23. What If Refuge Was a Verb? (with Lisa Cuss)

What if refuge was something you practiced?

In this conversation, John Ortberg talks with therapist and trauma specialist Lisa Cuss about anxiety, church hurt, attachment theory, the nervous system, and Psalm 31.

Lisa shares how reading the Psalms through the lens of the nervous system helped her understand David's prayers in a completely new way. His cries of fear, confusion, and desperation suddenly felt deeply human and surprisingly familiar.

This episode explores:
- Trauma and attachment theory
- Church hurt and emotional healing
- Psalm 31 and the image of refuge
- Why God is called a fortress
- Right-sizing reality through prayer
- Making refuge an active spiritual practice

Featuring reflections on:
- David's prayers
- The nervous system
- Martin Luther
- A Mighty Fortress Is Our God

#Psalm31 #JohnOrtberg #LisaCuss #Prayer #Trauma #AttachmentTheory #SpiritualFormation #ChristianFaith #Anxiety #Psalms


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Music Credits:
Vikersund by RØRE - MB01V0UASAACPKE
Alta by RØRE - MB01IWZVJASGKHF


00:00 Introduction & Meet Lisa Cuss
00:30 Church Hurt, Conflict & Anxiety
01:15 Living Between Panic & Shutdown
02:29 Reading the Psalms Through the Nervous System
03:23 David's Emotional Honesty
04:00 Naming the Amygdala Hijack
04:47 Psalm 31: Refuge & Fortress
05:56 What Refuge Really Means
06:27 Right-Sizing Reality
07:02 Refuge as a Spiritual Practice
07:27 What If Refuge Became a Verb?
08:25 Understanding Fortress
08:42 Protection While Under Attack
09:07 The Battles Inside Us
09:56 Facing Hard Things With God
10:27 Martin Luther & A Mighty Fortress
11:20 Go Refuge