25 years after the 9/11 attacks, where does the trial stand?

0:00It's considered this, where every day we go deep on one big news story. Today, the 9-11 trial still stuck in limbo 25 years later. We're going to start by looking back on September 11th itself with the snapshot of the reports and calls that documented how the world and so many lives changed that morning. And just a note that some of the sound might be difficult to hear. We understand that there has been a plane crash on the Southern tip of Manhattan. The world's plane said that power number one is on fire. Oh my goodness. We're looking at a live picture from Washington and there is smoke pouring out of the Pentagon. Two days, 9-47 AM. Hi, baby. I'm a baby. You have to listen to me carefully. I'm on a plane that's been high back. I'm on the plane. I'm calling from the plane. I hope to see your face again, baby. I love you. That last voice was CC Liles, a flight attendant on United Airlines Flight 93.

1:01That night, President George W. Bush addressed the nation. The search is underway for those who are behind these evil acts. I've directed the full resources of our intelligence and law enforcement communities to find those responsible and to bring them to justice. The U.S. response to those attacks was massive. New surveillance programs, new wars. Ultimately, a SEAL team raid that killed Osama bin Laden, the al-Qaeda leader who directed the attacks. But that promise to bring those responsible to justice is still incomplete. Consider this. After decades in detention at Guantanamo Bay, five men accused of planning the 9-11 attacks still have not seen trials. We'll explain why. For MPR, I'm Scott Detro. Looking for love? One New York event promises to find you your perfect match using Palantir, though not affiliated with the actual software company.

2:03They can sue me. I could lose everything, but it would all be worth it if at least two people here have a spark. So no pressure. The facts, myths and dark jokes surrounding Palantir. Listen to a plan of money on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Mike Danforth, executive producer of Weight Weight Don't Tell Me. Here's a great way to get the perks of being an NPR producer without doing any of the work. Join NPR Plus. With NPR Plus, you get extended interviews inside looks at your favorite shows and more. All while supporting NPR and never having to pull an all-nighter. Or if you work on one of the new shows and all morninger. Sign up at plus dot NPR dot org. This message comes from the NPR Wine Club, which is generated over $1.75 million to support NPR. Whether buying a few bottles or joining the club, learn more at NPR Wine Club dot org slash podcast. Must be 21 or older to purchase.

3:08It's considered this from NPR. You'll know NPR Sasha Fyfer as sometimes moonlighting host of this podcast. Ordinarily, she is an investigative correspondent and whatever beats is Guantanamo. Since today is the 25th anniversary of the September 11th attacks, an event that led to the creation of a US military court in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba for a suspected terrorist. Sasha and I wanted to talk about the status of the 9-11 case, which as we've mentioned, still has not gone to trial. No, it has not after all this time that case is still pending. And five men charged with plotting the attacks they have been locked up in Guantanamo for two decades. Correct. All of them are being held in a prison camp within the US naval base in Guantanamo. And the five include the alleged mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Muhammad. They're accused of funding the attacks, training some of the hijackers, helping with travel arrangements and so on. And one fact that I think is lost is that on paper at least the case is still proceeding to trial even after these 25 years.

4:08That is officially what is happening for years and years and years teams of lawyers and translators and investigators and many other types of court related personnel. Having going back and forth to Cuba for hearings, they fly on charter flights and great taxpayer expense. The court record at this point, Scott, is hundreds of thousands of pages long and numerous judges have come and gone over the years. She gets to the most basic question in all of this. Why has there been no trial? Two main reasons basically. I am going to play you some tape from a lawyer who's done a lot of work for Guantanamo prisoners. His name is Michel Parade and he explains the lengthy delay this way. I think the most obvious reason is that they're trying to try them in Guantanamo in military commissions that were designed to achieve speedy justice with very limited rules. And what they have given us instead is interminable delay endless pretrial litigation. The military commissions he refers to the military court was basically invented from scratch after the 9-11 attacks.

5:08This case could have been tried in US federal court and many people think if it had, it would be long over by now. Our federal courts have successfully prosecuted countless terrorism suspects who are now in US prisons. But our government put the military court in Cuba because they said they wanted it to be beyond the reach of US law. Though ultimately the Supreme Court did say the US Constitution does apply to Guantanamo. Correct and that has resulted in all sorts of fights over what evidence can be admitted, what's classified and that gets to the other main reason this case is so hard to try which is torture. Right because before these men were sent to Guantanamo they were subjected to really brutal treatment in secret CIA prisons based off of seas. The black sites they were called. They were in countries like Afghanistan, Romania, Thailand, Morocco. And this was the infamous waterboarding right in addition to that they were they were prevented for sleeping for days they were putting these cramped cough and like boxes and they were physically slammed against walls right yes mock burials aggressive cavity searches in fact one of the defendants has been declared mentally incompetent to stand trial and his lawyers say that's due to him having been tortured.

6:16The US was trying to punish them and it was also trying to get information out of them. There is still a debate as you know about how effective that torture was at getting any valuable intelligence but once you torture someone you make it very difficult to successfully prosecute them. I want to play a piece of audio from a live taping this week of NPR's National Security Podcasts sources and methods hosted of course by our colleague Mary Louise Kelly. I attended that taping and a panel of national security experts reminded the crowd how terrified the United States was right after the September 11th attacks. We thought more attacks were coming maybe nuclear attacks so as one of the panelists put it the gloves did come off. Here's a different panelist Stephen Hadley he's a former advisor to President George W. Bush. We knew at the time that we were going to authorize and do things and establish programs that when the crisis of the moment and the concern of the moment had died down the American people may be uncomfortable with them. We knew that was a possibility but we thought these were measures we had to do to get on top of the threat to prevent the country from being attacked again.

7:24And I think that was the right trade off. And that trade off right or wrong has had consequences as an example if a confession is coerced it cannot be used as evidence and so far in the 9-11 case two confessions have been thrown out by a judge because they were given under dress and that weakens the prostitution's case. This next tape is from a Guantanamo defense attorney named Akka Pradhan. You can either take people and torture them and hopefully you don't do that because it's illegal or you can have a fair trial for them. You can't do both. Given all of this what are the prosecutor's current plans for moving forward without those confessions. The government says it has other evidence like telephone intercepts but two years ago prosecutors said settling the 9-11 case was a better option than continuing to try to proceed to trial. Those prosecutors actually agreed to plead deals with the defendants that would let them avoid the death penalty in exchange for pleading guilty to murdering nearly 3000 people. And then this was such a shocking twist those plea deals were retracted.

8:24Yes they were the defense secretary at the time Lloyd Austin rescinded them. I remember that because I was interviewing a family member of somebody who died in 9-11 about that moment and he talked about how from his perspective the case looked like it was finally going to be resolved. There was suddenly going to be some legal closure and then suddenly it was back to what he called the land of uncertainty. And so many 9-11 family members feel that way they are worn out by how long this has dragged on and by whiplash decisions like the plea deals being reversed. And by the way the plea deal situation has been appealed to the Supreme Court although the court hasn't decided yet whether to hear the case. One family member I've interviewed a lot is Colleen Kelly she lost her brother in the World Trade Center collapse and this is what Colleen recently told me. You know I'm hired of the peaks and valleys so I just kind of roll along with it and see how it plays out. And there's so much that isn't appeals right now but these appeal decisions generally take years not months so we're stuck yet again.

9:26And many attorneys I've interviewed believe settling this case is the only realistic way to end it especially after Colleen shake Muhammad's confession was tossed out just last month. Here is a former government attorney named Ian Moss who's worked on Guantanamo issues for years. That should tell us something right that the best evidence that the government believes it has is no longer available as clear agreements is the way out of that. Sasha when people think Guantanamo Bay I think they think of these specific defendants they're not the only ones there though right remind us who else is there right at its height. Guantanamo had almost 800 prisoners now it's down to 15 men of those seven or facing charges including the September 11th defendants to have been convicted the other six are known as forever prisoners they've been held there for years without any charges filed against them. Half of the forever prisoners are cleared for release and still aren't being let go and that lawyer we just heard from Ian Moss finds that outrageous. Is this who we are that we just continue to hold six men without charge or trial indefinitely what are we doing to address that piece of it he told me nothing seems to be happening within the government to address that because the Trump administration doesn't seem interested in letting those men go now previous administrations didn't negotiate with other countries to take prisoners at get mo cleared for release but there's no sign that those negotiations are happening now so the men are stuck there.

10:53Is there on paper at least a trial date for this 9-11 case yes there was a date set by a Guantanamo judge just last month it's June 2028 but that could easily get delayed again especially with so many legal issues still pending but if it does happen I hope to be there covering it. That is NPR Sasha fight for my co-host this week and also on NPR correspondent covering Guantanamo Sasha thank you so much you're welcome. This episode was produced by Connor Donovan Michelle Aslam and Karen Samora with audio engineering by Hannah Glovna our director is Jonas Adams it was edited by Sarah handle and Tim Beat Hermius our interim executive producer is Courtney Dornick before we go a quick thank you to our consider this plus listeners who support the show your contribution makes it possible for NPR journalists all around the world to do their jobs supporters also get to hear every episode and even less time with no sponsor messages you can learn more at the plus dot NPR dot org it's consider this from NPR I'm Scott Dattro.

11:59I haven't seen my son since 2012 this is Deborah Tice the disappearance of her son Austin is one of the biggest missing person cases in the world. What do you want from me I should sell the mystery I know that my son is somewhere alive. Listen to where is Austin Tice from NPR's embedded and BBC radio for on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi there I'm Brittany loose and not to brag but I host a really fabulous podcast it's called it's been a minute I love making it and I think you love listening to it over the last year hundreds of thousands of listeners have been tuning in and I got to say if you haven't yet you're missing out listen to the it's been a minute podcast from NPR today. We are today.