3/19/26 Patrick Pillow on Washington’s Preferred Method of Regime Change

0:00We're dealing with Hitler revisited this is the Scott Hortish show libertarian foreign policy mostly When the president does it that means that it is not only we're gonna take out seven countries They don't know what the fuck they're doing Negotiate now and this war and now here's your host Scott Hortish All right, y'all Introducing Patrick Pillow aka libertarian overwatch over on the sub-stack here is his site and Anatomy of a regime change the latest here. I think it's the latest one yet is regime change Kyrgyzstan 2005, but check this out. Here's the list. Here's my point

1:05Look at this list guys. He's done these great pieces on all of the color-coded revolutions of the Bill Clinton and W. Bush years And I don't know if you'll get as far as the Maidan, but I guess he must probably do that Of course he tried to overthrow Bill Rousse again in 2020. Don't forget but here so check out 1997 Montenegro 98 Armenia 99 Slovakia 2000 Serbia 2001 Philippines 2002 Madagascar and Venezuela 2003 Georgia part one and two 2004 Ukraine one and two 2005 Lebanon and now here he's got Kyrgyzstan and what fun to read what great work you've done here and Why don't we start with tell us what is it got you interested in This subject and made you decide to go back and review each of these color-coded regime changes in this way Yeah, well first of all, thank you for having me I think one of the biggest things that got me into it is this book over here. I don't know if you've ever seen it before

2:06Because reading this book here. I know that guy that wrote them And so yeah, I was just there's certain topics that I get really interested in and when I was reading provoked I was really honing in on the rose revolution really looking at the orange revolution and especially like how in depth they went And it seemed like for each revolution there seemed to be like a lot of characters involved a lot of themes involved And it seemed that it was almost like one big story which at this point especially as I do more and more research as we go along It just seems like the lessons that were learned in Serbia in 2000 are still being applied in Belarus in 2006 and From there. So it's been really interesting to find all the quotes from different sources from international ones from domestic ones What was the time saying? What was the Washington Post saying? You know, what were they saying in the German papers or the Ukrainian weekly and things like that? It's taken a lot to get it all together into like one cohesive story But it's been a really interesting project so far and yes, I hope to bring it all the way up to modern day by the end of this project so

3:08That's great Well, yeah, I mean all these essays have just been fantastic. I'm learning a bunch from I kind of hate stuff like this because then I'm kicking myself going I don't even have a thing about that especially when it's something that I remember reading that But I don't remember why I decided that I could do without that fact when now I look at it and like oh, that should definitely be in there all Anyway, in other words you do you're doing a great job on this stuff and to me it's endlessly fascinating. You know of course You know we covered all this stuff in real time at anti-war comm and I'm real lucky. I was working for just Ramondo It x-ray eyes on all this stuff at that time But of course the big doons was a rock or two took all the attention away and you might even say these were legitimate in comparison But mostly the point being that they were overshadowed by a rock or two and only people who really cared about this stuff We're zooming all the way in on what happened in the Rose Revolution and things like that so

4:12But all of it of course is so crucial so I wanted to drop one more footnote here before we go on I know you mentioned a lot about Mark McKinnon in his great book The New Cold War And now that's Mac Kinnon not Mick Kinnon because Nick Kinnon is a Republican strategist guy from DC And Mac Kinnon is from the Toronto Daily Globe and Mail Up there in Canada stand and So Different guys and he did such great work in that book covering these things and so I know that you gave him a lot of credit And so I figured I never did interview him because I was just too much of a hurry when I was right and provoked I was only really doing like one interview a week of Kyle Anselone about Gaza or whatever and trying to keep my nose the grandson But I should have interviewed him. I'm sure there's really a lot there. But anyway, so I guess let me ask you this Patrick Like how would you characterize the thing overall?

5:14What is a color coded revolution or maybe what are the color coded revolutions and what's the point? Yeah, I would say It's funny going back to To Justin mentioning his older articles on anti-war I was actually looking at his going all the way to the start going to like the year 2000 and when the first I would consider the first big one to be Serbia in 2000 with the bulldozer revolution It is really funny kind of comparing it where in 2000 Justin is talking a lot about how Someone else was saying, oh, this is all any deed. This is CIA and Justin goes away a second And then to look at his next article where he's talking about some of it in 2006 and it was I believe called The color revolutions turn to black and just what you mentioned right in between there There's this big event called Iraq war two which would definitely lead you to have a much different perception on some of these revolutions and things like that He got in a lot of trouble with you know because he was so good on the coast of a war of course But he got in a lot of trouble with the anti-war party when it came to the bulldozer revolution because he actually supported

6:18Costa Nica I believe is the guy Who was the NED's chosen compromise? But Justin was just so fed up with Melissa Vitch at that point He was saying this is overall what would be better for the country is to have this more free market leaning guy in And then a lot of people were really pissed because they were like no Justin This is the American sock puppet and whatever so I'm not sure if he ever admitted that he made a bad call on that one or not But he certainly We always try to make up for in no three and no four and oh five. That's for sure, but Yeah, absolutely And I mean I think the biggest thing with these is I like to try to take it on Where I'm kind of trying to prove a case essentially where I don't want to over emphasize any one particular area I just kind of like to look at from a whole collection of sources In fact right now I've been working on the Belarus one and we're getting a lot of different information And still trying to put that timeline There are three Or Belarus and Justin said that should say

7:20Belarus Yes, yes, okay, we're looking at that one at the the jeans revolution and things like that And I will say one of the biggest things that I've come to discover as well is just how crucial The internet has played in a lot of these revolutions So especially with Kyrgyzstan part two will be coming for Kyrgyzstan next Wednesday But you're actually able to find on internet archives the youth groups and figure out the time what are they saying? You know what are the movements that they're going to be doing next you know What's our next plan and especially in Belarus with the jeans revolution? They're really talking it on in fact It goes all the way back to 2001 and you can even see their logo change as it goes on Initially their logo with the bison same color scheme as Opor in Serbia And then right around September of 2005 right before the jeans revolution happens You can see it changed to the bison and the jeans logo and things like that So I think it's been really interesting using sources like that In fact today I found one that was called the March Diaries And it's someone who was on the ground at the time and ended up getting arrested

8:23During the jeans revolution and being able to kind of talk about how the protests as they started on Sunday It was a whole big crowd but then as it went on especially with the cold And you know how some of it was cracking down and things like that By later in the week it was hardly anyone there And in fact in Macatamus has a really great article on anti-war.com about it I think he was on there on Wednesday when the revolution started on Sunday So as the week went on just seeing it go down and down things like that But then another really important source is just going to the NED website Going to the open society foundation website When I was looking at Georgia their television was Rustavi 2 And on the open society's foundation website they even say in their year in review Yes, open societies and USAID played a very crucial part in Rustavi 2 Which was then responsible for the exit polls which led to a lot of the revolution in Georgia and things like that So it's really been interesting just taking all the different sources and things like that

9:24And in fact for the Belarus one that we were just looking at You saw the OSCE and then you also have the CIS The different kind of ones that are compiling the election information And it's just so drastic on one side you're hearing they're free and they're fair And then on the other side nope there is all this fraud and things like that So trying to make sense of it all too you know trying to take my biases aside And figure out like hey what's the real story here And when I'm working on them I try to make sure that I can answer it myself Where I'm able to say have I sufficiently answered it to myself Like if I were reading this what I'd be like hey what's the answer here So I really I don't complete it until I'm like okay I think of answer what I need to know for each one of these you know Yeah Hey guys Scott here from Mundo's artisan coffees It's the Scott Horton show flavored coffee breakfast blend That's part Ethiopian parts of mantra it's really good All you do is go to scotthorton.org slash coffee And they'll forge you on there to Mundo's artisan coffees

10:24Get it they hate Starbucks because they represent the war party of course And so they're Mundo's and they support peace And guess what? Scott Horton show coffee is the number one best selling coffee at Mundo's artisan coffees Right now just go again to scotthorton.org slash coffee Well I feel like you're picking up some of my slack where I might have Delved into some of these things a little bit deeper but yeah I was right up about 14 Hundred pages at that time so I had to quit somewhere But you know one thing that I remember really kind of being Maybe even overwhelmed by it was like the number of journal articles about this in all the fancy pants journals From all kinds of academics across Europe and the United States I mean there's the Journal of Democracy which is I guess the NED directly or one of their front groups But then there are just so many journal articles and once you pay your dues to get the J-Store membership

11:25And a couple of those others that I went ahead and got when I was researching for provote And it's just endless how many you know like I had this whatever I'm out of space to fill any more in here about what happened here But there's so much where you know it's like Here's what we did here's what we learned here's how we can do better next time in the most like over it way Like that would just be an internal memo at regime change headquarters Which they're perfectly happy to put in a journal and tell you I think I have a sort of anecdote in the book about About that Koop McFall where he has One article where he says it was totally these groups that did it He has another article and he says that didn't have anything to do with us totally organic And he has another article where it's like all these groups are backed by us

12:25And then in the third article he's like okay we backed these groups to do the thing Yeah, come on man, like who do you think you're fooling with this stuff? It's something very close to that anyway, it's in the book But anyway, I should ask you a question so You know one of the one thing is and I do feel bad about this But it was a matter of time and space constraint was in my introduction to the color revolutions in there I say yeah So they got away with doing this in Albania and in Slovakia And then I forgot which one maybe not Albania Slovakia and one or two others Before I really get the first one I really cover is the bulldozer revolution I guess I kind of mentioned there's one in Croatia where they were in the middle of overthrowing Tudjman Who was Bill Clinton's buddy who's now stabbing the back and overthrowing but then he died anyway So it kind of made no difference there there was that kind of thing And so can you take us oh I think Montenegro was one of the first ones And this is where I asked Dan McAdams I was like man I really need to go back and get

13:27I actually did fine if I remember right if people go to Scott Wharton dot org slash provoked slash notes That's where I have the links to the footnotes there And so you can follow along from the footnotes in the book and find the hot links to the things And he was able to he and some others I was able to find quite a bit of information about some of those earlier ones That I try to just throw in the footnotes even though I didn't have time to get too deep into them myself But can you tell us a little bit about some of your insights into some of the earlier color revolutions there In other words before Debbie Bush got that Yeah yeah I mean those ones I would say the 97 98 99 ones Those are where I was kind of kind of getting my feet in the water as I were So I think the biggest one Armenia is the one that's always kind of stuck out to me Where at the end it seemed like they were actually able to make friends with each other you know the two opposing parties And then as in a lot of these violence kind of interrupted it all

14:30But in that one it was one of the most blatant examples of some of that some of the fraud I think in one district it was like 600% of the people voted this way and so I'm like okay all right But the one thing I will say is yet reaching out to people has been really helpful to figure out some more about this In fact I have been talking to Kit Klanberg and he has been awesome on it He's been able to give me great information about Montenegro and stuff like that And he's been like a really big supporter of all of my stuff which has been really awesome Because he's fantastic on the stuff and he also has a lot of those documents there I'm like I don't know where you find this stuff you know and is able to really give some really good insight into that So with Montenegro I would say he is definitely definitely got the ball in that one But yeah I would say Serbia is the biggest one where we're looking I think the biggest ones that come to my mind is right around you know Serbia is right around the end of Clinton And it's so funny looking at the Washington Post where there is kind of what you talked about earlier Where he's like CIA didn't do this but if they did I mean I wouldn't have a problem with it you know

15:36And I think the total that they said there was between like USAID and the NDI and all of them It ended up being 41 million dollars that was spent towards the selection And I'm pretty sure I do have a source or two in there affirming that yes CIA did help guide this whole thing too It wasn't just any deed doing it Yes yes yeah and it's just that's definitely I would say that's the biggest one Where when I put it all together and I'm even planning on in the future kind of ranking them From the 2000s to 2010 where does foreign influence seem to have the most influence in these elections I would say Serbia is the big one I mean it's kind of like the start of it all as it were It's where you start seeing Mr. Helvi when you start seeing Jean Sharp when you start seeing the bring down a dictator And in fact I'm gonna see if I can find this real quick because I did have this on my laptop here But there's this documentary I don't know if you've ever seen it it's called USA the conquest of the East And it's this French documentary and in it I did have to use Google Translations on Washington because I don't speak French

16:36But I'm watching it and they are in the IRA offices and it is one of them No that's the International Republican Institute tied at they hit with the NED and the Soros groups there go ahead Yes and with Jamaican as well being the chair on IRA And in this documentary they are in there with a leader from Belarus and there is a T-shirt on the wall And you know how when an artist comes to us they're doing like a tour for example right I go I was in Kansas this time I was in New York this day They have this shirt that's in the IRA offices and the tour dates are Georgia 2003 Ukraine 2004 Russia TBD Belarus TBD And I was just watching that and just stunned I couldn't believe what I was looking at it was it was crazy And I'm not saying that Jamaican went in there and printed out the shirt and put it there But I am saying that you know someone who was working for the IRA did put that up and said hey And the guy from Belarus is just commenting on it like yep there we go this is what the T-shirt says over there

17:39So yeah that documentary has been really really fascinating to look at Yeah I've never seen that I've seen a Martin Sheen one which is pretty crazy itself You know they're bringing down a dictator you mentioned Yes and in fact in the French documentary that's where I saw in Kyrgyzstan They're all sitting around a laptop and they're watching the bringing down a dictator And they're all commenting on it and things like that So yeah this documentary is really fascinating stuff They also have some people from different NGOs in Kyrgyzstan talking and things like that Yeah very very fascinating and it's going to be kind of the spoiler But it's going to be the end of my part too of like the transition from Kyrgyzstan into Belarus for the next week Yeah Kyrgyzstan was one where if I remember right I used to have this wrong that it was just like five days apart and whatever And then I triple checked and I was wrong about that but same damn difference anyway Where the Wall Street Journal says yeah we're fixing to overthrow Kyrgyzstan

18:39And here's how we're going to do it And then we're paying this guy and this guy and they run in the printing press We're picking up the bills for all these groups and We're stuck Yeah And they're like yeah then they have I forget where the five days came from Maybe it's five days later the coup happens And then a couple weeks after that the New York Times runs a piece This is here's how we did it This is the Wall Street Journal and here's how we're about to do it And the New York Times going here's how we did it And there you go And in fact, I think it was the journal I forget which one I think it was Kyrgyzstan Where the journal headline was Putin not too pleased about coup in Kyrgyzstan or whatever you know Or like American back color coup there Oh no, that was Georgia I guess Anyway, whatever they're sitting there Oh no, it was a popular uprising And a popular revolution in the Wall Street Journal is like now we did it I Like to quote from a Ukraine 2004 I think I saw it somewhere where you know they're going on to their third round of voting

19:39And Putin's like what are you going to do it 25 more times or what you know was this going to look like at the end of this thing you know so But yeah, that's Ukraine in 2004 is a really really interesting one especially considering Yanukovych is so involved in 2014 as well But just you know looking at and it's fun because I do remember you said it was kind of like a carnival And some guy that you're talking to is like no, it's not a carnival we're talking about I go into the Ukrainian weekly and I see a Political carnival so exactly as you mentioned And yeah, I mean they have these massive concerts there's even a compilation disc where they have of all the people who were performing on stage at that time and things like that And of course that's like we're really starting to see like the tent city and things like that which continues on They're also they tried it in Belarus, but it just did not seem like all the years are working together the youth groups could not bring it together in the way that Porra did in 2004 or Camaro in 2003 they didn't really have those figures and things like that that were able to kind of make another revolution

20:39But yeah, that's been really interesting All right guys, well if you're like me and pretty much everybody else you use amazon.com all the time because what are you going to do they got prime they bring this stuff right So that's fine, but what you do is make sure it's stopped by Scott Wharton dot org and click the Amazon link in the right hand margin there get yourself a bug assault gun Salt shotgun for destroying flies trespassing on your property and then also whatever you get from Amazon and the Scott Wharton show will get a kick back from Amazon's end of the sale which is very nice Yeah, I'm not sure I'm trying to remember that And I may have just been kind of rereading for copy mistakes where I'm finally occurred to me that this footnote from voice of America Where the reporter describes Soros bringing in trucks full of roses for the rose revolution and all this money and everything But that name that

21:39That must be Tucker Carlson's father There it is Richard Carlson is the one which obviously he was some kind of CIA guy And but in that case he's the one rat and on The rest of his friends for what they're doing and putting the whole story in voice of America And it doesn't seem like he's bragging And it really does seem like he's exposing them you know what I mean like I'll get this guy says George sorrows brought all the damn roses and that kind of thing So when I met Tucker that was over the first things I told him That is a footnote in my book talking about the overthrow the government of Georgia in 2003 and then like so we hit it off pretty easy after that But Yeah, I guess I don't I'm curious as to like what was behind that because You know obviously the guy was a Wheeler dealer. He just decided maybe there's like a faction fight in there between the more Democrat leaning types and others or something I don't know

22:39Yeah, was that the was it for ways with the FTD or was it post maybe hosted on the FTD's website but it was from voice of America Oh, I don't Think it was from the FTD. I guess I'd have to go back and look. I think it was just reporting for voice of America. Okay, you know Geez, well, I guess I could find that good night As long as I'm here so okay, tell me here's one that I wish I knew more about the Philippines in 2001 You talk about that. Yeah, absolutely and I think with that one this is what how was I about to Google I just About Richard Carlson. Oh, yeah, yeah, go ahead Yeah, no the Philippines in 2001 was a really interesting one where It's one of those ones where it kind of comes full circle in the end where you may have thought that it was bad at the start

23:39But essentially at the end same kind of thing still happens. So you have Joseph Estrada who is the president at the time and Essentially, there's like a lot of corruption if you're looking at the stock market It's like the companies that his buddy owns is going way off the charts while the regular stock market is like staying at an even level or even going down a little bit So they have a vote and they voted 11 to 10 to keep those records to the side and to not expose them And so essentially this one they did have a popular revolution in 1986 And so they use yellow as like the symbol and things like that and so it's kind of a continuing of it is the EDSA 2 movement And so eventually he gets overtone and like many of these it goes down to where like the military is defecting as well as A lot of the media is not on the side anymore, and so eventually they put in someone in the royal And they even I want to say it was the generals I believe that we're talking to her and she was the vice president at the time and they told her you have no choice

24:43This is kind of what's going to be happening And then it was just a full cycle though by the time Arroyo a few years later same kind of things same kind of corruption They even had like a time magazine article about the Philippine selection I believe it was in 2004 And in fact, I think she even ended up in a mental hospital for a little bit as well too But that one is one where I think that one is absolutely like domestic uprising and things like that Mostly when it comes for like foreign influence and things like that it's mostly Visual US tricks as it was you know, hey, we're not going to give you that much money for military this year unless you know But it did seem like a very genuine domestic uprising and things like that But yeah, that's a really interesting one that I've been able to uncover and talk about a little bit some of the years I would say 2001 and then also 2002 with Madagascar Some of those ones is a little bit harder to find the information about where as we've talked about with George on Ukraine It's just so easy to find some of these sources

25:43But those ones you've had to kind of go out your box a little bit to find some of those ones And where 2001 was very peaceful with the Philippines 2002 it was almost like an apocalyptic kind of mad back style where there's different factions and things like that and like very very violent Uprising and things like that Between a guy who was a former yogurt salesman So those ones have been very interesting to kind of research and It's almost nice to have the ones where there's not as much about it It becomes a little bit of a challenge to find those resources and things like that So especially once I get past Belarus and things like that when I start getting into the later Outside of the green revolution in the round of course But you know there's some of those years where it's like Oh, I'm gonna have to stretch a little bit but I'm gonna try to figure out the case as best I can You know I'm like a detective over here trying to figure out what happened Yeah, you know in the siege of revolution in Lebanon I remember being surprised that they were able to turn out that many people And then of course as Paula turned out twice as many a couple days later and that was the end of that

26:44But they were able to organize a lot of different factions to come together there And And then you know the green revolution in Iran doesn't get as much attention because it was Obama years So it gets kind of separated out from the Bush ones But there was a post by Kenneth Timmerman at Newsmax Talking about how yeah the National Endowment for Democracy has been backing all these groups who are supporting Mousaville in this thing So that wasn't you know like well again just like with Mousaville son of full regime change It's just president change or prime minister change Reject the results of the election and demand that your guy win kind of a thing so But in which of course that one failed and that might have been a clue for this war right Like remember when the Liberals of Tehran tried to help that one guy win that one time and then People of the country made it known that they were all religious conservatives and wouldn't stand for it. Yeah, you know

27:49Which by the way is funny Richard Carlson footnote is At the Washington Examiner which means it's a reprint it's got to be a reprint from the weekly standard But then I'm wondering if that weekly standard piece is a reprint because I remembered it being a voice of America piece But I guess I could just have that wrong But you know by the way if anybody ever wants to go persecute somebody from the weekly standard that you hate And you can't find their stuff because the website's gone the entire archive is there at the Washington Examiner They have reprinted all of the weekly stand I believe all of the weekly standard is there Certainly some of the most incriminating stuff So anyway, I have archive.ph jumping over the paywall for me. Here we go Richard Carlson Georgia on his mind This is his being George Soros here And then You know what it does not say

28:52It does not say who he wrote this for originally maybe he did just write it for the weekly standard Well, let me see control that for roses here. What does he have the thing? I think in my research I do remember at the bottom it was yeah, this is the article where it talks about he bust in the roses To do the thing trucked in from out of the country and all of that. So this is the same article I could have sworn was in the voice of America Well, that's funny the fact that it's in the weekly standard I guess is an extra little punchline ever Anyway, let's go back to your great work instead of this yes You got so many good ones on this list. Oh, you do have a Lebanon one. I'm sorry. I have not read this when yet So yeah, take us back through this. This was all the aftermath of the assassination of rapid career. Right? So tell us something Yeah, so I mean this one this is another one start off by like obviously a case of violence and things like that and

29:57And this one actually one of the primary kind of sources I've been using for a lot of information is like court testimony and things like that Both for his assassination and also kind of the lead up to it. So they were talking about these different meetings that were happening right before The assassination actually ended up happening They ended up meeting I believe three times at like a hotel and so he would kind of send his Onvoys or people around him to go and talk to him and you could see that he was starting to shift towards the opposition As right around the time that he ended up getting killed in a car bomb And it was three separate meetings and by the second or third one they were sending like more influential guys in a circle like hey Yeah, I'm gonna be joining the opposition here pretty soon And there's one kind of throwaway line in the court document that thought was really really interesting And I hope to dig more into this at some point But they even mentioned hey, I heard from British intelligence like we need to be careful And this is the day before the bombing happened which I found to be super super interesting

30:57And then I started to dive into kind of like who did it as well too because at this time We don't have like a definitive case of who did it at the time there was this guy whose name was I believe a boo Ados who they said had filmed something like Al Jazeera and things like that And it turns out in this court document that I was looking at they were talking about it And this is very recent this might been 2022, 2023 But they were talking about how all the things that they accused him of It was things like oh he drove to the bombing site Well, he didn't have a driver license and things like that Or he had all this stuff on his laptop and they said that could have very easily been planted and things like that So he did end up arresting a few And I want to say they're four that got arrested And then one who actually ended up being charged with other people kind of got sent away and things like that So that was really interesting diving into that too because at the time this a boo Ados story was kind of everywhere

31:57It was apparently on Al Jazeera and things like that and I tried for hours to find this video of the Al Jazeera piece But I was unable to find that and it looks like it's just gone to the ether at this point Yeah, it's been a very interesting story and kind of like what you talked about I mean these were massive massive crowds and Lebanon and The crazy part about it is kind of when I get to the aftermath is I say like hey this is still kind of happened You know none of this really got resolved you know a lot of what they're fighting for is We're still seeing consequences and things that are happening in Lebanon right now you know And kind of in that case too we're seeing how important and independent media and things were a lot of journalists were being assassinated Some of them were also killing car bombs just like Riri so that's been a one where It was just the scale of it was very impressive like you said considering everything that was going around at the time Yeah, well these railings in the war party here were quick to blame as Bala and Assad for it

32:59But I know just a remando wrote about this I'm pretty sure Gareth Porter as well show there was much more likely been Lot nights who did it and there was a dispute over you know the method of the bombing whether it was a truck Or whether it was a bomb hidden under the road or this and that I forget it's been 20 years But that's pretty good for 20 years But yeah, man, I'm sorry. I'm out of time. I have got to I've got to run because I got a show to do in a minute And I got to eat So we're gonna have to cut this short, but that's good because that's just given them just enough to know that they got to go and subscribe to libertarian overwatch on Substack libertarian overwatch dot substack dot com and catch up read up on all of the color coded revolutions there Thank you very much for coming on the show Patrick. Appreciate it. Of course. Thank you so much. Yeah The Scott Horton show is brought to you by the Scott Horton Academy of foreign policy and freedom robbers and robbers brokerage ink

33:59Mundo's artisan coffee Tom Woods Liberty classroom and APS radio news Subscribe in all the usual places and check out my books fools errand enough already And my latest provoked how Washington started the new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine Find all of the above at Scott Horton dot org and I'm serializing the audiobook of provoked at Scott Horton show dot com and patreon dot com slash Scott Horton show Bumpers by Josh length of music intro natural videos by dissident media audio mastering by pod's worth media. See you all next time