319: TikTok Psychosis

0:00Hello Liberty lovers and welcome to the Liberty Mic podcast broadcasting from an undisclosed location in the heart of Dixie. I am Michael and I'm here with Liberty Larry. How's it going? I'm doing all right. How are you? Pretty good. We've had a weird day with rain. It's like rain really hard and then stopped. Yeah. It did. It did that at the store today. It rained and then it got blistering humid like a sauna. Oh, dude. It was so bad. And then the rain, the good. So yeah, I feel you. Yeah. When I used to lifeguard a long, long time ago, we always hoped that the rain would last until it got a little dark or that the sun wouldn't really ever come out again after it rained. Yeah. Because even if it just stays overcasty, that helps. Yes. The worst is when it rains and then the sun comes, like full comes out, which is what

1:02happened at the store today. Yeah. Oh, this is rough, dude. And I had an unresponsive car when I was ready to leave work. And so my first world problem with the day is that I couldn't get the air conditioner to turn on before I got in the car today. Yeah. Oh, no. Not in your car. That's not supposed to happen. Exactly. That's what I thought, too. But it just didn't want to listen. Oh, that. Now, that sounds like your car. If you would have said, give me an example of something with your car. It didn't listen to me. I'd be like, that's Mike's car. I mean, usually it wants to stay cool, too. Yeah, you would think, but at least it didn't lock the doors and catch on fire. I mean, the air conditioner turned on before I went to the car when I was ready for lunch. Really? Yeah. But it just didn't want to connect when I was leaving work. And I was like, I'm going to have to get in that car while it's still hot. Hey, technology man. It's great when it works, but so often when it doesn't, it's just frustrated.

2:03And that's definitely like a first world problem, but we've had systems issues all week at the store. And it's frustrating because these are all systems. I've been around long enough with the same company. I remember when none of these systems existed. They weren't even a thing. And now we can't operate without them. And it's like, man, like, how do we get here? It is crazy to me. Yeah, I don't know. Got to love technology. It's a love hate thing. Yeah. Okay. So I did want to start us off with something from the last podcast. All right. Because you caught me off guard with your dolly assult. Oh, all right. Let's stamp by it. Yeah. Well, and I'm going to argue against you. Okay. I'm going to be on the podcast here. We had some, we had a commenter on the Facebook page that said something about like all the great works that she did in her career, I think, outweigh that.

3:05And I told you. And I replied to that that I thought that that was totally fair. But it's the same thing. I think that's fair. This is what I wanted to say about it. Is that like, she has no power. She has no power of compulsion. Right? I mean, she can't make you do anything. Lots of people were pushing towards people getting vaccinated and so forth. I think it would be ridiculous to hold it all against all of them for the rest of their lives. And I don't know if you experienced this, but I experienced this with my mom. Yeah. I mean, I didn't from that angle, but I mean, I had people that were like pushing me a direction. Yeah. So I mean, as far as that end of it goes, I don't necessarily, well, I don't know. There's a few of them I do hold it against them. So I should, I shouldn't say that. But a lot of people I don't hold it against. I mean, it just depends on the situation. The part of what burns me up so much about this with Dolly.

4:06And like I say, I absolutely agree that the good, that she did a lot of good and that should outweigh some of what she said. The problem is, is where we live down here in the South, that had some weight. Sure. But she didn't have an ability to do anything. And she was also somebody that gave, she gave like a million dollars to, I don't remember, Moderna, I think. She did. Well, not, yeah, and even vaccine. It wasn't direct. Like she gave it to a university and that university was put, it all played together. Yeah. And for me, more importantly, like she had that reading program, they, she thought they gave like 350 million books to kids that wouldn't have had them in their hands otherwise. That's actually like really big to me. But, um, offer. I think the point that I would try to make here is that she is just a citizen. Like she may be, and I have, and we shouldn't considering what we're doing right here.

5:07Yeah. I have no problem with people using their platforms to say whatever it is that they want to say. Yeah. I mean, I, I do reserve the right to criticize what they say. Yeah. But like, I think that they have every right to say whatever they want, no matter how stupid it is. Yeah. My whole point is I'm not going to forget what she said. Yeah. And I get that. But I would say save your iron for the right people, save your iron for the people that were actually using the power that they had to compel people to stay home or to close their businesses or so forth. Like save your iron for the government. I mean, that was kind of the point that we were making. Like the iron for everybody. Yeah. I mean, but that was kind of the point we were making on the last podcast, right? Yeah. Was that people stopped short. They start blaming the people that aren't ultimately responsible. Yeah. She wasn't ultimately responsible. She had no power to impose any kind of restrictions or anything on you. Yeah. Um, but so I think that if you're going to like hold a grudge forever, it should be against

6:09the people that did have the power to compel you or to prevent you and restrict you from doing things. Uh, I mean, that's all fair. I'm not going to really even argue too hard against you for that other than the fact that I'm going to hold a grudge. I mean, you can do as you please. I just think that that's the, I mean, I don't, I don't think that what that should over, her statements during COVID should overshadow all the good she's done. I don't believe that. I'm all because she did do plenty. Um, and, and I think that's awesome. Um, my whole point was, let's not forget everything that was said. Um, that's, that's all I'm saying. Yeah. And I, I agree with that. You said I will never forgive her though on the worst podcast. That's what you said. Well, I'm not going to personally forget her. Like, but I mean, you'll do what you'll want. I mean, and I don't, like I say, I don't, I don't hate her over it.

7:10Like, hate her, hate her. But I don't love her either. Yeah. I think that she was in a position where she was old and she was scared and she isn't digging into the stuff in the same way that we are probably and recognizing. She's digging into it enough to give a whole bunch of money. Well, that's just given money. Yeah. I mean, she had a whole bunch of money. Like, it's really easy to give a bunch of money when you have a bunch of money. Yeah. I just, um, smart people don't give a bunch of money without digging some. Oh, she gave it to a university hospital, right? She did. She did. She gave it to a university, like I say, she didn't give it directly to Moderna. Yeah. Which is, you know, the N.I. H or something. The N.I. Yeah, exactly. Um, so I, I'm just saying that like she's probably not looking at it in the, in the same way that we are. And most likely she was just one of the many millions of people in this country that were watching the news every night. Yeah. And listening to the fear mongering and she was 70, whatever years old and bought in and

8:12was scared. Yeah. Yeah. And there was a lot of that. I mean, there was. And she may have been sick then too. Yeah. Like, I don't know when the cancer came, but like, you know, if I had to take a guess, I'd say sometime after she got shot, but that's just, that's just maybe in the conspiracy theorist. Yeah. Well, that's, that's okay. I don't know. I don't know. I, like I said, I think that she, she probably was being perfectly reasonable based on the information that she had. I don't doubt that a bit. And, um, and she didn't have any kind of authority. Yeah. Well, yeah. To you, to you, to you, to you, to you. And I think that that's probably the most important point that I want to make. Yeah. Um, is to like save your anger for the people that did and exercise that. Yeah. Which of the were plenty? Yeah. So that's all. All right. Well, that's fair. Cause I, like, I really was kind of like, uh, you were not prepared for my opening

9:16volley. Uh, yeah. Oh. That's fine. And, yeah. And then like, the more I thought about it afterwards, the more I thought, like mostly because, like, comparing it with my own mom, who was pushing me really hard and like, in every way that she could, um, shame guilt, whatever to try and get me to get the, the vaccine. Yeah. And, um, like, I don't hope that against her. Yeah. I get it. She was, she was old. She was sick. She was scared. Yeah. I understand. Yeah. No, I get that. I mean, she respects the decision I made now. Yeah. Well, I think that's that's scary. Um, but yeah, like I would, I just wouldn't ever, I wouldn't hold that against her and I don't see Dolly in much of a different position. Yeah. In fact, my mom has significantly more authority over my actions than Dolly Part. Yeah. I mean, that's fair. The, the only thing like I said is like, she, Dolly Parton has a lot of influence over

10:18people in the South. Like, if I've learned anything, the past few weeks, well, that may be true. She was kind of, I experienced the South, though. I haven't experienced everywhere. Um, she's kind of universally loved. I, uh, yeah. She believed me. The internet has let me know. Oh, okay. Well, good. I'm glad you know. Yeah. I'm aware. Um, I don't see how we avoid talking about Lindsey Clancy further. All right. I mean, okay. So last I looked, Jerry's still locked. Okay. So it was declared a mistrial sometime today. Okay. So at least according to news, notifications that I got not at all surprised. I mean, I said today, but I didn't, I hadn't seen it. I had actually said Tuesday, I was like, there's no way at this point that they're going to come to a verdict. Yeah. Um, the, well, first, like a little backgrounder for some, for anybody who could possibly

11:23not know what's going on here. Which, but for the record, I'm aware of what's going on. I have not dug deep into this case. Well, and I'm not going to give a lot of detail on this case either. Like I'm not here to litigate the case. That's not, that's not what we're doing tonight. Yeah. That's, that's not the purpose of discussing it. Um, but to summarize, uh, in January of 2023, um, this woman sent her husband out to do some errands. And while he was gone, she took her children, uh, in eighth month, an eight month old, a three year old and a five year old, one by one down into the basement and strangled them with, um, uh, like resistance bands. Yeah. Some kind of exercise belt. Yeah. Um, and then took a, a smattering of pills and, um, and exited out a second, definitive herself from a second floor window, uh, which resulted in her being, um, I guess a, a

12:27paraplegic now. She's paralyzed. Yeah. Um, and the case has now come to trial and for whatever reason it is generating a tremendous amount of support for this woman who murdered her three children. Well, like I say, have not dug into the details of the case, but a lot of people I see online are making an argument that I, I have no, I don't know that she didn't actually do this that, that maybe that there's the guy did it. Well, up to that. Yeah. So like I said, I just want to kind of put that out there that because I hear a, God, I hear so many different arguments and so many justifications. And the truth is I just haven't, I didn't follow the trial. So I mean, it ended in a mistrial. So yeah, maybe there's, I don't know to address that point. Okay. Um, her defense isn't even making the case that she didn't do it.

13:31Yeah. Like nobody involved in legal system is making the case that she didn't do it. It's a bunch of crazy women on TikTok that are making this case because they've watched too much true crime and they think they've got it all figured out because it's just like a script. Yeah. Or something. I don't know. I don't know either. Or all right, to be nuanced about it to be more likely, I mean, like I'm, I'm saying that is kind of a dark joke. More likely it's probably a lot of women who are making the case that somebody else must have done it because they cannot imagine. Yeah. This woman would cold-blooded, strangle her three children, which is part of the reason I ain't dug that deep into this because the whole idea of it just nauseates me. Yeah. But the, like, as far as the legal, um, as far as the court case is concerned, not even her defense is trying to make the case that she didn't do it. So they just, they just admit that she did it.

14:32So they're going strictly on the insanity play. Yes. They're trying to make the argument that because of postpartum psychosis and depression, that she did not have control of her actions and is therefore not criminally liable. Yeah. That's the case that they're making. Yeah. Um, I had something to say earlier and I forget. Margot. It's okay. I'm sure I drove you down a different path. Yeah. Yeah. It's fine. It'll, it'll leave the come back around or it won't. Oh, I remember what it was. So the jury's been locked for days. Yeah. And, um, and so now we have a mistrial. But when I, when I was making my notes, I was like a mistrial looks likely, but the defense wanted to dismiss a single juror. Yes. I've heard about it. Okay. Um, that they said was inhibiting the legal process and not following the instructions for reasonable doubt and so on. Yeah. Now what that suggests to me is that in the deliberations, it was 11 to 1 to let her

15:38go. It sounds that way. So I did see some, when I, I mean, maybe not let her go, but find her, but find criminally liable. Yeah. That's, that's the understanding from what I saw today is that, um, that, yeah, there was one juror that was, um, that was holding the whole thing up, which is, seems kind of nuts to me. Yeah. Apparently, Mel Granted, I didn't sit through the whole trial. Apparently we're going to need a new prosecution team for the next trial. Yeah. That's what I would say. I mean, if it was like that, yeah. Um, so you think they'll, but you, so you think they'll be another trial. Yeah. I mean, they're not just going to like drop it and let her go. I don't think, I don't think that they can. That's a terrible precedent to set for this nation. I don't disagree, but I mean, we, I, we'll find out soon enough. Um, I mean, it's, uh, it's an even worse precedent, obviously, if the, if the case returns

16:42and not guilty, um, it sounds like they weren't far from doing that this time. I know, but I cannot, I cannot imagine that that's normal, even a Massachusetts with a, uh, a jury of three quarters women. Like I still can't, I still can't imagine that being normal. Um, now, uh, this is the part where I get myself in trouble. So to me, it would just reinforce this idea that has been, um, propagated for like two generations of, well, I would say two generations of minorities, um, but women have really taken it to heart that they cannot be accountable for anything that they do. Yeah. That everything that they do is result of somebody else's mistake or systemic injustices or whatever. Yeah. This is, I, I gotta say this.

17:42This is not just a women issue. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. I said that from the beginning. Okay. Just I like because this is, man, this is a generational issue. This is like, I see this a lot. Um, I, I manage, I manage people like that's part, that's my day-to-day job is managing people. Yeah. Um, and I just tell you, man, like particularly the younger generation, but it's not just them. Um, we as a society have a hard time taking responsibility. Yeah. Like it's just, and, and it seems like it's a little more predominant with the younger generation. It absolutely has to be. It's, it seems that way from my personal experience, but it's not just, it's not just them either. Yeah. Like it's, and it's, it's a problem. Like I just, I can't overstate how much of a problem this is. So, um, you know, it's just like the, uh, the black or Hispanic thief saying, you know,

18:46that they shouldn't be held accountable because it's a result of systemic racism and injustice and historical, you know, injustices or whatever. Yeah. Like, you know, and then the woman's like, well, she can, she can murder her three children because she didn't get enough mental health support and, you know, the patriarchy and et cetera, et cetera. Like I'm sorry. She's still murdered three kids. And the legal question is, um, was she able to distinguish right from wrong? Essentially, um, it's that, uh, like mental illness itself is not an excuse for a crime. Yeah. Right. Like you shouldn't be. And I would say that there's got to be some kind of level of mental illness involved, either over time or in the moment on pretty much every murder. Yeah. Because it's not, I mean, think how hard the military has to work to train not killing people out of you.

19:49Well, out of most people, out of most people, there are psychopaths, but they don't get to just go around and kill people because they're psychopaths. No, obviously not. Um, the, the question is whether she understood either legally or morally that what she was doing was wrong. And like I haven't followed the case in great detail because I can't listen to that either. Um, but it seems to me from what I know that her actions leading up to during and following the murders suggest that she understood the wrongness of her actions. Yeah. Um, she sent her husband away. She like, and I know that you can argue about sides of a lot of this. Well, the fact that she tried to commit suicide afterwards would tell you that she knew she had done something she shouldn't have done. Well, but she claims that she was had invoices instructing her to kill the children and then kill herself. So she could say that's still part of the same psychotic episode that she was just following the directions till their logical conclusion. But, um, and she did like, there is a history of mental health that's apparent.

20:55Yeah. She had extensive treatment. She had severe insomnia. That's no excuse. I have severe insomnia too. Yeah. And I imagine most new mothers because the the youngest was only eight months. Yeah. Have insomnia. I think that that's just part of that's part of that. That's part of yeah, I was going to say that's that's part of the the right of passage. And like the the argument that people are making about how she had a bunch of medication interactions and that her doctors weren't taking proper care of her. And so forth. Part of that is because she like went around doctor shopping. Oh, yeah. I mean, like she got prescriptions from a number of different doctors didn't tell them that she was seeing other doctors or had other prescriptions. Wow. They can't trust. Well, they probably should be able to at the pharmacy, I would think, but. Oh, I guess if you use different pharmacy, man, you could use different pharmacies. That's easy enough to do too. Interesting. I wasn't aware of any of that.

21:55Your health records are supposed to be confidential. They used to be anyway. Yeah, but I mean, you're talking to like you're going from one doctor to the other. The doctors ought to have access to what the conversations you've had with other doctors. Yeah. So. Well, not if you're not willing to share that information. I mean, I maybe I don't know. It seems like a great area. The same system, yeah, probably because they all share the same record keeping system or whatever, but you can avoid that. Yeah. I mean, it's not so easy here because there's only like two. I don't know. Anyway, like, and here's another one of those things that could go both ways. Like she did do online searching about hallucinations and psychosis and so forth beforehand. But then you have to ask the question, is she doing that because she's experiencing it? Or is she doing that because she wants to present it? Yeah, that would be the question. You know, and as far as those episodes are concerned, there was a forensic psychiatrist

22:59brought in by the prosecution, but they're they're an expert. Like it's an expert testimony that testified that Clancy's description of the voice was inconsistent with what he would ordinarily expect from psychotic hallucinations. Really? Yeah. Yeah. So like to me, this isn't a whole lot different than the the son of Sam murderer claiming that he was getting instructions from Harvey the Labrador. Yeah. Yeah. Because he claimed to be getting instructions from the dog from the dog. Yeah. Now that one didn't really like he ended up pleading guilty and then he confessed to making up the whole Harvey the dog thing later. Yeah. So, but that could still be parallel. Yeah. Yeah. And like nobody was blaming the dog. Right. I mean, I guess the dog wasn't competent to stand trial, but that's kind of the question. We never took talk back then.

24:00No, it's not. Well, you know, there's all this talk about post-partum psychosis and I'm not dismissing it. This is something that probably should be talked about. It is a real thing. Yeah. It is distinct from post-partum depression. So the people that are like, I experienced post-partum depression. I know what it's like. No, it's not the same thing. Also, you didn't kill your kids most likely. Yeah. Well, we hope. In most cases. It is a distinct, it is distinct from post-partum depression. But I think that we should be talking about tiktok psychosis. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of where I think the problem. That's kind of the problem that I want to do address. And I guess, you know, like we kind of big long lead up to this conversation. Yeah. I mean, you know, I guess it's important to know about what was going on in the trial for those that didn't already know what was going on in the trial. But like the thing that drew my attention to it, like I remember when this happened in 2023.

25:06Yeah. Like I remember the event. I remember the case coming up. But I had, like I hadn't even, I had forgotten about it. Yeah. Until like a couple of weeks ago when I was confronted with people reporting on thousands of women posting Instagram and tiktok pictures and videos of them holding their infants crying with the caption, same Lindsay. Yeah. That's pretty creepy. This is disturbing. Yeah. And I've seen some, like I know what you're talking about. Like I've seen those, some of those videos. Yeah. I mean, so my first thought is if like if I was the guy in any of these relationships, if like one of those girls was my girl. Yeah. And I found out that she'd been posting this kind of thing. Next opportunity I'd got, I would take that baby and disappear. And she'd never see either one of us again. That was my first thought.

26:06Yeah. And like I have, that was like a visceral reaction to it. Yeah. Like I've got a more nuanced reaction to it now. And like it comes back around a fear again. Yeah. Like I understand being a mother is hard. Yeah. You don't sleep. It's physically exhausting. It's yeah, like I get it. I mean, I can't even, obviously I haven't had the experience. I can't describe like all the problems that arise with it. But I, and I can't say that I understand, but I understand that there are these issues. Yeah. Like I realize that being a new mother is hard. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Trying to take that away at all. Yeah. Most do not kill their children. Yeah. But the, like I've taken a more nuanced view in that I can imagine that probably a lot of these are people that

27:07feel like they're at the end of their rope too. And they're like, I get it and this terrifies me that somebody could lose control to this level. Yeah. And do this. Yeah. And that's why you're posting these videos. Now, either way, Even that may be charitable because the truth is, is the reason I think that they're posting the videos is because they're looking for the views and the interaction. Well, yes. Which is a problem. Yeah. And I want to get to that too. And like the other thing is, did you, did you ever read in cold blood? I have not. The Truman Capote. Okay. So I read this earlier this year. And I also, okay, have you ever seen the movie Capote with Philip Seymour Hoffman as Truman Capote? I don't think so, but it does kind of ring a bell maybe. I don't know. Okay. That I highly recommend both, by the way. Like the book is really good. And Philip Seymour Hoffman is just awesome.

28:10Like it was, I guess, the past way a while back. But, but he's, he's phenomenal in the film because he's almost always phenomenal. And it's, it's very good. And, and I started kind of like drawing a parallel here with a in cold blood. Because Truman Capote does like really try to humanize these murderers that win. And for those that don't know the story, it's, like it happens, the murder happens right at the beginning. So it's, I'm not spoiling anything. The horror. The book is really about the journalistic investigation into the murders. And following the actual investigation and learning more about the perpetrators and so on and so on. Yeah. It's very well put together. It's beautifully written. And are you being attacked by something? What's going on there? Yeah, here. Oh, okay.

29:10Well, there's plenty of that in this house. So, but, but he does a really interesting, like he really goes out of his way to humanize these two people. Yeah. And to create some sympathy for them. And their circumstances, both that they were in at the time and that they grew up in. Yeah. But he doesn't excuse them. Yeah. From the actions that they took. But it's, it's valuable to understand how people end up getting where they got. Yeah. I mean, and these are two people that went into a country house, family home, in the night, tied up the four members of the family, two of them teenagers and shot them in the head. Wow. Yeah. And so, like it was, you know, he titled it in cold blood. Like they were brutal. It was brutal murders.

30:11And so, but he does present them as people. Yeah. Like with their humanity, with their problems, with something that I think today probably would be used as excuses for their actions. Yeah. But he doesn't excuse them for their actions. So, I can see how you can sympathize with this woman, how you can feel bad for her, that you can see these as excuses, but not excuse her for murdering her three children. Yeah. And it worries me that as a society that we are like accepting that these things are excuses for murder. Like I don't care how bad your life is, it's not an excuse for murder. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what else to say other than obviously. It is not unjust to hold you accountable for those murders, no matter how, like, no matter what your life situation is. I'm sorry. Yeah. And so, I, you know, It's hard for us to have a productive society otherwise.

31:13Yeah. I mean, what my opinion is, one way or another, she should go away for the rest of her life. Yeah. I mean, that should be what the question is, is whether or not she's going to jail or going to an asylum. Right. I mean, that should be what the question is. But it's not. Yeah. The question is whether she should be held accountable at all. Yeah. And, you know, this is another one of those gender-privileged moments. Yeah. All right. Like, if this had been the husband that did this, there wouldn't be any sympathy for him at all. Yeah. Yeah. They're just wooden. Like, there is a kind of a long-standing cultural tendency to view women who commit extraordinary violence through a lens of victimhood or suffering or what have you. Yeah.

32:13That there was some outside force that caused them to do this, not that they should be held accountable on their own for it. Yeah. And that doesn't exist for men. Yeah. Men are just kind of expected to commit extraordinary violence. Yeah. And it's like some kind of wonder when we don't. Yeah. You know, but there's never any question about whether the men should be held accountable for it. Yeah. Right. If Son of Sam had been talking to a Labrador, I don't think that would have resulted in him getting off. Yeah. Yeah. If he was proven that he was talking to a Labrador, I don't think that that would have been sufficient to excuse him from justice. And we wouldn't have thought twice about it. Right. You know. Yeah. Um, if like I, I, I, I understand if you feel compassion for this woman,

33:16right? Like I get that. Yeah. But let's not forget who the real victim is here. And I think that that's probably what's really bothering me about it is that I see that the three murdered children are being displaced in this discussion. They're being treated like furniture. Yeah. Instead of the people that they were and could have been. Yeah. And that, um, that kind of terrifies me as a reflection on the society that we live in now. And like I talk about the tiktok psychosis, um, I read, uh, also earlier this year, a book, uh, by this German Korean philosopher called the burnout society, which is the fact I thought was fascinating. Yeah. By the way, it's, um, I don't want to, I don't want to try and summarize that it's only like 50 pages. Like go out and read it. Also, it's short.

34:17Yeah. Yeah. Go on and read it. It's a pamphlet really. Okay. I guess a little bit more than pamphlet less than a book. Yeah. Um, it would be less than a novella if it was fiction, but it's a philosophy. Yeah. Um, and I found it really interesting, but I pulled this quote from it at the time because I, I thought that this was like really insightful about social media. Um, he said in social networks, the function of friends is primarily to heightened narcissism by granting attention as consumers to the ego exhibited as a commodity. Hmm. All right. So to break that down into like normal English. Yeah. Um, he's saying that the, the, the, uh, your connections on social media, their primary purpose to you is to, um, inflate your own ego, uh, by granting attention to like you as a person, like you're selling off your personality, your experiences, et cetera, et cetera,

35:20right. As a commodity for likes and attention. Yeah. All right. Um, and the, the, like they're not friends in any kind of traditional sense. They're just there to be an audience. I was fixing to say that's exactly what I was fixing to say. That's that your friends are your audience. Yeah. Um, which a lot of people, I mean, I think back to even when I was like in middle school, like a lot of people, that's how they viewed their friends anyway. Well, it didn't real life. Like that was like everybody like, yeah, always putting on the show, like everybody's kind of the audience, but social media is no, the difference I would say is that social media, that's strictly their purpose, you know, yeah. So these women, like they have incorporated their, their own infants into this performance. And that's kind of the problem with the, with these things. Yeah. You know, beyond the, like I'm potentially homicidal towards my child. Yeah. Like leaving that aside, assuming that that's not actually like what they're feeling.

36:24If they're just kind of identifying this woman, you know, I don't know, it's hard for me to imagine, I guess. Like, yeah. But if it's like, oh, this, this story about this woman who lost control scares me. Could I have this experience in my life? Like that, you know, I need to talk to somebody about it. Yeah. Or whatever. Or that's one thing, but the, That's way different from what's going on. Well, yeah, but like doing it, doing that on TikTok or Instagram is like, here's me with my little infant, identifying with the most emotionally charged person in today's news cycle. Yeah. Look at me having this experience. Yeah. And like the first one of those things is introspection.

37:24The second one is performance. Yeah. Absolutely. Right. So and like with the social networks, the attention is the currency. Yeah. So it doesn't even matter what you believe, but like you, now you've drawn your infant into this performance. Yeah. Identifying with a woman that murdered her children. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. That's that's the part that bothers me about this whole, this whole situation. And it's the the existence of the audience that that changes how we, how we experience and we express our own feelings. Yeah. Question is how do we fix it? Get rid of social media. Yeah. No, so my honestly, my answer is. So I think, I think the answer I posted on the Liberty Might page this week, I'll put the internet back where it belongs when a computer in a room.

38:24Stop carrying it around everywhere. Now I know that a lot of people pointed it out when I posted it that I can do that. Yeah. But the problem is is me doing that's not going to fix society. I mean, maybe that's you do what you can and that's one person is better than none. But you know, we've let the genie out of the bottle here and I don't know how we go back. There's no putting it back. The thing is that people just have to make their own decisions that this is bad for them. Yeah. I mean, like remember that all of these. And I know it is. Like I spend a lot of time on my phone with social media. Yeah. And I know it's bad for me. Like I know it is. I don't at all. But you do it anyway. I know you don't, but I'm just talking about myself. Like, you know, and I don't spend as much time on it as a lot of people. But I know anytime I spend there's probably too much. Yeah. Well, you just have to remember that all of these social media sites are meant to be addictive.

39:25And they are. And they are very successful at it. Of course, actually, we probably should have talked about that case that was settled out of court last week. I don't know. Not aware. Metta, I guess, paid out a settlement to a bunch of states about their platform, about Instagram, I think in particular, being targeted to be addictive to children. Now, the truth is it's addictive to everybody. It's not just children. Yeah, they're worried. The cases come because, oh my god, the children. Yeah. But someone please think of the children. Yeah. But yeah, it's that's, I don't know the details of all of that, but it applies to everybody. Well, all things considered it wasn't that big a settlement considering how much they're revenue is. Yeah. But I mean, it is a step that way, but it's like start thinking about it's not just the kids. It's the adults too.

40:26And that the, like, we all know that the goal is to keep you there. Yeah. Is to keep you scrolling. Keep you, keep you clicking and you looking at new stuff. Even that's true of every product. This is not unique to social media, but for whatever reason, social media is, well, apparently, they've figured out how to do them. It's like, pringles. Like, yeah, all of these products, the idea is for you to consume more of it. Yeah. So social media would be no different. There's a clip that I heard on No Agenda, and I heard on something else. I heard in a couple of different places, I guess, of this, like, man on the street thing, asking people about the Lindsey Clancy. Oh, I heard it on No Agenda, yeah. All right. I know it's when you're talking about it. And the guy saying, well, I don't know much about it, but my girlfriend watches three hours of TikTok every day about it. Yeah. Three hours of TikTok. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And that's, I'll be honest, like, that's not unusual.

41:28Yeah. Three hours may be low for some people. Probably is. I know when I get my phone gives me a report every week of how much time I spend on my phone a day. Now, this includes phone calls and text messages and everything. That's been like three hours on my phone a day. Wow. Which is a lot. Like, I mean, every time I see it, I'm like, shit, like, but like I said, I don't like those reports. I wonder how much time I spend on there. It's it. I don't think it's three hours a day. But I get it every Sunday. It sends me a little notification of the average for the week each day. Yeah. To be fair, I spend a half hour to 45 minutes on do a lingo every day. That's on your phone. I know. Yep. It's on my phone. You can get it in. Like learning a language and doing chess. So you lessons. If you go into that, like, because I get that notification, but there's a setting or something on your phone somewhere you can go to get that breakdown of what, how long you spend in each app. Yeah.

42:28You can get it for the day, for the week, like all that information's available. So if you were ever curious, and I get I just get the three hour thing. I'm like, well, that was too much. Yeah. Three hours a day. Yeah. Like, so that's everything though. I haven't looked at the breakdown of how much of that social media versus how much of that is like we're related phone calls. Yeah. So, Well, I guess what I'm trying to get at is like put the goddamn phone down. Yeah. No, I mean, I'm with you. That's the moral of the story, right? And like I said, like the post I put up, like, if ideally we would just put the internet back where it belongs, we never should have let it out of the room and the computer room. Yeah. Like the scary room and the ghosts. Like the scary room and the ghosts. Not just women, but mostly women. In this are the ones that are like think that they're doing their own investigation on this and determining that the man is responsible. And especially when they start saying, well, she's a Leo and so she would never kill her cubs

43:34and he's a Gemini. If you see, apparently that's where this all started. Saturn is in the house of blah, blah, blah. I like Bridget Fettisd said something like if women were in charge, astrological charts would be permissible in court. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Which is that scary. Yeah. Frightening in and of itself. And like I, through some of this, I have thought, man, I am so glad that I'm not attached to any women. There's been some moments in this. I have, I have not thought that because I love women. At least one. Well, I guess at least three. I was gonna say I love women. My wife, I got two girls. And my mom, I love all kinds of women. I just mean like, okay, so imagine if you reached a point, like if you had a, for me, I was thinking like imagine if I had a serious relationship. Yeah. And this became like a sticking point. Orcument.

44:35Yeah. Between us. Yeah. It could. Well, I mean, I've heard people like, people's relationships ending over this case. Really? I haven't heard that. I mean, we experienced the same thing through COVID. And something you said a minute ago about like people going in and like blaming the husband. And like I said, I haven't looked at that's part of the reason I say I haven't looked at the case. I mean, a lot of people are making a very passionate argument that that he did it. Yeah. And like I say, and I don't want to dismiss that because I do not have not looked into it well enough to have an opinion on that. Yeah. But he was caught on camera in a Walgreens at the time the murders were occurring. Fair enough. I mean, and like I said, the the defences and even trying to make the case that she didn't do it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the internet, the internet, the case she didn't held responsible. I'm telling you, the internet is making the case that and I, it so,

45:38but I just, the whole thing I wanted to get to was thinking back to COVID with the whole do your own research. Like a lot of people were on us about doing our own research. And how like, you know, I'm not an epidemiologist in the whole nine yards. So I just, that to me, that's just kind of one of those slippery slopes where like I don't want to like make the argument to not do your own research. Now your own research probably needs to be a little more in TikTok. Yeah. Well, you know, you might just say, don't quit your day job as a board housewife to become a detective. It probably won't work out for you. Yeah. Well, maybe. Like say, I ain't seeing all the evidence. Maybe you did do it. I don't know. So I'm all I'm saying is I don't know. And I'm, isn't it possible? Yes, exactly. Turn into the ancient aliens guy. George George E. Stucalos. Yeah. See, still alive. No, he died. Oh, that's a shame.

46:38Yeah. You know, he got his start as a bodybuilder. Really? Like, yeah, he ran some bodybuilding magazine before he got into the ancient aliens. Yeah, look like the type. Are you kidding? I'm really the only like the spray tan and the oh, maybe. I mean, when I, is a big dude, I only think of us here. Maybe that's my problem. I guess you only saw him from like the upper chest up. Yeah, because I've only seen clips of that show. I haven't actually watched that. Yeah. Now he's a big, he's a big guy. I'm wasn't. Yeah. Okay. But, nuts. Well, you know, but like that was the thing that I always got. And I have to be honest about it. Like, I, you know, I am, I'm a skeptic, but I recognize that there are more possibilities than just my own. Yeah. So he would ask like the most bizarre question of, isn't it possible that aliens came from Orion and taught the Egyptians how to build the pyramids. And they used anti-gravity devices to move those big blocks.

47:39And so why did they need all the slaves here? No, but, etc. And I would say, well, I mean, I wasn't there. Yeah. Like I definitely can't like out melt this prove it. Yeah. I can't disprove this. I guess I have to admit that it is possible. It is probably the least likely of the possibilities. And to give him credit, he's only saying, isn't it possible? Yeah. He's not making the claim solidly either. But, but not all options are equal. You don't think so. That's, that's the point that we can't forget. Not all options are equal. I will say this because I've been, I'll just plug it. I've been listening to the Wi-Fi. I was a lot. And it's, it's fascinating to me how much I don't know and how much we just don't know about the universe. Like it's, it's absolutely fascinating to me. So maybe it was, all of that to say maybe it was aliens. Maybe.

48:40Least likely of the possibilities, but maybe. Maybe. I, yeah. She, she killed these kids. All right. I mean, I'm, I'm agnostic on this. I'm just saying that if there was even a, like the remotest possibility that she didn't do it, I think her defense team would what trying to what if he was the voices she was hearing? Well, that's the argument that some of these people are making. I've heard that argument. That, well, but then I would go back to that forensic psychiatrist. You said that her description of her, the voices she was hearing don't match psychotic episodes because she wasn't having a psychotic episode that was Patrick. He somehow slipped some kind of transmitting device into her ear just behind her, her, her, her ear drum. Yeah. And so it can't be found now.

49:41And like, because he's really that great an engineer. No, sorry. You're not buying it. I'm not buying it. I think that it would be a real mistake in this country to let this woman go free. Well, I am interested. I think it's very likely that they're going to retry her. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion. I don't think so either. Which is why I kind of why I wanted to talk about it. Yeah. I mean, I know we do a lot of like sky is falling. Yeah. Kind of stuff on this and I apologize for that. I mean, is this ultimately going to end in the destruction of the nation? Like this one event? No. No, but nations don't usually end under one catastrophic event. It's a series of events that lead. And we've already went down. I mean, we're we've already seen so many events. Like I'm just saying this could this could just be another plank.

50:42Yeah. I'm just saying that I think it's a it's a huge mistake to give people exoneration based on stress and hormones and depression and so forth. Yeah. Like I'm sorry, you still have to be held accountable. Like I have been I have lost control. Yeah. Like I'm not going to say that I've never lost control. I have lost control. I have never killed anybody. And even when I've lost control, like I have regained that control relatively quickly. Yeah. Certainly less time than it takes to take three people one by one down into the basement and strangled them. Yeah. I mean, I've been accused of having a temper. And it's probably true. But I've never lost control in that man. And that's that's the other argument that I've actually been making as far as the whole losing just she just lost control argument. Like it's one thing and not condone and they're saying it'd be right.

51:44But it's one thing to lose control and to take a shotgun and kill a couple of people. It's another to haul them down to the basement one by one and strangle them to even do that once. Because strangling is just such a more direct way. It's a very personal right? It's very personal. So my mom and I were talking about this a couple of weeks ago. Like she made a point that I think is really important to consider in this. Like we understand crimes of passion. Yeah. Like it doesn't excuse the event. But we do understand crimes of passion. And in fact, my father who is FBI used to say from time to time that he thought that the offenses that should get the most jail time were things like armed robbery, not murder. He's saying in most cases when somebody commits a murder it was a very specific set of events. Yeah. And that person would never commit another act like that as long as they live.

52:48Yeah. And in fact, if they hadn't been in that specific position at that specific time, it wouldn't have happened. It wouldn't have happened. Yeah. That most murders were crimes of passion. But things like armed robbery were things that people did over and over and over and over again in their life. It was a pattern of life. Yeah. But we're saying, okay, so you walk in on your, there's the big difference between walking in on your spouse and bed with somebody else in your bed. And like grabbing the baseball bat that you keep behind the door and beating them to death or pulling the pistol out of the bedside table and shooting them both. Yeah. And that same event walking in and seeing your spouse and bed with somebody in your bed with somebody else quietly backing out of the room and planning over the next couple of weeks how you were going to take them both out. Yeah. Those are two very different things. Now, and the ability to plan does not necessarily preclude like some kind of psychosis or legal

53:51insanity for that matter. But it seems very clear to me that this woman was like was coldly calculating what to do. Yeah. Yeah. That's my opinion. Yeah. And I'm not on the jury. And I'm not a Massachusetts. So I never will be. Unless they move it somewhere else. They're going to move it to lower Alabama and here they go. That would be a mistake on their part. Yeah, I don't think that anybody's allowed to have that. If they're going to want to get that woman off after killing her three children, the lower Alabama is not the place you want to have that trial. Not where they're heading. Yeah. Their best bet is Massachusetts probably. Yeah. Well, clearly from what we know of the jury. Washington State, like Seattle area or something. Yeah. Portland. Yeah. Oregon. I don't know. San Francisco. There are places. But yeah, lower Alabama is not one of them. Not on the list. No. I think that like going back to the the social media thing.

54:56I think that this phenomena has become really bad for a number of other reasons too. I think that the social media issue and the whole performative life experience and so forth. Like part of the result is this issue where people's opinions become like their definition of their personal identity. Yeah. Right. I don't think that that was really the case when I was growing up. I mean, like some opinions were a part of your identity. But that's not really how you define yourself. It was just like a part of your identity. But I think that there's a lot of case now where people's opinions are becoming the definition of themselves. And when your opinions become your identity, disagreement becomes a personal attack. Yeah. And I think that that's a lot of the reason that

55:57that there's so much animosity between groups. Yeah. Today. Like the reason that the camps seem to keep dividing more and more and more and more and more. Like not into smaller camps, but farther and farther apart. Just a part. Yeah. Well, and there's a lot more camps. Like everybody has their own little camp. Yeah, I guess they're dividing more too, but they're also putting more space between. Defiving more apart. And there's no way to bridge it because like you can't have a discussion about something that's an opinion. It like comes back around. This thing that I see on the dating apps all the time is people that it's mostly people on the left, but it happens on the right too. Like most of what you'll see is if your MAGA don't even contact me. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you see it the other way too, but mostly. If you're MAGA contact me. No, well, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's kind of actually.

56:59That's generally how it's presented. Rather than exclusionary, it's like a. This is one of my people. This is my tribe. I'm looking for you. But like I'm always tempted because you know, I'm not on either side of this. Right. You don't have a tribe. I mean, I have a tribe. It's just a very, very small. How does it go? You're not big. And the TPs are like pretty separate, with just kind of one or two people in each one anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, but I'm always tempted to, to like comment on these and just say like, do you think that this is productive? Yeah. Like, okay, you're, you're in my position, right? Like you're 40 something years old. You are still single. Like you're looking for somebody. Do you think that excluding all the MAGA people while you're living in South Alabama? Yeah. Yeah. Is maybe the best idea if this is what you, if you're trying to find somebody.

58:02I mean, does it occur to you? Like I bet that you could find somebody who supports Donald Trump, who would treat you really well. Yeah, but they'd be a racist. And you can't tolerate a disagreement of opinion. And it's an opinion, honestly, that really does not matter at all. Like you're going to, going to refuse to meet somebody because you have a difference of opinion between two bad options that are, if you really examine them, are pretty much the same. Anyone? I was fix to say, that's where I was exactly fixing to say is like the two sides are so much closer together than we like to admit. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, our system is so broken. Yeah. So, and I just, I don't understand. Why is it that important? I don't care about, like when I'm looking for somebody, like, you know, when I'm looking for a girlfriend, I don't care what her politics are. Yeah. I've dated people on the left, I've dated people on the right,

59:03I've dated people that were apolitical. Yeah. None of it's worked out. Wow. But the point is that it's like, like that is irrelevant to me. And politics is a big part of my life. Like I'm, I'm active. I'm involved. But I still wouldn't like reject somebody because they disagreed with me about that. Well, because we don't have, and I'll always say this as far as politics, and I, I thought I'm with you like, I'm free, actively reject somebody because they disagree with me. Yeah. Because I mean, I follow this stuff the same way, but at the same time, like none of us have any real control here either way. Like, I mean, like, even when I'm arguing with buddies and friends over politics, when we disagree with something, I mean, at the end of the day, none of us have any control. Like it's going to be what it's going to be. Yeah. You know, none of us are, none of us have our finger on the button. Well, you've just defeated the whole purpose of this podcast. Well done. It's the end of it. Well, I mean, the games change in people's minds, but at the same time, I'm not going to lose friends over the fact that, you know,

1:00:06you voted for Kamala versus Trump. Like, guess what? They both suck. Yeah, exactly. You know, there's no winning here. Exactly. You're like, you're, you're given two bad options, and you think that the other one is somebody that you cannot deal with. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Well, that's just a closed-minded attitude that I don't understand. Yeah. No, I'm with you. I have very few restrictions. I look for a thin. Once again, sell Alabama. Fit. Let's see, you know, I figure if you can't be bothered to take care of yourself, then how are you going to take care of me? Which is what this is really all about, right? I'm just ruining my chance. And nobody listen to this podcast is my type, I think. Because I bet our audience is at like 95% male. Maybe.

1:01:07Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I couldn't, I could be wrong. You mean, just tend to be like, that's the libertarian world. Yeah. It's not quite 90% probably. But like, you go to the conventions and they're not a lot of women. It's a small, it's a minority. Yeah. And the women that are there with men. That's almost exclusively true, too. Yes. Yeah. All right. Well, so my world is lost. Better luck next to all this lost moment right here at the end. Okay. Well, there was something else I wanted to talk about, but can we? I was going to say we don't have something positive to close out on. This was depressing. Yeah. After you listen to this podcast, yeah, put down your damn phone. Until next week, when you use the time to listen. The podcast, yeah. When it's time to listen to this podcast again. Yeah. That's the purpose of your phone going forward. Is to listen to this podcast. Exclusively to listen to the Liberty Mike.

1:02:08Okay. And answer phone calls and send text messages. No social media for you. Yeah. All right. You'll be a better person for it. We'll make you a happier person. It will definitely make you a happier person. All right. Well, we'll go ahead and close out because we're over an hour. Yeah. And I'm hungry. So yeah, we'll we'll be back next week. Or is it? Okay. We'll be back next week. In the meantime, you can follow us on Facebook. You can subscribe. I'm not iTunes YouTube. Podbean. Yeah, those are important. So like, you know, go do all of that. How else am I supposed to communicate? Do it from your computer. Yeah, we really have just destroyed the purpose of this podcast. On this podcast. We really have. All right. Well, anyway, however you listen to us, we'll be back next week when we finally get this right.

1:03:09And it'll be time to try to stay free. Well, I'm short. Live free. Ciao. Later.