372: Akshay Bhatia Gets Technical On Driver Work, Bunker Play, & His Go-To Cook Out Order

0:00The show is about to begin. Do you ready? That smiley coffin for 61. Wow. Featuring smiley coffin. If you're on a local out hopping of PJ Tour Venn, you might see Hideki Matsu. Yeah. Pull it up and stay at strength in the grip. His co-host, Charlie Hugh, you cannot pick five. Of the last eight winners on the PJ Tour Venn. Oh, it's going home. Please go home. Please go home. Yes. Come on, these are great. And the biggest names in golf. That's a great question. Can I talk about it? I don't think I'm ready. I could as a kid, SK. Why not, Astroite? Today, live from the Pine Crested, it's the smiley show. So long, everybody. This is the smiley show. Welcome back to another episode of the smiley show.

1:02We have a guest on today, Akshay Betia. I know you're a custom hearing, smiley off the top of these interviews, but we got some little special little different way to get this interview today. The first place we have to start is Akshay. This is your third appearance on the show. So smiley, I think on the big board, that puts him just one appearance beneath Justin Thomas and James Nitties. We're in the neighborhood of all time leaders. Pretty soon, that's going to get you into the next week with all these top 10s you're getting on the show. I mean, I think it's a good thing when you're on your shows. So we're planning on. All right, so Akshay, you're here to talk about the Travis Matthew modern tour shoes you designed. I'm just going to call these colloquially the Akshay ones. And I got some show and tell people here, OK? We're going to start with a picture of these shoes. These are me wearing these shoes in a term in a hope valley this last weekend. And you're probably wondering why I hate. Why is this so zoomed in? All right. I want to take you back to Bay Hill on the 16th hole.

2:02You hit a six iron. And you almost hold out for Albatross. We got some symmetry here, OK? Because in this tournament, on the 15th hole, the parrho 5 of a hope valley, I hit a five iron and hold out for my first ever Albatross. And oh, shoot, let's see the, sorry about that. I think you just wanted to show your quality. There we go. There we go. Hold out for an Albatross, Akshay. And so here's what I got. I'm wondering is like, I don't know if you made one of these in research and development or on the tour this year that we missed out on. But I think I'm the first person to make an Albatross in the modern tours. Is that correct? That is probably true because no one has them yet. So I love it. That is a pretty epic. It was, I've never made a whole one. This is a very, very good feeling here. Have you played Hope Valley? So I know you spent a lot of time out and it would wait for us growing up. Oh, Hope Valley, where is it? Durham. I feel like I have.

3:02I don't know. Is it a McConnell golf course? It's not. Okay, then I don't think I have. That's probably Trabernate you played out there. I will say, here's my quick review of the shoes. All right. Love there is no break-in foot pain. Usually first time I wear a pair of golf shoes, the dogs are barking. They have this foam sort of cushioning that was exceptional. I also love that there are so many years where amateur players were doing the spike list thing. Now we're going back to spike. Traction was exceptional on these things, man. Yeah, that's epic. Yeah, we did a, they did such a great job. You know, it only took a year to kind of develop what I wanted in my shoe. Obviously, I'm an aim point guy. So I wanted something that was going to be pretty flat all around, but still have comfort. Style was really important for me. And then, yeah, I agree. The break-in thing, I get new pairs almost every week and I can put them on right away and go play and be fine. And yeah, the traction was another big thing because I slip a ton and I use metal spikes,

4:06but with these, it's like I can go out and play. I have my local place here and I have to wear medals and be quite okay. So I'm glad they're getting some traction and you obviously trying them giving good feedback. So I'm excited for them to launch here soon. I mean, we won our flight. I made my first, I don't think I can ever wear another pair of shoes at this point. I mean, it is first going to have to keep rippin' with these. So well done to you. How much, how much, yeah, go ahead. Hey, Charlie, I was going to just go back on something that I actually just talked about. I don't know who I was talking to recently about this, but when he mentioned just the flatness of a shoe and how that really affects how somebody reads a putt, especially with Aimpoint, there was like, I don't know if it was a caddy or a player I was talking to, Akshay, that had like changed shoes during the middle of the year and they couldn't figure out why they're Aimpoint, like why they weren't quite as good reading the greens with their feet, but they realized the shoe change.

5:08It was a huge story line with that because of just the overall flatness or how it changed a shoe. I found that that's interesting, man, because I think a lot of people, especially in the stay and age with Aimpoint, yeah, I mean, it is true. You want to have something, you want to be as close to the ground as you can. I think if you've ever seen Nick Taylor's caddy out there, he wears literally they look like slip on socks, and he Aimpoints for Nick. And it's also like a big thing when it comes to like weight transfer. If you have like too much heel lift, especially in the golf swing, it can be harder to actually get to your kind of like heel and lead side. So there's so many things that go into a shoe that obviously I don't know, but I've learned over working with Travis Matthew and watching videos and stuff where it's so important to have certain things in your ankles and your feet are so important in the golf swing that, especially in putting for me, that's huge, but also like stability,

6:09but still having some breathability. It's, there's a lot that goes on where we play so much, we walk so much, different golf courses where it's just really important. So I'm happy these shoes have, again, they look amazing. That's a big thing for me because I appreciate good style and yeah, and then the, you know, the, I mean, the crew socks, they're great, they're great, the workability, the work on this is amazing. Hi, Kate. Smiley, I'm just going to run this picture as often as I can on this show as many times as I can. I mean, at least I have a reason to hear, right? It's definitely not an overkill on this one. I honestly, like, I thought that the zoomed in thing that you just felt like you're having a good leg day. Yeah, I mean, come on, man. Look at that. It's, it's, it's a good side here. That's an epic. All right, well, actually a couple more for you before we flip over to Smiley. We got to get some, you mentioned the dogs on the free show here, all right? And I saw a video of you about a year ago, you were getting a brand new SUV, and you're, one of your first data reasons was,

7:10we have a couple of dogs. All right. What are the ground rules in your household for dogs? Because this is a battle I lose every single time with my wife. Could these dogs, Nora and Maxwell have destroyed, they have so much hair in our SUV, they destroyed the upholstery, they sleep on the couches, they will like push me out of the bed in the middle of night when they stretch. What are your house ground rules for your dogs? They're honestly, they run the house, honestly. They sleep on the couch, they sleep in our bed. I mean, in the car, I try and, our oldest always has sat in the front seat. I've tried to not let her do that, but she finds her way. So yeah, as long as they don't tear things up and don't run away, they can free roll wherever they wanna go. I gotta say actually, we did a trip one time we were driving from North Carolina, Florida, and I got off a speeding ticket in South Carolina because of our dog in the front seat. You came up there, it's ready to kind of write me up. I was like 25 over, it's like, that's a good look at dog.

8:12You drive to travel a little slower next time. It's great. Yeah, they can help you out with a lot of stuff. That's great. All right, and the last thing I got for you, because we got a touch on North Carolina in the show is that I wanna hear first your top, your favorite North Carolina golf course of the play, maybe growing up in Way Forest, and also I get a ton of heat on the show, or maybe my dietary preferences. I'm a big like cookout guy, or your peanut butter shake, and that's like a Ryan Gerard thing too. And so I also wanna know to go back to Oxhey's teen years, what the go to North Carolina fast food stops were, what the favorite orders were before we flip over to Smiley for the rest of the interview. Yeah, I mean, I think favorite golf course in North Carolina, man, we used to play this junior event called the Joe Chavis at Momota Hills. That's where Dewey Lives were, Seth Strong, this guy. That's a hill. That's a real house for some great pro-toe event there. Yeah, they have that. So I played that when I was like 11 years old,

9:14they gave me like a special exemption because I was too young, and every year I go there, I mean, it was just some of the most fun we'd have is the local kind of family that ran that tournament forever. And so that was like one of my favorite golf courses, there's also in the mountains, so you had some kind of cool scenic looks on certain halls. So that, yeah, definitely, odd favorite. And then- I don't love it. It's great. It's a classic. Man, we used to see my friends and I would go to Raleigh Country Club all the time. There was a cookout down the street. We go to Chick-fil-A all the time. Cookout Trey was obviously kind of the stable. And then Chick-fil-A, I feel like we did mostly, but it was always like spicy chicken sandwich meal fries, nuggets, milkshake, and then like Arnold Palmer. So we always went to Trey. What was the cookout Trey? I feel like I would always do,

10:16I'd always do the case idea. I do the- Like as a sigh, you can get that as a sigh. You can get like, you can get like, you can get like double of everything. We do nuggets or we do the like the fried cheese balls or whatever they were called fries, extracasian seasoning. And then I forget the milkshake I would get, but I want to say it was like a banana wafer something. It was amazing. My friend put me on it, it was electric. Charlie, weren't we like recently somewhere on one of these major weeks where you just decided to skip dinner or maybe we had to eat dinner and then you went to cook out and we got a milkshake. Oh, we were going to get a T-bone. And you decided to go- Faster, if you guys were going to grab drinks at T-bones, you're like, hey, me be over there. And there's a cookout right next to the T-bones and a gust that I was literally like, yeah, do I want to go out for a few more drinks? Like, nah, I just want a milkshake, I'm going to go home. It was, I've never been more upset

11:17because at the end of the week, I was like a celebrate and everybody's out. We're going to have some drinks. Even big plum was there. And then- I needed the shrimp. I'm just going to go get just milkshake. Like a cookout. All right, that's plenty of fun. Oxe, once again, thanks to one last cartoon is showing of the modern tours of Oxe I's and smile you take of me, everybody. Beautiful, thank you, Charlie. All right, actually, we just finished up 2026 season. I always felt like the week after a couple of different things would happen for me on tour. Number one, I would be exhausted. We'll try to catch up on sleep. Try to do some things around the house that I've been putting off the whole year. But also too, I would kind of get with my team, whether it's looking at stats, seeing, whether it's any to put a plan together for the following year. But it's always that great time for just open reflection. Have you had any time to kind of do that yet? Sit down and kind of reflect on the year that was in 2026? Yeah, I think, like by myself, I have,

12:19obviously winning is an amazing accomplishment each year. If you can do that, I think that's a, when you look at someone like Dustin who won every season for 20 straight seasons or whatever he did, it's pretty incredible. So that was a big achievement for me. I think everything else in between was pretty much mediocre. And I think there's the main thing that I need to focus on, which is just to become a better driver, I think to compete in big events and be top 10 in the world. That's a major factor. I think you look at most of the guys who are top 10 in the world and their elite drivers, whether they hit it long, or you look at a guy like Russell Henley who hits it, he's the straightest driver on tour. So that's a big, big thing I really need to work on. And I think I mentioned in another podcast,

13:19worth that thing is something I take pride in. I think I enjoy practicing, but I think being more strict and diligent in what I'm doing is something that I'm looking forward to to kind of have that plan in place to where I'm not, kind of going through motion sometimes because I think that can definitely happen when, you know, you're at tournament, you're pretty regimented, and then when you get home, you're kind of, what do I really need to work on? So there's a couple of things that, you know, I'm excited for this off season, and then to really train really hard with my trainer and trying to gain some speed, some mass, protect my body a little more. So yeah, it's still a lot of good things coming this off season. And you're only 20 four years old. I don't know why I think of you as like almost somebody who's 27, 28, maybe it's because you've been a pro for so long, and I've seen you over the course of the last five or six years playing on the VGA tour. Do you feel like you finally have that footing

14:22and just experience that you're at a stage of life where you're married? You got, we've already talked about the dogs that you got run around the house, but it just like consistent senior wife, do you sense that? And do you feel that's gonna be helpful as you move towards next year where you're not in a state of getting ready for a marriage or what I should say, but all the parts of life that were happening to you at an early age? Yeah, I think I definitely feel like I've established this lifestyle a lot faster than most. Obviously being out around guides for a long time and playing professional golf for seven years is 24 is crazy. Yeah, so much experience at this point. Yeah, I think I've learned so much each year. I think how to manage a team, who do I want? My team, the balance of life, what's really important,

15:22I think is something I'm still trying to figure out because I am a golf sicko when it comes to all is wanting to practice and not being able to sit home. So there's plenty of things that I think I've learned so fast and I said this in again, the last podcast I did, but I think it was when Jackson won, they listed the youngest winners on tour. And I think I was just off that list. I think Sergio was the last one at 21 and four months. And I think I was like 21 and five months and I didn't make the list and that made me upset because it's like, man, am I really not relevant in the younger guys? You're an old fart now, man. Yeah. So that was funny, but yeah, I think again, it's you learn so much each year. And I have a lot of really good people and being in Jupiter, I have a lot of vets that I can rely on when it comes to small changes and stuff. Well, what else is also interesting?

16:23You've been pro for seven years. When you come out onto the PGA tour, I imagine that you're all these guys have all these different relationships with other players. You're so young that you're just trying to make friends with players, whether it's playing practice rounds with them. And trying to have them get to know you a little bit but also try to pick their brain when you can. But I would say that you can kind of point to a couple different things that I can look at with TGL. You have guys that are teammates on TGL that you've gotten to play with. I see that you always seem to be around. So I hit the go. God or a bridge, it seems like some guys you've been around. So it feels like, too, not only if you've got an experience on the golf course, but it feels like from a friendship and emotional standpoint and people you travel with every single week, it seems like you have a really nice footing with a good group of guys out there now. Yeah, I think that's something that is very hard on the PGA tour is everyone's working for themselves

17:24and doing their own thing. And so this year, you know, Presley and I have found, you know, Jacob and his wife and Chris and his girlfriend. Like, we've gotten hang out with them and stay with them, which we've never really done in the past. Done a lot of housing together. And so that's really fun. I think when you see before everyone had kids, JTU, Rick, you know, you guys would always hang out. And I think just having your core group, especially on tour, whether it is to talk about golf or to play games and just to have fun, you know, it just makes this lifestyle so much more fun and easier and less taxing, you know, because I think, again, as a golf, you know, sick all I think about is golf, it can definitely consume your emotions. And so when you kind of see how other guys perceive, you know, after rounds and stuff,

18:24when they're not talking about golf and they have other things to talk about, it's definitely refreshing and gives you a different perspective. So if it's you, Sahith, Jacob Bridgman, and God are a point of practice round, what's the game? Man, it all depends. Me and Saul are just awful as teammates. I mean, every time we play at home, I think we've maybe tied one match. So yeah, I mean, normally we'll do a birdie game. I think this year at the open, we did a birdie game, we did a double game. It was me, Chris, Pat, and Zander, me and Zander were teammates. I played, I think I made like three birdies and an eagle, Zander didn't do anything. We won a couple hundred bucks and then... Would you play a hundred dollar birdie? What's the game? I want to say we were doing, yeah, maybe it was like 50 or a hundred dollar birdies.

19:25I think I made three birdies and an eagle. No one else really did much. Zander made a double. He was having a double game against God are up. So he lost 200 there. But we ended up netting, you know, three, 400 bucks, which is amazing. Hey, actually, who do you think the number one rank to play in the world is on Tuesdays? Man, I honestly think it's... I don't know, it's so hard to say. I mean, I play a ton of fractions with Rick. And I feel like for the most part, he will make three or four birdies. And if he has a putt on the last hole to win money, it is going in. I have seen it three or four times this year. Where he has had a 12 to eight footer and he is walking it in as soon as he hits it. So he is definitely a sneaky Tuesday. That's my partner. That makes me happy.

20:25Makes me happy. And I need him more than I've ever needed him when we go play Jordan and JT in a match. So keep making that putt on 18, Rick. We're going to need that coming down the stretch. And I got to go back to a couple of different things. One, when you kind of describe your year, you kind of described it as as mediocre. And for me, who of course I've played on PGA tour, I know the accomplishment of making the tour championship and how difficult that is. And honestly, you kind of did it with ease. And when I look back at your prior two years, making the tour championship, now we have three straight years from 21 to 24 years old where you're making the tour championship. I mean, that's also something that you should be very proud of. Is that something that's a goal for you at the beginning of every year to make it to Atlanta? Yeah, I mean, I think you know you've had a really good year. 30 guys only make it. This year was an easier pathway than last year.

21:28And I think Joe and I's first year together was great. There was a lot of changes this year. But I always ask him this week, because I've left East Lake disappointed almost every year. And he was like, I don't think disappointed is the right word, but definitely a room for growth. I think that was something that I needed to change the dialogue on because each year I've left East Lake so disappointed in myself. And he was like, do you realize how great making it three years in a row to East Lake is that chance that you've had to make it? And I was like, I don't realize it, you know, I think again, being hard on myself is something I need to work on ever be kinder to myself. But yeah, it's always kind of on the on the list of goals for that and making teams and obviously can't control winning,

22:28but contending is an important thing too. If you can contend a ton and have an opportunity to win, then you know, you can say it's a successful year. You know, chasing Sunday the PJ tour, I had this initiative this year to try to get a behind the scenes or I should say inside access to players and caddies conversation of the course of the week. We saw it between you and Joe Griner, the players championship. Of course, this is coming off of a very long and stressful week at Bay Hill where winning takes a lot out of you. And then you get to TBC sawgrass, which is a very, very challenging golf course that takes a lot out of you. It's a huge week for all the players. But we got to see you and Joe work together. And you could, I mean, it was awesome to see to just how y'all's relationship. It seemed like although you'd only work for, well, was it only a couple months to that point, it felt like you guys had a communication that lasted much longer than that. When you look at this whole first year with Joe, how would you summarize the impact that he had for you on the golf course

23:31and how you were able to play shots and try to achieve the goals you were wanting to? Yeah, I think, again, him being left handed was a mate. Was the biggest thing that I wanted. So interesting, right? Yeah, you know, when I was trying to get him for a year or whatever, that was a big component. Obviously, I knew he's won at many tough golf courses. So I knew he's really good at what he does. I think the main thing that was so interesting to me is I've always wanted people around me to be right there with me and watch me do my stuff and kind of give me details or whatever, like what should I do? Should I keep practicing? And Joe's one of those guys where he sets up my putting stuff where he's on the range and then he'll go talk to Austin Kaiser or he'll go talk to Scotty Vale or he'll go mess around with a putter laying around and stuff. So that was a really nice change of pace

24:34because he kept telling me he's like, you own what you're doing here. Like, I don't need to be there for what am I going to do? So that was a nice thing because he's really good on the golf course. He understands how to kind of look at certain holes for me and then when it comes to practice, he makes it, you know, he lets me take ownership. So Joe's really great. I think most for the start of the year, we were on the same page almost every time with a shot. How far we were trying to land it. And I think, yeah, we still have room for improvement. More so of like, how can I rant to him more on the golf course when I kind of get boiled up inside and, you know, small things like that. But again, for our first year to kind of finish the way we did and to win, you know, and I think it was like our fourth start together. It was pretty, pretty epic. You mentioned the driver and I want to ask your opinion

25:36on kind of what your next steps will be and trying to make that more of a strength in your game and how you look to the top 10 guys in the world. What was Joe's opinion to you? Actually, of course, he just went through a whole year of watching you tee off off, you know, with the driver. What would be his suggestion on kind of the best way to try to get a little tighter? Yeah, I think, you know, we definitely have talked about it a lot where he's like, you are so good at this game and so talented and like to be 15th in, you know, going into the tour championship, but being, you know, 120th and driving is really impressive. Obviously, having a go closer to a go to shot or like a one way miss, I struggled with two way misses for this whole year. And I drove it my best at sawgrass, which makes he's like,

26:37can't fathom that because it's one of the hardest places to drive the golf ball optically. You know, it's very nerve-wacking. I think a lot of it, you know, has to do with kind of my matchup and my golf swing needs to change and the delivery of my golf swing. And then I think to a lot of like, the mental scarring I have of not wanting to hit it both ways is a big thing that it's going to take time to overcome. But yeah, I think if I can get my golf swing in a more consistent pattern, it'll be huge. And then I can work around, you know, with the Kallowee guys to get a driver that is probably more beneficial for me. I've been using the same driver for I think three or four years now because it's been really comfortable for me, but it might not be the best suiting golf club for me. So yeah, I've gone through, I've been flows of getting my

27:38golf swing in a great spot before the year. And then as we get more competition, I go back to my old habit. So yeah, I'm excited. I'm going to really work hard on my golf swing. I kind of want to change a lot of things. And have a different DNA when it comes to off the tee. And then, you know, hopefully it can transition when I get into competition. It created me if I'm wrong, but you're driver that you play with now. The loft is around like six degrees, which is very, very low for a standard tourhead. Yeah, I think it's after I think it's set in minus two. So it's around like 6.8 starting loft. But I think the more and more I've learned about my golf swing, you know, I have very low hands to start. My driver's really upright for start line. The loft is down so it can cut. Yeah, okay. So there's a lot of things that again, I've been so comfortable with it. But yeah, it also can create the two-way miss.

28:38And with how my swing plane is, like most guys are around 48 to 50-ish, you know, when it comes to how they're delivering the clubface mine, I'm around 37. And so that just makes your sweet spot smaller. And then the face can deflect a little more. Wow. That's why you're such good iron player though, because there's a little bit more manipulation in the descending blow of an iron. It's not going to be quite as big of a deal. Yeah. So my matchups with irons are great. I know I can control the face really well, but with drivers, sometimes I feel like I can make a good golf swing and it can go one way or the other. That's frustrating. That's frustrating as a player. So is it as simple as getting fit into something that's a little bit more of a standard head, standard loft, and then aiming a little straighter, and then just kind of working through the pattern to get to where it's, you know, the start line of to where when you're standing on a t-box and you have something overhanging on the right, it doesn't necessarily sound the alarm bells.

29:38It is simple as kind of working through that scar tissue and then also just kind of getting fundamentals a little bit straighter. Yeah, I think it might be like reverse where I need to get the technique great and then we can work on getting a driver that, you know, works a little better for what I need. I think when you see a lot of these guys who are elite drivers, you know, Rory's probably four to five up and he probably swings at four to five right. So his swing direction is so neutral. I'm never going to be that way. No, it's like opposite ends here. Like Rory over here and then he got actually done. Yeah. And it's a great way to get more towards the middle there, like, or you're going to, what do you think? Yeah, again, I think I'm trying to not lose my iron game. Sure. Definitely trying to just neutralize it to where I'm not restricted at tournaments. Yeah. Because I think when it, like I felt most comfortable at the US Open because there's no trees, it's pretty big fairways.

30:41And I could start it, you know, I didn't have fear of starting it right. I had room, they really curve it. And then when I get to Augusta is where I feel like this pinchy, you know, 18 so uncomfortable for me. 17's uncomfortable. 14's uncomfortable. Seven's uncomfortable. They're just dead. Yeah, shoots. You just got to hit the start line. So important. So that's where I feel like again, I can play certain golf courses really well, but then it hurts me at many golf courses. And I think that's like an Arnold Palmer. I was, I think I was like, I lost four strokes off the tee that week, which is obviously I put it amazing, but I put it amazing. But you drove it better on the weekend. Give yourself credit. Yeah. I mean, I hit the last 10 fairways, which was, I think, good to know that I can do it under pressure. Yeah, I think I'm excited to really change my golf swing and go down some different paths that I've never done.

31:41Yeah. And it's fun, man. It's exciting. Yeah, it'll give me a good plan for the off season. Fun three or four months. All right. So what if I tell you that we're sitting here a year from now and that you are top 20 and strokes gained off the tee? What do you think you would have accomplished in 2027 with that just that statistic that comes in mind? I think I definitely have chances in major championships. That is a big thing. I think confidence overall in my game. I think when I'm driving it so poorly, it puts so much stress on everything else to where I think this year I'm a very, this is where Joe's great too, because he's not an overthinker and I'm a huge overthinker. So I definitely have gone through ebbs and flows of freaking out with my game trying to change so much so fast and it's just not the recipe for success.

32:41So I think overall confidence will kind of be more stable throughout the year. And yeah, I mean, hopefully, you know, I definitely want to make the rider cup team next year. So if I can drive it better and be top 20, then I feel like I'll have a good chance with everything else that I have going on. So Joe's, you know, when you get him like inside the rope, he's a fairly intense caddy. Like he's, you know, very much in it on every single shot. It's not going to ever throw a shot away as a caddy. What is he like playing with though? What is Joe on the golf course when you're playing with them? Do you enjoy playing golf with an intense golfer like that? Man, he is so intense because he cares so much about winning. We played, we played, we missed a cut at the open and we played right down the street. It was me, my coach, butchie, who caddies for Gary Woodland. And Joe, butchie and Joe were on a team. My coach doesn't ever play golf.

33:43And so and his body is all messed up. But I mean, Joe would, he was playing with my driver, which was six, you know, six, whatever degrees, bunting it down there, landing 220, going three, 20. And then he would just chip it around like kind of like make some of the grossest cars. And then he would hoop a 20 footer for birdie. He would storm to the next seed, pick up his bag. I was like, I mean, he is so intense when it comes to playing golf. It's, it's amazing. And again, he's such a, he is a crazy sicko thinker when it comes to his game. Um, you know, how he should chip and what he should feel and all these things, you know, he, he's so excited to go try and figure stuff out. So, um, do I like playing with him? I don't know yet. We've only played twice, but the last time we played, I was like, man, I can't, he was just so into it. Um, that's so good, man. And I would just have a fun, you know, I remember talking to you guys.

34:45This was the putting green, uh, at the travelers championship. And you guys were, uh, cause I, I remember bringing it up, uh, cause I had an had a chance to ask you about it just with the cross handed style of chipping. And I was like, where do you find the added benefit of, of chipping cross handed? Cause I've seen you do it or time or two. We saw you do it on the 18th green at bay hill. And I thought your answer was so interesting because it's, it's very, uh, unique in the fact that like your golf swing is very like out to end a little steeper, but like how that could affect your chipping and you're like, dude, cross handed. It's great. Cause like I'm, I can't be quite as like cut spinny. It makes me kind of be standard. Like how has that been, uh, this entire year, just the evolution of kind of mixing that into the game when you have a bunch of green to work with and just a standard chip shot? Yeah. I, Del wants to do it a lot more than I do. I did it a ton at waste management, you know, some longer shots. That's a good week for it.

35:45You know, yeah. So I did it a ton. I feel like there, um, I did it on 15 at bay hill. 18, I did actually went normal conventional. Oh, you did. I thought you messing around with it. But, um, so yeah, I think, you know, I've worked with a, you know, one short game coach where I was on the opposite side of the spectrum where I couldn't spin it. I was very shallow. Um, my contacts, my low point wasn't as good. And so when I first started working with him, he got me steeper and cutier. I kind of went from this spectrum to, oh my gosh, this, I can hit any shot you want. Uh, and then it got like too far to the end of the spectrum where it was so steep, so cutie where I would either get kind of like two hot, low shooters or I'd kind of get the face flare short left. Um, so Rick was, Rick, he was the one where he was like to sit a couple of cross handed. We were at 3M. At first, I couldn't even do it.

36:46Like my body wouldn't move the way it needed to. And then the more, more I started doing it, the more I was like, man, this is so easy. I'm not thinking about like the speed of the shot. I'm just kind of reacting. So, um, I think it's a great, it was great. It's great in practice and it's great in certain situations when I have like lies below my feet, uh, and green working right to left. You know, that's where I'm like, it's obviously a cross handed shot. Um, wow, because it just spins a little straighter. It's still on the cutier side and the, yeah, it's just not as dry. The, so, um, my, my, my shuffling kind of reduces, uh, when it comes to going cross handed. If somebody sucks at chipping is listening to this and they're thinking like, should I chip cross handed? What type of person in their pattern should, should go and try it? If it is somebody that is like two like steep like you're talking about that makes big divots. Is that a person that would benefit from like trying cross handed? I'm just trying to help out the people that are having a tough shipping summer.

37:48Yeah. I mean, I think any, any golfer can do it. Um, it, cause it, it matches up your, your body rotation. You're using so much of your, your upper body to rotate. So I definitely think it's someone who probably like hits behind it or an ives it all the time. Whether you're super in the out or out to in. Um, but it just helps you match up your body and even if you don't do it all the time, it's like practicing that practice. I keep blaming it when I try. Like the first couple of times I try it, I just blade it. So maybe it's a me problem. Yeah, I mean, that's where it's like you just got to figure it out. If you even, I watch Brooks like on coverage and even if he has 50, 60 yards, he, like, takes a practice when cross handed. Capca? And then yeah, really go look back at like the us open on whole, uh, one of the par five's like five or six. He had like 60 yards. He hits it cross handed and then he grips it normal and then hits it.

38:50So, huh? So it was just a feeling he's creating. That's so, yeah. So it's a big real, because like Fitsy work, uh, because that's what he does. I don't know if, then Fitsy worked with P count at some point in his career. I feel like I'm not sure. I mean, maybe not. He's a guru. So he's true. There's some element. He makes some element. So easy man. Like he doesn't look like the easiest thing in the world. It's like, oh, you really want me to hit this chip over a bunker? Like, okay, fine. And he was just spot like every time it feels like. Yeah. So yeah, I think it's, I think it's good. I think it's good for people who maybe can't hit it high too. Yeah. I think I was listening to your podcast with Keith and it's like Scotty and Jordan are really good at hitting the low, but they're getting their spots. Yeah, they talk so, he talked about like margin of error too, which I thought was super interesting. Because like when you are too almost like cut spinny, especially if you start getting shortsighted all where they put whole locations on tour, you're like, is that first bounce going to be too much?

39:52Like it needs a land soft here. So is that kind of this time where you can get a little bit more height on it? So because if you're if you're too down and across it, that's where it almost feels like the only way to get high is if it rolls up the face. You know? Yeah. Yeah, that's where it's like I feel like I don't necessarily have like if I have a 14 and 15-yard chip with four paces of green. My landing zone is like, like it barely needs to land on the green. It can't land just short and it can't land too far. That's where I feel like, oh crap, I don't have this shot. There you go. And that's why like when I watch Scotty, his motion is so wild. But he can like kind of like just hit these high ones. And that's where I tell my coach where some guys can look at a shot and hit it high. And like for me, it's like I have to hit this into the slope or bump it. So that's where... But that's another added tool to the tool shed for the offseason now.

40:53Yeah. I love it. We've got things we're working on and it's great to hear. But there's a couple other things. I have one is that I found super, super interesting. When you go and look at your ball striking, especially your iron play, you could tell that you have a ton of creativity in the way you play. I've seen you play in various different trajectories, but also changing not just being a cutter, like you have no problem working it left to right as well. And talking with Joe, one of the things that he mentioned is like, dude, I'll actually use Abel to use ball speed as a determinant for how hard he's going to hit a shot. And that's like the high level of feel that he has. It's not like a clock swing, like a brace in the shambles. Like take it to 10-30. You could say, dude, 135 ball speed, 7-iron, I don't know if that even matches up at all. But like, it can be that small of a number of a change that you're able to just refer to that ball speed and how that helps you hit a pin I'm or off.

41:55And that is a really, really cool thing that I don't think many other guys use. Yeah, I mean, I think my coach and I, he's kind of ingrained it in my head. Because I've used the track man since I was 15. I didn't really understand it. And then now I do, I think we worked on my wedges like I know 83 miles of ball speed is 100 yards with my sandwich. I know my, yeah, I just know my speed. I know how far it should go if the spin rate's correct. And so that's where, yeah, I've just done it so much. And I'm always using track man on the golf course on the range. So yeah, it's pretty interesting. You know, some guys can just feel it out. But yeah, that's cool, man. Like we, we think like hit it a little harder, hit a little softer. Like you have a number that you can refer to, which is cool. Yeah, I've just done it for so long that I kind of know.

42:57I mean, my seven iron ball speed is always kind of like 132, 138 to 132 depending on how my body's moving. But yeah, it's like if I'm hitting a draw seven iron, you know, it'll get up to 37 and that goes probably 188 versus 182. It's like, yeah, it's just small things that I've just been so used to. And I manipulate the face so much at a dress. So I kind of understand those matchups more. Joe mentioned to like one of the things that impressed him about you so much. Was that not only you were young and have all these different shots, but that you're your IQ for the game was really, really high. He said he hasn't seen like a young guy with an IQ that has just the fields that you are able to kind of manipulate the face like you're talking about to be able to add something to a shot. But he also mentioned too that you might have the best bunker game on the PGA tour. Are we not talking about this enough? Like did you are potentially the most qualified

44:00best bunker player on the tour? Are you going to go in and take the stand there? I mean, I think I did finish probably close to the top. That's hilarious. He said you're sick. And I always know need to be a good bunker player, but I need to like add that to the talking points for you actually. Yeah, it's, I mean, that is definitely something that we aimed for at certain events. Which is funny, but yeah, I've hit some really like nasty bunker shots this year. I had the one Joe mentions all the time his whole 11 at Riviera. The pin was like front. I was in the bunker. You know, I have three pieces of work with the lift. Yeah, and I, I hit it to, you know, just a foot or something. I've hit some long bunker shots really close. So yeah, it's weird. I think he kept saying that and then I just kept believing it more. Like my bunker game is sick. Like just if I'm in a bunker, I'm going to make, I'm going to get up and down.

45:01It felt like. So yeah, it was, it's been a good year in the bunkers. I need to keep doing what I'm doing when it comes to that. Because again, I think my technique of being super steep and Cudi, I can hit some of those softer ones. And then yeah, just small things I learned over time. Like if I'm shortsighted, I weaken a ton of my trail hand. I weaken it a ton. I'll roll the face a ton. You will roll the face and then you will throw it at the bottom. Yeah, I mean, I'll roll it because, and then I kind of just cut it and then out of the loft. But my handles still really for it. I think some people are, you know, can throw it this way. I'm more like dragging, but the grip's so weak than it kind of squares it up. Makes sense. Do you do change clubs all often in bunkers? Are you, you're 60 primarily? Mostly 60 unless it's like 40 yards. And I'll use 54 or 50.

46:02Yeah, some guys will just go to that sandwich and have a little bit more balanced, especially when the bunkers get the sand gets a little heavy. So I was curious if you were a guy, you know, considering that you are the best bunker player in the world. I had to ask you just so the people have all the right information here. Yeah, I'll change it a little bit. But it's funny, Arnold Palmer, like there's like no lip and you're just looking right at the whole. So that was like the the week where I told you I was like, this is really weird for me because I'll have like a nine yard bunker shot. And I'm looking directly at the green and at the flag, you know. All right, Charlie, I'm going to bring you back in here for this last bit of this conversation because I think this is super interesting. I was at, gosh, I don't know where it was, but I was looking at who's golf ball was who's in the fairway. And I was like, oh, that's auction ball. See the cowboy. But I noticed like how good the line of the golf ball was. Like it was a perfect line. Like there was no mistakes in how this line was driven on the drawing on the golf ball.

47:05And so is there a formula for the perfect line, actually? Because I am a line guy and I feel like I'm not as good as I could be after seeing like what do we peer perfection? Yeah, well, I normally use the fine print on the edge. So I draw the outline and then either a Sharpie or the Milwaukee pens are really good. Ooh, so then it's a pen. It's a pen. Yeah, so I never heard about the Milwaukee. Now I need to go. Milwaukee is is at the red top like the red cap. Red body black cap. Oh, I've gotten those before. That's a that's a really good Sharpie. And that maybe that could be the difference. It could be the it could be the pen. It definitely is. I think some Sharpies like they're not consistent. Yeah, I mean, this yeah, it's a little wobbly. It's a little wobbly. And all right, okay, second question I have here is do you think that when you put the line down for like where you're trying to aim it?

48:10Can you tell sometimes like your like you're like you get on the mirror and everything is absolutely right. But then you put the ball down. And then sometimes if you just have the ball and the line just like a little bit either like this way or this way, just the way it's leaning that it totally manipulates just your perception of where you're aiming. Has that like gotten to you at any time? Like am I the only person that deals with lining up the golf ball just like not completely on top in being square? No, you're I mean my friend there she is. She's Milwaukee. You can get a 12 pack for like $7. It's huge. Great. Now the I used to be terrible at lining it. My friend who is a really good putter I used to play with him. He was like dude, you just line it like sideways. I know what he's saying. I'm talking about. But the way I line it now, I don't have like the full line on top. So I have like let's see. I always got a golf ball. You know, I'm so interested right now.

49:12But I always I line it where this is up top. So I only have a little bit of the line showing. So I don't have it like all the way up top. So what are you looking at? So tell me so you're barely looking at the bottom of or either the bottom of the top line. Yeah, I'm like kind of looking at half the line. So okay. If that makes sense, but more so where the end of the line is is where it's aiming versus it just being straight up and down. So you're getting all right, so you get the satisfaction of seeing the ball roll end over end, but without it bogging you down as far as where exactly it's aimed. So it allows you to still be free and how you aim. Yeah, I would say my golf ball rarely rolls end over end, but I don't know about all that. No, I can promise you. Really? The only time it really rolls end over end is if I have like downhill puts. But for the bottom, you know, uh, no, I mean sometimes I get some people get

50:15really anal about that. Like they use a line. They want they're like, oh my god, it's wobbly. We got to go on our putting. When I arm locked, I used to roll it end over end every time. And then one time switched to the broom, it's just not the same. But the ball, I know the ball is starting within a half a degree left to right. So I'm not too upset about it. Um, I, but yeah, I got two purple dots on the golf ball that I used to make an albatross. I don't know if you guys heard Oh, here we go. Better not. I don't know where to say she's that I just, this golf ball, who's gone out, I figured I throw it in there. You know, we're going to see your clouds again. I mean, it's a great place to end this interview. I mean, look at those, man. That guy's got a good routine, whatever he does. I'm just glad you're I'm glad your short song over your knees. That's an issue for me. Yeah. Yeah. That's yeah, that's the short, because you really, the end seam on the shorts, it's a fine line between too long and too short. And I've been on either side of it. So I'm going to good, I'm going to really good spot my short

51:15length right now. Thanks for asking about that, Doc. Especially with all those cookout milkshakes. Yes, you know, it's it, it, it, it masses mass, Miley. I think that's scientifically accurate. It's ball speed. It's ball. It's great. Well, is that is that it? That we got? Yeah. All right. We got you. Thanks. It's up for joining us. Thanks for the shoes. And best, best luck on the offseason. You play internationally at all this offseason or what else you got coming up next? Yeah, I might play Japan. And then we'll see after that, like I told Smiley, I'm excited to change a lot of my golf swings. So see how long that's going to take. Good stuff, Miley. Very good. Congrats, man. Thanks, y'all. We'll see you soon, Doc, Shay. Yeah. Thanks, Smiley. Thanks, Charlie. We'll see you next week on the golf channel. This has been The Smiley Show. You know, listen to this talk. Ed is really cool and all over. We'll be honest with subscribers, but make sure you like it from scratch.

52:18It's cool to see what you guys are doing. I know golf fans appreciate it, but we do too. So please keep it up. Probably good people are YouTube. Like and subscribe. You guys have some good takes. So I'm happy to come on and shoot the