old faithful following the money. So they arrest Ross. They put him in prison awaiting trial. This is 2018 now. 2018. The guy I've never heard of this. We decided to spread a rumor inside the prison that Jonathan Wheeler is planning to flip on Ross and implicate him in Jerry's murder. And Ross got nervous. Ross Bern actually solicited another inmate to have Jonathan Wheeler killed. Ross solicits another inmate to kill Jonathan president. Ross only has one way to solve conflicts. Unborn. And it's murder. And Ross tries to hire this other inmate to kill John Wheeler. The point is that this worked. The cops planted this rumor. They walked right into it. I mean, it's unbelievable. And so Ross is proving everybody right. Yes. What's happening? Like, now he has two charges of conspiracy to commit murder. And he pleads guilty. And that's what they get him on. Yeah. So if they can't get him on Jerry, they like. Kind of entrap him, but not really.

52:09And he takes the plea deal because he was facing life in prison. So he takes the plea deal and gets 20 years. Yeah. Which I was like, after I will never understand why I took four years to get John's case to trial. But bottoming by the boom, we got to both. And it's just so crazy because Jerry was such a good guy. And I bet if Ross works with him a little bit on the business, we could have had a much better outcome. I just wonder, like, I wonder how that relationship went bad. Like, what was going on? Was did Jerry feel like he was doing everything and Ross was doing nothing? Yeah. Like, what we couldn't go through mediation, we couldn't be adults in the room, Ross is just like downright, reviews. Oh, there are some people who don't want to solve problems in business and then know those those those those avenues they'll explored cannot actually lead to resolution. I'm going to say something. Yeah. Well, that's stupid. Oh, oh, I know. That's not any way to live. Absolutely. I agree with you. Absolutely. I agree with you. Jerry was a great guy and I like Ross just fucking ruined it. He could have had a conversation, but he didn't. And I'm glad that Wayne was exonerated.

53:09I was really rooting for Wayne and his best friend, Michelle. Oh, my God. We did killer relationships risky business. Yeah. Season four, ep two, if you're looking for it. Oh, my God. I love what the guys never live in these things. You know what I mean? Sometimes they do. I mean, Randy, the dancing queen did. Randy, dad, we don't know what Wayne's doing. I know. Randy is still out there living his life in Marietta. Good for you, Randy. Yeah. I'm sending you a love of them. One of the many gay macas of them. One of the very many gay macas. All right, fam. We love you. We love you. Bye. Bye, everybody. Gag.